 Hello everybody and welcome to another interview with the artist and today We're sitting down with somebody who who I'm gonna be honest I am a little jealous of because I am I have to work with today We're gonna talk to the man in the world who shames me with his output Trent Denison Big Deno as you're often known. You are a very tall person. That is an absolutely well-earned nickname. It's not ironic in any way How are you doing, sir? I'm very well Vince. Thank you for asking me to be on the show very much appreciated Buddy, I'm very happy to have you here We got to meet in person for the first time very recently as when I was down in Australia And so you were you were great very very nice very Great as a judge in the Crystal Dragon, which if you're ever in the area of Australia or can make it down to Cancon Trent ran that this last year. I think you said mega is gonna run it next year, right? Yeah, that that's what we're hoping for next year. Meg's gonna come back and and bring back the old judging team of Sebastian Archer and Mark Soly so that should be good. So that means I can enter I've been able to enter for the last couple years Whomever is gonna judge it here here would be my absolute recommendation It is one of the best miniature painting competitions I've been to it is incredible the level of talent on display from the Australian community down there It is great artists who were super friendly if you're in the area next year if you can make your way to Cancon there in Canberra You should absolutely do it. It's just I was just blown away, frankly It was it was not what I was expecting because I thought oh, it's a competition is sort of a very gaming focused thing And then I walked in and I was like oh, it's like I walked into a European competition in the middle of in the middle of You know Australia in the middle of nowhere, frankly not to to be insulting the Canberra No, it's definitely not no It's it's it's something we're really proud of actually because it did it did start the way you envisioned it As a gaming convention and the first year was was just you know a couple of guys chucking in models from their army So we've we've really Had had a great progression over the last five years to the point now where yeah We've got some some world-class artists in David Colwell car and ash and It's it's a very high-standard competition. So it's and very welcoming and friendly as well Yeah, everybody was so super nice I I had unfortunately overbooked my schedule and didn't get to spend as much time up there with everybody as I wanted It's something that I plan to absolutely rectify next year when I come back So but we're gonna talk to Trent today about his sort of journey as an artist Because I think you have an amazing journey and an amazing story of what you where you can get when you put The work in when you focus and do the kinds of things I know you and I are both a fan of with this sort of concept of deliberate practice and that kind of Thing, but I want to start out at the beginning. So just look we engage in a weird hobby Let's be honest about that, right? We we we take little plastic and resin and sometimes metal but I try to avoid that people and We put paint on them to make them look like real people or whatever we happen to be aiming for artistically interpreted real people How about that? Why how did you get into this? Well, what made you first want to pick up a brush and put put paint on a miniature It is such a bizarre thing to do, isn't it? Yeah, I actually started a very very long time ago I've always been really enthusiastic about Fantasy genre, you know, like I was reading a lot of books when I was younger and you know my favorite movie was when I was a kid Was Willow. I don't remember that movie. Do I remember Willow? The best movie I don't love Sorca. She kicked me in the face. Exactly. Yes So so there used to be a little shop and I'm pretty close to my house called Dragonskeak and I walked in there for the first time And I was just blown away. There was you know walls of of advanced Dungeons and Dragons second-edition books There was a Dungeons and Dragons arcade game and there was this little little shelf at the back that had a game called Warhammer So the first thing I overbought was a packet of flock static grass Okay, yep, and in a box of Empire Halberd is a little plastic guys that are all standing in the same thing like that And that's where I started a long time ago. So over over the years I got more and more involved and Started participating in tournaments actually worked for games workshop for three years here in Australia Ended up Meeting probably all of my all of my friends my best friends that I have now Through through this hobby and that culminated in a couple of European trips where I was participating in the It's called the ETC the European team championship for Warhammer Even though we're Australian not really European, but we managed to whizzle our way in That you were inducted in by being you know under the crown for so long, right like you just got yeah exactly So yeah, I went there for quite a few years and I then moved into War Machine and and sort of had similar Similar experiences where we went on you know trips to the world team championship and represented Australia and all this amazing stuff And the whole time through that experience It was always for me a hobby about Painting you know like as much as I love the game you as much as I got quite good at it It was always about painting for me, and I used to say that to everyone and they used to laugh, but you know that that was the way that I Relaxed the way that I you know use my spare time. I'd come home and I'd paint little toy soldiers Right. No, absolutely. This is I mean I think you cannot underestimate the value of This as therapy or as you just sort of it's a sort of Zen in the art of motorcycle maintenance type of thing, right? Well, it's it's very centering and focusing it does all these good things in your head. I know for me. I don't feel as I don't feel as calm or as happy if I don't sit down and paint for a couple hours a day, right? Like it's part of the routine spot on Yeah, so Probably probably about three three years ago now. I took a class with Meg Maples. It was a it was a Beginner's class and obviously I've been painting for a long long time, but I was mostly Gaming standard tabletop sort of standard stuff and and That really opened my eyes to what What I actually enjoyed about the hobby which was painting and and How much further I could push that so I took a step back from the gaming side of things and Decided that I'd focus my energy and efforts on On painting and that was sort of the start of the last three-year journey where I've really pushed myself to become a better display painter And and that's sort of where we are now nice. So here's my question. Do you still have any of those Empire Halberdeers? No, they are long gone. I'm afraid I actually went Had a pretty consistent rhythm of I would paint an army and then I would flip it Make a profit usually and buy a new army and then I'd paint another army and then I would flip it and that process would continue To the point where you know, I think I pretty much funded every army. I ever bought with the previous army, right? So, yeah, I actually have have no gaming models left I did have an AG Sigma army probably about 12 months ago that I painted which was a Nergal army, which was heaps of fun But I sold them and I haven't Got any gaming pieces left except for one gill ball team. Wow So nothing you didn't didn't keep any of it around just as a nostalgia piece No, I As much as I love nostalgia and I truly I you know, I love Thinking about the stuff that that used to fire my imagination. Sure. I'm also very practical That shit just sits in a cupboard So, you know, it's not it's not getting used. Why don't let someone else use it and get some value out of it So that's that's wonderfully emotionally healthy and adult of you something that I would aspire to But let's be honest. I think I have 13 Armies right now painted. So clearly I'm failing in every way, but that's all right. So right. So that's a good transition Along like I see how that's going when you were painting for the game you enjoyed it Did you find yourself? And so this is something I really want to dig in on because this is we're gonna get to this later When you sort of make that transition and it's funny too because Meg and looking at Meg's work I hadn't met her until January, but she was always such a huge inspiration for me in a lot of ways like fall I followed her blog very early on when I decided I wanted to You know sort of up my painting I was just so fascinated by the stuff that she did and the way she painted and I just I loved everything about it So very very kin there, but You painted a lot of armies Hmm over how many years was that that you were doing that gaming? Let's say of you know Warhammer and War machine I'm I'm 36 now and I started Really seriously gaming and probably about 2003 2004. Okay, so probably most of the 15 years. I would say I was I was painting armies Consistently, okay cool not playing anything now, right? You're you're you're just doing the painting side now And here's my question over that 15 years When you were just painting it was still happy you enjoyed it You weren't painting as I call it angrily right where somebody's just like god Gotta get this stupid thing painted because it's got to go to a table. You were enjoying yourself How much do you feel you advanced? In your actual painting over that time period Not at all. I mean that there was so there's two There's two sides of any skill which is which is the knowledge and the understanding part and then there's the technical part So technically my my ability to control where a brush goes and my understanding of you know The dilution of paints and all that sort of stuff that progressed because obviously that's just about repetition and practice in terms of my knowledge and my ability to Really understand what I was doing That never progressed at all. There was basically just I'm going to paint an army in these colors and I did there was there was no there was no in-depth understanding of why I was choosing specific colors or what was happening or anything like that so Skill wise some progression, but but knowledge wise no progression Yeah, and that's the reason I thought that