 Okay, can I? So hello everybody, I'm Luca Capello-Gizmo on Debian and I will just give a brief status on one year later the first time that Debian was available on the OpenMoco free runner. The status, where are we now after one year and this is mostly a continuum about the talk that I gave, of the talk that I gave at FOSDEM this year. So you can probably recognize some slides that are the same. Let me briefly show you how the talk is composed. The talk is to be added into an OpenMoco part, which deal about everything which is upstream in a sense and the Debian part. And so if we start with the OpenMoco part, this is some sort of a timeline about the OpenMoco company and the OpenMoco community. OpenMoco was a project that started internally more or less three years ago. They get some code in 2007. They get a device which is this one, a developer device which was called GTA01 Neo 1973 to the developer in 2007 and then since this was an internal project at the FIC company, which is a Taiwanese company, they separate the project in a standalone entity, which is the OpenMoco company in October 2010. They go on and since they committed to free software and to some sort of free hardware as well, they provided the CAD files so you can create some skin for your OpenMoco and then finally they got completely public with a device which is a continuation and more developed version of the GTA01, which is the GTA02, which is this one, the black one, called Neo Free Runner in July 2008 and then in August 2008 they released the schematics of the two devices. So as you can see, the OpenMoco is both a company which is OpenMoco Inc. and the community, which is OpenMoco.org. This separation is clear even on the website. Everything which is OpenMoco.org is the community and everything which is OpenMoco.com is the company. About the devices, we have the Neo 1973, which as this characteristic is based on the Samsung system on chip, it has a reader for microSD card, it's 3-band GSM, GPRS 2.5G, not 3G. The GPS unfortunately needs a closed binary only driver. The batteries can be compatible with the Nokia BL5C and 6C models and it can be charged through USB 1.1 mini plug. Then we have an evolution of the same device, which is the GTA02, which is as the same case. So if you create skin for the first, if you have created skin for the first one, you can use on the second one. The RAM, the quantity of the RAM is the same. The internal flash memory has been upgraded to 256 while it was 64 meg before. We have a new Samsung system on chip, which is mostly the same as before, but with some speed improvement. Finally, we have, not finally, but actually we have an OpenGL accelerated chip, graphic chipset, which is the NES media, but unfortunately these chipset require NDA to get access to the documentation. The GPS chipset is a new one, and you don't need any more binary driver because it outputs NMA standard. So every device can use it like a normal serial port. We have Wi-Fi based on the Atos chipset. In this case, you don't need any firmware and it's an open local company that wrote the driver. They added two accelerometers so you can feel, the device can feel the position in the space and finally they add the host mode to USB, which is still 1.1. Yes. Is there any binary only driver or firmware thing in the GSM part? So the GSM is in some sort of closed because of regulation. You can upgrade, there was some sort of discussion because the company that produced the GSM was not so keen in allowing end-user to upgrade their GSM firmware. They finally open market deal with that and you can upgrade the GSM firmware, but actually it's closed because of regulation. The GSM modem can be controlled by 80 commands, which are known and which are in some sort documented. In the framework demo program and so you can do whatever you want actually, but you cannot change everything because of regulation. And the same applies to GPS. So in this case, the GPS gives you some output, which is the standard output as a GPS use, but you cannot modify the GPS itself. Again, for because of regulation. So this is probably the most free-ness that we can get about GPS and GSM. So they do whatever they could to get something free, but they could not succeed because of not their fault. Then there was two more devices that last year were planned. GTA03, in new case, new battery, new GSM, something like not really a revolution, but an evolution with different stuff. They removed for example the Glamo chipset because you need an NDA, so it's quite difficult to work on it. And no one wanted to work on it. Yes? When you said you can do anything you like with GSM, does that include now with the new firmware being able to send GSM voice data to it somehow and have that go out on the air? I don't know. I mean, I do everything for phoning and basic phoning. So theoretically there are still some commands for 80 commands that are not documented. So maybe you can do that, but it's not documented. Okay. I was wondering whether it's possible to take GSM encoded data and send it straight out without it going into analog in between. If you've got a noise that you want to send to the person at the other end of the telephone conversation, at the moment you have to... It's not possible. You say that some GSM commands are documented. It's not the 2GPP standard? Well, the fact is that these chipset, they use this Texas System chipset, which is Calypso. And I found that as long as they go on with developing the GSM part, they