 We're so pleased this morning to welcome special envoy for Yemen, Tim Linderking, for a discussion behind the scenes diplomacy that led to the offloading of more than a million tons of oil from the decaying sapphire tanker in the Red Sea. We're also honored to be joined this morning by Yemen's ambassador to the US, my good friend ambassador Elhadrami, welcome. And to the former US ambassador to Yemen, my good friend Barbara Bodine, Barbara, very nice to have you here. Sapphire has been a major international issue for a number of years with very high stakes. Everyone who was involved in the issue knew that if the oil that was on that tanker was not offloaded, one of the world's largest maritime ecosystems would almost certainly be destroyed. And what everyone knew would be a catastrophic environmental disaster. This didn't happen. And the reason it didn't happen is because of diplomacy, determined, creative diplomacy that involved enemies who were at war with each other, multiple international stakeholders, and tens of thousands of environmentalists who, amongst other things, crowdsourced enough funds to pay for this operation. What we want to do this morning with a special envoy is to look more deeply at this kind of creative diplomacy. What we've learned from it and whether this kind of diplomacy is a model for preventing future crises and future efforts to coordinate across the international system. Before we start, just a few words of introduction. Special Envoy Lendrking is a career member of the senior Foreign Service. Prior to his current role, he served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Arabian Peninsula Affairs in the Near East Bureau at the US Department of State. I was very privileged at that time to be in Tim's orbit. And all of us who had that privilege regarded you as one of our finest counterparts. Special Envoy Lendrking, before that, from 2013 to 2016, served as the Deputy Chief of Mission at the US Embassy in Riyadh. Tim, welcome. Thank you. With your permission, we would like you to set the scene. And to do so based on your deep, rich experience in the region, hopefully you can not only explain the context within which the evacuation of oil from SAFRA occurred, but also with your permission, all of us want to know what your thoughts are on the war between Israel and Hamas and the regional implications of that crisis. Starting off with a tough question. But thank you, Elise, so much for hosting me and to all of you for coming and taking time out of your schedule to talk about Yemen. It's not the most obvious topic. There's a lot going on in the region right now. But I know there are a lot of friends of Yemen here and people who are working in your own way to make a difference. It's always an honor to be with Ambassador Hadrami and Ambassador Baudin. When she was ambassador, I was on the other end of some of her phone calls. And so her and you ambassadors being here. But thank you to USIP for hosting us and giving us some time to talk about the very important and dare I say, a lot of positive developments on Yemen, far from perfect, far from over. But the one thought I want you all to take away from this conversation, Yemen has an opportunity for peace. And it must be seized. So that's you and us, the governments pulling together and really concretizing the efforts that have been made over the last year and a half, which couldn't be done. The software is a case in point. Without the conflict parties themselves being willing to talk to each other and problem solve. And that thread really must be pulled on. And when Yemen is facing and the region is facing the kind of challenge from what's going on in Gaza, this is particularly important. So the chance, I think, to talk with you today about why Yemen matters and why it should be on your minds, I think, is my foremost message to you. When I was appointed special envoy in February of 2021, right at the start of the Biden administration, Yemen may not have been the most obvious case study in which to appoint an envoy. At that time, 2021, there were more than 400 missiles in other aerial attacks from Yemen into Saudi Arabia and neighboring countries. It was a hot war at that time. Saudi Arabia was striking targets inside Yemen. And so there was constant fighting going on. There was loss of life on a daily basis. Yemen became known least you were there as the world's most dire humanitarian situation. And it still is dire. And given the fact, I think that the toll on the Yemeni people is as great as it has been really underlines the urgency of why this conflict is important. I was very honored that Joe Biden selected me to take this position, having worked on Yemen in the Gulf for a number of years. And I think the progress that we've made is quite significant because up until the Gaza war, let's talk about that over those 18 months since there was a truce in Yemen in April 2022, which we could spend a lot of time talking about how that came about. But the fact that the parties came together agreed on a truce two months at a time, renewed for two months, renewed for two months for six months, till October 2022. And then the truce lapsed. There were some strong demands from the Houthis at that particular time that could not be met. And the truce lapsed. And believe me, here in Washington, DC, on October 3rd, I lived in fear that the war was going to start again that day. It did not because the commitment of the parties, I think, has been significant enough to want to give diplomacy a chance. It's no coincidence that amidst of that period of confidence building that the software started to take move. And here was an issue that had stymied the international community for eight years. And you can read online about the software as a dead ship. There were no staff except for a few very dedicated technicians on board, ticking time bomb, 1.1 million barrels of oil. As Lee said, imagine the Red Sea coated with an oil slick that would have been four times the size of the Exxon Valdez. Many of us remember that as a catastrophic event that took place in Prince William Sound in the 1980s. And what it did to marine life and