 Hello everyone, welcome to the Straight Talk Vermont show. Before I get to my guests, I want to make a little update about what we're doing at Art So Wonderful Gallery. We have events in there every month. And we had a DJ Raul in there last week, and a youth symphony orchestra, there's jazz, Jack has some jazz, Jack has some, he played jazz in there. And we come, we have our Marriott. We come up to Marriott for our art show real soon, so you'll hear about that. We'll stop in the University Mall, check out our art gallery. Everything's for sale in there. It's really nice in there. My art director, Laundra de la Questa, put it all together. She's a curator, so much nice art. There's artists from all around the state, you know, we sell their art for them. And it's so nice, over 5,000 square feet, so it's really, you really really enjoy it. So stop by Art So Wonderful at the University Mall, and let's check out the art, you know what I mean? We've got postcards and handmade postcards and cards and that too, you know. You don't have to spend $3,000 on a painting or whatever. But so now, I want to talk about, talk to my amazing friend, almost. Zaraa Hightower, she's awesome. You know, she's here today with us. And so Zaraa, how are you? Thanks for coming on our show today. Thanks, I'm doing well. I am upset that I didn't know about your art space before. I just bought art from my bedroom a few weeks ago, and I did not buy it from a local Vermont artist, so I should have done that, which had noon. Yeah, so right, you know, it changed every three months, you know, so we have art, the contract is at noon. It changed everything much. Since you talk about Art So Wonderful, let's just say one more thing about it. And like I said, we love artists, you know what I mean? I love artists, that's why I opened that space up, and that we know how Vermont are artsy people, right? And in music, you know, Vermont is artsy in music. So we do both, you know what I mean? But the thing is how we treat our artists is that a lot of art galleries that we did, I did my due diligence, because I don't know nothing about art galleries. I'm not an artist or nothing. It is that they charge their artists a hanging art, and then they charge them like 45 to 50% when they sell their art. So we don't do that. We charge you nothing. My art director, Alondra, will pick out your art, and we charge you nothing to hang your art, and when you sell it, we give you 70%, so we only take 30%, you know? So how wonderful that people, the artists are like, are you serious? You're only gonna take 30, you know, they be like, they can't believe it, you know what I mean? With a space like ours, because they don't see art galleries in malls, you know? And ample sizes of ours, you know? So yeah, so I wanted to add that, that we love artists, you know what I mean? Yeah, I love that. Yeah, we love art. So next, you know, I'm gonna have to- I will be there. It will happen, I promise. DJ Raul was in the last, who we had? Sheldon Vineyard was in there. I knew this DJ Raul. I know, Sheldon Vineyard was there. Oh my God, we, you know, that's one of our sponsors, they was in that service, wine. We having a great time, you know? They were like, yeah, Sheldon Vineyard is our spot. We love them when they come. Cause I'm like, I say, I'm sitting right next to you. You know what I mean? Wine people. But I'm so, Zariah, so you're a Burlington city council woman. Is that how I say it? Woman, not council man. Counselor, just counselor. That way you keep it. Oh yeah, keep it. Yeah. See, I'm learning something. That's great. So, how long you been, how long you been a counselor? I started in March, so I was elected March, 2020, and then I got on the council in April, 2020. So, a strange time to get on the council. So it's definitely an experience. Yeah, yeah, so all your meetings been Zoom? All of my meetings have been Zoom. Yeah, it was appointed over Zoom. Everything's been on Zoom. We had one kind of informal meeting once last summer in person, but that was at Batter Street Park, cause it was one of the public safety meetings. Oh, that was cool. That was cool. Yeah. I can't stand the damn Zoom stuff, cause I'm so in person. You know, man, I like to be right in talking to the person. That Zoom stuff, you know, I'd be like, okay, star six, you know, and I'm like, I don't want to hear nothing. I'm like, I'm doing nothing for me. I might just put my picture back up there. You know, I'll be around doing stuff, but I can't stand Zoom, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's just beautiful, you know? And we had a, I'm with the Wenusi School District of Anti-Racism Advisory, and we had our first meeting outside the school. We was outside underneath tents, and it was so wonderful to talk to everybody, because normally, and it's two hours, normally I'm like, this is too long, you know, I mean it's two hours. You used to be three hours, can you imagine? And I also feel like we've just packed in more meetings, because to some extent it used to be like, especially city meetings, it'd be like, oh, well I have to give myself time to go from this place to this place. So you're also just getting a break just in terms of like, for us, biking everywhere, like you're just like, oh, I get my 30 minute break break. And now it's like, this meeting ends at 9.59, the next meeting starts at 10, so, yeah. I know. Yeah, so I'm glad we're opening back up. Now, do you see any special committees that the counselors have that they sit on? Yeah, so last year I was on CDNR, Ordinance and Public Safety. This year, I'm still on all of those, plus the Joint Committee of the Public Safety and Police Commission, which I chair, and then I also just joined the Board of Finance. That's right, you get on that money girl, it means you're on that loop, you know what I'm saying? People like us, you know what I mean? Well, let me say actually something about the Police Commission. But I know you said that to me before, and I forget why we were talking about it, you know? Now, so they're looking for a new chief, right? Uh-huh. And so, is it a national search? Uh-huh, yep. So, what's the national search mean, first of all? Yeah, a national search just means that they're advertising on national platforms and taking candidates from anywhere in the state. In the