 What says no sound so Mike lighting up on the bottom, right? Okay. They said they can hear us now. Oh, wait wait now They're saying I can't tell which one it is. Can you hear me? So I says now we got it Good deal pretty sure whatever it is. It's just J's fault The sound of silence. Oh, it says we are getting sound now they can hear me Yeah, so they can hear me yesterday. They can't hear you and everybody's frozen He's saying he's sorry He's uh, maybe your headphones. Do you want me to tell him better? Okay Okay, so I want to say thank you so much for having us on I love coming on this channel the modern-day debate and I'm here with Jim majors and Jim and I have chatted before and this Has been a long time coming because we wanted to debate a while ago and we had to cancel an initial plan And so we're here today and it should be really fun and and I'm gonna be the opener with ten minutes To tell you that yes Jesus resurrected and so I'm gonna first maybe turn it over to Jim for a second And see what he's gonna say and then then we'll start He definitely didn't resurrect. Okay. I'm done Okay, so you can see there's already a controversy and so you came to the right place if you want to find controversy This is where it's at. So I'm gonna go ahead and and share my screen. So just let me take one second here I don't I not see the there we go not seeing there Sure, hopefully you can see that. Can you see that now? Okay Okay, so I'm taking the position and I'm gonna I'm gonna imitate what I heard David would say which I really thought was great He said if the uh, he said the big question is did Jesus resurrect and then he said the short answer is yes The long answer is yes. Yes. He did uh, and let's go back and talk a little bit about this So during Jesus's ministry his half brothers including James tried to stop his ministry They thought he'd gone mad and his apostles didn't understand what he meant by rebuilding the temple his body after had been destroyed After three days, but on the road to Emmaus Jesus opened their eyes to the prophecies And they realized there were actually 330 fulfilled prophecies in the old testament and I can talk about that a little bit later today Because I have some very specific ones that you'll find really interesting Such as psalm 22 isaia 53 Daniel 7 daniel 9 Daniel 7 i'm just speaking to mark 1462 where jesus said yes I am the messiah and you will see him coming in the clouds of heaven and sitting at the right hand of the mighty one So we did have confirmation from jesus that yes He is the messiah now during his crucifixion peter denied him as predicted three times And peter and the male apostles except for john were in hiding During his crucifixion because they wanted to avoid a similar death and sol who is also called paul was busy persecuting christians after jesus's Resurrection and he stood at the fate of this feat of saint steven when steven was stoned Now there's an early creed uh from first carinthians 15 it says for what I received I passed on to you as of first importance That christ died for our sins according to the scriptures that he was buried That he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures and that he appeared to sephus And then to the 12 after that he appeared to more than 500 of the brothers and sisters at the same time Most of whom are still living those some have fallen asleep Then he appeared to james then to all the apostles and last of all he appeared to me also as one abnormally born Now this creed it's been agreed upon. Uh, there's pretty much a scholarly consensus from people even like Uh agnostic bart ermann who agree that this was within a few years of jesus's resurrection And so we have these minimal facts surrounding the resurrection. Uh, jesus was crucified under paunch's pilot We've got historian, uh, josephus verifying that women were first to discover his empty tomb and no one claimed Jesus was buried any place else until about 1700 years later His dead body was never produced all four gospels attested the fact that jesus is risen paul who once hunted and persecuted christians indicated he saw the risen christ in the passage I just mentioned along with 500 early christians including paul peter steven and james were often beaten jailed Stoned hung on crosses are beheaded and examples can be found in acts the epistles and in external writings by polycarp Pliny the younger and tacitis and i've got a big long list of all of the extra biblical support We have uh present with me today in case we need to go into that christianity was not legalized until 313 When constant time finally legalized it and it started as a religion of peace growing through peaceful efforts of apostles and disciples And sporadically they were persecuted quite heavily under people such as nero desion and diocletian By 313 christianity had between five and six million adherents and then after it was legalized by constant time around 350 There were around 50 million adherents according to historians So the theories to refute the resurrection are without merit the swoon theory where jesus faked his death has no ancient evidence It fails to explain change in the apostles the twin theory that jesus had a twin has again No ancient evidence and it also fails to explain the change in the apostles meaning the apostles came out of hiding And were willing to preach for jesus over decades despite being burned persecuted skinned Uh crucified and beheaded and all sorts of other awful treatments. Uh, they were buried in a mass grave We have zero ancient evidence supporting the assertion that they were buried that he was buried in a mass grave First chrithians 15 is an early creed that also Points to the idea that he was found in he was uh, he was risen The disciples stole the body of course There's no body so that fails to explain the change in the apostles as well The mass hallucination like dreams hallucinations are internal and they can't be shared Plus jesus appeared to them in many modes where they could see here touch and be in his presence The disciples conspired now we have no Support for that people don't risk their lives for decades for a lie They were uniquely positioned to know the truth Okay, they were positioned to know that and also if you say well miracles are impossible You finally get to this point and you say miracles are impossible yet We have tons of support for miracles even today And i've got a few others besides the one right here with barbra camiskey snider that i can mention today Where barbra was uh bedridden with ms and she heard the voice of jesus say my child get up and walk Now she was in a wheelchair her feet and body were atrophied and immediately she was able to get up and walk She had been in a wheelchair for around seven or eight years And this miracle happened in the early eighties and she's still without ms So it's a a miracle and those sorts of things have been documented by people like craig keener and lee strobel and others So i must ask you a few questions. This is what jim would say How is it possible that a cult inspired by the execution of an obscure criminal in a long vanquished empire came to exercise such a transformative World christianity is the most enduring and influential legacy of the ancient rule according to agnostic tom holland How is it possible that a humble son of a carpenter fisherman a tax collector a tent maker and a few more were able to change the world If a religion is true and god Within the religion is benevolent. Would we expect changes in a world after a son appeared moving humanity closer to the standards of Righteousness that he has said well. Yes. We would expect that and with christianity. We actually have that So let's go and look at this What was said by gamma leal and recorded in the book of acts But gamma leal it was a teacher of the law and a sanhedrin and he says men of israel Carefully consider what you intend to do to these men Some time ago thudas appeared claiming to be somebody in about 400 men rallied to him He was killed all his followers dispersed and it came to nothing after him judas Therefore in the present case, I advise you leave these men alone. See they had captured peter and other apostles Let them go for their if their purpose or activity is of human origin It will fail But if it is from god, you will not be able to stop these men. You will only find yourself fighting against god So did Jesus change the world in ancient times the collective was exalted and individuals were not valued unless they were wealthy Warriors or male female babies were often left out to die of exposure The roman coliseum was a scene where killing was cheered people scorned the losers and the underdogs The poor were considered cursed while the wealthy were considered blessed and few cared about or for the poor Fueled by the example of jesus early christians began helping the poor