 Hello, welcome to Quok Talk. I'm Crystal, this Tuesday morning. Let me just paint a scenario for what we're going to get into today. So you and your husband kind of maybe haven't had sex for a little while, and you're in the mood, and things are right this time. Things are right, and you've got the lights dimmed, you're romantic, you've got the nice new lingerie on, and you're hot and heavy and getting into it, and you're like really busting out and you can't stop, but the door opens, and your two-year-old comes in good light. What do you do? Gosh, are we going to talk about parenting and sex? Welcome us. Welcome, welcome. Join us right now. I've got the brilliant Dr. Alana Coffee here. Hi, Alana. Hi. Thank you for coming. Sure. So from the Hawaii Psychology Collective, I know you have a group of fantastic and talented therapists, but what is your specialty, and why do you think this topic is so relevant? My specialty started out with children, and then I sort of progressed into working with parents and doing family and couples work, and I would say that's probably 60% of the work that I do is a whole family in some configuration, and this is a big topic that the parents come in with. They are somewhat neglecting that part of their lives, so they come in and talk about it in therapy. They come together? No, sometimes they come one at a time, and I'm like, you need to get the other half in here, but you know, and sometimes they come in with such an issue that is so irrelevant to the actual problem. They have to meander to the actual issue. It's been a lot of shame and embarrassment. Yeah, sure. I mean, you said you talked to a lot of different people and hearing their stories. Is there some kind of a common thread, though, with these parenting sex lives? So the men will say that marriage is like something like an anti-sex. As soon as you get married, you don't have sex anymore. They're so pessimistic, those guys. And the women for them, it's the kids, I mean, like, you know, nursing and changing diapers are very not sexy, so, I mean, the first six years are a challenge, I would say, the most couples, and there are those exceptions, so I don't want to generalize too much. There's some people that seem to me manage, but... There are always exceptions, right? Yeah. But let's go start from the beginning for people who are new parents, you know, coming home after a deflated body and swelling boobs and sleepless nights, something that's just been so foreign, you know, from before when you were a queen. Oh, totally. Right? Yeah. I mean, just what does that do to you mentally before you even get to the typical... Physiologically, right? Yeah. The changes that happen in women, chemical and structural, I mean, like, I'll never forget, my two-year-old did a Xerber on my stomach, that's when you blow the tummy in, it makes sort of like a... Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm like, that is so deep. Talk about deflating. I'm like, don't do that anymore. And then there's just a lot of changes that happen. And we women, being able to reconcile the changes in our body and still feeling really sexy and pretty with those changes. Yeah, it's hard. I remember my first birth, and just getting up from a toilet and seeing this extra flappy skin, it's like, what the heck? Can we talk about this on TV? Yeah, please. I mean, it is graphic, but it's real and in your face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And men should know that it's not our choice to have this kind of body. And it's like, wow. Well, we do that so they can have their children. Yeah. Thank you. No complaining, yeah. Yeah. So I discovered the control top thong at that point. Yeah, they make them, yeah. Well, you know, I was in Hong Kong at the time, and they tell us to buy those big wrap things to kind of shrink your stomach down earlier. Oh, wow. So you have this kind of a girdly thing that brings it in faster. Well, so I had twins, and they combined for 15 pounds. They were just these enormous children. They were C-section, and I think the C-section is a different type of recovery even, right? Because then the stomach muscles are compromised. It's like split open, isn't it? It is split open. So I'm lobbying right now for some sort of liposuction or some such thing because there's not enough sit-ups that I can do. Right. Remember, I mean, you have to like bring in the muscles. Oh, my gosh. Oh, the Pilates. Yeah. You know, physical aspects. Right. That's one of them. I'm one of them many, many. And we didn't even talk about the sore nipples, you know. Oh, wow. Yeah, that. We can really talk about that. Yeah. So there's this like cream that you put on there to prevent the cracking. What's that? New Zealand kind of love. Yeah, yeah. You know, I repressed a lot of this because it was traumatizing at the time. Did you? Yeah, I nursed. How do you nurse twins? Do you do it at the same time? So it's the sort of double football. Their heads here, their bodies there. A few times you do that simultaneously. Just to shut them up and give them a little bit of nourishment at the same time. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. Do you remember when you felt sexy again after having birth? Well, yesterday. No, no, no. 18 years later. We're still looking. But no, I don't remember that. It was probably all a blur. And so the adults have different types of libidos. I think women and men have different libidos. Sure. And we're not necessarily always in sync. Yeah, of course. So there's this period of time when you're chasing him around. Like, you know, I've got a man. I'm ready. He's running, right? And there's other times when he's doing the chasing. So, you know, it's definitely much easier in the last third of my children's lives since they were 12. Okay, 18 years. When they don't come in the room in the middle of the night. Oh, my gosh. These people, they'll follow you into the bathroom. They have no boundaries. Mom, mom, mom. Right. So that's a particular, you know, phobia is having them walk in on. Who hasn't? Honestly, which parent has not had a kid come in the room during sex? I don't. And they just feel traumatized. They will tell you. The kids are traumatized. It looks very, it looks aggressive to them. I mean, you know, they're, why are you doing that aggressive act to my mother? So they're actually, it's really scary for them. Sometimes they're traumatized. And they might come in and actually try to intervene and break it up. And oh, my gosh, what are you doing to my mom? Oh, gosh. Yeah, yeah. So where does that sex ed come in on those conversations then? Like, how would it come? Can you? Well, we chose, you know, this depends on the family. Everybody has their values. But we are educators and psychologists and social work. So we felt it really important to tell our children very early what the deal was. So over breakfast, you guys would be talking about when you're ovulating. Well, actually it was after the movie Grease and our son said, mom, so what is a 50 cent insurance policy? And then my husband's like, you know, good time. Let's tell them what a condom is or prophylactic. And it was like seven or eight years old. Right. Probably shouldn't have been watching Grease anyway. But then we had the whole story. What is a condom? And that, you know, it's a barrier method. Why do you need a barrier method? Well, it covers the penis. Well, why do you need to cover your penis? It just went on from there. But it gave us a vehicle to give them very factual scientific information. Right. And from there they elaborated greatly, but at least they had those basics and they're about eight. I think that's really important. Did you see the movie Captain Fantastic? I did not. Well, if you ever have a chance to get it, I highly recommend that to anyone out there. But there's this brilliant scene where the father, the little, the one of the youngest kids goes, he heard the sister talking about intercourse from a book. What's intercourse, daddy? She says, well, you know, when the husband, I mean the man sticks the penis into the vagina. What's a vagina? Well, it's where it's a woman's part down there. I don't know what he said. But then she says, isn't that where you pee? Says, well, that's the urethra. It's right next to it. So he's really adamant on giving it all out. Right. Where the sister was appalled by this conversation. Oh, my children were appalled too. They're like, that's disgusting. I'm never going to do that. Right. That's normal. Ew, mom. I can't believe that. Yeah. You can't even talk about it. We can't talk about it. Even till today, actually they'll cringe. If I like wink at my husband, they're like, oh my God, don't do that. Yeah. Well, okay, that's another thing though. How you show affection in front of kids. That will greatly influence how they will interact with their partners. Right? So we try to be very respectful and nonviolent to each other. Yeah. So, you know, there's definitely, I think I'm probably more physical than Jerry. So, you know, I just show my affection very physically. And that's just about anyone. Yeah. You know, typically hugging and kissing people, and within vicinity, wait until after the show. But I'm just saying, you know, we're very tactile as a family. It will hug me and hug me in the elevator. I didn't know who you were. But as soon as I knew. Okay. But we're very tactile with that expression. Right, right. And so do you see that influencing them and how they... Yeah. So, plus, I mean, as local children, I mean, they were born and raised here, right? One of the things that I greatly appreciate about that physical affection is not sexual affection. It is just, it's physical and it's respectful. So they'll walk into our room and kiss all the aunties or uncles. Like there's some sort of physical connection. Right, yeah. Yeah, it's very normal for us. It is nice. Yeah, it is. Well, that's an interesting aspect, though, is how much culture plays in your sexual relationship and how you define those boundaries between you and your kids. Because in Asia, you know, you don't even strip naked. God forbid