states. Yeah. Uh-huh, uh-huh, wow. So, that's interesting because it seems like they always hire somebody from the police department, which is, which makes sense, you know what I mean? I mean, they depose on me, he came from New York, though, right? You still, Posa came from New York, and I think, and don't quote me on this, but I believe that the current acting chief, John, came from the same department and followed. Yeah. Maybe he didn't follow Del Poser here, but, well, yeah, they was like buddies, which, nothing wrong with that, you know, John, you're right. Yeah, you know, I work with police chiefs around the state, you know, different things, youth stuff and community stuff. Uh-huh. You know, Ramasseh police, fair partial policing, and so, I get it that, like, all of the police stations, all those police stations, they never meet their quarter of hiring. Uh-huh. Since I've been on that thing for years, they can never meet their quarter, you know, of hiring people to join the police forces around, you know, they, I don't know why, with these, you know why. Do you mean, well, so there's- Like police officers who they try to, they want, if they want 100 police officers, they only have, like, 90. They still, they just never can meet their quarter of hiring. Yeah, I know that the highest, when Burlington had the city limit at 105, the highest that they ever had was, I think, 101, but part of that is also is, like, when you have a quota, it's hard to meet that quota because, like, if you can't go above it, which I think, at least in Burlington, it's usually been said as, like, a cap, and so it's hard to go above it because when it's a cap, then, you know, if you can't go above it, then it's hard to meet it, so. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, because Vermont State Police, I don't know how many they need now, but I think it was, they was like, one of the major said, please, we're looking for 50 troopers, 50, wow. Yeah, that's a lot. And then the police officers, some chiefs told me, yeah, Burmont State, if we be jacking out, jacking their, you know, investments, they'd be jacking their candidates. Yeah. Yeah. At Putney or whatever that academy is, you know. They'd be jacking them Burmont State Police. Right. Right. See, they're not playing fair ball. They don't play fair ball, because the local police, or they'll jack some of the Burmont State Police candidates and they could, you know what I mean? Because that's how bad they need them, you know? Right. It's all good, you know, it's a fair game. It's all good. And so, what do you do on the commission? Yes, on the Joint Committee or any of them? I'm the police commission. I just want to talk with you. Yeah, so I'm not on the police commission, but we have a committee that's been, it's three city counselors, which are the Public Safety Committee. Oh, gotcha. And then the seven police commissioners, which are the police commission. And so we've had a joint force over the past, not quite, but almost a year now. And the majority of what we've done is, I guess, try to advocate for alternative solutions to some extent, but really what we've done is hired the two consultancies that have been, the first one, the Talitha, I don't know, there was a big community survey that just closed a few days ago about what we want in public safety, generally. And then another one that's happening right now of an assessment of the Burlington Police Department. An assessment of the Burlington Police Department. Yeah. So I've sat on this advisory board for an uncommon alliance from years ago. And our goal was to work with all the different chiefs around Burlington and County to get data collection on back, for back of the tickets. And now if you get a ticket, you live on the back of the city or in the city. We'll be here in African-American and blah, blah, blah. Right. And so to get some accurate data. Right. And so that was, I'm glad that that happened, you know what I'm saying? But last time we looked at the report, traffic stops or whatever, like in Burlington alone, like 85% of African-Americans were stopped. Come on, man. It was only 0.1% of African-Americans living in the state. But 85% of people who look like me were stopped, you know? Come on. How does that work? You know what I'm saying? That's not fair. You know, it's gotta be, you know, that's, they say, they say, you know, like some of the chiefs say, you know, well, we're, we might be a little biased against. I'm gonna say, man, that's, that's, that's racial, that's discrimination. They, you know, they won't use the word racial discrimination. They use the word, we might be a little biased. So I asked our major Jonas one, one year when I said, I said, cause there was troopers in there. You know, we might be biased. I was like, everybody use it. I said, I said, wait a minute. Everybody's saying bias again. This is racial discrimination. I don't know, cause I'm driving my Jag down Norm Street, you know, with the new plan B or something. You know, you gonna stop me cause I'm, you hear Tupac or something playing. I'm driving my Jag when I had to turn back. You know what I mean? And like, why will you stop me? You know, obviously it's racial discrimination. Again, I'm in the high risk, the economic channels, neighborhood, whatever. And then Jonas told me, well, Bruce, they can't use, if they say racial discrimination, it's against a lot. Right, that's something they have to fix, which is part of- Right, you know, so I said, oh, I see why they say bias against now. Right. And I think to some extent, like, and I don't know the history as well as some other people do, but I think, you know, the Burlington police department has kind of been pushed to be more progressive. And they like to say, you know, like, oh, we've done all of these things. And it's like, yes, every change that you've made though, for some, to a large extent, has been pushed by people being like, you have to do better at this. And so like the last one, I know there was a police commission meeting, I wasn't there, but John Mirrod was talking about these discrepancies, and he was like, what do you expect us to do? Get rid of them? And it's like, yes, why are you shocked by the fact that we're asking you to, yeah, get rid of them? Yeah. So one more thing about the police is like, one of the Winooski