rescuing babies left out in the streets to die For giving their trespassers building schools and hospitals for all Ending ancient slavery ending the brutality in the coliseum and elevating the importance and value of all as individuals Genesis said we are all made in god's image. This is completely unique to judo christianity There is neither june or gentile neither slave nor free nor is there male and female for you are all one in christ jesus This is amazing this idea of equality came out of christianity You wouldn't find that coming out of something like biology because we of course have Proportional gifts, but the idea that all men are created equally and we hold these truths to be self evident here in the united states And in other places is something that's spurned from christianity even as evidenced in tom holland's book The dominion the moral values of truth love selflessness humility equity equality life and liberty have also sprung from christianity They were present in the world before however, we're discovering the importance of these following the appearance of Jesus We all share this moral duty no matter where we are on the planet All seven major world religions and atheism and humanism have supported this idea that we should follow the golden rule and do It's right for others The u.s. Is the most individualist society today and our values were founded on christian values of industriousness truth equality liberty fairness and life The western world exalts the same values as evidenced by the un International bill of human rights and these values have spread throughout the world Did jesus do the impossible he went against people's expectations rather than appear with power majesty and glory He appeared in a major rather than work as an earthly king Jesus worked as a humble carpenter rather than rub elbows with the Pharisees who are considered the most devout followers of god Jesus rubbed elbows with the sinners rather than call on his followers to do great works He has called on us to have faith in him No other religions are like christianity where salvation is based on faith and grace and not works So in summary we have a consensus agreement on several minimal facts surrounding jesus's resurrection For which the best explanation is jesus resurrected theories to refute these have never answered all of the facts we have So for jim to refute these he needs to address each of the facts that i cited But most particularly the basics so jesus was crucified under potch's pilot His apostles were initially in hiding and they came out and preached for him for decades despite major persecutions And they also said that jesus is risen and we have extra biblical support for this idea that the apostles did make those claims From extremely humble roots jesus transformed the world No other religion has had such a positive impact as humanity moves closer and closer to the discovery of the objective moral standards He has said Thank you It's always is your audio still out Oh Okay, you want me one second. I'm gonna share my screen Um if I can find the button Little button. Where are you? Okay Just share that And full screen that one Okay Okay, so let's see. Let me turn this. Oh well. Where'd it go? Okay, here we go That's not very loud This is uh benny hinn and this is benny hinn's magical jacket Um, as you can see he's just swinging it knocking these people down So you have to ask yourself are these people crazy? Are they are they lunatics? Um, are they are they just lying? Are they are they making all of this up? Um, everybody can everybody be making this up? Uh, or Can it be the lord? I would ask sj. What she would think it is Boom, there he goes again. Look at that That's that's some powerful stuff right there guys Okay, let's see what we got next in here. Oh, we got some more knocking down. Okay All right, sj uses the minimal facts all the time to try and prove that the resurrection is historical Uh yet It's not what convinced her The minimal facts argument Wasn't convincing to her It as a matter of fact it took Jesus making himself obvious to her For her to believe that it's true Uh, so I would ask her that then why do we need the minimal facts? Um, if if If you couldn't reach christ without Um, or with these minimal facts then what makes you think that Somebody else can and it will let's let's look at the these minimal facts um First of all, I would like to note that these these minimal facts are not minimal facts Um, just short and sweet. Let me find it. Where'd he go? Okay I can't find the screenshot that I just took Oh, there he is. Okay. Number one Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate Um, we can see just see this for that Okay, so Jesus died What is that? Well, where is the resurrection in that the resurrection is not anywhere in that? Um Women first discovering his empty tomb Okay, there's no resurrection in that there's no evidence of resurrection What this is is evidence of women discovering a tomb or the claim of women discovering a tomb Um, all four gospels attest to the fact that Jesus is risen Yes And Again, what does that have to do With the actual resurrection itself? We're talking about attestations Uh, now if we won't talk about attestations and about how convincing they can be Can you hear this? Barely All right, let me go back. All right, so this is Gary Habermas And for those who can't hear Margarine does not prove a message Margarine proves that the witnesses believe this that's all martyrdom does Buddhist priests setting themselves on fire to protest Yes, you can't deny the fact that they were appalled So they died for an ethical reason When the earliest disciples died for their message It doesn't prove their message when the earliest disciples died for their message This does not prove their message. This is gary Habermas speaking But you're right. They put themselves in a position to say I've satisfied myself that they put themselves in a position to say i've satisfied myself There's an update here. Now you say well, do we have evidence? Do we have evidence for their martyrdom for their martyrdom? That we know that all the early apostles died as martyrdom. I would not say I would not say That we know all the early apostles died as martyrs Okay, so You heard it from the man himself Uh, now we've got Josephus. We've got Tassus. We've got sweetonius These are the reason that um, sg likes to name Paul and James and peter and steven is because these are the only people who can be Who can have anything linked to them within the first century? Everybody else is a second century third century and above and beyond but freaking buzz light-eared um, so we've got Tassus Tassus was born in 56. Tassus was born 20 years after jesus died 20 something years after jesus died Uh, josephus died 20. Uh, i'm sorry. Um, uh, a few years Josephus was born a few years after jesus died uh, suetonius was born What 30 years after jesus died? So and these are the earliest historians we've got two roman historians tassus and suetonius And we've got a jewish historian josephus Now they all have something else in common Something else that's all recorded and i'll give you a hint He healed the lame and he made the blind see Anybody No, it's not jesus No, it really isn't jesus This is vespacean Now vespacean Was born in nine c And he died in 79 so before he died all these historians Were at least 10 years old The other ones were in their 20s and 30s. Uh, it would be uh, tassus and suetonius respectively so They would at least be able to be an eyewitness and their accounts would be Far more miraculous than the accounts of jesus. Um, if we have multiple attestations so What the heck Sorry Okay, let's see where's my Okay, josephus This is josephus's uh Um account of vespacean. He says you are to be caesar obespacean. This is a prophecy He's actually prophesying. He says an emperor you and this your son Bind me now still more securely and keep me for yourself for thou o caesar are not only lord over me But over the land and the sea and all the human race and i certainly I and certainly i deserve to be punished by closer custody than now if i fabricate anything concerning god And this is josephus okay Now we've got tassus in histories for uh Uh 81 81 It says one of the common people of alexandra somebody who was well known for his blindness Uh came in and he threw himself at vespacean's knees and he says just begging him groaning This heal me heal me please and uh, and he was doing this because uh, he was being advised by the god sarapas Um, who was the uh at the at the time it was the most popular uh popular god being served Believe it or not. It wasn't jesus or yaway um And whom this nation devoted uh as it is to many superstitions Uh worships more than any other divinity. Okay, he begged this patient that he would deign to moisten his cheek And eyeballs with his spittle so he's