 And today's topic is Trump dumps on the prestige of the Oval Office. You know how many times in our youth, which was a long time ago, where we told you could do anything you want by your parents or grandparents, your friends, family, you could do anything you want. You could even be president of the United States. I'm not sure parents or friends, teachers. I'm not sure they say that anymore. And why is that? Well, it seems to me that the luster of the Oval Office, President of the United States, has been worn off a bit. Now, we can look to where we are today, and we are going to do that. We're going to take a deep look at where we are today, and some of the actions and words of former president that has tarnished the luster of the Office of President of the United States. But, you know, let's go back a little bit in time. It would be fair to have a deeper perspective. And, you know, we could look at President Wilson. He had the Espionage and Sedition Act of 1917. Basically, it was the cast, you know, doubt and negative attitudes about those of different races and or political beliefs. We could look to the FDR Administration and Executive Act 9066, which detains 110,000 Japanese Americans. Just because they're Japanese. We could look at Ronald Reagan and the Iran Contra, arms for sale deal. That was in a bright moment for his administration. That took off some of the luster of the Oval Office. We could look at the, of course, the Richard Nixon Watergate scandal. Certainly put a deep, deep hole in the office of President of the United States. Bill Clinton and the Monica Lewinsky affair scandal. Not good for the luster of the office. President Bush Jr. was accredited with the torture of prisoners in Guantanamo. And, but let's fast forward to Donald Trump. We have a president, had a president that was two times impeached. One for trying to hold back funds because he was trying to do a quid pro quo with Ukraine to get dirt on Joe Biden. And certainly the other one is his involvement with January 6th attack on the Capitol. So there's a lot more things that we're going to look at. And I'm going to go to my guests. With me today is my co-host Jay Fidel and our special esteemed guests, instead of my, that's plural. With me is our longtime host and participant and guest. Welcome back Cynthia Lee Sinclair. And of course, our ever famous special esteemed guests, Chuck Crumpton. Wow, it's a reunion. I'm happy. Good morning. Good morning. Jay, I'm going to go to you. I rattled off a whole bunch of things that presidents did, but I'm going to focus a little bit on really is the question valid. Has the Oval Office lost its luster due to the direct or indirect acts of either current presidents or former president? Let me tell you a story. It was 2016 and Trump was running for the first time. And there was a big State Department foreign policy meeting like he and the speaker was a guy from the State Department, very senior, very senior in government. And he talked about some of the things that Trump had promised in his campaign and Trump's history. And he was not particularly complimentary. And somebody asked him the question as well, suppose Trump is elected, how is it going to change things? And he said, don't worry. Trump will be impeached within six months. And then somebody said, why do you say that? He said, because Trump is a boor. That's why among all the other things, all the other crazy things in his number one first campaign, he's a boor and that overrides in all people will not tolerate a boor. And of course, he was right in the impeachment. He was wrong in the timing. And he was wrong in the thought that people will not tolerate a boor. They are tolerating a boor. Can you imagine George Washington making fun of somebody who is disabled with talking down heroes of the country? Can you imagine that? I mean, we've had 230 years of presidents that we admire, even if they were bad presidents, even if they were evil, even if they did wrong things and had bad policies, at least they were not boors. And now, with Trump in the first term and possibly in the second, we have a boor. And the question is, don't you have to measure a country who would elect and permit a boor to be president? Is that part of the office? There has to be a certain amount of class to a national leader. There has to be a certain amount of class, some discipline, some gentrimentliness about the leader of the free world. And for some reason, this country, at least a lot of people in this country, will tolerate a boor at every level, aside from his policies, aside from his craziness, aside from his racism and destruction of the democracy and all that. Aside from that, he's a boor. And that's where we have come to. And it's hard to understand, but the guy who spoke at this diplomatic meeting in 2016, he knew. You know, before I go to Cynthia for the next question, I'm thinking of the chief of staff, his first chief of staff, General John Kelly, who was the actual source of the Atlantic article and actually has confirmed that he was the source and confirming the statements that Donald Trump made about our heroes, our veterans that were killed in World War I and II. And he called them suckers and losers because they dared volunteer for their military service to defend our country. And he was Commander-in-Chief at that time when he made those comments. So I don't know what adjective I could use other than the word boor. I'm sure there are probably adjectives I can't say here on the air, but