document new commands. So it should be standard. It should be standard combat, but there are some specific commands for the chipset itself that are not documented. So for example, the deep sleep state or other power management stuff or how to communicate with them. So there was this GTA... The design for this GTA-03 and they also planned some new device called GTA-04, which finally should have had 3G and USB 2.0, a more advanced system on chip and OpenGL support not based on GLAMO, so based on the graphical chipset in the Samsung system and chip. Then I will briefly show you how much distribution are available outside. This is just some screenshot. This is not all the distribution available. This is the first one, which is the OM 2007.2, produced by OpenMorco. And then we have OM 2008.9, which is not yet available. They are testing images. Then we have community distribution, which the first two... This is S-I-H-R for stable hybrid release, a completely community-driven distribution. Then we have NeoVento, which is a Germany distribution based on Debian, which uses LXE. And then we have the first port of Android. So this is Android on the OpenMorco. And the port of Android on the OpenMorco is backed by Colu, the company of John Maddock Hall. So this was the situation. They decided to create a new stack to manage the telephone and this stack was included in the frismasphone.org initiative, with the idea of having everything managed by a framework, which is a framework daemon, and expose everything by D-Bus. So you don't need to care about the low level part of the GSM, GPS, Bluetooth, connection, wireless, whatever. And you can control everything with D-Bus. And this frismasphone.org initiative is mainly driven by Mickey Lauer from the open embedded world, and at the beginning was founded by OpenMorco. This was the situation. And now, so in April 2009, GTA Zero 3 was abandoned because of high cost, and they could not get on with every cost that they have. It was too expensive to continue, and so they decided to completely abandon it and move on a project B, which is still not a very clear project, and so they decided to go away from the business of a smartphone. And then two months later, the company got restructured. Quite a lot of people got fired, and the community can use actually the trademark and the brand of the OpenMorco. So the distribution that were developed by OpenMorco are now completely community. The infrastructure, so the website, openmorco.org with the wiki, GIT, the mailing list, were given to the community, and every kind of documentation were given to the community. So mainly now, the OpenMorco company is working on something that is not anymore a smartphone device, and every development is done by the community. By the very same people that were involved in the OpenMorco or the company, but they are now moved outside. And the community decided something. For example, Illume and the alignment window manager was chosen as a standard window manager. Illume is a, or Illume, I don't know the correct spelling in English, is a profile, a specific profile of the alignment for mobile smartphone. I will show you some script later. They decided to code for a new phone application, which is Paroli, which is based on the alignment foundation library. The OpenWRT distribution came into the game and now supports completely the OpenMorco, GTA02 at least, the free runner. There was another project which started, which was started by the same guys that were working in the OpenMorco company and which is called GTA02 Core. And actually it's the GTA02 without bad stuff, for example, like the Glamo chip set. So they decided to remove the Glamo chip set and decided to do some other small modification. This is not really a project that will finalize on a product. It's more or less a proof of concept of what we can do if we have every specification, if we have access to everything. They are still working on it. The idea will be to produce CAD files and then finally find a company that can produce the file. So, and then, PhismaPhone.org Move to SHR as the base distribution. So every new feature of PhismaPhone.org will be available in SHR, which is now mostly used distribution. And this is the news of yesterday, 29th July, the very same guy involved in PhismaPhone.org founded a company, which is BGB, in order to support PhismaPhone.org even at a commercial level. This is a German company composed by four people, which are the four people that work on PhismaPhone.org. Now, Debian. So this is the picture of last year. Last year, quite a lot. Some Debian developers that were in Argentina went out in July 2008 and the Debian company in Argentina was in August 2008. And so we worked on trying to install Debian on the OpenMoco in the same way. And the result was that at the end of Debian 8, we had a script to install Debian on the OpenMoco. We have quite a lot of resources and I wrote again there because not anyone is aware of them. So this is a project which is an alias project called a package FSO. If someone wants to contact us, we have an alias mailing list for everything which is completely packaging related. We use most of the stream mailing list which is the smartphone dash userland kernel or standard mailing list for every kind of discussion because we want to work very, very very quickly. So this is a project where everything is discussed. Yes? Oh, yes. Yeah. It's OpenMoco CDVAL. Yeah, exactly. Thank you, Teemo. And there's OpenMoco Debian