you show any part of your body to your kids. You don't shower, you know. So in the Western society, it's much more open. And so people are actually more comfortable with their bodies. Yes. And if they come in to see you in the shower, it's not a big deal. Right, right. No, it is not a big deal in our house. I probably am about the most clothed person. But even then, I mean, people are just little nymphs walking around our house. It's just comfortable about it. Right. And I, yeah, I don't know. We're just kind of comfortable. Right. And it should be. It's a natural thing. So going back to sex with the kids around the house, there's got to be some ways. So we try to send them away. I mean, that's the most fun. Yeah. You know, like if my kids are camping or on a trip, don't come over, because I'm finally gaining some time with Jerry. And we have this one friend, a couple of friends, and they would have us babysit the children and they would go away and they would come back at 10 o'clock and pick them up. I mean, like, and that's when their kids are very little. They were like two and three years old. Right. They needed to just have these sort of, well, basically sex dates. Right. I mean, they would have to schedule it, make time for it. And that really is my recommendation to people like, be deliberate. Do not expect these things to happen casually or spontaneously. Like they once did when we were 20. No, it does not. So there's some planning that goes involved. Okay. But this planning, doesn't that kind of take away the whole feel of the moment? It can, unless you're playful with that even. I mean, then we introduce romance a little bit back to it. Right. And it might feel contrived, but it's also very playful and fun. And as adults, we get to have that too. So, and then when people are in that moment, they reintroduce that magic between them and that chemistry. But the planning of it can be fun too. Well, that's the thing though. See, you know, like in my head, I always think, okay, this is going to be the romantic weekend. I'm going to do this and that. It's all in the head. It's so great. And then when the actual time comes, I'm exhausted from doing all the stuff with the kids. I don't want to put on that little piece of laundry because I feel stupid because I'm so comfortable in my t-shirt. Right. And nothing goes forever like what you wanted to do. No, it doesn't. It never comes out that way. But I do definitely think that people should plan for these things, but our idea of romance and sexy has changed. So the garters that once were have given away to tube socks, you know, and it's like, gotta just be sexy, you know. Okay, yeah. Right. Whatever works for you. I have this one couple that I know. There's special panties that she puts on. So she still wears t-shirt, but a bottle of t-shirt with the cold and everything. And it's the panties that fit. Was it edible or something? No, they're just the same ones every time. The only time she wears them is when it's sort of like raised a red lantern. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like that. Oh, that's kind of cool. I have a friend who, which he does, is she will pick out different sets of lingerie and she'll take photos of it on her phone. And when her husband's at work, he'll give him a choice of which one he wants that night. That's pretty nice. To look forward to. That's quite cute, isn't it? That's so sweet. Yeah. So when you say playful, I thought of that. So there are lots of ideas we can think of to plan and to present opportunities. So we need to make that effort. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk a little bit more and, you know, insight that little creativity behind our dormant minds and bring out that sexuality. This is Steve Katz. I'm a marriage and family therapist and I do shrink wrap, which is now going to every other week all during the summer and maybe forever after. Take care of your mental health this summer. Have a good time. Do what's fun and take good care of yourself. Bye-bye. Aloha. My name is Danelia, D-A-N-E-L-I-A. And I'm the other half of the duo, John Newman. Welcome. We are co-hosts of a show called Keys to Success, which is live on the Think Tech Live Network series, weekly on Thursdays at 11 a.m. We're looking forward to seeing you then. Aloha. Aloha. I'm Chantel Seville, host of the Savvy Chick Show on Think Tech, Hawaii. And I'm going on tour. I'm taking you around the world. We're going to Canada. And then we're going to, well, we're in America. Then we're going to San Francisco. So keep staying tuned. 