 Rabiu Kwankwasu speaks on the Third Force and says APC and PDP have failed Nigerians. And Rivers State APC rules out Seoul Gov. candidate for 2023. This is Plus Politics. I am Mary Anna Kohn. A former governor of Kainu State, Rabiu Kwankwasu has said both the People's Democratic Party PDP and the All Progressive Congress APC have failed Nigerians and according to him the Third Force will take over power from the APC in 2023. Alongside Kwankwasu, former Minister of Youth and Sports Development Salomon Dalong, popular Northern critic Buber Galadima and other prominent Nigerians inaugurated the national movement in Abuja. The former Kainu State Governor also said the Third Force planned to achieve real democracy in this country. Well, joining us to discuss this is legal practitioner Ladikbott Johnson. Thank you very much, Mr. Johnson, for joining us. Tell us what this Third Force is really about. I mean, aside from the fact that former Governor Kwankwasu is saying the major point of it all is to wrestle power from the APC, what exactly, it distincts the Third Force from every other Third Force that we've heard of? Well, what I can say. I can hear you. Yes. What I can say is that I think the genesis of the few members of the two major partners you saw yesterday, there were members of both the APC and the PDP and a lot of non-politicians and people from all walks of life who came together to form and to launch the national movement. Now, I think it is the people, the press, Nigerians as a whole who have turned it a Third Force and what is being said is that they are all, they've all remained in the various parties but are coming together to say that, look, we haven't reached our potential as a country. We haven't done what we should be doing in government, as government. Look, Nigeria, et cetera, et cetera. So they've come to that and they believe that they can work on all of these parties and negotiate to ensure that they deliver proper services to people of the country and when they are not, it will be only the Third Force that people have been talking about maybe institutes them. But one step of what was said yesterday was that you remain the member of the PDP and the message which they will be putting out will not just put out to the parties but also to the PDP after the APD. And as I said, you have people from both major parties as members of the TNM. Okay. Now, the former governor has said that the APC and the PDP, in his words, have failed Nigeria and Nigerians. Now, and he has also clearly stated that he's still a member of the PDP, which he is saying has failed Nigerians. Does that not one way or the other categorize him as part of the failure that he's making reference to? Well, yes, he's saying that the APC and the PDP have failed Nigerians, but he's a member of the People's Democratic Party. So is that not one way or the other, him indicting himself? He thinks it's governance. Nothing is perfect. We shouldn't see it as an indictment. You can say that this is what we have done, whether or not the people are suffering. The economy is not working. There's been security. Now, in both major parties, who have, have served the people. This is the last person who can tell you that for them, the staff is not in. There's no perfection. But we seek to do everything at the right time. So what he has stated in this poll, this is something that you need to know that the party, who is at the moment, People's Democratic Party, you can say the same about yourself. But he's saying, I don't know what the party is saying to the people again. Because he has solved programs over the years that are not able to program for the implementation of what is obvious in some people. Not that. But in recognition of the fact of where we actually should be as a country. And at the starting point. And saying that, I mean, all the things that you're saying now is what the average Nigerian are ordinarily understanding, that we're not what we are supposed to be. The plans and the programs and the promises that have been made have not in any way been fulfilled. But you cannot sit in a place and criticize that place for not doing right. And they keep doing what they've been doing. Now that we have the third force and the former governor is telling us that this third force will un-sit the APC. But then he also said that this third force has members from different political parties, I'm sure, including the APC and the PDP that he's criticizing. So if you're bringing all these people together on the one umbrella, trying to start a movement of sorts, what change are they going to effect if it's the same people who've been doing the same thing over and over again without any form of change? So what will the third force do to change all of that? Yes. I think you have a valid question. Look at it this way. Certain people run the party or the different parties at a particular time. And then certain people in government at a particular time. Now the fact that you're a member, a temporary member of a party does not mean that you are agreeing with the way the party is operating or if it is a party in government in the way government is being run. Unfortunately, it is only in Nigeria that you start getting all anti-party activities for, let's say, constructive criticism of a member of a party who says the minister or the governor or the president. It is in Nigeria that you get that. Now, what else that we have seen are parties, are they? We are not happy with the way things are being run. Those in the ruling