would be your answer And I really wanted to drill it on that because to me It's one of those things I always try to hammer home with people right because they one of the common refrains is oh Well, I want to be better and then everybody just jumps in and says oh well Just paint more or just practice more and stuff like that And as well you can paint a lot and not get any better You can do something a lot and not improve at it right to me There's a difference between that deliberate practice and it's so fascinating because you had this flash point sort of moment Right where you said I'm going to stop just doing the same thing over and over again And I'm going to actually focus on taking those steps Yep insanity is Repeating the same task over and over and expecting different results. So When you make a conscious choice to say I would like to improve at something. I think that's the first step so Being able to recognize Where your weaknesses are and and look into those is is a is a key part of The stages of improving at any task. So Um without Taking that conscious step into I want to be better at this. How do I do that? You probably won't ever really? Um improve that much right right a hundred percent so You wrote an awesome uh blog post an awesome article recently on Sort of the method of improvement and how you actually focus yourself to to take those steps on your on your hobby journey I'll link that below because I think it is just absolutely essential reading for anybody who wants to To advance and is finding any challenge in it. Frankly people of most any skill level I think there's good lessons to extract there But like it let's let's but just to kind of give a summary here When you made that decision and you wanted to start improving How did you think about that? How did you attack it? What were the kind of broad strategies that you were pursuing there? Yeah, so I mean the probably the core tenant of Of that article is it talks about this the zone of learning. So Very briefly everyone that that's doing something a task that they're good at or familiar with Sits inside the comfort zone. Most people have heard of the term comfort zone before Um, but you don't learn anything when you're sitting in your comfort zone You're just repeating the same sort of processes and tasks So it's when you step outside of your comfort zone and do something that makes you feel a little bit uncomfortable and it feels a little bit weird That that you're actually your brain Starts forging new pathways and understanding new concepts and things that's called the zone of learning So There's a third zone, which is called the panic zone, which I'll talk about in a second But but fundamentally it's it's it's about challenging yourself. It's about constantly trying to do things that are Outside of what you've done before So that your brain can can start to grow and evolve and and and really improve The the the third zone is called the panic zone and that's if you step too far outside of your comfort zone You actually reach a point where? You're your natural instincts your brain Goes into a fight and flight response fight or flight response where You actually just obviously there's no life threatening danger when you're painting to a soldier's right So you're not going to run away from your painting But but you do your brain does sort of shut down and tries to think about you getting out of that situation And so what you'll often find is at a painting table You just be like This isn't happening how I wanted to happen and this isn't you know This isn't working this is stupid and you sort of throw your brushes down and disgust and walk away So if you if you reach too far and if you try too much, um, you don't actually learn anything at all and so that understanding how that works and understanding that You know, it's important to improve gradually over time Taking baby steps outside of your comfort zone to really reach that Improve level that you're aiming for and I think most people they want to they want a quick solution You know right in this very digital and modern age where you can click your fingers and have anything on your doorstep in in 24 hours To have to work at something to really have to Take you know step after step after step after day after day after day is is is a difficult concept for people to really embrace No, I like that very much And I think there's a couple things that that makes me think of the first is that You have to be okay with and admit to yourself that when you step out of your comfort zone And you get into that that area where you can learn something That also means you have an increased chance of failure and you have to accept that like You will be failing when you try this stuff sometimes and that's okay Right, like you will not succeed on all of this. That's why you step out That's the comfort zone means you succeed basically 99.9 of time, right? That's where we all live I normally don't fail making myself a sandwich. I'm pretty comfortable with that task And I'm just suddenly throw a meat and cheese up in the air and I'm I can nail that task at least 99 out of 100 times at least when was the last time you made a gourmet sandwich where you had to you know, make a special sauce and Toast the bread and maybe make the bread from scratch. I bet you've never done that Exactly that would be stepping outside But then there could be a panic zone if I was going to do like the the gastro whatever stuff where you know You're the gastro science where I would be trying to do like some reduction of something in my ham Is just a the gas ham that I've got a you breathe in the bubbles of ham like what no now I'm panicked, right? Exactly So yeah It's a good point But you have to accept that increased chance of failure and be okay with it and and learn from it And then go back to it again and what by by repeatedly failing learning understanding pushing You're then slowly expanding I think out what becomes comfortable to you, right? definitely the the thing about mistakes and and it's it's a very Fundamental mindset shift that you have to make is it mistakes are the best thing that can ever happen to you because without You know really making a mistake. You don't get an opportunity to improve it actually You know, it highlights an area where you've got opportunity we It's very very hard to not get to spawned an upset frustrated at yourself when you do make a mistake But when you can make that mindset shift and just embrace it That that's probably when you'll start to see you your greatest progression in any task is is just Looking forward to making a mistake so that you can learn something from it, right? Yeah, a hundred percent the other thing that Kind of occurs to me with stepping outside there and being in the panic zone is how do you I want to I want to see how you you think about this kind of a situation A lot of times what I see because we live in a in this This digital world that is both a blessing and a curse where we're all We all get to see what everybody does and paints every day all the time, right? And so I see a lot of newer painters will often come in And they'll they'll be starting out and they're you know, they're doing okay They're doing whatever they're doing how they came into the hobby And then they'll be like well, this is my eighth miniature And I went ahead and I want to learn non-metallic metal and put some osl on it and do this thing and I'm You can pick any 20 high level Sort of applications of paint you can think of I always hate the word technique because they're not a technique just you know Applications of of the environment of interpretation of whatever And then they just jump all into it and don't have sort of the fundaments Right and it ends up being a very frustrating experience for them, right? Yep No, I respect I find myself in a position where I'm like well I want to encourage that that fearlessness like I love that you're so fearless that you wanted to try All of these things that's great, right that you're new and yet you weren't scared of this I don't want you to I don't want to ever make people afraid At the same time I might I want to say that being said Slow down, right like you went straight from like tinkering in your basement assembling A little rc car To like going out to the backyard and trying to assemble a real rocket ship that's going to take you to the moon Like there are probably some steps in between there We need to understand of the fundaments of mechanical engineering, right? So so how do you think about stuff like that? Yeah, it it's basically everyone has has a mountain decline if they want to reach the top of A field or a task or whatever and There's no quick way to reach the top of that mountain That that's that's what it is in a nutshell If you if you you know look up at the mountain and you go my goal is to reach the top and that's what I'm going to do That's absolutely great. It's awesome to have aspirations. It's awesome to want to be able to do nmm osl all that sort of stuff But but the hard part is recognizing that to get to the top is a climb is an arduous journey of of You know stumbling and falling as you reach a Tricky scree a bit of slope where it's hard to climb and I think that's What people get wrong they see the top of the mountain, but they don't see the journey that takes them to get there so As you said, it's we want to encourage people who are reaching For the top of the mountain and trying to do things and trying to better themselves and that's absolutely fantastic It's about embracing the mistakes if you try that and you have a you know a really bad experience and it doesn't come out at all how you wanted If you don't take anything from that which is probably a likely outcome right because it is a panic zone experience That there's going to be no progression you're going to reach that point where You know every time you try to do something like that you fail And it's just going to demoralize you and you're not going to have the experience to understand how you get how you get yourself out of that so whilst I encourage people to have goals understand that You need to work To be able to reach those goals And and when you should reevaluate your goals Your long-term goal might be to be able to paint like one of the best painters in the world But that's just not going to happen in a short period of time. Um, it has to happen over