 Hello, folks. Good morning. I hope for a few more minutes to be able to pull everybody in here. I'm not seeing all of our folks in yet. No problem. And Amy, as I told you, I don't have slides, but I have a two-pager. Yeah, we can figure out how to be able to distribute that, because it's a little hard to be able to screen share for like a two-pager. So how about this? We'll let you go ahead and kind of do your presentation. Sure, yeah. And then we can follow up from there. That's fine. OK, yeah. And if you want, I can definitely screen share my screen with the two-pager, but I'm happy to go with nothing as well. Let's roll with like the being able to keep things together, because we've got a lot of other things on the agenda a day. So cool. No problemo. I'm holding for Liz, who said she'd be joining us today. So good fun. Good stuff. All right. Got it. I am now seeing Liz is going to be 15 minutes late. She wants us to start without her. And that's perfectly fine. Yeah, give me a minute to be able to see like, we're pretty good. I'm wandering in only three minutes in, so. Yeah. And I mean, if you folks, if you want, I can wait till whenever Liz can. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We've got this one. No, no, no. OK. OK, so you'll tell me when to start talking. I believe it's in. Yeah, see, and a few more folks joined. So given it probably like another 30 seconds or so. All right. Welcome to your CNCF TOC meeting. It is October 5th. Our normal antitrust policy applies here. Good to see all of you meeting logistics. You have made it here. Well done. TOC members attract over in the public meeting working doc. But here's our folks. And this today's agenda today. We've got Priyanka coming in to chat about some cloud native credits, which I'm pretty excited about. We've got all of our tag updates. Largely, what I can see is everyone is prepping for KubeCon, which is pretty great. And we'll talk about projects applying the move levels. I know there's some conversations about maybe getting in some like other pieces in here. And if we have time for questions, we will absolutely do so. So with that, Priyanka, I will now hand to you and let you kind of like lead in. So thank you. Yay. Thank you so much for giving me a time slot here, folks. I really appreciate being in front of the esteemed TOC. So today, I thought I'd come here and share a little bit about this program that I've been working on called Cloud Native Credits. So the idea is that, as you all know, all of our projects need some kind of compute resources, CICD resources. And usually what happens is some magnanimous donor offers a free account, offers some credits, and projects are on their way. Before you know it, things have gone really well and suddenly it's a graduated project in the CNCF. And at that same time, the demands on the infrastructure needs to get bigger and bigger, and there's lots of stressful conversations and situations where we don't know where the next credit is coming from. On the other side, for the donors, they have these myriad accounts that are out there, and they mostly have to manage them themselves. And there can be a lack of transparency into what's going on just because of the fragmentation. So based on what we were seeing as the need in the ecosystem, we created the Cloud Native Credits program to allow interested parties to donate infrastructure resources for CNCF projects through the CNCF. The value for the donors is that they just have to call us and tell us how they want to do things. For example, hey, I've created an account. You can have admin access, and let's decide the rules based on which the credits are dispersed. And then please keep us posted with transparency reports. And on the CNCF side, what we would say is that's great. Thank you. We also need a technical point of contact and an associated SLA so that our projects could actually benefit from this. At the same time on the project side, it's very similar to the experience many of you have probably already had with the Equinix Medal program where they have been very magnanimous and given us a million-dollar credits to disperse to anybody who needs it. So think of this as an expansion of that program and a streamlining of things that are already happening. The hope is that this makes our graduated projects even more robust because we will always prioritize them when it comes to dispersing any resources available. I am going to be sharing this program with the community at KubeCon in my keynote. This is by no means a finalized announcement of this is how things stand and always will stand, but rather like, hey, this is a thing. Sign up if you're interested in helping projects out. I have had preliminary conversations with a lot of wonderful vendors, many of which are represented here in the job titles you all hold. So there's lots of interest already. So oracles reached out, Cox Communications, which is actually a telco, but is coming with an edge platform, is also getting started, have good conversations going with Cisco, Microsoft, et cetera. I'm telling everybody. And I'm giving everybody the example of Equinix and Google as folks who have been making large-scale donations over time. And I'm getting, the crowd