students on his anti-racism advisory, we're not one of them, but a group of them, an alumni, and you want to get rid of the resource officers, like gun, want them to dress down. I mean, look, you know, look, take away some of their role as like a punitive person. Yeah. And that's probably one of the demands. Yeah. And so, so we discussed a little bit of that, yes, last time in our meeting. And so, like for me, like I, you know, like, when I go to help an SS police chief, Ron, you to see national night out events and we working on that to try to get, and so one of his corporals or sergeants, John, is a resource officer. And when you look at John, John is dressed down. You know, he's, you know, you know, he's got his gun on his side still, but he's all dressed down. And he looks like, you know, not like a police officer, you know what I mean? And I think that with the students, well, they don't want the police officer to have a gun or whatever, you know? And I can get the part of them dressing down, maybe put on like a Hawaiian shoe over the gun, but they want them to get rid of the gun. And I remember Calabine perfectly clear, you know? That's one thing I get that I want them to dress down and give away some of the punitive things. Like some of the punitive things that should be who should handle it. They got to, now they have a coordinator there for restorative justice. They're going to hire on social workers. There was a people who should work with students who might have some high-risk stuff, you know? Instead of the police shouldn't answer those questions. Yeah, I think the, I mean, the problem with really all of this, but like school resource officers is like, part of the reason that we say we have school resource officers is, you know, school shootings, but no school resource officer has ever stopped a school shooting that we know of. And so, and I was on the task force for the Burlington school district. And like, I don't think that that's the value of what they do just because there's no data that they do that. And, but I do like, so I was on the school, I was on the Burlington school task force and I was on it with two of the school resource officers, one of them who's left for another position or maybe to the airport. I'm not 100% sure, but another division. And I think the real value of a school resource officer is not like having a policeman in schools. It's that when kids do have to interact with a police person that it's someone who cares about youth. And so, I don't think there's a lot of advantage to having them in schools. I think that most of the things that we're trying to prevent like school violence, you can't prevent by having one person who has a gun in the school, right? That's not how you prevent school violence. And I think another thing is there's just a lot like schools, like kids are really complicated. Like we live in a world that's really complicated. They have access to more and more things. And part of what I at least thought is talking to some of the principals is they don't know how to handle some of this stuff. And they're like, they don't know who to turn to. If a gun shows up in their school, they're like, I have no idea what to do right now, right? Like I was not, this isn't part of what I was trained for. I'm an educator, like I'm supposed to help educate children. And so, and young adults. And so I think it's, yeah, I mean, I have a lot of empathy for that, but I don't think that's saying, well, like, well, in the real world, we use like, you know, handcuffs and police people. So let's do that in schools. Just, I don't see that as the right approach. So what do you think about, so do you think that there should be resource officers in schools? I think that there should be school resource officers and that there are officers who are a resource to the school. So if the school has a question or they have a problem or they wanna do a training, you know, like on, you know, like active shooter drills, things like that, that there is an officer who knows the school and the schools and the buildings better than the other officers and can advocate to, so I do think that advocacy part and that relationship part is important. I don't think that there should be a full-time police person stationed. Yeah, like a police station in the school. In the school, yeah. With an officer with a uniform and a gun. Right, I think then then we're starting to address symptoms to problems that a police officer can't solve. Well, I'm gonna have to write, I'm gonna have to remember, those key points you just gave, I'm gonna have to see that. I'll write you an email, I'll send it out to you. You can read the 20 page report I like what you just said, though, you know what I mean? Because there's some great ideas and there's good points. And I think we should, you know, people, that's some great ideas. I mean, that's really good points. Right, I mean, I think it's proven that some of the things that are really effective at reducing school violence is things like making sure that, you know, kids' families have enough to eat and that there's like, that you're taking care of the families as opposed to just like punishing the kids for being in bad situations. I see why you're all constant. She got some, she, she, she, she fucks up people's, everybody. That's right. So, wow, you know, that just blew my head up right there because, you know, I don't know, they haven't got to the steps of the points of what they, you know, how they want to deal with it. You know what I mean? They just had these 90 man's, you know, and that was just one of them, you know. And I'm a restorative justice, then I got a resource on Kayla from Spectrum. She, I'm training restorative justice. She's one of the coordinators that's working with the schools and she work at other schools. I think she work at Burlington, too. But, you know, and so I'm on, I'm on a restorative justice team, you know, because that's important to me. And I'm a founding member of the community just as well as they started in Burlington in 2000. Well, 19, 2000, so founding member, we built that way. People from Australia came and told us how to do it right at the church and it was funny because they had, it's just, that's where it's from, you know what I mean? It was community justice and it's a type, not