 Hello, everyone. Welcome to the third annual Edprep Lab Policy Summit. My name is Steve Wojcikiewicz and I'm a Senior Researcher and Policy Advisor at the Learning Policy Institute, a non-profit, non-partisan organization committed to advancing evidence-based policy that supports equitable and empowering learning for every child. As you can see from our agenda, we've got a full program today. We'll start with a brief introduction to the work of Edprep Lab. Next, we'll have a presentation by Linda Darling-Hammond, President and CEO of the Learning Policy Institute and President of the California State Board of Education. Following Linda's presentation, we'll move on to a discussion with our distinguished panelists who we'll introduce in a few moments. After the panel discussion, Linda Darling-Hammond will join us again to offer a few summary remarks and then we'll proceed to a moderated Q&A session where our panelists will respond to audience questions. As we turn to our brief overview of the work of Edprep Lab, let me introduce Maria Heiler. She is the Director of Edprep Lab, as well as a Senior Researcher and Director of the Washington D.C. Office at the Learning Policy Institute, and now I'll turn it over to Maria. Thank you so much, Steve, and thank you all for attending our third annual Edprep Lab Virtual Policy Summit. We were excited that you joined us for our focus on building the teacher pipeline, emerging models for high quality educator preparation. Since its launch in 2019, Edprep Lab has been committed to transforming the field of educator preparation nationally through the alignment of research practice and policy. To learn more about our work and to explore our extensive resource library, including teacher and leader preparation curricular resources, please visit our website at edpreplab.org. Edprep Lab receives project support from the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the W. Clement and Jesse V. Stone Foundation, and the Yellow Chair Foundation. Core operating support for all of LPI's work is provided by Heisen Simons Foundation, Hewlett Foundation, Reichs Foundation, Sandler Foundation, and Mackenzie Scott. We thank them all for their generous support. I wanted to take just a minute to share with you some of the important work that Edprep Lab has been involved in over the last year. Our research base has focused on deeper learning and equity from our launch with our two studies on preparing teachers for deeper learning and preparing leaders for deeper learning. Simultaneously to this work was a gathering of research related to the science of learning and development. Sold stems from a series of foundational resources you see here published in the Applied Developmental Science Journal, which synthesized knowledge across disciplines like neuroscience, learning and developmental psychology, anthropology, and other social sciences to illustrate what we know about how individuals grow and learn. Through these synthesis, which bridged disciplinary silos, sold surfaced key principles about how individuals learn and develop. This growing body of research, next slide please, affirms the research on deeper learning and equity, and gives us the tools to help enact these principles. Last year, we launched our integration of this research with sold at our spring convening. At the end of this day, we'll drop the link into the chat. We built on this at our October form where we dug into the design principle schools for schools. Next slide. Seen here, which came out of the sold alliance, a group of field leaders and organizations that believe the science of learning and development holds multiple powerful positive lessons regarding the potential in each and every young person. The students of the sold alliance are particularly interested in teacher and leader preparation, including LPI and Bank Street College of Education. So a natural step was to think about how best to prepare teachers and leaders to create these schools and classrooms that the school design principles lay out. And prep lab took up the charge of seeing what the research says, and designing a set of principles, starting with teacher preparation. We built an advisory committee made up primarily at prep lab faculty that represented expertise across different domains, including learning sciences, culturally sustaining and responsive education, multi lingual and bilingual learning subject specific expertise such as math education and literacy experts, as well as scholars and practitioners with knowledge of exceptional children and inclusive education. The result of this work are these five design principles. Next slide please. These are the two that are aligned with the design principles for schools that were on the previous side and the colors are very similar, but they are there are differences. That'll be highlighted in the next iteration. So these two sets of design principles are the focus of this year's learning cafe series. These cafes give participants the opportunity to dive deeper into research and best practices in sold aligned pedagogies. They're open to the public. And next slide. These are the dates and topics of these remaining for the year right here. Our next two learning cafes are scheduled for February 1 and third and focus on preparing educators to create environments of safety and belonging, and we'll drop the link into chat. We're really excited about the speakers for these two days. And you should definitely get a chance to either register and attend or register and then listen to it. Because all of our learning cafes are available online. And this includes an overview of the sole design principles, which was their first learning cafe. And a deep dive into centering authentic relationships and teaching and learning, which features Travis Bristol and Jacqueline Allison from UC Berkeley, and the California residency lab, which Jacqueline co leads. And that topic is particularly relevant to the summit which focuses on these emerging models. And we hope you're able to join us for the remaining learning cafes, and learn more about the work of ed prep lab members, while diving deeply into the sole design principles. We're excited about the potential these design principles to help programs to drill down to how to design the work they do best to prepare their teachers to engage in sold aligned deeper learning and equity practices. To truly leverage change in the field, however, it is critical that the standards that govern educator preparation program approval and accreditation, as well as candidate licensure and certification are transformed. In late 2021 LPI launched the first steps in such an effort through the establishment of a teacher licensure collaborative, or TLC as we call it, a group of national partners and 16 states with for auditing, working to revise teacher licensure and certification standards to incorporate whole child practices, including social emotional learning and ensure alignment with the science of learning and development. This work grown of LPI's whole child, whole child policy table, which brings together the four major state education policy membership organizations, the Council of chief state school officers, National Association of State Boards of Education, the National Conference of State Legislatures, the National Governors Association, and others to support the integration of sold aligned approaches into state education policy. Together with ed prep lab these partnerships provide the infrastructure to create lasting transformation of educator preparation. Part of the reason I'm sharing about this work is to let you know the exciting things being accomplished through ed prep lab, but also as a backdrop of today's conversation. As we discuss emerging models, some were emerging than others. It's important to think not only about the structure of these programs but the intent design and implementation of them as well. Comprehensive teacher preparation, grounded in the science of learning seeks to strengthen the teaching profession and build an educator workforce that is diverse and sustainable, no matter what the model. So with that, I'd like to turn it over to Linda darling Hammond who's going to share about these models and their potential for change. She is the president and CEO of the learning policy Institute, and the current president of the California State Board of Education. She is also the recipient of the 2022 Yedon Prize, which recognized her work in supporting student centered equity focused teacher preparation programs that are grounded in the science of learning and development, and prepare teachers to help all students learn in empowering ways. And she will be sharing her presentation building the teacher pipeline emerging models for high quality educator preparation. Thank you so much Linda for joining us today, and I'll turn it over to you now. It's a pleasure to be here. As you learn from Maria at prep lab exists to support powerful teacher education that uses what we know from the science of learning and development about how to teach diverse learners for deeper understanding, and to extend that capacity to do that by first enabling programs to inquire and improve together. Second by conducting and sharing research about that preparation and how it works. And third by working with policymakers to support high quality preparation and well prepared teachers in each and every community and each and every school. The two things preparing well prepared, educated, educators, and getting them to every school, a required to different policy strategies that are complimentary, because even if every teacher education program in the country, offered extraordinary preparation, it would not ensure access to well prepared teachers for all children because of the large share of positions that are filled by untrained teachers, especially in communities of color, and in low