is very receptive. So that's kind of the good news. We've paired these donations with some benefits to the donors in terms of like, oh, we'll give you a shout out here or we'll do this kind of blog post or something like that. So I have a detailed list of what we are planning and benefits available as well. And actually, I will link to this two-pager, which incorporates what we've got right now, that people can look at and read. You are very, very welcome and encouraged to provide feedback. Please send it to me either Slack, actually, not Slack, not to me, sorry. I'm just trying to think what's the best way to do this. I started talking too soon. I think the best move for feedback is to, OK, Amy, I would like your advice here because I want to make sure that email is going to be trackable and findable. And yeah, being able to email. OK, perfect. Telling Amy as well works, but there's only one of me and there's one email inbox that's then searchable and findable. Yes, exactly. And is there like an alias that people could use that would be seen by both you and E-hor? And maybe we could add if be hippie to it. Not yet. Like that's kind of like not something that exists right now. No problem at all. OK, in that case, since people will be sending emails, I request you can email me, but also CC, hippie hacker, and E-hor, and so. Oh, yeah, I mean, public feedback also welcomed. That's fine, too. Yes, that's the TOC list is fine, too. But if you want to reach 101, me, hippie, and E-hor are the people working on this every day with support from many others. One thing I want to call out, so just so people know, this program is by no means an alternative for the human capital and resources our projects need. So I've had lots of conversations with folks in the Kubernetes community, for example, about the need for maintainers, contributors who can come in and take on specific portions of work. And this program is I wouldn't think of it as in any way related, quite frankly. And just so you folks know, after I'm done with this, I think KubeCon has pushed this through quite a bit. My goal for the next KubeCon, biggest conference development development, is going to be to build out a program to help graduated projects starting with Kubernetes. I hope that's OK to get more resources of doers in terms of code contributions. And I'm still just in very sketching it out mode. I got actually really good advice from Dims the other day when I had a lovely lunch with him. And I've talked to Paris a bit. But right now, this is early stages, is maybe like a rotational fellows program, which is like a one year fellowship that a select few apply to get with CNCF. And they are placed in specific high need, high risk, high value areas of Kubernetes. And they support the project for a year and then help recruit the next year's fellows, train those. And then it kind of goes in a cycle like that. And the companies who would be sponsoring these people get this usual, a nice set of marketing benefits. This is like my initial thoughts right now. But I wanted to put that in here so that you folks know that I'm not only focused on things like credit is there, I truly recognize the importance of getting more doers into our projects. Yes, I agree, Ricardo. We've got to put the structure of this in a way that the companies are stoked to be like, oh, yeah. I got a fellow and that's like a big deal. So working on it. But expect that one for Valencia. Any questions, thoughts? Priyanka, I have a couple of questions. This question is what other criteria will be used to prioritize the projects and what do projects need to provide to CNCF to prove the needs for cloud credits? Sure. So number one, this is how far we've gotten. So work in progress. But number one is status level, right? So if you're graduated, your first in line. The second is a certain percentage of the allocation, the donator, the donating organization, can share like, hey, here's our, we would love to contribute to Project XYZ. And a certain percentage of their donation can go with that to be fair to them. And then beyond that, it's going to function very much like the Equinix Metal platform right now where a project sends in, I think you folks do service tests for the rest. And Ihor looks at that and then gives the credit out as much as fast as possible. This is like the current thought process. I would be more than happy to iterate on it with you folks and make it more detailed. Thank you. Absolutely. We're operating a little bit like a startup where it's like at first I was trying to figure everything out. And then it was really interesting because everything that we figured out, people were like, oh yeah, that doesn't work for me. And so I was like, oh, OK. And so then we started going more iterative and like just talking, talking first and then like defining as we go. And that's kind of our plan to continue that way. Any more thoughts, questions? Krianka, can you talk a little bit more about the execution of this project? I think it's a wonderful idea. I'm just curious, especially for a large project like Kubernetes, moving infrastructures is non-privile. Yes. And so just getting the credits is likely insufficient. I guess it relates to, I guess, your