months maybe years of of grinding understanding what you need to know Working at what you need to you know do and then eventually if you are willing to sacrifice enough Time and effort then you'll get there. So But yeah, it's it's it's a difficult Mindset to have you know, and it's probably If there's ever an appropriate use of the word talent it probably is that it's a talent to be able to Just really stick to something and work hard at it. Um When we're so conditioned now to have things whenever you want Yeah, I Couldn't agree more like people often ask me what's the most sort of essential thing I can learn if I want to be a better painter or just lay painter or a competition painter or whatever And my answer is always endurance Right because you have to be able to keep painting and keep painting and keep working on things and failing at things And be willing to still try and push and all of that It's there's a there's a huge amount of endurance in that like if you're going to sit down and spend That number of hours on a piece if you're going to withstand You know trying something new and screwing it up and having to redo the whole thing or you know Some big portion of the thing because it just didn't come out right and that's just the way it is You know, that's like when it's competition you go and you take it to that point because that's what you need to do Um And and being able to look and figure out where your work is going wrong and then putting in more work Um, I think if there was a when you were working on your your elements piece that we're going to look at later Uh, there was a point that you were sharing as I was sort of following along on on the socials by the way All the trend socials will be down below so you can follow him See all this the mini we have up on the screen right now is one you kind of finished recently It's the big silver armored knight with a sword. I don't remember where he's from but limbo miniatures His name is god fray. It's a pretty cool model. There you go. There you go Uh, so this is up on this is I have him up from your putty and paint picture upload But as I was following the the process or the progress I should say with your your elements piece There was a point you came to with I think earth and we'll look at the painting piece later But where you just weren't happy With sort of the color balance and the way she was working out right and the tones weren't and weren't earthy enough As it were for her place in the overall scene So you had to go in and apply a lot more work and you slowly adjusted the things until it balanced out I think that's the the key right being able to look at that Set it let's go go. I'm not just painting to be done I'm painting to achieve something. There's a difference there, right? Yeah So the the article sort of touches on this a lot more. So, um, I'll try not to happen it too much but yeah, there's a thing called the four stages of competence and and one of those stages uh is Unconscious incompetence and that's usually the stage most people start at and it's you basically at a point where you don't know What's wrong? You don't even know something is wrong so One of the reasons I use social media a lot and post a lot of work in progress photos is It's important to get feedback And it's important to be able to recognize when something's not working and sometimes it takes an external source To really pinpoint that um for yourself because you're spending so much time very very focused and dialed into You know the the painting that you don't see the picture, so um, you know that that project was a really A big big one for me in terms of how how I approach painting and um, you know, because it was probably the longest project I've I've ever completed. Uh, there was a lot of moments where I had to put it down and go away and do something else and uh having a feedback loop where I could get You know really good constructive negative feedback about what was working and what wasn't working allowed me to um Go back in and make changes that I felt are necessary. So it's um Being able to to change and embrace When something's not working is is difficult, particularly if you've put many many hours of effort into it already but uh, the the core tenant that I come back to is that uh, I paint because I enjoy painting and It's just a chance to paint some more That's okay absolutely So right now Uh, you're working. You're you're a you're a paint every day person, correct? Like as much as possible. I mean obviously life sometimes happens, but if you can you try to sit down and paint every day Pretty much. Yeah, usually about three hours a day. I paint. Um, I don't have kids Uh, my girlfriend and I live in separate houses, which is awesome So I can I can just come come home and paint whenever I want So yeah, usually about three hours a day. Um, I'm actually having a break at the moment because of The last three months has been very intense for me in iran crystal dragon. I came back from from monti from smc I've had craft world studio staying with me and organizing their classes and Did the elements piece and and so, you know, right now I'm just like I need to have a bit of a break from from painting and and that's totally okay. Um When when I feel the passion and enthusiasm come back and actually I was already I got up this morning I was looking at my painting desk going oh Can't do a bit of painting now, but um, you know when it comes back naturally and I feel enthusiastic I'll get back in and do it. So that If if you're ever gonna Truly truly improve you need to love it. You need to love the effect that you're painting and enjoy it because that's That's the only way you can you can sit there and grind right and get that get that experience. Yep absolutely, uh So do you What's your what's your background of choice when you're when you're painting do you sit there in silence? Do you do some podcasts? Do you have music on what you know, what what sets the tone? Uh, it's that's a good question. I have a number of things. So If there's uh, if there's a particular sport on uh that I like I have a tv in my painting room So I'll put a little I'll put some cricket on or some footy, which is something I can listen to and Not really have to participate in be active in or TV shows that I've watched many times, you know, like buffy or the office or You know the game of thrones something I've watched many many times and I can just have it on in the background Um, but sometimes I do listen to podcasts or audiobooks Um, I tend to listen to audiobooks uh all day because I do a lot of driving and my job So I've usually got an audiobook on and sometimes I'll be writing a really exciting bits I'll come home and want to keep listening and uh paint while I'm listening to the the story progress But uh, I'm not really a big music person. I don't normally listen to music. So It's different a lot of people I think Yeah, fair enough answer I mean, you're a fan of buffy So you're good here like this clearly as we respect one of the greatest television shows of all time If not the greatest Yeah, it's it's in that it would be in the top three Like there's a couple others that that might get in there and we could have it We could have a reasonable discussion amongst good faith people about whether it's like that or maybe, you know Next generation or something like that like there's there's others in that uvra, but certainly it's the top so So so you where you're fitting in here. You're you're right. You're in the right place One of my people I'm actually watching. I'm actually the reason why that I said that is I'm watching it right now I'm at season four. It's it's very funny to watch it coming back from you know, I've watched it probably in about two years The number of 90s references in the show. It's just Crazy Yeah, it's funny how long they don't have cell phones in that show and then how different they have to structure it When they get cell phones in like season six, I think is the first time you see a cell phone pop up. Yeah Landlines man people calling people on landlines. You remember when that was the thing constantly constantly in that show. Yes There's a moment in like season Yeah, I believe it's season five where uh, where spike call this is just where this is going now I guess where spike calls Buffy from a pay phone to her And I'm like what an absolutely, you know, just incomprehensible thing That happened right now. Yeah, absolutely funny how fast the world changed there. Yes. Uh, all right so, uh at any rate, uh, okay, so Is there anything that you when you're looking around and you're getting a piece you talked about, you know Getting that fire back What's inspiring you now like what do you look at in the world? What happens? What inspires you to take a piece because Doing the pieces you do it seems like every one of them has something You're trying to achieve or something that you wanted to say with them They are You know, absolutely artistic interpretations of these miniatures. So where are you drawing your inspiration from now? What makes you look at a piece and go? Yeah, I definitely want to do that If I could probably Pinpoint one thing it would be other artists in the miniature field. Um, you know, I have a great appreciation for For classical art and when I was in Europe, you know, we did a lot of museums and galleries and that sort of stuff And I took a few photos for reference pieces. But but the one thing that really inspires me is Is the sculptors and the artists that are out there in this community and you know, some of them are just just mind blowing Those people make me want to be better. Yep Um And so I do try to take a very considered approach to to every piece that I paint. I want to have a specific Thing that that I that I learn or that I'm practicing when I when I do a piece and um, you know for for godfrey here Which is on the screen. He was a Uh a considered Cold non-metallic metal Approach so I have a tendency to do very warm Metals when I do non-metallic metal, I find that easier So I wanted to try something very cold and have him in a cold atmosphere and see if I could pull that off And and to be honest, there's a few aspects of it that I'm not really happy with Uh, but but I'm also a big believer in When you when you've finished something or when you've reached a point where you go I'm I'm done with this piece You don't need to keep