 Anyone here who has a problem with Hindi? You won't understand much Hindi? Okay, alright, I'll keep that in mind. So, I'm Smita Mishra and I'm the founder of our pool wallet. It's a P2P person-to-person payment app and what we are here for is discussing a quick case study of what we did, how we started, where we realized that we are not doing so well. I wouldn't really call it a failure, but yes, we were not doing as well and then how we pivoted and why we pivoted and what were the results of it. And frankly I didn't really invest a lot of time in making big slides because this is more of experience sharing. I would like to hear from you and I would like to share my thoughts. So, I would say it's better if we have quick conversations and not focus much on the slides. Okay, so let me start with who all here are entrepreneurs or planning to be one soon. Okay, how many of you build apps? You build apps? Okay, how many of you have stayed here in this room for last three sessions? You might as well just not hear anything I say because most of what I'm going to talk right now has already been covered in bits and pieces in different classes sessions before this. But yes, I have something very specific to talk about pool wallet which would be of, I am hoping of some help for you. Considering that only, I think I saw only one hand go up for building apps. Okay, we build apps. Pool wallet was an app that we built we consider ourselves as very smart people because I've been into IT industry for 14 years. So, I'm like, I'm obviously, I know everything about the apps and I know how to build apps and what are the steps for it. I've read it, I have practiced it, I have, in my eyes I have actually, I'm an authority on it, right? So, that's where I thought I felt very comfortable going ahead with pool wallet just as in the way it appeared to my mind. So, that's where we just started and these are four steps that we took to build the app which are very standard, I wouldn't say standard but really they are a progressive way of building an app. You first narrow down you define your product, what your product is going to do, you define your personas who are the kind of people who are going to use it, what are your storyboards which are the use cases for which they are going to be used, identify your target users and keep it narrow. Narrow in the sense, do not have a wide variety of users that says Indian woman of 35 years, that's like a, that's really wide, that's not something that you can specify, I mean you can specifically think of a person like that but you still cannot, there are so many aspects of that person which is like is she working, is she married, is she a school going, is she an educated, is she literate enough to handle her working. So, we have to keep it narrow. Then build your MVP, we've spoken about MVP right, a whole lot. This morning, I think in Tim or Timothy who was telling, no not Timothy, sorry, Arvind's session who was from Intuette, he was showing us a burnt pizza, right, that was a minimum viable pizza for him. But that wasn't something that his customer could have experienced. There's a burnt pizza and you're trying to validate your idea of building the cheapest pizza and you realize that you've failed but the fact is you've failed before your customer could even experience your service, your product. So, you've not really validated your idea. So, your idea when you're developing your product, it should be minimum experience product where your customer can have some minimum experience with your product, some meaningful experience and then decide whether he needs more, he needs less. So, that's MVP. I treat fast, speed is king. So, we followed all of this. We tried to build up our features as fast as we could and we kind of understood that if we do not do that quickly, we're going to be out of market. People who are going to download us today are not going to download us tomorrow if they don't find us useful and if they're not going to keep us on their devices anymore. Use tools and analytics. Anyone here? I know a lot of tools we discussed. Any analytics tools that we have used? So, anyone who has used for any activity? Google analytics. Anything else besides Google analytics that you use to analyze your traffic or anything like this on your app? Sorry? Anyone here who has heard heap? Heap is under startup. That's analytics. It's from the Bay Area. But the good part about heap is like in Google analytics, you have to actually paste the code in every page that you need to track. And what happens is you may have pasted it on 20 pages. What if you just forgot to do it on 2, 3 and you didn't think they were important. And after you do all the analysis, now you need some data. So, heap is the good product which will actually help you there. They'll take all the analytics. So, we did all the tool. We implemented the right tools. We used the right analytics. We did everything that was right to the as per the book. We tested. Now, there are different ways to test an app and the user experience of it at different stage. When we are strategizing the product, when we are actually executing or developing the product and when we are actually once we are done with the development and then we are assessing the product. So, there are different stages of a product and we tested differently. We did that all. Then let me just quickly show you how we define our product. The last step is simplify which once you've done all of this, I'll come back to simplify. But these are the