shipping, 10% of global commerce passes through the Red Sea. You've got the Suez Canal on the north side. Maybe we could show the map of Yemen at this particular time just so everybody can situate what we're talking about here. But you have a situation where there was this decrepit ship, which was in danger of leaking or exploding, being out on the Red Sea, unmanned, unmaintained, and basically rotting out there with all the oil on board. And it's a massive ship. I mean, this thing is the length is four football fields. So just imagine your favorite quarterback trying to throw a pass. You're only going to get a quarter of the way down the software. So I think that was quite significant. You see the map of the Arabian Peninsula there and Yemen and the FSO software, a floating storage ship in red there off the coast. And so I think the fact that in the midst of this period, when the truce was just starting to take effect, is also the time at which the software really started to move. And we jumped in with both feet here to join the UN in leading an international effort, which saw an incredible coalition of countries and individuals, the Yemeni private sector coming forward as the first private sector, companies to make a pledge, school kids from Bethesda, Maryland, who got seized with the possibility that the oil spill was going to damage sea life. And if any of you have been to the Red Sea, you may have scuba dive there. It's a pristine area. There's almost no development on the west side or the east side. It's a spectacular and very raw and beautiful area. And so the destruction would have been massive. It would have crippled the Yemeni fishing industry, which is so vital to the country of Yemen. You see that long coastline on the west side and the south coast. So major implications, 70% of world energy supplies moving through the Red Sea. A slick would have shut down the Babel Mendev at the southern opening of the Red Sea, destroying sea life, marine diversity. So it was amazing to me that the US, and particularly after credit, the Secretary of State said, we have to do this. And he led an effort, I think, for the US to be one of the first funders. And for a while, our $10 million was the biggest donation. And it forced everybody, I think, to get in the game here. This is real. There's an opportunity. Huge thanks to the UN, Lisa, your successor, all the work that you did to highlight the issue. David Gressley also did a tremendous job signing a memorandum of understanding between the Houthis and the Yemen government and the UN to get this effort done. And we jumped in and helped move it forward. I can keep talking. Tim, did you want to talk about the Israel Hamas War and the implications? Well, I've just come back from the region. And there was a deliberate timing for this visit. Most of my bureau and my colleagues were really seized with the conflict between Israel and Gaza, which kicked off in the most heinous manner with the attack on Israel on October 7. But Secretary Blinken did two things right away. He received the UN envoy, Hans Grunberg in Washington in the midst of all this two weeks ago. And in the pre-brief that I had with the Secretary, he said, we've got to keep the Yemen diplomacy going. I was incredibly grateful that he took time out of his schedule, his sort of full court press on this issue with Ukraine going on, with Afghanistan going on, with Ethiopia going on, to spend time with the UN envoy and reiterate some really important messages about the importance of the UN role, transitioning the important talks between Saudi Arabia and the Houthis that have been going on that you may have read about. And this is a key factor in what's propelled us forward, taking that time, and then also saying, Tim, you need to get out there and support this effort. United States wants to show Yemen's a priority, as the president said back in February. We need to keep this going. I will say that in my trip to Oman and Saudi Arabia in this particular visit, Gaza came up in every single conversation. I mean, there's no question that the Yemenis feel passionately about what's going on. And I think most of us, I imagine, are Middle East people in some respect, and the people who are watching as well. We all feel the impact of the loss of life that is taking place, and that is inexcusable from any either side to perpetuate. So I think the president has waded in a very, very important manner to talk about the importance of humanitarian side, but also to counsel the Israelis about how this might look going forward, or to at least think about American ideas. But this is an issue that I think was felt very strongly within Yemen. I think it was very unfortunate that the Houthis decided to launch missiles and UAVs last Friday toward Israel. My worst fear, of course, is that Yemen gets dragged into another war, and this war is not over yet. So there's no patience on our part to see this happen. There's no tolerance, I think, to see this happen. What we want to, I think what we want to do is move to a better place in Gaza, so it's less emotional for everybody concerned. Because again, I think if you look at the progress that's been made over the last year and a half, there is this opportunity to end this conflict. And we want to do our best as the United States to protect the gains that have been made. I mean, Sunni Airport is flying commercial flights for the first time since 2016. It's a drop in the bucket, folks. I'm not suggesting that everybody can suddenly move around, but it's a start. And more than 100,000 Yemenis have been able to get out of Yemen to Jordan. We want other countries to join and receiving flights of Yemen's national carrier. But God, it was a great moment when that started. We all felt things are starting to move. There was a big prisoner exchange last April. Prisoners from all sides of the conflict with help from the ICRC and other elements to release these. There are many more prisoners that need to be released. But overall, over the last year and a half, you've had an end to those cross-border attacks that were happening at such an alarming clip. And you've had a climate of