just begging him just please just spit on me Just give me some spit on my cheek and give me some spin and spit on my eyeballs Uh and another person came in with a diseased hand at the council Um from the same god He was praying that either his limb fall off or it be fixed and so vespacean Uh he figured that he he was having some good good enough luck lately that uh, nothing could go wrong and uh that Everything's going right, you know, uh with the the prophecy of josephus being fulfilled and all uh, which uh, sorry I don't mean to kill the ending um So he does what he can and he accomplishes what is required The hand was instantly restored to its use and the light of day again shown upon the blind uh and But these persons uh actually present um multiple attestations Both of them facts even now when nothing is to be gained by falsehood That is what tacitus said so tacitus is Confirming just essentially what what paul does this this is this is the truth and what modus does You know this is the truth because because I I wrote it so we can trust them right because it's Intacitus it's in josephus if only it was in suetonius, right? Well, guess what it isn't suetonius and he says the exact same thing Not even verbatim. So he's not he's not uh, he's not just doing it verbatim It's actually a lot more extensive. I just didn't want to put it all on here and read it But he adds a little caveat at the end. He says they who were present relate both these cures Even at this time when there is nothing to be gained by living So, uh, I'm sorry by lying So there's nothing that they can gain by lying now, right? Not nothing that anybody can gain but yet everybody who was present says yes Both of these things happened and this is what a historian says a contemporary historian more contemporary than jesus Now think about that These men were alive during the time of aspation They didn't know jesus they never met jesus. They didn't mean to resurrect at jesus They heard stories from people who had stories and stories from stories but So I find that to be hilarious Um, and I wanted to touch on one other thing just as since we're talking about, um Our reliability Why did the women bring spices to the tomb? Uh in uh in mark it says that mary I went too far It says that mary magdalene and mary the mother of joseph's were looking on to see where he was laid So they watched joseph uh josephus. I didn't mean to sort of tie joseph. They watched josephus Wrap him in a linen cloth, right? They watched him Moving So by by linen cloth he laid it down. They saw him wrap him and they saw him put him in the tomb But it says that they bought spices so that they might come and anoint him Okay Luke 23 56 through 24 one Talks about the women again Uh, they saw where the body was laid Then they returned with the prepared spices and perfumes And oh, sorry they they returned and prepared spices and perfumes and on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment But on the first day of the week they came to the tomb to bring the spices. So we're talking days later But so it agrees with mark and that the women witnessed joseph lying Laying the lin and wrapped jesus in the tomb but in luke the women Don't wait until the day after the Sabbath to buy spices and instead they returned to prepare the spices anointment that day And then they rest on the Sabbath to return the day after But but this passage also suggests that the women were going to the tomb the day after the Sabbath for the purpose of preparing the body with spices Which is a ritual that was done before burial uh, no later than or No sooner than three hours before burial Uh, because it was done not only to purify the body But to act as a perfume to cover the smell of decomposition in the hours leading up to the burial So the family didn't have to smell all of that But jesus was already buried He didn't have a funeral. He didn't require purification. He was jesus And there was no reason to mask the smell of decomposition as he was already in the tomb Which was the whole point is getting him there smell free Uh, that would be like burying a loved one on one day and then returning days later for the body digging it up So you can embalm it That doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it now we got one one more account to read and that's the account in john And this is where we see nicodemus says nicodemus who had first come to him by night also came bringing a mixture of myrrh and allows About a hundred pounds weight So they took the body of jesus and they bound it in linen Wrapping uh, wrapping it with the spices as is the burial customs of the jews So Who's who's gonna do this if the women witnessed this happen? Let's just say that mark mathew and luke All forgot to uh to write it to write about this they all forgot. Oh, we forgot to write about the spices guys You know start sorry But john doesn't john doesn't write about the spices But it doesn't matter because the women would know the women would see a hundred freaking pounds of myrrh and allow So I don't find that to be historical it's uh chronological errors and there's all other kinds of you know I mean if you can't see the error in this then you have a severe bias And There's a problem. I knew that sj was going to use this This specific one Because About this time last year Actually, it's been over a year now back in january of 19 She uh sj came on to um Onto a debate or discussion with paulgea And they had to talk about What was um What was justified and being Being said here and what is embellishing what is going too far what is inflating it Basically giving it more than it's worth and they went through it and sj had agreed to amend it to change it But this one's so much more Convincing because it it adds in things that that you just had to concede. So let's like jesus was crucified under paunches pilot therefore therefore resurrection Women discovered the the tomb therefore resurrection all four gospels attest to the fact that he is risen therefore resurrection paul Along with the 500 whoever they are We have no clue who they are because the gospels don't mention the 500 paul's the first one to mention them including the 12 apostles Which there weren't 12 that he could appear to because there were only 11 because Because judas had killed himself and matias had not yet been appointed until after the ascension And then you have the early christians including paul peter steven and james who were beaten jailed and stoned and hung on crossers Well, yeah, but guess what? They knew who jesus was Jesus told him so many times He's a living bread that came down out of heaven if you didn't want to eat to this bread You'll live forever blah blah blah the living father sent me i live because of the father So he who eats me blah blah blah eat me blah blah blah? and then in jawn Peter answered him said lords to whom shall we go you have words eternal life 69 giggity. I didn't mean to leave that in there We have believed and have come to know that you are the holy one of god This is before he dies Before he's supposedly resurrected. There is no mystery john knows exactly who he is peter knows who he is everybody freaking knows that he's the holy one of god And with that i surrender to the rest of my time All right. Thanks so much for that jim. I believe My mic is now working So we should be good to go there. Hang on one second. Let me unshare jim There we go. All right, perfect All right, let me know i've seen tog and uh, brother john and sarah and a bunch of people in the chat Let me know if my mic is now At 100 percentile Whether g or gentile All right, so it does like it's working and i will we'll kick it over to sja to start off our open discussion If you have any questions Make sure and at me at converse contender So i i want to thank jim for doing his homework and looking up my last debates and going through my stuff I really appreciate that jim because yes, you knew i was going to use the minimal effects and i really can't resist But i did notice that you weren't able to look at all of the middle effects and give me a best explanation for them I noticed that you went through them individually and tried to refute them individually But you have to take those as a whole even if you just take a couple of them and explain the big question of why the apostles Did what they did over a few decades when we have attestation within and outside of the bible that yes They said that they saw the risen christ and they were uniquely positioned To know whether or not what they were saying was true But i want to also point to something you said yes I the the idea of the minimal facts being convincing to me and bringing me to christianity As i mentioned and you confirmed jesus is what brought me to christianity in 2012. He started Becoming very obvious in my life where i started noticing I could say he's probably