income communities. So in this time, you know, we need to be working on both of those agendas in collaboration with each other. Even though we know that the single most powerful in school predictor of student achievement is the presence of well qualified and experienced teachers. We are doing far too little in the United States right now to ensure that goal but there are some promising new initiatives that we're going to talk about today. We did a study at LPI of positive outlier school districts in California, those that succeeded beyond others in raising achievement for black Latinx and white students from across household income levels. And we found that the strongest predictor of student success was teacher qualifications and experience as many other studies have found, and the strongest predictor of low achievement was the number of teachers on emergency levels and substandard credentials, just as we need to activate the most skillful teaching possible in this moment of learning recovery in what we hope is a post pandemic era that we're entering. We have 10s of thousands of teachers entering without preparation to fill the more than 200,000 classrooms left without qualified teachers, due to shortages, which are the most severe always in the schools, serving the concentrations of students of color and students living in poverty, who then provide the least expert instruction to those who need it more. And the teachers who come in without full preparation are also more likely to leave the teaching profession quickly. Two to three times as likely to leave in the first year and more likely also in the subsequent years that creates churn in the schools which also depresses student achievement and further exacerbates the shortages. So we get a vicious cycle of people coming in and out who have to be replaced in the next year, replacing each teacher in urban districts costs about $20,000 per teacher. So it's a real sort of problem of investing, sort of being penny wise and pound foolish in the way in which we do these investments. According to the Department of Education, all 50 states have reported shortages in more than one area for this school year, especially of course including special education teachers method science teachers, teachers of English learners, but in some communities those shortages are across the board in almost all areas. What's happening is that expectations for teacher learning are being reduced in some states and dropped entirely in some Florida for example now allows military veterans without a BA to teach for five years while they undergo training. Arizona has eliminated the BA requirement entirely. Many other states like most other states allow teachers to enter on emergency permits without having preparation in the content areas they will cover, or in how to teach those content areas, but addressing teacher shortages by focusing on getting warm bodies into classrooms won't solve the country's chronic challenges and it will shortchange students at a time when we need to be doubling down on supporting them well. And it's critically important that rather than rushing in with band aid approaches, such as lowering requirements that policymakers use this moment and the funds available to us through the American Rescue Plan Act and through other federal and state sources to commit to professionalizing teaching by developing a well prepared well supported workforce that attracts highly qualified candidates who are motivated to become and remain teachers. We do see places that are making headway on this, but if we compare the US to other countries, if you are going into teaching in Finland or Singapore about the size of our median state. You would go in with full of freely available high quality preparation program with salary or stipend while you were going to school, as well as no tuition to pay. You would come out and receive mentoring from a trained mentor teacher in your school, and you would be paid equivalently to other college educated professionals, and then get free and well easily available professional for your career in the more than eight extra hours a week that you have for in school collaborative planning and learning, compared to a US teacher. So we have a lot to do to improve the status of the profession and the conditions of teaching. And right now the average US teacher earns about 75% of what a another college educated worker will earn that does vary across the states it's much better in some states and much less good and others but the key point is that while teachers tend not to go into the profession for the salary for the money they want to make a difference with children, they can't afford to go into a significant amount of debt to go into a profession. That is not one of the highly paid professions in our society. And so we've got to figure out how both to focus on investing in affordable preparation that is also high quality and that's where some of these new models really come in. We also need to know that we need to focus on retention, because in the United States about eight or 9% of teachers leave each year, a higher in, you know places that are less supportive of teachers lower in places that are more supportive but on average, that's still twice as what you would see in terms of teacher turnover in places like Finland or Singapore. So if we could reduce attrition by half, we could actually end shortages entirely. And part of what we need to do is bring people in through high retention pathways pathways that allow them to be well prepared, and to be able to stay in the profession. And this is where these new models of preparation are tackling both quality and affordability. We know that a strong clinical practice opportunities are critically available, critically important, not yet adequately available for keeping teachers in the profession and enabling them to be effective. We know that high quality programs have extended clinical practice typically at least a full year integrated with high quality coursework that is practical and able to be applied that connects theory and practice. They work in schools that illustrate best practices, and they receive expert mentoring as they're learning to teach. And so we see that high quality teacher residencies which are emerging on the scene. And a lot of traction in the policy community now do all of this in their best iterations, and they do it with financial supports. The first teacher residency was really created in Chicago. And that is actually how then Senator Obama knew about it, writing the first residency bill which I was pleased to assist with. And that program brought teachers in to schools where the expert mentors were being well paid where the teachers were getting full salary, more at the level of a paraprofessional than a full teacher but a very much a livable wage, while they were getting a very, very supportive, intensive preparation for learning to teach. What we've seen across the country as more and more states are picking up this kind of practice, which grounded on the medical residency model that gives teachers certification, you know within that year of very well supported financially and in terms of learning to teach in terms of that model that they then stay at much higher rates we see retention rates for teachers and residencies of 80 or 90% over three to five years after graduating. Mentoring that they receive in the years following the first year of practice, not as teacher of record but as an apprentice if you will a resident under the wing of an expert teacher really produced that high retention rate we also see that residencies typically are much more diverse. On average across the country when there was a recent study about two thirds of residents were candidates of color. We certainly see that in the substantial residency programs in California. And we also see from a number of studies that residents are viewed as highly effective by the principals who hire them and the superintendent said also gets strong student outcomes. So this is a way that these programs when they're vested in districts with close partnerships where candidates then promised to teach for three to five years after graduating that these programs then end the problem of the churn that creates ongoing shortages, create the pathway for very able very well prepared people to come into the profession and become leaders in the profession in that district, and really provide a different model both for solving shortages and for preparing teachers. We now have a number of states California has put more than $600 million into teacher residencies in the past few years with a state investment of about 25,000 per resident matched by the partnering district. We just did a study in California and found that about 1200 residents graduated last year about 10% of the teaching force now is coming through residencies, they rated their programs, the most highly of any pathway that candidates come through in California, and were really well viewed in the districts in which they prepared by their employers as well. So we've got some headwinds around really building an infrastructure. In other states, Texas has invested $91 million of Essar funds into residencies New Mexico, West Virginia, Montana, Mississippi, have all made significant investments. The federal government has investments possible through the teacher quality program, the Augustus Hawkins Centers of Excellence program which is particularly focused on historically black colleges and minority serving institutions, the individuals with Disabilities Education Act idea has funding that allows support for professionals coming in and preparing for special education teaching. These programs currently total about $200 million. They could be much more substantial over time and that would make a huge difference in the ways in which people come into the teaching profession. Another source