doer's comment. What are your thoughts on that? Yes, absolutely. So I think one for the largest project, Kubernetes, I would say that this is a nice to have in the sense, as you know, they have a big grant from Google. And we are utilizing that grant quite successfully. We're well set up for it. And so I wouldn't want to come in and shake that up. But for example, I heard from Paris that they wanted Kubernetes would like to test itself on Alibaba Cloud, right? And they need credits for that. So that's net new and that can come in through the program. I'm actually talking to Mark, I think, today. Yeah. And so for the largest project, which is Kubernetes, which has a very complex infrastructure story, not trying to forceport anything, I think this will start with Greenfield first, where you have a net new need for resources you reach out. Or you are, for example, talking to company A about getting credits, as Paris informed me was the case for getting credits from Alibaba. And then we can jump in and help streamline the process. And then a year later, or so when everybody's more used to it, et cetera, et cetera, we can talk about getting the bigger existing processes into this, if it makes sense. Bob, I will pass to you next. You had a question in chat, but I'm also happy to give you voice as well. OK. As the technical contact you were talking about earlier, going to be like some from the company, or is it going to be like I with Hippie, the person or group that's just going to be there to help enable the products to actually use those credits once they've been given them? It's, I forget which one you said first, I was going to say former, but then it's like maybe it's latter. No, it's going to be a company contact. So Hippie is all, Hippie is part of this project. So he's going to, he's, he's looking at it for sure. But in addition, we are going to have if Oracle's giving credits a technical point of contact or and SLA from them and save for any other vendor. Will there just a quick follow up? So will there be any support to actually like help the projects use the credits or that just be going to like the technical point of contact as part of the like the SLA or something? So as of now, then this is, as I said, startup mode open to change. As of now, the way I've envisioned it is that we keep it as close to the Equinix Metal model as possible where the project request resources gets them and then then if they have a problem, they can get help from the technical point of contact. That said, if we see that, oh, everyone's struggle, we have all these credits and everyone's struggling to utilize that's when I'll have Hippie help with another project, which would be to determine how can we like support usage here, et cetera. I see there is a question from Matt. Have we assessed them? Actually Matt, if you wanna be able to speak to that, go ahead. Sure, I was just, in looking at what supports open source projects, most, there's a staggering number of projects that use GitHub Actions heavily now that you can run things like Kind within a GitHub Action, suddenly there's a whole bunch of compute networking, everything. I was just curious if that was part of the assessment. Yes, very much so. I've been pinging Eeyore that, hey, can we include GitHub Actions on the story? And his answer is yes, soon. So, and the reason is we're already, as you said, lots of usage of GitHub Actions going on. The way it seems to be structured from our end is that in addition to actions, there's a ton of services support that GitHub is offering and we wanna bring them into this program and definitely give them all the credit they deserve, but I don't think in time for KubeCon is the only thing. Okay. That is next week, no. Yes, and I do agree with you that there's a lot of good stuff happening there and they deserve to be kind of given the appreciation and I'm just like slowly working on that. Yeah, one of the other aspects of that is sort of the identification of packages that have known CVEs or security issues and the automated PRs that just kind of they do, like that's another whole slice, I think of contribution that GitHub's made, that really has made the community able to address things that otherwise they might not have the resources for individual projects. Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, thank you for sharing that. I can kind of, I hadn't, in terms of the credits and offering here, I hadn't thought of the security aspect as being part of it, not because I don't think it should be, but omission rather than anything else. So let me wrap my head around it and kind of, but definitely all for like showcasing the value this has brought. So I'll work with you on that if that's okay. All right, quick time check, we are 20 minutes in roughly. Any other questions around this one? That was a comment from Paris in the chat. Oh, I missed it. Is it there? Oh, we've addressed some of that, yes. Oh. The moving back towards being able to have more of the Equinix model. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But happy to be able to get more voice Paris if you wanna be able to raise that question for real. No question, it was just a statement. Okay, fine. Yes, and as you know Paris, I don't know if you heard like my, before I was talking about how once I kick this off, while we will have a technical point of contact and SLA and all that, I don't think that's gonna solve projects problems basically. And so after this program's done for Valencia, I'll be aiming for a different program which is more about the human capital and resources that we all need in the projects. And I've been just thinking it, it's very in strong stage in my head right now, but thinking through like a rotational fellows program where people come in for a year, they work on like the most needed things and the sponsoring company gets like thank yous and kudos and whatnot. And then they train folks who would take on the rotation next year. Like this is very early stage thinking, but I absolutely agree with you on the need for good contributions and coming into projects we are in high. We absolutely require them. So we'll work on it after this one's done. Priyanka, Dinsir. So one of the kind of like frustration we had with this loop of feedback was that we even sure whether, you know, if you put it in a PR for example, in CNCF foundation and, you know, right down there and there's discussion happening there. So we know that some of the feedback that we are getting in is getting incorporated and which one are not. So we need some way of like tracking, make sure that we are all on the same page. I remember Bob had a few viewpoints and Paris had a few. And I wanna be sure that we are including everything in the final one that gets rolled out, right? So if you can do something better on that side at this time or next time, that'll be good. Sure. So one thing I wanna point out is no, there's no final. There's no final. It's always iterative. And I think what I would like to get to is make this announcement have the like paperwork ready to a point where it's, you know, I've sought a lot of feedback in conversations. No, no, no, but not in the formal process because I didn't think we had enough to really like, you know, get real value from the comments. But I think now that I've actually lined up some vendors and it's more real. And I think we can actually get to the point of like, oh, how will we disperse this credit or that kind of thing? I'm more than happy to kind of get this thing started. I think give it until, so we're gonna keep on. Basically look for it in November, just because by then I think the dust will have settled enough for the feedback to be like really useful for us, if that makes sense. Right. Yeah. And there's two sides to the story. One is what we are asking for, an outreach which feels like there is enough meat there. But like Alina was asking, how do we do things on our side? And we are like, we don't know, we still have to figure out. So that's where most of our questions and like, how are we gonna pull this off? How are we gonna make sure that, you know, we don't blow the budget, you know, in terms of the caps that come different projects. So on the execution side, there's a lot more that needs to be worked on. And so who's gonna do the work? What will be done? And how do we ask, you know, what is the feedback loop there? So if we can have a public place where the discussion is happening, that will be really good for the implementation side. And if we can start that off, that will be even better. That's the plan because he's gonna be leading that like definition of it. As I told you, we already kind of have like, okay, we'll have like gaps, we'll have like, you know warnings that we send off to people if something's like really out of whack. But you're absolutely right. That it needs to be fleshed out. It was like, it's a marketplace step situation, right? Chicken and egg. And so I got somewhere with, okay, we'll actually be able to get some resources. And then now let's execute it. Just so you know, we'll present something like that. I don't want to present a clean slate to you folks for feedback because that's like not very useful. We'll take a stab at it and we'll like try to run it once in one instance or something and then put it up. And that's why I said like wait for November and yes, hippie will lead the project. Sounds good. Thanks, thanks a lot, Priyanka. Absolutely. There is something Matt shared. One of the few- Conversation about the supply chain security, get up security, so. Ah, okay. Good stuff. Just kind of notes running around about things. So we're at 25 after, so I'll go ahead and move us on. But thank you so much for coming by. Priyanka, if I can get you to send your two credits to the TOC mailing list, that'd be perfect. Sure thing, Will do. Thank you so much for your time. All right. Good fun. I'm not sure if we've got the tag at delivery folks on the line. I'm gonna give a chance to be able to kind of come and weigh in. Cause I didn't see any of them come on in the dock and going once, going twice at delivery. All right. You all are prepping for KubeCon, which is glorious and wonderful. Paris, tag contributor strategy. I know. We're almost as bad as apps. That's okay. There's no bad here. I know we are also in the middle of KubeCon. Like, oh my gosh, is it really seven days away mode? Yeah, I'm gonna, I'll put the link to the maintainer circle in both