 In addition of human-humane architecture we're up here in the academic hills, we're in the east-west center, I'm Pays building, and we are at a conference at a symposium that's called the second Germany Hawaii Clean Energy Symposium and we snap one of the keynote speakers here who come all the way where I come from from Germany and to share with us something that is a shared passion with Martin as Jay who is here as well says Martin that's what you've been dreaming about for a while but now we're bringing someone in who is a little bit more professional in Martin and it's actually perfected that to professionalism and we're going to talk about what I call cargo courtyard cabanas in my way of calling things and we're basically basing it upon this book here which I call the Bible of something that you can make a housing out of what we today tracing back to the Soto Brown who gave the opening keynote speak he called it an abundant post-contact building material here on the island and we have Maximilian Sides here and we have Connie Kwan here and they're both emerging experts in making this become reality on our scarcity of resources island here so we start out with with max thank you for being here and tell us your exciting story how you sort of professionalize the architecture out of shipping containers thank you very much for the kind introduction Martin and Connie thank you very much for being here so it's amazing being here it's just arriving yesterday and it's my first time here and when I arrived here I saw all these shipping containers and then you know it gave me such a great feeling about being here and I think we're doing the right thing let's take a step back what do we do who do we are and what's been driving us for the last couple of years so to introduce our company and I'm speaking on behalf of container work and my business partners is we've been we are developers designers forward thinkers and entrepreneurs so we we've been trying to find a solution for the housing market for the housing market Europe that's facing the same problems as the use housing market we've been looking for an innovative sustainable and and affordable housing solution over the last couple of six the last couple of years so what what does that mean and you know like what's been driving the market let's take a step back and you know like when we look at the use housing market their major challenges that this housing market is facing right now let's just figure out like two or three points first of all I want to talk about the issue about sustainability sustainability you know people ask themselves isn't there anything out there which is kind of sustainable they are looking for cream and sustainable solutions and the use housing market the housing market in general you know you build houses as you did 30 40 50 years ago so it's a very antique in classic ways it's not really sustainable second of all it's all about affordability I personally live in New York and in New York you know people spend 50% of the wages for rent you can imagine this is a huge problem private debt is at all-time high in the United States this shouldn't be the case right and another point I'd like to figure out and Connie is you know part of that generation as well you bitch you all I'm very sorry about that but it's the point that people like they have a different design when it comes to how I'm the generation of millennia people don't want to want to don't want to own they want to share you know they are all these companies like early common go quarters out there that offer shared apartments where you're in there for two three months and then you move on you move to another city you know it's not about you know credit worthiness again or like you know like it's about being flexible flexibility this is what's driving and the US housing market hasn't been reacting to all of that so I think we found a solution so what do we do we take used shipping containers that have been used for years for transportation we take them from the harbor and we convert them in a unique way what does that mean so my business partners in Germany they've been working for the last six years on an automated serial process how to insulate them so we take the used shipping containers which is very sustainable so we take a product that has been used for years we bring it to the top production side which is right now in a lesson bar in Germany close to the Dutch border and we bring them in there it's getting into a street we call this street and it's going to be insulated by machine the beautiful thing about that process is that the insulation is very thin so the insulation is just four inches thick so we can convert a single shipping container into a single apartment unit most of the competitors have the lack of that serial product process so the insulation is very thick so they have to remove the walls which you're destroying the product you're destroying the container so it's not stackable anymore it's not serial which is very different so we can use that single container after the insulation takes place we are putting all the furniture in there we're talking about beautiful bathrooms beautiful kitchens and and that finish it the finish of the most beautiful quality very European very lovely straight to the point so when it comes to we are by doing so we're solving a problem in the US we have a problem of you know we have a lack of construction workers you might have a property and you might have close on that property but you cannot find GC's nobody's building anything anymore so we can produce in the middle of nowhere in Germany for very remote areas and we just you know we insulate them we furnish them we put them on the railroad and it's getting somewhere in the desert so which is kind of unique and this is like how we can fight that housing problem so we really do like that a lot when it comes to the the you might be asking yourself how is that insulation you know it's a monolithic insulation that means the heating comes from the bottom the cooling comes from the top so there's no terminal bridge which is kind of a unique feeling for the guests visiting that room is a bit cold it could be a bit more cozy you know what I'm saying you some of the buildings here in Hawaii they have these old HVAC systems so you don't have that second of all the sound is you know you don't hear the neighbors we put a container and next to the highway in Germany and you don't hear the trucks out there which is kind of very high standard so the insulation makes the quality insane a single we use 40 feet containers of now we think about using 20 feet in the future we talk about roughly 300 square feet you could modify them so you have a porch for example right