 Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I saw Pat Steadman in both of those. I want to welcome you Pat tonight. How you doing? I'm doing great Tony. It's good to be back on. Yeah, I'm glad you're here tonight. A couple real quick things I want to welcome everybody from 21 Studios. You might not know me but I'm sure a lot of you guys know Pat Steadman, but I want to thank Anthony Johnson for letting us hijack 21 Studios tonight. So I hope we have a lot of new faces. The couple things I want to tell people who are new to my show It's called reality check and tonight is called the truth about dating and feminism and how that ties in and how it affects Dating it affects marriages feminism affects a lot of things. So that's kind of the topic tonight also, I want to congratulate Anthony Johnson and 21 Studios for 400,000 subs tonight and Congratulations Anthony. Good job. Keep it going. Also, you guys get your tickets for 21 convention. Also, I have a coupon code It's Tony 150. That's Tony 150 punch it in you get a hundred and fifty dollars off your off your ticket So remember that Tony 150 when you get your ticket Again, I want to introduce you to my channel if you're new here. We just have some good conversations We talk about a lot of different things Pat is a regular here We've been doing this probably me and Pat probably for almost a year now about every other I'd say by monthly I would say it is but every six eight weeks. I think we're over a year. I think we're yeah, you know I think our initial interview was fall of 2020. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So but always a great time again I want to welcome I want to welcome all the new people from from 21 Studios, man And one thing I do is I do open up the the I put a live link so you can come on and ask questions So be aware of that. So keep your questions ready so you can come on the live panel. You can chat with us So let's get right into it Pat Let me Let me look at all the comments here. We've got a lot here. Let me just welcome people Mohammed Selfmade Woody Johnson uncle guns, of course Francisco Yeah, man. Good to see you. Hopefully we get some new faces if if you don't know me or not familiar with my channel I'm sure you guys are familiar with 21 Studios. Go ahead and speak up say hi And again, we'll get to a point where we can ask questions Back Bell. Good to see you Jared Mesa. Good to see you man. Austin. Good to see you So let's get right into it. It is the truth about dating and feminism So let's talk about feminism and what is feminism now? I've done some research. I'm not a big scholar on feminism I do know that Feminism is not being feminine. We'll just we'll start out like that But from from what I understand there's two kind of schools of thoughts on feminism There are schools of thought to wait just that's people say that it just started back in the early 20th century but there's also people that say that there's three waves of feminism and The first wave would be the early 20th century the second wave would be in the really 60s to 70s and then the third wave which would be considered from now and the past few decades so that's kind of our take on the feminist movement and I guess we're gonna dive right into it past so I'm gonna ask you the big question. What is a feminist? Well, I think in the modern context a feminist is a communist Not to get a little bit bombastic off the off the bat, but Whatever feminism was and we can talk about that we can talk about its evolution the We're we're in a post Post-feminist society I would say like They have all these these arguments about fighting the patriarchy But you know, this is the reason that they still exist and that people still think feminism matters and you should be a feminist But I mean the the battle's already been essentially one I mean what what further advantage would the feminists gain at this point? It would be what putting us in the camps and There are actually some feminists who advocate for that to put men at the camps and use the law who, you know They that they want to for breeding purposes I'm saying this stuff in kind of a tongue-in-cheek way because we know it's not going to get to that point, but we are in a I would say post-feminist liberation Society and now it's not about liberation. It's about conquest and And that's why we have Our community which is a reaction to it for better or for worse, but it's a reaction to Where we're at right now? I Think if you want to go and use the terminology of first second and third wave feminism You can say that first wave feminism was really simply just the right to vote. It was women's suffrage. Yeah, and I Understand the arguments against that I kind of think it's a moot point. I think it's kind of larpy To complain about women's suffrage just because it's not going to go away The only the only way that anybody could get rid of women's suffrage is if we actually suffered a Complete and total societal collapse where there was no state and We were basically left in the small communities and communities had to reestablish some localized law and order That's the only way you get rid of women's suffrage. So I would say let's not Try to hope for a situation where we get women's suffrage because and also I don't think it would it really matters Because the reality is and you can look at this even by today's data Married women vote in 90% lockstep with their husbands So it didn't really matter that much anyway because if you were in a marriage They were they were going to go the same direction. It's really only been divergent with single women Okay, let me let me pause you real quick. Sure, but though now you say The the woman is following the man. Is it possible that because of feminism? It's the other way where the man is following the woman even though they're voting for the same thing You see what I'm saying It's a good point. It's a good point. Um, and I think it's certainly happened It certainly has happened in in today's Society that you're going to see marriages in that they're both liberal, but they're both liberal because of the fact that You know, the woman's liberal and the guy kind of goes along with it What I've found is that most of those guys though if they are conservative at heart That they tend just to not talk about their opinion And then, you know, they get their little Active disobedience in the in the ballot box by themselves and and that was indicated By a lot of stuff that happened with trump Because you saw that pattern break a bit that you had a lot more Married women voting for not voting having lockstep with their husbands With trump in 2016. So I do think that while that is a phenomenon a lot of it is kind of Guys will sneakily go around it The other thing I would say Is that sometimes that even goes the opposite direction? Believe it or not. There are a lot of very weak liberal guys With very conservative wives and now those relationships don't usually work In the long term And by the way, that's no guarantee that the woman Was stable in the relationship just because she was conservative. There's a lot of that shit conservative women But anyway, that's that's but I would say by and large That hasn't been as much of an issue because Men still tend to and I've looked at a lot of these Like even lefty dynamics and while there may be like more of a neurotic woman there Who's kind of pushing for stuff pushing for stuff pushing There's usually most couples are usually in lockstep with each other so You know, there's a lot of guys who are liberal based on their own conscience and it's not just because of women so Anyway That was the big thing with first wave feminism though is women's suffrage And I also just want to make one last point on that which is We haven't really seen the kind of issues that we're looking at today with uh You know liberal versus conservative In the past in the past you didn't see any sort of real national issue because The real issue with liberal conservative today is that Um The left is and also aspects of the right but the left is is essentially Under like a brainwashing Right and so it's I think that the phenomenon is very Very different because it's not just like standard politics like in the past standard politics women didn't There there was not this sort of Um hysterics that came from married women It was single women in the 60s and 70s who then started to push for after they got the right to vote They then started to push for um The ability to to work and to work in In basically an equal capacity to men now. So second wave feminism is I think sort of Equilibrium um So when you look at second wave feminism what you're essentially looking at is This is where men and women presumably we're supposed to have just equal rights across society And no preferential treatment to one or the other And I think if we're being honest here a lot of people Are pretty much okay with second wave feminism um because People are I think fair and I think you can understand like one of the things with second wave feminism is It just because A woman maybe should have the right To work in an equal capacity as a man It doesn't mean that she needs to do exactly what a man does And I think that was not initially Uh at odds with people it was more just if a woman wanted to go through the career ladder Was she going to be treated differently because she was a woman and look for being honest She was treated differently that that's the reality people I mean people can complain about how it's been inverted at this point But that was a reality back then Um now their big thing is trying to push the top of the corporate ladder But they're really really running into the resistance of biology, which is that most women Simply do not want to work as hard as men to get to those high level positions They don't want to give up the sacrifices in their personal life. And so It's tough to find women who are going to inhabit the c-suite Because most just don't want to deal with that stuff So now we have third wave feminism, which uh, you can argue that the first two were wolves and you know, sheep's clothing And I think that there was certainly You know some of the early suffragettes. I think did hate men And probably were at heart third waivers maybe but Most of the women who ended up agreeing with these things or who and actually let's be honest here Women's suffrage is passed by men So because they're the ones who had the right to vote So men obviously thought it was appropriate at the time and Men by and large were pretty okay with with second wave feminism Third wave nobody really likes Um, it's being shoved down really everybody's throat even most women don't like third wave feminism because They don't They don't many of them when they when you get past the loaded terminology of like feminists And I actually think That that was more of a relevant thing five years ago like five years ago if you talked about this kind of stuff Women would be like well I don't agree with that stuff But i'm a feminist But those women who are who are being reasonable about it and had sort of a semantic confusion About what the term feminist meant I have not seen those women identify with feminists anymore Most of those women have been like get me the fuck away from that term and some of them actually I was going to say that that a lot of women I think will try to identify as a feminist but aren't It's kind of almost like being in the club kind of thing Yeah, and in my contention is that it's way less of a factor than before I don't think people Really want to be associated With those groups I know a lot of people here probably Disagree and they see things getting worse and worse, but I just see People who are more and more isolated getting louder and louder I don't see any gaining of ground. I just see attrition So, you know, it's always people always scream the loudest When they have the least amount of power So I'm I'm The whole thing is collapsing And I know personally multiple women who would have identified as liberal feminists Who are done with it like they they do not even like the terminology. They make fun of feminists and These are women who nevertheless Have you know, well-paying jobs Sometimes they're even more successful than the guys that they're with And nevertheless, they still hate the term feminist and they don't Want those kind of dynamics because they see them as poisonous and I think more than that The veil is kind of off where they realize not only is the intention of it Not fair And not only has it destroyed relationships But that they also I think see that that it's just coming from communists And women who want to have a family Don't want to be associated with women who want the destruction of the family so I mean I'm gonna say in this in this umbrella of of the internet and youtube I would say that most guys when they think of feminists, okay, you're gonna think of that purple blue haired Kind of pierced up screeching woman. That's your that's gonna be your typical um Thought of a feminist. I mean that to me, that's what most guys think of but I think there's a lot of undercover Feminists I would call them A lot of women that you wouldn't think, you know to me a lot of times, you know, we all you know We all kind of despise that strong independent woman phrase um And it's not like I think women take that the wrong way, you know, but what I've noticed is the strong independent woman is usually the one that already been through Like three or four marriages and I can do it on my own and you know, we know the whole term You know, you end up living with cats and cat food and box wine We know the whole the whole basic scenario So but I think most guys when you think of feminist you think of that purple haired Pierce tattoo that one woman screaming, you know, it's like a dude kind of thing But I think that's our basic vision of a feminist, but I think that's probably That's probably the minority. Would you agree? well I I would Agree that that is the archetype that's blown up, but I think that's actually a good Propaganda piece to blow up Because that's part of what has pushed regular women away from the term and the ideology I mean, you have a bunch of like disgusting looking women who are screaming and sounding ridiculous Regular women don't want to be a part of that anymore And so I actually am very happy to continue to amplify that image of what feminism is because that's good um That's good. That's good, you know, psychological operations to to isolate a term Like for instance, and we won't go into this too much But look at how my body my choice Was neutralized with the whole mandates That now when they tried to blow out the abortion thing and said my body my choice it kind of collapsed Because you the term was hijacked and neutralized. So you there's all sorts of ways you want to use this stuff against them um What I think is really interesting though to your point is that There are a lot of women who Maybe behave like feminists But they don't identify as feminist and then there's also the inversion and this is one of the things with um you know, I found very interesting about liberals and conservatives because Conservatism has a lot is really about like self-reliance at a certain level. It's about self-reliance And you know, liberalism is more collective. You can say You know, and I'm not saying that that in a Outside of the current context, which is extremely hijacked that you don't want to have some dialogue between The two things I think conservative is more masculine liberalism is more feminine, but if you just had pure Masculine energy as the guiding force in society you'd have fascism Just like if you had pure feminine energy, you'd have communism So it's good to have I think that you have a healthy republic When you have some level of of engagement between these themes Now I don't think I get too much in the weeds here, but as a result a lot of conservative women Are actually pretty pretty tough and outspoken. Yeah, and