for this which is Debian related. The packages are maintaining Git on git.debian.org and this repository and then we clean everything and we adapt the packages to Debian policy and we go to main. Again, we have other resources like the wiki. There's two different wiki. There's the Debian wiki where we have a page for end user where you can see the installation configuration and problem and devices and there's a wiki page for everything which is packaging relating. On the OpenMoco wiki there's also two pages. The first one is an automatic installation page in the sense that deals everything about installation and the manual installation page is the old page which was available at the beginning of Deconv8 last year and from where we derived the instruction to create this script. This page, for example, there was the guy who installed Gnome and then he moved to XFC and there are some information that are very, very good in this page and it's a very long page so if you want to read you actually need to read both of the wikis and we still have not found a way to keep everything in one single wiki unfortunately. The installation, there are some points that we needed to discuss and to take a decision we decided to go for an install script because one year ago it was not possible to start DI on the OpenMoco. We want to support DI but it was too much work and simply bootstrapping we'd see the bootstrap or the bootstrap a Debian installation on the MicroSD was quite easy. So this is why we decided to go for an install script instead of directly coding on DI. A graphical Debian does not fit the only way to install Debian on the OpenMoco. Uboot, it seems that at that time Uboot could not read big partition and one year ago there were already 4 gig 4 gig MicroSD so the script creates two partition one partition of 8 megabytes for the boot so for the Uboot or QI and the rest for everything which is the root The kernel is another not bad point we cannot use the Debian kernel because OpenMoco has its own Git repository for the kernel and that they have quite a lot of patches about that so it was too much work to port every patches to the Debian kernel so we decided to use the OpenMoco kernel compile it in some sort of Debian way and then the Uboot by default expect the first partition the MicroSD to be VFAT so we needed a way to use the Uboot environment and this was done by Joachim with a shell script and then we found that there's a package that can read and modify the Uboot environment and so the idea is to use this package instead of the shell script that Joachim coded the details about the installer these are not all the options of the installer these are some of the options it can run from any official OpenMoco distribution so we tested it in some sense distribution agnostic it used officially the Debian bootstrap see the bootstrap package we use it see the bootstrap because it can install a minimal, very minimal installation which is even less than standard installation it is highly configurable by different variable as again these are not all the variables that we have now these are some of the variables and it was divided in photo self-containing stages it means that you can just try to test if your distribution has everything that you need to install Debian or you can decide to go for everything or if something is wrong, something does not work you can continue later for example you can decide to install when some part at home because you have a fast internet connection and then move away and then restart and this script has been quite heavily tested so after one year the script is still working the script has been adapting to every changes that we have in Debian and sorry yeah unfortunately there is a problem which I was still not able to understand so it stopped lately in the last day it stopped at the see the bootstrap at the APT stage whatever and for no particular reason and what is strange that if you have the same command as the questioner if you do the same command manually so not inside the script it works so it is strange, computer is strange not related to the microSD not related to the connection not related to the APT repositories and I don't know in my case it's because I don't know why but it doesn't find the store info okay so because that didn't work I started making trying to install with multi-strap instead of the install script because that has the ability to merge two repositories which is exactly what we want to do so it could be a neat solution so I need to be working by the end of today so we'll see what happens so this is the situation the result is the image is not so clear the result is something like that so if you don't decide anything you in the end get something like this which is the zone application this is the application developed by the frismarphone.org guys and it was intended to be a demo application and the bug application to be sure that everything that the code it worked you have the phoning capabilities contacts on the messages on the SIM information about the GSM cell in GPS that show you the position and the different size that you are attached on and something like a profile where you can just switch off every ring of tones then we have a keyboard which is in our case the matchbox keyboard because we decided to use the maxbox window manager which is very light something like 600K and you have keyboard and panel and window manager itself you have the openmoco panel plugin which is this application here