been obvious all along, but i just started noticing in 2012 I started having spiritual experiences and i had not even Investigated the christianity at that point. I had never even heard of the minimal facts It wasn't that i wasn't thinking that they were not convincing i'd honestly never heard of them I learned about that when i interviewed gary haver mass on my channel not too long ago So you know that experience the reason that you believe in the in the resurrection or was it looking at these minimal facts I I believe in the resurrection because of uh, I would say a cumulative case, but I believe in jesus because he made himself obvious to me Okay, and and you're right. I didn't get to get to go through all of them just because I didn't have didn't have time um So but the the point that i was making is that Some of these they they seem really Really misleading and really dishonest and they really kind of Posed themselves as something they're not like number six christianity was not legalized until 313 No religion was quote-unquote legalized now it it had it's uh, they had some legal status taken away For a period of 10 years, but but that's it um The same has happened to the jews. In fact, the jews have gone through a hell of a lot worse. In fact, if you, uh, read josephus's writings, uh, whenever whenever Vespasian brought back all those jews Um, you know, I mean, who do you think built the coliseum? It wasn't christian slaves You know, it was jewish slaves So let me ask you this and you brought up vespasian a few times. We're um, we're the pre people called best who are following vespasianity Does that matter? I mean, there are no Just like actually nothing to do with the historicity. You know, just like gamma leal pointed out if the faith is phony It would diminish and nobody's heard. I mean, who's heard of vespasian beside the few uh, Relate, you know, maybe a few scholars. We don't have a vespasianity We do have christianity and christianity is uh, that actually you're pointing out to vespasian actually supports my Entire claim on what's changed the world due to jesus because we don't know Which set but which sect of christianity because uh, it it fell apart christianity fell apart really quick. In fact um, we know very early on uh during the pauline epistles that paul's are going around having to fix up churches um because of of gnostic influence because of of uh, of other other influence from Um, whether they're they're esoteric jews or or or whatever um christianity was not a a set religion early on christianity did not Come about as a set religion for hundreds for another at least 200 years Well, we didn't have legal protections early on so yes christianity. I might have nobody had legal protections Well, we didn't have legal protections, but the idea well the idea jim though And you said that there were only a few people who were mentioning uh, this i'm going to go ahead and screen Share my screen again because you said there were only a few people who were mentioning the martyrdoms And I wanted to go into that and I also wanted to go into what you just saw my first entry With well, I also i'm actually you've missed a couple though still so I want to also talk about um I'm also going to talk about the fact of of the jewish people being persecuted. You are completely right about that in fact No, like plenty the younger for example And what and what does plenty say about it plenty was born in 61 plenty talks of of christian people being persecuted Okay, does he name anybody? Does he have a time or a place? But I the idea will we also have we have he doesn't Okay, here. Let me just bring up a slide here. Hold on one second And what do you think was the fact that tacitis josephus uh, suetonius um, uh, casis dio They all talk about this these miracles And the divinity and that and that evestation is in fact the messiah Um, well, where is it now? I mean my answer is if it was true just like amalia said we would still be following vespacian today But but you find these extra biblical sources to be convincing for your position yet We have two roman historians here tacitis and suetonius who say Yeah, he was the uh, the The the jewish messiah, you know, I mean so here's here's what we know so we have two people who said he was a jewish messiah clearly he wasn't because uh We don't even have him written into the talmud. I would imagine or if he is written into the talmud Actually, he is He's written in the talmud. Well, it's Okay, so I was wrong about that but that's that's here's what we have so we have uh outside sources confirming a number of different facts about jesus's life Which I have up here on the screen We also have uh theory other people who've mentioned jesus uh, the beheading by nero was documented by origin tertulian Dionysus of Corinth the martyrdom of jesus half brother james was documented by josephus the earliest though And clement of alexandria peter was the earliest mention Was the earliest mention of the martyrdom I've got that coming just give me a section So peter was crucified upside down as confirmed by usibius the first church historian in his book ecclesiastical history And also Dionysus of Corinth tertulian and origin Yes, and how and how long are they were they born when this happened? Were they were they alive were their grandparents alive when this happened? I actually have I have that so here's josephus He was born in 37. He also Recounted for example james jesus his half brother We also have tacitus as you mentioned and he pointed out the fact that christians suffered the extreme penalty Or christus suffered the extreme penalty and christians were suffering under nero Tacitus basically said that christians were mocked They were covered with the skins of beasts torn by dogs and perished nailed to crosses He cared about accuracy. We've got a lot of well He also talks about the jew's persecution Have you read anything about the jew's persecution or have you read anything about the persecution of the of the roman pagans? Or the greco-roman pagans But the the greco-roman pagans and the jews weren't saying that they had a messiah in jesus So i'm we're today we're talking about the resurrection of jesus. So i'm just providing support for christianity So right, but we're talking about persecution still just the same people are still getting martyred Right and and any of you think that because Because they're christians then suddenly that means that that their leader is is is correct Well that people were getting martyred because they were saying that jesus was the risen christ And the fact is that they could they could renounce jesus and some of them did Not the apostles, but there were some people over the centuries who renounced jesus and we can see that documented Even by planning the younger for i had no doubt that uh, we have christians those who confessed I interrogated a second and third time threatening them with punishment those who persisted So some still persisted that they were going to believe jesus. He ordered executed We have support from trajan also with this planning interaction We have ballas talking about the earthquake. That's a little going off here Um, we also have marabar sarapian talking about jesus being executed Lucian, I know this is in the second century, but we have also support for jesus's execution We have kelsis on supporting the idea that jesus proclaimed to be god and he had some miraculous powers We have satanians as you mentioned Noticing the punishments on christians Okay, but we'll look at the early its pawns tacitus. What does tacitus say about the resurrection? Well, jim, that's an argument from silence. No, no, no, no i'm no i'm i'm asking does any any historian Mention the resurrection or the uh, the the saints coming out of the out of their graves So We have what you're doing is actually a classic example of the argument from silence because You would assume that christians who had discovered the resurrection and acknowledged the resurrection or people who had discovered that Would become christians so the fact that they just happened to be christians people like origin and others Dozens and the fact that people are non christians who are not talking about the resurrection We would expect that because had they supported or bought into this idea of a resurrection They likely would have become christians and then you would say that now that they're now that they're christians that we Should discard everything that they've said to us Well, then maybe jesus should have appeared to somebody who was not a believer in him already. Well, he did paul Oh, no, that was a bright light the the the the account of paul's encounter with jesus and any of them in the in the new testament any of them in the risen jesus's um, uh post mortem encounters Completely different. There is no just a blinding light and and just a disembodied