a lot of liberal women Are actually really submissive And just the issue is that a lot of those women are submissive to the state Instead of submissive to their their man And you know, I was talking to a client about this the other day and He made a really good point and he basically said It's really tough to find A woman who doesn't fall for this bullshit Who is feminine? Because a lot of the women who actually stand up against this stuff who haven't fallen for it Do have a level of What you could call Like feminist disposition, even if they ideologically are against it They are stronger. They're more used to standing up for themselves and taking charge and You know, I I don't think That those women are bad matches, but You are going to have to be Just a little bit extra more of a man To to totally get what you're saying a hundred percent. I mean, I've seen it without Yeah, and I mean, and you look a lot of these liberal women, they'll put up with Like total limperate, you know, a limperous loser Right because They're they're standard. They're so They have such a little sense of themselves and actually that's what draws them to the ideology because again, we talk about how it's fundamentally Especially the third wave feminism is fundamentally Marxist because it plays on victimhood so You have this idea that you're totally helpless and therefore But you really you're so strong. You're just depressed like the overt reality of your existence You know, you so that's a great way to put it. You're so strong. You're depressed and I've noticed that too. That's that's a fact yeah The I think there's a lot of conservative women like you said you really made a point I I mean and and it really made me think here But how how a lot of the conservative women are they They will identify as conservative and feminine, but they're still want that masculine role But I really like how you said you got to be like an extra man to tangle that, you know I mean you just do so Yeah, and and look I hate to speak plainly about it, but I think a lot of on one hand These women may be so used to having to fend for themselves and they and they may You know Be lying to them, you know, it's it's scary for a woman I talked about this at my 21 convention speech two years ago But for a woman a woman goes from being the feminine, which is really the feminine just receives It receives and so that's why women when they have to actually do like trauma release because they receive it into their womb, right? It is it they are a receptacle of energy and so a woman When she starts to if she's received too much crap too much negative stuff Then she starts to create like a real hard wall around herself And so then she becomes hard and you know, that's when she can become more of like Like a bitch and is just really not enjoyable. You can say that she's inter-masculine Right that she's she's now like i'm not going to let anything bad into me Like before i'm going to have full control over it and you'll see this goes even to the extent with sex, which is that they'll have sex on their terms No guy they're never going to surrender to a guy even sexually, which of course leads them to have less orgasms, which is one of the reasons why feminism has increased with you know, vibrators and whatever have increased with feminism because women are less and less able to actually get off Because they're more and more detached from their own sexual energy so You get to this point then where if a woman is going to really integrate she has to surrender to a man and but but it's not about losing the capacity for her to Stand for herself And and this is a point where and I have to be very you know, it's always especially with the audience I have to be very nuanced with how I talk about this stuff but You want a feminine woman, but really you don't want A doormat and I and I've worked with enough guys to know that When they get a doormat who's feminine cooks cleans does all this stuff that has like no sense of self They're not attracted to her. Yeah. She's an energy drain She's not he has to constantly Kind of like she's looking for his approval and for his And they just doesn't want that guys they they want a woman Who inspires them and who is there for them who supports them? but they want to respect her and You know, I think on a certain pragmatic level You also want to be able to trust that she can Pull down the fork to a certain extent. I mean Do you do you want your woman? Like maybe it's flattering But do you want your woman to be calling you about every single thing? Or do you want to have her? Be able to can you delegate to her like that's a great term right there delegate. I like yeah, I mean It's the same thing as the leader You're supposed to be directing the vision In the direction of the family the leader is is the focus that's the one the masculine is the masculine is focus focus And so the more focused a man is The more focused on a vision he is that's what makes him a leader You have a group of people who is the most focused on achieving the outcome that person becomes the leader It's not the person who can do all the little tasks. That's the manager Okay, so as a man, it's not about managing everything You want actually many ways women are better managers of a household The man is the leader of the household so This is one of those things that guys need to it's such a trigger when you hear like she's a strong independent woman Because when we hear that we hear the women who are actually in defense mechanism mode And who are trying to keep men out who are trying to prove themselves who are trying to act like men Because they don't personally feel like they're valuable And so they're disconnected from their femininity. They've rejected their femininity. They view it as weakness They view it as being taken advantage of and so they cling on to this masculine And they want everybody to know it which of course is a sub sub communication that they're actually extremely weak and fragile And just little girls on the inside Is it worth your time to deal with them? Not usually at that moment because they're still in their defensive mode but um A woman who doesn't take shit But surrenders to you is a super powerful asset And that's a woman who also is a queen, right? It's a woman who is dominant among other women So I think guys have to think very carefully About what exactly they're looking for I really like how you're explaining the nuances of that because Every there's so many words you said that would trigger probably not so many guys here But a lot of women who will watch this You know what I mean? There's all those little trigger words that you've said That I think would trigger women, but if they listen to the nuance how you describe it, you know It it makes sense. It makes perfect sense so Yeah, yeah, and and I'll also say this those women who are more Strong and independent right and who who have this capacity to them They are going to demand more view as a man and A lot of the a lot of what happens in relationships I'm not saying it's it's entirely the guy's fault Because it's always both sides that are dealing with the pattern but Very often the woman is testing the man because she doesn't trust him And guys have a hard time with that because Trust is they feel like well, you know, I have a have a decent job. You know, I'm in okay shape You know, I'm I'm around You know, why why isn't she Surrendering to me. Why isn't she doing all this stuff for me that I that I would like her to do And so their default thing and I think the the red pill You know Let me just say that When you're in a more serious relationship in particular You don't want to find yourself into like a serious power game With the woman that you're with Because nobody wins in the power game, you know, you She cannot give you what you want. So then you retaliate you learned how what she wants. So you pull back So then she doesn't get it. So then she has to come towards you again You get into the cycle over and over again, and then it's like well, if I just increase my value further Then she has less leverage and that's true It's true And you can do that and you can try to break them In that regard and that's one way you can go about doing it And I think for some guys Maybe that's what they want And maybe that's the kind of dynamic that they want to have the woman might not go along with it They find another woman who they can bring into that Set it set the frame from the very beginning but I find that a lot of women these these more Stronger women What they're really looking for is that they can't they don't feel like they can emotionally trust the guy Because they see that the guy is trying to take something from them And so it becomes this sort of like You know and part of it's that he's not showing up Maybe as a man that he's you know waking up late, you know, she's skipping stuff cutting corners Stuff like he's trying to avoid responsibility and she senses it and so she doesn't trust him And women are very fine tuned to that stuff But it can also be that He's not almost respecting the gifts that she offers and Valuing her and so as a result she gets really defensive Whereas once she feels Seen and understood and respected and appreciated Then her defense mechanisms drop and that femininity starts to come up So it's kind of this this thing that you know But i'm not saying that you shouldn't speak your mind like there's so much context to this stuff I just want guys to understand that but Eventually like you gain in the fights with her In telling her and you know just doing the withdrawal stuff You may only get you know marginal results with it at a certain point with certain women and Anyway, no, I think I think I mean what you're saying is too like with dr Sean smith last week if anybody hasn't seen that That show I did with him last week. Check it out. It's it's awesome But we talked about looking inward and that's kind of what you're saying with men is sometimes We always tend to blame somebody else And what i'm getting from what you're saying is is that guy has to kind of look inward and see what he's doing wrong He's not leading properly. He's not picking up. Let's let's say he's not Seeing the full context of the relationship. So that's kind of what you're saying, but I think looking inward is really important Yeah, and I think You know, this is a really another important piece of nuance is that if as a guy when you're looking at what you What you're doing wrong in a relationship, but you're looking at it like How do I please her and make her happy than you're fucked like you're you're now not looking You want you have to look at it as if okay, I'm the leader. Let me take full stock and assessment of myself Where am I falling short that might? Correspond to things that she's given you crap about and that's just being honest But it may also correspond not correspond the things she's given you crap about because she might give you crap about something Super innocuous and stupid Because she doesn't trust you overall or she feels abandoned And so as a result of that She blows something really tiny some tiny maybe mistake or that didn't matter at all Out of proportion and turns you into this into this bad guy This happens with a lot of different relationships And understandably guys get really pissed off about this stuff and they don't like it, but it's amazing how In in dynamics if you if you guys are really in it together how Dropping the ego on your end and being like, you know what? I'm just going to I'm going to focus on on what I can do for myself and I'm going to be real with her about what, you know I'm going to be real with her About kind of what I've gone through you never you're never asked you never like Give me sympathy feel bad for me about it But you're just being real being open about yeah, this is something I'm struggling with And I'm and this is what I'm working on And this would help me, you know asking women for help They love it They they respond way better to it than like here do this do this do this if you ask them for help They like to help Well, I mean the the original I mean a woman is really considered like in christianity a health mate Yeah You know, that's where that word comes from So But the one thing I just want the audience to understand is that with the stuff and and I know this is always something that It's it's difficult to talk about because There's so many different situations There's so many different dynamics. You can be in one Some guy is listening to what I'm saying and he's remembering His experience with a borderline girl and he's going to be like pat is full of shit Pat has no idea what he's talking about that would never work And the reality is that in that situation that would be correct, you know, if you're with a toxic woman This isn't going to work. Although you could argue it does work in the sense that it unequivocally reveals that she's actually toxic rather than just Hurting herself towards you, right that she's just not she might it a lot of times women act a negative way in a relationship Because they're they're defensive, you know, they're self-protecting. They're actually don't feel very good about themselves And so it's just a defense mechanism You only find out the toxicity when you drop your own ego and if you do that and she responds Still really nasty to you then you're like, okay. Well, this one was a bitch. I can get out of here And and you know, you could you should probably know that anyway, right? You should probably know anyway that she's really toxic because a good woman who you're fighting with Is going to act very differently than a toxic one, you know, a good woman's not going to go and like Disappear for a few nights You know, that's that's that's not going to happen Yeah, I you know, I'm since we've discussed a feminist The big question is what is a male feminist and I've got a little take on this There's a couple things I always see in chats. I see it in comments and Every time I see this I think of a male feminist is when a guy Tells another guy and I know you have seen this Probably as much as I have on twitter on youtube When a guy says to another guy, that's feminine energy I can't stand that It is such a weak argument. It is a It is the worst. It is so bad I'm telling you guys anybody watching If you have said that to somebody it's super weak It's just a lame argument and when I see that I almost look at it as That's like your last ditch effort. That's all you have to say because you can't come up with any any kind of Really good comment or retort to what was said whether it be in the comments Or on twitter or on a video But when I see a dude saying telling another dude, that's feminine energy That just really really bothers me and I don't know why it just does. It's just one of those things That's a real pet peeve of mine The reason I say that is is because there's a lot of guys that think that men don't have Arguments or don't disagree. We should all get along kumbaya. It's for the greater good I think you're wrong Yeah, exactly and that's and a lot of the responses are That's feminine energy and it just really bothers me when somebody says that Every time I see that I want to go Usually see some faceless avatar. You know what I mean? But one of those things man, that really bothers me Well, I don't like to beat a dead horse, but there's you know, there's that certain individual um, I think a lot and I think and I think he's pulled a lot of the red pill community into what is really Very like male The male version of feminism. Yeah, basically And it's very catty And it's very oh, you didn't you didn't say it the right way You know, you didn't use it this way you have to all we all have to dress the same way, you know You can't do your pony, you know, it's just it's it's stupid conformist shit and even the way that they Engage with this stuff Um, which is by not engaging in any sort of direct confrontation. It's always, you know, sneaky