 Welcome to another episode of 420gms on newsclick.in We're at the finals of the FC Bayern Youth Cup, the India finals of this event And with us is legendary left-back World Cup winner, European Championship winner, Champions League winner, multiple Bundesliga winner, Bishanthi Lizarazu. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us this afternoon and of course Arjun Pandit, the co-host of this show. Bishanthi, like a lot of the kids in India who watch sports content is generally ranging from the age of 8 to 12. So for those young boys who are watching right now, would you suggest till what age should they continue playing 5-side football, 6-side football and what is the right time to graduate to then playing 11-side football for you? When I was maybe 14, I started to play 11. First time? Yeah, but doesn't matter, you know, it's the same, play 5 against 5, 7 against 7. This is two goals and one ball and opponents, this is the same football. When you play 11, maybe it's a little bit more tactical because you have more players. And the space is bigger, so you must have better physical condition. But it doesn't matter if you play maybe till 16, 7 against 7, it doesn't matter. You play football, you make dribbling, you make pass, you make shoots and so you are training your ability. But of course one day you have to play 11 against 11 because the big teams, they play this football. Even if football you have many things, you can play such fields, 5 against 5, you can play in little fields, 2 against 2, everything is possible. So just taking off on that, what is your general sort of view in terms of philosophy of youth development? If we are trying to encourage kids to play football in the right way, let's say, what is that right way in your opinion? The right way in my opinion is... Especially for young kids? Yeah, for young kids to train the technique, first of all. For a young player, I don't care about physical training. I want that football is just fun and fun with the ball. And training the ability with the ball. So making a lot of exercise will train your ability with the ball, dribbling, juggling, touching the ball, you know, to be easy with the ball. The ball has to be part of you, you know. The ball has to be friend, it has to be part of you. And when you are okay with the ball, when the ball is not a problem anymore, it's like a part of you, then you can start to play with the others. But to start to play with the other, this is another thing, you know. To have the ability of the ball, to control the ball, it's one thing. And then to play with the others, different, because you have to understand the way they are playing, to try to play together, you know. To make a pass together with three guys. So this is another thing to learn, step by step. But very young, only ability with the ball. Individual technique. And I will say that I prefer to leave freedom to the young player, even if I make too much dribbling. Okay, doesn't matter. Later, I will suggest to have more organization, more discipline, you know. But young, freedom, pleasure, fun. Bishante, just taking cue from that, I was reading up on you. And it was said very early on in your career as a young player, you were said you're not strong enough to play professional football. Now it's something an Indian player can relate to, because we're not generally the most physically strong and big boys to succeed in the world of football, if I may say. What advice would you have to these kids, because you're the perfect role model and example for that? Well, I think football is sports, fantastic because you don't have to be the strongest. You don't have to be 2 meters and 100 kilos. You have a lot of player, little player, very good. And the best at the moment is Lionel Messi, he's 169, like me. And so he's the best one. And you have player of 190, 2 meters and he's the best. And so this is sports will give the chance to player who are not strong, very strong physically, very big. And of course, if you are not strong like others, you must be more clever. You have to think more than the others to make the difference. The others, they can make the difference because they are stronger, they will run quickly, they will have more power. But there is many way to play football, player like Xavi Niesta. You know, it's not player strong, they are so quick and so good technically and so clever that they are better than the other one. And my position, I was defensive player. I was very good in the timing, also I had good aggressivity to be good in defense. I was quick, so yeah, it was not a problem. And for me, it was like a challenge to play against player bigger than me, trying to beat him. You are always up for that challenge, aren't you? Yeah, I love this kind of challenge, yes. It was like a challenge in the match, you know. You have the match, you have to win and also if my opponent was really bigger than me, my challenge was to kill him. In the sports way, yeah. We were just talking to a boy who is going to Viking, he is going to club called Viking in Norway for a trial. He is also 167, and so we were just having the same discussion, like how is he preparing the Norwegian league? I'd imagine there are a lot of big players, a lot of big guys. I remember when I arrived in Germany, never see that in French league, you know. It was like seven or eight player, more than 190. So I imagine in Norway, this is the same, maybe all the players like 190. What sort of advice would you give to a kid like that, who has got four days to impress a club in Norway, with the weather changing and of course the physicality, the intensity being so much? If you are over-ordered in one or two days, try all over, game done and dusted. So then, how do you get set for something like that? You know, the adaptation is not easy, but it is taking time. I had, when I arrived in Bordeaux, in the football school, I had two years, very difficult too. Two years, where the trainer was saying you are not strong enough, you will not be a professional of football because you are too little. How old were you at this point? I was 14 years old. So during two years, 14 till 16, nobody was believing in me, except me. So first of all, you have to believe a lot in you and you have to train a lot. I was making a lot of training, individual training, physical training, you know, to change that. And so, even if a trainer tells you you are not good enough, you have to believe in you, you know. Maybe it's true what he is saying, but I believe that you can't say anything like the end of the street till 20 years old, because when you are young, the