de-escalation. Yemenis have been able to move around the country. Humanitarian assistance has been able to get into more remote areas. I think the ambassador would be the expert. But I think Yemenis may sense that there's a moment when this could be the end of the conflict. There's a huge amount of work, as I say, that needs to be done. But we want to make sure that the Yemen effort can go forward. I think what the president has asked me to do and the secretary to support this effort and keep going with the progress that we've made. Tim, thank you. And two things were very striking in your comments. One was the implicit worry, fear maybe, that all of the progress made on Yemen in the last year and a half is at risk with the crisis in Israel and Gaza. And that everything that might be possible could be undermined in a snap of the finger. He also said something very important about those of us who study diplomacy and in one way or another try to exercise it. You talked about the fact that there were confidence-building measures which were made possible because Saudi Arabia and the Houthis were involved in peace talks. The logic that many of us are taught when we go to Georgetown and other institutes of diplomacy is that the way you get to peace negotiations is through confidence-building measures. But you were very clear in the chronology and said, actually, we started to make progress on things like the airport and like SAFR when the two parties were sitting at the table. You want to share your views on the sequencing of confidence-building measures? You are handling one of the most sensitive diplomatic files in the US government. Do you use confidence-building measures to get people to the table? Do you use them when they are at the table? Do you advance them because they're at the table? I mean, I think it's a great question. You have to do all three. I think that there were certain factors, I think that made a truce possible. I think neither side at that point felt that they could impose their will on the battlefield. I think there's a certain point at which when the warring factions can't achieve all their aims, they may take a moment to reflect. I think the Yemeni population is absolutely tired and fed up with this fighting. And they want a chance to get back on their feet and rebuild their country. And we should be 150% behind the effort to support that. And whether it's through humanitarian work or supporting the uplift of the Yemen economy, which is struggling, is vital. But things like prisoner exchanges really make a difference because you don't get that if people aren't willing to cooperate. There is a prisoner's committee. There is a military committee. There are political committees. These committees have been meeting, not always successfully, but they've been meeting. And so the combatants or their representatives have been in the same room together, a little bit of rhetorical throwing of chairs, but no literal throwing of chairs. And that's to be expected because there are very strong emotions, I think, involved. And that's even without the Gaza situation. But I think the commitment of the parties to forge ahead with the truce, which I would say is still holding, right? There have been exceptions to this. There's been some violence. Along the border, four Bahraini soldiers were killed a few weeks ago. But contrast that with the progress that's been made and the fact that Saudi Arabia and the Houthis have had several rounds of talks. Let me not say negotiations or characterize them, but they're talking. And by the way, when President Biden went to Saudi Arabia in July last year, he said to the Saudis, we think that it would be very helpful for you to talk directly to the Houthis. I'm not saying the Crown Prince is doing this because the president asked him to. But when you get to the issue that you raise, Lise, at some point, the combatant parties have to sit down together. Nobody can do the talking for them or the negotiating for them. They have to talk together. And there have been several rounds where Houthis and Saudi Arabia have been in talks before. There was a long peace talks in Kuwait in 2016, 111 days. And it seemed like there was progress. And then the Houthis pulled back. And the role of Iran, I think, also needs to be looked at very closely here. Can they turn for what we feel is a very negative posture toward Yemen, arming and smuggling weapons into Yemen? Can that be stopped in the context of the Saudi-Iran agreement, which was a big deal that happened this spring? So I think we also have to look at the way that regional peace efforts, and leaning toward de-escalation in the region among long-time combatants and leaders who have not gotten along for decades, that can be a net positive. And so I'm counting on these various cushions to help lift us up. But we also need to see tangible results, like prisoners being exchanged in airports open and humanitarian supplies moving through. So there's a long way to go, but I think there's been some very important progress. Tim, everyone looking at the Middle East is aware that one of America's competitors, adversaries, China, is playing an important and increasingly visible role in diplomacy. Whereas the United States would have been one of the lead peacemakers in the region, one of the major diplomatic forces, the landscape is changing. You mentioned the deal between Saudi Arabia, the rapprochement between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It wasn't the United States that did that, it was China. As we rethink the U.S.'s role in the Middle East, and as it evolves and changes, how do you see U.S. diplomacy? And specifically, you've been associated with a very special part of American diplomacy. When we're not necessarily the lead negotiator at the table, but when we are the indispensable country making sure that things move forward. Well, I think if you look at the Iran-Saudi agreement, a lot of progress had been made over the year and a half before that, that the Omanis were helping to broker that there were talks in other countries as well between the Saudis and the Iranians. So that effort was well underway, I