and Look, you know men The most the most male form of verbal communication is debate Like that's and I'm not I actually like conversations better than debate. I think it's healthier, right to have a conversation but Verbal sparring among men. I mean you used to at all the elite universities. I mean you used to learn debate That used to be an important thing in western civilization as a man to debate and You know, so if you're a man who's not willing to debate Then and you have ideas and you don't really you're just acting like the state, you know When they decide to change the definition of whatever recession is to say that we're not in a recession You know, it's it's that kind of shit So I don't I think the red pill and I'm not going to say the entire red pill but uh The red pill has many many male versions of feminist and They and the third wave feminists really feed off of each other It's like the victim olympics like who's more victimized. Is it men or is it women? Victimization makes money is what I've noticed. Yep makes money You know, it's it's it's like it's basically like women relying on the state versus men relying on I'll say it rollo You know, it's the same exact thing as far as I'm concerned Yeah And and look this isn't to negate Any of the fundamental truths about what it is to be a man? Yeah as a man. No one gives a fuck about you Right, you have to prove yourself Now you can say that you have to prove yourself or you can say you get to prove yourself you get the you get to Become something you get that opportunity I was having a chat with um a couple guys and a couple of ladies a few weeks ago And we were over fire pit and we were talking about this stuff And I said well, you know, it it does it does suck Right, it does suck in some ways like women don't understand What it's like To be a man and to have the indifference of the world especially as you as you you know Man as you get into your your late 20s and certainly your 30s and beyond I mean just nobody gives nobody cares about you. Nobody cares about you at all they don't care about you you're entirely on your own to prove yourself and And but the thing is if you're a beautiful woman you get the entire world handed to you on a silver silver platter And it's amazing thing, but if you're not a beautiful woman You don't really get much of anything, you know There is So there's this envy and you see the feminist envy The men that men can go improve themselves that men can go out there and define their value Well, I'm going to do that I'm going to be successful in my career and I'm going to abort all my kids and I'm going to be Because nothing's going to tie me down Right And then you have these red pill guys who are like look at women pretty women get whatever they want You know, I wish I could just be a pretty woman. They can get sex whenever they want You know They can get banged by that That's a male feminist Yeah, that's a male feminist and that's what a lot of these red pill guys without they talk They're it's understand what women are like, but why would you envy them? I don't envy them I love the fact that I get to define myself as a man Like it's it's a great thing I understand that it also must be a pretty cool experience To be you know an attractive woman and have all this stuff You know offered to you it's it's but it's If you're really a man The experience of a woman is such a foreign thing like I I Can conceptualize What it's like being a woman But it's a it's a totally logical conception Like I think the only men that have even Some vague approximation of what it's like being a woman Are very very Handsome men Very very handsome men Like us Like like us, right? I think we're all right, Tony. I don't think we're quite I don't think we're Abercrombie from the 2000s, you know Those guys get a taste Of what it's like, but even even it's it's still not Completely correspondent so Yeah, I think I think the Like a male feminist to me is worse than a feminist and it's to me. It's a lot of white knighting is what it is That's kind of my depiction of a male feminist you You mean like the Like a male feminist in terms of actual feminism. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. Yeah. I mean These are these are guys who are Well, first off, I think that there's a large level of predatoryness to them So I think the thing what's interesting about this this conversation Is to think about and I've been writing a piece on this and I've kind of like dropped it and come back to it So we can just talk a bit a bit about it right now, but about patriarchy versus matriarchy and One of the I think spurious arguments that gets put around about the benefits of a matriarchy Is that in a matriarchy, you know, everything's kumbaya and Everyone, you know, it's just it's just all love and connection and there's no real conflict and There's no that's all bullshit. It's bullshit It's still a hierarchy And it's still a hierarchy that men dominate the top of It's just that what the women select for those men That get all the sexual spoils Are different traits than what men select for the men who get the predominance of the sexual spoils in a matriarchy women will select men based on their ability to flatter and You know, make them, you know, basically You could say make them feel emotionally connected And look, I don't think making being able to emotionally connect with a woman is a negative thing I think that guys should learn how to do it. I think it's part of being an integrated man It is more of a feminine Aspect doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It just means it's more of a feminine thing. So And I think it makes it just really jumped in because there's something that you had said a few years ago That really struck me And I I've never heard anybody put it like this, but you you said you have to Dip your toes in the feminine Yeah And I I've always liked that because to me when the first time I heard you say that it just it really what it really meant was understand the feminine If you can't if you can't not really I don't I definitely don't want to say experience it but understand it and to me again when you say Dip your toes in the feminine just like I think a woman should dip her toes in the masculine would help her understand her man So yeah, no, it's it's a hundred it's a hundred percent and it's it's also just like if you If you want to have a connected relationship with a woman, you're gonna have to learn how to how to connect Right, you're gonna have to learn how to do that That that doesn't mean you spend all day doing it and you don't do anything else You're just you know, I think as a man You can become dissipated if you're then not able to go out and do your mission But if you're just doing your mission and the relationships is kind of a sideshow Well, you will reap what you sow From that now on a structural level though the matriarchy It's not about a man having the man's mission is is to you know, meet the woman's emotional needs And you know emotional and frankly sexual needs and so if she and a lot of guys they they're very seduced by this I mean, it's a it's an appealing thing if you're the guy if you're pete davidson You know who for whatever reason gets selected to Be the guy that all these attractive women Can sleep with you know, he gets the he gets put at the top of this pyramid so to speak and but You know, do you think that pete davidson is someone that you would want to be Rule in the roost or would you prefer somebody like napoleon? You know men select hierarchies based on competence based on strength based on leadership and So And that's what a patriarchy is fundamentally now a lot of the attacks on You know, let's dismantle the patriarchy Really what we had prior to this big feminist push Was not like a pure patriarchy like a pure patriarchy is what you saw in the hijaz Which is basically western arabia pre islamic arabia where you had men who had like 10 12 women And they were all killing each other and women were getting basically, you know Married, but it was like it It was an abusive dynamic. It was it was a very very harsh Existence and a lot of people don't know this about islam, but islam was reform For a lot of this stuff. So they said all right. Look guys stop you can have Four wives, but you have to take care of them all equally and if you can't take care of an additional woman you can't marry her and so it was like this compromise between mass polygamy Which was this extreme patriarchy and you know And in much more of a balanced one in the west we had an extremely balanced patriarchy. You could argue that it was just simply Near equilibrium ideal equilibrium where women's emotional needs were taken care of in a relationship But the man still led and directed but I mean So you can argue that feminism took us off that equilibrium Let me um real quick. There's a 21 super chat from uh deacon little Yeah, you know david little i'm sure. Yeah, so uh, do you want to respond to this one real quick? Yeah, well, I mean david this is i 100 agree with you and One thing i'll actually say Is that a lot of women are pissed off at this stuff too because this heavy catering to women in the workplace has led to women Being kept around who really don't pull their weight don't do and so yet it affects men, but even other women They see the dead baggage all over the workplace women who actually do work right so Yeah, I think it's it's very frustrating and it's a product of just the current um Social apparatus my my contention is that as the economic situations And the system collapse really gets in the full speed this stuff is all going to stop because you can't afford to Have all these bullshit positions for people who don't perform When the rubber hits the road it's been propped up by Um easy money Basically over the past decade. So I think as that easy money disappears. I think you're going to see a lot of these uh these jobs disappear so Kind of a blended answer I guess but yeah, thanks for responding to that I want to recognize the super chats on 21 studios Yeah, it's funny Let's go into the workplace now because one of the things the statistics that I found In my research and you know, I researched things before I talk about them We all think of feminism and and when you think of like workplace Now based on statistics women are 21 percent more likely to report unfair treatment from fellow female co-workers Which I was a little surprised to see that because I think when you hear that everybody hears the word feminist It's only about men, but that's not what I've been Seeing here. It's really women beating on other women Kind of I mean that's kind of what I get This is especially true in the hierarchy um Women are and it's not Across the board. It's not 100 percent. Of course. Nothing's ever 100 percent but A lot of women are very very vicious To any kind of competition in the workplace um and a lot of because a lot of women will View their ascension, you know that they're moving up in the workplace and they connect themselves to men And so they view other women as a competition to moving up the ladder um They may also feel like They didn't have the same kind of help so they don't want to give it To others, but it's more the former. It's more that These women feel like they have um That that that the the new up and comers are a threat to them in their position And they really stamp the boot on them. Also, even just among women in kind of parallel positions I mean I think everybody's getting amber heard may have like helped to break open the normy mind virus on this stuff, but My god, how are people so fucking blind? That they it's like they like women don't lie. What do you mean? Women don't lie women don't do, you know mean things Like you fucking kidding me This is Like women are our cutthroat. They're vicious to each other. They just stab you in the back. They don't do it to your front You know men are overtly competitive But actually cooperative Why do you think that was so Broadly publicized the whole amber herd Johnny depth thing. We know it's because of Johnny depth I mean if that was the average guy, it would have never probably ever made it to court but I think that it actually opened some people's eyes is what it did Yeah, I think it was just you had you had just just like a Tempestuous celebrity drama. I don't think they could resist it Honestly, especially when you have stuff like, you know her shitting the bed and Stuff like that. I mean it was it's just like she's never going to live down amber turd. I mean her last Herd, so I mean she's put on a little bit of weight I mean she's still like, you know attractive, but she used to be really hot Like really really hot. So you have this like Super hot girl who's like, you know dated Elon Musk even I mean really has Had this sort of femme fatale reputation. There's a lot of drama around it, but But yeah, it's like This is part of the big lie This is the part of the big lie that women are not capable of this kind of stuff And the first people who will tell you it's a lie are other women Like so it's it's kind of like It's just shoved down our throats That oh, you can't say this. Oh, you know but Men will have a confrontation and They will You know, they might they might scream at each other and then it gets worked out Or if they become enemies they become enemies, you know they become rivals, but It's it's not this sort of Like petty bullshit that you see really happen with with women I mean women tear each other down over really really petty shit I mean, let's let's get into the meat meat and potatoes of this whole thing right now Again, it's the truth about dating and feminism. So to to your I guess your thought process. What is the number one thing that feminism has done with dating? I'll I'll kind of give you I'll give you my take on it quick. I think it's it's um The word simp as it evolved from feminism That's kind of my first take on it. So I'll let you go So what is the like the main thing that feminism is destroying in dating and then I want to get into Marriage not like getting married, but if you're already in a marriage sure about dating right now Well, I'll actually take maybe an unexpected direction. I think it's destroyed connection. Okay because feminism is such a defensive it's like a defense mechanism and so If you're if you're on a date with a feminist you it immediately becomes apparent that you can't be yourself You can't speak freely Because you have to be really sensitive to her And you have to walk on eggshells around her. Yeah So That's the I mean at least at least with women who identify as it Right like you might you might be on a date with a more conservative girl Who hates feminist but is maybe a little bit more like what the feminist wishes they were like and you might not have that same problem but What what you and I've seen this over and over again with clients is that they'll go on a date with a girl and It's like whatever And this is a little bit off from feminism, but it's all the same kind of thing Which is like whatever the current thing is they have to check you for it Check to make sure that you're in compliance with whatever the current thing is and Stuff with trump in particular, you know Was a huge trigger for so many women. I mean didn't mean that you couldn't sleep with those women, but it Feminism in general has made men Way more Sensitive to to a woman's ego And that's what to your point tony about them becoming simps is that If you start to become sensitive to a woman's ego Then it gradually morphs you into a creature that Exists to appease her ego And that's why we have These sort of weak men today these simps today. It's it's completely downstream of feminism Mm-hmm Yeah, it's that that's another word that I just I don't know It just bothers me. I think it's thrown out there A little bit too much simp and feminine energy are two of the biggest words you see in a lot of chats and And I think it's Man to me. It's just that's part