voice um that nobody else can see uh or hear it's um It's not like that in the in the in the new testament It's very clear that paul did not have the same kind of experience that uh, the apostles did and He's again paul's the the the first one to mention the 500 Who are the 500? Why don't we have accounts from from the 500? So we have enough within the 500 he mentioned the apostles he mentioned that he appeared to he specifically mentioned peter He appeared to be a possible part of the 500 Well, well, that's the the thing is jim because we don't have the names of the 500 What we do have that paul did specifically i don't want 500 i just won't Well, what we do have in that verse jim is we have uh paul saying that he appeared to specific people and the particular people He named were deniers like peter had denied jesus and he was in hiding We have his half brother who basically went out and tried to stop his ministry paul pointed out that jesus appeared to these people who were skeptical and denying his christianity or his uh His divinity and then they knew who he was They seem to do miracles. They see him raise Lazarus Paul said himself that jesus appeared to him in first carinthians 15 And it's also documented by luke in the book of acts and how does he describe that jesus appeared to paul? Who was and how does he describe it? Does he walk with him does he can you see the holes in his hands? Well, we know that the people the apostles attested to that when jesus appeared the apostles did i'm talking about paul Paul didn't mention that but if he did see that just because he didn't mention a blinding light and a voice that he could not see anybody That's because he had been blinded around the time when this all happened and then when his uh His scales came off a few days later miraculously. That's when he went out and he fast didn't preach for jesus That sounds like something that'd be really really um, uh, it's really familiar to people who would have known the the old testament somebody who would have been um, uh Of the Pharisee mindset, right? but Is there anything in the new testament about uh about that kind of encounter with jesus a blinding light anything It's it's the fact is though That jim is paul um is making a lot of attestations all throughout his epistles that jesus appeared to these people and jesus appeared to him Now he didn't say he actually said He explained in first carinthians Plains, you know, you know, I can go on online right now and I can show you that Washington state has had over 30,000 bigfoot sightings since 1970 and you know what just the other day a group of people Witness bigfoot and they didn't wait 20 years to report it. They reported it immediately Uh, we and we have so many multiple attestations and we have multiple attestations here of uh, of uh of vespation performing miracles We have suey tonga saying um that that it was true that that we have other people who witnessed it and they say that it's true So how is that any different than your 500? Well, let's go back to I think what you were kind of getting a little bit here is you were talking about the Reliability of the bible essentially. I feel like you're you're saying No, well, like the light but then you're you're doubting the Not really. Well, what i'm what i'm talking about is the uh The the favoritism you you putting more um more authority In the bible and therefore it takes precedence immediately. I like it. I felt like you haven't even considered Vespasian's miracles being real Well, I don't think many of the world is and that probably tells us that it's not divinely inspired How do you determine that? Wouldn't we assume that if you're divinely inspired that more people would even have heard of vespasian It's kind of there's nothing that's called vespasianity. I think it's kind of So many people have heard of I've heard of vespasian. What do you what do you mean in the world have heard of jesus today? I mean, I would say the vast majority in the world if not 99 of people have heard of jesus. I learned about vespasian in my ninth grade So well, let me let me talk about what when we talk about whether or not Uh, the claims of christianity are accurate somebody might say well, let's go to what the agnostic people say Like what does bart ermann say about christianity and whether that's agnostic. We go to the biblical scholars Okay, well bart ermann is one of the biblical scholars and here's what he said and I think I've got this up on the screen So you guys can see it He said bruce netzger is one of the great scholars of modern times and I dedicated the book to him Because he was both my inspiration for going into textual criticism and the person who trained me in the field And even though we may disagree on important religious questions He is a firmly committed christian and I am not we're in complete agreement on a number of very important historical and textual Questions if he and I were to be put in a room and asked to hammer out a consensus statement on what we think The original text of the new testament probably looked like there would be very Few points of disagreement maybe one or two dozen places out of many thousands The position I argue for in misquoting jesus does not actually stand at odds with professor's med school's position That the essential christian beliefs are not affected by textual variants in the manuscript tradition of the new testament The essential christian belief The belief in the resurrection that is the essential christian belief and that is something that the belief is not affected It's not saying that that belief is true. It's talking about the manuscript tradition So talking about the textual variants It's not it's saying that these these core tenets aren't part of the variance But it will be some things like the long ending of mark things like the johannin comma things like the prick api adults Aray the things things of that nature that that aren't in the oldest manuscripts But still don't affect the core doctrine Yeah, the bottom line is the core doctrine of jesus resurrection is unaffected and the and in the originals according to barth urman What did gary habermas say gary habermas said that Belief does not make it true Well, because gary habermas is bringing up a very logical point Thank you for bringing that up and reminding me that what gary habermas did that's pretty important if you think about He's just saying that today's martyrs for example If people talk about the martyrs a lot of time they try to compare today's martyrs to the early martyrs in christianity and they might say, okay Well, the muslims Decided that they were gonna Did you not hear habermas? That's exactly what he did So well, that's the point because the muslims decided to fly into the world trade center Doesn't mean that a la is true because the muslims beliefs that a la is true The difference is is the early christians actually saw the risen jesus No one has seen a la and so when you try to compare today's modern martyrs who only have a belief system Not necessarily a sighting The early martyrs actually had a sighting Actually, there were several sightings people saw mohammed mount baruch and Right up to the moon and cleave it in half people witnessed this and they they and they died for these beliefs Well, I think we have enough I mean, I don't have enough information on on the muslim faith to discount it with the exception of one thing The big exception of the muslim faith that I think is discounting it is the fact that they denied that jesus I mean mohammed made it really unclear as far as Whether or not jesus was redirected because he claimed that god took jesus to heaven prior to the resurrection And for that reason alone And the support that we have even in ancient roman greek jewish and all sorts of other places to jesus's resurrection To the crucifixion and to the belief that the apostles claim the resurrection I think that alone tells us that uh, the muslim faith is off I mean it's written 600 years after jesus resurrection and essentially he just denied that jesus was even crucified And it's almost 2000 years after jesus's death And he has not returned in this generation that It's time for the generation to be over sj. There is no generation Jesus was a generation everybody Everybody who listed did jesus speak everybody who was at the at the sermon on the mount They all expected jesus to be back within one of their lifetimes one of their lifetimes If as a matter of fact the 500 that is the a literary device That they that they put in there in order for them to say hey There are there are these these other people but lucky for them none of those 500 could ever refute it because Nobody knows who the 500 are and you can't claim to be one of the 500 and then claim to be offended So they said some of them who are who are still still alive That's holding on to that to that