necessarily the name, but they would come and meet, like people with elders would meet in a restorative justice circle and the victim and the offender would be together. They both had support people with them and the victim and the offender and they would talk about how, with the harmony calls and what the community people would speak out about, you know, what the harmony calls in, so the offender could understand the harmony calls in it. And then the whole goal was to make a mess for the individual, the community that you offended. And this makes so much sense. That's where I got, where they asked me to be on it, but that's the reason why I'm on it, you know, because why I'm at help created. Because I thought that makes sense that instead of going through, some things don't have to go through traditional. Court system, you know, what do you think about that? And even, I mean, definitely, and even things that we traditionally think of, like, oh, this is the exception, this has to go through the court system. And this isn't like everything example, but like, one of the places that I first learned about restorative justice was in Rwanda, which, you know, went through a genocide in 1990 and they used, you know, they used the court systems for some of the like leaders and for some of the leaders of the genocide, but for a lot, like, it was so widespread that it was just neighbors again, like, killing their neighbors. And so they ended up using, they were like, well, we can't like this, we can't just jail everyone, like, or take everyone to the court process. And so they had just this like ongoing process of like family restoration and being like, well, you killed my husband and like in these similar kinds of things. And so I think, and I think there's a lot to be said for both perpetrators and victims and moving outside of the court systems and the like industrial like prison complex. And to the extent possible, yeah, doing these things in a restorative way and talking about harm instead of talking about crime. Yeah, yeah. Because it makes so much sense because like, for example, like for the victim, like she have a support person with her and she might say like, oh, since you broke in my friend's house, I used to be able to go to the back yard, to the back door with my robot and we have coffee in the month. Now I got to dress up and go around to the front, you know what I mean? Do it or knock on the door, you know what I'm saying? So we lost some personalities there from personal stuff. And the say the offender support person might say, when we walked down the street, now people think I'm like you, you know what I mean? Like I'll break in the house or whatever, you know what I'm saying? And so the offender can see the harm that he's, you know, he can actually really see the harm that he's done. Right. And then there's, you know, there's like one another taxes up. We had to spend money for spot lights on our building and, you know, because people like you, we had to create, you know, programs and, you know, see how he, yeah, the harm that he's done or she done. Right. And so, so that's what I like about the community justice center is, you know, exactly the victim acts, I mean, the offender actually see the harm that he's done or she's done. They understand it, you know, instead of just like, okay, you know, you're being, well, traditional part of it. You broke in such and such as house and that carries of three to five and how do you plead? You know what I mean? Right. You know, that's the truth. It's very impersonal when part of the reason that crimes happen is people not, it's, it's funny that it's not funny. It's sad that in response to us not treating each other within a humanity and really seeing like how our actions affect other people, that we just put them in dehumanizing situations. Right. It's like, oh, you hurt this other person because you didn't see their humanity or didn't think about it when you were doing this thing. And in response, we're gonna not treat you like a human. That doesn't help you treat other people more like a human. Like, yeah. Yeah. So, what was it this last weekend? Yeah. We sat there or something. So we painted Black Lives Matter in the street. We had a mayor, everybody was out there. Your people, all your people was out there. My people. Well, I mean, your people being like, Politicians. Politicians. I'm not a politician. I just know a lot of them. I mean, y'all are like, yo, make this work, you know. I'm not running for nothing, you know. But anyways, I don't mean you, you know what I'm trying to say. Yeah. Okay. But so we put Black Lives Matter in the street again. So, and then Karen Paul was out there. She was like organizing, coordinating all things and she was painting her butt off. And then she took me some other days and said they're gonna do it again and whatever. So, what does Black Lives Matter mean to you? We got one too. We have my art show, one forgot one on Union Street. You're in the old YMCA building. If you drive, go by, you'll see Black, I don't know if you've seen it, it's right on Union Street, you know. And it's right on the old YMCA building. Black Lives Matter, we put one up there too, you know. Yeah. But what does that mean to you, Black Lives Matter? Yeah, I think this has been, like, so I feel like there's been before the past year and then this year. And I think before this, it's meant to me, because this is how I was raised, it has meant to me that intellectually, I know that I'm gonna have to work harder, I'm gonna have to do better, I'm gonna have to be better than people around me in the US in order to get the same opportunities, to get the same pay, to get the same everything. And I feel like that's always been something that I've, because it was drilled into me ever since I was a little girl, like that I've intellectually known and I feel like now that, not the whole rest of the country, but now that kind of the rest of the country is intellectually knowing that, I feel like it's starting to mean something different to me and now, instead of just knowing it, I get to have an emotional reaction to it, to some extent, so I feel like over the past, it's been like, over the past year, it stopped being, I have to work harder, I have to, I have to, I have to, and it's been like, no, you have to start