think when they were able to reach or to announce an agreement in Beijing. And what I've found so far is that, you know, the United States officially welcomed this. And in fact, we have good cooperation with the Chinese on Yemen. And we have what we call P5 meetings. For example, last week in Riyadh, we had a P5 meeting that's the members of the Security Council, the permanent members, U.S., Russia, China, the UK and France. And we're all in the room together. And most of what we're talking about is totally convergent between the five of us on Yemen. We don't have that in many other venues within the P5. But the Russians want a political solution to Yemen. They do not want a military solution. The Chinese want a political solution. They do not want a military solution to Yemen. Believe me, when I think of the tools that we have in our kit to push toward this effort, I look at something like that and I say, that's an important asset to have. And it needs to be maintained because none of these things are on some kind of autopilot. You have to keep maintaining these contacts, these relationships, these discussions. We don't publish the photos from these meetings. We don't tweet about them. But we do it quietly, until I announced it to all of you. We do it quietly because it's effective and you've got to have coalitions supporting you. We've got to have the Security Council behind us. There could be, if all goes well, a moment when the UN is going to step in and take over this effort, which is what we're driving toward, with two goals in mind, a durable ceasefire. So we move from the truce that we have to a durable ceasefire and Yemeni-Yemeni political talks. And the latter I just have to say, that's the most important thing that we can do is find a way to bring the Yemenis back together in one place with their leaders negotiating the future of their country. And that's what the United States is committed to, nothing short of that because that conversation, nobody, no outsider, not us, not the Saudis, not the Emiratis, not the Iranians, not the Chinese, the Russians, none of us can make those decisions for Yemenis. And it is their country and we want to see that effort go forward in the near term. I feel that the sooner we can get to the Yemeni-Yemeni dialogue, and I don't underestimate how difficult that is. I've mentioned the confidence-building measures, but there's eight years of hostility and lack of trust and lack of confidence and vilification of both sides. And that has to be pulled back for the combatants to move forward and make decisions. And when we talk about a Yemeni-Yemeni dialogue, we mean women, Yemeni women too. We don't just mean a group of PLC, Presidential Leadership Council representatives and Houthi representatives. We mean a more comprehensive and inclusive Yemeni-Yemeni dialogue. You look back at the national dialogue that took place in Yemen in 2014, which is a moment of hope. It's my first trip to Sana'a. And it was a wonderful time that got bulldozed or hijacked, but Yemenis know what to do. Let's get them together. So they can make the decisions about their country. Tim, one of the reasons we were so excited about having you come to the Institute was to talk about creative diplomacy. And one of the aspects of creative diplomacy is that people who wouldn't typically be involved in negotiations or in a diplomatic initiative become so. You mentioned in your introduction that oil companies were involved in the offloading from software, that the private sector was involved, that school children from across the river were involved, that a broad coalition of international actors were involved, that's extraordinary. Can you say more about how that coalition came together and what we're very interested in is how did you ensure from the perspective of the US that it was all gonna work in harmony, that they would all be coordinated? How did you help to make that happen? I mean, I think there was something appealing to multiple audiences about the software. I mentioned the school kids, they got fired up because of the effects on marine life and fish and sea turtles and the sea coast. But there were others, I think, there was an environmental, there was support from environmental organizations who wrote letters and jumped in on the campaign. We felt there was a particular need for oil companies to support this effort and several did. We'd like to see more because there's still as a funding gap that needs to be filled before the effort is really brought to conclusion. Right now, we'll put up the picture of the two ships side by side, the software on the left with the Nautica, which was the new ship, that received the oil from the software. You could see how decrepit the software looks, but a massive ship and the oil was piped from the software onto the Nautica. But it's interesting, we didn't do a lot of naming and shaming, but we got, I think we inspired a number of countries to come forward. Why? Because so many countries benefit and participate in world commerce through the Red Sea. And you, so the coalition was everything from South Korea to Norway to Switzerland to Cyprus, Saudi Arabia, the Germans, the Dutch played a tremendous role and they played our leadership role in this effort. And I mentioned the sort of broad coalition. The fascinating thing here, and this is another important message, I think, for all of us is when you can motivate a coalition like this, you can actually prevent a problem from becoming a crisis. And our world diplomacy is constantly back-footed by responding to the bomb that goes off, the leadership that has just collapsed. When here we all saw that there was a problem that needed to be fixed. And it was just interesting how this story appealed across a number of different sectors. But it also needs to be generated from somewhere. And I think we gave it a huge push from day one. We had an incredible advocate, Ambassador Eladrami. Thank you for all you did, Ambassador. And the government of Yemen also saw that this was a ticking time bomb that was going to be bad for the region, for Yemen, exacerbating the problems that we're already facing. But