of resources for affordable high quality preparation is apprenticeship money. The first registered apprenticeship in K-12 teaching was approved by the Department of Labor last year. So this is a new approach. You know about apprenticeships in other fields where you learn under the wing of an expert and you get paid. We're going to learn and earn strategy for coming into a profession. I will learn more about this from Commissioner Schwinn, who's been doing amazing work in Tennessee on all of these programs and strategies. But they have really been leading the way on the apprenticeship front. So they have programs where paraprofessionals can earn a bachelor's in a teaching credential. And of course people can tap their local workforce opportunity investment act funds, as well as federal funds. If we design these apprenticeships in the right way, they should be very much like residencies. They should be integrated with coursework and provide an increasing wages you're undergoing preparation. And once a preparation becomes affordable, we can bring more diverse candidates into teaching. We can be really responsive to local workforce needs and it can open up new sources of funds that haven't historically been used for teacher preparation. So the Department of Labor, for example, issued $121 million in apprenticeship builds America grants last year and registered apprenticeship programs received $285 million in federal funds in fiscal 23. So we've got many strategies now more states are coming online, trying to develop apprenticeship models. And according to one recent report the Department of Labor recognizes teacher apprenticeship programs in 16 states, and more of them are joining this work is still very new opportunities to learn from others in the field are very critical which is one reason we're so excited about this panel today. These two models that I've just described are both often using differentiated differentiated staffing approaches, where teachers may actually be prospective teachers may be hired as paraprofessionals. In some cases we've got a lot of people working on tutoring, which is another way to bring people into a paid framework as they're doing clinical work and student teaching. And they can be deliberate and purposeful about how to bring prospective teachers in to the profession through the paraprofessional route and through other helping roles in schools where they can be compensated where they can be getting a very purposeful clinical training, and they can be there for that full year from the beginning when the students walk in the door to the end of that school year to see how it all unfolds over time, so that they can really be contributors, and not viewed as a a challenge for the school to accommodate, but as a resource and a contributor to the school's efforts with students. A real concern is keeping in mind the issues of quality and designing all of these new models. There's a danger, given the severe shortages that so many states and districts have been facing, that the sort of training dimension, the support dimension of residencies or differential staffing or apprenticeships could become another route into the profession where teachers, prospective teachers are thrown in as teacher of record with little support or actual apprenticeship under the wing of an expert teacher with their, you know, coursework supporting that clinical learning. So we've got to really be mindful of how to design these policymakers need to think about that as do practitioners who are advising and creating these programs. There are efforts underway to provide guidelines to the states and districts to inform some of this work and these these considerations around quality. Some of this work is happening through the pathways Alliance, which is called quote an uncommon coalition of leading programs that are dedicated to supporting and implementing diverse and inclusive educator preparation pipelines, including teacher residency programs and apprenticeships which at prep lab, a CTE ASU and LPI are all part of. I hope that as we are really trying to deeply solve these parts of the dilemma that we've had around quality preparation and pathways into teaching that solve shortages that we're really building a new set of models that can last and maintain that quality dimension that will allow people to be well enough prepared to stay in the profession. These efforts do have to be accompanied by other policies. We need to create affordable accessible pathways into the profession routinely. I came into teaching back in the 1970s on the National Defense Education Act loans and loan forgiveness programs that Urban Teacher Corps was happening at that time along with a lot of other investments. We do need service scholarships and loan forgiveness programs we need to be sure that people can come into teaching without debt. We need to say as a nation and within our states that if you will teach, we will pay for your education. As they do in other countries where they understand that you know teachers knowledge and skills as an investment that has pays off dividends for many, many, many years to come. We need to be sure that we're providing mentors for early career teachers, teachers who get good mentoring are twice as likely to stay as teachers who come in and don't get mentoring. So again, we need to support that learning process. We need to implement recruitment incentives to attract expert accomplished teachers to high need schools. We have a lot of schools in this country which are filled by a revolving door of inexperienced and sometimes underprepared teachers, and there aren't enough mentors in these schools to help bring the new teachers in in a way that will allow them to be successful. So, for example, California just put in place $250 million to pay stipends to national board certified teachers who go into high poverty schools, they get $5,000 a year over five years as an added stipend to be part of that school community to also enable them to be mentors. We know they are more effective than other teachers, generally, and they're very effective mentors, as well, whose mentees accomplish more in terms of learning games with their students as a result of having had that expert mentoring. And finally, we need to create school conditions that allow teachers to be effective. Moving beyond the factory model we inherited. We know since the pandemic how important it is to put in place more personalized and relational school programs that allow students to be well known and teachers to work with fewer students for longer periods of time, and thus to be more effective as they work in teaching teams that share students as they have block schedules as they have advisory systems as they have looping that allows them to stay with students all of these things actually help teachers stay in schools longer because they feel that they can be effective and that's what really motivates them. Students are getting more of what they need. Community school models that offer wraparound supports, health and mental health services and nutrition and social services also support teacher retention, because kids are getting more of what they need, and teachers can do their work in a more successful way. We have opportunities to work in teaching teams and collaborate a time for that collaboration and professional learning. All of these things are part of a school redesign that some have undertaken, and more schools need to undertake, so that the life of a teacher, after being well prepared and eager to contribute is one that is successful and sustainable. All of these things, of course, are important right now as we're approaching the learning recovery that is needed in this post pandemic era. We have a moment right now to take this opportunity to double down on creating a strong teaching profession in schools that are better organized to support their success. We all know that teaching is the profession on which all other professions depend. Our society needs great teachers to nurture great learners, people who are empowered to be curious and to imagine and to tackle the enormous challenges we face today and those we can't even yet foresee. So it's a moment where we can be sure that our investments in teachers are investments in our children and in our collective future. It's a wonderful panel of amazing policymakers and preparers of teachers to really help us understand the practicalities of how to bring this vision into reality. Passing the ball back to you. Linda, thank you so much. We really appreciate your being with us here today and your remarks were wonderful, leading into our panel. Thank you. Well, we look forward to hearing from Linda again at the conclusion of our panel discussion when she will rejoin us to provide some summary remarks before we proceed to our Q&A session but right now, I would like to introduce our panelists. We've got together this panel of distinguished education leaders who will provide us with perspectives from across the field and at the national, state and local levels. Before we get started. Let me take a moment to introduce them. First, we have our moderator Lynn Gangone, President and CEO of the American Association of Colleges for Teacher Education. Lynn Gangone is president and CEO of AACTE. She is a seasoned education leader with education agency association and campus based leadership experience. As a faculty member, campus senior administrator, association executive and lobbyist and policy analyst, Dr. Gangone brings a unique perspective to our work. Now on to our panelists. First, we have Carol Basile, Dean of the Mary Lou Fulton Teachers College at Arizona State University. Carol Basile is the Dean of the Mary Lou Fulton Teachers College at Arizona State and her work has centered on redesigning the education workforce and workplace to drive more equitable working and learning environments for educators