of I don't know that word those couple words just bother me I don't think they're used in context most of the time I think there's a need for those words and those phrases, but they're not used in context, you know so When let's say a guy's on a date and a woman is telling him first date telling This guy her political views I'm gonna say that most guys are going to Really not even political views. We'll say moral views Mm-hmm I gotta put this the right way so how what they'll do is they will Bend quite a bit basically to get in their pants And I think that's probably Probably a fair assumption with most guys Would you agree on that? Yeah, I think to to mix success. I mean look It has to be said If you understand game You can totally agree with the woman on these things and you can use it to your advantage to get laid I mean, I put out this tweet the other day about you know, women beware if he identifies as a male feminist There's a better than even chance. He's a sexual predator I saw that that was a good tweet. Yeah And I mean, it's it's true though like Those guys I've seen in spirituality communities, which are, you know, very feminine communities You have the guy who gets in to the matriarchy, right? He gets into the matriarchy and he's like I'm here for you women. Don't worry about anything. I'm here for you girls and If he doesn't act in a playcane way In other stuff but just tells them what they want to hear Then he can totally get into their pants because they're like, oh my god This guy's the exception to all those other asshole guys that you know out there. He really understands feminism And wait a minute. What the fuck? Why is he beating me? Because I mean, you know, he won't let me leave the house, like, you know, but he really supports the feminist cause, you know It's it's this kind of dissonant stuff but from a one night stand perspective a lot of guys will chameleon and go into it because You know Gain into a political argument Isn't gonna get you lead um Now I will say this It can get you lead If if not necessarily getting into an argument, but simply just being like whatever like and and Really tapping into the masculine side of things and dealing with the tension But you will have to maneuver that tension at some point and I will say that with a lot of these women You're gonna be dealing with so much dissonance that these girls like It's gonna be hit or miss you might waste your night dealing with a girl who's attracted to you but also Like needs to desperately um You know change you Because you're confusing her patterning about what an attractive guy is So she has to keep trying to find reconciliation for it. So you'll have to give her some kind of out with that You know something to bring the two of you back together Uh, if you want to if you want to sleep with her Yeah, I like what jay says here. That's a good comment Well, I don't want to yeah, it is a good comment. It is a good comment jay But I'll say you don't have to go against your own principles. It's just that This is You know, this isn't it's an approach you can take you can And Like you can very much Go against her create all this tension. But then You have to bring the two of you back together. You have to find some Reconciliation, but you know, okay, we disagree about trump, but you know, like I don't think women should vote, but I do think that You know, I do agree that chocolate cake is the best So we have chocolate cake We're gonna get divorced maybe down the line, but there's already a lot of sparks You have to pivot the whole dynamic to bring the two of you back together and harness that tension It can totally be done It can totally be done but For a lot of guys because they don't like handling tension. They'd prefer just a Go to the sneaky route. Yeah, and the tension is good I think a lot of guys don't understand that tension is good That back and forth is is is really that's you know, that's kind of a push and pull what you need And a lot of guys are afraid to to have the push and pull. They just want to agree, you know I mean Maybe I'm just too removed from it at this point, but I mean I I can't imagine Not expressing myself to get lead Like I I just can't at this point Think for like I I would have contempt In the situation to have compromise it so anyway, I think it's important to have that stuff too because You you know when it comes to dating there's tactics and there's strategy and My big gift In dating is is really focusing on strategic picture Like there's all sorts of tactical things you can do You know different ways to get to get there, but it's only getting you to the first point and then down the line It actually creates more problems You want to get used to being yourself You want to get used to expressing yourself fearlessly And you also want within the dating context You want to end up And you want to be spending your time Sharing your your seed and your energy With women who you don't You know, you don't want to be doing that with women. You don't have respect for this my personal opinion I think it over time And we all make mistakes, right? But over time It starts to accrue And you get lower quality women and you feel worse about yourself and you start to hate yourself Because you're settling for stuff that you know, you have to put on an act It's not really who you are You're living a lie and you have shame you start to internalize shame And it's a path that really leads you it leads you in a bad direction A lot of the guys I work with I have to pull out of that They're so knotted with shame and they're like, well, why am I bad with women? It's like, well at this point you're bad with women because you've been completely hiding who you are So The way to masculinity Is not to take that approach because that's that's the way to the long house as You know bronze age pervert would say that's towards a matriarchy is when you start the process Of appeasing a woman's ego to get sex from her you're you're going down to the matriarchy You're not going towards the matriarchy Depends on what she looks like Jay's got some good comments. Good comments. Jay. I like Yeah, it does Yeah, I think a lot of people will bend on their politics if she looks good And and I guess sometimes that's okay, but you know, again, we're talking about we're talking about dating right now. So, you know, it's it's Let me let me just make a real point though if she's if she's very attractive She's very attractive You're probably even better off standing up to her Yeah, because she's used to it. It's it's actually the appeasement game works best on like the sixes and sevens Yeah You know, oh, he's funny man. I like Jay. He had some great comments here so far tonight. So let me uh Self-made says he just ghosts vegetarians That's a good one And oh jet he's he's a go he's good in the chat man easy way to repel I'm gonna swear a mag of hat. That's great. Well, let's dive into marriage. Let's say you're married now you're married you're You're happily married for We're just I'll throw a number 10 years Have the kids kids are going to daycare wife starts working again The feminist ideology is just born in her brain every day at the office She comes home acting different What do you do? so What I would say here is that if She's if that stuff is okay, so let's go back to the initial analogy of the woman being a receptacle So if she's being filled with this stuff and she's receiving it That means she hasn't been either a receiving The proper I don't want to use the term but proper instruction proper kind of ways of thinking so That's something that you've not been doing obviously And the second part of it is that she hasn't herself Developed enough of an independent sense of self to be able to resist Like very very low level social pressure. Now. I'm not naive about female nature Women are always going to be influenced by social pressure men are too to a lesser extent than the aggregate woman but A woman who like so as a man and this actually applies to children as well But as a man, I was talking about this actually with my last interview with noa revoy You're you want Your woman and children You don't want them to just sort of do what you say you want them to Be in alignment with you you want them to develop their own sense of thinking you so it So it sounds to me like when these kind of situations present themselves you have a guy Who's kind of on the on the box checking thing and so Maybe he's got some level of Can you know control over you know the woman's relatively feminine? Because she doesn't have a career or anything. She's never really done much She has no real sense of herself the guy isn't really connecting with her on an intimate level really isn't showing Direct masculine engagement with her. He's just kind of like the guy and he makes money. So He has more authority whatever So that when she goes out into that environment She's like well I don't really feel connected to my man And I don't you know, and this is the first time I felt like I matter Really like I'm actually doing something for myself. I'm making some money for myself And so it's easy for her to then get pulled into That whole world that whole environment and so What you do with it is that I think you actually need to focus on first off, it's a wake-up call, but you need to focus more on on on okay What is something she needs development? She needs to have more development of herself. So how can you guide that in a way that isn't destructive to the marriage? You know, what kind of you guys aren't connecting very much. So maybe you need to take more time For the relationship and the focus on that. So her energy is not going into this resentment vacuum that's the sort of first Salvo I'd say on that topic What do you think of this comment right here? I don't believe feminism is to blame lack of intelligences to blame. I think it's I think it's a really good comment You know because it's in this I I would say It's it's certainly discernment, right? It's discernment and this goes back to the whole point of an individualized woman so if you're If you haven't learned you might have an high IQ, but if you can't learn the thing for yourself Are you really intelligent? I mean it's kind of a semantic question, but I bring it up because I've spent a lot of time with people who you know, you can't say these people aren't really high IQ They are really really high IQ Okay, Ivy League kids very very high IQ But a lot of them don't think for themselves because to get to an Ivy League school You need to follow A very very complicated and intense set of rules Basically you got to really really perform within certain parameters And then you get rewarded with this, you know a little badge A little shield, you know that tells you what Ivy League school you went to and so Those people are intelligent, but they can't think for themselves So it's it's the idea that women can't think for themselves if they don't think for themselves they'll get sucked in the feminism because They're they're outsourcing they're thinking to a yet another thing but this time it flatters Their ego in their sense that well, I don't really know Who I am I don't really like I've never seen really Really confident women Don't talk about feminism. Mm-hmm. Just never talk about it. It's it's It's kind of absurd to them Yeah, I thought that was a that was a good comment right there. I like a very good comment See what else we got Oh, let me say hi to watch or watch or good to see you my man. Yeah Good to see you Yeah, I want to welcome everybody a lot of new faces from 21 studios man Appreciate everybody jumping in and talking with me and pat and I really talking with pat tonight I'm just uh, I'm just the moderator and the guy asking the questions tonight. So uh, that is our professional so but um So what is the what do you think is the biggest? I'll say the biggest What's the word I'm looking for The biggest result of feminism in other words, what's the worst results of feminism right now in the u.s As of today destruction of the family. Okay That's a great answer. Yeah, and go ahead and expound on that a little well and I think that is the primary objective of at least the the activists is the destruction of the family because When they talked about the patriarchy what they really mean is male presence in the family They want it removed completely and Yeah, it's it's obviously not a good thing but This this whole process I mean This is why I just call it what it is Like people have been using all sorts of different terminology and I've used them even over the years You know people talking about cultural Marxism and like let's just call it what it is. It's communism It's it's the same thing. They just put different little veneers on it but You destroy a country by destroying the family Because countries are made up of families and so The objective is to make women and men hate each other And not trust each other So that then they don't really have kids at all But to the extent that they do have kids That those marriages they come out of broken dynamics So then the kids are traumatized by it And then they have all sorts of broken attachment And then when they have broken attachment and they feel negative about themselves and you can force feed more propaganda into them So one of the things about all this destruction of the family and It's designed to collapse individuals identities because if you can collapse someone's identity You're able to reprogram them. That's actually a major reason for this push about all sorts of you know various sexual identities is because If you can make someone confuse about their own sexual identity You've basically completely broken their brain And you can shove whatever you want into there and they become total um You know total emissary, you know, they did become like easy revolutionaries or whatever kind of thing you want to do because And then they become so far removed from what a healthy family situation looks like They begin to hate the entire family system because they blame it On that because what they're told is the family system is what Was painful to them and that put them in the state. So they don't even know what a good family looks like now the And this is something I think it's really so important to say because We we want to be part of the solution not part of the problem And it's very easy in this community. There's a red pill space to see the hate being thrown at us by a lot of you know, hurt and broken women and then to Not simply understand What's actually going on but then to feel our own sort of hate and resentment And throw it back on them. So it's like well women are just going to act upon us and take from us So then I have to go act upon women and take from them And that actually just continues the cycle I understand how to date like that. I did it a little bit myself. I'm very aware of the process of how to how to game a girl and to The push on her pain triggers to get her to do certain things I don't think it's constructive. I don't think it'll make you feel good about yourself You can Use those same triggers to heal a woman You can't do this with every woman. I'm not saying every woman but you can do this To heal many women you and those women can both heal together And you can fix this attachment to Jay's question. How do we get it back? The nuclear family is all but gone now I have a view of history Things only go so far Before they swing back the other direction and we've already started to see this swing back the other direction We are seen in gen z gen z is a is complete Destruction I mean that dating scene is complete destruction and the result of it is A lot of people saying Fuck this entire game And a lot of people are actually going to heal And they're trying to figure out They're they're just they're completely done with the system. They're completely done with the way that things are operating it Will recover and it will recover especially when when we you know guys here Start