you got to get the story out. And a couple of journalists got seized with this. They helped us. And so this was a motivator. And by the way, I would just add that there's a lot of skepticism about multilateralism, that it can't be used to address a crisis. This is an exception. It can be, the power of nations can be harnessed. And I'm especially pleased that in the midst of everything that was going on in the world, there was a Russian war in Ukraine. There are problems in the Middle East, but folks fixated on this and said, we've got to get it done. And that's why we were so excited to explore this with you. Because if you look at the television every morning and you see military build-ups, US military build-up with us deploying carriers and warships and other strike capabilities, not only in the end of Pacific, now in the Mediterranean, and other parts of the world, and then you have this effort. They couldn't be more different. You have the manifestation of US military superiority, and then you have American soft power. So you sit on that cusp, on that tightrope between them. Can you share your reflections about what you think is more effective? I think there's a time for both. I mean, obviously, my career, I'm someone who's spent time in Iraq, as you did at least two years working there. And I generally, in my career, don't gravitate toward the lovely countries. I mean, I do want to at some day drink Chardonnay and look at the glaciers in New Zealand, but that's not the moment. And so I appreciate that there are times when American power has to be used, but I think let's not overuse it. And that's not always, the hammer is not always the best tool for the nail. And I think there are moments here where we're trying to demonstrate, and the software is just a good sort of symbol of this, that coalition-building multilateral efforts, the UN, which gets such a bad rap in many different environments. But I think the UN has delivered big in Yemen, both with this effort on the humanitarian side and what is going to come from a UN-led peace process. And so those institutions exist for a reason. But again, I think it takes leadership to pull them together and not to resort to the barrel of a gun. And we are in a moment, I think in Yemen, where things like this can happen. And I'm, as I said at the beginning, I am afraid of what would happen if the Gaza conflict grinds on and we see more inflammation in the region and pressure on actors across the spectrum to get involved. I said, I talked to a lot of Yemenis on this last trip. And even though Gaza came up in every single conversation, not one of those people said Yemen should get drawn into the war. Yemenis do not want to get drawn into another conflict. I mean, I think we're all trying to work to get out of this conflict. And this conflict has a long way to go and needs a lot of help still, needs a lot of international support, and it needs a full-on engagement and support of the US, of the United States. In this particular context, we are looked at as a very important, very important actor. I think we need to use how to, we know how to, we need to know how to use the tools wisely and carefully. So Tim, one of the things that this institute does is to work particularly with young, aspiring diplomats, mediators and negotiators and talk about the actual mechanics of how you bring belligerents together, war and parties together, people who have grievances that are unresolved, how do you get them together? And how do you actually, when you're all sitting at the table, progress toward a solution? This is an example of where that was done. Many of us who know about this know it would never have happened without US determination and the kind of leadership Tim that you personally exhibited and pushed. Can you comment on what it's actually like at the table and how it was possible to bring people who didn't want to agree, who were fighting each other to a common understanding of what needed to be done? How'd you do it? I mean, I think there are a couple of ingredients. One is you have to have the backing of your leadership and having the President and Secretary of State support what we're doing on Yemen is critical. And the fact that the President announced Yemen so early in the administration, that caught me by surprise, believe me. And I was given a little bit of a heads up that they wanted me to do this assignment. Hell yeah, I said right away I wanted to do it. Because I saw it as an opportunity for the United States to have a positive impact. I didn't necessarily feel that the conditions in Yemen were right. As I said, at that time there was a hot war going on. But I felt we needed to give it our best shot. I think relationship building in my particular case had spent a lot of time working in the Gulf and knew the Saudi leadership and many of the Yemeni leaders, the Emirati leaders, et cetera. But you gotta be able to deal with the full spectrum. You've gotta deal with the people who hate America. And ultimately that's part of what has to happen. And I think you have to set aside a lot of personal perspectives. You're representing the United States, you're in a meeting or a conversation or negotiation as a representative of the United States. It's not there, I'm not there as Tim Lenderking. And I find that despite what is commonly said, the United States has a lot of influence in the Middle East still. And I think again that the various parties in Yemen are looking toward us to use it in a positive and balanced way. And I think there's scope. One of the things that we did very early on with our team is start moving around the region, the Gulf region, sort of enlisting everybody in this effort. Hey, you just got a moment from President Biden saying the US thinks we should work hard on this war in Yemen. So just getting everybody's attention, I think was one of the first challenges. But everybody's tired of this war. The Emiratis are, the Saudis are. And as I said, nobody more than Yemenis. But being able to call on their influence. And Oman, I think particularly as a neighboring country of Yemen, playing an important role here, has been essential