as Commander-in-Chief, I have never forgotten that. I have never let that go from my memory of the horrible insults that he said about our veterans. And also, he's at the grave site of his son, John Kelly's son, and he said, and I quote, I don't see what they got out of it. At the grave site of his son. I mean, if I was kept General John Kelly, I don't know what I would have said or done. I'm sure I would have been arrested for striking the president in the mouth. But that's just me. So, Cynthia, this topic, I'm sure you did some research and I'm dying to hear kind of what your thoughts are about Donald Trump and what your thoughts are about the prestige of the Oval Office and what Donald Trump has contributed to the lack of the luster. Well, first, you know, he had two full years of the presidency, the Supreme Court, the House, the Senate, the Department of Justice, and he did what? Immigration bills, zero. He did border closed, zero. Wall money, zero. And I could go on and on and on and on and on structure week, all of those things. What I really want to start with though is a quote from one of the best American novels I've written, Catch 22, Joseph Heller. It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all. He sought to turn vice into virtue, slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it. It requires no brains at all. It merely requires no character. And I love that, that it's so exactly what Trump did and how long ago was this written? We've got all these wonderful quotes that we can pull up, you know. I guess one of the things that strikes me to answer this question is in all of this legal stuff that he's going through, he doesn't want to try to claim his innocence. All he does is try to claim that it's okay for him to do it. And I think that says a lot. He's not trying to say, oh, I'm innocent. He's just trying to say I have the right to do it. You know, that's a great point. I remember early on this show months ago, we had Governor John Wahey on. And the comment he made that has also stuck with me is that Donald Trump has given permission for many Americans to say bad things and act badly. And it was a permission from the highest office in the land. So my question, my follow-up question is this, Cynthia. What harm to our democracy takes place if the highest office in the land is no longer viewed with respect or prestige? Oh, and it trickles down to every single agency, the military, and everybody else. It doesn't just stay there in the presidency. It trickles down to every American. And the biggest thing is that truth has been devolved into opinion. And there's no longer a fact that we can look at because everybody has their own perception of what that fact is now. And I think the fact that we don't have a definition of truth that we can all agree on anymore. And that is going to just not just to the agencies and the military and everybody else, devolve it going down and trickling down into all of society. People don't respect each other anymore. People don't respect anything anymore, but their own, excuse the lie, trumped up opinion. And so that's where I think it really is damaging for all of us. Okay, thanks for that perspective. It's a good one. Chuck, do you agree that the office of President of the United States has diminished in its prestige and or credibility or respect? Or do you think it's just a sign of the times? I want to thank Cynthia for both returning and for one of her always memorable quotes. And in honor of Cynthia's return, I have a spur-of-the-moment haiku on the theme of this show. The office has been tarnished. The truth has been varnished. What's next for us? Wonderful. Love that. Don't throw that away. Keep that. Well, it's recorded, right? So second, this is Vietnam Veterans Day. If ever there were a time to remember that the transition between the internal and the external destruction, both individual and collective of war and violence and the ability to bring people together that we last saw in Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, and people now 50, 60 years ago, if ever there were a time where the need for that is greater, it's not been in my 77 years. And Trump offers none of that. You're going to invite someone into your home and you look at the qualities that this person manifests on a daily basis. You look at the way he treats others, the way he talks to and about others. Not just immigrants, judges, families of judges, senators, national leaders in other countries, international leaders. He has absolutely no restraint because the characteristic of narcissism is all of your gain must be at the expense of others. And the others he chooses to inflict his gain at their expense upon are the people who most deserve to be honored, respected, valued and served. What's next for us? What's next for us? Great. But if you want to know what I really think I'll tell you later. Okay. Let it fly. So hang on to that thought and let it fly later on this show. Jay, you know, recently Donald Trump has been saying, and he's had a history of saying this, is that I'm not elected. This will be the last election probably for the United States. Or if I'm not elected, there'll be a bloodbath. He's the only president I'm aware of that actually has tried to overthrow an election, the 2020 election. I'm not sure other presidents have actually tried to thwart a political process during an election. Where do we go with this? Are we going to expect this for 2024? It looks like he's not doing well in