to set examples for it start to paint a way forward There's going to be a lot of wreckage Not everybody's going to make it but I can tell you that Um casual sex culture has really it's it's hit. It's in the deer We we've hit the bottom and we're already on the way out of it It's not exciting to people anymore people are jaded by it people sex like it's They're actually increasingly disgusted by it And I know that a lot of the young people still aren't there yet But there's the the ones that are are so fixated. They're so focused, right? They're so focused on getting out of it Everything is is going to be is going to be swinging the other direction and there's going to be a big cleanup That's going to occur not everybody's going to make it But a lot of us are going to make it and I think anybody who wants to make it will make it frankly You know assuming they haven't done got you can get monkey pox or something like that You know, I think don't think you'll make it. I'm an optimist, but I'm also I'm also realistic I mean, I I know how bad it is. I just already have seen Like when people get to this level of frustration That's good. That's what you want to see. It's when people are still like Oh my god. Yeah, you know more you know Trannies or something like that that's when like That's when you know, it's it's we still got ways to go and we're past it people are so Sick and disgusted of the whole thing Jay, thank you for your questions and comments man. A lot of good questions and comments Let me take a look down here. See if I missed anybody Yeah Yeah, so what I'm going to do next is I am if if you guys are watching on 21 studios right now, you're not familiar with my channel But what I do is I put the live link in the chat so you can come on and talk with pat about feminism in dating And maybe any other questions that you have So I'm going to go ahead and do that right now You just followed the directions here and uh I'm going to post that right now and I'll pin it when it pops up on my end So if you guys want to come in talk to pat, I'm going to ask that That you uh, hopefully come on without an avatar tonight There are guys I do know that do have avatars and that's all right But if you do have an avatar, I'm going to have to put up the shield and you're going to have to ask your questions. So We don't we don't get any trolls. So because if you're not familiar with my channel, I get a lot especially when Especially when I open up the panel So I'm going to pin that message To the top of the chat. So right in the top is a stream yard link You want to come on join the panel join the conversation? Any of my regular guys you want to jump on now's the time? I'll see you pop in backstage so But um, yeah, let's continue on Um, let me see what else I got my notes here. Okay. There's a question that I had is is uh Is this a result of feminism is? Women having sex and still putting you in the friend zone Okay, I've got uh three guys i'm going to bring on i'm gonna i'm going to put the shield up anyways just I see one I see the other one and uh, just just just because I uh, there's a lot of good. There's a lot of good, uh Let me think of a good shield to put up here Is this a good one? Yeah, there's a good one so, uh Caduceus is that you Yes, it is. So is this where I show you my penis? Nope. I hope not I know that's you and uh watcher. I know that's you So Oh, I got somebody else backstage. Let me see who it is here It's Mohammed. Okay. I know Mohammed. I'll bring him back. I'll bring him on and let's go boys Yeah, let's do it. Hello. Hello. Yeah, welcome guys. Welcome and uh, glad to have you on the stream with pat steadman Whoever wants to go first. Let's go for it Hey, I was gonna go first because I want to get back down in the chat moderate on tony side um If selective services for women was passed like they were trying to pass which I think would Degrade the military anyway, but wouldn't that negate feminism? The first wave feminism That's for pat Well, um I I think that So I just I did that that didn't pass. I knew that that was an idea I didn't pass which which is like in my own opinion is a good thing because In our service services, I don't think we need A full stock woman brigade, you know Yeah, I mean I I probably would have been indifferent to it one way or another because it's kind of accelerationist You know in a certain sense and true and something but I yeah, yeah So in ukraine right now um, women are getting conscripted And I don't think Very often yet put in front line service, although it has been happening And I mean if anyone's familiar with what's really going on ukraine. It's it's just a meat grinder. It's ukraine is losing a battalion 600 men a day dead They've already suffered a hundred thousand casualties so I think if you had that um If you were to have a war like that With female conscription I I think you would I think women would be pretty rushing to give up a lot of rights To avoid that situation because they're they're super not cut out for it Not that women can't shoot not that, you know, women I'm not Taking away anything. There's always but your average woman Your average man for that matter is not cut out to be under sustained artillery fire Exactly that's we that's what I was getting at but Wouldn't it if it really did pass and we had no objection, you know what I mean? um, would that Just dismantle first wave feminism because now they don't have the right to vote I mean they have a right to vote But there's a reason there's a good reason that the sign up for the selective service Which I think is a bad idea like we both just discussed So what is the solution on that? Well, I think if I don't think them Being eligible for selective service would in itself dismantle first wave feminism But I think if you were to have that occur in a wartime setting Then you'd start to see women um Really protesting to try to get out of it that oh, we don't women aren't meant for this stuff We shouldn't be having this stuff. We shouldn't and and that could plausibly lead to a A restructuring but the but I think the reality is that they would try to still vote but You know not put themselves in In rough situations And so it's more likely that you know a polity that's at that point a political discussion during a war Is probably likely to lose the war So, um Well, we just see what happened with roby versus wade and like All right, you know They're screaming Oh, you know our rights are taken away and hey, it's they're about their body their choice So what what fight in the game do I have to fight for them on that one? So we see how they acted towards that So if they took the right to vote away, could you just imagine? I I don't know I Think that that the only way that you would get women to lose the right to vote would be I still think in the end. It's only going to happen in some sort of real societal stress and collapse Because otherwise women You know women are not if you were to give them like the the argument of well Either let yourself have abortions or you know lose the right to I just I I don't Right to vote is so embedded in all of their even protesting That they should have the right to decide all this stuff. So you're gonna have to see women decide like Wait a minute. I don't want any of this Stuff that I thought I wanted and you already are seeing that actually occur that women are complaining about how Long they have to work and how, you know, they don't have time for anything and they're drained of energy And that maybe, you know, they don't want to work full-time. They just want to work part-time But this is all them complaining about stuff. It's not about them getting rid of their You know, right to vote I don't I don't know that somebody's some male politician might say look we'll we'll fix all this stuff for you Just give up the right to vote I I don't think it could go about that You'd have to use some kind of trickery To to get them to do it Well, I'll just I'll just make a comment that You know bronze age pervert and his book talked about the way to deal with women voting was just to be like a very You know, handsome demagogue That would That would you know, you could get you could look women Voted more than men for the nazi party Back You know, it's We'll just leave that there. Yeah, that's what that's what I'm saying. It's like gotten taken over you know, even the studies show that if it was The women were voting The it would the whole government system wouldn't be swayed a different way right now But I was just I just wanted to ponder on that a little bit and hear what you had to say about it But I'll get back down in a chat guys. Thanks guys. Thank you for that Thanks. Um, I see bill blast backstage. I'll bring you on in a second, but I just want to kind of When you had said like women in the military I remember my first when I say first big job my first big job when I was hired To to build this big building as a superintendent my boss when I was hiring as far as laborers and different people for the job I remember when everybody was out there and you know, I was kind of doing interviews and first thing he said to me He's no women like no None Not because he wasn't afraid of them not doing the work. He he was afraid that it would interrupt work He told me he said I didn't he said it didn't matter. It doesn't matter what they look like Somebody's gonna want to fuck him on the job Just that simple and so he's like just no women at all for laborers. So and the job went smooth But I you know, I to me that kind of aligns with the whole military thing. So Well, I'll just I'll make a comment it it does affect Comorotary it it affects dynamics. This is very well known and this is why I think To date they've still managed to prevent women from being in combat units Because it although, you know, I keep pushing they keep pushing because it really disrupts How men even act in the unit because it's like If you see it if a woman's under if the woman in the in the unit is under fire You know, the man is maybe more inclined to to do something and to not think in terms of mission parameters Because there's a woman there Even if he's not like a simp or anything like that, right it used the word even if he's not like it's just very much wired into men to protect women and And you know, I think it also affects the The communication among the men some rare women Will you know Managed to be enough of one of the guys to not really disrupt that so much But there's still then the the sexual aspect of it that gets in the way And you know enlisted women in the military tend to get pregnant So out of wedlock It's it's a it's a meme about them on deployments. I wouldn't want to be the boyfriend back at home With an enlisted woman officers may be different story, but anyway, it's Yeah, I don't want to digress they it affects it affects the dynamics now It's a philosophical question That okay, so women affect the dynamics in a workplace, but does that impact on the dynamics Warrant them being excluded from it is the impact enough that it's it's worth violating their You know rights to be able to To work and do something No, I I think In the in the case of the military my argument would be no But in a civilian sector, I would argue Yeah, I mean, I don't think that you should Be able to ban women from working there But I think that you should also as an employer have the choice About whether you want to hire or not. I I'm not necessarily I'm more of a free market person there because when you start to impose mandates on well, you know, you have to hire this person you have to It just you get all sorts of distortions and anyway That's where we're David little I see you're I'm going to get to your uh, 21 super chat here in a second I just want to look at the new comment here Yeah, and you guys uh, subscribe to patch channel for sure. Check him out Thank you. Yeah, also some other regular guys self-made check out his channel He just had a did a great short about uh making sandwiches. I'll just leave it at that Yeah, check out self-made channel for sure So nice psa Oh hang on one second And phone is ringing Anyways, um, let me uh, let me bring on a new guy bill Bill are you ready unmute your mic if you would? And I'm gonna bring you on here. I'm gonna I'm gonna have to put up a shield my man until uh All right, bill. Hello. Yeah, bill right here. Okay. How you doing? Good, how are you good? Did you come in good? Did you come in from 21 studios? No, no, no, um, I just I I've seen a lot of your videos and I just I was on live and I was Listening for a little while really enjoyed the conversation seemed pretty good And I just want to make a comment if I could to your guest Absolutely, absolutely. Okay I mean, I really enjoy his input and but I do have to this uh disrespectfully disagree with him a little bit About the return of the nuclear family I don't see that happening. I don't see that ever coming back I think as the norm of a nuclear family that was in the 50s I think those days are long gone because um Traditional marriage, you know, I'm sorry about this. Hold up the background noise. Um, traditional marriage required the woman to be a virgin That's how it was in the 50s, you know The husband she married was her first man and that's you know, you see it with her great grandparents Their marriages lasted till death to that part, but the statistics bear out the marriages nowadays. They're just not lasting I think it's like well that half of the marriages don't even last five years. I read somewhere And I don't see that changing. I just I just see society as a whole adapting differently Like men I could see them getting at the surrogacy having a surrogate mother to have uh To have kids, you know and just abandoning marriage altogether, but I wanted to get your opinion on that I really appreciate that comment and I think it's it's worth doing some distinctions here So the first thing I'd say is just um and and this is this is more of a nitpicky thing But I think it's important because it's used a lot the 1950s Were not the norm of relationships Ever throughout history 1950s is a very big aberration period Because you had this thing where women wouldn't do anything and they just kind of sit at home You also had exceptionally high marriage rates. You had about 90 of couples married versus the standard 80 percent which you know, so I just make that comment because I think when when we look up at the 1950s as what we would be going back to I I almost think that that in itself like Was very very tenuous. There was high rates of antidepressant usage at that time period women I think their natural state for most women is to is to work part-time And the other part of the time is with the family Um, if you had like a family farm, it was always women women worked. It was just division of labor. They worked on different things than men um, so I just want to make that point because It's not directly related to what you're saying and so we'll get into that with the nuclear family. So the nuclear family In that kind of old school capacity. I agree is Is probably gone because If you're looking at it from the lens of you know America mid-century With you know suburbia and you got like the three kids and the parents I I don't know that's going to return to something quite that that's simple, but when we look at the the complete collapse in the dating market and the divorce rates and the divorce rates being what they are for the people who even do get married This comes down to a broken attachment so people like I'll just respectfully say with the with the version stuff the version stuff was a proxy For people having secure attachment emotion being able to emotionally bond with each other and connect to that person And the fact that women have been promiscuous. It's a it's a it correlates to that but When people deal with their attachment issues Those problems stop divorces occur because people have Inability to connect with each other. They're they're too