and learners. She is currently working with education organizations nationally and internationally to design new systems for educators and their students. Her prior research focused on math and science education, teacher education and environmental education and her recent co-authored book is entitled Next Education Workforce, How Team Based Staffing Models Can Support Equity and Improve Learning Outcome. Next, Roberto J. Rodriguez, who currently serves as assistant secretary for planning, evaluation and policy development at the U.S. Department of Education, where he leads the development and review of the department's budget and advises the secretary on all matters related to policy development, implementation and review. Roberto's distinguished career in public service includes senior government roles in the White House and in the U.S. Senate. Most recently, Rodriguez served as president and CEO of Teach Plus. And finally, Penny Schwinn. Penny Schwinn was sworn in as Tennessee's Education Commissioner on February 1, 2019. As commissioner, Dr. Schwinn is committed to building on Tennessee's momentum over the last decade and plans to continue to accelerate growth through the state's strategic plan, Best for All, which focuses on high quality academics, student readiness and supports, and the state's strong current and future educators. Coming from a family of educators and committed to increasing access to an excellent education for all children, Commissioner Schwinn began her work as a high school history and economics teacher. She previously served in a number of roles in education, including chief deputy commissioner of academics, assistant superintendent, a school principal and an elected school board member. Welcome to you all. We are looking forward to the discussion. And now I will turn it over to our moderator, Lynn Gango. Thank you, Steve. And thank you Learning Policy Institute at Edcrep Lab and Bank Street College. These three people are colleagues and friends. So I am anticipating a great conversation today to all of you online. Welcome again. We've already seen questions in the chat and so we'll be moving through for some Q&A with our panelists. And then we'll be joined back by Linda Darling Hammond, and so I'm sure you'll have a lot to discuss while you're here with us today. We hope to get your juices flowing. So let me start first by asking all the panelists the following question. So from your unique vantage points, all of you have experience with emerging models of teacher preparation, and you heard Lynn to talk about those residencies, apprenticeships, differentiated staffing, and workforce models. What are you seeing in terms of early implementation of these models? And then I have two sub-questions, of course. The first is, what looks promising and are you seeing any potential challenges? And what types of outcomes are available to assess short-term effectiveness? So let me turn first to Dean Basile. Carol Basile, could you get us started? Sure. So I think every one of the things that Linda just talked about is a game changer, right? And it's a game changer really for two reasons. One is that it's all really about clinical practice, like there's nothing in there about, like, we know what the good content is, but this leverages change in such a different way when we start thinking about our students, right, who are now paid, whether it's internships, whether it's residencies, lowering the cost, lowering time to completion, more authentic experience, increasing the quality of faculty, you know, experience and interaction and feedback. You can imagine, right, that if we could get this right, we could, I'm glad I'm doing this virtually, by the way, because nobody can throw anything at me, but, because I'm going to say something. But imagine, right, that we could stop, we could actually replace student teaching, that student teaching, as we know it, could go away. Because all of the clinical experience would actually get pushed back early and often, and be connected and attached to all of the things that we're teaching and be more authentic. And so that's a, that's a game changer for teacher preparation. The other part of this, right, is that we could then also be thinking about, as we are thinking about, the different roles that these apprentices in Paris and teaching assistants could play in the learning environment. We talk a lot about larger team-based learning environments, and these would help us to start thinking about new ways to credential, new technicians, much like health care as we think about moving away from generalists, new opportunities for specialization, new opportunities for advancement. And so all of this, if it becomes a leverage for all of that, would be unbelievable. I always think of the model that you talk about, Carol, where you talk about how someone's treated in a hospital, and how they have all of these specialists with varying expertise working together as a team. And I know you're going to get into that a little bit more. Assistant Secretary Rodriguez, Roberto, I would love to hear from you on thinking about what Dean Basile said, and also some of your thoughts from the Department of Education perspective. Thank you so much, Lynn, and I'm just so thrilled to be part of today's conversation. I want to echo the thanks to the Learning Policy Institute and Bank Street College and the Edprep Lab for organizing today's discussion. I can't think of a more important time for us to come together and have this discussion around how we prepare and support and lift up the next generation of our educators. You know, we have the duality of challenges that we're facing in this moment, right, of the pandemic recovery, and the acceleration and support of student learning, and the continued and often too divisive politics around how and what we teach in our classrooms. So, this is the time for us to come together and to really embrace some new models and and to bring the evidence around what we know works around that clinical practice that Carol mentioned that Linda outlined alongside a longer duration of supporting our teachers, not just in their pre-service program, but through induction and in mentoring and in thinking about how we support that early career success of our teachers that we know is so important to their retention in the field. The magnitude of our teacher shortage is the dynamic that is looming, and that we've already discussed this afternoon, that is manifesting in all 50 states, right, we knew before the pandemic, the 10 years leading prior we had about a third fewer teacher shortage in our pipeline. We know even now, you know that that this shortage is not just about special education or stem or bilingual or some of those classic shortage areas, it is across our schools and districts and rural and urban and suburban areas. So, we really see this as an opportunity for us to think about how can the federal government play a role in supporting and scaling evidence based models, our residencies and our grow your own programs, our opportunities to pioneer, and I know you'll hear from when about this they've been such a leader in Tennessee, a registered apprenticeship model for educators that adheres to high standards of quality, and that brings our institutions of higher education alongside our state leaders, and our districts as partners, too often in the past, you know, the way we've confronted some of these challenges around building the teaching profession. You know, we have these three discrete, you know, kind of systems of our districts and our programs and our policymakers, and how can we bring all of those together and leverage some of the resources that we have in the system today. And so, our donor just about a year ago put out some guidance the field encouraging the use of the American rescue plan dollars those dollars that President Biden fought so hard to secure to come alongside those hearth dollars and encourage our institutions of our education and our district leaders and our state leaders to come together and surge capacity in high quality residency programs in doing more to knit together opportunities for our students to enter the profession. We need more pathways that are accessible are attainable are affordable for our teachers, and that adhere to what we know works relative to the evidence base and to the research here so you know I remain very hopeful. So when hearing from and learning from so many leaders in the field that are leveraging the dollars in the here and now to make progress, you know, we have about $2.6 billion in our federal resources that we're bringing alongside state leaders and institution leaders higher ed leaders local leaders to make this a priority. And I said this to you during our practice session that you know those of us in the field are incredibly appreciative to the Department of Education and for your leadership and the support at the federal level for the work that we're all doing so. Thank you very much on behalf of all of us I'm seeing some conversation in the chat that reflects that that as well so thank you. Commissioner switch. It's been, you know, you and I have spent a lot of time together we were at the White House together and I know that you've been doing some great work in in apprenticeships but more generally speaking from your post as a State Commissioner would love to hear your remarks on on this question. Yeah, thanks so much and I'll echo what others have said it's just it's a delight to be on on this panel today on and talking about something that we know is critical especially in this moment. It is something that I think across the country state chiefs are spending a lot of time energy and investments in in trying to think about how do we get great folks interested in teaching how do we get them through preparation programs that are going to ensure that they are successful once they're in