the polls or do we get an advanced warning of his planned activities for November 2024? Let me answer that in two ways. Number one is he's been perfecting his January 6th technique for the last couple of years, and he is unlikely to allow Biden to win. Even if Biden wins, Trump will do another insurrection. And it may not look like the same kind of insurrection in January 6th, some other kind of insurrection. And he's gearing up to that. He's getting his MAGA Republicans to prepare for it, to suppress voting, to ask crazy legislation, to aid in his argument that he's going to make if he loses. So I think the answer is he's planning one way or the other to be the president again. And he's going to make great efforts and do great lying and disinformation and violence to bring people together. It's all very clear. This is not an empty thread. We've seen him do it before, but it'll be worse. The second part is to go to answer a question you posed earlier, and that is what can we do about it? And can we come back from where Trump is? And the answer is in a system I often comment on where the stock market is concerned. It's the fatigue system. So the stock market goes up until it gets tired of going up, and then it goes down. And then when it's down, at some point, it gets tired of going down. So then it comes up again. Oh, if that could happen here, more likely we are, we, meaning the country, and especially his acolytes and his base, are really tired of democracy, like Timothy McVeigh in the Oklahoma bombing years ago, tired of the country, tired of democracy, tired of the Constitution, tired of other people controlling things. And what you do is you destroy it. And Trump is a destroyer, and he is appealing, he is giving license to those in the country who are, likewise, tired of government, tired of patriotism, tired of respect. And so that is the more difficult problem. Does the fatigue theory apply to them? And when it hits bottom, can we ever recover? And I'm not sure we can. I think that's probably a one-way street because the destruction of the democracy, the destruction of civil society is hard to recover from. We've seen that in other places and other parts of our global history. So I'm very worried that, as I said before, if he's a boar, and he's a liar, and he's a misogynist, and a destroyer of democracy, and there are people who take license from that, who follow him, who believe, and I quote, he is the best president that we have ever had, and quote, heard that many times, you know, that it's really kind of too late. He has unleashed the genie, the evil genie out of the bottle. And although my fatigue theory applies on the top end to go down, it doesn't necessarily apply at the bottom end to return. I don't think it's recoverable. Sorry. Okay, as a follow-up, you know, in many shows we've talked about, the American public has what is known as Trump fatigue to use your stock market analogy. Are we still in the days of Trump fatigue, or has that now changed? Has Trump re-energized a new following, or are Americans fatigued with Donald Trump? We've seen the many polls that Americans don't want to see Trump or Biden run as presidents and see a repeat match-up. Where are we on that point? Well, that's such a good question. Really, it's important that we talk about it here now, because there is a certain amount of fatigue, and it's not necessarily on the MAGA GOP side of the equation. It's on the other side, or maybe it's for the independence, or for those who are uncommitted. But I think people are really getting tired of him. And part of it is, you know, the borer and the lack of respect and the clear threats to democracy and to civil society and to the global order. These are obvious things, and there hopefully are a lot of people who recognize those signals and who are getting tired of him, and hopefully who will vote for Biden, or, well, hopefully Biden, somebody other than Trump. And so that is something we should watch. We should watch it here on American issues. We should all be watching the signs of fatigue about Trump. And I think I would add one other thing, and that is there have been a number of articles and videos on YouTube lately by psychologists and psychiatrists, you know, who have been tracking his mental state. And it goes to dementia, it goes to a lack of mental acuity, all his mistakes that he makes, factual mistakes, and judgment mistakes. And, you know, some of the crazy statements he makes are part of that bailiwick. And the general contention among them, of course they're all anti-Trump anyway, the general contention among them is that it's getting worse. Okay, so the question is whether it's visible that it's getting worse. And whether it's visible ultimately to more people inside the Trump baseway, because if they start recognizing this, they're not going to go along with him, they're going to say, well, you know, we like some of the things he has said, and we think he's a great guy, but he's not fit to run the country. The problem is those people are not necessarily educated, they're not necessarily Akamai about the country, the history, and what it takes to be president, because they've gone along with him so far. But I suggest that as he gets worse, they may reconsider. Okay. Cynthia, you know, we recently have seen Donald Trump sell his tennis shoes, the gold-sprayed ones for $299. We've seen him hock some Bibles for $59.99. Of the things that the last seven years, what comes to your mind as to some of the most