broken. They're too afraid. They're too shut down They have them, you know, they're acting on each other against each other versus with each other and What I'm seeing Is a generation of people who want to heal. That's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing a generation of people who grew up in a near dystopia And they're like They don't want what you described about, you know surrogacy and you know, world economic forums plans for us to eat bugs They don't want that. Nobody wants that and so I I'd see on a grassroots level people People are getting into all sorts of stuff and maybe it's kind of weird like body work and but everybody's trying to heal they're trying to heal themselves physically from all the You know pollution that we've been given in our food supply environmentally And they're trying to heal themselves emotionally and so I I am optimistic in that I see this turning because 10 years ago there wasn't this kind of awareness of it people were still in the Well, I don't know why things are getting worse, you know and and in the early years of the red pill That was like here's why things are getting worse, you know, like yeah, this is why I wake the fuck up, but The even many of the mainstream people are starting to get to this point where they're like Really, this is like this can't keep going on And so that's my optimistic reason that there's the spring back already beginning, but It's going to take work And not everybody's going to get there Jody has a comment here. It's funny why you guys were talking. This is one of the things actually I was thinking about Right when he said that You got to have babies and have a future This this is another really good point, which is that the people You so when we say that some aren't going to do it some are the ones who are doing it are all I won't say all but preponderance of them want to have kids and usually a lot of kids They're sort of like a desire to Okay, I'm I'm fixing my relationship and I want to have I want to expand that and a lot of them are even, you know Connecting through things like online, you know twitter whatever instagram They're even really syncing up with each other There's more and more people pulling out of the failing school systems because the counter argument, of course would be Well, you can have as many babies as you want, but they're just gonna You know take a couple of them through the brainwashing But it's important that you raise your kids with awareness of how This stuff works how they manipulate And if you if you can raise them with the awareness of that Not just tell them like oh get married and you know Like be a good citizen, you know if you actually teach them like yeah, here's how they're lying to you think about it Then you inoculate them against this kind of stuff So keep them out of the public indoctrination system Yeah, yeah, or at a minimum if you have to put them into it make sure that they're equipped to deal with What they're facing in there Like you can't just throw them in there and And expect them not to get it Yeah I went to a trade school. So yeah, all right So the original what led to this whole thing bill blast was disagreeing with the trend changing That's where we started and then that was your response to that, correct Yeah, I think that the trend is I think the trend is changing. Yeah, I just think it's getting worse Yeah, I think like as a as a younger guy from what I see Is that you're you're getting frustration on one end and you're getting apathy on another And a lot of areas where like it's like a lot of guys are like, hey, this is how it is Um, but I'm just not gonna I'm not going to fall into the common pitfalls. I've seen A lot of some people it's their fathers other people's their brothers sometimes their friends Because they've seen guys get crushed before But an issue that I see is that The majority Of like I wouldn't say majority as a large chunk of guys that are just thirsty Will Come over Like drink your beer Act like your buddy and then have a smear campaign behind your back Um, but the funny thing about it though is like that smear campaign like Actually like makes like the smear campaign actually helps you because it's like all press is good press in that kind of way But they're doing that. They're they're willing to stab you in the back Just as much they're not as cooperative as you'd say men are inherently because they're well, I guess it's like the sexual Like they're they're sexual gratification like they're not sexually gratified. So they're They're throwing you under the bus for that as like a priority over Working together with you Mm-hmm Yeah, they're in like a feminized state that they're they're actually behaving like women And they're hoping that it'll reward women Um, I mean look, I I totally understand the perspective. I I get this from people even on the macro And it's kind of like you have to look at it from depends on how you're looking at it Because look we can look at on a national level things are obviously getting worse and they're gonna get a lot worse They're gonna get a lot worse but Does that mean that the tide has has not turned if when when the tide turns it's not It's not like a pendulum. You can have an inflection point that turns you a different way You could take a corkscrew. You don't have to go up or down. You could take a new path Right exactly What I what I see is I see more people awake than ever And I see that growing at a very rapid level Yeah, I do too. I I I think what it is though too bad is a lot of times people are blinded by the circles that they're in They don't they don't tend to go outside the circle or their circle of friends or There's no stuck so they're they're used to some of these We'll call them ideologies like it's kind of the it's over theory Where it's not always over maybe change your you know change your uh, You know your direction change where you're living change a lot of things change your geography And maybe people's eyes will be open Yeah, it's it's kind of like if A building's on fire and you're one of the few people who looks at it and you're like hey the building's on fire Like we got to get people out of this building. It's on fire and nobody notices or pays attention to it And the fire is getting worse Can are you saying that when the fire then gets to a point where it's really getting intense? But now like a lot of people are like man. There's this place on fire Like I view that as progress in the sense that There are now people galvanized to do something even though the fire itself has gotten worse Yeah, for from my perspective if if we're using that analogy For me like I'd see it like there's another analogy I have it's like the herd of buffalo running off the cliff kind of thing But if we're going to use this burning building analogy, so I'd be more parallel with you I'm going to get the fuck out of that building right away, but I'm going to mark my path So if someone wants to follow it they can but if they don't Like that's like it might be hard for me If I'm like if I'm out of the building and I'm on the streets on my own it'd be better to have a team But if more people follow the path the better If not, I'm not going to Get third degree burns or die trying to pull someone out. Yeah, I don't mean that I I mean it just you you can use it that way What I mean is that people are getting out of the building like the building is going to burn like like I don't have any dispute with people about this So I think this is where people get hung up the system is going to collapse like it's 100 going to collapse. There's That is it's not going to we're not going to reverse things In that sense, but Those of us who get out of the building Then you have like, you know, we know how to build a building. We'll build a new building again And that is where we're going and that's why I'm optimistic. I don't want like I don't view it as better Five yeah now now here's another thought. Do you think that the Someone else is already built a building and they're just burning this one down. So then you move into theirs Yes, but I also think we're getting in layers of analogy here for people. Yes, I I do and I think that you know, I mean, I believe What they say which is the great reset? I mean, I know that they're burning down the system to try to create a new one I don't think most people are gonna I don't think they're gonna get the consent for people to come into their new building that's like, you know preset with Explosives or whatever for everybody. I I Believe that people have woken up By and large to the whole scheme those who are like this building's on fire. I'm getting the fuck out Most of them are not like I'm gonna go in the same people in the in this new Place that they have set up for us. So I'm an optimist. I don't believe they're they're gonna pull it off I think we're gonna see revolutions across the world in the coming years, but yeah Hi, bad. This is Mohammed. How are you going? Mohammed, let me pause you for one second because I got a 21 super chat here from David little and I just want Pat to address. Yeah, yeah, show go What steps do I take as a 40 year old man break the nice guy talk with women? I have trouble communicating desire for them um so What I would say is that It I would I would ask what kind of stuff do you say to them right now? Like what is what is the kind of nice guy? What kind of nice guy play cane talk are you doing at the moment? I think it's important to push the line Like it's kind of like ripping a mandate off um Telling a woman how you feel about them Even if it's done in a really like I think you're you know, I wanted to Ask you out. I think you're cute It's like kind of cringy maybe if you say it the wrong way But even just doing that And like maybe trying to to move things forward with a girl Telling her you find her attractive It may come across in a very awkward way, but I think a lot of it's just like you've just got to get You just got to break out of like I can't say anything that's going to offend her I can't say anything that's going to affect her negatively like when I was breaking myself out of that programming You you know Honestly, one of the popular methods is to Just be really cocky You know the cocky funny method that David D'Angelo had back in the day to really just Act kind of like a bit of an asshole around women And just talk yourself up and it It's not like clean But it can start to you'll start to see women respond to you to some degree differently and I'm looking a little bit into this to where I think when I see this question, I tend to think a little bit that He might be afraid of rejection, which is you really have to be okay with that Ultimately, yeah Yeah, Pat, do you think that's good advice though for David because if there's no physical attraction Let's just say with the woman couldn't that come across as being kind of a little bit creaky creepy and offensive Well, I would imagine. No, I get that I get that but I think that if a woman's talking to him I'm gonna go ahead and say that the attraction is already there. I think he's having a problem Communicating the desire back. That's the way I'm taking this question. I mean, we're all I think yeah, because I think you know, we can all kind of agree that if attraction Isn't there like a lot of times it's just a waste of time and then again for somebody You know, I don't know like David might just be it might be practice and getting used to Getting a rejection and moving on. That's just my opinion. I'm not the expert here No, yeah, I mean what you said is completely correct, Tony It's really just it's a matter of having to put yourself intense in situations with tension like I don't if if if it's not in the context you're talking about Tony and David this is about him. He sees it. He's at a bar and he sees an attractive woman there I mean, but he just can't stop doing, you know, nice guy talk with her Going and doing a direct opener will break some of the ice there in that context Now, maybe you don't want to be as direct in another place I'm not saying it's going to be effective, but the big thing here is the mental block Around well, what if she's what if she rejects me like you just have to get tired of You have to get tired of being so controlled by Rejection like when I broke out of it I started to act. I just started to act more cocky around women started to act like a little bit of an asshole and I crossed lines And then I tracked back But it was always better to cross lines and be more forward And tease the girls mess with them than it was mess with them too much And get a reputation for being an asshole. It felt better to be an asshole than it felt to be like, you know lukewarm So then you find the middle But I never had to do that in my life. My experience was if there was attraction There was like no tension at all. It came very very smooth and easy for me And I think it was because of the girl Relieved with the tension. It wasn't me doing something. They're having confidence. It was she giving me confidence because of attraction I mean that's just been my experience I didn't have to play any games or mind games with the girl, you know, she just yeah, I concur I concur with that I want to respond to 21 studios here real quick. Yeah, let me just respond to that So what you're saying is don't send a dick pic right off the bat Don't send dick pic unless your dick is huge That's funny Yeah, there's an old clip so Okay, so I shouldn't just whip it out right now right here Open open forum right here. Tony's gonna block it. Yeah. Got the guard on Let me um, let me bring on goss. I'm I'm sure this is goss. I don't think anybody's gonna rip him off Hey, what's up, man? What's up? How's it going guys? Good good to have you on my man Yeah, so I want to go I want to go back. Welcome to the panel goss and good to see you again I want to go to uh, I guess let's go to muhammad then we'll go to watch her because they've been on for a while So we'll go to muhammad. So yeah, pat. Thanks. Tony. Hello everybody. Been been a while. I was busy Yeah, so so pat first first of thing I want to commend you and thank you for is that you didn't get on a tirade of You know, you know Hating women or batting them down. It was fantastic. It's kept all the discussion very very sane and decent and civic And civilized and that's the first step required to actually make and introduce a change. So that's fantastic and thanks for that And yeah, so look, I think the so I'm originally from Pakistan and I live in australia now We've been in australia since 2008 and the first thing that struck me was That this society the western civilization actually hates and demonizes its own men and that was really bizarre that how we here Say men are evil period. Every man is evil to begin with So and the response to that is I talked to people is that And what I observe is that men are actually backing off from entering into relationships gradually and today I see many more men like that than I used to see 10 years ago You know long time ago. So that's that change is definitely happening And the other thing I draw everybody's attention and perhaps yours too if you don't mind is that I ask this question Hey, look around yourself in usa in an australian western civilization and see where are various family units still intact And the only parts of society in west where your family unit is still intact Are this are the groups which are still steeped in their religious values and the prime example in us would be And it's an it's a reductuous and absurdum example, but it is the amish But in australia, we've got plymouth brethren who are not as You know traditional riding horse buggies and all that stuff. So they subscribe to all the latest stuff, but they they they Stick to their religious code well and their families are very much intact And the reason feminism is definitely I I actually every tell everybody Feminism hasn't changed women it has allowed them to manifest their true