little terrace you sit outside enjoy a glass of wine you know that's lovely as of now we when it comes to the different sizes we use basically we either leave a 40 foot container by itself or we combine to so you double the interior feeling if you're in that the big one you don't even would realize that you're in a shipping container so we do that basically we do that for the B2B market so by saying that we don't deliver a single container into your backyard the beauty about that serial process is that you can deliver 50 40 100 but the beauty comes with a mass production what we really do like as well and we put a lot of effort in offering the most beautiful finishes so we have bathrooms provided by you know a lot of German companies like the German like appliances like Bosch you know like that that's in there when it comes to the kitchen so the quality is very lovely so I've been the last couple of weeks you know in months I've been traveling the country and I've been taking a look for example at student housing at dorms they've been building the 50s in the 60s you know you get to one of these Ivy League universities and you sleep in a horrible dorm all right so we think this should change you know we really put a lot of effort in there and you know I think it looks pretty cool and if you see the pictures out there you should check it it really looks amazing so thank you for that first introduction to your it seems logic that while you know our dear friend Hans Lave who's the author of the book has been a pioneer of all these sort of you know once these entrepreneurs who have started to basically do one off projects you know how to basically convert the shipping container but you're doing it sort of in within the genetic code of a shipping container because the shipping container in itself is a mass produced thing that's automated right everything is brought to perfection as far as efficiency and effectiveness so you're just sort of along these lines right we want to share with you a little bit from our side how sympathetic we are but also sort of learning from each other and I should say you know we did a walking tour yesterday through kakaako you had a great chat with Bob Oda from Kamehameha schools and in there so our kakaako where your system seems to fit in we have transit oriented developments and you probably go up in the range of what you're doing because you can stack containers up to eight on a ship and so that's like the max you can go to but we're a little bit as a university we have a little bit of a different other extreme sort of pitch because we're when you talk about you know finest finishes and appliances and Germans we have some people here out on the street who can't even think about having a kitchen at all so I would like to pass on the microphone now to Connie and explain a little bit what we're working on currently in school here in our studio together so and if we can get slide 23 for that thank you Martin yeah so our studio project this fall mostly is focused on like low income shipping containers and where it's located in the CTAHR research center in Waimanalo and what we're basically trying to do is how can you do the most with the lease so using the shipping containers already available in Hawaii we we want to use like the doors and like kind of create like an extra space so I'm using the shipping container doors and if you like align two of them together you can create like two spaces in one if you like close up the doors and with the doors closed you'll on the east and west side we're thinking about adding like vertical louvers so you'd have like natural ventilation as well and if we've faced all the shipping containers having them south-facing and having like the center part cut out sorry I lost my train of thought facing north that cut out yeah facing north it creates a lovely like outdoor space as well and having them all south-facing we could add like a green wall and also add like a green roof as well since the CTAHR research center it does a lot of research on like plants very good so that's like the extreme minimal existence sort of version of that as like you know with cars you can buy a rabbit you know in the most you know simple sort of you know version and then you can go to a little bit bigger engine you could go to the GTI which is the fancy and you got the leather seats so you can go so we're basically covering the entry level which we have a lot of entry level people here increasingly and I also want to explain on behalf of Bundit my dear esteemed colleague here being the most ambitious and successful critical practicing architect on the island he's currently working with a school and this is slide number 24 if we can get that up this is his early sort of pre schematic design for using shipping containers as to improve you know situations in our educational realm here and again I think that the key is what I like about all what we're doing in our different realms that we basically keep the integrity of a shipping container many projects try to sort of demise and ignore and neglect and transform them into houses but if I like this combines us as different as we are but we all believe we're proud of shipping containers right we're like we love them we think they're great they're just like large-scale building modules like huge Legos that we can basically inhabit if that's sort of correct to say and if we can get a slight number of 25 that is an urban version that we propose again as to stack how many as they're on ships and this is a version sort of a tropicalized version where we say instead of maybe insulating it from the on the inside which basically helps a lot for cold climates but in warm climates as we know what's sufficient is to put a head on so if you put a head on we propose a sunscreen out of reclaimed albicia woods so there's so many sort of variations to a theme and I think it's totally exciting to how we can basically inspire each other bounce of ideas have you come here and share sort of your experience and we share a little bit of ours and then somehow merge I also want to say that you just got approached by chief sock from the Honolulu fire department who was extremely excited they want to build like a training facility and he's saying well that's all we would need right so there's a lot of potential here definitely and we want to have the the last slide here number 26 is referring to our every other week co-host to Soto Brown who went into his archives and found out that you're building on a island's tradition because the first shipping containers in the United States were shipped in 1956 and only two years later and that was from New York City to use I believe and two years later our innovative island picked up on that