the TOC Slack as well as the maintainer circle Slack. And so that won't be a placeholder anymore, including the Zoom chat here in a second. But good news is we actually are trying out our first ever in-person maintainer circle. We've been doing a few virtuals over the last year. For instance, we had Jerome from old Docker days come in and do a talk on burnout. And we've had several others for this onsite KubeCon. We have Jennifer Alman coming in. Jennifer actually has done talks with KubeCon prior. Jennifer is an executive coach among many other things. So she has a sort of professional non-engineer vibe, which is cool. And she's gonna be doing a discussion on the effective maintainer. Just similar to what we've all had before, like the effective manager and things like that in other industries, but this will be on the effective maintainer. The capacity is 50 people. It is similar to our other virtual shows where we have sort of a lesson and then a breakout. And the breakout is interactive between maintainers to talk about and share their stories in that one area. Like for instance, one of the sections storing the talk is going to be on emotional intelligence. So maintainers will get to talk to other maintainers about things that happen in their life and experiences as they maintain open source software to help them grow to be better maintainers. We're really excited about this. The group also has several other things that we've been producing. Carolyn has been rocking the contributors.cncf.io website to make sure that contributors get documentation and things that they need bubbled up outside of GitHub repos to help all of the projects and all of the maintainers of said projects. We have different kinds of advice documents that have been uploaded to our project template repo in thecncf.org. If folks want to take a look at that, things like the contributor framework is in there as well, which is an extensive guide to building a contributor base and some really awesome other things like that. In that same breast, we're also looking for more contributors to come help us. There's just so many other documents that we can build out that would help contributors and maintainers alike as well as advice and guidance that we can build out. And then I'm also looking for someone else to help me run maintainer circle. And then after KubeCon, we'll get back to a virtual maintainer circle schedule. I would love to have other people come and help us with any of the above. And please spread the word about maintainer circle. We are getting the registration out pretty late, but it is a 90 minute session on Thursday. And now I'm gonna go ahead and copy and paste the length in all four places. And if you can drop that into the TOC list too, that would be great. Yep. Thank you. Yeah, go ahead. Thank you. All right. Any other notes for tag contributor strategy? And we also have Liz on the line. So Liz, if you want to run this meeting, I can pass to you too. No, it's cool. You carry on. I'm sort of here, but fish, you know. Perfect. All right. Questions for tag contributor strategy. All right. Go ahead and move on. All right. All right. Well, we'll have our typical intro and deep dive next week. That will take people through the activities within the tag. That's good. We've got a couple of projects out for review. Cilium and Chaos Mesh. It was just conversing with a Chaos Mesh maintainer this week. Part of, and so it's a part. So, Harry, part of the feedback that they were, that they were concerned about, I wanted to make sure they were on the right side of was the diversity of maintainers. And I know there's a random question and they kind of have an on the spot thing, but part of my, from what I had seen, it looked like they were probably on the right side of that concern. And so Harry, I think you're liaising or reviewing on Chaos Mesh. Do you recall? Like, is it, do you, like, is this something they need to actively work on from your perspective? I wanna try to give them the right guidance and not the wrong guidance. Yeah. So I do work with them, but it's several weeks ago and I didn't get any feedback since then, but the last time we talked, we discussed is that they want to introduce and to introduce their contributor to maintainer diversity because right now all of us, every maintainer, I think it's exactly every maintainer from PINCAP and their contribution graph is still lacking of enough external contributors. So this is the last conversation we have. Okay. Okay. Okay, good. Then they're definitely aware of that feedback. That's good. All right, fair enough. Other brief announcements. The other activities that we've been having in the tag network itself, other than the, is voting, and Liz, you may be, you might know, be more up to speed, is Isilium still in vote? Or like, so it's- It is still in vote. Okay. So in large part, what we try to be able to do is work on being able to keep everything in vote until we have everything kind of aligned. And in large part, sometimes not everyone is like, able to move as quickly as we want to. So. Okay, yeah. Oh, sure. Okay. So I guess just to clarify my language, maybe not in review, but in vote. It is in voting. Yes. Projects under review means like