 We're going to talk about Amber Heard and Johnny Depp and we're going to focus on Amber Heard because she's the one on the stand right now and as we go through these videos, keep in mind and remember me saying this, there are people watching this that have gone through similar situations and situations that are 10,000 times worse than this. We know that. We understand that. So also keep in mind as we go through this, we're just telling you about the body language we're seeing in these people. That's it. We're not for her. We're not against her. We're neutral. We're just telling you about the body language we see in the videos we're watching. That's it. Having said that, here we go. Greg, why don't you tell us about the videos we're going to watch? Yeah, a couple of things, guys. If you are a survivor of domestic violence, there could be some triggering things in here. So just be aware of that because there's some testimony that gets up against that. The second thing to tell you is that we are very cautious and keep our show standards. So we do not cover the most graphic portions of this. So if you ask why not, that's why not, and we'll go with that. You know, get out of school as fast as I could, and I wanted to do more things with my life than stay in Texas. So what types of things? So where did you go to school when you were younger? I was a scholarship kid at a Catholic school growing up, several different Catholic schools. But they were always on the other side of town in the wealthier part of town, and I grew up quite working class. And thankfully, as long as I maintained an A average, I enjoyed the benefit of a scholarship. I did that until I realized that I could take my AGED and SATs early, and I did that and placed out of school and effectively left school at 16 years old, I believe. And what did you do for work during those younger years? I took any job that I could. I worked at my father's construction company, sometimes, you know, just administrative stuff. I mean, it was a small company. But I answered phones, and I worked at, like, a modeling agency that was also, you know, offered photography classes, makeup classes, hair and makeup classes for people that were pursuing a career in entertainment. And I started taking classes that I paid for by working there effectively as a trade. And I eventually worked there long enough to be able to pay for my headshots, which are the pictures that you use in the industry to promote yourself, you know, in whatever, acting, modeling, or both. Okay. And... All right. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, this is a great opportunity for us to look at baseline. We always say baseline matters, and baseline on the stand is better than baseline off the stand, because you can see what's normal for the person under whatever level of duress that was. Her cadence is pretty fluid. It's interspersed with her using some ums and ahs, but those ums and ahs are as she goes from transition from one data point. When she's giving you a packet of data, that's pretty fluid. Then when she goes um, ah, um, ah, she's moving to something new. She does that as she starts to say something where she says, thankfully, I think she's going to praise herself and then rethinks that, redirects to a different way of saying it. We see her brow rise a lot, and we've seen her in past videos with grief and her grief muscle. I think we usually see as an arch is only a couple of small lines. Here we're seeing all straight lines across. She's doing requests for approval. And then she uses her mouth and withdraws her lips an awful lot, but she's not condemning. She's not saying anything negative. It's just the way she expresses a lot of what she's saying. I've watched her in other interviews. She does exactly that. When she's required to think about something, you'll watch your eyes out of focus. They're not making contact with anyone. She's going to an internal and she starts to think. She tries to say words down. She puts her brow down and that's it, guys. I mean, this is her baseline. We're going to see she uses her illustrators. She even says the company was small. We see her hands illustrating what she's thinking. And so we expect to see that as she goes into the next piece. Scott, what do you got? All right, she looks and she sounds relaxed. She seems relaxed and she's wearing those dumpy little clothes like they're not little. They're a little bit big for whereas before when she's when Johnny's been on the stand, she's wearing these things that make her look a little bit more attractive. Not that she doesn't look attractive here, but her clothing is a little the style is a lot different than it normally is. Her body language is smooth. It's not jerky. It's not stiff for the most part. Everything seems to be moving, not loping but close to it because she's talked about this before. When she's asked, where did you go to school? And you can see her searching as her eyes dart back and forth for her answer. The one that she's prepared, she's gotten ready for it. And then she delivers it and it's fairly smooth. She's done. She's told that story since she got out of high school and for the last year or how many years that is. But when she answers, she's looking right down the barrel at the jury. So that's who she's playing to. That's who she's acting to. And her answers rehearsed, of course, but I don't think she went over very many times, even though she's she's gone over her whole life. And I'm sure her focus was on what's coming up in the later videos. Mark, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so not only a baseline for us, but a framework for the jury to see her by. So the question from the examiner is, so what type of thing? And then stops and then goes, so what did you where did you go to school? It's where question. Where did you go to school? If you asked me that question, I would say I went to Western Favourl Upper School and it was just up the road about 15 from my home. That's where I went to school. But what she does with the question is to create not a geographical answer. She creates an evaluative answer. She says, I was a scholarship kid at a Catholic school. She's first of all putting down not where Catholic schools and many of them. But that's not an answer to the question. She's setting up for the jury. Here's how I want you to see me as somebody who gets scholarships, if somebody who goes to Catholic schools and goes to many Catholic schools. Why several but and then a look of disgust. So wrinkling of the nose and maybe a little bit of anger as well around that. Well, you know, maybe there's some issues with her changing schools. I don't quite know, could be there. Be interesting to investigate. She then goes on to talk about wealthier part of town, other side of town. So she's on one side of the town. The schools are on another side, a wealthier side. Again, disdain, disgust, some snarls of aggression. Well, it's interesting, but but the this disdain and disgust and aggression kind of go throughout a lot of her testimony. And again, I would say it's a bit of a baseline for her. There's a bit of a general baseline of a negativity and unease with the world around her. That could speak somewhat to a personality type. There's been, you know, I think one or two people on the stand talking about her personality type and therefore or the ideas of a personality or some personality disorders with her. I'm not going to go into any diagnosis of that. I don't have the ability around that. And there's some who say the person on the stand didn't have the abilities around that. But there is a baseline body language there of a general. Let's just say unease or negativity about the world. Kind of interesting to see that. Oh, she she has disdain, disgust, a little bit of aggression around administrative answering phones, modeling agency. I mean, so you kind of go, what does she dislike all of these things? Or is that just a general temperament that she has? I'm thinking probably a general baseline temperament of pain, negativity. Yes, or certainly let we might say she's not super positive in this particular situation, maybe. Or maybe it's a general malaise with the world. Chase, what do you think? Yeah, I agree with you guys. This is a great baseline development when Greg is saying baseline. What we mean is we're observing behaviors during circumstances where deception is not likely. And that's what that's what we're looking at when we're seeing a baseline because we're not looking at like, oh, this body language means that. Now, a lot of people think that that's what body language is. But once you get to a good point, we're not looking for individual body language. We're looking for changes from baseline, mostly. And this is a solid baseline development, which is bad news for Amber, as you're going to see here in a few minutes. And her baseline is using an eyebrow flash for exposition or data revelation. There's not a lot of hesitancy. There's a use of her hands. This one o'clock eye accessing movement. So her eyes move that way when she's accessing some of these pieces of truthful data. And this is potentially a retreat position of her maybe moving away or running away. If I was seeing this first and I hadn't watched the trial before this, that's what I might think that the one o'clock is going to be the accessing forever, but that's going to change here in a bit. And I want you to watch for that and see if you can see it before. We talk about it. See if you can spot that before we talk about it. When does she look away from one o'clock? There's even tone and cadence and this chin boss. If you're a subscriber, you hear us talk about