 Give the people what they want. Give the people what they want. Give the people what they want. Your weekly movement news round up. Zoe, it's the 146th episode of Give the People What They Want, which as you know, is brought to you by People's Dispatch, where you are the co-editor. Today, our other host Prashant is not with us. We're going to come back to that in a minute. I'm Vijay from Globetrotter. Really happy to be with you. Tough circumstances for this show. This show is intimately related to something that has been happening in India since October 3rd. I think Zoe, if it's okay, I'm going to relate the story a little bit and then you can come in and talk about the impact and what's been playing out. Well, on October 3rd, which is the day after Mahatma Gandhi's birthday, an important day in India, roughly 500 police officers went across the city of Delhi. These are the Delhi police officers, but it's important to bear in mind that in India, the Delhi police isn't just the police department of the city of Delhi, but is under the direct control of the Home Ministry of the Government of India. The Home Minister of India is Amit Shah, very close ally of Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Mr. Amit Shah's police department went across the city of Delhi, interrogated journalists, went into their homes, looked at their phones, looked at their computers, seized a number of computers and phones, not only in Delhi but also in Mumbai, in India's commercial capital, also in Hyderabad, journalists, researchers, people affiliated to, in any way, social justice schemes, their homes were raided. At the end of the day when the dust settled, two people were arrested, Prabir Purkayasth, the editor and founder of NewsClick. NewsClick very closely working with People's Dispatch. That's why I said this is a kindred. This is a story close to us. Also, Amit Chakravati, who heads the Human Relations Department at NewsClick, both remain in remand. They've been held by the Delhi police on a first information report handed to the courts in Delhi. Now, we have read the first information report, the PDF of which is circulated pretty widely in India and has been reported on by other news outlets. The first information report to my mind appears sort of bizarre. It makes connections which is hard to sustain that Prabir Purkayasth, a well-known engineer, a well-known science and technology advocate, the president of the free software movement of India, founder and editor of NewsClick, Mr. Prabir Purkayasth is somehow involved in a deep conspiracy to, I don't know, it's very unclear from the FIR, the first information report exactly what this conspiracy is about. You see, there's a lot of words there. There's a lot of insinuations and connections. What is the precise conspiracy? And the reason I say this is that the journalists who were interrogated by the Delhi police who asked the following kinds of questions. Did you cover the protests at Shaheen Bagh and across India against the change of the citizenship law? Did you cover the farmers' movements? Did you cover the Delhi riots that took place in Silampur and other parts of Delhi? Did you cover the COVID measures and COVID lockdown in India? Now, those are the questions asked of the journalists and it's interesting. Paranjay Guha Thakuta, one of the journalists loosely affiliated with NewsClick who was also rated, picked up, interrogated for eight, nine hours. When he came out of the interrogation, he said, look, these are the questions I was asked. Of course, I covered the farmers' protests. I mean, of course, because indeed any self-respecting journalist who doesn't cover these issues is conducting a dereliction of duty. You have to cover the farmers' movement. It's a major process of our times. There was Mr. Paranjay Guha Thakuta saying, I covered it. Of course, I covered it. You have to cover these things. That's on the one side. They asked these questions quite aggressively. Did you do this? Did you do that scaring young journalists telling them that their lives were under threat that they could be arrested and so on? Intimidating people with questions basically that are, if you boil it down, did you do your job? Yes, I did my job. I covered things that were in the news. On the other hand, when you read the FIR, it doesn't actually talk much about the farmers' movement or the Shaheen Bagh protests or the Delhi riots. It doesn't talk much about India's COVID lockdowns. Although there is a mention of COVID lockdowns and so on in the FIR. The FIR alleges that there's a conspiracy that includes the Communist Party of China. It's a very bizarre document. And the discrepancy between what was asked of the journalists in interrogation and what is written in the FRI is puzzling. If I was the judge in this case, and to be quite honest, I don't even have a legal degree. But if I was a judge in this case, I would say there is no prima facie evidence for any of this. I mean, if the FIR is talking about a Chinese conspiracy, why are you asking the journalists about the farmer's movement, about Shaheen Bagh and so on? Why don't you ask them about the Chinese conspiracy? If the problem is that you're not supposed to cover the farmer's movement, why doesn't the FRI talk about that? The discrepancy between the two is puzzling and needs to be thought about. Well, Ruby Purkayas and Amit Chakravati are under remand in the Delhi police's special cell. There have been several court discussions about whether the... In fact, the Delhi police wanted the remand to last for 15 days, not just seven days. That was fortunately denied by the judge. No clarification whether the remand will not be extended. And the reason why the remand might be extended, which is why this is chilling, is that the accusations in the First Information Report are based on not any law, but on the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act of 1967, an extremely draconian law that was put in place by the Indian government that effectively invalidates the right of the accused for exercising freedom of movement. habeas corpus is pretty much suspended by UAPA. It's a very dangerous law. Having