two things I want to quickly share with you how we defined our product and what are the different ways of user research method that we applied. Can you define this? What is this project right? So, we picked this that how we defined the product like I think TV showed in his last session also a way to define this product. It's a generally relatable tool. So, when you are a when you have to actually mention about your tool, a lot of times people say Uber for food, Uber for truck, Uber for bikes, something like that because they're trying to refer to something which is already existing in market and then trying to say you know what we are doing this which is very similar to that in that domain. So, you should be able to relate your product to something unless it's obviously out of this complete domain. That allows target users at least add two adjectives to your target users what kind of users you are looking at and we do the to use case to do that particular activity. So, this is a projector which is like a probably a video showing tool or something like that whatever you would like to put in there that allows conferences and meetings people to share the same screen or be able to see the same screen together at a large number or in a larger room. So, you could define as you like. So, we did this we also understood that when we are designing our apps we don't have to focus more on the beauty of the apps, but we have to more focus on the good user experience which is anyone here who is seeing Reddit yeah which site is this I'm sorry it's small but Amazon which is this Craig list yeah how pretty are these sites one of the I mean going by the standard and technical beauty terms these are one of the really poor ones. I wouldn't call them ugly I mean if I could I would but so these are but how popular are these these are the leaders these are market leaders in their own segments everywhere they are right and this is what and we understood this as pool wallet we understood this also so we were like we don't have to focus on how beautiful you are making it we will make it in the best way so that the user is able to perform the activity that it is supposed to we followed this also we followed all the possible research methods we went to subject matter experts SMEs we did one on one interviews we did we tested our product as users we tried to take it to different kind of users that we thought real-time users and we made them use it before us so we did everything though there are so many ways of user research methods we did whatever we could apply on pool wallet why did we do all of this we wanted to be successful we wanted to be an app that is used by maximum people adoption and use these are the two metrics key metrics that typically defines an app how many are the download numbers and how much is the actual transaction happening on that app right anyone here who uses the patreon yeah how often once in three months TV how long how often two to three times a month you also use patreon right very rare four times a week that's right alright okay and I'll mention why we spoke about that this is what people think about right TV again showed the confusion part but I know that I have to develop this app I know that there are people who have answered me themselves that they want this app they would like to do something like this so I'm on the perfect right path I'm going to be the next unicorn and pool wallet is the thing now and I'm all set to do that and what happens actually and yet this is this is a far-fetched dream that we would be still successful but in the mid this is all the confusion and the ups and downs that are coming up let's let's just transform this for our plan what does it do to our development plan what you think is there is you have a clear goal you understand what you're planning to do you understand why you're doing it you've worked that through you've gone through the right processes so at the end of day you know that it's right there you could just approach it but what is the reality there will be days nobody downloads then you have to figure out what happened and then there will be days that people who have read are uninstalling so you have to figure out what's going on wrong today then there are days you walk into somebody and say it's like have you ever has anyone of you ever done a sales shop have you ever walked into a shop and said here buy this and they just bought it even B2B even after all the discussions have been done in the email you can't just walk to the person and say here it is we don't need to talk what we didn't probably I wouldn't say we missed but we should have probably talked a little bit more about what the app does before we started to send it to the users so this is what and look at this line that and there's a reason why I have this particular picture it is not mine I've picked it from Google but look at this graph and here's the graph it has such striking similarity that I was like okay this is something true this is actually what happens this is the number of downloads we started but this is after pivoting this is after pivoting so this is still a better diagram better graph okay so let's after all the all the gun let's come to what pool wallet was we did all the right things we understood how do we build apps we went through step by step and then we finally realized let's now come to we were not doing what we were supposed to we were not going there we were thinking that we will go anybody here who had heard pool wallet before