this pretty regularly. That means shame or grief. This muscle right here, it's called the chin boss. I think there's a more scientific name. I can't remember what it is. But she uses this muscle to accentuate a lot of points. So you saw it during all of this truthful exposition here while she's talking that muscles moving. So keep an eye out for that. At some points, the the chin boss is completely gone and then shows up in a spike. That's where that makes sense for us to comment on. And that's where you're going to probably see a lot of us comment on the difference and change in baseline behavior. That's. You know, get out of school as fast as I could. And I wanted to do. I wanted to do more things with my life than say in Texas. So what types of things? So where did you go to school? You were younger. I was a scholarship kid at a Catholic school growing up several different Catholic schools. But they were always in the other you know, on the other side of town in the wealthier part of town. And I grew up quite working class. And and and thankfully with. You know, as long as I maintained an A average, I I enjoyed the benefit of a scholarship and I did that until I realized that I could take my GED and SATs early and I did that and placed out of school and effectively left school at 16 years old, I believe. And what did you do for work during those younger years? I took any job that I could. I worked at my father's construction company. Sometimes, you know, just administrative stuff. I mean, it was a small company, but I answered phones and I worked at like a modeling agency that was also, you know, offered photography classes, makeup classes, hair hair and makeup classes for people that were pursuing a career in entertainment. And I started taking classes that I paid for by working there effectively as a trade. And I eventually worked there long enough to be able to pay for my headshots, which are the pictures that you use in the industry to promote yourself, you know, in in whatever acting, modeling or both. OK. And do you remember the first time that he physically hit you? Yes. Please tell the jury about it. It was so, it's seemingly so stupid, so, like, insignificant. Oh, never forget it. It changed, it changed my life. I was sitting on the couch and we were talking. We were having a, like, a normal conversation, you know, just there was no fighting, no argument, nothing. And he was drinking and I didn't realize at the time, but I think he was using cocaine because it was like, there was a jar of cocaine out on the table. I realized it sounds weird, but it's like an actual vintage jar of it. But I didn't see him use it at the time, so I didn't really factor that in. I just, you know, he's drinking and we're talking and there's music playing and he's smoking cigarettes and we're sitting next to each other on the couch and I asked him about the tattoo he has on his arm. And to me, it just looked like black marks. Like, I didn't know, I didn't know what it said. It just looked like muddled, faded tattoo. That was hard to read. And I said, what does it say? And he said, it says, whino, says whino. And I didn't see that, I thought he was joking because it didn't look like it said that at all. And I laughed, it was that simple. I just laughed because I thought he was joking and slapped me across the face and I laughed. I laughed because I didn't know what else to do, I thought, this must be a joke, this must be a joke because I didn't know what was going on. I just stared at him, kind of laughing still. Chase, what do you got? Well, first off, we've got hesitancy, which is outside of her baseline. There's a lot more hesitancy here and hesitancy is one of those things we look for aside from deviation from baseline for deception, there's a retreat to internal dialogue. And when I say that the eyes are moving this direction, which suggests that she's moving to internal dialogue, she's rehearsing something, going over something that's rehearsed. The facial expressions are more overplayed than I've ever seen in my entire life. And keep in mind, I'm not just some dude on YouTube, I've been doing this for well over 30,000 hours of my life analyzing stuff like this. There's bottom teeth showing, which is outside of her baseline and it suggests a little bit of anger and combativeness maybe. This chin boss movement you'll see here, it's pretty common, so I'm gonna ignore it most of the time unless there's an aberration. And she's aiming at the jury during all these critical points, making eye contact with multiple jurors, making sure to hit every single person there looking around the jury just during these critical points. During the points that a normal testimony, when it's emotional and life changing, the person will be focused behind their eyes, they would be living in their head, reliving a situation they'd be way less likely, and I'm talking about likelihood, way less likely to be doing this, this kind of spraying eye contact around the jury. I think it's interesting after a year together, a year together at this point, and what she saw in the story, this jar of cocaine didn't magically appear. She had to be okay with it for a year until this point. There's a lot of disgust and contempt at Johnny and his tattoos on her face, that you can see the disgust spatial expression where everything kind of moves towards the middle, squeezes everything in the middle. There's some contempt, this one-sided smiling on her face, and there's vanishing and reappearing sadness that is not characteristic of honest recall, in my opinion, and every time her visual field gets close to Johnny, it just starts dragging towards Johnny, her eyes flutter, so they start closing rapidly, and we do this unconsciously to not see something or to avoid something in a conversation. I think this is telling, as in other times, when she's recalling things that are known facts, she has no problem looking at him whatsoever. So even stressful emotional stuff, she can look at him. And also, she's been with him a year at this point and is just now noticing these tattoos. A little bit strange. Scott, what do you got? All right, she looks a lot different or she's acting a lot different body language-wise. In this video that she did in the one before, she stiffens up some. Her movements are small and jerky. Here were last time they weren't. The downturn mouth that indicates sadness. And, but the forehead doesn't engage the way it should for that emotion. We don't see any grief muscle at all. We don't see anything else outside of that that shows us sadness. Her eyebrows are up. That's Greg's request for approval. That's, and that goes with that quite often. You'll see that as well. Her cadence speeds up, which means she's talking faster. Her tone is strong and her volume is actually louder. And we see a lot more engagement of the brow and the glabella muscles right in here. And when we talk about the grief muscle what we're talking about is when the glabella and the brow muscle come together and they push up as the top of the forehead sort of comes down. It's really, really tough to do. Greg can do it with no problem. And that shows us a little upside down horseshoe shape in there. And that's what we refer to as the grief muscle. So most illustrators are made with the right hand, but then toward the end where she gets a little bit more anime, she brings up her left hand and starts, as she starts talking about the more graphic or as it becomes more violent and she becomes more angry and more frustrated. And all of her illustrators are on point. They're timed correctly. There's no lag or rush between words or emphasizing with her eyebrows. All this stuff is spot on, but it's spot on and it feels a little bit odd. Now most of the time in this everything is as it should be, but something my gut just says something's not right here. And I think most of the women watching this will say, will feel the same thing. And you'll feel that way because your brain, like I was saying earlier, is different than the female brain is different from the male brain. It gathers information a lot, a lot gets a lot more detailed in the information and it sorts it differently than the male brain. You know, that's a fact. So I think more women will see this and have their, the women's intuition feeling of something's not right here. If you do feel that way, let us know in the comments if you feel that way. All right, Mark, where do you got? I'm going to focus during this on something I don't normally focus on with tenses. Because I don't remember that I focus on that a great deal. So I'm going to focus on historical present tense because there's a shift that she makes to historical present tense. She's talking about the past, but she goes into the tense of it's happening now. She says, I ask him about the tattoo. This is what we call in drama an incitement because this is the thing that causes the cascade of other events to happen. And instead of saying, you know, I asked him about the tattoo, she says, I ask him about the tattoo. Now, why in drama is, especially in dangerous, around dangerous act, why in drama or voles is going to historical present and useful storyteller? If you go to present tense, you survive the violence or not. If you pass tense and you're the storyteller, we know you survive. Of course, we know Amber Heard is there and we know she's giving stories here about violence and about the past, but if she goes into historical present tense there, there is that sense of, oh, what happens next? What happens next? So look, is she going, and she'll do this throughout, by the way. We'll see this come up a number of times. The question becomes, is