pushing yourself And and hating it, you know Like you can have a piece that you just put aside and say I've learned what I wanted to learn from that and I'm going to take my learnings into the next piece I don't need to really keep pushing that and that's probably one of the reasons why I'll never be one of the absolute worlds of S painters because You know, I think that there's an element of those guys just keep pushing and pushing and pushing until something is in their minds perfect and and uh, there was a hashtag that came out a few months ago, which was uh, Finished not perfect. Uh, which I was like, yeah, I'm all about that. I'm all about the experience Uh, instead of the result Gotcha. Oh, that makes perfect sense Um, we'll we'll talk more when we do the lightning round questions at the end We'll we'll we'll dig into a little bit of that a little more Uh, all right. Cool. Well, great So let's how about we take a look at some of your work. I think it's time. Let's break in we're gonna This is fun. I don't think we've ever done it exactly like this before but you had such a clear Journey you went on since we had that since you had that that point Uh, you know because you had been painting throughout and then all of a sudden you boom This is we're gonna we're gonna focus on the painting. So this is great. So we're gonna go through this in kind of I think Order in chronological order and we'll be able to actually track it And and I just love you to kind of share what you thought about the pieces at the time What you think about them now going back How you work on it the tools how you work that kind of stuff just you know talk about the pieces so Definitely easy peasy. All right. Let's uh, let's begin then we'll bring this up We're gonna start with I think this one is the Atlantean king. So this is the bust of our our uh Our underwater sea king and in sort of a bluish turquoise armor. Yes So this uh piece so so when I look back and we talked about earlier, I took a class with meg and that was a real point where I um Uh Decided and pushed into display painting. So this was um the first piece where I really think I had a considered Uh learned approach to what I was doing I actually decided that I didn't want to use any white or black on this model So there is no black or white anywhere on this model um I was the first time I've done that. Uh, I wanted to see if I could still create enough contrast and It was it was a great experience. I really enjoyed it This was the first year that I went to crystal dragon with display pieces and this piece I was told by meg later was actually in in Discussion for for the judge's choice for the best in show That that year which was a really exciting and and motivating experience, but um, yeah, so the the the model itself is actually uh a cert from scale 75 and he's um, actually a fire king. So I also Went pretty much opposite Sure, why not and made him a water king. Yeah, so Yeah, the the blue is probably a trademark color of mine I tend to do a lot of turquoise colors and it's one of my favorite colors to paint with I really like that that color and the The interesting thing looking back at it now, you know, my favorite thing to paint is is skin tones And I think that's probably the strongest part of the model is the skin tones The blue is uh is lacking a lot of contrast Uh, the the metallics are pretty amateurish when I look back at them now, but the the skin tone I think is is very convincing. So Uh, it was fun. It was a fun fun model to paint and I'll probably say that about all five of the pieces We're gonna show but um, yeah, I really uh think that's that's sort of the starting point of where I was at when I when I started this this journey um So it's good good good one to show I think No, I I like this piece a lot. I remember you sharing this back when you did like I remember seeing this uh around So I it's funny that I was unconsciously going on this whole journey with you uh, and I I really liked this piece and I agree because skin tones are absolutely one of my favorite things to paint There's so much fun like because you can work Basically any color you want into it and make it, you know be interesting as a skin tone There's just some sort of the the nature of how it progresses It's it's fun to play with colors of skin tone with shades To work in age and as you did here one of the things I really like is he feels Uh older he feels a bit tired like the scar. I like the scarring on the over the eye on the face It's it's very pronounced, but I like it's still being that bright. I think it's it's it's interesting Like it's a nice visual little cue that draws your eye up to the face Right that extra little scar is doing a lot of work to do that As is the the beard coloration you did by by sort of graying out the Center mustache and center of his his beard. It does a lot to draw attention up You also framed to the top of the face with the same sort of gray white So interesting little tricks to to surround the face and in this sort of visual triangle that forces focuses you in on it Hmm Yeah, the the that's probably Interesting looking back at this for me now because that that was probably an unconscious thing that I did But when I look at it now As you just said that there is a lot of things that that are helping to draw your eye to the face and You know the the value of the face is significantly higher than anything else on the piece Which is which is a good thing Um, but there is a lot of color and and and life in the skin. Whereas the rest of it is very cold and Neutral so again, that's sort of something that was probably unconscious at the time But but now would be something I would consider and and and push intentionally into it so Yeah, absolutely. All right. So this is where we begin our journey. So next up we have This is and I've seen lots people paint this bust because it is so fun. This is our old Uh shaman wizard guy is our friend of the animals He reminds me of like radigast the brown basically, right because he has little birds and squirrels and such with him So, yeah, let's talk about this guy Yes, this is a Cormac the druid from black chrome miniatures and the reason why I chose this one is because it's a good Uh transition from the previous one. I think you know similar sort of facial features similar sort of um You know conceptually very similar. He's got one color underneath and in his face but I think you can see there's an immediate improvement in terms of How much depth they put into the skin tone? Um, how much more considered I was in my approach with color choices, you know, if you see the orange down the bottom there There's actually blue, you know, um carried into the orange, which is a which is a contrasting color There's there's a lot more Focus around the face with that white being far more pronounced and much more high contrast um lot more depth and and nuance in the skin tone And some little little interesting pops of different colors around the piece. So It's it's a cool progression from the first one to this one without still really It's probably a few things I would do differently there one of my biggest weaknesses. I think as a painter as I don't really take the The real Freehand fine details, you know the stuff that really elevates a piece You know, like this guy would be cool to have some patterns on his on his little Orange cloak there. I think that would have really improved the piece some sort of patterning on the cloak Yeah, I mean you can definitely see the progression You mentioned a lot of the elements that I was absolutely going to call out Right away as well, but I also I just I really want to drive one's attention to the the depth of the skin tone Here and the difference in even the the colors that you're using So just to flip back to the king real quick when we look at this and we see the color tones there in the face And then we look at our druid friend here You the first thing that strikes me is This figure is also older But you've actually grayed the skin somewhat There's a lot more green infusion into it, right, especially if people look under the arm that's near Sort of his wood staff and here under like in in our in our shadow colors If the skin has a lot of reds up on top which around his knuckles and the top of his hand and his nose You used a lot of these complementary greens throughout sort of underneath his cheeks and the in the shallow cheek shadows Under the shadows of the arm and stuff like that And that's interesting for multiple reasons one because it's a good compliment to sort of the pinky reddish ready tones of his skin Which is then a nice compliment to the grayer tones of the rest of the skin It's so much less intense But it's also great for a druid because everything in here you worked a lot to balance out the naturalistic tones with that so there's a lot of To me this feels very druidy because the colors all feel very very natural in that sense, right? Yeah, so I think that's a really good ad I definitely smashed a lot of color into the skin and I think this that one of the reasons I love this figure is because the skin is so interesting. It's a sculptor Lucas Pino Who's my favorite sculptor in the whole world. He's just unbelievable He just does these incredibly expressive faces and hands his hands Hands are just amazing. So I I probably have a tendency to over contrast in skin tones and I think if you look at the cheekbones now I probably wouldn't go quite as deep in that shadow now Um But but yeah, I really love how much how much color and richness there is in the skin And and the very natural tones that the whole piece has that it's all sort of a lot more harmonious than the last piece Which I think is again that part of that progression and understanding How colors interact and bounce off each other and always tied together. So yeah No, it's great And somebody asked a question in the chat so that that I think is a good sort of moment here to talk about a theory Because they asked uh, what sorts of blues did you use for this and basically there? I think their question was related to like which brands and and how do you think about paint? Uh brands when you paint Yeah, actually, so I have taught a little class and I talk about uh paints in my class and and pretty much I just I just pick colors that I like I don't have a specific range that I sort of go for I just I like specific colors