and medicine containers started with the first shipping in the Pacific so this is this is an indigenous we're talking post-contact construction material so you're sort of right on yeah and so with that maybe you want to touch on a couple more things to basically phase out but I don't know if there's anything else you want to get the message across max yeah when I was like just to catch on your point is like when I came here and I saw these shipping containers on the way to the University from the airport I was like they really fit here you know they really fit to Hawaii and it makes a lot of sense you know to do something probably hopefully with you guys as well maybe you know we come up in you know in we thought about it to come up with a more affordable solution as well you know we're just probably just provide the insulation and then you can include local people here that do the finishing out in the Hawaiian style all right we what we are doing as well as we're doing we're working on office solutions so it doesn't have to be residential I just think that this is a lovely a lovely way how to even like come up with a very innovative products we are just finishing a hotel in the middle of the jungle in Costa Rica and imagine you're living in the middle of the jungle and you're staying in the hotel there but you have you know a German layer and German finishes that's lovely so we could probably do something here as well yeah yeah or a German beer garden yeah exactly and if the camera could would turn around we're in a jungle here right now I mean that's all the middle of our island is basically a jungle yeah which is also a great potential for keeping the container is cool because in a jungle it's always cool right so we got the shading already through the vegetation I think that's you want to maybe talk about that specific location Connie and up in Waimanalo so Waimanalo is mostly like farmland and can I say about it I think well we did explore that we did a field trip there and I think it's a great location there's Hawaii as you know like gets a lot of sun so what we're thinking of doing is making it completely green using solar panels that probably won't go on the roof since we're thinking about doing the little roof garden but yeah the climate's great and with like the natural ventilation going with our louvers you don't need AC Hawaii as you know like doesn't get cold at all so we don't have to worry about insulation for our project yeah so that's it in Waimanalo up there we particularly seek out the jungle a little forest they have and place the containers in there and have your little cabanas and you're working out in the fields and then you come home and go into your private thing and again our pitch is like we there are three companies there's Madsen here there's young brothers and then there's Pasha to whom we reached out and there are three companies and and they were saying currently the market price we haven't talked about price at all property we should so our thing is like they said well we're selling them for 2500 to three grand and then we're like saying well buy one and get one free so we're basically saying you know as the math is 40 footer times a 320 is indoors and then you get that extra 320 which Connie explained extra so you basically get 640 square feet for $2,500 which is of course you need to do some you know sweat equity interior work of course but but that's basically sort of like the cheapest way you can make it and you can make it really nice so it's it's along the same lines yeah so I mean that's great product you're working on and I really think it's it's it's really a lot of potential I think our prices are slightly different a bit way higher but still it makes a lot of sense you know when it comes to especially when it comes to the financing aspect you know you as being really as being a real estate developer you know mostly you have the problem when it comes to like you have so many cost combined to hard and soft cost right hard cuz by finding reconstruction team soft cost when it comes to all the finishes like getting architects interior architects here it's like choosing what do you want in a car so we come up with it with a set of finishes that you can choose from which saves a lot of energy and cost and banks you know we talked about banks they like the product because they for them it would be amazing to lend money to these kind of projects given the fact you know how the finishes look like you know the product so this is something to consider about as well with our high end you know we look you know it comes to 65 to 75 $70,000 when it comes to the fully furnished with everything included product which is still very affordable compared to what's out there absolutely not comparable to what you guys are working on but I think you know like there is definitely room for probably future project together here in Hawaii. Yeah as we said it's like it starts at the very low end and then you can easily go up and as you said you can start to do sweat equity and it's it's it's a great it's a great idea so I know how we're doing on time here but again thanks for the encouragement to coming here and point out to us that are sort of weird idea of cargo cabana courtyards is something that that would be feasible and that you guys basically brought Hans idea of prototyping to fruition and sort of mass producing that I think and automizing that I think that's in that's an awesome it's always been in the air and that's why this was the first book but there are so many more out there and you got a great endorsement by Han which you proudly place on your website where he's basically saying hey this is the right way and I know that Han has been a friend and I should say at this end if you guys want to look into that in the old urban transcendence show days and looking at Jay that's way back I actually when I was sent out over the summer being my one-band show with my little laptop and so technically on the edge but content-wise I visited Han at his office and we did a show and he was sharing you know his sort of pioneering passion so he's really proud of you guys okay have brought to sort of perfection and fruition sort of his his vision so that's that that's amazing and and now all stars align here in the middle you just said before nowhere but I corrected to everywhere right we're the center of the universe here in Hawaii and well all things come together and and again you teach us here what what we need to be taught about the business of that and hopefully we see many of these popping up here like trees and at different places for different users for a sock for the fire station for Bob Oda up in our caca-aco here at UH of course there is urgent need of