booked people at least until the remand stage under UAPA, this puts a lot of pressure on the defense attorneys to be able to get their clients bail. There is no reason why journalists should be in prison for doing their job. But Zoe, this arrest and the raids, particularly on hundreds of people, this has occasioned a great backlash in India and abroad. Tell us a little bit about what you have been covering at People's Dispatch regarding this pushback and of course the statement that has been circulating in solidarity with the arrested journalists. Yes, well, I think that while this was an extremely chilling and shocking action and it continues to be, the response has been overwhelmingly in support of the news coast journalists really rejecting this atrocious attack on press freedom, on the right to freedom of expression, so many other kind of civil liberties which were undermined, not even to mention the irregularities that took place during the raids, the lack of not following due process, so many other elements. And I think what was really inspiring was that even while the raids were taking place at the Press Club of India in New Delhi, there was already a meeting of journalists, of concerned people who were gathering, trying to figure out what's the response to this, but all overwhelmingly saying that we must rally, we must mobilize against this and the press club has held several rallies since then, press clubs and cities across India as well have held meetings and have had rallies of journalists, of people involved in the press to really say that again, an attack against one is an attack against all and I think that people are really understanding with the expansive nature of this attack is that it's no longer a time to say we're going to distance ourselves from these people because they're XYZ, it's clear that no one is really is safe from these attacks on press freedom and that it's so important to rally behind so that one isn't next in these sort of attacks. And so I think that's been really incredible to see all of the journalists across India rallying. There have been also protests in cities and university campuses organized by the Students Federation of India, Democratic Youth Federation of India as well as well as many other mass movements that I have really understood that again, not only is it an attack against press but it's an attack on human rights and it's an attack on civil liberties. This is not an isolated attack and we know at People's Dispatch and of course NewsClick primarily has been covering this repressive crackdown on anyone who's in opposition to government policies whether it be in the area of agriculture or workers' rights or rights of women. These are crucial issues and the message that's being sent is that if you're going to speak about this then you should expect that your house could get raided, that you could be brought in, that your family will be terrorized. And so I think that's why there's been such an outpouring of solidarity within India and internationally as well. Maybe the government wasn't expecting such an outpouring of solidarity. I mean on one hand also the news coverage from mainstream outlets, from BBC, from the New York Times itself has actually been quite sympathetic to NewsClick for bringing out the political motivation, the baselessness of these accusations and really what it represents as really undermining these fundamental rights and liberties. As you said we've seen this incredible open letter of solidarity from over 300 journalists, writers, artists, political leaders including Sinn Fein MP Chris Hazard, Sevim Daglan from Germany, just many, many names of people who understand that India may be a far off country to them but that these attacks on press freedom again undermine all of our rights I think as well as the brother of Julian Assange, Gabriel Shipton who's been the stalwart in the fight against tax freedom of the press. So all of these elements are really important. I think that it's at moments like these where international solidarity is so important. Both to show the people at NewsClick are colleagues that they're not alone calling for the immediate release of Prabir and Amit, calling for their rights to be respected, rejecting these attacks, making sure that they feel that they're not alone but also showing to the government that's taking forward these repressive acts that it won't be tolerated and that I think that it's an interesting place to be. For example here in New York we did a rally that was just outside the New York Times headquarters, the office understanding the role that institutions like the New York Times play in furthering these attacks. Again I said they covered the raid and they also mentioned that they were complicit in giving the evidence from which this whole raid was carried out on. So there's really something for everyone to do in rejecting these attacks. I encourage people to check out the letter that's on our website, People's Dispatch, sign, organize a rally, rejecting these attacks on press freedom. Journalists are not neutral subjects in today's society. We're not standing on the sidelines, we're active participants and the right to free press, the right to freedom of expression is such a fundamental one that really makes democracies. And I think in a lot of the statements that we've seen in response to the attacks, especially statements coming out of India, this idea of democracy and how to take care of this democracy, this young democracy, a country that's called the largest democracy in the world and how can these sort of attacks happen. And that news click is actually a fundamental outlet that is actually promoting and protecting democracy. You know it's true and I just want to make a personal note, news click is now 14 years old. I was there at the very start of news click in 2009 and worked in news click in different ways right through the years. We moved from a very tiny little studio to the current studio which the government had sealed this week. And then you know, off and on, on and off, open the seal and so on. Very disturbing how this publication has been treated since the raids