he came to this conference that was because they are connected any other payment apps that you use wallet I'll come to a very good aspect of these wallets that we missed so this was the everywhere if you switch on the television you have got oxygen back then there was this cricket team that was coming to India around September October and oxygen was heavily promoting it bring them as guests and things like that so we were like so big them fixed every wallets are doing so well we are also we researched out everybody is downloading wallets there were apps which were downloaded 6000 per day there were 6000 downloads per day such apps we are not wrong right we can't be this wrong so we said instead of a user going through X wallet then Y wallet because we have we have named here four there are pockets in India chiller anyone else all the banks are coming up with their own wallets so every new day there is a new wallet that is coming up so what does a merchant do if a merchant has to cater to all these users how does it happen he will have to technically integrate with each of the wallet to be able to use the money from there what we did was we are going to be the pool of the wallet and we are going to be a plug-in for the merchants and what we are so this is what we thought in our mind but when we started to and our key metric constantly was number of downloads for some reason we were very hung on the downloads number of downloads what we sold our pool wallet as it's a wallet of wallets and it's like okay how many of us actually share I'm sorry do you with your friends and actually share your bills anyone here who actually shares the bill and says okay split amount going Dutch split wise okay how often have you done that every day okay alright that's an interesting thing so what we were suggesting people was we were we thought this is our ideal customer right right here who splits every bill if he goes out to eat if he goes to movie if he goes to gift something he'll split the money right that's our ideal customer who are these kind of customers we did not imagine you sort of we imagined college going kids we imagine kids young people young professionals have just started to earn but they don't have a married family so their spending trend was their spending trend is different and that that's where we started to sell this as a app which you can actually use to pool the money together if he has moped quick you have oxygen you have a patium you all can pool in together and spend spend the money there right that's how we started to sell people started to ask where do we use that how do we because we don't share so where do we use it and we started to actually tell them okay you could share it you could use it for shared services you could use it for caps you could use for movies if different kids are in different countries you could use it to share your parents health care bills so we even we even went to that extent of giving them use cases corporate giftings but what actually happened after all the efforts and these are the original after my cousin he lives in Chhattisgarh my cousin he saw this app he called me up and he said he's the elder to me so I said yeah bhaiya he said yeah karun kya main saab se that means what should I do with this app I was like yeah it's for sharing right it's it's go ahead where your sharing amounts just use it where is the sharing I was like right there come on create a wow is wishes and wants so whatever you want to and we created multiple number of youtube videos explaining that wow but we never thought why not just change this wow take it off because when a person looks at it nobody looks at an app and then says let me go to this youtube video learn the app and then come back and use it nobody does that right so it should have occurred to us that let's get rid of this wow word and start with pools or something what we did was have a wow word where we have the discussions and we literally made the pooling app exactly how we talk I'll invite you guys for the sharing and if you guys accept it then you have to pay for it so it became a whole lengthy process the pooling process the product and then once you accept the payment then converts into a product which is a financial product it was such a huge lengthy process and that was the only thing you could do in the app so if you could not understand that one aspect of the app then God alone knows what you would do with it because you didn't have anything else to do in that app you had payments but it was so layered it was underneath and on top of it there were so many things that was difficult okay guys wake up anybody who is sleeping so what was the result of this what did we do we had some downloads don't look at don't look at that part of it just go from the first half to this half and can you see we somehow we pushed downloads because when we actually started the app we pushed for it and lot of people did download it and we were happy to start with they were happy but then it started to decline we couldn't get new downloads the downloads we got were actually getting installed so we needed to understand where are we going wrong and that's when we moved on to our new business model now this business model was nothing new besides the fact that we just highlighted what we were doing anyways we had all the wallets we had credit card debit card net banking and we highlighted that so we just highlighted that we added features like DTH recharge mobile recharge how many of you actually use any app