she doing the attic in the telling of a true story? Is she telling of a false story? Is it just a slip-up? You know, is she just moving tenses? That happens, that happens in culture. That happens with certain personalities as well. Or there's another option here and you need to keep your, I guess your mind open to these options if you've already gone one way or another on Amber Heard. We do know that trauma does cause problems with storytelling. We know that trauma causes problems with pronoun shift and we know it causes problems with tense shift as well. So there is the option that there is real trauma here and that is causing the tense shift there. I'll tell you a bit later on what one it seems to move towards more, but just think about those options as we go through, especially if you've already made up your mind, because if you've already made up your mind, here's a great opportunity to open your mind to other ideas because other ideas won't ever change your mind. You know, if you've already made up your mind, it's made up, it's just an option here to do a bit of critical thinking, pay attention to other ideas that you're hearing there and then go back to the idea that you already had, the mind that you'd already made up. So, tense shift, we're gonna see a lot of that happening. Why is it happening? That's the big question. Greg, what have you got on this one? Yeah, so Scott, I'm gonna jump to Greg's intuition here. I'll tell you what you missed on here, what you feel. There's no illustrator for him slapping her, not one. She illustrates how small the company is, she does all that, but there's no illustrator of violence or there's nothing there. She starts off with that request for approval, talk into the jury and then she does that disdain face, what we're all saying is kind of in her baseline where she draws all that lip withdrawal and all that and she does just as much of that when she's talking about the tattoo as she does when she's talking about him slapping her. Well, hold on, either one of those is more eventful than the other or not and we're going to see a pattern that rejection and other things, we're gonna see a lot more animation in her than the actual violence, the fisticuffs or whatever you're gonna hear in here. She goes into that storytelling with a lot of words and details and she uses an elicitation technique. She does a provocative statement. A provocative statement is intended to get you to ask me a question. That's all it is. If I say it was a jar of cocaine, a whole jar, then you say, where did that come from? I'm getting you to pull part of the story out and we use that when we're collecting intelligence because if I say something provocative and you ask a question, it starts the conversation. Then she, there's a really interesting piece and Chase, you hit, she pauses and stammers when she's giving content and that's outside of her baseline. But who slapped her across the face? Slap me across the face. Not he, not Johnny, not anyone. You're a vanishing perpetrator. It was just random. Somebody slapped her across the face. There's some uncertainty and throwaway facts or fading facts as you would call them, Scott. And there's just nothing there. When she says I laughed, there's a tongue jet, a pronounced tongue jet. And then she starts going down the well for emotion. That's, I don't see any of that as looking like a person has been slapped around and we'll see more of that as we go through. But I see less emotion about violence than I do about rejection or a tattoo or about the same amount. That's unusual when you're hearing something about violence from someone. It's all I got. Dear, do you remember the first time that he physically hit you? Yes. Please tell the jury about it. It was so, it seemingly so stupid, so insignificant. I will never forget it. It changed, it changed my life. I was sitting on the couch and we were talking. We were having like a normal conversation, you know? Just, there was no fighting, no argument, nothing. And he was drinking and I didn't realize at the time, but I think he was using cocaine because it was like there was a jar, a jar of cocaine out on the table. I realized it sounds weird, but it was like an actual vintage jar of it. But I didn't see him use it at the time so I didn't really factor that in. I just, you know, he's drinking and we're talking and there's music playing and he's smoking cigarettes and we're sitting next to each other on the couch and I ask him about the tattoo he has on his arm. And to me, it just looked like black marks. Like I didn't know what it said. It just looked like muddled, faded tattoo. That was hard to read. And I said, what does it say? And he said it says, why no, it says why no. And I didn't see that, I thought he was joking because it didn't look like it said that at all. And I laughed, it was that simple. I just laughed because I thought he was joking and slapped me across the face. And I laughed. I laughed because I didn't know what else to do, to do I thought this must be a joke. This must be a joke because I didn't know what was going on. I just stared at him, kind of laughing still. Thinking that he was gonna start laughing too to tell me it was a joke, but he didn't. He said, you think it's so funny? You think it's funny? You think you're a funny? And he slapped me again, like it was clear. It wasn't a joke anymore. And I stopped laughing, but I didn't know what else to do. You know, I didn't know what to do. You would think you would have a response, but I as a woman had never been hit like that. I'm an adult and I'm sitting next to the man I love and he slapped me for no reason it seemed like and I missed the point. It was that stupid. Second slap, I know he's not kidding, but I don't know what else to say or do. So I just stared at him. I didn't say anything, I didn't react. I didn't move or freak out or defend myself or say, what are you doing? You're great. I just stared at him because I didn't know what else to do. And he slapped me one more time, hard. I lose my balance at this point we're sitting next to each other on the edge of the couch or I was on the edge of the couch and I'm all of a sudden realizing that the worst thing has just happened to me that could possibly happen to you. I realized that I, I wish so much he had said he was joking. All right, well, I'll go first on this one. Here's where she really stiffens up and her illustrators just disappear almost completely. If I remember from what Albert Ray talked about in his studies or went over, as someone who's being honest and more likely to use more illustrators, people emphasizing specific words or phrases. Now, although her voice gets louder, her cadence speeds up and her tone is just a little bit, little bit higher. And she's talking about something graphic and it's action packed, but we see almost zero illustrators and gestures, almost nothing, which is odd for her because in a little while she just blows up into almost a one of those clowns or not clowns with those balloon people you see in the parking lot that are just flowing everywhere. She gets that big. So we know, let's see what else. In this we're seeing all the right facial expressions. We're seeing anger, contempt, disgust, frustration, hopelessness, disagreement. And then one quick shot of happiness while she's talking about not freaking out. So this is loaded with everything we need to see from a body language perspective that shows the emotions are congruent with her story with what she's talking about. Everything looks as it should. But they're so on point they seem odd. They're too on point. That's what gives you that little, that odd little feeling where you go, why is this, why do I feel like or know like something's not right here? What's giving me that feeling on this? In each section of her story from paragraph to paragraph, you see facial expressions and they're huge. Like Chase was saying earlier, man, they're big. However, facial expressions don't go from one to the other to the other to the other to the other. And change like that, they morph into the other ones. We're not seeing any morphine here. We're just seeing them change. It's like flipping switches on this because she knows now what to do for those emotions, what facial expressions are supposed to be or that we expect to see that we usually see in those kind of things. One right after the other, just blocks, just sections, no morphing at all. So if you're getting that weird feeling about that ladies, women, that's what I'm talking about. It's gonna start feeling even worse. It's gonna get even worse here in a few minutes. So keep watching for these throughout this video when you see her expressions, not morph, they just click from one to the other. Pay close attention to that. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, remember, we talked about a baseline about a year and a half ago, we covered her for a 2016 deposition. And all these lines indicate just a straight line indicates in her that she's asking for approval. And then she has two lines, just two small lines when she's showing grief. You can go watch our other video and see it very clearly. This is the best resolution they had. This one in, so this is what we get. Again, she's illustrating, yes, Scott, but she never illustrates the slap. There's never an impact, there's never that violence thing, which makes me think, why? Of all the things I would illustrate, it would be a draw or slap or something. She uses that transition language, remember the ums and ahs as she's getting into the situation where she doesn't know what to say, she uses ums and ahs. Otherwise, she has slower cadence than she did in the beginning. And she does that same thing you pointed out last time, Scott, it's interesting. She has a request for approval and drawn down sides of the mouth. That's odd. We usually see grief and other emotion that's associated, it looks wrong. Then, the only place I do see any real concern and grief and anger is when she said I didn't move to defend myself. The illustrators are missing for the slaps, the illustrators are missing for everything else, but she's explaining the couch wonderfully with illustrators. She's taking her hands and showing you the real estate of where she's at. And she edits to tell you why she was able to be slapped off the couch. You can see I got slapped, knocked off the couch. Well, how does that happen if you're sitting in the middle of a couch? She goes out of her way to say, well, we were sitting on the, well, no, I was sitting on the edge. That seems like an edit you needed to make that if I slapped today, if I slapped Chase and he fell off the couch, after he shot me, he would say, Greg slapped me and I fell off the couch. He wouldn't say because I was sitting on the edge. That wouldn't be the way the story went. It's just not the way we go. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, well, so her story is I lose balance. So it's not even, so again, she's back into that present past tense. There's a moment before that second slap. I know he's not kidding. Again, present past tense. Now again, the question is, is it because there's deception going on? And yeah, there's a whole lack of illustrators there that we would expect to go with that. So you put that together, doesn't look good. But there is this idea that trauma, real trauma, will produce those tense shifts. So keep that in mind, keep that in mind because you need to find clusters of information, not just one piece of information. If I go, look, based on this, tense change, clearly victim of trauma. Well, maybe, maybe it's possible. Look, lack of illustrators, clearly a liar. Well, maybe, maybe we don't know. We've got to put the whole thing together and we've got a whole bunch more videos to go. So if you made up your mind to suspend for a little bit, you may well find out that you were absolutely right, according to us by the end, or maybe there'll be something new that'll come out of it for you. What is interesting for me is there is a very difference, a very big difference in her voice and fading facts, as Scott says. So fading facts is when stuff just kind of, just peed us out at the end, like that. And that is often a sense of somebody not being confident, let's say, in their answer. Many reasons why somebody might not be confident, but we find it shows up quite a bit with deception. Anyway, she does that on what she wasn't saying. So she says, you know, what I didn't say was, what are you doing? You're crazy. She doesn't even finish that word. Now, at the same time, she's telling us what she didn't say. So maybe the fading facts work in that. Maybe the tone shift works in that. But on its own, well, we need to put it with a whole bunch of different factors there. Another factor to bring in, I as a woman have never been hit like that. I as a woman. So she's very clear about that, have never been hit like that. Well, does that mean as a man, that's okay? Like men hit other men like that, but as a woman, that's not expected. So there's some real clear clarity around an expectation of what should happen around men and women. I would say the same, some good kind of chin boss action there, some good lips, lip compression, some good sadness in some of the right places. But my worry is still around this tense shift because even now I'm starting to go, well, when is she gonna do it? When is she not gonna do it? What is the pattern of tense shift here? And it's gonna start for me to get even more chaotic and even more difficult to really work out when I think it's gonna show up and when it's not gonna show up. So wait for that. Chase, what do you think? Totally agree. And this tense shifting is actually gonna get predictable in a few minutes. It's gonna come up during very specific times in a minute because she's getting more used to it. And I think this present tense, when there's a shift to present tense, it's shifting to the screen play. I do this, I do this, I experience this. There's a screen play going on there. And this downward turned mouth with the raised eyebrows is the traditional clown face and sharing, wanting to share that grief or share that experience and getting somebody else to share some kind of emotion. And she's layering in truth and deception here. There's more vanishing perpetrator, slap me in the face. It's really strange. The first slap is past tense. The second slap is present tense. Then there's a shift to past tense again when she's discussing how she felt about it. And then she goes back to present tense for the third slap then back to past tense for her reaction to that slap. Then we go back to present tense for realizing the worst thing has just happened to me. Then there's a shift to past perfect. I wished so much he had said he was joking. And this is a major problem. I have been doing this a long time. I've analyzed a bunch of videos. I've never seen this much tense shifting in my lifetime. On record, I'm saying it here. I've never seen anything like this, past, present, past, present over and over like this. And then facial expression shifting rapidly between emotions. I've never seen anything like this in my life. So I would bet that there is a very, very high likelihood of deception here in the story. That's all I've got. I'm gonna bet that this, trying to grow a mustache thing is probably the worst decision I've made in the last 15 years. It's gonna be the major amount. No, you need a shift to present tense for that. It's the worst decision you're making. I think what you should do is go put on one of those filters so it'll look like it's just part of the filter. That's what I'll do. When we come back, I'll have that on for a few minutes. Yeah. No one will know. They'll know. Yeah, they'll know. Thinking that he was gonna start laughing too to tell me it was a joke, but he didn't. He said, you think it's so funny. You think it's funny. You think you're a funny. And he slapped me again. Like, it wasn't clear. It wasn't a joke anymore. And I stopped laughing, but I didn't know what else to do. You know, you... I didn't know what to do. You would think you would have a response, but I, as a woman, had never been hit like that. I'm an adult, and I'm sitting next to the man I love, and he slapped me for no reason. It seemed like, and I missed the point. It was that stupid. Second slap, I know he's not kidding, but I don't know what else to say or do, so I just stared at him. I didn't say anything. I didn't react. I didn't move or freak out or defend myself or say, what are you doing? You're great. I just stared at him because I didn't know what else to do. And he slapped me one more time. Hard. I lose my balance. At this point, we're sitting next to each other on the edge of the couch, or I was on the edge of the couch, and I'm all of a sudden realizing that the worst thing has just happened to me that could possibly happen to you. I realize that I wish so much he had said he was joking. Could you tell the jury what the box is that has the property with the skull bones property of JD? That's Johnny's drug box. I've seen it used for pills, but at the time it was bags of Coke, like dime bags of Coke. Okay. And what are these white lines on the table to the left of that box? That is cooking. Okay. And do you know what is in these two glasses that have kind of a gold colored liquor? Yes, they're different actually. That's confusing. They're different liquids. The one in the back in the larger glass is I believe at the time I was doing these tabs, a barroca is what they're called. They're little tablets. And anyway, I remember at the time that that's what I was putting my water because I had just come back from France where they sell them. And then the brown liquid in the shot glass is Johnny's liquor. I don't know what it's called, we kept it in the freezer. At that time March, 2013, I hadn't, I still didn't have the hard line. I won't even keep that in my freezer sort of attitude or posture with him. I wasn't that bold at the time. I didn't like it, but I didn't have that strength. I kind of at that time, I think was doing things like trying to pour it out when I could. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, it's really going to start falling to bits there. It's tricky to watch this one because it really does descend quite quickly. Starts off with, I believe, that's not very forceful. She believes that it was the tabs of, I think she says barroca, I've never heard of that drink, but I guess it's little tabs that create some kind of juice or drink or something. They come from Paris, apparently. She doesn't really need to tell us any of that. I mean, she's worried this will be quite confusing to us because to an observer, what you'll see there is two glasses, apparently one is a shot glass. And I understand there's some foreshortening there and one glass will look a little bit bigger than one, but even so, even so, to an observer like myself, I've seen a few glasses and to an observer like myself, they look a fairly similar size. It looks like both people are drinking pretty much. I mean, I know it can be confusing. She told me it can be confusing, okay? And she took me through how you go to Paris and you get stuff and it kind of went on and on that I stopped listening to a lot of it at one point because it didn't seem pertinent, but clearly it is pertinent that we need to understand that she's not having a drink. Yeah, and that's what we need to understand that he's got a shot glass and it's got Johnny's liquor in it. If I'd been with somebody for a while, I'd probably know what the liquor is. I'd probably know though it's kept in the freezer or the fridge or whatever it is, I'd probably have a good idea what it is because I'd be a drinker as well, like her. She has a drink now and again. Actually, from what I've heard, she has a few now and again. That's okay, I've got no judgment about that, but it would be easier to say so Johnny and I were both having a drink, okay? But that's not what comes across here. Johnny's got a shot glass and it's got Johnny's liquor in it and she's got something from Paris, something completely different. Though she says, look, that's his drugs tin and it's got Coke in it, Dime Bags of Coke and what are those lines? Well, they're cocaine and there's four of them. Well, either Johnny sets it up for his four nostrils or Johnny sets it up to do a couple of lines and then very quickly a couple of others and those are all possible or Amber's taking Coke as well. And that would be okay because when you're partners, you tend to kind of do some of the same stuff. You have a drink together, if you do Coke, you're probably gonna do some Coke, drugs together. Hopefully, as it descends into more drugs, you might calm it down a little bit or invite some people around to be a little more social to take the edge for there to be some more social responsibility when people start getting a little bit off their tree because if there's no social responsibility going on and you're off your tree a little bit, then it can all go a bit wild. But anyway, at this point, I don't buy this story at all. I don't buy it at all. It's not a good description of what's going on. It doesn't make a lot of sense. There's too much over-emphasis on trying to tell me the details. So I don't buy it. Look, for anybody who's into just lobbing in a really great conspiracy theory here as well, just because you may as well, you may as well have some fun. If you want a great conspiracy theory, you could say it's all been set up in a Masonic Hall. Have a look, have a look at that photograph and tell me why they set up the evidence in a Masonic Hall and send the money, please. Freemasons, please send me the money. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, so Mark, I think the reason we know something is going on is because she dramatically shifts the baseline. First of all, she starts to separate herself from Johnny, Johnny the monster. Now, this is like you said, early on in their relationship, but she's separating herself from him. At the end of her description of what this is, she does some eye blocking and some requests for approval and a lip compression. She has a condemning face at cocaine. She does, maybe she's afraid of the perception of something that will happen because there's something hidden in there because her transition is much too rapid, more than normal to your guys point earlier. Then she starts rambling to make herself appear to be somebody else. That's out of baseline. She starts to give you too much detail about these in France. And this is a thing that people do in France and they're like, well, I don't care about what they do in France. What's in those things? One is a bottle of some kind of drink, non-alcoholic and the other is alcohol. Then as she shifts gears to start to make herself a better person and to do some social signaling or some kind of, as she starts to virtue signal and say, look, I'm not the one. She starts this thing of, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know. I don't know how many times it happens, Chase, you may have counted, I think it's five or six in a sentence or two. And she's never done that before. So there's some way she's trying to distance and it makes her uncomfortable and it's filler for her. So immediately I would jump on that and say, hold on, what do you mean? And I would start taking that story apart that stumbling over words and using filler words is there for a reason. Scott, what do you got? Sorry, Chase, what do you got? Here's a quick tip. If someone's telling you a story, process it through this lens. What is being concealed in that story? And in this instance, every flaw, every bad behavior, every possible hint at ever having made a mistake in her lifetime is absent. She's giving us a story of a flawless Disney princess who lived with Satan. And Baraka, just as a quick tip here, is like airborne in the US. It's like an immunity support effervescent. I have some of my kitchen, actually, that dissolve in water like an Alka-Seltzer. I'm pretty fancy. If you didn't know, I have Baraka here. But there's a large- That's Baraka. There's a large spike in uncertain language toward the end of her statement. This is the beginning of our discovery of her stress and deception baseline. So this is the big spike in what we're really looking for as interrogators and behavior profilers. Scott. All right. The attorney tells the jury what's in the box and she tells the attorney what's in the box and she goes into detail about it. Not once does she look at the jury during that. However, when she gets to the part where she starts talking about her vitamin energy water, which is you're right, I had to Google it. I didn't know what Baraka or Baraka was, whatever it was. It's a multivitamin, as you know, and it gives your energy and it's a health food. That's the way they see that. Also, she's coming on like she doesn't think alcohol is good. She's sounding like, oh, that's alcohol. And like Mark was saying, she doesn't know what's in it. Really? She's going to say, hey man, what is that? At least if she's dating the guy or married to him at this point, you're going to know what's in there. And she acts like it's bad. She didn't want to tell him that she didn't want to keep it in her freezer. Come on, man. And then she's sitting there next to a damn scar face with all that blow lined out on the table. And she's coming on like, I don't know what, you know, I'm drinking healthy water. You don't know what he's drinking. That's all I got because I just can't go any further than that. Could you tell the jury what the box is that has the property with the skull bones property of JD? That's Johnny's drug box. I've seen it used for pills. But at the time it was bags of coke, like dime bags of coke. OK. And what are these white lines on the table to the left of that box that is cocaine? OK. And do you know what is in these two glasses that have kind of a gold colored liquor? Yes, they're different actually. It's confusing. They're different liquids. The one in the back in the larger glass is, I believe, at the time I was doing these tabs of Baroka. That's what they're called. They're little tablets. And anyway, I remember at the time that that's what I was putting my water, because I had just come back from France where they sell them. And then the brown liquid in the shot glass is Johnny's liquor. I don't know what it's called, but we kept it in the freezer. At that time, March 2013, I still didn't have the hard line. I won't even keep that in my freezer sort of attitude or posture with him. I wasn't that bold at the time. I didn't like it, but I didn't have that strength. I kind of, at that time, I think was doing things like trying to pour it out when I could. And Johnny, I don't remember the word to use, but starts accusing me of telling on him and calling him a drunk in front of his kids. I hadn't done that. I was actually trying to protect Johnny. I didn't feel like my place at all to share that with his daughter or anyone at the time, other than adults who might help with it, but not his kids. So I was trying to tell him I was trying to comfort her. I was trying to protect you. He basically was accusing me of doing this thing and of making them aware that he was drinking again. And he slams me up against the sidewall of the bedroom, we were in the bedroom this whole time, but up against the wall of the cabin and slams me up by my neck and holds me there for a second and tells me that he could fucking kill me. And I was an embarrassment. I was embarrassing, I was an embarrassment. This whole thing was a joke. All embarrassment. I made him feel sick. And I'll never forget, I was very, very, very much in love with this whole family now. And he's saying I'm embarrassing to him. And that somehow stuck in me more than that I could fucking kill you. It just sounded like hyperbole. It sounded like something he was just saying. But the names that he was calling me, what kind of just pushing me up against the wall by my neck, you know, hurt my feelings, hurt. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so this is another one of those trigger situations. Something is going on in her head that equates him saying that you disappoint me, that I don't like you with violence. I mean, at this point, she says he grabbed me by the neck and she actually holds her hand up in the right way. First illustration of violence we've seen. Then later she goes, he pushed my neck. Don't know or my throat. Don't know which of those is the accurate piece. Did he push her? Did he hold her up? Don't know. But based on what she's saying, he slammed her up against the wall. But he said bad things to her when he did it. And the bad things that he said to her are ego damaging. And that seems to be a volatility thing because she's showing a lot more emphatic emotion about that issue of being told that he was disappointed in her than she is about any physical violence. So I want to watch really closely now and say, what's causing this? Is this a trigger event for her in some way that triggers something in her head? And guys, not saying it didn't happen, but there's a lot of odd body language and a lot of shift in her cadence. Remember, in her baseline, concise packets of information about issues was normal for her with stammers as you transition. She stammers in the concise packet of information here. So it makes me want to go, hold on a second, you changed, why did you change? Chase, what do you got? Yeah, during that concise packet, there's a, I don't remember, starts. And we don't say starts. If something's happening to me, I'm not going to say Greg started choking me. I'm going to say Greg choked me. Like kind of a hesitancy again, and then two more us and then more hesitancy. That's all within this statement here. There's a shift to present tense only for the abuse. And I think the embarrassment story is truthful here. The abuse shows a very high, in my opinion, very, very high likelihood of deception, talking in above 95%. And she's unable to look at Johnny until she talks about it hurting her feelings. And that's when she does that. When he told her that she was an embarrassment, which I think probably happened. And the deviation in baseline is only around the abuse and not around the mean comments and how those comments made her feel. Scott. Yeah, and once again, I'm good and he's bad. And she's portraying herself as the protector here. She's protecting the monster's children from the monster at this point. So going back to Mark's original thing, it's good versus evil in this case. And she's good and Johnny Depp is evil. And it sounds like a high school student who's been in trouble and sent to the office. That's exactly, she talks about protecting people and then she wouldn't have said that around a little children, but she would have said it around adults who could help. So this is getting out. This is, I think it's out of her, about to get out of hand for her here in a couple of minutes. And she's performing this whole thing for the jury. And she wants to make sure she's doing well. So she looks over at the attorney as she's given these things. That's when she, because the attorney knows the story she's supposed to be telling. She's familiar with it. Their gestures and illustrators are in line with what we've seen so far. And she relays on her right hand or relies on her right hand for most of the action in this. Almost completely and during this mixed truth because I agree. I think part of it's true and part of it's not true. And I think some of this happened, but it wasn't quite as dramatic as she said, if any of it did. And she's blown a big story up out of it. And once again, the situation we're hearing about that doesn't manifest are the physical, the body language cues and tells that let us know she's experiencing the emotions. She says she's experiencing. What she says is happening. She doesn't look like she's experiencing the right stuff from what her body language says. There's no grief muscle again. Overall, her gestures and illustrators are too smooth and too calm and none of them hang. When the illustrator hangs and someone's talking and the illustrator hangs there for a minute, they're thinking. They're up in their head. I saw a big foot and he came out of the woods and then this, so you'll see that happen. But in this case, they do hang in a minute. But you should see a little bit of pause in there, a little bit of hanging in there. And you don't see any of it at all except for in a couple of minutes. And I'll explain that when we get there. Having said all that, she calms down a little bit. She gets her voice gets a little bit calmer, things get a little bit more smooth. And then I think what we're seeing her explain along with his body language, I think part of it happened, part of it didn't. And I think she's making what did happen a lot more dramatic than it was. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so I think if you wanted to bias towards her being a victim of violence here, you would say, hey, she really starts to produce illustrators here. And I hear what you're saying, Scott, around they may not be quite right, but I'm gonna bias towards in this particular case, okay, victim here, illustrators, passionate about it, slams me up, tells me, goes to the present tense there. Which there are good examples of people who under these abusive situations go to present tense there. However, contrary to that, you could go, well, she's being illustrative because she knows this is where the passion has to come out. And this is where the violence happened. So I really got to sell this here. So that's why the illustrators come out. And that's why they might look a little bit odd because they're more produced. And you could go, well, she goes to present tense because she knows the dramatic nature of that. And as an audience, when we're hearing that, we'll go, what happens? Will she get out of it? It's more exciting for us. But here's what I can say for sure is that the idea of embarrassed, embarrassing, embarrassment, embarrassing, all of those are used. And so there's huge layers. Excuse me, of that word. The embarrassment and being embarrassing and somebody being embarrassed is the biggest part of this story. And then when she goes back to the violence and says, it hurt, it hurt my feelings, have a listen to which hurt has the most stress on it. The first hurt, it hurt, has a little bit of fading fact on there, which is Scott's idea of it just kind of peters out, maybe not as confident, therefore maybe not as honest potentially. And then it hurt my feelings. There's a lot of stress on that. So here's what I'm gonna say is most likely very accurate about that. There was a lot of embarrassment around this or feelings of embarrassment. And embarrassment is very, very important to feel to the feeling of you've done the wrong thing. You've looked bad in front of people and people don't think good of you. That's incredibly important. And that hurt is the most important hurt given whether there's physical hurt going on at the same time or not. That's the really important hurt. Now, which is it? Is it both? Is it physical hurt and mental hurt? Is it one or the other? I don't know. I got some good suspicions, but I won't say at this point, but certainly the hurt of embarrassment is a acutely important and painful here. And Johnny, I don't remember the words he used, but starts accusing me of kind of telling on him and calling him a drunk in front of his kids. I hadn't done that. I was actually trying to protect Johnny. I wasn't, it didn't feel like my place at all to share that with his daughter or anyone at the time other than adults who might help with it, but not his kids. So I was trying to tell him I was just trying to comfort her. I was trying to protect you. He basically was accusing me of doing this thing and of making them aware that he was drinking again. And he slams me up against the side wall of the bedroom, of the, we were in the bedroom this whole time, but up against the wall of the cabin and slams me up by my neck and holds me there for a second and tells me that he could fucking kill me. And now I was in embarrassment. I was embarrassing, I was in embarrassment. This whole thing was a joke. All embarrassment. I made him feel sick and I'll never forget. I was very, very, very much in love with this whole family now. And he's saying I'm embarrassing to him and that somehow stuck in me more than the I could fucking kill you. It just sounded like hyperbole. It sounded like something he was just saying, but the names that he was calling me, well, kind of just pushing me up against the wall by my neck, you know, I hurt my feelings. It hurt. And at some point he drinks in front of me at first. I think it was like a malbec or a wine or something. And I remember we hadn't, like it kind of started an argument. And that was upstairs in that room that we just looked at a picture of, you know, by the sunflowers. That's more or less where we were standing just closer to the kitchen. And we get in an argument and I shove past him, just stomp off. And he grabs me. We have an argument about me walking away and am I walking out of this? And in my head I was like, I actually wasn't thinking of leaving yet, but that would later be going through my mind. And we had a brief interaction and I don't remember the exact sequence of things. I wish I did. I have a lot of flashes. It gets a little bit more confusing from my ability to recall everything in a linear way a little later on as things got crazier. But for this part, the first night, what I distinctly remember is at one point, I don't think I had gotten very far. Maybe I came back into the room, but when he shoved me, I went flying across these parakeet floors. I mean, just skidding across these floors. And I remember thinking it just looked so easy for him to throw me around like that. You know, I just slid. All right, I'll go first on this one. So now let's pay attention to the word remember. We've heard it peppered in and out here so far through these videos. Just a little bit here, a little bit there. And now we're gonna be listening for it. And let's listen for the things described and how she describes things when she uses the word remember. Not a whole lot here just a couple of times, but coming up we're gonna see it go crazy with that word. When we hear that word, she's looking right at the jury most of the time. I remember, pay attention to that too. So we're beginning to see her body language change here as she becomes more animated. There are words and phrases that she uses and just as