and so The blues tend to be mostly Vallejo model color blues. I don't really remember the specific color in this one. Um but uh I take all of the different paint ranges and pick out colors that I like from pretty much every paint range out there And although you have then varying finishes, you know satin and matte finishes and you know, sometimes even glossier finishes Um the way that I control that is I actually do a lot of varnishing Yeah, I use use an airbrush. So I use the ak interactive ultramap varnish through the airbrush. Absolutely multiple times. Yes. Yes And that that lets you control all of the varying sort of finishes and reflective surfaces to make them more consistent Which means it doesn't really matter what brand you use because they're all gonna have the same sort of finish at the end So I just pick colors that I like is the answer to that question No, I like that and I'm a big fan of varnishing throughout as well I mean most pieces I work on I would bet I varnish them, you know, 10 or 12 times over the life of the project Right, depending on what's going on because it is so easy the ak and I'm a huge fan of the ak interactive ultramap varnish Unbelievable. It's so effective. It does exactly what it says on the tin. Like it's not joking It's unbelievable I wonder how many other painters do that because I speak to Dave Colwell a lot as I've said and he doesn't varnish at all um so Yeah, I wonder I don't know It would be something I'd be interested in because I I find it's just a way that I have to matte things out during the process So I can actually then hold it under a bunch of different lighting and make sure they're looking like how I think it looks, right? Yeah, and it's sort of the reflectiveness of colors will often trick your eyes You know, sometimes you'll you'll do this transition and you'll be like, yeah, that's friggin awesome And then you'll you'll do the matte varnish and you look at it and you'll go Actually the glossy, you know switch was making the light reflect off the color and make it look stronger And actually it doesn't look that good Important process. Absolutely. I would be curious about that as well It's something I'll have to make sure I'm asking from now on whenever I talk to people see what they uh, What their process is All right, so we leave our our friendly druid behind and we come to this girl I don't don't know. I don't remember what miniature this is, but this is the girl leaping up in the air with She has many many swords She does two swords in her hands one under her foot. She's all the swords she's got And killing obviously a demon Charlotte from limbo miniatures is her name. Um, she The limbo miniatures range is all pretty much sculpted by charles ages who does some unbelievable sculpts really incredible dynamic fascinating sculpts, um And the the limbo miniatures one of the guys involved in the company is based in australia. So Yeah, he's he's a cool dude. His name is vincent. Uh, so, yeah, I get more already I've painted quite a few of the limbo miniatures pieces mostly just you know because I like supporting Um, you know local companies and and and the models are super cool. So Um, yeah, this one was was probably uh, it's interesting I picked this one because one of my favorite things I've done Um for for one, but also that there was a very clear Idea around this and it was I wanted to practice Uh, the lighting from underneath and an osl from from from underneath with the intent to Um do that on a future project, which you'll see next Um, so this was a conscious practice choice around I want to understand how this works and and really try Um, you know developing my skill set in this in this technique in this this process So that um when I do it on my piece that I want to take overseas to international competitions I've got a little a little bit of you know understanding of how it should all work. So um Yeah, I pretty much had a very clear idea of of the core concept at the start with with the demon head being radiating heat and the rest of the colors uh My approach to things is usually very freeform. So I start Usually with with with an idea in mind But I don't have any real like I don't sit there and plan out my colors I'll plan out what I'm going to do and and that's one of the other reasons why you tend to see a lot of Changes midway through projects because I go. Yeah, that's not really working. I need to change that So, you know, the the rest of the colors on the model. I didn't really have any idea I think I initially planned for um the cloak to be to be a different color, but um, I ended up going with blue So, uh, yeah, I was really happy with the swords for whatever reason. I felt like they came out super cool Um, I like the cloak her skin tones really interesting But the the gold was a it was a bit of a weak point. I felt um, and her hair's got this really uh Cartoon-y feeling which is probably okay for that for the rest of the piece Since a lot of my stuff has that feeling anyway, but it doesn't I don't think the hair is quite right When I look back at it now, so gotcha It is a very stark transition on the hair Like it's going from a very shock of of almost pure yellow all the way into like that deep red, right? Yeah, yeah Too much contrast and and and are very unnatural sort of looking here But but yeah, the the skin tone and the swords are cool and the I think the the the heat effect Uh works without being perfect. So No, I think it's great I I really do I one of the things I'm actually a biggest fan of on this is the skin tone you picked Because it's such a wonderful, uh, purple blue skin tone Uh, which I think works nice as this sort of counter where you're you're transitioning from this warm color up into a It's a very cold lit from above, right? Yeah, you maintained that consistent Lighting schema throughout there even the swords the non metallic on them, which I agree They do look very cool But they they also feel very cold because you can obviously play in all sorts of Colors of blue steel you can you can warm that up if you're if you're inclined to right But you kept all of that Very cold. I I think it came out nice Um, so yeah, this is great. So so here what I want to just dive into real quick is Help us through Your process of how this because this is a big scale mini right? She's 75. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, she's about 120 mil from top to bottom because of how tall, you know that she's sitting up quite high So it's quite big. Yeah, right. So she's big so walk us through You know, you said you kind of freeform it just give me like a kind of high level How are you attacking a piece like this? Are you starting broad? Are you sketching in colors and then refining and what are you doing to do that? Like how are you, you know, sort of going down that road? Yeah, uh, if you if you ever interested in seeing my process evolve as it goes pretty much my instagram and twitter I post a lot of work in progress shots. So you'll be able to see this but but Fundamentally, I work on a sketch in refine sort of model So I sketch in colors and I and I'm very rough with where those colors go And I just try to build up the concept in my mind and then I will work More softness and smoothness in the transitions and refine all of those sort of rough colors, but I do I do tend to I do tend to break away from that when I'm excited about painting something I was actually really excited about painting a skin tone I thought the skin was really nicely sculpted and really interesting shapes So I think I did the whole skin tone first and I'd be out a quarter of the way through that I I started working in the The under lighting on the skin So it looked a little bit weird at the time because you had just the skin with this under lighting And then nothing else It didn't really look right. Um, and then I think I went into the the The skull Down the bottom and then started working the fabric and the fabric was the longest part of the process and and the trickiest to get right because the There's a lot of folds and you needed the light to hit the folds correctly and You know understanding how that all needed to work was was really challenging and fun and and a cool experience, but Yeah, generally, it's it's you know Similar to most people I start with the skin tone and you know, then work my way up through, you know I'm dressing the model as I go through But I do tend to block in everything first And really get a get a a rough idea of what the piece is going to look like Do you find are you now you're uh like myself? I know you've integrated the airbrush pretty fully into your process Do you find yourself to be a back and forth type of person? That is to say do you work some with a brush? Then you do some work with an airbrush then you're back to a brush then your airbrush again Like is it a fully integrated part of your process or do you find that you you know Do it more upfront more at the end because there's a lot of different styles out there of how people treat that tool I love love the airbrush. Uh, I've started trying to force myself to to use it at different stages more Um, probably around this this period of time It was a it was a base coating tool and and maybe sort of a bit of cheating around osl to you know Try and get a bit of a a guide as to where the lights can fall by using the the angle of the airbrush But but now I'm really using it a lot more throughout the process and very much back and forth You know using it to smooth transitions add add nuance to to colors and shadows and Really really integrating it a lot more which Again is a skill like anything else using an airbrush takes practice and you know It probably had I tried to do this 18 months ago I wouldn't have been able to use it the way I am now, but this piece didn't have a lot of airbrushing I think I base coated the skin tone and and used it for the for the red sort of lighting underneath and that was about it Gotcha All right, so then next up I think we have probably one of the pieces you were you were working at osl for Uh, so this is our two busts. This is uh, I don't remember the two busts But I love both of them. These are two absolutely incredible busts. I've seen lots of versions of but I've never This is such a wonderful interpretation. This is one of my favorite pieces you've ever done because It is a great integration of these two pieces