to building the kind of international coalition to push for a Yemen peace effort that can be sustained. Yemen's had peace efforts before and been in and out of war. I think our hope is that we can work with Yemen to get it on a more stable path so we can talk about a durable resolution of the conflict. Not something that lasts five years. And then the parties tip back into it because things are set on a house of cards. No, I mean, that's why the Yemeni-Yemeni conversation is so vital to this. This is their country and they have to be the ones to make the key decisions. I know that you have been a champion as you represent the United States on this file. You've been a champion of the role of women in the peace process and the role of civil society. Not all American diplomats are. American diplomacy is often known for being tone deaf to the role of civil society, the role of women. But you're not like that. Can you share with us why you think the role of women in civil society is so important? I mean, I think, you know, every study shows that the investment that women bring to a peace effort increases the chance of a durable solution and pick your conflict. That's what experts say. And I know that talking to Yemeni women of which there are many, many fine and wonderful and very energetic Yemeni female leaders living in different countries outside of Yemen but also in Yemen, they are so eager to be involved and to have their voices heard. And I think they bring an essential perspective to the table. And, you know, we've had some conversations with Yemeni youth as well. Some of it has to be virtual. Our ability to move around in Yemen is very constrained. I mean, we haven't had an embassy there since 2015. So we don't have a diplomatic presence. I'm able to get to Yemen a couple of times a year but these tend to be short visits and we can't spend a lot of time on the ground. But we meet with civil society when we do that. When we go to Aden, we talk to Yemeni women leaders from around a southern Yemen who, yeah, they'll spend the three hours or the four hours to get to the place and get inside and meet us. It's a vital conversation. So I can only say that we are, you know, we're very much committed to that. I think, you know, I've worked in other battle zones. Before I joined the Foreign Service, I worked in Afghanistan. And so I think having some experience with other conflicts in my early days, I worked on the Thai Cambodian border with refugees, you know, interviewing them for resettlement in the United States. So I would only say that I've tried to bring the experience that I have to bear on this current situation. And I think it's helpful to me. I've always been as a diplomat sort of, you know, my priority has been get to know the people. Don't hang at the embassy and in the fancy housing. Get outside the castle walls, go and meet people, go and talk to people and, you know, try to make a difference because at the end of the day I think it's, you know, to answer your previous question, you don't have impact if you don't have the relationships and you don't get the relationships by jetting in and out for a day. You have to build them, you know, over a long period. You have to drink tea. You have to, you know, break bread together. And you find that you can break bread with your enemies. And that's, you know, when you have that experience you know that you've got a foundation to build on and you are, you know, then possessed with moving forward. A final question, Tim. You people who look at you as diplomacy are aware of one unshakable fact. The role of the United States and the world is changing. We're not the sole superpower. Our diplomacy for the last several generations has been premised on that superpower status and the kind of diplomacy that we've engaged in has been a function of that. How do you see American diplomacy now changing? What do American diplomats have to do differently so that things like this can happen? I mean, I think we're going through a sea change, honestly, at American diplomacy where, you know, we've long passed the Cold War period. We have moved into an era of great technology and social media and, you know, with what used to be called Twitter, everybody has a voice, right? And suddenly everybody's voice is equal with everybody else's and so you hear things from people that were maybe shut out of the dialogue before and what comes with that I think is a lot of negativity as well and criticism and so forth. But I think, you know, diplomacy is now about using a variety of tools. But I come back to what's the most important which I think is the personal relationships. That's never gonna change. We're not going to be as effective if we do everything virtually. You've got to sit with people. You've got to hear their concerns. So I think that's the nucleus. At the same time, you know, the relationships have changed in the region. Every one of the countries in the Gulf, I could say, has a vision 2030 or a vision 2040 and they're trying to move out and their young leaders by and large. And they have visions for their society and they include economic development. They include generally strong elements of tolerance even though there are, you know, persistent acts of intolerance that still exist. And we would be wise to understand those new leaders, emerging leaders. In the Gulf in particular, there's a tremendous amount of wealth that can be, you know, harnessed. But everybody wants, from what I see, with a few exceptions, wants to see peace in the region. Now, there are huge hurdles to that. But again, I come back to the point I started with. There is a moment of, this is a moment for Yemen to seize peace. And it will take the Yemenis but also the coalition of actors array. If the Chinese want to play an important role, most welcome. If the Russians want to play an important role, I mean a positive role, bring it on. That's good. So where we can get support for driving a peace effort, we want to look at all those corners because I think it's going to take that, Lise. I think it's going to take, it's a broad and multifaceted effort. Tim, with your permission, we have time