their students and then how do we keep them there. And how do we think about that in a broad way so one of the things that we certainly have been focusing on in Tennessee is ensuring that we are very clear about what our data says so what are our vacancies where are they and then what who and where can we look to fill them. How do we kind of remove unnecessary requirements so that we are focusing on high quality preparation programs and candidates who when they are in front of students on day one are able to excel in education and continue to develop along the way. And so one of the things obviously in Tennessee, we've been focusing on the, the apprenticeship program, but I do want to say that before that there's been a lot of work on residences, and really thinking about what we're going through for our educators and our future educators, so that on day one, they are confident well prepared and ready for the students that they will be educating. And some of that work in the residency model really thinking about on the ground practice real time feedback, looking at why teachers especially in their first four to five years don't stay in the profession and then trying to proactively address that has been work that's been going on in the state for, you know, well over five to 10 years in that timeframe and so the apprenticeship program for us is really the next logical step to say, lots of great lessons learned lots of great research out there, lots of other states and districts who have been doing this. How can we take it to the next level and look at what some of the barriers might be for our future educators to participate in these great programs and so the apprenticeship work I think is a really wonderful way in which we can ensure teachers have a first year teacher for free they're paid to do so. And on day one there's no such thing as a first year teacher, I think about my first year I think about the students that were in front of me and just how kind they must have been to miss Lee when she was working her way through her first year teaching, but under these types of models, we can erase this idea of a first year teacher because I mean candidly no student deserves a first year teacher. Students deserve really well seasoned educators, and we can do that if our preparation programs provide those opportunities for on the ground experience before day one. And we've been thrilled to see obviously the results in Tennessee I know that's one of kind of the sub questions. We're able to see things like our our enrollment at the University of Tennessee is increasing and higher than it's been in a long time so we're seeing that trend reverse. We're seeing higher pass rates on practice scores for students who have been able to participate in similar programs. We're seeing that those future teachers who were part of apprenticeship and or residency based programs are retaining for longer and the achievement results of students in their classrooms are higher. We had 10,000 children in the state of Tennessee, who did not have a credentialed or licensed teacher in front of them. We walked in the door in 2019 and that's unacceptable and so we actually kind of remove ourselves from the adult problems and think about it from the perspective of students. This is the critical time to address it and there are just a number of amazing solutions that I think are getting a lot of traction and acceleration. I absolutely agree and I think the three of you spoke very well about what those various solutions are it's exciting. One of the times we get caught up in the problems and so one of the things I love about the three of you is that you're very solutions oriented and thinking always about what is it that we can do. Carol you're unneeded did you want to add anything or Okay, just trying to be a good moderator here so let me ask you now given our time I actually want to move to some specific questions for each of you, and I'm going to start with Roberto. So, the Department of Education has expressed support for the work in Tennessee and in other states aimed at establishing and expanding new models of educator preparation. Hold on state policymakers and you know this is the thing I know that we're all concerned about right it's the states that make the policy so we work to work with those state individuals you work to set up guidelines. But we are asking state policymakers to establish teaching apprenticeships and you know of course we would say we would love those aligned with our educated preparation institutions as it has been in Tennessee. Invest in Residencies expand loan forgiveness and scholarship programs and increase teacher compensation. You did speak to this a little bit in your opening remarks but can you dig in a little bit on what kind of federal support is available now for states programs and districts that are implementing these policies. Sure, absolutely and well I will just begin and you know when you and I and, and Penny sat down together with Dr Biden in the Roosevelt room and talked about this we, you know we were with Secretary Cardona and Secretary wash from the Department of Labor. The ability for us at the federal level to come together and institute a apprenticeship model and pathway for our teachers that really is about a learn and earn approach right where you know affordability continues to be a big challenge in terms of entry into the education and particularly in those early years and being able to repay their loans we've tried we've made some changes to our public service loan forgiveness programs in fact we've been able to forgive $24 billion and loans to over 2 million public servants. And we have some new changes in the works to our student aid and loan repayment system that will save our average public school teacher about $1,700 over the course of their loan repayment every year. But we still know that's that's been a big barrier so we wanted we were interested in this apprenticeship model as a learn and earn approach. And one that helps support kind of the grow your own models that was our that already existed in our states. We embarked upon that we had only a couple states that we're looking at that we now have about a third of the states as Linda mentioned and I was just with a group of about 14 state leaders yesterday who are beginning to evolve and grow and innovate around this work, we continue to stay focused on how we support quality standards in that effort, but it's just one example of, you know, a playbook, how do we think about a new playbook for how we address building and supporting a thriving and diverse And again, we're talking today about teacher preparation, but this is only one piece of the broader work around how we really reinvigorate and elevate our teaching profession right and support that most noble profession to be the nation builders I like to use that to turn that Linda and I encountered when we were in Singapore, visiting with teacher preparation programs, and now and understanding that you know these are the those that are built at the helm of our classrooms building the future of our learners and our leaders and our democracy. So that's going to require us doing more to call states to action around teacher compensation, right so that our teachers are not having to work to and three jobs or, you know, pay a 24 cents penalty on every dollar earned relative to other college educated peers. We have to do better there. We have to do better to forge policy that addresses some of the working conditions and brings in more school counselors and more school social workers and others that can help to support the whole child and the mental health needs of our students. We have to do better to make sure that we're, we're creating the, and investing in the in the supports that our teachers need, and in the opportunities for them to lead beyond the four walls of their classroom, you know, our current generation. If we're going to attract and deeply prepare and support them. They want to come into a profession where they know they can continue to grow, learn and lead right with their peers in a collaborative setting where they can work with their principles and helping to shape what curriculum looks like and how we're supporting our learners and how we differentiate and how we expand those that learning time and that one on one support for their success. And so, you know, part of that it also involves making those structural pivots and those structural changes that we need in our system so we're eager to bring a lot of resources to bear there you know you heard some of those programs mentioned earlier our seed program. We have 22 new grants we put out there our teacher quality partnership program over 20 grants there, you know I know Carol has leveraged some of the wonderful American rescue plan dollars there in Arizona to help surge support so you know it's all hands on deck effort here for us and using those dollars to support deeper evidence driven preparation models, build a new playbook, and then support some of those other pivots that we know are needed to build a strong profession. That's great and I appreciate what you said about teacher agency and engagement and collaboration and in that regard I do want to pivot to Carol. We've talked a bit about apprenticeships here but I would really love for Carol dig in on the model that certainly I and a CTE have been following for a number of years now the next education workforce model. This is one of those innovative approaches so Carol can you help us think through alongside you what you see the are the unique features of this model and how you see it meeting the more contemporary needs that that we have an education today. Thanks Lynn, you know this is, you know this is not about teacher preparation, this is bigger than teacher preparation right so this is really as we think about it it's a human capital systems model. We