treating me the way that you treat other people. No, you have to see my humanity, like no, you have to. It's not my responsibility anymore, it's your responsibility. Right, and yeah, so I guess I would say black lives matter to me is that, like, you know, of course everybody's lives matter, you know, I just think like exactly what you're saying, like, you know, we just, are we care, are we want us to be treated fair and get the same, you know, same opportunities and pay and whatever, like most people are not a color, not a color, you know, we just want to be treated the same way, you know, you know. Right, it's not my responsibility to not wear a hoodie, it's not my responsibility to not fall asleep in the spot, it's not my responsibility to have that right, just like everybody else does. Exactly. And your responsibility to treat me the way that you would anybody else when I do those things. And just like, like I think, like people, you know, when I came to Vermont, it was the whiteest state in America. And so I think that a lot of people in Vermont, you know, white people are not necessarily prejudice, you know what I'm saying? You know, we all have some prejudices, but I think that it's because, you know, what is that their education around people of color, you know, like we don't live next door to them, we don't go to school with them, we don't go to church with them, we might hang out at the mall, we might not hang out, but we might see them in the malls, but so how to get that information about people of color, people who look like me, they get it from a stereotypical usually. Oh, on the news, that black person, you know, just kill somebody, look at their neighborhood, they're looting and rioting, and you know, all these things that, you know, more white people do than people of color do, you know what I'm saying? So if I, like for instance, in Vermont, never saw a black person, or I don't live next door to you, or go to church with you, or go to grocery store, you know, and we don't hang out or nothing, nothing about me, but there's stereotypical things that you see on TV or read about, you might think that I'm like that, you know, saying like the things that you hear about, you know, you might just feel that way. And so when you meet me, you know what I mean? You say, oh God, this guy have youth programs across the state, da, da, da, just da, da, da, da, you know, and they get to know me, then they choose to be like, you know, understanding me, you know, so I think it's all about education, I mean, mostly. I don't wanna, cause I don't, I'm not even a psychologist, I don't think about, you know, like I always think I'm once good about a situation, you know what I mean? So I think that's what is really neat, it's really what it means, I mean, that is more education. Right, but it's not just, it is, I think it is education, and I think it's also, but like to some extent, I think it's also recognizing that, like, these stereotypes that you're talking about were, they're not just like, oh, this, it's not just education, like, oh, there's also other black people, it's also education that it's like, oh, and these stereotypes were created by people who, unlike you, did know, and they decided, they were like, oh, I'm a politician, it is popular for me to create the image of a welfare queen, even though black women who are single moms are like a small proportion of the people on welfare, and create this persona of the welfare queen, and the media eats it up and portrays three cases of like, black women who are doing this, and are like, oh, this woman, I was like, registered, whatever, it's like so, yes, and it's education, but not just education of like, oh, and here's the other half, but also education of like, and you've also been told a lot of lies. Right, right, exactly, yeah, no doubt about it, and so I don't know if that's gonna change, really. You know, one thing I do know is that, cause like these little kids, like the elementary and middle school kids, they didn't, so far, they're not thinking like that. They so like pure, whatever words you wanna use, but I think they're gonna, they'll learn those things as they get older, like around middle school, like seven, six, seven, eight grade, then it started, you know, it started getting it, but right now I think, like, you know, they, when you watch, when I see them in the groups that I work with, you know, like youth and the different, like in our youth advisory board, we have middle school kids, high school kids, and then it was on yesterday, and they all come from, they have their different ethnicities, you know, they all, and you see them just talking, they ain't, you know, they ain't, it's like, wow, they ain't no problem. They just, they ain't, you know, they, you know, tapping each other, you know, they just like, how good is that to me? You know, they don't have like, you know, something they had no stereotypical about, you know, braces or whatever, you know, and so how cool is that to them? That's awesome, I see that around, you know what I mean? I see that, let me tell you a funny story. So I was on Church Street one year, a couple years ago, and this little girl, you know, she was with her mother, and she was like, she just kept looking at me, kept looking at me, kept looking at me, you know? She was like, and I knew why she was looking at me, cause she probably never seen anybody, probably they'd never seen a black person, you know? Cause she was just, she just was stunned, you know what I'm saying? And so she, and so, so her mother let go of her hand, so the little girl came over to me, right? Her mother was like, I don't know what she was doing. It started rubbing my arm like this, and her mother said, oh no! Call my daughter, you know, come back a little, I'm so sorry, I said no, let her do it, you know what I'm saying? Let her do it. I've had the same experience with my best friend's daughter, like she has grown up with me, but she's like, I'm one of the few people in her life that's dark. And so like, but when she says something about like the difference in like, like, you know, like, oh, that Zariah is brown, or like dark, her mom, who I love dearly, like gets so embarrassed. And it's like, it's, that's when you start to learn, right? Is like, cause if you were like, oh, like your skin's so like