hope. It's like crap. It's getting to the end of the first century Jesus hasn't returned All these people are getting old We have to figure something out Okay, let me let me back up what you just said So you just mentioned something really important and the fact is that paul When he was preaching first Corinthians when he was writing first Corinthians He pointed out that yes some people were alive and some were dead And one of the great things about that is that verifies the validity of what he was saying because he could have had people Discounting what he was saying Who would discount it wait wait wait wait also? I want to mention the other thing that you just mentioned as far as um Actually, you don't understand what you're saying who would discount that Nobody could why wouldn't they if they didn't believe if they were skeptics back then and they would say Wait a second way to say we're calling on you this we don't believe this kind of stuff If we would have heard that we didn't hear anything like that instead What we're hearing is that paul had people around him who were around at the time when jesus resurrected And who are also witnesses and if if he didn't have 500 witnesses somebody could have said hey, there weren't 500 witnesses You're lying nobody knows sj. Nobody knows who these 500 are none of them knew So how are they going to go out and ask them if they don't know Paul had people around who were alive to testify against him if he were lying about 500 He had people who would testify against him There it could have been a lot of people there could have been people Who who would who would testify against him and say I didn't see him appear before 500 people There could be a million people who said he didn't appear before 500 people because they weren't there You weren't there then you can't report on it jim you could have had joe c fits or tacitists or any other hostile witnesses to christianity Well, no you couldn't because nobody knows the historicity of the 500 who are the 500 That's a really that's a really It really doesn't matter who the 500 are Yes, it absolutely does it matters just as much as as as paul saying who disappeared to first And never mentioning mary. Okay. I want to get to your generation Issue too because you mentioned the generation and it's really important that people know the word the word You are you are right in some ways definitely it's evident in the bible that the apostles did think that jesus would be coming back In in the same generation in their generation But the word that it was used in the text is genea which refers to a generation or an era We could still be in that same generation if you think about it that way So we could still be you know 2000 years later in the same generation as as they were so How if you refer to us as an era well, it's the christian It's it's basically and that reminds me actually just reminding me of something really good So that reminds me of What is an era because there's nothing in the bible that says that a period of religion is a generation So the word genea though could refer to an era an era could be referred to an era But by era it means a period of time It's a set period of time But there is no no set period of time so in other words if if jesus said something like Something cryptic with numbers and some sort of uh, you know Something along those lines Then maybe we could say that an era means this But when he's using in his context in his context this generation shall not pass He means these people living today like your your children um You know Will will be here your children will witness this but uh every The people who are standing here some of you May not die until i return that is a generation. There are so many reasons to suggest that a generation means The generation living That i don't see how you can feel at all justified in saying that that oh well Generation it doesn't mean that it just means like the christian era. It just means 2000 This is 2000 years. So it's it's fine because you know people have been saying it's been 500 years It's been fine. It's 600 years. It's been fine 700 years been fine 1100 years 1400 years It's all been fine and it's still fine. When is it not fine? So I I just want to point out what's what was the jewish people believed in okay So there were three periods of time that the jewish people referenced and in the early they referenced a period of 200 Actually, it was three periods of 2000 years. So there was a early 2000 years. There was a second 2000 years After which jesus was supposed to come and there was a their savior was supposed to come And then there was a third period of 2000 years and I think this is in I don't have the exact I got a double check where this is but I believe it's in sandhedra 98 a but I could I got a double check that They believe that the earth was formed 4000 years before before the end and I knew that they had about 2000 years left Well, that's one of the things is they were wondering in the first century They were wondering why their savior had not come because they've realized that this was the end of a 2000 year period Well, right now we're in the middle of another 2000 year period After the messiah came and what's really neat about this is that's eight and it never has 8 000 been the belief No, it's actually 6000 No, that's the the belief is in from 6000. That's the end of it So no, we're in the last set of 2000 years essentially According to the Early, right, but the 2000 years is supposed to be the kingdom on earth And that has not happened yet jesus has not returned. So there's a huge gap here So are you saying that that it's it's it's three sets of two Or or sorry two two sets and then a big gap and then another set of two So I'm saying no, I'm saying that there was no gap So it's two sets. I'm trying to find the exact quote here And I can't believe I can't find it in my slides because I could have sworn I put it in here While you're looking for that I just want to mention that we're we're going to go for about another five minutes or so and then we're Going to hop into the q&a So if you have any questions, just tag me at converse contender and we'll and we'll get into that here And just about five minutes or so Yeah, yeah, we can we can actually go ahead and go I had to be somewhere at uh at at two Yeah, I didn't realize that we were uh going that long. Sorry All right, no problem. All right, so we'll jump straight in. Uh, looks like We'll start with a Super chat here One sec while I pull this up Do do do and sorry about all the audio issues. I'm not sure you buy a A brand new gaming laptop in us and you'll know how to work it But um, that's not always the case. So first up a super chat from former lead singer of nickleback steven stein for two dollars What a douche I love that one. All right, so jim majors mustache converted to christianity Yes, yes it did and then it took over It's a fact so Secondly, we have a super chat from florida man. Thank you so much for your super chat florida man. I have seven books providing I'm sorry. I don't have my reading glasses. Um, I have seven Books proving harry potter. Is he real? I guess that one's for sj No, he's not he's fictional Because it's not jesus the genre of the harry potter books are his fiction It's different than the genre of the bible. But if it was jesus instead of harry potter, it'd be divine revelation So you say All right, so next we have a five dollar super chat from stupid whore energy. Thank you so much sarah for your super chat It says why did paul send the slave onesmus back to his master? I'm guessing sorry sj as well Why did paul send the slave onesmus back to his master? I believe she's referring to the philemon letter Yeah, yeah, I'm you know, I'm not sure why paul sent uh onesmus back I I do know that he did want onesmus to be treated as a brother And that actually was pretty great because that spoke to the the kind treatment that jesus advocated for slaves Okay, we'll move on. I think onesmus was uh either on the road Uh was either a slave. I mean, I'm sorry a prisoner or uh was another some other bad circumstances, but uh Yeah, it was it was essentially as as a way to Fix things with the clausian church. It was like a Um, uh, basically a gift. That's what it was We'll move on to stolen earth says fresh j as soon as it becomes it became legal is when christian started their campaign of Convert by force or die recorded accounts of by the people who were victimized Yes, it never did did they um trash the the house churches and and break, you know, all of the the uh, The all the all the little ritual places and the altars and things like that You know that that's just not something that they did that they respected each other's religion But but that's exactly what happened when christians When when they started Persecuting the greek or roman pagans Destroyed