she uses energy-wise to get things up and get things happening. She's starting to get these things. She's gotta get it rolling because there's a lot coming up here in a couple of minutes. It's supposed to get very graphic here. However, things are as they should be at this point. Everything looks pretty much the way it should be. Everything is congruent. Her illustrators are on point. Everything energy-wise is where it should be. And everything is working together. Everything, she's got this one going very well. Everything looks good. So let's talk about PTSD just for a second. I'm not an expert on it at all, but I know about it. I've read about it. I think I have a basic understanding of it. And I think she's trying to make it sound like she has PTSD because what she's done is she's been told to or she's read about it and said, here's what PTSD is and we're gonna mix this in here to make it sound like this guy's giving you that from the way he's acting towards you. Like I said at the beginning, people have this from situations like this. We know that. I'm just telling you what we're seeing or what I'm seeing in this video here. That's why I'm going with this. When she talks about having flashes and scenes about what happened and loss of memory, those go right down the line for PTSD. Also when she says she can't remember things in a linear way. I'm not the smartest guy in the world. Look at this haircut and this bad mustache and these glasses, but I'm smart enough to know when somebody has heard something and they're parroting it. One of my favorite things in the world to pay attention to is sentence structure and how someone set structures a thought or an idea as they start going through trying to relay that idea to you and she's doing this. She knows she has to throw in that word linear somewhere and you don't say it in a linear way. You say it in a linear fashion. That's the way it's properly used. I don't think she's, I'm not saying she's an idiot or anything like that, but I can tell you when somebody reads a lot and again I can tell you when somebody's parroting something they've heard. There was, Greg and I were in Louisville talking to some people at a neurological department there as we were going to do some studies. And I can tell you pretty much after talking to somebody for 15 or 20 minutes what they're reading or what kind of a reading they're into or what they like to pay attention to what they like to read about. And I nailed this one guy in philosophy all the way down to his author who he had just been reading by just talking to him for a few minutes. It's sort of a parlor trick and I teach anybody how to do it. And in this, what I'm hearing and what I'm seeing in her talking, she doesn't read a whole lot. She's gonna say she reads a whole lot, but she doesn't because her sentence structure is that of the high school students almost when she starts talking and starts describing things. The structure to it, my structure when I talk, I talk really, really fast and it's really hard to understand me sometimes because I'm trying to get all the information out that I can. Having said that, I do pay attention to when people structure their senses when they're creating an idea and how to do that. She's gotten information. She's been reading over it the day before that or that day and she's remembering these things she's supposed to say about the flashes, about remembering scenes and not remembering things in a linear way when it should be linear fashion. That's what we're hearing here. That's what's happening here. So I'm not saying she doesn't have PTSD, but I'm saying she's acting like she has it and she's trying to pretend like she doesn't know what it is and that these things are part of PTSD. That's what I think is going on there. Chase, what do you got? I tend to agree. If somebody reads this book, this is the book that you diagnose mental disorders with. It's got all the, every possible disorder you can think of and then they fake having a disorder. That's a whole different thing and it's a huge accusation. This is just my opinion. That's called malingering. I did two years of study on this and this was my textbook, The Clinical Assessment of Malingering and Deception and it's made for court trials and depositions, surprisingly. In this, we see a lot of these indicators exactly what Scott was just talking about and I don't think you've been through that class, but you know exactly if there's the standardized behavior for that kind of thing and we're seeing it here in this video. So the first thing I had in my notes here was start paying attention to every time she says remember here. And let's talk about a few red flags that are present here. There's drinks in front of me, present tense. I remember there's an argument in past tense. We get in an argument. He grabs me, present tense. We had a brief interaction. There's hiding time and past tense shifting there. What I distinctly remember were here in that word again and it came up right when the physical thing started happening and what I remember, again, slid across the floor. Then there's hesitancy. Then there's distancing language. Then there's an eye flutter, but only at the points of abuse. The eye fluttering where there's a rapid closure of the eye when we want to get rid of a thought. We see that there, but we also see it during periods of deception. So the accuracy of her memory is a little bit flawed, but becomes somehow superhuman, 100% accurate when recalling only times of abuse. And this is clinically written here in the forensic interrogation methods and the forensic psychology methods of detecting this kind of stuff. Maybe I'm no expert, but there's a sharp movement into internal dialogue at the exact moment that she's recalling the physical altercation, a physical event. Her eyes moved down here. I was not a huge believer until Greg actually convinced me of this, that you ask somebody to recall something or to rehearse a line in their head and they'll move down that direction. She narrates her sliding across the floor in third person with her hand and has done every single other demonstration. I've watched every interview that she's done. I did this for 10 hours yesterday in first person up to this point with the exception of the comments regarding the abuse. So everything is in first person as she's experiencing it until the abuse starts being brought forward. And then she's narrating in third person like she's showing you something from a movie or a screenplay. That was a lot. I apologize. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, yeah. So let me get this right, Chase. If I was kind of acting the part of somebody with PTSD, I could take a look at some of those manuals and books and kind of look at some of the behaviors that happen and kind of perform those behaviors. And I might stand a chance of looking to the layperson, something like a jury or something like that because they're meant to be, there should be no experts in there. They should be just kind of ordinary people just looking at it. I might be able to come across as having experienced trauma. And if I was doing that kind of research as an actor, I might have come across just by Googling around a study that says that people who've experienced trauma and have PTSD do a lot of tense shift when they talk about the violence being perpetrated. And so I might start doing that. I might. I might start doing that. But if I did start doing that and I'm an actor, I might kind of slip up now and again and get it wrong because I'm having to make it up as I go along because I haven't been written a script because you hope as an actor that you get really good writers and they do all the research and they write you really good scripts and then it's all kind of accurate. And then people give you an award. They give you an Oscar because they go, ah, you know, that was really good. You were just like somebody with PTSD and you kind of, you take the award and what you don't say is anything. They wrote it really well. It was just me, you know, imagining the situation, saying the words that somebody else wrote just looked like I was that. I wasn't. Anyway, because that might be happening here. That could, I'm not saying it is, but it could be happening there because she says, well, she says, I shoved past him, just stamp off. She goes into that present tense. So she's okay about putting her own aggression in present tense as well. And so that's probably a good thing. If she puts all aggression in the same tense, that's probably okay. I'm with you on that. I don't recall, I wish I did. And then she says, well, I distinctly remember. Well, sorry, you can't have both. You can't have, well, maybe you can. Maybe you can with, if you've looked at PTSD, maybe you can have both things that you can go. And especially if you're kind of getting that idea across to an audience of some sort, they might forgive you just a little bit more. Okay. If you put yourself across, it's just flashes. It's just, you know, imagine it's just flashes that happen. So I wish I could recall that thing. I can recall this thing really, really well, by the way. Well, after she says what I distinctly remember, we get a lip lick to the side of the mouth, which is totally off baseline. We haven't seen that from her before. It feels to me like that's that stress. I don't think, she says, I don't think I had got very far. Maybe I had got back to the room. Hang on. I shove past him, just stomp off. And now what she distinctly remembers is, I don't think I'd got very far. Maybe I'd got back in the room. Okay. So how did that happen? Because when I shove past somebody and stomp off, like, I'm