light, nobody would say anything, you know what I mean? Like, nobody would be like, don't say that, like it's like, like you're pointing out a bad thing. Where when, which is what people do like, oh, you're so dark, like is that real? And you're like, yeah, it's really cool, isn't it? Right, that should be the reaction instead of like, yeah, so I've had the same experience that. And I think that's how we, it's so insidious how we learn like, oh, this is bad because people are very like, you can't point out that this person is black. It's like, yes, she can, it's okay. That little girl and her mom, she took her hand, he was going up towards, it was like a mid block, whatever, you know, around bottom all, and she was, she was looking back all the way. And I was like, you know, she looked back all the way up. She just like, you know, and so, so that was so cool, you know what I mean? I was like, that's the experience that I won't forget, you know what I mean? And she was so, you know, like, she just was curious, you know what I mean? She just started rubbing my arm. I was like, I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this ain't gonna come off as me, you know? And in the other day, like somebody said to me, some white person said to me, wow, I wish I was your color, you know what I mean? And I said, see, I'm trying to get my tan on. This ain't even the color I wanted to be right now. I'm trying to get a little darker, you know? And she like, no, I like, you know, they like this color. And I'm like, I'm trying to, I'm told this is, I'm like, damn, I'm trying to get my tan on, you know what I mean? I'm trying to get right, you know what I mean? It's like, even the color I'm trying to be, you know? So that's always funny too, because, you know, it's like when, you know, white people, you know, always want to get dark as us, you know what I mean? And that's prerogative, but it's kind of, that's kind of where, you know, the darker they get, the better they feel. And they're self-esteem girls, and they feel like they're so much beautiful. Or, and I don't, I don't know. Well, I think that's the, I mean, I don't, I just listened to someone who actually studies this, talk about this. And it's the thing of, to like, because there is this, like, whether it's being like Latine or being black, like it's this urban association and being cool, and like, whatever, like ghettoizing, right? And so it's like, you know, people like the Kardashians who are like, well, I'm white, but I'm going to give off this persona of being, it's like, what, I forget what the technical term for it is, but it's basically they're like, this is the new black face of like, putting on like, oh, I would like to be black, or I would like to be brown, and then profiting off of that in some cases, and saying like, oh, see, it's easy. It's like, no, you're a white person who's dark, like, and trying to, anyway. But that's- And all of them got black, black mates. They all of them got some black guy as their partner or whatever, to figure that. But anyway, so, yeah, so, so city council, so Brian Pond is leaving, he's going, I guess. He's gone. Is he going? Is he out for the Monsito now? Yeah. So he's gone. So what word is that? Fifth? Something. What word is Brian Pond representing? He's word three. Three. And so you guys got to, we had to work to choose somebody else. So, I don't know. So right now the different parties are allowed to have their caucuses. So each party, the progressive party is going to have a caucus. Oh wow. I don't remember when. I assume the Democratic Party will as well. So each party is going to choose people to run. Maybe the Republican Party would. I think that would be weird, since it's word three. I don't think there's a lot of Republicans in word three. Yeah, and then we're going to have an election to replace Brian just for his, just until March. It's a short term. Yeah, that's cool. Do you live in word three? Do you live in word three? I'm not trying to be, I told you. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not no problem. If I was going to run for some, maybe I'd have to be governor because everybody's got to be on the same page. It's like eight or nine month commitment. It's not very long. Everybody's got to be on, if I was going to run, I'd have to be the governor. Everybody's got to be on the same page. I can't just run a city, you know, that's not me, you know. Everybody's got to work. Okay, got it. On the same page, so. POTUS. Exactly, you know. President of the United States. Oh boy. I support, you know, the right candidates, you know what I'm saying? And I know a lot of politicians. So for me that's knowing them and they know my objective with the work I do, work with youth and families and whatever. And just. Which we can talk about it all, but next time. That'll be, that's the biggest thing for me. Like, you know, my program, I have over 50 awards for working with youth and families. And we have education on drugs and I call it tobacco, you know, with our Straight Talk Vermont program. That's the Straight Talk show. And you know, it's other things. And we have arts are wonderful, gift fit Vermont, United College Club. We have a lot of different Vermont local music. So we have a lot of programs that we work with. Youth and Families Program. And these programs are around since, United College Club has been around since 99. And most of them have been around since 2001 or three. We have youth advisory boards who make the decisions on our programs, projects and events for many years, you know. So let's talk about that a little bit. So in 2003, our program, Service Render Incorporated, which is the mothership of all of those programs, I'm the executive director, created youth on boards for the city. You know, we youth on boards, you know, youth need to be on, so they was on police commission, planning commission, school board. The city council, we had to present to the city council back 2003, and they approved it. And they moved the resolution for it. Whereas, you know, like, stuff, you know. And so, since that time, like, we, I, my organization, we transferred to CEDO. And they kind of dropped the ball, you know what I mean? So it was, you know, youth on boards that was really, to me, meaningful, you know what I mean? Like, they'll get on these