their their altars their their temples It was awful. So yeah, so we have we definitely have examples of bad actors in christianity over the centuries And so you're pointing to some of the things that happened in the medieval times and around then and we definitely had uh the crusades We've got a lot of no not medieval. It's actually before jesus So we have examples of bad actors during that time Certainly and we have examples of that and just about every faith and of course And no christian today is saying at least any christian that i've heard of worth their salt is not saying that Oh, what they did was right. Let's go trash temples of other faiths and things like that That's absolutely wrong. So we would condemn them But my main point was talking about the first few hundred years of christianity where the christians Were the ones being persecuted and where they had no power no glory Uh, no material reasons to follow all right Nope, all right. Thanks so much for that. We've got a five dollar super chat from florida man Thank you again so much for your super chat says Here's five dollars for the quagmire reference. Jim's mustache won this debate a rat All right Yeah, i must ask you a question Giggity you So, um, we have um a two dollar super chat from kent hopin cpa. Thanks so much for your two dollar super chat Oh, i need to do my taxes right so, uh, he says God's real he wears a number 15 and is the qb in kansas city Is that shoes or I believe he's uh referring to the quarterback for kansas city chiefs. Oh, yeah. Oh, I got you. I got you I'm not sure how to pronounce this next person's name arne Rorvik sends in I believe this is norwegian 50 norwegian Uh, I don't remember what they had francs or no, they don't have francs. They have I forget what they are But anyway, thank you so much for that. Um question for sj Do you think jesus is watching you right now? Uh, yes, I think he's watching all of us right now Great, he has this jam Great, this person has a another chance This person had another question question for sj again. Do you think that you are a Quote-unquote rich man relative to the rest of the world Yes, most people in the united states are rich relative to the world Yeah, thank you so much for that. Um, the same person says again, uh question for sj Do you think jesus would allow you through his rich man? needle-eye Well the verse right after that is nothing is impossible with god There you go Do you mind if I ask you a question? Sure If if you were asked to to recant your belief would you if you were faced with with death? No, I wouldn't So if it's possible for you to face death Without seeing the risen jesus yourself Why can't the disciples also do that? Well, I have I have actually in the type of spiritual experiences I've had I've pretty much seen him. So it's just it's I don't really want to go into that but I've you sound like paul did he's it? Well, he's appeared to me in dreams. Um, he's appeared to me in a vision once and Yeah, I've heard his audible voice one time in 2016. So I I can't deny him I would never hear that he really sounds like morgan freeman No, it doesn't he sounded it. He actually had a really like very Reasoned voice. It's funny when people talk about the voice of reason because that's exactly how I would describe it It was a male voice, obviously That's not what you would expect Am I not doomed? Because I have faith. I think that's all I need to do So How much testimony does it take to estimate that the laws of physics have four gallons? For and that's one of the things that um I mean, I think that's a really good question if we're looking at miracles I think that when you first showed benny hen, I thought that was pretty good that jinn started with benny hen because I actually look at that kind of stuff and I say wait a second Is that I mean come on. It's just I have a hard time buying that kind of stuff when I see that Do you think that they they're lying or that they're in on it or what? No, I think that I just don't really believe what benny hen's doing is spiritually guided I'm sorry benny hen fans. I mean, I probably wouldn't you agree that would have to be like either liar lord or lunatic For jesus no for for the magic jacket For the magic is that what he calls it magic jacket? That's what he calls it. That's what I call it. I just don't know what else to call it Um, but but how else would you explain that? Well, I I mean, I hate to call him a liar, but I kind of feel like I don't I don't It's not him though. It's the audience Let me just say that I'm very skeptical of that I would have to I would have to go there and witness it myself and I would have to witness it in myself And if I didn't see myself having some sort of miracle happened at benny hen's place Or somebody I knew closely like with some sort of disability Who went with me and then suddenly that disability were cured in that case Then I would believe it, but I have to have the evidence myself in that particular case in the benny hen case So if I've seen that kind of evidence Maybe I'm they can't hear you cc. So I'm just I'm going to repeat the question Well, they hear me now. I had to figure out Mike. So yeah, that's what I was about the day I was just going to repeat the question was Was from Jared and it's how much testimony does it take to demonstrate the laws of physics have been violated? But it more important is a bat at my school just A bat town Oh, wow Like a louisville don't eat it. That might have been what started the corona virus from what I heard How is this possible? I look over and I'm like, jeez. There's a seriously a bat right here Like a rat with wings. Yeah, it's just spreading this way than like move over a little bit. Anyway, um next question We have brother john says How many years must go by before a generation passes sj? I see it. Well, you give it. Let's look at this So the earth is 4.5 billion years old and humans appeared according to different estimates somewhere around 200 000 years ago And then we hear written history So in written here 3 we've got self starting about 10 000 years ago and then we have this idea of The last 2000 years and so I would say that Given the fact that the population reference era says that 57 of the population of 108 billion people who've walked the planet Have walked after the year 2000. I'd say that that this is a very short condensed period of time in which we have The majority of people have now been aware of Jesus and if we go longer period of time We'll see how long this can go but given the 4.5 billion year age of the earth. I think a very 2000 years is pretty small All right. Thanks so much for that. So, um Thanks for that question from brother john Sorry, this bat is trying to take off work. Okay. We got a question from d6 That's a uh for 100 czk whatever that currency. It's a check. Uh, a check co co a check Konuk corona Of I think we got a check Awesome. So question for sj If I go and investigate all major religions what should my What should be my consistent way to distinguish right Right one from false Well, that's a that's actually a good question because the first thing is I would look at the I would look at the cosmological argument For god and I would realize this idea of everything that it begins to exist has a cause the universe began to exist Therefore the universe has a cause and then if we backtrack a little bit more we might say the cause must be Transcendental to the universe and it must also be very powerful and personal and intentional and that rules out the eastern religions And then I would say um the experience that we have with jesus christ indicates that god is very personal As they would rule out So now I'm all the way leadled down to christianity and there could be some other Different faiths that I haven't mentioned that are that are not as big as those big ones the bigger faiths in the world But I would say just those that reasoning alone would bring us to christianity Thanks so much for that sj. We have a question from what the faith says Jim many people have died for their belief in jesus and his resurrection How could it not be true when so many people were willing to die for it Well, that's just a thing just like gary heppermess said it's all about your personal level of conviction Just like the monk who doused himself in gasoline and set himself on fire to protest the vietnam war It it it was It was a great experience and I think it's a great experience And I think it's a great experience and I think it's a great experience and I think it's a great experience and I think it's a great experience to protest the vietnam war it it it was He was at at a point to where that is what he believed that that he needed to do And the problem is is that there's there's another little motivation in there Is that christians were encouraged to Become martyre's jesus says take up your cross and