of 2021. Praveer Purkayastha has been my friend for over 30 years. It's a very disturbing situation and I hope very much that, you know, this gets resolved in a way that does justice proud and not, you know, in any other direction. You're with give the people what they want, we're brought to you by People's Dispatch. That's Zoe and Prashant. Prashant is not here today because Prashant was also interrogated in that sweep. And we are very cognizant of the fact that our dear Prashant is under the scanner of the Delhi police. And we hold him close in our hearts now and always, of course, also brought to you by Globetrotter, that's me, Vijay. Other stories as well, we don't want to spend the whole half hour on news click, although there is that temptation. There was a UN Security Council vote, Zoe on Haiti. Not a quick report necessary. I mean, not a long report necessary on that, but what are the basics? What was that? What was that UN Security Council vote on Haiti? What are the implications? Well, there is the famous saying that history repeats itself and history does seem to be repeating itself without any sort of memory. Because again, the UN Security Council authorized a foreign military intervention into Haiti, a force that will be led by Kenya. Kenya has offered a thousand police officers to participate in this mission. And it's extremely, extremely concerning. This is a move that has been widely, widely rejected by all sectors of Haitian society. This military intervention is essentially authorized in response to the growing security crisis facing the country. This is a situation that has been deeply exacerbated by the fact that the Haitian people have not actually had the autonomy and ability to actually dictate what happens in the political affairs of their country. Jovenel Moises was assassinated, you know, just over a year and a half back. He was replaced by a core group appointed political leader, Ariel Henry. The Haitian people in response to the assassination, which of course they rejected, had come up with a plan for transitional government. Jovenel's assassination happened after he had already overstayed his constitutional term. The people had already been drafting and formulating plans about how can we have a peaceful transition of power, rebuild democracy in the country. Then, of course, he's assassinated. Ariel Henry is appointed prime minister. And since then he's been ruling a de facto government with no elected body, with no legislature, with undermining the power of the courts. And in this situation, the power of armed groups and gangs in the country has expanded. Many believe in direct collusion with Ariel Henry. And this has created a serious situation where there's massacres taking place, you know, selective assassinations. A really, really complicated situation. It's not to undermine and deny the fact that Haitian people are dealing with an unprecedented situation. However, we know it happened with the Minoustan Haiti. This cause, this intervention, which happened in the early 2000s, led by Brazil at the time, oversaw massacres, mass human rights violations, sexual assault, the introduction of cholera, which was devastating in Haiti. Crimes for which that have not been paid for, that have had no reparation, that have no justice. And Haitian people are continuing to grapple with the impacts of this intervention. And once again, the UN authorizes this multinational military intervention, further putting at risk the rights of the Haitian people who are simply demanding to be free, to have political autonomy, to have sovereignty, to be able to have relationships with countries in the region that they want to, and to be able to dictate the future, their political and economic futures. An important story also, of course, Haiti, ravaged by various kinds of environmental disasters. There was a terrible environmental disaster in North Sikkim. The Lonak Glacier Lake went over its bounds, probably 100 people, maybe 200 people missing already, two, three dozen people already said to be dead. In 2021, the Indian Institute of Science published a report saying that this was going to happen, that the Lonak Lake in northern Sikkim was going to exceed its bounds. The glacier barriers wouldn't hold, consequence partly of climate change, bad planning, et cetera, et cetera. A planned situation, by the way, replicating, but in a smaller scale, what happened in Libya. But this has happened in Sikkim. Now, this comes at the same day that the UN Children's Fund UNICEF released a report. This is perhaps one of the most chilling reports that I've read. It's called Children Displaced in a Changing Climate, Preparing for a Future That's Already Underway. Okay, it's a pretty chilling report. What this report says is that 43 million children in 44 countries have been displaced as a consequence of floods, wildfires and so on. 43.1 million children in 44 countries over the past four years. That's 20,000 children a day have been displaced from their homes as a consequence of unnatural climatic changes. This was stunning. It's a stunning report. Now, what's interesting, 20,000 children a day, hard to wrap your head around it. What are the reasons that they give? Well, as I said, floods, 10 countries with the greatest displacement are due to floods. Bangladesh, Ethiopia, China, India, Nigeria, so on. Secondly, tropical storms, drought, wildfires. This is the reason why UNICEF emphasizes this phrase that this is because of a changing climate. In other words, climate change. I'm going to come back at the end of our show today, Zoe, to talk a little bit about the new meeting being held by the Pope, Pope Francis, where he's discussing his new document. Come back and talk about that. There's a lot of worry about climate change and so on, but this is the first report that has been produced by an international agency that specifically looks at the question of children. You know, I've reported from war zones before and I can tell you something that is often ignored is the fact that a war zone is extraordinarily noisy, very noisy. It's a very dirty environment. There's a lot of dust in the air. Children in