basically say that what we want to be able to do is to provide all students with deeper and personalized learning. I think that's the right direction we have to be learner centered we have to think about deeper personalized we need to think about how we use technology by building teams of educators with distributed expertise. So it begins with starting to really rethink you asked this question about what are the challenges and all of this and your very very first question which you probably didn't answer. But the very very hardest challenge in this right is to get people to envision something different than the one teacher one classroom model, because I don't care how we prepare them that job is not humanly possible today. And I say a lot that during the pandemic we learned two things. One is that people want flexibility and they don't want to be isolated and teaching is both right it is inflexible and it is isolating. And so our are the work that we are doing now over 70 school systems across the country is to start looking at how we build teams of educators how do you take the people who are there. How do we think about how with the role of teacher preparation and all this how do we think about people who have new roles who have new ways of doing who are these sort of, you know, technicians just like we think about that we see in healthcare, but people who also specialize people Paris who now have specialties they're not underprepared generalists. They actually are trained right to have specialties that they're going in laser focused with jobs, apprentices right that have specialties so now you've taken, you know a couple of years at the university and you're a teacher candidate. Now you are a reading accelerator that's your job and we have a job description for that. And so we start to think about ways that people can can enter the profession we think about community educators and everybody in the community actually know something about how to teach that we that we actually professionalize the profession that we think about specializations built in nine credit hours of specialization in our teacher prep program, because we think everybody needs to have some kind of specialization and oh by the way, it's not just things in education it's things like digital media. It's, it's working with indigenous populations it's all kinds of things across the university that we know right as we see demographics change in kids that we think is important. And then it's also about advancement, and then it's looking at HR system so the other grant that we have is the TSL grant which is actually helping us to work with Mesa public schools right now on really looking at their whole human resource system teacher evaluation, all of those kinds of things right that have been built for a one teacher one cluster model our accountability systems that have been built, pushing us back to that one teacher one cluster model. And we are really really trying to think about the fundamental structures of all that, so that all of these things then can be leveraged, and you think about all the people who could come in and work in teams with distributed expertise. One of the things I love is the way that the Mesa school district has taken the lead with you. You know, I mean I think a lot of times you know all of us talk about probably points of inflection right ways in which we can look at that system and say you know certainly we introduce innovation but it takes partnership, and you really have found a strong partner in the Mesa school district so that you're able to bring your candidates in and and to do this different way I think put much more satisfying way of bringing individuals into the profession. So you know kudos to you and Arizona State. I mean, you know, you know how much we are all buzz is teaching apprenticeships teaching apprenticeships. I think that probably a lot of folks don't necessarily understand what that means I know that you know, Austin P State University real Montgomery school district were the first Department of Labor approved teacher apprenticeship and from there you have taken the ball and run with it. You know have a center at the University of Tennessee Knoxville, but you know try to disassemble this for folks you know what what. What are these efforts really about how have they met the state specific needs of Tennessee. And how do you see this model developing in other states were certainly see that starting to virgin across the country. Yeah, appreciate that it is it is complicated right and so I think you know a lot of the work that we've seen and I think you know we've heard about this from a number of folks. It started a long time ago and it's really about kind of taking the next big step and so we had great leadership in Clarksville Montgomery school district I think this is a really strong example of when there are great seed ideas in our school the state can then take that and make it something bigger and then the federal government can take that and make that something national and so you see that stair step along the way and so we've been really really proud, especially of Clarksville and and what they've been able to do. So for us, it was really about looking at what are the problems that we're trying to solve and in Tennessee we've consistently had 1000 teachers vacancies in the state. So 1000 just over teachers who are on permits or waivers, and that number should be zero. Ideally, that is our goal across the board and so what we had been doing our versions of scholarships, or financial incentives but that wasn't a sustainable way in which to remove some of the barriers into the profession. So by looking at it through the apprenticeship angle we know that then that removes a lot of those financial barriers. So our original way to grow your own 1.0 and 2.0. We now have nine educator prep providers across the state who are participating 200 candidates in addition to the 650 who have already gone through. So, in just a period of three three and a half years, we are cutting our vacancies in half across the state, and now close to two thirds of our districts reported that they did not actually have vacancies. So for us, it has been the school year it is it has been pretty tremendous to see the growth and acceleration and it is possible in a short period of time. We should not set an expectation that doing something bold has to take 10 years for it to work. It means that we have to be thoughtful targeted strategic and urgent, and by having really strong partnerships we've been able to move quite quickly. So for us, from an apprenticeship perspective. We have a number of programs. We've got the BA program, which is kind of the traditional we've got the masters which a lot of our districts like in terms of additional credentialing. And then we're also building out this partnership with our teaching as a profession programs of study in high school. So our future teachers in high school because we know and we've read all the great research coming out of our universities that that students are now making those decisions quite early, not what they want to do but they're, they're removing teaching as an option, much earlier than maybe they would have before. So we have some we have some of our high school programs where they're able to do two years of kind of the initial study and and coursework that you might get an AA degree and some of our early post secondary opportunities in high school and then they're able to transition seamlessly into some of these programs and so it's really about saying whether you're a high school student, a career changer, a retiree, someone who just wants to be a teacher and and they're in their BA program. There has to be a very clearly articulated pathway for all of those folks. So once they decide that they want to be a teacher. The UT Center is actually a wonderful way in which we're trying to centralize this, they're able to fill out a super quick form online they say look here's what we're interested in here's where we want to live. And then we can match that potential future teacher with the school district. That's been game changing for us because it's it's simplifying the process of being able to say I'm a district I need a special education teacher or a math teacher versus just saying hey call your local district and hopefully the match works we can be much more intentional that way. If the school district is in place the district is able to hire that that person as an apprentice and so they are a paraprofessional in a classroom with a mentor or master teacher. They're able to then start coursework at any either UT system or the other ad reps who are participating in the program. They're getting paid a living wage which means that we're moving financial barriers for career changers and those folks who have a mortgage and kids and something else and they can't actually just stop working to go back to school. They're getting paid a living wage that increases as a requirement of being an apprentice every single year so they're getting an increase every year. They're able to do their courses at night or on the weekends. They get incredible help such as tutoring services for the praxis. The great story that I love is. We are removing some of the notion that that just certain kinds of people can be teachers we've got great people that life happened. They're smart and capable and wonderful. And this is their dream, whether that's the custodian or the bus driver the nutrition worker the state home parent, they're able to now do this job that they wanted to do forever and they're phenomenal at it. And so they've been we've been able to help through the apprenticeship work because if the car breaks down if you're a registered apprentice, apprentice dollars actually can cover that. If you're a mom who didn't have childcare to get to school or work, some of the apprenticeship dollars