11 a.m. every Wednesday on the Savvy Chick Show. We'll see you next time. Yeah, we'll come back. Back on clock talk and I'm talking to Dr. online coffee about parenting and sex and how you deal with those awkward situations when you're hot and heavy, when you do, and you're lucky enough to get some, and they walk in. Of course it's always like that, right? It's always like that. They never walk in when you're like... Watching television, running your own business. Exactly. So I was thinking of one occasion where I was, well, suggesting some things to my mate and trying to explain to him why it would be a really good idea if he gave in. And I was no longer visual to the child that came into the room that stood there and again have a conversation with said father about some such thing. And so I had to just be very, very still. So this child went away. And we're like put a key and chocolate. So we're very talky. It kind of took a long time. I'm like, shut that kid up. He sent him on the... Get the hell out of here. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, little things like that. And there must be some funny little moments, right? I mean, when you have to all of a sudden hold in. It's like a breath and... Just hold on. But it is hard to continue afterwards too when you have that break, right? Depends on where you are in a situation. Depends, it depends. And I think, you know, some of the couples, I ask them, like, what's a normal frequency? Right. And this difference generationally. Well, I think, so the older generation, like maybe our parents, you know, are in their 60s, 70s. For them, they weren't really confused about this. They felt like there were boundaries between parents and kids. And the kids stayed, did not come in their room. Right. Or they not before coming in their room. Yeah. And it was, you know, the couple centric and the children followed the couple. Right. But then my generation came about. Over the doors. And really turned it upside down. Yeah. And it was child-centered. Right. And children first. And we don't matter. And I think that trend had gone too far. Yeah. It's actually maybe kind of damaged some relationships. Absolutely. But we're so involved in what's happening with the children. We forget our mate. Oh, big time. Yeah. So coming, you know, that pendulum swinging back to center is actually really good. So you have to, you suggest creating boundaries and really sticking to it and not letting, you know, your 10-year-old sleep in your bed still. Oh, wow. 13 years old. Really? Yeah. It's really something. I kind of got into a little bit of a debate with that mom. And it was like, that's just the way I'm doing it. And I'm like, whoa, when you think developmentally what's happening with a child that's 10 to 12, 13, and this was a male child, you know, that's not good for either development. Right. I don't know if you can think back or remember when you were a kid, did you ever walk into your parents or did you ever have that situation when you knew something was going on? So I walked in on my girlfriend's parents. What? Yeah. And we were just, and she and I were do-do-do-do-do-do. And I was like, and I, you know, I'm curious. That's why I'm a psychologist. I'm like, what's happening here? By the time I actually... How old were you? I was about five. Oh, that young. Yeah, I was very young. So I just, but what I saw, it looked very loving. It wasn't scary or anything. Okay. And I wasn't like edged out or anything. I was just like, oh, that's interesting. Was it all out in the open? Like they were naked. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. Okay. What, blind for a couple hours? No, no, no. Too much. Yeah, but I just, I was not, it was not gross to me. I remember just thinking, oh, that's interesting. But that's interesting that you remember that so vividly. Oh, very vividly. And did you go home and tell your mom? No. I knew it was taboo. And because I didn't want my friend to be scolded or that her parents would be scolded. Right. So I knew that, like we know that there's certain levels of taboo and I knew that. I should not tell what I saw. Right. But it's interesting when a kid does know what's going on next door is what goes through their head. And do you even follow on that conversation? So we painted our bedroom doors red. Oh my God. So that was humor in our house. You know, a lot of humor. So it's like these doors are closed for a reason, which, you know, they're mostly always open to them. So we don't have the kind of bedroom that you can't just come in unless those doors are closed. And they're like. It's like putting a tie on the door. Yeah, it is. And it's because I have sons. I think they actually really respectful of that space because they just grossed out. Right. We don't want to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right. So. Well, but, you know, just in different phases too. I mean, are there developmental phases where parents have to reassess how they kind of keep, you know, obviously the older you are, the fire kind of dims out after a while, after you've been married. How do you keep that going even if they're not coming in the room? It's not an excuse anymore. Right. Right. Having a really good relationship with your partner actually matters because what happens later on, let's talk about men for a minute. Okay. We used to think that they would have sex, no matter what, under what condition, they would just go for it. And that's not necessarily so. They get hurt. They get discouraged. They get tired. There's