the things that we're currently reviewing and Isilium is up for an incubation vote. That vote is not yet closed. Thank you. Of the other activities within the tag is the service mesh working group. So there's, it's been, so last time we were on the call, we mentioned there's a collection of maintainers on service mesh performance that had, we're working on an IEEE publication thanks to stewardship from the co-chair Ken Owens. There are 5,000 performance tests, results that have been collected from the Measury Project that implements the service mesh performance spec. And so hopefully those are under analysis. And so we'll see what we'll see what those produce. Within the service mesh working group, there's an initiative called Get Nighthawk where it's about the Nighthawk load balancer just as a call out within the next time that the service mesh working group will meet. It'll be a presentation from Jacob whose last name escapes me from Google who works on the adaptive load control portion of Nighthawk. That was kind of an intriguing area. And that presentation will be on October 28th. That's it, those are the new items since last we met. Excellent. Any questions? Anything else we haven't covered from chat and things? Yeah, go ahead. Quick reminder, there's a third co-chair for a tag network, Ed Warnacky who's just coming into that role. So another call out to Ed. All right. On the interest of time, I guess we'll move on. Tag observability. I'll be quick since we're short on time. We recorded a maintainers track talk. It's going to be at KootCon. We're pretty excited about it. I'm not giving away much of the talk other than this was really one of my biggest takeaways that I hope people will have. And it's really around our need for a real multidisciplinary set of folks to join and contribute at the tag level in order for the tag to achieve some of its goals. And so I wanted to get a small preview that starts from the first or second slide of the talk. But that will be airing virtually. I'll be locally in LA and we'll be trying to organize whoever else from the observability space wants to get together for either Q&A after the talk as well as organize a small meetup. There's a contact sheet linked. Otherwise it's been a really quiet couple of weeks. I think everyone's been nose down prepping for next week. And that's it. All right. Not hearing any questions, not seeing questions. We can move on to tag runtime. Ricardo, I know you're here. Yeah, I'm here. Hello. Okay, so quickly. So we don't have tons of updates, but yeah. So in terms of projects, containers and runtimes, we reached out to Inclavera containers. Basically, Project tackles confidential computing. They are already in the CNCS sandbox. So then we presented soon, so they're already reply and they're gonna put it on the calendar. On the workloads space, K3S came in to our meeting and they had a presentation in terms of other projects in the same space, Qvert, they are going for incubation. So they're gonna have a presentation tomorrow in Alina is actually sponsoring that project. So we'll record talk and we'll take it from there. Another project in the workload spaces are Mata or Mata and this is a project that allows users to run Kubernetes jobs in a multi-cluster environment and they're scheduled to present on October 28th. And then in the edge AI space, we have this project called Akri that applies for sandbox is already in sandbox in the CNCF and in this project tackles connecting edge devices with Kubernetes and that's presented in our meeting on Thursday. And finally, in terms of activities in the tag, I was still working on choosing a logo. We have a lot of interesting choices posted on the GitHub repo. So we'll hopefully we'll be choosing that in the next month. There's some activities like with working groups, some folks around the WebAssembly community has or have expressed interest in creating a working group. So that's in progress. There's also interest in creating an edge working group. The folks from the K3S project that presented in our last meeting. So they're also thinking about creating that. And finally, we have sessions in KubeCon North America and China in the one in North America, it's gonna be in person. So that will be me and I'll be presenting there. And that's all for the updates. No, that's excellent. You are not the only ones waiting on logo, but we'd like to get those completed. So thank you. Yep. Questions, comments, anything for tag runtime? Thank you very much. Security, you are up next. Awesome. So three quick updates. This time round, so the first one is on a new process that we have for TechGleets. The community is expanding, we have a lot more activities going on. And so we wanna expand the TechGleet team. And we are experimenting with a new idea of having some of these nominations actually come from the community instead of the traditional process where we just have chairman nominations and then we kind of discuss this with the TOC. So the new, the community nominations, our work is still here to the TOC process where all these have to be again, cleared by the chairs and also with the TOC. How it works is that folks in the community can nominate other people that they think would be