allow you to cover that it just provides a so just a much more incredibly supportive environment for those folks who are making the big leap into a profession that we all know is incredibly important. And so for us, we've seen, obviously, pretty strong success in just the interest. We're seeing our first apprentices in the classroom which is very exciting you get kind of nervous for them. They're they're doing very very well, and most importantly is it is about professionalizing the profession. I know that teachers, we all feel that this is a very hard job and it is a very important job and the way we talk about teachers has got to change. So when you see that I think the apprenticeship model actually really helps to highlight how hard the job is to do well, how important the job is, and ensures that our future teachers are given the structures and opportunities to try and fail in a safe space with a great leader in the classroom who's helping them grow so that on day one, they are ready for our kids. But I think the one thing that I do want to just mention is this idea of we can't just get them in the classroom we got to keep them there. When when I started this job Tennessee at a minimum salary of $34,000. And when you think about that in 2019, and we were now up to $40,000 and we're going to keep going. There's a pretty sizable increase but I think that we have to show the investment, not just in future teachers but we have to show the investment in the entire profession so that folks understand that when they sign up to be a teacher. It's it's, it is service, but it is also something where they will be respected and so this apprenticeship program removes the financial barriers it diversifies the profession. It addresses getting teachers into the jobs where there are vacancies not just teachers into a pool where we don't maybe we don't need any more elementary teachers over here but we need a lot of science teachers we can be much more data driven. And then I think it just opens the door for a lot of folks who maybe didn't think about the profession and for the first time realize they can become a teacher and be really good at it and our kids are better off. And I love about what each of you have said is you really are taking a systems approach you're looking at relationships which are often hard to to build right and and you're building them you're building trust. You're coming up with, you know, innovation is not an overused term. I'm going to alarm myself to make sure I was bringing the panel to close appropriately, but you know some of each of the each of you are doing incredible work. And, you know, right now, I know that we need to wrap up this section of the panel. I had many more questions to ask each of you but I'm certainly, you know, I'm certainly certain that you've given everyone who's in this webinar, an really think about what you're doing and you know we're going to bring Linda Darling Hammond back into our world here to have her summarize your comments please I would encourage the audience if you have more questions of any of our colleagues please do check in with them I know Carol put her email in the chat. I'm sure that the others would welcome your questions and I see Linda has come back on video so welcome Linda. Thank you I am switching places in my den because my battery is running out. I usually see you on zoom you know I like the books in the background but this is how I know you on zoom. Yeah, usually I'm sitting on this couch. So I just I'll make just a couple of comments. One is, as you just already said everybody brings such a systemic approach and I think that's really important because, you know, we in this country can kind of innovate ourselves to failure we have an approach where we're like always starting this new project or this new project funders often will you know give you a little bit of money and then you give you three years to get that thing done and it's very disconnected from the whole context that the root cause analysis tells us we have to solve so I really appreciate the way people are talking about all the components that have to be dealt with in policy and practice. You know the fact that Commissioner Swens said, you know that there should be nobody who's doing a first year of teaching on that first day that we should have that experience base that you know that, however it occurs through deep student teaching residency that people are coming in and they really know how to do this work, and they've seen that full year of teaching unfold in a partnership context with others who can really help them do that. So it's just critically important and then of course, then you named all the other features of the profession that have to be attended to and I really appreciate that. So, in addition to the way we bring people in I really appreciated the way in which Assistant Secretary Rodriguez was talking about. We need to grow lead and learn throughout the profession and I know that your work with teach plus and all the wonderful teachers there really reinforces the, you know, the trajectory of the, the occupation of the profession and how people need to come in in the right ways, with all of those supports in that capacity, and then also be able to grow lead and learn beyond that. And think about all the ways in which the, I know you're thinking about all the ways in which the federal government can support that whole profession, and I really look forward to you know some deeper priorities, you know at the federal level to support this work in the states one of the things we're learning is that when the federal government is connected to what states are doing when we've got that interplay where the work is the federal level is to incentivize and partner and reinforce you can get so much more done than when it's just everybody doing you know individual innovations, all by themselves. And Carol I just so appreciated the way in which you talked about busting out of the egg crate classroom, which we inherited from the factory model, where you know one teacher and each little egg crate doing their own thing and you know we used to have one student teacher with each of those one teachers that we have to conceptualize the school we see this in effective redesign schools, they conceptualize the school as a unit in which teachers are working on shared practices in which teams are sharing students in which differentiated roles are connected, and part of that team that is working with children. And that's really part of getting out of that sort of bureaucratic factory model assembly line approach in which everyone is disconnected doing one thing. The student is not getting a coherent holistic experience, nor is the entering teachers so I think we've put a vision for what the new system of education ought to be on the table. And it'll be fun to hear what Q amp a comes from the audience as they're taking this in. And there is a lot of Q amp a there's Q amp a in the chat. There's Q amp a and the question and answer. So let me see if I can get us started here. I there's a there's a question specifically about. There's a number of questions let's talk about this first there's a number of questions about how we actually retain teachers. So a number of questions in the chat on that and you know each of you have talked about the importance of all of the pieces of pathway right you know Kenny you talked about getting that high school student interested and also perhaps that career changer right and bringing those two into the mix you know Carol you've talked a lot about community educators and bringing in some you know ways in which we can create a more robust team based environment where individuals have agency and Roberta you've talked a lot about how the federal government is supporting. Not just you know addressing the teacher shortage from a preparation perspective but also from a retention perspective so any of you like to just comment on teacher retention at this point since there are so many questions in that regard. I know it's a tough one. Thank you. Are you. Okay. You know just because it's obviously very front of mind for us. We look at kind of retirement eligibility within within our state on top of what we see is kind of normal transition that might happen. And it is something especially when you look at special education. We have a lot of work with teachers, science and math like we have the same vacancies that I think you see across across the country. What we have found and we've done a lot of work with educators in terms of our survey we have an annual survey that we give we have about 72% response rate of educators in the state who participated in annual survey so we have really good data on Tennessee specific educators and it comes down to the things that that aren't going to be surprising right it's compensation. So I think that we're trying to really aim it within the school building and school leadership how they feel and that in those relationships and how much support they get and whether or not they have the resources and that's not just textbooks and pens and pencils and copy paper, but that's also time and I think we certainly heard Linda talk about that earlier but do I have the time to adequately and sufficiently prepare my class room so that when I walk in the door I know I'm giving my students the best education things that I think are really big problems to solve and sometimes a little bit easier than some of the others, but I don't think you can do one or the other if you're not showing due diligence and trying to make the conditions of being a teacher better then it is a really hard sell to try to get people into the profession and so balancing both has got to be a priority and I think certainly coming out of the pandemic I saw a number of questions there. We really have to ensure that we are thinking about all of our responsibility within our school