for their mobile payments bill payment which apps not app banking app okay for electricity bill okay DTH recharge but most of us may not still be using a single app for doing lot of things right so we thought this was an area where we could help Paytm obviously has that but then Paytm expects people to have wallet some money in the wallet to be able to spend so we said we don't even want that and frankly when we actually put all of this we realized that at the end of day what we are only talking about is requesting payments and making payments we don't care if it is as a pooled one if it is one on one if it is between merchant and consumer if it is between one business and other business all we are talking about is requesting payments and making payments so that's what we did what were the results here actually somebody said the hockey stick or the J curve and things we actually saw that happening to us very recent but it's there and we actually now happy we are now getting busy which is a good problem to have now we come to our session this was all the background alright we start what is pivoting what do you think it is and there is lot of text here don't even try to read it because if you read it and you understand this part then you might as well just walk on because this is the crux of pivoting what we are saying is and what I actually want to hear from you do you think pivoting is bad do you think it's sign of weakness or failure you failed and therefore pivoted have you ever pivoted in your life forget apps forget okay so we will come to both the parts do you want to say something pivoting as per Alan spoon is when your team realizes that your plan A is not working let's put together a plan B and let's see if that works for you and if it doesn't then you have to go to plan C you have to keep iterating until and unless you get that scalable business model and if we come to a different definition that I picked up it's the same thing it's a strategy for iteratively searching for a repeatable and scalable business model what was what did Amazon do before like today it sells everything right what what did it sell earlier only books right that's that evolution where it decided that they could actually sell something more that's also a way of pivoting what is Google was a search engine right that to 12th on its rank when it started what is it today it's everything it's actually everything it's got droid it's got apps it's got ecosystem it's got everything it's got maps by Chromebook is not so popular you would have to search it on yeah it's not so popular compared to maybe there are things that they want to pick up later I mean I really would not have the right answer for it right now any other pivoting that you could cite that you are aware of what pivoting is I mean which companies have actually pivoted type of things that they were making anyone here twitter do you know why it has only 140 characters why not 120, 180, 160, why 140 SMS because it was originally an application for subscribing and downloading and listening to podcasts and then which was called audio and then iTunes was coming in so they knew that they would get killed they have to pivot from there that's where twitter came in and it became a communication app there within the company therefore it had SMS 140 characters and so these are Instagram was bourbon which was a gaming platform and they had all the elements of that mafia wars and all those kind of games and then they realized there is so much of clutter let's cut down so that's what we also did for coming back to the pivoting thing so it's a strategy for iteratively searching for a repeatable and scalable business model so we at Cool Wallet understood this that we had to pivot but where were we going wrong we were unable to figure that out and so we looked at the business model and this is again this is a lean canvas for standard business model cite your problems where does an app take birth at which stage where do you think that app starts this is where the concept of app is there where do we start it what does it start with an idea is a belief necessity problem to solve I would go with that yes there is lot of times what happens great men think alike right so I am going to think same way that you are going to think so we all will have great ideas which are actually good but where we fail is at the execution somebody executes the same solution so well they are successful and that's where we were trying to understand what are we doing that's not so correct and we looked at our business model so this is a standard lean canvas where you put your three problems features key matrix that you want to measure on the product side on the market side there are a lot of market market factors also which are beyond your control so even if I am doing my best as pool wallet there are things which certainly patium comes and pumps in 600 crores in the fintech market every other wallet which was otherwise doing good is not doing good now it's not their fault it's not like they failed it's just that somebody else did something which was which is an unfair advantage to them given by the market right so we were we kind of analyzed ourselves on this and then we actually now this is where our pivoting story starts so we had our users we I actually myself try to understand and I spoke to 120 of our initial users one on one 120 calls which ranged from 5 minutes to 30 minutes each could be spoke to each user why because at the time that we launched pool wallet we were