fit for TechGleets and provide some justification why. And it's up for the co-chairs to kind of review them and make sure that those that are nominated kind of meet the requirements or have the right tools and skill sets to be a TechGleet. So nominations are now opened to close at the end of the month. We open it for about the month period. And more about this process is in this document that we've created on the TechGleet proposal process. Another update is we are introducing a community manager. This is part of the effort to kind of socialize a lot of the different call to actions that are going on. There's a lot of things that are happening during the weekly meeting. Some of them, the signals, the noise ratio may not exactly be that high. And so we want to kind of grow, have a community manager that kind of takes action items or call for actions and bring them out of the community to solicit more participation. And part of this is this new role called the community manager which Raga is kind of meeting right now. And part of this is we have a new Twitter account which will be used to be driving traffic there. And last but not least, we have our cloud native security con coming up next week. The CTF is going to be Hollywood themed. First time I read that, I thought it was some Halloween theme, but it's Hollywood. It's a hybrid. So half of the sessions are going to be in person, half virtual. And we have a lot of people in person and also actually. So exciting time next week. A lovely note from Liz over in chat. Great that tech security has such big community and there's a specific role in community management. So, hey. Very excited to be able to see all of your things coming up for the KubeCon upcoming. Any other questions, comments? All right, seeing nobody else on mute, we will pass to tag storage. Hello. So thanks to Shane for helping so put some of this content together today as well. So we've also been prepping for KubeCon in our talk. We're going to be covering off some new content on the cloud native disaster recovery and on the performance and benchmarking. So that's pretty exciting. And we're kind of hoping that we'll encourage more people to join and participate. In terms of the projects, I'll give a quick update here too. So Longhorn is, the DD is completed and that's quite the going through the voting process. True PowerFS is, the DDL stock is almost complete. We've been sort of going through a number of iterations with the project team. Rafael has been leading that. I think the last item on there is to verify and speak to some of the end users either directly or via survey to finish that off. In terms of open EBS, we had a good meeting with the team last week. There are two items that we would like to, that we will reach out to the CNCF legal council and we'll CC Amy for visibility, just to clarify a couple of IP and trademark questions that came up. And then I have a bit of a nask from the TOC in that we would like a little bit of guidance or perhaps a discussion in terms of how to evaluate a project that's actually a suite of things. So in the case of open EBS, there are a suite of different components, some of which offer lots of, a variety of different functionality and they have different levels of maturity. And we'd like a bit of guidance in terms of how to evaluate a project when it's not an individual system, but it actually is composed of multiple systems. So if maybe somebody from the TOC would be able to act maybe as a sponsor or as an alliance and for the open EBS project, we could have a discussion online or perhaps we could have a discussion now depending on timeframe. We have a few minutes, so happy to be able to hold the floor open. Cool, so as background, the open EBS project is a storage subsystem and it includes three major components. One is a way of managing backend disks within the Kubernetes cluster. The second is managing local volumes within a Kubernetes cluster and the third is providing some data services to those volumes like replication and they have a number of different engines to do this. One of the sort of question marks that we had was that the project, for example, is putting a lot of its efforts into some of the newer engines which are currently in beta, although the existing engines are still being supported. But we had this kind of question as to, do we recommend a project for do we recommend the project for incubation which kind of implies the production worthiness when maybe the engines that are being developed and maintained are still in beta? And when we come to speak to end users, for example, is it sufficient to speak to end users of one particular type of functionality or do we need to get, for example, three end users for each of the engines? And what would be sufficient to pass a DD process? I'll hand it over to the TOC for comments. Sure, I know that Aaron has had the drop but our TOC liaison for storage is sad. So I'll pass to Saad and actually Liz, go ahead. Yeah, I'm just wondering if there's any kind of parallel here to the discussions we had about open telemetry and its different, you know, how it covers logging and metrics and tracing. And those were at different levels of maturity. I'm not sure if it's an