buildings which extends certainly beyond some of the things that we might traditionally talk about. If I could just add one footnote on that part of what Penny is saying is that leader preparation is part of the pathway to teacher retention. We've got to prepare school leaders who are ready to do the redesign of schools. It's not about just making schools, you know, managing the school as it is. It's about designing a new school that's ready for what we can do in this century and what our kids need and of course it's not only that teachers will stay in a school where they feel supported, they have a collegial environment, etc., but they need to be part of that shared decision-making around that redesign. So leader preparation is really a key aspect to teacher recruitment of retention. Yeah, and that's certainly I think what Carol and her team at ASU are doing in terms of really looking at the redesign of how we do the work. Roberto, you had been unmuted. Excuse me. No, it's great, Lynn. I love the conversation. I think this redesign is also about how we think about intentional knowledge and skills and attributes that we're building for our principals and our teachers together to embrace more of a distributed leadership model. Right? How are we thinking about, you know, our teachers not just being deep pedagogists and able to really differentiate their learning, but lead other adults and support. And how do we think, as Linda said, about this differentiated roles and responsibilities being mutually reinforcing and supporting one another in a learning environment for our teachers and for our students? You know, the other thing that I would just add into this is to have the intentionality from a policy perspective of focusing on retention, right? Not just recruitment. We've had national efforts going back. I've been part of many evolutions of federal policy that have looked at the importance of recruitment into the profession. We can, at the district and state level, also think about what are our goals and aspirations for building and supporting a workforce that is diverse and thriving and growing and leading. And the more we can focus on the data points there. And, you know, as Penny mentioned, also have some voices of our teachers reflected in that data, right? That survey. That is, you know, when you talk to our educators, they will tell you what those conditions are that matter most to staying in and thriving in their field, right? So we need to have policy making that is more responsive to that effort, too. Harold, you had unmuted. Do you want to join in here? Yeah, I just want to, I have a caveat to all of this, which is I don't, we've talked a long time about this is a recruitment or retention challenge, right? And I'm not sure that it is. I think it's a workforce design challenge. And I think we have to really think about what we're doing and how we think about that. That if we think that retention is now about keeping teachers in the field for 10 or 20 or 30 years, like we've always thought about teaching, I don't think that's a reality. So the other part of this is how do you build systems for that churn? Because the churn is going to happen. So a first grader, right? My granddaughter is in kindergarten, right? She's got one teacher. If that teacher leaves, there's nobody in that school who knows my granddaughter, right? When she goes to first grade, if she had a team, there's a lot of people who would know, right? And then you're managing, so you're managing that churn as these kids also move. So there's an advantage to starting to think about retention as working condition, but also is the way we think about how teachers work together. So yes, I think we can, I think we can increase retention maybe by a year, maybe two, maybe three. But I don't think this generation is going to stay. I think they're looking for more. And I think we also have to think about advancement. We have to think about team leads. We have to think about, you know, cross team leads, other opportunities, right, for people to advance, not just school leadership. We've said, we've talked about that for a long time. So, so this is about a total restructure, but it's also not thinking about his retention. And it's really thinking about this as a workforce design structural issue, because that churn is going to happen and we can't prevent it. And we're not, if we keep trying to do that and try to keep preventing that, because we want, we're in this one teacher one classroom model, I don't think we're going to, we're going to get there. I'd like to just respond to that by saying that, you know, we do see different attrition rates across the country, just as we see them differently in different countries and so on. So I don't know, we have to accept the notion of churn in the way that it's happening now. You know, there, if you are in the Northeast, people do come in, they want a career in teaching. But I think to your point, teaching can mean leadership roles in the profession, as well as the work that you do initially when you first come into the profession. So I think it's, as you said, it's workforce redesign and the roles that you might take on, which might be roles that take up mentoring and, you know, school redesign and a variety of other things, even including becoming a teacher preparer, should be connected in ways. And I think this is your key point that we're building a coherent profession, a coherent school environment, you know, and a set of options and pathways for people that use their talent and expertise, you know, and that then becomes part of the professional knowledge base and expertise base, rather than the kind of churn we're seeing now, which is in and out, and we lose, you know, all of that knowledge walks out the door, and it doesn't go anywhere to reinforce what we're trying to build. If I can jump in just really quickly, because I agree with that. And I think one of the things to loop to what we've been working with the U.S. Department of Education on, and I don't want to lose the power of the federal relief dollars and what that's been able to do for us to even rethink structuring within school. So you take tutoring, right? Lots of conversation on kind of high doses, tutoring, et cetera, et cetera. What we've been able to do is say, that's, that's great. And if you can hire a future teacher as a full-time employee within the school system, that full-time tutor is now building those relationships with the students in classrooms. There is a natural respect and connection between the teacher, maybe now an apprentice, maybe that tutor is also going to become an apprentice. You've created three layers of professional development and growth, and now three people who are deeply committed to that student. So that when an if that teacher leaves, you now have someone who can fill that vacancy and that child is feeling the continuity of that support. And I think that if we can think differently about how we can layer a person in a classroom and remove this idea that too it kind of grow in the profession means you leave the classroom. Let's actually create some stratified experiences so that people feel that they can grow, they can make more money, they can see professional development, but more importantly that students are seeing the wraparound supports by a number of adults who are there and they feel that consistency day-to-day. So I agree with, I agree with everything that's just been said. It's, I just think the intentional strategy and planning is important to do at a systems level and then really help districts implement that. Yeah. Anyone else want to jump in? This is a great, this is great. I, you know, I don't know if all of you can see this, but there's thumbs up and claps and all these like emojis coming up through as each one of you talk. I think there's a lot of excitement certainly about what each of you have said. I'm going to wrap it up and turn it over to my colleagues at LPI. I want to thank everyone for participating. I think you can see why when I talk to all of these people, I get super excited about the future of the profession and what we can do to create change in the face of what someday seems like undaunting challenges. So thank you everyone. And Steve, I'm going to turn it over to you for some closing remarks. Thank you. Well, thank you so much, Lynn. And I want to take a moment to again thank all of our presenters for joining us today. We appreciate your time and you're sharing your thoughts and creating a vibrant and informative discussion. I'm sure folks will be talking about it for some time as there's a lot to unpack there. I'd also like to thank our attendees. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and that you're leaving with some new understandings and perspectives. We also hope you'll join us for upcoming events in this year's learning cafe series focused on whole child school to soul design principles and teacher preparation soul design principles. As Maria described, these deeper dives into the science of learning and development also highlighting the work of ed prep lab members are meant to inspire broader conversations about and wider efforts to build teacher and school leader preparation aligned with these principles. So in closing, we at ed prep lab have been excited to put on this event and we look forward to future engagement with you. Please feel free to reach out to any of our staff with questions or if you'd like to learn more about ways to become involved with ed prep lab. Recording this webinar will be made available on the ed prep lab website in a few days. Look for an email announcing it when it's up and please feel free to share it widely. Finally, I'd like to mention that a survey will appear in your window when you leave this webinar and we'd appreciate your feedback. We hope you will have a wonderful day. Thank you again for sharing this time with us.