which is the top which can use to activate, deactivate every resources for example Bluetooth, GPS, GSM keyboard, battery and whatever and then as I said we have based on zone actually what happened is that zone was intended as a demo application but most of the distribution use it as a normal application so this is the default phoning application for the openmoco then to use Illum and the lightman as a window manager we have now thanks to Albin Toneira and the package E group team in Debian we have now the possibility to install Illum as well on the openmoco the major problem is that is this currently, we need something like 25 meg the last time that I tried for everything this is the uptrend choice so in some way we need to support it because we decided to do that and it's a present to you to use and you have some sort of animation whatever that you can disable if you don't want them you have better keyboard support this is something like the iPhone keyboard every time you touch a button the button gets zoomed so it's easily usable and you have some sort of dictionaries in the sense that you can use even the T9 feature not really the T9 but you can have dictionary and the major advantage is that this is a full desktop environment so you have with one single application we have access to all your application installed you have access to the battery monitor, configuration, whatever and it works actually so then what's the status of today these are the points every core packages are in main which means that you can accept zone which is in new main you can actually use Debian to call and I use every day usually the core package means that the framework daemon, the gsm muxer for the daemon and the configuration package for each device because you need to configure the framework daemon for each specific device and at the moment we support only two device GTA01 and GTA02 and then we have the kernel which is 2.629 it's built from upstream in some like a daemon way we have a daemon package which is not policy compliant, not how the kernel package should be built but at least it works it generates at build time a u-boot image and then it ship the u-boot image so it can be used without any modification the glamour chipset finally someone wanted something to code a xorg driver which is called xf86 and which is now in Debian main already and with this driver you can get rotation of the screen so you can use the screen in the landscape or in portrait mode it is still has some bugs but they are fixing that and mostly they are working on support the array so hardware acceleration and this will probably give very very good improvements in performances because otherwise we are obliged to use the frame buffer device which is some sort of slow there are some missing pieces in FSO framework daemon but this is our upstream problem, these are not Debian specific problem we are still missing a PMI and Wi-Fi application, Wi-Fi application parallel should fulfill these needs at least for what is PIM for wireless connection they are based everything on conman the program by Intel and Nokia but it is still not yet there so they are still missing it and what is probably the main problem is that we are still missing a family functional form graphical user interface there is zone but for example with zone you don't have access to the logs of your calls so if you lose a call or if you have lost a call you cannot know who call you which is quite pity and then they are moving everything to VALA which was the first language that they used for the implementation to VALA the idea was that they used Python because it was quite easy to code and so to move on to define API and whatever and then now that the API is quite stable they are recording everything to VALA there is framework is the first milestone that has some part of the API but it is still not yet there are really very good improvement unfortunately as I will show you later we don't have yet of Debian officially why? okay sorry so the future work we need to fix bugs as usual and this is probably the most hard work to do because we need to not only fix bugs but we need to find the problem with Debian find the problem and then fix them there are not a lot of bugs but there are some nasty bugs which are quite difficult to fix without the same support like there is a bug with wireless sometimes you missed some calls or you missed some SMS which is not really good if you want to use the phone for everyday work there are some changes that are not available there were some non-embedded phones that are not anymore there and we should try to find a better location into the file system actually especially for frame of demo because everything now it works but it is not how Debian would like to have it the kernel is probably the big problem they have submitted patches to upstream kernel fortunately 2631 doesn't boot on the open mock so we need more patches for that just a small subset of patches and we need then to move to Debian kernel infrastructure so we just forget about the kernel and the kernel team build everything for us which is how it should do and the idea is also to provide a general kernel package for all Samsung S3C devices which are actually there are I think 23 devices based on the S3C family and one single kernel should be able to support all of them and finally we need to package new software either coming from distribution like SHR, Qtopia or any other distribution or user contributed software this is especially