female nature Which is rooted in fear They act through fear and there's nothing wrong with it But it is it is kind of nature and a man comes close to that kind of fear is if you're walking by yourself At 10 30 p.m in a dark alley and there's a group of thugs And imagine and you fear or what they could do to me and you change your path And that is the kind of perpetual fear women live 24 7 And that's when we taste it. So I think it's it is what it is As you said the building is burning and it is progressing the process is proceeding And people are making their choices and whatever is going to happen is inevitable. Yeah, so yeah Very good comments very good comments Was well, did you have a specific question in mind with it? Oh, no, no, I just wanted to thank you for a fantastic Conversation because a lot of people when we do discussion There's a tendency to start, you know bashing women as a as a whole gender and we could do that with men too But then how are we any different from as compared to feminist? So, you know, that's that's what my Thing was. Yeah, so thank you very much Thank you for the the kind of words Muhammad I will make a just a quick comment with the with the religious stuff I think it's it's very true that the religious groups in particular have been the most You know immune to this stuff and I think a lot of it's because Of the precepts in religion And also the closer sense of community The only thing I'll say is that unless The the family is is raising them with a real awareness of like Okay, I'll input this this way a lot of religious families have ended up losing against the machine because they've not They've maybe lived out some degree of the precepts, but they haven't been able to explain or defend them and I think it's important for like religious communities to explain the why to children because If they don't have the why then They take it for granted And they gradually lose it if not immediately the next generation loses it so That's what I think that the big weak spot is you had all these conservatives who just didn't know Really how insidious, you know, it could twist people Absolutely could not agree more. Thank you very much Yeah, let's go to a watcher watcher. You've been on for a while. You got any questions or comments for path? Watcher you're still there? Yeah, sure. So hey pat. Thanks for all your great comments great content um What I wanted to Ask you was that. Oh, yeah So he shall he's who shall not be named. I agree with what he said. We need more white babies We need a truckload of white babies um, but um, I I recently released a video and I called it My attempt at a serious apology to feminists now before you guys think I went crazy and just became a feminist I need to put some context as to what I meant by that so literally, um, there there was a time during my like red pill journey where I just had red pill rage And I basically had this idea that, you know, all women, you know, they're basically just, you know Sex factories and they should just be used But then when I came out of my red pill rage, I kind of thought about what the feminists were saying and that is that You know that that they're people they have personalities. They have quirks. They have idiosyncrasies, you know They have gifts and different things like that and so that was what my whole video was about that Although I disagree with the feminists and how far they went. I kind of see what they were saying that that that, you know, women Should be treated as people. So I guess what I wanted to ask you was Was my video Like right minded or was it wrong or something along those lines? Yeah, well, base. I mean, I haven't seen your video but based on your depiction of it, um every Every movement comes from It comes from a kernel of truth. I mean, maybe not even a kernel. Maybe like a very real truth right, I mean And a lot of how these people conduct in the past at least they've conducted the psychological operations has been to take legitimate grievances and then amplify them and you know Basically direct them in in ways that that don't get things solved. So I you know And that's actually and it creates a good rhetorical defense because you can say well, oh, you're not a feminist you don't Believe that, you know, women are people you don't believe that women, you know So it it's like, well, no, I do agree with that. Okay. Well, then you're a feminist It's like no, I'm not it's not a fucking communist because it means more than that But you know, that's how they'll do these rhetorical traps. So I I agree with what you're What what you were saying in the video and I think where we get out of this is really recognizing that The humanity really it sounds so like Like it's kind of lame to say it but we really do need to have A level of we have to have compassion for ourselves For men what men go through we also have to have compassion for women and what women go through Absolutely, you know, and if we can't do that, we're never going to have healthy relationships and then we will indeed never get to a society that Has any kind of remotely healthy relationships in it Sounds good. Yeah, yeah Yeah, you guys um Check out effect, uh real quick check out. Of course pat steadman's channel. I've got a link link below I've got a link for the vital message down below also check him out. It does a lot of great interviews Check out watcher metron mobius Okay, check out his channel. He's got a couple videos I promoted one of his videos here this past week and uh, I see it had quite a jump in In views which I'm glad and I'm just gonna just gonna throw this out there real quick that I'm gonna say that He's mark safe We'll just leave it at that so check out watcher metron mobius. He's got some good videos on there. Subscribe to his channel also Uh pat quick comment too. You said something about movement So eric hoffer in his book the temper of our time said every great cause Begins as a movement becomes a business and eventually degenerates into a racket and that's so true So you you pointed out very correctly that there's a kernel of truth in every Movement but then eventually it becomes the evil that we hate. So yeah, that's what's happening Very good comment. Very good comment Yeah, I I have like kind of a I kind of look at the political system stuff like that like what Especially with politics there. I kind of see it as like We're in the oligarchy where the vote is something that divides us to point fingers at each other for what? Restricted policy comes in whether it's marketed as Um conservative or or uh liberal they often like kind of pull in similar directions in the long term And with that whenever someone tells me their political beliefs I just say okay, but in the back of my mind I have more of the I'm more of like the office space mindset That seamer is like so what do you do here because I think the actions are really what make impacts within your community A local maybe your state or even on a national level. What are you actually doing to influence your world? That's kind of the questions. I'm more figuring out Are relevant whether I'm talking to business people. I want to be friends with business partners um Like girlfriends I find that that'd be a lot more relevant than whether they voted on a certain policy or for a certain politician Yeah, I would agree with that entirely. I mean, it's you know the famous Gandhi quote be the change you want to see in the world Uh, it's it is really how how you behave how you treat people how you treat yourself And then that emanates outwards And what I see happening is a lot of these conversations that start online They start to pool in you know eventually gets to first off, you know, you have some people who meet online and actually move to locations But a lot of it's just that it hits a critical mass online that within most communities you're able to find other like-minded people and things start to happen on a very Decentralized level. I think that actually we're moving away from Centralization towards decentralization. Yeah, there's one group that's trying to centralize everything literally everything But I think the the cross current to that while they're trying to do that everything's You know spreading out Away from their grasp. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just I just see it as like Whether you see whether you predict more restriction more control or less centralization Uh, no matter what you predict you're not really gonna Change much at the ballot box for at least based on my prognosis. You got to actually Do some work you got to do some work and and make the make the place because Just basic entropy like the world's moving into disorder on naturally it takes a lot of work and effort to To build anything and have it stay together So, well, right. I mean even even with voting not that I'm anti voting or anything, but Even with voting. I mean, they're still like I'm outsourcing this stuff to This politician to fix. I mean that's kind of the problem that we've gotten into is that We're not taking responsibility for our own lives our own communities Um, so yeah a hundred percent Yeah, I want to welcome grover and the tip network another good channel. You guys follow grover. Good to have you man Thank you very much. It's uh, it's nice to jump on and actually just really enjoying the conversation Good any any input or questions for pat? Uh, well one thing that I I really that really caught my caught my attention that pat said is that especially what What the religious community the most important thing is the why? Uh, and I want to agree with agree with him 100 percent. Um, and this is what I mean I grew up in a deeply southern baptist family Uh east texas fire and brimstone in church I don't know six seven hours eight hours a week, uh And it can be a task just to sit there and you just okay, so I'm just being told something but As I got older and I started understanding the why and things happen and why that maybe we had these values Why uh, we had these traditional roles? Uh, why some of the stuff that was coming against me that I seen was actually there It made it very easy for me to stay on my square and keep to my keep to the values that was put into me Right and please do not believe that I did not stray I was the I was the worst of the worst for a while But I was able to come back because I I kind of understood what was going on And I think a lot of times when you get away from that and you say, okay, for instance, uh I don't think that there's any uh religious Institution or a religious person in my family that would say that they agree with the way things are going now What it would in case of feminism in the case that the family's being broken up with the case especially, uh, Especially in the community that I'm a part of like families falling apart and And uh, the abortion rate is just ridiculous That wouldn't happen right and nobody is saying that but because we don't have the why in place It's kind of like well, you're just talking at me and not talking to me So I just wanted to give a compliment of the path because very few people I've heard with that position has really wanted to go with the why And just focus on well, don't do this because but no because isn't a why A why is what it actually means to me and how it's going to actually enrich my life to live like this because Is punitive? Don't do it because you go to hell. Don't do this because House I'll whip your ass. I mean that's how it was when I was a kid I will take this switch and tan your ass with it Don't do that right and so that that's just something that I wanted to I wanted to if I would chime in with anything, you know Excuse my tardiness. I would I would chime in with that Thanks for that grover. I've got to boot somebody nice try that we we have a fake peg bell. Yeah, I know it's not you peg I checked that yeah, you got pegged bell Not peg bell Oh, it was a good try whoever you are. So uh, he's Grover thanks. Thanks for that. Thanks for the comment. Um, I want to go to goss next goss have been quiet Before before we go to goss. Can you just choose peg bell? Well peg peg is one of our normals. Um, okay, all right, it's not here and and we we She's a mod because we get so many like Fakers and guys saying stuff to her and so I monitor so she can she can bounce anybody she wants Yeah, so you know, you don't have to find hilarious those the guys who flash like before you even let them on the stream Yeah, I know. Yeah, like like we can't see it already Well, most of the time we actually can't see it. So it's not worth flashing Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, like at least At least like get a little blood flow there first, you know, exactly at least like you might as well You got to commit if you're gonna do it. Yeah So if you guys are new watching from 21 we get it when I open up the panel, we get a lot of trolls So but we uh, that's why I got to be very careful. So I just I had a feeling that wasn't peg. That's why My top Yeah, you're not gonna pull one over on me boy I was hey, but if they're if they're pretending to be peg bell That means that they're kind of a super fan because that's kind of a an ditch person to Exactly and I see her on your streams also. So yeah, yeah So but uh, yeah, let me go to goss goss. Uh, you've been sitting there a while any comments questions Yeah, I have a question for pats and if you addressed this earlier because I'm like two hours and late Then uh, you could just say that um But outside of the the kernel of truth that was in the beginning of feminism um What because I think the the outcomes are that we don't like are pretty obvious The breakdown of the family etc and all the things that are going wrong in society but I'm curious about the inputs and I'm curious as to outside of the the kernel of truth and feminism What would the ideal feminism look like for pat? Well I'll answer the question a little bit of a different way because I don't I don't like really any of these isms I think I like My whole big thing is consciousness So I'm probably losing people with this, but I'll just go into it. Anyway The the benefit of everything that we're going through right now is that We're able to really I think see ourselves for who we really are. We're seeing the underbelly of everything, you know kind of in in relation to that What we're talking about with religious communities how they don't really explain the why I think that we forgot a long time ago The why about Why men are men and why women are women? And I think by going through all this process this collapse we're having women and men being able to really experience the The pain of separation the depolarization And I think when you come out the other end of that Those who make it through I think are going to come out of it with a very integrated sense of self So they're going to understand what it's really like to be a man But they're also Going to it's it's not going to be some sort of rigid You know, this is what it's like to be a man But just because it's it's what it's like to be a man It's going to be a really earned experience And I think it's going to be it's going to come with a lot of wisdom And so that's another reason that i'm super optimistic So the kind of feminism that I would you know, like to see I would like to see women who have really strong senses of self Who are also able to surrender to men And not just any man, but they they know they have enough of their inner feminine wisdom to be able to Surrender to A guy who is who they can see is a is a is a true man um A lot of women are super detached from that today. I mean day naps are a great example of how You know, you you could you could look at that and you could see that women are just terrible at picking men You know, because That's what they've been doing right through the current Lens and I think women Are I I eavesdrop on you know, these very Aware feminine circles and women are really they're starting to they're slower