invited by nascon product conclave to showcase there in Bangalore they were selected for it they are also the nascon product of the week for sometime in November and then we keep getting a lot of attention from two different aspects one is from the product and printech aspect one is from the woman in tech aspect that maybe that's because I'm the founder so we keep getting very a lot of attention from these two areas and they want to see it grow because a lot of investors keep talking to us and every time the point at which we stop is traction and we knew that traction is super important for us every day and I know that a gentleman here this morning talked about organic growth but if you have to really scale up in the way that is like you can sustain in the market and his business model was different so I can't comment on that but I would think that for such for a pool wallet kind of business you need capital you need good investment to be able to do good marketing and be able to take it forward so we were running around investors and we got stuck at traction that's where we did the 120 calls what we realized was and because of all the attention that I mentioned we were getting I got invited to a college in Lucknow Babu Banarasi Das University which has 10,000 students across their MBBS engineering MBA dental everything so I was speaking there and Rana Athea from dogspot.in was also there speaking he's just got funded by Tata that Mr. Ratan Tata so we were speaking about the apps and how we should grow and think like that I spoke to the kids there and they were all like yes we share we eat together we go to movies together I was like this is the perfect platform you like 10,000 students they are there I could just get this app through them and when I started to talk to them they were like yes yes ma'am we will do it we'll do it most of them downloaded then nobody did anything then a lot of them uninstalled I was like what happened and so half of these 120 were actually students from that university and what we realized was they said things like madam we share to karthi hain but asa nahi hota ki rose ka hum hesaap kar hain it is like what we do is is baat to pay kar de aagli baar mape karunga types of discussion like you pay it this time we pay it next time if you go to movies one person pays it this time another person pays it next time but it never happens that you exactly excuse me share the amount each time it didn't happen so I was like ok so somewhere you must be sharing right so we came down to gifting marriage gifting birthday gifting baby showers everything but things like that happened once in a while and so the use case that we had was ok so once in 3 months when you have to do that sharing you will go to app store or play store download pool wallet and then do the sharing and that's that's unrealistic to expect of the users. Jo apps hain wa hi use nahi gata hain and Paytm is there so popular but we have I mean only one out of so many people 3 out of so many people are using Paytm. It's an app which just caters to one use case which you do once in 3 months so you this rare chance that this will ever scale or succeed that was our main point where we realized that our use case is not scalable it's there it's a need but it's not a need that everybody would want to use for so what do we do now so we went to our next and then whenever we used to explain the app to anybody they would be more interested in everything else but the pooling part they would be like pooling to the or can I make payments can I accept payments can I request payments yes you can can I plug it in as a payment gateway yes you can so a lot of traction that we got we realized was from there so I would like to compare this situation to anyone who's had Wrigley gums chewing gum Wrigley you like it anyone who doesn't like it so that guy his name was Williams Wrigley junior he used to sell soap in an open market in Chicago in 1980s and he used to give chewing gums as a free offer so that the people would buy their by his soap what he realized was his chewing gums got so popular that he eventually started to sell chewing gums and now you know where he is so kind of we are also trying to build our history so we realized that everything else that we never thought was important because we tried to put everything underneath the pooling so pooling is the main thing and then under it you have payments you can be integrated with merchants you can be used as payment gateways everything was there but we never highlighted them and when we spoke to our users that's when we realized what we'll be doing wrong our entire you understand anatomy yeah what is the anatomy anatomy is the outline the outer structure of something so our anatomy of our research user research was perfect we did everything right it's like the anatomy of being friends and networking it's the same two people come they have coffee they talk something they go back friends also do that what is the differentiator is that the networking people talk work also in between they go back and follow up but just by looking at it you can't say they can be two friends they can be two friends similarly everything that the user research needed we did we spoke to the users we built the app stepwise we narrowed down our target users we did everything that was really important what we forgot to do was ask the right question we asked them the question but we asked them will you be will you do you pull do you share of course I share who's gonna say no I don't