true because since the open mock is quite handy device and it's quite easily to develop application on it there are quite a lot of application for the open mock and there are quite nice application for that so we need to move on and not only focus on the back end part but even on the front end part and finally this is probably the biggest improvement we really have we are trying to adapt the Debian installer thanks to garden styling to the open mock we had quite a lot of discussion and the idea is to having no Uboot modification so you get your free runner you download something on the microSD and you boot from it and you don't need to modify anything else so the idea is to use a Uboot image we contain the kernel and the initRD and we can create this image but actually the kernel does not load the initRD at the moment so we need to investigate on that there's no physical keyboard so we are obliged to install a console with some preceded values until SSH is bring up and then you can connect and continue the installation either by USB or activating the wireless LAN and then continue by LAN the work is ongoing we have a first basic support in the sense that locally we can do something but it's not finished yet and again the kernel is the main problem because everyone is compiled now and we are still at 2.6.29 and in order to build Debian installer images we need Debian kernel which we don't have so we are using unofficial kernel and then one point will be to discuss which desktop environment should be the default either matchbox or going as a stream so Illum enlightenment and this will be a choice that we need to do from there the other point is that we would like to install on the flash memory and for the flash memory I think actually Per Anderson because he is working as a Google Summer of Code project adapting the Debian installer to the MTD memory and the first choice will be Mdebian for obvious reason because it's in line with the Debian development it's a Debian project in some sort it's a working and testing solution we don't need to test it and adapt it we don't need to develop anything and we don't need any strange setups and then the second choice but this would be a bit more risky actually is mixing flash memory and microSD so this would be a full Debian installation on the microSD with some part on the flash memory like for example the kernel or very basic root file system whatever mobile phone it works as soon as the microSD is removed everything is broken another disadvantage is that with the separate to separate installation you can still have a backup distribution on the flash memory or on the microSD in that case of a mixed installation you are screwed if everything is wrong so what we are looking for now we are looking for maintenance to port the microSD to Debian we already have some unofficial packages and patches he did a good job and we need to clean these packages and then upload to Debian this will probably break there will not be a clean upgrade path probably from microSD 5.1 to 5.5 and so we need to deal with that E17 so enlightenment is another problem because every time a new the package or E team do a new snapshot there will be something that break so we need to not take care of that but test every new upgrades and there are other stuff that needs to be cleaned the kernel Debian package needs to move to the normal Debian kernel and this will be probably done by Anibal and by Timo with the help of Timo and in this case we should be done is checking every single patches by OpenMoco and be sure if it still applies or not, if it's still needed or not, what does it do because there are some patches in the OpenMoco kernel which are only for for example GTA03 which is now abandoned so we don't need it anymore and it's useless to have them since Fuki now has an OpenMoco I think he will work on Mdebian support so thank you we don't need to support it and at the end the frisma.org guys already started to support other devices so there's like OpenSZX these are Motorola phones HTC which is the same company that produced the Google Android phone and we still have we already have in a framework some support for the SZX models so the idea will then later to support other devices as well so finally these are all the guys in some way sooner or later with the project and I will just finish with that for DPL as usual, maybe next year will be better and everything is available on people.debian.org till the Gizmo slash talks and I accept any question you have I've got a question actually you said the two alternatives was to have it partly on the micro SD card would it not be possible to have something like Mdebian on the flash and then an overlay file system on the micro SD so that you could install packages on micro SD but if you pulled it out it would just be default back to I think it can be possible I think it can be possible but I think that no one have never tried so there's someone in the past that tried to install a real Debian on the internal flash but then you need to adjust everything so every time for example you do an IPT get update, up to get upgrade you need to adjust everything and the micro SD is 256 meg and the default Debian installation is standard one without anything else even without SSH is something like 180 meg I think so and then you add more like a framework and you add 50 meg more so it can be possible and my idea would have to have Debian on the flash memory so you can use the micro SD for everything else