follow me Drink drink of drink of this cup. You will also drink of this cup. Uh this will also happen to you you'll be dragged away, kicking and screaming. And not only that, but for the first few hundred years in the church, it was not seen as suicide for people to line up for the executions, for people to fight to be first place at the execution, because to be martyred in the early church was a one-way ticket to the kingdom of God. And, well, if you can do that, if you can get the instant ticket and die now, well, that's great, it's eternal life, because, well, I'm a human, so I have a sin nature, and so I'm a bad person. So if I can just wipe that all out and just get it over with and know that I'm gonna be good, then why not? And so that really encouraged a lot. And if you read through the passages, most of the apostles did not want to be killed. They flee, Paul flees from prison, Peter flees. They all are running until they're caught. And then at trial, they'll stand firm, but none of them wanted to die. None of them offered themselves up willingly, which is what martyrdom is, is embracing death for your cause. All right, Jim, thanks so much. Did you want to add some to that? Yeah, I just wanted to add the idea of when you look at Jesus' ministry for three years, he was being pursued in many cases. In fact, just before he was crucified, he basically had gone into hiding for a while, and that's told in the first parts of the book of John. So he had been in hiding, and he was escaping too a lot of times during this thing because he wanted to continue his ministry. He didn't want it to end at the points where people were trying to get him early on, but then he finally, when it came up to the Passion Week, and when he decided to, everything came out basically when he entered Jerusalem on top of the camel, at that point, which was predicted in Daniel nine specifically, but at that particular point, he came out as the Christ, and the week started and the clock started ticking. All right, thanks so much. He didn't come out, he was called out. Well, he was recognized by the masses in Jerusalem as the Savior. Well, I would hope so, because everybody knew from his birth who he was. Anna and Simeon at the temple, the shepherds, the three magi, Mary, Joseph, everybody knew that Jesus was the Son of God. I don't know why everybody forgot. No, no, no. I'm not saying that everybody forgot at all. There were definitely some people who were aware of it, including his apostles. I was just mentioning that the full of Jerusalem, people who were maybe just strangers to the cause or whatever it was, when Jesus was going down on the camel, just as predicted in Zechariah nine, nine, and fulfilled by Jesus when he went into the Jerusalem, at that point, everyone was praising him, not just his mother and Simeon, at least people like that. All right, thank you guys so much. So that was fulfilling it. Well, since we're running short on time, we'll try and go through these next ones. Yeah, yeah, go for it. So we need to circle back around because Jared, he must have missed the part where we asked his question. So I wanna just re-ask that real quick to SJ. How much testimony does it take to demonstrate the laws of physics have been violated? I know you gave a brief answer to that earlier. You wanna just kind of restate your... Well, how much is it? I mean, it's basically asking how much testimony do we need to show a miracle? And so my answer to that is basically, I, you know, a lot of testimony, you need definitely some sources to show a miracle. And we have that with Christianity. We've got more evidence for Christianity than any other faith in the world. We've got more documentation and ancient books and things like that for Christianity than anything else. What contemporary evidence do you have? What's that? What contemporary evidence do you have? Because I have contemporary evidence for the miracles of this patient. To say it's contemporaries, to say that it's people who live during the time of Jesus. And we do have the people like Matthew and John. And we also have, of course, Paul. Children, anonymous authors. Paul did live during the time that he didn't know him. Paul, we estimate it was right around the year 35 or 36 when Paul encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus. So clearly he was around at the time when Jesus was crucified in 33. How was he persecuting Christians when there wasn't even Christianity yet? There was Christianity. No, there was a... Oh, they called it the way. They called it the way. Thanks so much for those, for the interchange there. We've got a question from Jesse Kampen says, SJ and Jim, can you... Oh, I'm sorry. That's where he was asking, could you repeat the questions? We went back and did that. Anamorphic Mind says, question for SJ. Why has there never been any new pages to the Bible in over 500 years? Well, because the canon was closed. And even in the book of Revelation, it basically said, don't add anything at this point. We're done. All right. Thanks so much for that. Question for SJ, if God knows everything, et cetera, et cetera, why would he create humans and animals knowing they would kill each other? And if he knows the future, why would he give options? So basically, I guess you could ask, why is there death on the planet? And I would say that this life is a stepping stone to the next life. And so this is just like a testing ground, basically, to get us to the next world and shape our spirits. But even if it does make this a testing ground, it's still a testing ground that God designed. So God designed it that way. Correct. Exactly. Thanks so much for that. We have a super chat from Ian Yutublin, a 35 czar, whatever that currency is, says SJ. If God knows everything, why would he create humans and animals knowing they would kill each other if he knows, okay, so he just super chatted the same question, basically, it looks like. Yep. I hope I... Just super chatted the same question. Okay, well, thanks so much for that. It looks like that is, I think that's our last question. All right, so I just want to wrap up by saying thanks to Dr. SJ Thomason and to soon to be Dr. Jim Majors, the mustache for short, usually. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, and thanks for everybody who's sitting in their super chats and their questions. And sorry about the technical difficulties and the bad attacks, but on Monday debate, we just want to make sure that everybody feels welcome here regardless of your background, regardless of what you believe. We want this to be a place that everybody can come to to discuss these things without getting, you know, overly emotional and like, you know, worried about what will happen if they bring out their beliefs here or there. So that, and then another thing I want to remind you guys of, David Wood versus Matt Delahunty, one that we've been waiting for for quite a long time if you've been in this community for a while. This is definitely one that we've been asking like, man, when is that gonna happen? So that'll be definitely a great battle coming up. So please hit the reminder button on that on the YouTube page for it and it'll send your reminder before it goes live. And also, if you haven't already, follow my lead and also other people like Andrew Rodriguez and Nathan Topps and a few of the others that have become patrons to the channel for modern day debate. And make sure and hit that like button, subscribe. And that lets James know what debates that people really liked. And so even through all the technical difficulties, I still think this was an awesome discussion and I don't want, and that will help James to realize like, hey, look, they really like hearing this. So, and one more thing here, we just had a late super chat come in from Jeremy Pace says, Sja, because Muslims are willing to die for their beliefs, does that mean Christianity is wrong and Islam is right? Real quick. Well, I did kind of address that before, but the idea of people being willing to die isn't enough to say, and just like even Jim pointed out with Gary Habermas, because somebody's willing to die doesn't prove what they're willing to die for is true, but the idea of the early apostles actually knew what they were claiming was to be true. True, thank you Sja, thank you. That's all I wanted to hear. Thank you, you win. That's all I wanted to hear. You end on a point of agreement. That was pretty awesome. Everybody, thanks for showing up and Sja and Jim, thanks again to you guys especially for being here and spending your time with us. Thanks so much for that and I can't wait to see you guys again. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Had a good one Sja. Everybody, go subscribe to me, youtube.com slash Jim Majors, thank you. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, please subscribe to me too, Sja Tomason.