where you saw two distinct busts and said, oh, hold on There's a broader story. We can tell here by combining them together So I love this it also integrates the plinth in a really fun way that I like Yeah, yeah, this this is uh, probably the first real A conscious diversion from from my normal process, which was I I said to myself. I want to I want to take Um a piece to monti and to scale model challenge that that i'm really genuinely proud of I want to really force myself to to push I want to plan something conceptually and understand what i'm doing before I start And I really, you know, want to try and put something out there that that's the best piece I've done and Um, so there there was a few Models I did in preparation for this. I painted a little egyptian girl who had see through skin a see through uh fabric So you could see her skin I did charlotte which had the under lighting and I did a few pieces with a non-human skin tone Um, yeah, the models are from kaorutic art. Uh, the angel is called amitriel And uh, the demon is called idrisil. I think, uh The yeah, they're two separate pieces. Um, two separate busts are sold separately. It's not it not a combined piece. So but when I saw um The angel which which I think is one of the most phenomenal models that's been released in the last, you know, a few years and Uh again one of those models that inspired me to want to paint something great Um, she just she looked she's incredibly sad. She's got this incredibly sad expression on her face and when you Uh, when you look at it, I just sort of started on what why she's sad and obviously the model itself is actually an angel She's got her wings cut off. She's got her hands bound behind her in this in this uh chained up A thing and so I started questioning who's chained her up and and and where where is she and and so the the idea Is sprung out of that which which is that she's been obviously captured and tortured by This demon who's who's taking her down into the pits of hell So the piece is called Into the Depths. It's just a pretty wanky name, but It's art mate. You gotta have a cool name. Yeah, come on over. Yeah um And yeah, so I spent a bit of time actually trying to find A piece that would work and and I actually didn't pick this one initially I picked another one which is a sculpt um by romaine vanden bogeert Uh, which was a another demon is a big fat guy and I I couldn't find uh the model anywhere to buy So I was I was gutted and I had to had to start again and and then I went back to kawaruti Can I and I saw that one and I started thinking about it more and and and you know the snakes there Which which creates this sort of adam and eve style feeling You know very much about the the angel and the demon And I looked at the sort of the angle that he was he was standing and I didn't think it fitted perfectly but uh, but When I found the right plinth and I had the angles right, you know I felt like it really told an interesting story and she's sort of turning away from him um, and and he's uh He he's just got this really sadistic smile on his face because he knows what he's gonna gonna do to her next so Uh, yeah, the story sort of was what drove all of my choices around, um, you know the colors and the concepts and um It was uh, yeah, I think in terms of of the process it it all came together very quickly that there was only one Uh step where I made a big fundamental change During the process which was I sculpted eyes On the demon Yeah, he has big hollowed out sockets the the model and I sculpted eyes on there Um eyes are very important I think to to be able to see the model the life in the model and He had these big sockets and I couldn't really couldn't really visualize um His expression and and understand what he was feeling so I had I felt like I needed eyes nice No, I love this it's it's One it's a great example of the integration of the plinth into the broader piece, right? So where did you like this looks like an old burnt piece of wood? Where where did you get your old burnt piece of wood from that? That is exactly what it is. Yeah, I buy plinths from a couple of guys Both Australians there's one in uh in brisbane called jim's bases and he does really beautiful Um immaculately polished finished busts uh plinths And then there's another guy called taren studio who lives in rural new south wales and and he comes out with these very interesting rough Ragged plinths that that are just pieces of old wood. I think it was a fence post actually. Oh, that's awesome Yeah, uh, but but he takes them and he then actually um, you know Polishes and and and sands off certain edges. So if you have a look at the back of it It's got a really nice finish on on the two back sides, but the front's got this really jagged you know bit hanging off and um I just I was looking for an interesting plinth for this idea and when I put her Hanging out and if you it's not a great angle to see but she's actually hanging out, you know off into nothing Listen, it just further reinforces her fragility and You know vulnerability which I think is um is really cool. Yeah, I was I was super happy with that play Yeah, and the the alignment of it worked out so well here because by not only just offsetting her In the way that she is there, but also by the difference in verticality like there's a power Uh, there's a power structure here that you're communicating by having him above her So it's clearly he's in the position of power By bringing her down it also puts the snake right at her ear level So we have the classic like whispering of the the tempter into the ear very biblical right by having that there So it just it it really works in this incredibly organic way that's communicating a lot of Subtle things that you don't you as the as the viewer might not even consciously think about But if they were say on the same level, it just you would you would feel the dissonance, right? It wouldn't be in the same way Yeah No, that there's there's a lot of stuff that you know as I was putting it together I actually twisted the the angels You know angle around slightly to really you know reinforce the the feeling and and the snake whispering into ear and all that sort of stuff It it I'm honestly, I'm really proud of it. I think it's probably my best piece I've done and I was lucky enough to win a silver at scale model challenge in the master's category and a bronze in And want to in the master's category. So pretty chuffed with that Absolutely. Well well earned for sure. And you know, those are those are two Very very very amazing and difficult competitions. So that is An incredible amazing accomplishment. No doubt. Here's my final question for it. Something I'm always fascinated by Especially with under lighting with orange. What are you using for your oranges here? What oranges do you like for this? So I use a lot of model air colors Um, and and because I find that when I'm doing that sketch I want to pump a lot of contrast in so I go up to a very high You know white Value sort of color and then I use the model air to glaze over the top of them I find the model air colors have a very rich Uh pigment rich rich concentration of pigment. Um, so this is actually vallejo model air fluorescent red is the name of the color And that's mixed in with a little bit of fluorescent yellow at the very highest points Yep And the the rest of it is mixed in with a little bit of scale 75 and tari's red Which is a very powerful Saturated red color. So it's basically those three colors mixed together in varying Stages nice. Yeah, I'm always fascinated by the colors people use to get heat and and the orange because there's so many out there to choose from I know there's a lot of people who are fans of the various like actual fluorescence That are out and about so I'm just I'm always interested in what people use for stuff like that color because I think it's neat How much you can use different types of those bright paints like that to get cool effects. So absolutely All right And then finally We come to uh, just an absolutely stunning piece So again when you're you're very much apparently this is your your let's combine busts together to tell a narrative Phase I think this is this is your blueprint here for for you And it's interesting. I found myself doing that a lot for some reason and I think it's it's uh, it's not done a lot by others I really when I see a bust I sort of want to I want to dive into where that where that bust is and you know What what's the situation around it and and you know, I think a lot of people try to tell that story with their painting But for some reason I've I've found myself wanting to tell it with with a with a background and and you know with other models So it's definitely an interesting diversion from a lot of other people at the moment Absolutely, and now hey the advantage is if somebody else does this now now we're all contractually obligated to say Uh, oh, yeah, it's the it's that's the big deno style right there of combining the busts. Yeah That's the advantage of a first mover thing there. So there's the four elements, right? Uh, so so walk us through this one because I Obviously we've got our air earth fire and water. I did that in the completely wrong order that they're organized Can't help myself. That's how I say them Yeah, uh alphabetically Captain planet for me. Yeah, there you go Yeah, wind, water, heart, go planet. Um So this one's interesting. So uh Again, it's a very considered approach with this piece and it's contrary to what I normally do And the reason for that is I bought all four of these busts at scale model challenge Which is in the middle of october Um, and that's a fantastic event really worthwhile visiting if you get a chance and Uh, I saw the busts be advertised before the event and I made them all put aside a copy for me So I rushed in there and bought them, you know first first up and I was just super buzzed But unfortunately when when you travel to scale model challenge from australia, um It it tends to be as a part of a longer holiday So I was actually on holiday for five weeks in europe and scale model challenge was at the start of that holiday And monti was the end. So I had these these four busts sitting in my suitcase for five weeks so All I wanted to do was get home and paint them the whole time as much as it was great traveling through europe and stuff I was just like me. I can't wait to