for example for GPS you need a lot of data a lot of maps whatever but at that point we are not yet at the point where you can easily move the Debian from micro SD to the flash memory and the last time I tried it was before FOSDM I tried Mdebian it failed for a complete unrelated reason and then I didn't have time to try it but I know that Mdebian can fit on 64 meg so this will leave some space for other stuff on the flash memory as well and we can target also the GTA 01 which has only 64 meg of space actually so I was planning to use my primary as a GPS device for now what is the status of the power management in the current kernel ok so the GPS is probably the best supported device I mean not device but tool in the OpenMoco you don't need any specific kernel it works with every kernel that I tried it and now there were some problems at the beginning because there were some I would say because of how the device is built the micro SD is next to the antenna of the GPS so there was some sort of interference that are now solved and so now you usually get to fix in 50 seconds one minute and then it stays connected and it works and whatever ok but I mean is the phone turned off automatically it depends if you use FrameworkDemon the phone is trying to be turning on and it turns on the GPS only when the application asks for the GPS device but if you don't use FrameworkDemon you can use the GPS without any external application it's GPSDemon compatible so every application that works with GPSDemon works with this GPS and you can even start FrameworkDemon and disable all the other sub devices except the GPS so you can think and I think that the best thing is always to use FrameworkDemon because this is our upstream work this is where the most efforts are put and if you do that what will it run for? I think so when we arrived here by bike by motorbike Roland has a GPS part for the last day and I think that he switched it on in the morning when he left together with GSM function and at the end of the day it has something like 10-11% of the battery with GPS on and phone yeah we don't know how long GPS only is yet no I don't think there's any benchmark for that I'll find out next week the major problem about power management is the GSM chipset because there's some not hardware problem but by auto design there's some probably bugs most of the time you cannot use the deep sleep state of the GSM chipset which means that if the GSM work as it is intended to they made some tests and it can last for 15 days 14 days and this is not the case yet so if you start GSM network then you lose power a lot of power actually yeah it's on the barriers here I don't want to give you more work but it'd be nice if you provide daily or weekly images for testing do you intend to do it? I'm actually I'm against providing the images or root because so is that when you install Debian which takes more or less one hour with a normal ADSL connection which means 6 meg download and I tried at the university with the very fast internet connection and it took 50 minutes 50 so the difference is not really how do you say it's not big I'm against because you have everything which is in the phone while you install it you test the microSD to be sure that it works you test the internet connection you test your setups and so this is something that probably I would expect other people do the idea is that if you provide the tarball or the image we cannot provide any image because the microSD can be different in size we can provide the tarball they provide the tarball and then you extract the tarball on the microSD and then you are gone but I personally would be against such a kind of of distribution actually because the problem is that I can provide a tarball which is not updated now because I built it one week ago and then you try to update and upgrade and it happened that your microSD is not broken but it cannot work because you have microSD control of the OpenMoco and so you are not sure if it's your microSD if it's a mirror or if it's something else so usually I found that if the installation finished without any problem there will be no problem from the hardware part and if it's not finished if it stops for example like the problem we had now we need to debug it and so it can be a microSD problem or other kind of problem microSD card that don't work at all for no specific reason and some other that work very well it can be the frequency of the card that I've read I've read something about that I don't know what kind of card you can set there was a patch about the frequency and the way to set the frequency and it seems some card would work and for some other note and the major problem is that the microSD card reader is so this is where the microSD card reader and the GSM part are the microSD card reader is here the GSM SIM is here and the GPS is here so there's a lot of interference and hardware interference and so sometimes I have a 4G card a Kingston one which does not work at all on the OpenMoco and which works nicely on my laptop and so it's really, there's a page on the OpenMoco wiki about which card works and which card does not work and usually you can check on that and be sure that you buy a new card that works Did anyone test well, have any experience of flashware just running standard Debian on an SD card because certainly my experience in the past has been very bad indeed using X3 but that was a while ago they've got better Yeah, this is another discussion point by default the