share Sarajit shares every day right but it's like I should have asked how often do you share or maybe we should have put a question which tells us which actually was meaningful for the use of the app in terms of frequency in terms of volume of transaction we never really focused on that focus on the fact do you do this yes we do this with whom friends family okay so that's where our app which I got made so it kind of failed at the right questions there so okay that and then what happened after we actually started to ask the right questions we segregated the feedbacks and what we realized was that most of the people like I asked you how many people do this payment that payment bill payment payment or mobile bill payment so what we realized was lot of us have similar kind of expenses similar kind of spending trend but we spend through different ways so we segregated those top 3-4 use cases where we realized most of us do it this way or that and then we put them in the we highlighted because you already had those features we had to highlight them and make them more so that people understood that they could use it home delivery is one such case which actually gave us has started to give us lot of traction so an app imagine and a pooling app which just has payments in it now we go to a home delivery guy and we say do you do what do you do if your customer is not at home and their son is there at home and you have to deliver food we said okay how about how about you giving a call to them and saying I am handed out the food to your son make the payment and they make it payment right then using pool wallet because they have your pool wallet ID and all they have to do is make the payment there then we went to new upcoming retail house retail shops like women entrepreneurs who are doing lot of work from their homes or boutiques and places like that they can't afford to do COD cash on delivery they have all the e-commerce set up so many carts there are so many what do you call them rocket cart there are so many template based e-commerce sites where you can just list your products sell them but for COD you have to manage your own stuff we went to them and we said why do you do COD why not do POD pay on delivery do not collect cash but the same thing that they do not the same amount that they can pay cash they could pay through their net banking credit card or debit card once they receive the delivery you don't need a swipe machine you don't need anything your pool wallet ID is there your user can actually just pay to it right so that's one and then market revisiting wallets can you again raise hands sorry I forgot how many of us actually does use wallet 1 2 3 4 5 okay when we went to markets frankly we got a very poor response for wallets multiple kind of questions do we have to put money because and unfortunate for us unfortunate for pool wallet that our name I mean even if it is fortunate but our name is pool wallet so anybody who hears us because we started as a pool of wallet anybody who hears our names thinks we are a wallet so they think okay so we have to keep money from you but what we didn't what the wave that we wanted to ride on that was being a wallet and collection of wallets that actually was a on the flip side it was a bad decision from that perspective because a lot of people are still not comfortable using wallets they don't want to use wallets they are not digitally active I myself don't buy a lot of things ecom I mean online so I don't I was like yes maybe I should not talk about that so we actually explained our merchants again it's called pool wallet so you can actually use credit card debit card so what anyone of us here who does online shopping what do you shop for I mean if it's not for sure electronics books electronics books nobody clothes clothes many baby products okay and how do you make the payments okay it said that 70% of ecommerce of India is still COD I don't like to believe that but it's just said I don't make that data is correct more digitally active yes yeah and going just to add to that point Amazon has Amazon doesn't deliver in UP anybody knew that the pilferage is so high in that state they have stopped delivering there they don't deliver in there in the UP sorry they don't take orders from their area Amazon doesn't take order from that area that includes Noida also which is surprising yeah but very specific and in that also I thought that at least the bigger cities of UP would be given some preference they absolutely block those pin codes from there yeah especially in electronics okay another pivoting that we took was channels to reach our customers we were earlier thinking of individuals the college students the young professionals and we were actually approaching them what we did was we are still approaching them we still want them to actually use us for pooling as well as payments but we pivoted from there and we started to say that okay let's be merchant driven let's go to merchants and say you use us so we are now anyone heard no filter there is a famous pub and bar in SDA in Delhi so we are talking to them we have bakeries like rainbows and pretty popular bakeries there which have registered with us as merchants so what it does is there you will go to those shops you will see pooled wallet ID hanging in there so all you have to do is pick your stuff get your invoice and wherever you are standing you just make the payment and you show them and you move so especially during the festival times or times when or party times or