a lot of pressure on adults to, I don't know, pay the rent, the mortgage, do that. Yeah, sure. So because they have so much external pressure when they come home or when we're with each other, the more respectful and loving it can be the better. But when the men are tired or angry or upset, they actually withhold sex in a way that's really surprising to women. Women are used to being able to get at that. And so maintaining a healthy relationship is actually really good for a sex life. So in that kind of situation, do you suggest the women to be a little more proactive in softening those edges or to just let it, you know, scan out? No. Combination. Sometimes they need space. But we can be very demanding in our task. Yeah. Because when we are threatened or insecure or, you know, we have the same pressures like, you know, where's the money? Where's the security? Where's this? Why do you do your share of the chores? So we tend to press, press, press, press. Yeah. And then they withdraw, withdraw. And then that stops happening. And then the bedroom. Yep. It transfers over. Yeah. It goes down. So, you know, I never thought I would be saying this, but to a certain extent, we, females can, we should soften a little bit. Yeah. You know, I agree. And I can't, I can't find myself doing it either. I know that's the thing I should do. And it's really hard. Totally. It's so hard. I find myself just writing it down. I'm like, okay, I'm going to write this down. I'm going to say it tomorrow morning or something. Right. Because we're running households. We're actually very busy today in 2016. There's a lot on our plate collectively. We raise children. We raise households. But we must keep that piece together. And another little thing I have to, I just really wanted to spend some time with, and that's the, the issue of work, workplace friendships and romances, because we get so close to the people we work with. Right. And to be cautious of those kinds of relationships, because our work is such a strong part of our identity and our narrative and our personality. And sometimes we're really vibing with a person at work. Right. And we just kind of be aware of that. Yeah. I kind of know where you're going with that. But sometimes, you know, it's that energy. And it's also because it's not your family that things get a little more exciting, even if it's just harmless flirting. Right. So, you know, in these kind of potentially dangerous kind of situations, would you suggest more conversations about work when they come home or, you know, it's so hard not to talk about the kids when you get home. Right. And it's really becomes very boring. Right. Well, I think that talking about our work is really important with our spouse. Yeah. Because these are the goodies that we bring home to the nest. It's like this interesting thing happen. And when I say talk about it, I don't mean grumble about it. Right. So we talk about it. We share our exciting projects and things that we do with each other and make time for each other and invite one another into the other's world, as opposed to keeping it really isolated and separate. But for your case, both of you are therapists. So do you actually share cases and actually try to... Is that a little too... It's just too much. Yeah. Too much. There are cases that we share, so we'll get consent. Even then, even though we're who we are, we still get consent from our people to talk about it. Right. But what we will do is we ask for advice. You know, like if this is a situation, what would you do? And I'm typically really surprised by my husband because what he says to do for his clients is not necessarily what either of us do at home. You know, we're still human beings. Right. And we do all the things we tell you not to do as our clients are like, please don't do that. Well, do you, I mean, do you have that issue being, you know, over-analyzing everything, just habit of your work, that when you go home you kind of self-critic too much? Jerry at Psychoanalyses me more than I do him. Do you hate it when he does that? Yes. I'm like, stop Junior for aiding me. But I think he would probably disagree. But what I value is his words. He has great communication skills as a result of the work we do. That doesn't mean that we are, you know, flawless. We definitely have. But sometimes you need to hear these things, right? Sometimes you need to hear from someone what you're not doing or what it would be nice to be doing. Yeah, it's always shocking. It's like, really, you're giving me feedback. Are you sure? I want examples. Well, you know, also because when you're dating and courting, guys will make so much effort to communicate with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or they overlook things. Or like, that doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then later they're like, that matters. That patterns out, right. So, how do you keep the fire burning in that way then? I mean, you know, guys aren't good for words. Not everybody's like your husband. Good for words, yeah. You know, what are some