Debian the install.sh script use X3 for the root and it seems that it should be safe in some way but we don't have any proof of that and so anyone can choose, you can choose by a variable but there are no benchmark, there are no real papers or any news about that and it depends on the card it can depend on the card so old controllers used to only do proper wear on the front of the disk because that's where the fat because the table lives and the X3 table is right at the end but I think maybe modern ones are better the other thing is I guess do we turn off A time in the configuration it is turned off for the microSD for everything actually even for, for example, we have var run and var lock on MPS and we turn off A time even if it should not matter but it's every way it's turned off yeah but again no one has do real benchmarks I don't know if I'm a user myself but I've been thinking seems to me that I think there could be, or at least could have been a lot more adoption as you said the phone UI functionality is not really there and one of the reasons why I haven't really even seriously considered getting an open Moco Myself is that I really don't want a phone without a phone so well I've seen a lot of what seem to me to be really cosmic projects doing all kinds of stuff with GPS and everything and I've heard heard of people saying that we want to get the basic framework right before we do the fancy UI but I really must say this all seems quite backwards to me so this is even my first concern this is, for me at least this is a phone and then once the phone is there you can do more stuff you can use it for GPS you can use it for wireless connection voice over repeat for whatever you want but at the beginning it's a phone and unfortunately something like three years later after the first device was conceived and built we still don't have any stable phone stack and I can use it as a real life phone because I don't need a phone actually so in the sense that for my work I don't need it everyone usually know where I am I work in a lab I'm always there and if someone need it you can call me but on the normal landline phone but I can understand for people that need a phone for their work this is not possible and not only because the phone stack is not stable but also because for example you have only the contact on the SIM so if you have more than 250 contacts or you have a very old SIM you are stacked so it's they are working on it there have been really big improvements I started to use it as a phone at the time of 8 because my other phone died before just before living so I was obliged to use it but then since then I changed my usage of the phone if I cannot reply I don't care if I cannot send an SMS I don't care but if I'm in trouble and I need 5 minutes to switch on the phone that's a problem because 5 minutes are very very long time so I completely agree I saw that most of the people were actually were happy to have a gadget a playing machine but there are not a lot of people that think about the open market as a phone as a real phone and since there are not a lot of people who work on the phone stack or anyway on the frisma phone stack there are 4 people actively working on that and it's quite difficult to do very very big improvements in one time now that there's a company that should support frisma phone we can have we can think that there will be some changes and probably the phone stack will progress faster but we don't know and the other problem is that other companies are not really keen to invest on that because there's no phone capabilities so it's something like yeah it's not there but no one is going on so it's progressing but you need to be patient I mean you need to wait it's like debian it's really like debian then we still have only 5 minutes I think in the zone phone application are there plans by somebody inside or outside to add the call log capability is it difficult first? I don't know I don't know if it's difficult or not but the idea was that zone is a demo application so the GUI the GUI of zone is like this since not the beginning it gets restructured but I think 8 months something like that and everything else every new improvement application which are part of the SHR distribution and so we should check in that case but zone is not no more developed but no new feature are added to zone they don't want actually and I can agree if the zone would have been used as a real application people restart to complain add new feature fix back whatever in that case zone is working and the problem that you have with the call with the SMS with the GPS are not zone related so I don't think that we can add everything else we stay like this and we should really move on the other application which are actually SHR use the first application that were developed for the OpenMoco the OM 2007.2 distribution which was a GTK version and this were the single separate application for contests, an application for SMS an application for phoning capabilities and they were the application developed by OpenEndHand which was a UK company later built by Intel and they were part of the GNOME mobile project so SHR got this application and they ported it to enlightenment libraries and to the framework demo this application already integrated in framework demo they are not yet in Debian they will be sometime and they are the future in a sense so we will abandon zone as soon as possible as soon as possible I think it's okay because we had 5 minutes so thank you