times when there is really good crowd at that place you don't really have to wait for your billing and stuff like that you can just do it and move on that's catching up that's one use case which is working very good for pool wallet right now another was e-commerce sites so a lot of people like Baibo, Baibo is a Chandigarh based e-commerce card what that does is it allows you to list your products they offer you the shopping card and you can in short have your e-commerce website we are there plugin for payments so each of their customer who makes a buy there on their any of their partners goes to our payment so those are the kind of use cases which are coming up better for us than what we were doing earlier yeah just kidding so we actually came up with new story boards so when we decided to pivot what all things we really did was user research again do the right question ask the right questions figure out new storyboards how we could use this app differently so those those are the various steps that we did here but how is it how is it different we understand this and we measured them so we obviously showed the graph which was a J curve which went better now I have this last question before we go through how is pivot we also agreed that pivot is not a bad thing because pivoting means that you are probably not scaling up doesn't mean you are wrong you just need to figure out that right thing that you can actually scale up with so you can iterate and keep iterating and then obviously if not one then maybe tomorrow if pool wallet doesn't succeed with this we will figure out some new storyboards try to scale up with them would it be good for us to actually at some point give up and say I don't know yeah this doesn't seem to be working let's let's find something else let's do something else yes no how many yes let's go ahead how many depend on the context okay how many are flat no that no don't do that no point giving up okay most entrepreneurs are indeed very passionate about their dreams about their the problem that they are solving so when we are pivoting we are still attached as we are still attached to the problem but we change the solutions we try one solution then and there but we are trying to more or less solve the same problem if we are trying to it may not be exactly same but we are trying to solve the related problem we are actually moving towards our dream a particular passion that we share but at some point in time there is a limit when how much you can pivot when that stickiness is over when when that stickiness to that problem is over maybe that's the time when you need to jump because as long as you are sticking with the problem and you keep changing your solutions you still have scope to pivot and scale but if you are if you have tried everything if you pivoted like he said in context how many times you pivoted if you truly tried all your all your ideas you used all your brain power you talked to everybody possible everyone that you could possibly talk to and you have came to that point where you realize I don't know I'm running out of ideas I don't know what more to do I don't know what more to do with this app how many what kind of more users I can bring in that's the time that maybe you need to take a jump that's the time when you need to say okay enough with pivoting let's move on but in any case the best part about all this the faster you fail the faster you realize what's going wrong instead of putting in more investments but having more users that are disappointed you need to fail fast and the moment you see yourself failing you need to pivot through the next step does that make sense to you alright thanks for all of you any any questions anybody which one that was the third version actually when we let me show you a graph which will I don't know if you can see from can you see some dots there yeah we messed up there on those points and we have new versions there like it's like almost deleted the previous one is deleted and there's a new version ideally it should have been an upgrade and why we did why we messed up with that was we changed platforms on which we built our apps we couldn't upgrade so at the end of it we finally now the numbers that you are seeing are this is March right so it would be like 12th of March that you would be seeing we have now if you put all of them together 515100 about from that okay so if you are here who heard about think test that happened last year November there was a testing conference that we held in Delhi what happened was and it's our app only the reason we are not talking about it is because we actually made it for our use but we'll see how it goes for example all of us are here but we are not connected socially right now tomorrow he goes back he puts loads of some pictures he uploads some experiences I will never get to see it because I have no idea who he is I am not connected to him so we created Winker and we had that experience when I was organizing a conference in Delhi think test so what I did was I would see every random like third day some picture shared through X through Y through Z then finally it comes to me I was like oh okay this was also click that also happened oh this this was happening at this corner so as an organizer I was a little I was disappointed I really wanted to see all of them so we created Winker where all if anyone can just go and load pictures and you don't have to really know them socially to see it but we are it's that's the reason because from the same company you're seeing it