tips or tricks to kind of keep things going, assuming that your relationship is healthy? Yeah, right. So first, get that relationship healthy. Yeah. I mean, that's counselor, of course, saying, please take care of that part, the interest part. Second, make time. Make the effort. Make the time. And remember the platinum rule, which is very different than the golden rule. So the golden rule is I treat you in the way that you want to be treated, right? So it would be like I treat you the way I would want to be treated. The platinum rule is I treat you in the way that you would prefer to be treated, not based on what I would like. So if I know that you're someone that likes flowers, but I'm someone that likes foot massages, I should not give you a foot massage, right? You would not appreciate it. Right. And then I would be feeling taken for granted or not appreciated because you didn't go, ooh, a foot massage. Right. But to me, a foot massage is the most important thing. So please be mindful of what each other prefers in all ways, and not just sexual ways, but it's not what you want, but what the other wants. And then if you look to each other, your needs will be met, actually. That's a very good point. Yeah. And you can translate that into parenting, your kids too, in terms of how they should be looking at how you deal with other people. Right. It's not just what you want. Right, right. And I think that there's this great image of the spoons too long, and the person cannot get it in the soup into their mouth because the spoon's too long. The spoon is, and they're in a circle, and everybody has this really too long spoon, and they just feed each other, and that way everybody gets their needs met. Huh. Yeah. So it's kind of a... That's an interesting analogy. Well, I'm thinking back to that film that I highly recommended, Captain Fantastic, is there a scene when the father sends off his son, his teenage son, he's going to be leaving, he just graduated, and he's going to go to, I don't know, Africa to roam around the world for a little while, and his tip for women, you know, he's looking at him, and he says, when you make love to a woman, remember to listen to her. It's just such a beautiful advice from a father. Wow, that is. I mean, nobody... Okay. Forget the parent-child thing. Nobody really listens to each other anymore. Yeah, yeah. And not just listen to their words. There's so much happening physiologically. So this is a part where the boys are 18, and we do have these conversations, and so the bigger picture was, please be respectful to your partners. Right. Just always be really respectful to your partners. Okay, Mom. I'm like, oh gosh, I should give more detail, you know. So some of that is listen, make sure their body is healthy, make sure they're comfortable and feeling safe. It's a very difficult conversation to prep your child to possibly be having sex with someone. But since we know statistically they're going to, making sure that they're safe emotionally and physically is really important. Wow. So there's never too... Well, I guess there's a time when you know it's right to have that conversation, but a very important one. And then they come and go, so what about this? And they want to give you these details. I'm like, that's the time I'm just like, go ask your father. Yeah. I'm like, oh, use that line. Go ask your dad. Yeah, yeah. I love it though, but that's why you balance everything with a healthy couple. Alana, I mean, there are so many things we could talk about, but I'm really glad we opened up a lot of great tips and issues about parenting. But I want to talk about the razor roof. Now that's coming up. Right. It has nothing to do with having sex, but you can have sex after the show. But tell us a little bit about this. Okay, so razor roof is the Arts at Mark's garage. It's their 15th year of providing space in downtown Honolulu for visual artists, performance artists. It is an amazing jewel downtown. And this is their biggest fundraiser they've ever had. And it's going to be on the roof of downtown Honolulu, which is also very gorgeous. It's a Saturday night, November 19th. And the tickets are all included food, music. We've got some great speakers. Enos is coming. And Tamane, do you know Tamane? No, I didn't know her. Oh my gosh, she's so talented. Yeah, okay. And she'll be there that night. I mean, we just have some really great talent. That's great. Art will be for sale. And it's one of my pet projects, which is another thing that happens for couples. It's when we get established, and those kids are kind of raised already, we all start taking more activity in the community. Right. Being part of that community and bringing that energy and all of that enthusiasm back home. Absolutely. So this is one of my pet projects. Well, good luck. Congratulations on that. And that healthy energy translates to your energy here and probably into the bedroom. So again, remember, enjoy your partner. Be nice to them and enjoy sex. And forget about the kids. They'll grow up and get out of there eventually.