boards, you know what I'm saying, the finance committee. And all of a sudden, you know, they's like, well, you know, the finance committee, you look over that stuff, I don't even want to be on the finance committee. That's something like, you might, you love, you are already on the finance committee. But it's so, to me, it's like, they had numbers and boring, and we're going to use this and these dollars for that. And so, a lot of these boards, these youth were on, didn't, you know, all they was like, yay, nay, you know what I mean? And it's like, they didn't really have no agenda items to go to. Now they're going to have agenda items. Like, if you're on the finance committee, and they see $200, they need to figure out, these youth need to figure out, you know, how they're going to spend it among their peers. So now it's going to be different, and our organization, I have my youth board, president, Veronica Lindstrom, she's a sophomore at Brown County. She's in charge, she was like, you've heard her talk probably on the city council meeting. And so now it's going to be different because they're going to convene those people who are on these committees and, you know, talk about what you're doing and how you know, what's your problem, you know, how you, you know, how you, you know, what do you think we should do? How we should use these things to handle it? You know, everything is good. And Pitt, you know, Pitt from CEDO, she's a, she works for CEDO, so CEDO is going to be helping us again. And Brian Prine, I'm just not, he's CEDO director. He knows, I talked to him, he was right here talking, I told him, well, you know, you get on this journey, but you're going to make sure that, you know, you got to make sure this is popping, you know. And so, so we're excited, you know, thank you for sponsoring it, you know, you know, co-sponsoring it. Oh man, that's awesome. That's, that's, you know. Yeah, and I think, because part of, I mean, so exciting, I think hopefully with like this expansion of the program, we can also help kids, youth, sorry, not kids, figure out like what, yeah, what to do on those boards. And if you do want to do that, how you advocate for that, how you bring other high schoolers to the board and say like, hey, we think you should do this and here's all the reasons why, and do some of that like back end organizing work as well. Exactly, you got it. And so I'm glad you said that because one thing I was telling Karen, I told Max and Brian, Ali, Dean, is that these youth, you guys got to be mentors to it, you know, they get nice sit on these committees, but you know, somebody's got to take on some of these, you guys got to take on these kids, too. Right, because adults sit on these committees and they're like, I don't know what I'm doing. Right. So it's like, you got to mentor. We got to, because they, those kids are our future in real and they need to help make the decision on what money's been or what's been done, you know. And all these things, I mean, like, you know, like people like, what's going to happen in the next five years? You know what I mean? I hope I'm like, can cool or somewhere and sitting on drinking some Pina Colada on the ocean or somewhere, you know. That's why I hope in like five years or whatever, I don't, you know, in theory, you know. And so in five years, when these kids are like, everybody else's gone, here's these kids like ready to go to work. They should be making decisions right then about what this happened in five years and this take on is they take it on for the next steps. I mean, not, not create the whole thing. Oh, it was a ride. She said this, you know, and they said that, you know. And so now we got to scrap it all. Bruce said this. And so now we got to scrap it all and start from the bottom. No, we just want you to mentor the following, you know what I'm saying? Because you're already been making a decision, you know. So that's, that's why I suppose where it's easier because less money is, is, you know, less brain work or footwork is, is so much time, you know, man hours, whatever, it's the most better. Yeah. So, so we're coming up on time. So, so what's your, what's your, and you said a lot of different things, you know. Oh, what about Juneteenth? Oh my gosh, I'm so excited for Juneteenth. Mostly because I think Tahitian knows how to throw a party. That's good. Yeah, I think Juneteenth is going to be exciting. I think it's exciting that the city of Burlington is sponsoring it for the first time. I'm excited that Tahitia's, I think she really has a vision for it. Came here. Tahitia is the racial, equity, inclusion, and belonging throughout there. Yeah, Florida City of Burlington right now. Exactly. Yeah. So Tahitia Green, yeah. I think it's going to be a great educational event for folks who want to learn more. I think it's going to be a great party for people who just want to celebrate. Where we've come and blackness in the city. It's so great. So where it's going to be at? It's going to be all around Burlington, so there's different events happening. It's like Roosevelt, Waterfront, City Hall Park, maybe even in this park, I'm not sure, probably not, it's a little small, but yeah, they did a good job of scattering it throughout the city. Yeah, sure, have a map, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, so I was invited to be for both, you know, and any essence, so I don't know how I'm going to do both, but we'll see. So yeah, that's awesome, right? I mean, that is, now my friend, Roy Hill, been advocating for Juneteenth for a million years, you know, in theory, and he never got nothing like this out, what's going on now for Juneteenth. Now, do you think it has something to do with George Floyd? Whereas everybody's like, yeah, you know, we're on board with Juneteenth, and we're on board with blackness, we're on board with Black Lives Matter, we're on board with, you know, equity and inclusion. I mean, everybody's got an equity and inclusion coordinator for everybody. Yes, Ann. So I would say, I don't know this, but I think Taisha, she started the same day I did on city council, right? Her appointment was the day that I was appointed city council. And so I think, because she comes from a city that has a big Juneteenth celebration, so she's like, why don't we have this in Burlington? So I think, yes, Ann, I