evolution of young players is changing a lot. And so in my case, you know, the trainer was talking too much, it was too quick to say that. And I showed that I was good enough because I had the talent and also because I was working for that. So then adaptation, you go in another country, you have to adapt to the way of playing, to the temperature sometimes, when you arrive in Germany or in Norway. Or in India in the summertime. Yeah, right. So you have to adapt. Bishante, we were talking about Bordeaux, about your early years at Bordeaux as well, and you've been very successful at that club, played a long time there. A certain Zinedine Zidane was part of that team as well. Who? Zinedine Zidane. Could you give us a Zidane story, Bishante, from that time? Because I was reading his book and they said very early on you could see his touch, the weight of his pass. It was pretty evident from very early on in his career. Could you tell us something from that time? Well, when we arrived in Bordeaux, he had a special technique. It was not a normal technique you learn in football school. It was a technique coming from the street because he played a lot on the street and he had a different way of making driblings. Like, you know, the special things Zidane was doing on the field. You know, it's not something everybody was doing. And so we said, wow, this guy, he has a really incredible technique, incredible dribbling. But when he arrived in Bordeaux, he was not really fit. You know, he was not strong physically. So you have to train a lot to be stronger physically and step by step, you know, month after month, year after year. He improved and the physical condition was better. And so with the technique he had, he became a better player, very good player, fantastic player, legend player. One of the only players. God player. God player, yeah. But he wouldn't talk much, right? That's what I was reading in the book. He would barely talk. No. On the field he would always talk. He was a shy guy. He was a shy guy when he was a football player. He changed a little bit when he became captain of France. But after, let's say, our generation, we stopped in 2000. No, we stopped in 2004. And in 2006 he decided to be a leader. Because before it was other leaders, so he didn't want to be a leader. But 2006 he decided to be a leader. And so he was talking more. And the big change was when he became trainer. Because really the change of Zidane, his personality changed a lot. He was more open, speaking more, explaining. He was not explaining when he was a football player. He was just playing and it was easier. But when he became trainer, then he had to talk. He had to explain the project to the player, to explain the project to the fans and to the media. And it was new Zidane. Incredible. The legends that you have played with and are among. 20 years after you guys won the World Cup in 1998, France did it again in Russia. How do you compare these two teams? Just in terms of their style of play, of course it's very different. And the run that they had was very different from the run that you guys had through to the final and then to win it. But how do you compare the two in terms of make-up of the squad and how it sort of reflects where French society is also gone or is going over the last 20 years? Because football often sort of explains other things about what's happening in the world as well. It's difficult to compare of course because, you know, generation we had success during many years. We had success in 1998, we have success in 2000. We were the best team in the world during maybe four years. And now, you know, we started football 20 years ago and this time they start the story, you know. And they start the story winning the World Cup, which is great. This is a good start. And they will have to change to make a better story winning maybe European Championship, maybe winning another World Cup, we don't know. But the way of playing is different, the way we were playing, the way they were playing. It's a control team, this team. We were more in control. We had very strong defense. We had Zdan, they had Henbapé. But if I have to say a point which is the same, this is the spirit and the mentality, the preparation. I think the team, this team was very well prepared. Didier Deschamps was really making a good job. And with the same strategy regarding the spirit of the team as Hémé Jaquet. Very good spirit of the team and we had also very good spirit. But they are younger than us, you know, very young team. So it's not the same mentality of course, we were player 28, 29, 30 years old. And it was player 28, 19, 20 years old. The age keeps dropping. Yes, so it's not the same to manage. Totally different. Yeah, mentality. Totally different in this aspect. I just ended on this. Would you ever put a number on a country aiming for something like the World Cup which has now become a 48 team World Cup. Would you ever put a number in terms of say, you have to give yourself at least 20 years or 24 years to even think of getting that. And 20 might be even less I'm saying. I mean might be more given how world football is growing right now. You see what Kathar did right now at the Asian Cup. Yeah, it's very difficult to say. Yeah, it's very difficult to say. Maybe 20 years, but if you look Europe, let's say that the 60s, the 70s was the moment where football started to be very important, where everybody wanted to play football. Because this is the point, you know, it's football. That's why it's improving a lot, because for example in Europe or in South America every child wants to play football. So at school he's playing football. With his friends they're playing football, you know. So that's why if you start young, of course you practice more, you know. So we had like 50 years to have this level, let's say. 50 years long time, so we are talking about 20. 50 years with a lot of work, yes. But with 20 years I imagine you can qualify for World Cup if you manage it well in different aspects, especially the trainer and the way of training and the training you give to your young players. So long road ahead, but a good start. To finish it was longer. I'm sorry, I talk too much. No, no, it's good. It was great to have you on the show. You're the first World Cup winner, first Euro winner, first Champions League winner that we've had. So thanks so much for taking so much time to talk to us. Maybe you will learn me how to play cricket. Yeah, I don't know if I'm any good at that. That's a myth, everyone plays cricket in this country. It's not true. Thank you so much. Thanks for watching guys, see you again next week.