for two, three questions. Please. Colleagues, may we invite questions from the floor? Chris. Curious, I'm watching the conflict in Sudan really closely. And I'm curious what advice you would have for our diplomats negotiating in that conflict to have kind of these kinds of solutions. The only reason I'm even going to hesitate, I mean, going to attempt and answer that because I worked in Sudan some years ago. But I don't think the conflicts are similar, right? Sudan and Yemen, they may share some fundamental similarities. I think one is the role of the outside actors, particularly Saudi Arabia and the UAE in the Sudan conflict. Now, the fact that we as diplomats cannot assume that because countries work together on one conflict that they're going to work together harmoniously on another conflict. And so, the kind of international coalition building that we're seeing on Yemen, it doesn't necessarily exist with those same countries on another problem set. And so again, I think you fall back on the basics. Who's going to go out and build the relationships? Is there a clear mandate from the leadership to bring the conflict to an end? Is there a will on the parties inside? And I don't see that in Sudan. Again, I'm not the expert, but I don't see the will on the part of the Sudanese leaders on the ground to end this. I think I see attempts to gain more influence, more territory. It's vital in the Yemen context, I think, to prevent a return to fighting. And that's why I think the diplomatic effort is so important right now and so timely. Other questions? Sir. Yeah, thank you so much. So you mentioned, thank you, I shouldn't introduce myself, I guess, Tyler Pry with Safer World. So you talked about Houthi and Saudi talks, and sometimes that seems to get conflated at least in the media with peace in Yemen. But then you talked about Yemeni-Yemeni dialogue as the way to get to that. Is this a sequencing question to some degree, like get the Saudis to pull out, get them to support it, then we can do Yemeni-Yemeni dialogue. Can we do it both together? And how can we bring some of the creative diplomacy to the Yemeni-Yemeni side, so we're not just relying on Houthi-Saudi talk, but then we can get a bigger table for ultimately Yemeni, intra-Yemeni peace process. Thank you. Thank you. I think the talks that the Saudis and the Houthis are having are vitally important. And from what I hear, not being in the room, I think they're making some progress. And the rounds of what's reported in the papers of Houthis going to Saudi Arabia and Saudi leaders going to Sanaa is extremely important. But you're absolutely right. That doesn't equate from our point of view what they can do together to peace in Yemen. They can make progress, but then the progress that they attain has to be passed over to an international process. And that's where I think the UN has such an important role to play as sort of the rallier of the international community. We can do a lot of that, but it's very helpful to have a competent UN envoy as we have in Hans Grunberg, who I think could help marshal the effort, get the security council, set some priorities. But where I think the crucial decisions are made are between the Yemenis. And that, I think, is what we are counting on this process moving toward. And keeping the buffer as strong as we can from whatever outside conflict is going to impinge on Yemen. If it's not Gaza today, it could be Iraq tomorrow. It could be Lebanon the following day. There's always something going on in the Middle East, so it's never a perfect or sanitized environment. But again, that's why the elements of the Yemeni peace effort, I think, have to be pushed and prioritized at this particular time. Good to see you. My name's David Muthana from Washington Center for Yemeni Studies. We have seen the peace talks and the visits between Saudi Arabia and Houthis. So what's the next step? And are there any obstacles? I think the obstacles that you're facing are first and foremost that there's been eight years of fighting between, well, in Yemen. And that's not something that has overcome overnight. But when we talk about confidence building, these two sides spending four or five days in the capital of these countries is quite significant. I'm confident that these conversations will put at least one essential building block into place by getting an understanding between these two important combatants about the way forward. Again, it has to go into a Yemeni Yemeni process for it to be durable and sustainable. So we're at that point, I think, when we're looking for Saudi Arabia and the Houthis to reach agreement on issues between them, which get us into the tent, I think, and into the realm of possibility with the Yemeni Yemeni dialogue. Sir. Hi, Tim. Paul Sutvin from the Global Insights Group. I'd like to go back to the question of the Houthis and Ansar Allah and the conflict in Gaza, seeing a lot of reports of Ansar Allah Houthi threats, as well as the possibility of additional movement of personnel and that kind of thing. How worried are you and what would be a disincentive that could be given for them to stay out of that? I know you once said both the sides aren't interested, but the access of resistance, the pressure of the Iranians, I know the Houthis don't take direction from Tehran, but certainly there's an awful lot of pressure right now given the way this conflict is playing out to take action among that access of resistance. Well, certainly, Paul, I do worry about it and I'll be quite open about it because Yemen sits in a volatile region on a good day. And having this added to our rucksack, which we have to haul up the hill, is very unhelpful. But at the same time, again, I go back to what I'm hearing from Yemenis, that there's no desire to be dragged into this conflict, maybe to convey very strong emotional perspectives, but that's not the same thing as volunteering to fight in that conflict. So I think we just have to do our best to keep the Yemen effort going. I think we have some strong elements in place, as I've noted, we wanna keep moving in that direction and see where we can build. I mean, again, being out in Saudi Arabia and Oman last week had some very, very positive talks about where these two countries and the Yemeni leaders that I met see things going and the work that is needed to get there. So I see a lot of synergy and good cooperation happening. I'm not saying it can totally withstand the pressures of the region, but we have to do our utmost to power forward. Sir. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador, and thanks, USIB, for the invite, bringing especially Yemen and Libya quite often to the Washington scene. Two questions, minor questions, if I may ask. Up until 2019, I think the UN was seeking a narrow agreement for a unified government and then look into the longer-term solution for other issues, especially the South. 2019, I think that, in a way, changed and they're brought in the SDC. From a mediation perspective, is this complicating or would this be a positive thing, the participation of the SDC at this stage? From a technical mediation point of view, if you may. The other question is, should we keep on talking to the Hezbollah, to the Houthis and the Hezbollah and the Hamas, should we do that or should we keep on having some kind of limitations in our talk? Thank you. Yeah, I mean Yemen's a very diverse country, so of course there are a variety of perspectives and points of view at various times in its history. It's been two Yemen's. One can debate whether two Yemen's or one Yemen is better. The Southern Transition Council that you mentioned is part of the ruling coalition, the Presidential Leadership Council. We meet with them regularly. Their leader came to the UN General Assembly with the chairman of the Presidential Leadership Council. Last month in September, they met with Tony Blinken. I thought it was fantastic, by the way, that in the first 48 hours in New York, Tony Blinken had three meetings with Yemenis or about Yemen. Again, I come back to the point that that shows the United States, I think, leadership is in this. So it won't be for us to decide whether there's one Yemen or two Yemen's. I think that's squarely in the realm of the Yemeni-Yemeni dialogue. That's a burning question that's on people's minds. And I think the Yemenis have to address that. Your second question, I can't really speak about talking to Hezbollah, but somebody has to talk to the Houthis. You can't just pretend that they're not there. They are a reality. And they have a point of view. And they have some strength on the ground that you cannot ignore. So they have to be brought in to the peace effort. And as I said, there have been some baby steps here, which have led to positive progress. It needs to be built upon. And with the Yemeni-Yemeni dialogue, would of course include the Houthis. Ma'am. Hi, my name is Britt Gleix-Nerhayat. I'm a visiting fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and used to work at USAID, including on Yemen. My question is about your comment on influence, U.S. influence in the Middle East. You mentioned that you think that the U.S. still has a lot of influence. Can you talk a little bit about what you mean by that? And in the conduct of the conversation over the last few years, what lessons have you taken about where U.S. influence can be best applied? Has there been anything that you've learned that has been a lesson about the extent to which it can be applied, the limitations to it, or moments where it actually was more than you thought it might be? Thanks. Thank you. I think we do have influence. I think the Yemen context is a perfect example of that. It doesn't mean that we can make or break a situation, but I think our engagement is noticed, and it's a reference point, and leaders, people respond in some way to the fact that the U.S. is engaged in the symbolism of naming an envoy is one way which we elevate and sort of document the priority that we're placing on a certain conflict. And then again, the support of the leadership is there, but I do think the region is changing, and I think we have to be very smart and very adaptable about how the Middle East is changing. There are a lot of people who don't like the United States, and remember some of the mistakes that we have made over the years in different venues that is not easily forgotten. So we have to adapt also. I think it's very important to listen to voices in the region, and we're not in a position to impose anything on any country, in fact. I like the fact that the Yemen peace effort enjoys support from a cross-section of Yemen society and Yemen's political parties, and the fact that pretty much all doors are open to us to engage whether people like us are done. I think that's very important. When there's a door open for U.S. diplomacy, we have to go through it and do our best to engage to bring about a better situation. Someone like me I think who's spent a lot of time in the Middle East, Afghanistan and Sudan and other war zones acutely aware of where and when and how we do things wrong. Sometimes we have blinders on, we go in all big supporting one side and we find out that that's not resonant with the people in that country and those are pitfalls. So I get back to the point about being smart. There's no cookie cutter approach for every crisis. We have to assess what can work and what doesn't work and apply soft power and in some cases hard power. We're at the end of our discussion. When, like Barbara, I was based in Yemen at the time representing the United Nations, Ambassador Hadrami had done a fabulous job of getting the United Nations very worried about South Fortaker. And I was requested by the United Nations leadership to please send a code cable and an analysis about what we were gonna do on South Fortaker. And I wrote pages and I looked at it from this angle and that angle and from every angle and at the bottom I said, impossible to solve. Tim, you are the antidote to everyone who is ever pessimistic about a difficult problem to solve because of your leadership, leadership of countless people across Yemen, the unsolvable got solved. Thank you. And may we salute your role and your leader for it. Thank you all, thank you, Liz. Thank you for being with us. Thank you all.