paint these busts so I started thinking about the four busts and and and given that uh, I was really chuffed with how The angel and demon come out. I sort of was Trying to come up with a concept that would work for the four busts on one piece, which is very ambitious. Um And you know, I was thinking about uh, how I would structure them and their placement And so there's a very considered approach to to the placement of all four of these models You know the highest is obviously air because it's the lightest of the elements and then next Highest is fire because it's sort of the next highest and then earth and then water down the bottom So there's sort of a weightiness to to that as well as um having the two sort of cold Uh elements, which is air and water on on the left side and then two warm elements Which is fire and earth on the right side and then I also Uh created a color wheel Uh within the the the the concept. So um, you actually step through green yellow orange red Up to purple and then then back down through the blues and then back to green so that there's actually a a full cycle of the color wheel in in there and That was all stuff that I planned whilst I was basically traveling around europe You know, I had I had this whole idea Together in my head from the start and so When I came home to start painting him I was absolutely just Itching to get at them. Um The base came together remarkably quickly You know in a matter of about a day day and a half I had the design and the location of all the models Set out very easily What are you building your bases out of like what are the tools and stuff you're using? Yes, the the fire model actually comes with that column that she's sort of resting on And that's the anchor point that I used actually to create the rest of the base. So I anchored that down into the earth Um, and then obviously I wanted to have a little waterfall coming down into the water from the earth So that sort of then created that those three elements and then I used railway cork railway modeling cork for the the column of rock on the on the left side and assorted other bits to to create the rest of it, you know plants and bits from its box. So Hmm But the painting the painting was it was it was a journey. That was a real challenge. Um I initially decided wanted to start with the same basic skin tone But the the the real challenge with a piece like this that I found is You want to have every element feel like its own unique element, but at the same time I use the term element there as meaning an individual component not necessarily element right in this context, but Feel separate, but at the same time it needs to have a real sense of harmony to it And so I thought the way that I would approach that is start with the same basic skin tone for all four of the models So they would feel sort of consistent and then and then use other colors and tie things together and Very quickly. I realized that that wasn't working After painting two and a half of the models so Uh, I I ended up changing That concept and that's when when earth became the she-hulk and and water started getting some some blue and and mermaid tones and and air became purple. So It was it was about five five and a half weeks of of painting for all of that, which is the longest project I think I've ever I've ever worked on. Um There's a lot of there's a lot of like Little details in there that sort of gets swallowed up by the whole But you know, each of the girls has a specific tattoo that relates to their element, you know, earth's got vines Fire's got a sun water's got a symbol the symbol for Aquarius On her arm and I can't remember what what I did for air. I think it was a cloud or something on her shoulder So there's there's lots of lots of little details like that that I tried to tie in there, but Um, it's a full on piece Yeah, no no no doubt it is That's the that is the most generous conservative way you could describe this this thing. Yes, it is a full on piece That is absolutely accurate Uh, somebody asked what was the most challenging? Uh, the question was what was the most challenging color But was but I think I want to reframe that and say was one of the four elements the most challenging to you Like which because the coloration you're trying to capture was any one more difficult than the others To catch the nuance of it. I had the most difficulty with air Um, but I do think that may have been because it was my favorite of the four models Um, you know, I've I've also got a A pretty good handle on how to paint greens and oranges and and and those sorts of colors warm colors But I do tend to struggle more with the cold colors. Um Most of my greens blues and teals, uh, tend to tend to be warm So trying to do cold versions of that and cold skin tones on on water and air was was definitely harder Um Water I found was a lot easier to do because the the colors are sort of more in my wheelhouse with the greens and Um, just trying to take cold versions of that but but definitely, um air was the most challenging Trying to have the purple, um, not be a dominant Color and be more lilac was challenging. Um, the swan was a nightmare to paint. Uh, the cloud Very hard to paint a cloud Right. Oh, I it is Uh, like I like its presence in the piece. It's nice. It communicates that she's air But I think if there's one thing that I would love to abolish it's people putting Uh gaseous substances On on miniatures into plastic form So hard to be crazy every time it shows up Fog smoke. I'm just like, okay, sure Because yeah, even when you nail the colors, it still never really feels like the thing because there's just that intangible Translucence to it, right? Well, what I ended up doing was just using the airbrush and and having it feel Unfinished in comparison to the rest of the piece because the you know the way I paint with the airbrush I use it to smooth out high contrasts, right transitions But but here I've got this very low contrast, you know soft Uh, sort of sort of um feeling to it, which obviously works for the cloud But it is certainly my least favorite part of that of that whole piece Yeah, that's funny Uh, because I was going to say it's going to say the same thing But I love this I actually really like even that you integrated a little bit of a very subtle warmth into water But in the direction of fire Right, so it feels like that's actually like as though fire is so Very hot and so like fire puts off light and heat Hence she is pushing some of her color out into the rest of the world around her But yet water still feels very cold. I think I think water skin tone is absolutely my favorite those like blue and green Undertones there the way you captured those just are absolutely Gorgeous to me like I just I love everything about her skin tone the even down to uh, the her lips Feeling but you know being in that blue tone and her eye shadow like the way her eyes are reflecting those lights and playing across the tones Of of on her eyelids and she has closed mostly closed eyes Um, I think she's absolutely great in that respect Thank you Fire fire is actually probably the thing that anchors the rest of the piece In a lot of ways because she is radiating heat throughout the whole piece And if you look at uh, you know the the model from different angles that there's there's warmth coming Out on I'm touching on the swan and on on the rock face on the the coral You know on on the back of earth. There's a lot of there's a lot of that warmth coming out and I think That was sort of what allowed me to tie the the three models Of the four models together was having that one consistent thing that everything was anchored around so Yeah, yeah, it's it's something I think you should be very proud of it's an absolutely amazing piece amazing accomplishment It's it's a wonderful piece of art in the truest sense of the word. So yeah, I we actually visited uh in in florins the uh The ufizi and there is actually a room called the elements the room of the elements and it's it had a lot of Classical artwork there which had um elemental pieces of artwork, which was super cool to visit Whilst I was mulling over this This piece obviously I hadn't started painting yet. So but yeah, no, I'm really proud of this piece. I I certainly think I I feel like the other the angel and demon is is a better piece Because it's there's more time invested in the individual models, you know I reached a point with the elements where I was like, I just don't know that I can keep going I could probably have spent another three months on it to really Take the detail and and and the quality of the transitions and everything up another notch but It was just an experience that that I wanted to enjoy You know, I wanted to feel like I I was I was um Enjoying painting these models and I didn't want to reach a point where I I I wasn't so I I I said I'm calling it here and I do actually have a few little things to tweak I want to do some more water effects down the bottom I want to add some some little lily pads and stuff which I will do I'm going to enter it into a small painting competition in brisbane Which is called qm he later on in the year before I ship it off to its new owner. So nice Absolutely gorgeous. All right, let's let's go back to you on screen here. All right All right, so now it's time for the lightning round questions and and audience who's watching if you've got any questions For Trent go ahead and drop them in the comments They'll get that in just a second. So go ahead and type those up. But first we're going to go through Uh, my lightning round questions some of which we've already touched on but that's okay We'll start at the beginning with the most challenging Lightning round question ready. Okay. You have you must pick one. That's the rules of the game So Who is your your favorite miniature painter? miniature painter past or present? Uh, that's such a hard question me. I know that's the whole point. It's supposed to Uh, I think I think I if I was to be very Biased and and and uh use my country. I would probably have said Sebastian Archer Um, because I love him but but I'm gonna go Hmm, I'm probably gonna go with uh Land studio Um He he just At this point in time it'd either be land or carol and I think I'll go with land. He just he's his Models you can pick him from a mile away. You just know immediately. It's land. They just have this real otherworldly quality