a war zone get afraid of that sound, the sound of planes, bombs, gunfire, that noise pollution creates a sonic terrorism for children. And then the dust sometimes laced with toxic chemicals produces all kinds of lung problems, including premature lung cancers and so on. We saw this in Iraq, famously, where the United States was using depleted uranium. A lot of children developed early onset cancers of various kinds, especially lung cancer. We've been beginning to understand what a war does to children. I don't think there's a complete recognition in this UNICEF report goes somewhere to addressing that complete recognition of what these climate disasters do to children. So the UNICEF report talks about how when a forest fire comes towards a child's home, this is terrorizing. You know, the very place of their safety disappears in a flood, disappears in a fire, disappears in a cyclone hurricane and so on. But this is not just the children who were killed or who have to run. It's also children who have to see these disasters right in front of them. It's a very interesting report, a very important report. I hope it'll get more coverage and also more discussion. I'd like to hear UNICEF researchers talking about it. She gives me an idea, might do an interview with one of them for people's dispatch. That could be interesting. We're talking about displacement, Zoe. One thing about internal displacement, 43 million children in four years. We've seen an uptick in external displacement. A lot of emphasis placed on the Mediterranean. But I must say, there's a lot of people migrating all over the world, friends. Everybody's not just trying to get to Europe. They're migrating inside Africa. They're migrating inside Asia. And yes, of course, they are migrating within Latin America. But there's another European story, an Italian migrant boat seizure. Tell us what that story is. Well, I think that I agree that there is a lot of focus given on this kind of quest for Europe, et cetera. But I think that what's interesting in this story is really what it says about Europe and the kind of leaders that they have right now, which is that a boat that rescues migrants lost at sea. And as we know, the Mediterranean is one of the biggest graveyards that there is because of the number of capsized boats and people that die while at sea while trying to cross this sea. And a boat which had just rescued about 176 migrants and different trips was seized by Italian authorities and given a fine which could be up to 10,000 euros. And that has been kind of, they're not allowed to take it out and to continue their missions. I think that the fact that such a simple act of solidarity of literally saving lives, literally people who are drowning, they go and save them. This is intolerable by the government of Georgia and Maloney. And what's interesting is that this isn't even a new phenomenon. The fact of reprimanding people who are doing this kind of work, who are going out and trying to save, you know, what they can. This isn't by any means an exhaustive operation that they're doing. As we know, there are hundreds and hundreds of migrants that are dying constantly because of this treacherous voyage. But even this little effort, this little grain of sand, which is again, literally saving lives is criminalized. So I think it's really an indictment on the European ruling class. The lengths they're willing to go and the stories they're willing to tell themselves to justify such inhumane actions. I mean, who is going to go after people trying to literally save them from drowning? Well, it's interesting because Georgia and Maloney just made a major seminar with Rishi Sunak of Great Britain around the question of the migrant crisis saying, you know, essentially, let's keep them at home. Well, it's true. People don't necessarily want to migrate. If you stop ruining the economies with your so-called neoliberal policies and so on, maybe people will be able to make rich lives in their home countries. You can't have it both ways. You can't bomb their countries and then tell them you can't come here. So there's that. Well, that's what the Pope, you know, in a sense not far from where Ms. Maloney has her office in Rome. The Pope is in the Vatican just down the street. He is conducting a synod and a big discussion around his new encyclical. The old one in 2015 was called Laudato Si, Praise Be. The new one, 7000 word text, very interesting text called Laudato Deum or Praise God is fascinating. It opens with the climate crisis in which the Pope essentially says, look, fellas, you haven't solved it. And if he had to add data, he could mention that 43 million children in four years have been displaced. Then he talks about technological possibilities. It's a very sober assessment from a Christian point of view about the ethics of science and so on. The final section, at least where I was very interested is called the weakness of international politics where the Pope comes in and says that all the diplomatic channels, the governments are not able to function. They're not doing anything. And he has a section called reconfiguring multilateralism. Sounds very interesting. What is this reconfigured multilateralism? Well, the Pope comes in and talks about how globalization had its advantages, but it's not really helping people advance. He talks about how people need to develop sensitivities to the poor. He says, you can't replace politics. You have to create a better politics. I highly recommend people go and read this encyclical fascinating text largely about the question of the need for a new multilateralism. Gone is the day when one country determined international politics. Now you need to listen to many. You've been listening to give the people what they want brought to you from people's dispatch. Today that's Zoe, our comrade and dear friend Prashant not here soon to be re interrogated by the Delhi police. We stand fundamentally with Prashant. We stand fundamentally with news click and all the others who are facing press on freedom in India. Also brought to you by Globetrotter and Vijay. See you next week. It will be show 147 closer and closer to 150.