student housing we have private developers unfortunately building horrible stuff out of the intersection of University and King Street this is like how you perfectly described how like we dinosaur we are as building technology you know this is a fully conventionally built port-and-place or her medic you know and and and super high-end and and just like you know shouldn't be there so we need you guys here so great definitely thank you for that so thank you very much for being here thank you Connie thank you more Jay thank you it's been a pleasure and I hope to come back very soon and I hope to stay for a bit longer that I see the other islands as well not just containers and and why Kiki Beach yeah thanks for having me here and I guess I'll see you on Wednesday I guess so too and maybe one last thought about I think this is great what you say that you keep the mobility of the element because the multi-story ones especially we've always been thinking about there's still some vacant lots like even in Waikiki there's vacant lots where developers or owners of land are waiting for some reason over another one we could make these like flash mob projects right that just pop up you just need a truck and a flatbed and a crane and they pop up over the weekend and all of a sudden they're there and then you know enthusiastic people like us and some you know qualified urban nomads that we formerly called homeless gonna move in and gonna make it work and demonstrate and I think it's gonna then sort of give good press so the the owner will benefit from it of the lot you know because you know it's a good project and when they're ready to build on their lot you know we just move on so it's a sort of flash mob basically methodology that I think you know you guys with your system allow because the container is still a container it can be on the crane put on the crane because everything is on the inside and not on the outside so that's a that's an incredible potential as well so let's go cargo and go crazy here on the island yeah alright guys I think we're we're at the end of the show are we or not and now we're doing on time can someone that's the beauty of live not in studio that you don't have all the amenities of clocks and money so I can add one point that that's been kind of cool we've been awarded by the German government as being one of the most innovative startups in Germany right now so the president Steinmeier came and I gave us the certificate which is kind of yeah really satisfying you know if you're working on something that has a meaning all right we've been part of the Korean Tech Award so you're not just doing something to make money probably you know at one point and we thought about it as well at one point we can go there and like put every 50 container out there for a charity project or at one point that we can really attack you know that probably by 40-foot containers by low-key versions of 20-foot containers the homeless issue the issue here when I'm here when I was here you know driving around and you know when I was in like I was last week I was in San Francisco the whole I live in New York same issue whole cities flooded with like homeless problem people and it's such a huge issue that we have to address at one point and I think absolutely this is so the containers would be in one at one point in the future the right thing to fight that yeah yeah and talking about Steinmeier working with Angela Merkel yeah still still and you know and she has invited the containers because of the immigration wave right inviting a million people and they had to be housed first and foremost with shipping containers and to my in my memory I think there was a shortage at one time because of that so I don't know maybe even you need us here because we have so many right maybe this is a source for you guys because I don't know how availability is has that sort of opened up again that market or I mean I heard it maybe was just a myth but you're in the midst of it so you tell me how as far as availability of the billing material I say the the material so the container per se it's it's there's a big big surplus of containers in the States the biggest surplus of shipping containers is at the hub of Long Beach all the goods that come from countries like China you know so the goods get out of the containers and there is not the same amount of exports when it comes to countries like the United States to these countries might change who knows but might get a bit more expensive yeah but as of now there is a huge problem the the refugee problem like crisis hasn't changed or hasn't changed the the availability of these containers probably a bit more than happy to work with Angela Merkel in two years she got even more time probably she's joining us but who knows you know like she said she doesn't want to be still in politics so you know we need good people all right I think Jay is gonna recruit you for another show about that kind of stuff what you just explained even applies more to us because we import almost everything and we unfortunately don't make anything anymore so that means containers come full totally packed and then they go back empty because we don't make anything of significance anymore and shipping something back over 5,000 miles with diesel ships doesn't make a lot of sense so that's why we have a lot of free retirement community of containers here and as well the shipping companies have told us they're constantly retiring the containers at a certain time and then they're ready to be repurposed or upcycled as a term that's used a lot right that's amazing potential once again so I think we can keep on going for a little bit Connie you got to have anything to add about our lower end of the spectrum yeah again it would be interesting almost to find you know like our university to make an institute or something like that right like a research institution to really work on that sort of the anatomy of shipping containers and really looking almost like Johannes Hager did did his great thing that he said well we got different climate zones and we got different backgrounds so let's develop sort of a family we should absolutely in the catalog one more point on that note and is we will have two showrooms hopefully in the way and one in New York one the West Coast so you guys should all check it out we will keep you updated and your students should all come over and check it out and we will have you back for that yeah until then thank you very much for your inspiration thank you very much for being here all right thank you very much for being here thank you for inviting me all right see you guys next week for another episode of human humane architecture here in all paradise to keep in Honolulu Hawaii bye bye