appropriate parallel to draw but certainly in that case, we didn't feel that it was appropriate to kind of hold the project to its kind of, you know, projects are allowed to introduce new features, projects are allowed to kind of have features at different levels of maturity. And so almost that's clearly expressed, you know, so when it's very clear to a user whether the part that they're looking at is kind of, well, what kind of level of maturity it's at, that that shouldn't necessarily kind of hold back the overall project. Does that make sense? And does that kind of work as a parallel for this case? I guess to a certain extent, yes, it does. I think that's useful. I think it's more, you know, so in terms of parallels, right, there are maybe two aspects here. One, yes, there are different types of functionality and that's fine. So my first question is, you know, do we have to get end users using this in production for the different chunks of functionality? Because we know, for example, there are a lot of adopters that use OpenEPS for just basic local volume management. And that's fine. But that, you know, but quoting those end users doesn't necessarily mean that it covers sort of the functionality, say for replicated storage. And therefore, you know, should we be getting, say two sets of end users to validate that? So that's the first question. But then the second question is, you know, coming on to what you're saying, of course, every project goes through iterations. But do we, you know, do we, do we need to, like if there's an old module and a new module and 90% of the effort is going into the new module, should we, should there be an expectation that the new module is production worthy or is it okay if sort of the old module is production worthy and the new module is coming up to speed, for example? Yeah, I think these are really good questions. I don't know if I have a good answer, but just brainstorming, I think what I would suggest is try and identify what the happy path or the recommended path for the product is and use that to try and gauge kind of the adoption and the different metrics we're looking for, rather than every kind of subfeature that's offered. I don't know if that would help at all in this case. Yeah. All right, it sounds like we need, it sounds like we need a little bit more discussion. I think it would be, I don't know, aside or maybe if we can get some time there as well, it might be worth us having a separate call to review this and provide some guidance. Yeah, happy to do that. Thank you. Okay, I think that's it then for me. All right, any other questions in here? All right, we will wrap up with our quick review for projects applying to move levels in here. The change that has come up from last time is Dapper is in public comment, but happy to be able to take feedback on anything else that needs to be up here. Projects applying for graduation with sponsors. Projects applying for incubation with sponsors, so. The one that I would add to the incubation list is that I have just recently agreed to sponsor Kepton. So we could add Kepton to that list. This actually comes from the TOC working doc, so yes, you were on there, that just didn't make it in last night, so perfect. Okay. No worries. No worries. That is a great check, that means like people are actually reading the slide and paying attention, so excellent, thank you. No, no, no, this is great, thank you. All right, any other questions in here? So I have a little something that I wanna bring up as well, which is thank you in advance to all the folks who have already responded to this, but I sent out a note to the tag chairs last night about the KubeCon keynote presentation. We are highlighting the tags in the KubeCon keynote presentation. And so I might ask to all of you if you haven't checked your email yet, is, and several of you have already filled it in, is that I sent you a link to a Google slides and just need you to go in and fill in a couple of things for your specific slide for your tag. And if we can do so, sorry about the short timeline, but if we can do so by end of day tomorrow, Wednesday, then we can get a little bit of graphic help to polish these off before our keynote next week. So thank you in advance. Just wanna say it very, very quick. Thank you for that. It's really brilliant to get a bit more visibility of the tags at the keynote. And hopefully that'll help us build our communities as well. So thank you so much for that opportunity. Oh, absolutely. I mean, the tents are so central to the ability for the Cloud Native Foundation to function at scale. And the work y'all do is amazing. So yeah, it's totally our pleasure. Nope, that was my last item on the agenda. Oh, thank you. You're great, because Ricardo would kind of like drop that in earlier. We'd like everyone get in there. All right, perfect. Any other things that people wanna be able to bring up in our last four minutes? Just gonna shout out to Cornelia for taking on that keynote talk and caroling it all as well. So thank you, Cornelia. My pleasure. Oh, this is great. Thank you. All right, seeing no further questions, I will send everyone back into their days. It's good to see all of you. Okay, bye all. Thanks, I mean. Thank you.