significant things that have brought disrespect or lack of prestige to the office of President of the States, did you think of a couple of things that stand out in your mind? Yeah, I can think of a lot of things, and the thing that... Just a couple. We only have so much time left. I really love that. But the thing that gets me about that is he is still degrading the office now, even though he's out of the office. And I think that is a really important thing to think about and realize. This is before he even declared that he was going to be president. I wanted to be president again, was going to run. So this started the minute he left. You know, what was the very first thing he did? Don't forget his little collector cards, you know, with him dressed up as all the different things, the firemen and the soldier and the weightlifter and all those other things that, you know, all his little collector cards. Well, he sold his mugshot, too. He's trying to sell his mugshot. Yes, those things like that, there's two things right there. So I won't go on with that. I have a quote from a bunch of people, but I'm going to read this one from John Adams, because you know me and my quotes, and I got a bunch of good ones. So we thought... We love your quotes. The most important... This is John Adams, okay? The most important thing to bear in mind is this. You must not give power to a man unless above everything else he has character. So I'll back the character. You know, Peggy Noonan has this great quote, and since we're running out of time, I won't read the whole quote. I'll just tell you basically what it says. That same thing. Character. You look to his character. You can hire smart people to do stuff if you're not smart. You know, you can hire policy walks to, you know, do all that stuff for you. If you need that, if you're not really smart, like look what Bush did, the second Bush did, you know? Okay, you can hire people that can do that stuff for you, but if you have no character, none of it matters. And that's what Trump had none of. And that's what he brought to the presidency, was this awful, I can do anything I want. It doesn't matter if it's against the law. You know, I have a quote from John Quincy Adams that says you must never, never accept a president that does things that you would not be able to do. You would, that would be unlawful for you to do. I don't want to mess up the quotes and call them quotes because I'm kind of quickly, you know, doing them. But I think that's so important that we realize that every Republican that still supports Trump has given up their integrity in order to get what they want. And anyone that will give up their integrity to get what they want, they have no character in my mind. And so I would say that it ruins the character of the country and that's where unfortunately, this, you know, doomsday projection or prediction or things we have no hope. And that would be why, because the people are no longer, not just tired, but their integrity has been attacked and assailed and no longer exists. And that's where we're in big trouble. Okay, Chuck, Cynthia raises a great point about the highest office in the land and that the occupant of that office should have character. What did this say to you about Donald Trump posting on Truth Social, his website, that is showed our current President of the United States, Joe Biden, hogtied, and in the back of a pickup truck. Now, you know, politics could get pretty rough and tumble. It could get dirty. But once again, Donald Trump posted that. What's your thoughts about the character of Donald Trump and what is he thinking when he just goes to his Truth Social at three in the morning and starts posting things like that? Is he sleepwalking or is this part of the political campaign or is it just being mean-spirited? It's well beyond mean-spirited. The image it calls to mind for me is, if you saw the movie Easy Rider with Peter Fonda, the last scene when they're in the truck and the truck of the rednecks goes by and it literally blows them away. Trump would not only do that, he would brag about it in advance that he could do it and get away with it. So the image that comes to my mind in response is the image of an American person, for me female because they seem to exercise better judgment more than the men do, but who knows. In the voting booth, in the privacy and the sanctity of the voting booth and something coming to their mind, some little Jiminy Cricket force that says, make a responsible, humane choice. That's our role. Does that occur before the voting booth? Does that occur now as we're watching Donald Trump post photos of Joe Biden hobtied? Does that come now when he calls immigrant subhuman? Does it come now where there's comments about if I'm not elected, there's a bloodbath? Does it happen just before the voting booth or do we see it in the polls months before the voting? No, none of that. What I'm thinking about is that moment in the voting booth, that moment when the person either chooses the unvarnished truth or the varnish lie. Okay, that's very powerful. Hey, thank you, Jay. Thank you, Chuck. Jay, we're out of time, but I guess I want to ask you your final thoughts about where we are with the prestige of the Oval Office and how far does it go? Does it go down even further than where we're at? Like you had suggested about the stock market, where's the bottom of the troth? Where's the lowest of the lowest part of the floor? We've talked for seven years saying, how low can we go and we can't get any lower, yet we continue to go lower with Donald Trump's antics. What are your thoughts on that? His pathology or psychopathology really depends on having acolytes around him. And he achieved that to some extent in his first term. In his second term, the acolytes will be perfect. 