think she always had that vision of making this a day in Burlington. I think some of the resources that she got for this came because of the awareness that came with George Floyd's murder. And that's, and I don't know a little bit about that. That's a, those people support, I'm sorry, those people, because that's me, those people, really supported the efforts, you know, to get some, you know, victory around George Floyd. You know, it was like, you know, some things, you know, and there were so many things that like George Floyd, like how many names is it, you know what I mean? And then all of a sudden George Floyd was the name that people really responded to. I mean, white people, everybody around the world. They were saying this was in justice. And it was like, pretty much that's F'd up, you know what I'm saying, for real, for real. You know what I mean? Like that's really, you know what I mean? Here's the guy saying, I can't breathe, you know what I'm saying? Right. You know, they put his, you know, they kneeled on those nine minutes, 28 seconds, something like that. And, you know, on his neck, you know what I mean? Until he died, you know what I mean? And like, and the guy had no remorse in his face. It was like, like, like he was on his knees. He wasn't like, I'm on somebody's neck, you know what I mean? The police officer, you know? But anyway, so, so I think that, why did, you know, this would be our, you know, one similar last question, but why do you think people were like white people or people around the world woke up on all of a sudden like, God, black lives do matter. People shouldn't treat black people like that. You know, they shouldn't shoot. Why do you think that people, you know, other than, you know, you see more white people out there, sometimes in some cases, then black people supporting black people. You know, why do you think they just come alive like that, come alive or come around, you know? Yeah, I mean, because I feel like there was a moment which I think was probably Trevon Martin, where like, that, where like, I want to say like the closer circle, right, the like black people and their like closest allies, where it was like, you know, like now it's on camera, like now it's happening. And then these things have been on camera. And I think, so I don't, I don't know and I don't understand enough about like, movement building or things to really know. But I think that this has been a moment that's been coming because there's been enough of, it's been a movement that's been building, I guess. Like I feel like this started, you know, a decade ago in other circles and it's just continued to build and then, yeah, last summer was a breaking point in terms of like how the awareness of like who were pulled, like how, you know, you know, like how big of a tent we're pulling in to be like, no, this isn't, this isn't the society we want to be in. And so, you know, I always think about, I always try to figure out, like when things seem bad, I always think, what's good about it? You know what I'm saying? What's good about it? You know what I'm saying? Like for instance, like if you're walking down the street and you see a dog wagging his tail, you know what I'm saying? You don't look powerful. I could probably walk out, you know what I'm saying? Then when you get up to any side of growling and so it's a good thing about it. Now that's bad cause he's about to bite you in the ass or whatever. But the good thing about it is that now, you know, when you see that dog, you're gonna go across the street. So that's something good about the situation, you know? And so I think, and so that leads me to say that, you know, COVID-19 who killed thousands, hundreds of thousands of people, saddens and that's bad. It's totally, it's like pitiful. You know what I'm saying? It's like the worst. I mean, I hope I don't have to ever go through my life or something like that again, you know? But I think something was good about it was like people was at home. They get to see real news about people like us. They wanna do, they wanna do something like volunteer or take somebody food to their neighbors or they wanted to do more and they wanted to do something and they couldn't go to work and they were working from home or whatever. They just wanted to do more, you know? And I think that had a lot to do with it too. There's people that really want to do more for people, you know what I'm saying? And in the humanity, and like when people were dying, when they say like 500,000 people died, it had no face so you don't say, well, how many white people died? How many, you know, just a sad, pitiful, you know, it was incredibly bad, you know what I'm saying? And we were all in it together. Yes, right. The whole world was in it together. So I think that showed a lot, you know what I mean? About that we could all actually be all together, you know what I mean? And you know, I think that's what we can do. So yeah, so I'm gonna leave with that, you know what I'm saying? We just wanna add something else. We got any announcements, anything you wanna say? Any announcements that I really wanna say. No, the Peace and Justice Center is open. Come visit our store Wednesdays, 10 to five. And yeah, that's it. Yeah, we gotta talk about that next time, you know. I'm so glad that you're the director. I am too. Edie, executive director of Peace and Justice Center, you know, it's got some history, it's a long time history and I know a little bit about it, you know, with Larry McCoy and John Tucker, you know. So, you know, I appreciate you doing, you know, taking that job, you know, because you didn't have to, you know. I don't want somebody to twist your arm or something, you took it, you know what I'm saying? They're like, do you want less money and more work? And I was like, yes. So, here we are. Yeah, I know we should do a good job for many years, you know. Yeah. Well, I wanna thank you for joining us on the high tower, city of Burlington Councilor, amazing lady. And I do a lot of things. You hear all the boards and committees and commissions. She said a lot, you know. You know, she's sitting looking at them like, I gotta go. I do want to meet, I gotta love them. I really, really love them. All right, so thank you for joining us. Straight talk for my show. And then we'll see you next time.