to them. Um He's not as he's not as revolutionary as carol. I don't think and and he's probably not as um, you know, uh Innovative as um as someone like Alfonso or or you know as as Consistent as masclans, you know, but but I think uh That the models that have most inspired me recently have been pieces from from land studio. So land Michael Yeah, Michael's asking. Yeah uh, I I I can only wholeheartedly endorse that to that kind of a choice because my god The amount of time that I've used his models as inspiration or reference or looked at and just marveled You know, there was one he did recently with like, uh, it was the the bust of sort of the girl who's kind of in the prison like this boner stone prison around her and just what he achieved on like the red skin tones of feeling somebody who Was like an extreme heat and stuff like that. It was just I just you know, it was just like I immediately wanted to go paint a piece that used warm skin tones, right and just play with what what could I I do in a similar vein. He's the kind of person who just makes you want to reach and try for stuff Yeah, that is a hundred percent. It is. I was lost all by Cal Rudy. Oh, there you go Thank you Your knowledge by the way of the sculptors and the names of pieces is beyond impressive It is a thing I lack. I can never keep it in my head. Like I recognize the piece. I'm like, oh, yeah I know what that is. That's and I can usually say like this person painted it and this person painted it And this person painted it, but I can never remember who did him and that's really insulting to the sculptors Who are doing such amazing work. I should focus on that more so I have I have a Almost photographic memory and a lot of things numbers models. I tend to be I tend to be I don't remember pretty much everything, but Yeah, anyway, all good. Nice. Nice. All right. Good answer. Now. I think we already touched on this one Uh, but nonetheless, we'll get it out there. What's your favorite color of paint? Again, you must pick one Doesn't have to be I don't care about brand just color Uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna go with Uh, scorpion green from valet model air. Wow, my favorite color that I use I tend to use a lot of greens and so it's been something I've used a lot of it's a model air color But I use I don't use it through the airbrush. Generally. I use it Uh through the brush. Nice. That is a that is a wonderfully specific answer. I like it All right, uh now for this next question, you can construe the word type however you like What is your favorite type of miniatures to paint? Um I could I could answer with you know, I prefer to paint busts or I prefer to paint you know 75 mill models But but I actually the thing that inspires me most and the thing I like to paint most is is just really uh fantasy Archetypical models, you know barbarians wizards, you know druids Knights because of because of my background and you know where I started and what I get inspired by so so Fantasy archetypes is what I would answer that question with gotcha. So basically if you're uh In your mind Like the the pieces that sort of grab you the things you like to paint are like if you've got a frazzetta painting Just translate it into a miniature. There you go Got it right on All right, so let's go to a couple questions from the viewers here Uh, since you've been on this this learning journey, uh, what's the thing you've enjoyed Learning the most and what do you what do you feel you've learned that you're most satisfied with as of right now today? Um The the most valuable thing I've learned is uh The the value of practice um without a doubt The um What was the second half of the question? What what's what's been learned? That's been them that you that you are currently the most satisfied with in your progression that you feel you've made real progression with um I It's probably skin tones in general, you know, I think uh When I was painting skin tones as a as a gamer It was always get a bit of the albrons flesh out there get a flesh wash happening and then you know l flesh highlights job done so to to go from that to where I am now with with skin tones and and how much more nuance and color and you know, uh, contrast and You know considered Approach to painting skin tones. I think that's that's probably my my favorite thing that I do now is paint interesting skin tones Nice. All right. Very good Uh And then somebody had said when did you decide? I think the answer is basically three years ago But but maybe not Maybe it's there's kind of multiple influence inflections because I just talked about your journey But somebody said when did you decide that painting isn't just a fad but a serious thing? Do you think that happened multiple times in your life? Because you know, you still wanted to paint when you were gaming. Hmm. Yeah, it's interesting I think when I first started playing, you know warhammer and and and actually necromunda Was that was the seminal gaming experience of my life? I should add because that was that just Loved it. All right. Hold on. We got it. We got a pause here for a second. Which what gang? Uh, I was I played goliath, but I think my favorite gang is escher escher gangs All right, you you have given the correct answer in eschers. You may now continue. Please continue I that that experience man when I was we just used to play every weekend And you know, just I think the progression the experience, you know The side of her watching these little stories unfold It just made a flight my imagination like nothing else and I never got the same feeling out of mordheim but but it certainly drove me into Dungeons and Dragons and you know, all those sorts of things but um To go back to your question, uh, I Realized I love painting very early on in in that Gaming journey, you know, I would I would paint armies and and models More than my friends because I just wanted to paint so You know, probably as early on as when I first started in the hobby was when I felt that but there's been periods in my life where I haven't um, and it's only really probably been in the last four or five years where where I've started to value that um as as a as a release as a you know a time for for My brain to you know, work through some of the things and the challenges that I have in my life You know, just just a real a real moment for me to to almost yoga like Zen life experience. Um, so it's it's yeah, probably probably four or five years ago when I um Really started to value and appreciate what it was. Nice. Nice Uh So another question here from viewer. Have you ever had a big aha moment when discovering how to correct a flaw On a technique or application or or something like that or you were trying something and just something clicked Can you think of any moment where when you were trying something it just you were like that's okay? I got that that work. Yeah, I can actually I've got a perfect one and it was in megs class. Um so we talk We we talked a lot about highlighting and stuff and I I was obviously relatively advanced in terms of my technique and my capabilities when I was in megs class but I wasn't understanding the concept and uh, I painted this orc arm and uh I did the highlight which is which is a common mistake that painters make so The lighting on the model was coming from the top down but I did the highlight uh here because when I was looking at it This was the highest raised area of the orc's arm so Instead of the light being here from the top down I was highlighting from here and when she pointed it out. I had a fundamental shift in how I thought about uh Uh, where to highlight and and how volumes interact so that that um was a huge Learning experience and I think from there that that may have even been the moment where I was like Well, I think I really want to get into the display painting more because that's a huge a huge thing. Um So that was it. That was a big moment. I actually read a book from a guy called genie abondement taboo Uh called figopedia, which uh, which was reading through that book was another huge Expanding of my brain and and and how I approached miniature paintings. So that sort of talks about that concept a lot more as well Nice. Yes. I know that a lot of people recommend that book. There's another one. Um What is it? I can't think of it off top of my head. See because this is why I'm bad my brain It doesn't work anymore. Uh color and light or whatever, right? Another big one. Yeah Uh, yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, there we go. That's it. We're at the end. So, uh, Everybody out there. Thank you very much for watching. As I said, make sure you look down below in the description You're going to see all of trends socials. You can follow him instagram twitter His blog will be down there. Go and read that article. I really can't recommend it enough if you are anyone who's wanting to Improve or take steps on your hobby journey. You know, that's a big part of what I'm all about is trying to To help people take their next steps. And I think trends article is such a great great Great distillation of so many core concepts that people should be employing. So I really can't recommend you to go check that out enough Uh, if you're watching this and you liked the interview, go ahead and hit that little like button over there. It's right there There it is. It's down. It's down there Go ahead and hit that. It's very much appreciated because it helps other people find Uh, this interview with this great artist. It helps other people find trend Uh, so we really appreciate that when you hit that little like button and or and or subscribe as always Uh, but as for that trend, thank you very much, sir appreciate your time today. It's been great Thanks for joining me on an early saturday morning My pleasure, mate. It's been it's been great. And uh, just personally It's really a real privilege to have you come down to australia and you know, be a part of our Our little community. We're very isolated and and it's it means a lot when we have painters come and You know, be a part of our community. So hopefully uh, hopefully we'll see you again next year I am fully planning on it. So barring barring anything unusual happening You'll see me floating around and hopefully this time with a better schedule So for all of you out there watching, thank you very much always appreciate it. We'll see you next time