party are saying we are not happy with the way government is running. So they have arrived to come together to forge a union to try to present and do a different, more efficient manner that puts Nigerians to do that. And we say that they are successful. Anyone that is to improve the growth of Nigerians, we should be praying for that. That they are successful. So I know that, yes, they are coming from the same parties and existing parties are coming together. But things will be the same way. I'm curious to know what the test of the pudding as they say, they have the test of the pudding as they say, they'll be eating. If it becomes a party or negotiates and goes and they go into another party above the history of the history, then let's just see what they want to do. I'm curious to know what the... We don't want them for certain. Majority of Nigerians are tired of what we have today from both of the major parties. I'm a member of one of the major parties. That doesn't mean I won't tell the truth. That means I'm not going the way we want them to go. Mr. Johnson, I'm curious to know who the front or the major key players in this movement are. Because you mentioned about, you know, certain persons running the big parties at certain times. And I'm wondering, was all of these key players, depending on who they are and whatever their gender is, will they not be vilified by the different political parties that they already are members of as having anti-party activities, being that this movement is very suggestive of something that is here to displace the so-called big parties? There again, I lost you again. All right, let me ask again quickly. In the issue of the major players, we would have hoped that someone like Marianne would have been a major player. I'm not surprised. I think Marianne is a major player as far as what I'm concerned. Then it was, as you know, had an existing movement, and it involves people at the grassroots level, the man on the street, and those are major players to me. Now, I know when you're going to your question, there are several names that have been mentioned or banded around, and all I would say is that you should know that when such things happen or come about, there will be many people who are interested who will wait for certain things to happen before, especially the people who are collecting government, they will want to wait for certain things to happen before they come out to be counted. All I would say is that from where I'm standing or sitting, I know that consultations have been going on for about a year and that there are many, many, many existing politicians who, from all parts of the country, who are involved. I also know that they've made particular effort to bring in a lot of youth and a lot of people who you do not know, we don't know their names. Their fresh faces, their new faces. Where we go from here, the good Lord will let us know. In fact, I don't think he has said that he's meeting the CP or that the other man is living in the APC or what have you. But whatever they want to do, in trying to better the thoughts of Nigeria and coming together to say that they want to influence the parties, the major parties and even the minor parties will wait and see to know what direction things will go. I'm not trying to be negative or pessimistic in any way but this sounds to me like what a merger of angry people, a merger of people who just want to grab power, I mean this is what she said that they want to wrestle power from the APC in 2023. But this sounds to me like this, a makeup of what the APC was. Can you hear me again? Alright, so I'm saying that this sounds to me like a merger of angry people who are dissatisfied for personal interest and want to wrestle power in 2023. It sounds like an APC to me but I ask if the plan is to wrestle power in 2023, is there a plan after if they do wrestle this power and get it, is there a plan or are we going to be facing another APC situation down the line? Well, what I got was about wrestling power to wrestle power. I'm saying is this going to be another APC situation? But what I'll say is that the intention, I think the basic intention is not just to wrestle power is not just to cover the government. I think the first and most important thing is to influence the way services are being delivered to the people of the country. I think that if anyone that really wants to help that is the first step. Now, in trying to do if your movement, as I say in quotes, catches fire and the people of Nigeria feel that yes, this is what we've been looking for. This is what we want. Now you might be able to go all the way to wrestle power as you put it or take over government fully but there are cases where we do not have to take over government or you can be part of governance. You can be part of governance. You can bring your influence to bear on governance. You can bring your influence to bear on the national economy and on the executive to make sure that things to grow in a particular direction. So I don't think that it's just about power grabbing. I'm not sure if that was a question or it's just about wrestling power. You said in general, is there a fit between the people functioning as? Unfortunately, we're having connection issues so I'm going to have to wrap the conversation up here. Mr Johnson, apologies. We're losing that connection with you. Baladipa Johnson is a legal practitioner and he's been speaking with us about the new movement that was flagged off yesterday in Abuja by former governor Kwon Kwon.