than men to the punch with it But they're starting to understand themselves And how they really harm themselves and so that would be my kind of Whatever feminism that is at the end where you have these integrated men and women so But um, do you have any any opinions about not not just interpersonal relationships? but the broader society in terms of working And their broader roles and education and so on and so forth. Yeah, I did I talked about this a little bit earlier I mean I I don't Like I could give some sort of like theory About this would if I if I you know Had a magic pen and I could Organize society in a certain way what I what I not allow women to do this what I allow them to do this I actually don't It's to kind of go back to what I was saying before I I don't really believe in Like these kind of heavy structures What I want is I want people to have the level of consciousness and awareness that Like a woman I don't have to say that a woman a woman can't do this kind of job or that this is what they have to do Because a woman will naturally know that this is not what she wants to do And so she won't do it now that may sound kind of utopian. I totally get it I totally get it, but I think that consciousness is is a real game here. Otherwise You know, we just end up going back to where we were before and maybe we do but What comes after this I think is going to be a very Very enlightened society. It's going to be maybe diminished But I think the people who survive this are going to be people who You know They're going to inherit the world and they're going to pass on the lessons, you know at the end of the day It's just evolution It may be when you said that you weren't a fan of the rigid structures and stuff like that. Like it may be think that even if you impose more of that structure The behaviors find a way and I may be thinking like Jeff Goldblum going like life finds a way Okay, stop No 100 caduceus. I mean look I I tend to take this very like 100,000 view, you know View of things but the reason I mentioned the 1950s is that okay well In that maybe we should be cautious about putting it on this pedestal is that It provoked a reaction, you know, there was a real you can't enforce Over a long period of time things that maybe aren't To human nature. I don't think that the 1950s were like women were not being put Like women just being pretty things who stayed at home and you know You know took care of kids and And sat around All day. Yeah, they could how many dudes that got cupped without knowing it. Oh my god. That's how we got the milkman meme Yeah You know, I mean it's it's not how how it was meant to be and you know Women were used to having broader communities around them and having all sorts of little No random jobs on the farm or the family business They like to be useful. So, yeah, I don't think that any sort of force works It works for a short amount of time And then people react to it And then when they react to it the reactions are often worse And then that's kind of how we got into this mess is like reacting to reactions Back and forth back and forth back and forth. So I'd like to educate, you know, let's let's let people Let's let people What did mr. 1950 say, Tony? Like it's it's funny because the guy's named mr. 1950 Tony Tony knows it. What is this? What is this? Yeah, that's I'm trying to remember right now Yeah, it was it was a dude on tony stream about like I think I like about a little less than a year ago Who's saying that his name his name was actually mr. 1950s. I control the women Yeah, and that's um, that's where I came up with weak men control strong men lead I really like the way that sounds. You know, because nobody really wants to be controlled Um, so, you know, again, I came up with that. I think I'm the only one that said that but yeah It's a pretty good one. I I kind of go with the Machiavelli like be feared but not loathed Yeah, I like yeah Yeah I do um, I do want to give a quick shout out to uh To md and his new book. I see that's out and I watched it. I'm gonna get this It's called nightmare on sperm street. It is the sperm book So you guys check that out on amazon. I know I've talked to him quite frequently He's put a lot of work in on this book. So let's uh, it's it's 999. I mean he prices his books Really inexpensive. So check it out. It's all about basically sperm wars and what it does to women So check out this book. I know he put in a lot of work on it. So check it out I'll even drop the link in the uh in the uh video description So everybody can check it out. But I noticed that about uh about six hours ago I didn't want to give him a shout out for the time he put into that book. So I'm sure it's going to be an incredible read I can't wait to get it myself. So but um, it might only be on uh, I don't know if it's just on kindle yet I don't know. It might be only on kindle. Let me see Um, it's it's a lot more work to get your book in hard copy Yeah, I'm sure he'll have a promo to explain it Yeah, so but yeah, check it out. And uh, I guess it's on kindle right now I'm not sure but that's what it looks like. But yeah, check out uh, check out his new book and for sure. So but um Yeah, we're gonna start wrapping it up. Is there um, I guess I'll go around the whole panel here I want to start with grover and the tip network Uh, thank you for having me come up and once again, I apologize for Yeah I would just say that like I think that there's a lot of a lot of truth to be said that things happen for a reason And we happen to go through this very uncomfortable time so we can realize how things should be Uh, so I look at this time right now even though it's a natural it feels is that maybe it's just kind of like Teenage years when you're awkward things just aren't fitting right as far as relationships go between men and women I mean, I'm lucky. You know, I'm probably one of the few guys on a On a panel who are actually married and happy to be married and people always, you know Say something's wrong with me or something like that, but I'm you know, I'm living a good life But I would say that you know only to understanding yourself having yourself centered and having Proper roles in your house that you can actually have a happy A happy existence for for all parties of all And I think that uh, I wouldn't have been able to do that at like 25 or 24 years old But at the age I can't now I'm more able to do that and and you know Stand up and you know be the person I am I think that maybe society is going through that. I mean, we have all these crazy stuff like dating apps and access to everything. I mean when I was young to watch a Watch a See see see some uh Some dirty movies. I had to like sneak to the store grab it hide from my dad Hope he didn't find out my dad wouldn't have beat me for it. He would have just made fun of me That's worse, you know, I couldn't let my mom see if she would beat me for Had to hide it from a hide to hide it from a big cousin because they'd steal it from me, you know Because he would snitch me off to my dad and everybody else So we had to go through all of these things Just to get just a little dirt and now you just pick your phone And so to this access we've corrupted ourselves and I think that eventually will realize that you know, uh, Maybe that scarcity that we could have that was good Maybe it was good that you had to like sneak around to do it because you knew that it wasn't natural to just have it all the time I think the dating apps and the access to people all over the world is the same thing Uh, maybe I'm a you know, I may sound old-fashioned when I say that but I think that sometimes Some of the things that happened in the old days were right, you know Not 100 but some of the things were right I do understand what pat was saying that like we got to understand that whatever happened that did cause this reaction I mean, it's just like celebrating the end of world war one but not understanding that how you ended world war one started world war two You know, so you have to learn from the past and fix it or we're just going to keep repeating Uh, and but that's growth. That's growth. That's people. I mean as a nation we're a couple hundred years old So, you know, I think a lot of times we We we don't understand that sort of things that maybe some folks figured out we were just going through So, uh, you know, uh, also I want to say, Tony, I've been trying to get on the stream and talk to you for a minute. So thank you I keep this up for letting me come on man. I appreciate it and everybody subscribe and all you guys that Watching at 21 studios right now check out grover and the tip network for sure Man, it's a lot of sarcasm on the tip network A lot of sarcasm a little self-improvement a lot of sarcasm. It's it's it's tough man. It is. It's a it's a good channel, man I appreciate it. I also like to say uh, hello the caduceus. I was having spoke to you for a while. So Oh, good to hear from you man Yeah, and uh, I'm actually gonna I'm actually gonna skip off because uh, I'm an old man. I need to go to sleep We're coming on grover appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate all of you. Thank you very much. I have a have a nice evening You too. Thank you And let's go to uh, let's go to watch her If you're still there any final words You're on mute if you don't know Man might be snoozing who knows we'll go to uh, mohammed next Oh, yeah Hi, everyone body again great great chat back. Thank you for coming on and I second Like not just on a religious level at every level We have to repeat what we have lost in terms of morals and Feynman Phrase it really well that why repeat all this and that's because They are new generations born every day and because they are great ideas Developed in the history of man and these ideas do not last unless they are passed Purposely and clearly from one generation to the next generation And that is I think our biggest duty to the truth which you are doing. Tony's doing I hope we are all doing and that's fantastic thing to do. Thank you very much Thanks, mohammed. I'll go to gas Well, I would say, uh, thanks, Tony Thanks pat for answering my question And um, I I'm late to the party. I'll definitely Catch the whole thing later And um, yeah, it was a very interesting discussion and it's a discussion that needs to be had Because these outcomes are are not sustainable Thank you guys appreciate you coming on and good talking to you again. We'll go to the vital message. Caduceus Thanks for having me on Tony And thank you 21 studios for mirroring this stream And pat stephen for being the special guest as well as anyone else that hopped on the panel along the way I think it's great that we have a few spaces on the internet where we can compare notes so we can become better as long as like As long as we're enhancing our own lives I think that's a positive note. And if you could if it maybe I save you like One or two seconds with my personal experience um That I would be satisfied to hear about that but that everyone here is empowered to make a positive change in their life and maybe Ideas that were spitball here can get the ball rolling for you Thank you fellas. Yeah, and uh, subscribe to the vital message you guys I know I got a link in the description of the video. So check him out for sure He's got a lot of good interviews on there. And we'll go to pat steadman the guest of honor tonight Well, Tony, I want to appreciate and thank you and said my appreciation for having me on and you know, caduceus mohammed goss Mobius grover everybody who who jumped on really really just great questions. I appreciate his really constructive discussion feminism's a hot topic, but I really feel like This one in particular was really it was good. I don't think we really got into the weeds and um My my last comments here are really just to reiterate what I what I've said at the very end about about consciousness and awareness And you know as technology continues to grow We're you know to what grover was saying You have porn at your fingertips like the the number of vices that will grow and ensnare people Uh the number of ways that we can be twisted And to to to escape from ourselves It's just growing. It's growing and The only way to deal with that world is to Change how you perceive reality change how you your own awareness of reality and You know this conversation began about feminism and you know, we've talked about the 1950s and and The backlash there, but The reality is that a lot of the initial feminist movement even though it was obviously designed to You know lead to the destruction of the family and all sorts of things What it preyed upon was a lot of women waking up to the fact that they weren't happy With the connection that they were getting in their relationships And that they weren't happy with the role that they were being forced to play because they didn't have this connection They didn't they were felt like they had to do something and so We can see that all this collapse has been one big exploration And my hope is that everybody here rather than get resentful over it be very grateful As much as you can summon gratitude in this situation For the fact that you can now Understand how things really work. You're able to accrue understanding of reality firsthand and Use it grow from it. Don't fall into negativity. Don't fall into despair about this those of you who are able to to take these lessons and build from them You're going to have a fantastic life regardless of where you are right now because We will get through this. I by firmly believe it. We will get through it and there will be women who want to get through it too so Well, thanks pat for spending time tonight, man. You know, I always look forward to you coming on Always always great conversation and great back and forth with with the panel every time, you know I nobody gets offended here and I like that, you know, we're gonna have some good conversations All you guys that are watching and guys and gals watching from 21 studios check out my channel It's a t 21 surfer. I'm sure if you look in the description of the video Even on 21 studios, you can find me there. You can find pretty much everybody that's been on Most everybody that's been on the panel I got links for everybody again. I want to congratulate 21 studios of 400 000 subs today So congratulations, anthony johnson. Good job. Keep it up And again, you guys come in come to the 21 convention and meet pat Meet a lot of the guys man. Um, again, I got a coupon code It's you can click on the link description of the video or just if you buy your ticket You can get 150 off just tony 150. That's all you got to do get a quick 150 off your ticket So I'd love to meet some of these guys that I see in the chat and on the panel So, you know come on out and uh, and you know get into real life, man It's a riot you guys will you won't regret it. I'll just put it that way. It's a really good time So it really is amazing time down there really amazing time Yeah, yeah again, like I said come and meet pat man, you know hang out. We have dinner drinks It's a good time. So come and check it out again 21 studios. Thanks for hosting us And also check out. I had a stream last week with dr. Sean smith incredible stream It's uh, it was called after the disaster. So, you know, the breakup divorce in fact I think it was ultra testosterone was talking about Anti-depressants. We had a little segment in there where we talked about ssri's with sean smith Real great segment but check out sean smith. That was the last thursday night, but You guys on 21. This was your thursday night reality check And i'm sure you're gonna see more of us on 21 studios, but uh, I appreciate all the new faces and all the regulars And uh, hope everybody has a really really good evening. I'm gonna go ahead and just uh I'm gonna play us out with this and we'll call it a night again appreciate everybody and your time And uh, I'll see you guys at 21 convention. Cheers. Have a good evening. Cheers