100% they will agree with everything he says and it will give him further license to do anything he wants and to suggest that his base to do anything he asks them to do. So when these guys in Congress are fed up with what's going on with the MAG and GOP and fed up what's going on in the house and so forth, and Congress is completely dysfunctional, we'll see if there's any hope on that. But they're leaving, they're retiring at the end of the year or sooner. And the question is who is going to replace them? Well, even though he's not president, Cynthia points out he's in a position to primary those who disagree with him. And he's in a position to replace in the same way those who leave. And so we're not going to do any better for a congressman to leave as a matter of conscience. Doesn't really help. Because the system that Trump has designed will replace that congressman with someone who does not have a matter of conscience. And that's the sad part. The other thing is, you know, just take a look around the leaders of the world. Leaders we know from history. Just picking a few. American presidents, FDR. And, of course, Churchill. And look at today's leaders in Europe, Macron, the leader of Britain, the leader of Germany, even the leader of Italy. Those are respectable people. You may not agree with them. They may have policies that are going to get their countries in trouble. But they're not déclassé. They're not boors. So as and when Trump gets back into office and as Cynthia suggests, even before, he is, in a way, the face of the United States. What do you think they think about us? They know how important it is to respect other leaders, to be respectful, not to be a boor. He is a class of his own. Sui generous. And Chuck can help you with that term. He's all by himself. And everyone in the world knows he's a boor. So that means, and there are those in this country, support him, obviously. So that means this country is on a huge decline in the eyes of the world. And if we ever have respectable leaders, we don't have one in Trump. And they all know it. There was one guy wrote a few years ago when Trump was first elected. He was a journalist in the Irish Post. And he said, what the United States deserves from us now is pity. And I think that will be more and more the case. That's a sobering comment. Because that's the last thing the United States needs is pity. What we need is to be that shining city on the on the hill, as Ronald Reagan used to point out in his speeches. Cynthia, your last thoughts on this topic. And please take your time. Well, I know that we are over time. And I sort of said how I feel about stuff already. And we all know what Trump is. So I want to have as my last comment, a quote from Mahatma Gandhi, seven blunders of the world that lead to violence, wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, and politics without principle. The seven blunders of the world that lead to violence. Thank you, Cynthia. Chuck, I'd like to get your final thoughts and any suggestions other than the good ones you've already made. I think I'd like to leave it where I did. Which is, when you go into that booth, you have one choice, you have one responsibility. Make it for the people you care about the most. Try to bequeath to them a choice in a world that will be humane and responsible to them going forward. And will treat people as they really deserve. There should be no question as to where that choice directs us. What about Suey Generous, Chuck? Suey is a phrase used in Arkansas and surrounding regions to call pigs. Generous is what the autolone billionaire, Hanky, was to come up with a $175 million bond for a guy who is facing 88 felony charges that wants to resume control of the free world in an unfree condition. You know, I appreciate that definition because it fits quite well. I'm just going to conclude before I thank my guests. And that is, there was a time where character did matter. There was a time when integrity mattered. I think it still does. I think somehow it's been buried, or it's not always to the top of our vision when we look at politics and when we look at leadership. Certainly it took a minor scandal back in the day to basically disqualify a candidate from president of the United States or any office. So I echo Chuck's last words in the, let integrity and character be on the forefront of your mind as you select the next president of the United States. And with that, I'd like to say thank you to my guests, my co-host Jay Fidel. Thank you Cynthia, Lisa, and Claire for joining us again. It's been a real pleasure. We hope to see you again. Thank you for attending. And of course, Chuck, where would we be without you and your sage-wise comments? And also, reminders. Reminders for all of us as we move forward, not only today, but on this special day of remembrance for Vietnam veterans, but also as we progress in the year and we get closer to Election Day. Your words, your conscious aids us all. And thank you for your participation in the show. I'm in debt to you. With that, I'm Tim Appichella for American Issues Take One. Join us next week. And until then, aloha. Please make a donation on thinktecaway.com. Thanks so much. Aloha.