gone. Like I'm not coming back again. I'm gone, but she's back in there. And we don't know how. But when he shoved me, okay, hang on, now we've gone to past tense. This isn't making any sense because that should be in present tense. So now I'm totally confused. But I guess, if you've had trauma and PTSD, then all bets are off, I guess. I guess it's a bit of a scramble. I went flying across the parquet floor. I think she says parakeet floor, but it's parquet. It's a parquet floor. So there's shoves and there's throws. I don't know what it is, whether it's a shove or a throw. It probably can't be both. So maybe you want to pick one of them. It looked so easy. It looked so easy. Well, I think you said this Chase, but that's the wrong angle now. That's, it kind of looked so easy. It would be if somebody shoves me across a parquet floor and I slide across it. I would say it was so easy for that person to shove me. I wouldn't be the external camera angle, doing a nice slow pan around that. This one's a dog's dinner. It's a complete mess. It's all fallen to bits around this. And I think if there is an act going on here, and I think we've got some good ideas that there could be, there could be it's not being sustained very well, unfortunately. Greg, what do you think? Yeah, so everything we're saying is our opinion. In my opinion, she's done some homework here. That sounds like a checklist. Hey, let's see, got that? Yep, got it. Nope, got that, got that too. I've been around a lot of people with PTSD, and it can happen to a person from something very minor. It can. And other people, it may take something horrendous to give them PTSD. If you're a rage-filled person and you do something rage-ful, you can't keep things together in order either. So I'll just leave it at that. That's my opinion there. But let's hit a couple of things. Remember, I told you she does a lot of that weird face, condemning face, just to punctuate. She does it here the same for the room with the sunflowers as she does for this argument. So that's just telling you that's just the way she punctuates. Doesn't mean that something really happened. Words, however, really matter. And she says shove past him, strong shove, stomp off with an emphatic lower jaw when she does it. There's a lot of emotional eye-accessing there. And then she gets to that thing where she says we had a brief interaction and she actually shows disgust and a tongue jut. Something's up right here. I'm gonna also give you two things to watch from here on. I think she's done her homework. She does one shoulder shift as she illustrates with the other hand when she says maybe I was in the room, maybe I wasn't. Because I think she's in some heated moment here. And so putting that story together is a little tough. She does more illustration at sliding across the floor than she does at being hit or shoved. And she does more illustration at shoving and sliding across the floor than she does at fists and at slapping. Start paying attention to that. It makes me think that the further she has to reach to give you harsh details, the less likely she is to be illustrative for it. Could that be a result of PTSD? Don't know. Never seen anybody that was that way, but it comes out in different ways than all people. This just makes me suspicious. I'll leave it at that. And at some point he drinks in front of me at first. I think it was like a malbec or a wine or something. And I remember we hadn't, like it kind of started an argument. And that was upstairs in that room that we just looked at a picture of by the sunflowers. That's more or less where we were standing just closer to the kitchen. And we get in an argument and I shove past him, just stomp off. And he grabs me. We have an argument about me walking away and am I walking out of this? And in my head I was like, I would, I actually wasn't thinking of leaving yet, but that would later be going through my mind. We had a brief interaction and I don't, I don't remember the exact sequence of things. I wish I did. I have a lot of flashes. It gets a little bit more confusing for my ability to recall everything in a linear way a little later on as things got crazier. But for this part, the first night, what I distinctly remember is at one point, I don't think I had gotten very far. Maybe I came back into the room, but he, when he shoved me, I went flying across these parakeet floors. I mean, just skidding across these floors. And I remember thinking it just looked so easy for him to throw me around like that, you know? I just slid, I remember eventually in this interaction, he shoves me up against the fridge. He asked me by the throat, and he just was holding me there by my throat. And I wondered if it was the drugs, I wondered if it was him. It hadn't, my recollection hadn't been that long. He has me up against the throat. He's kind of bashing me against the, I don't know, I don't know what to say. Bashing me against the wall next to the fridge. We're kind of moving in that area. And at some point, I'm in his face, and he had, I don't know if he had let go of my neck or loosened my grip, but I remember slapping him across the face, screaming at him, screaming at me. I got my hand free when he tried to grab me when I walked off. I stormed off, I slammed the door upstairs. I don't know if it was in that instance, or if it was in the later one that I eventually barricaded the door. I couldn't, it wouldn't stop him from coming in. He could come in the other doors. There's plenty of, there's a back door, there's patio, but at least I'd hear it. And my, this is March, 2015. By this time, I'm being medicated by his doctors, giving me anti-anxiety meds, giving me, you know, had already tried to give me antidepressants. They didn't work for obvious reasons, I hope. I wasn't sleeping. I had insomnia, I'd wake up with panic attacks, my, you know, I needed to sleep, but my ability to do so was really, really compromised at this point. And I kept thinking that I just wanted to hear him or know if he came in. So I could be aware, so I could be ready for what was gonna come in with him. And at some point I go back downstairs. I don't really know at what point I gave up and stayed behind my barricaded door, but I managed to go to sleep. I took some sleeping pills. What do you got? Yeah, tenses are all over the shop now. As far as I'm concerned, Shove's has holding wondered, has bashing, just all over the place. But at some moment, I'm up in his face. Well, okay, at some moment, there's all this stuff going on, then at some moment, well, I wanna know, like how that, how are you up in his face? How did that happen? I remember slapping him. Okay, so we're, we do have some remembrance of that. Stormed off, slammed the door. Well, that's aggressive, not protective, I would say. If I, if I were worried about myself, I wouldn't be storming off and slamming doors. I would be running away and locking myself somewhere. Maybe quietly, I would be more silent, more, but I know that's just me, it's not her. So, so, you know, I'm worried about that. I don't know if I eventually barricaded. Okay, so, so, so eventually you might have, so what happened before, if you eventually did, like what happened before all of that eventuality? And by the way, if you don't know, is it possible that none of it happened? Well, that's my worry about this, because in cross, I mean, that's a, that's a disaster for cross examination because it's just all over the shop. And so there are some, some of what we're hearing there does make some kind of sense, not particularly in this one. I mean, we may have heard some stuff before that had some kind of sense to it, but this stuff under cross examination, I don't think is gonna go very, very well. And there might be a good reason why it's not gonna go well. Scott, what do you think? She's displaying, displaying tons of facial cues, lots of things that she should be doing, anger, disgust, contempt, worry, frustration, you name it, it's in this clip. I'm under the impression a lot of it is truthful. For example, when she says she barricaded the door, I think maybe she locked the door, but I think she's adding all these things onto it and that's why it seems and feels like we were talking about earlier. That's why some people watching us are gonna say, this just doesn't seem right. I know it looks right or something, but I don't know what it is. I'm not sure what it is, but something's just not right here. I think that's what it is. Her cadence is a little bit faster, her tone is high, and it's kind of restricted. And her gestures and illustrators lay in right where they should for the emotions she's displaying in this case, lots of micro expressions and flat out full on expressions of the emotions we should be seeing. But I think she's not being as dramatic as she should be, I think, as she is in these other ones. If somebody's doing all this, as far as it's happening, you say, I barricaded the door, I'd say it twice, I locked the door, I had to put stuff in front of the man, I had to barricade the door. I talked about putting stuff in front of her, what did she barricade the door with? I mean, that's what I, I had to push the dang dresser in front of the door to make sure he didn't stand, and I wouldn't be going to sleep. If I had to barricade the door, I wouldn't be going to sleep. Then she's not sure he can't get in through somewhere else, but she's barricading the door. Why didn't she go out through one of those other exits? It makes no sense to me. Makes no sense at all. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, if you're worried about your personal safety on the Maslow's pyramid, you're not worried about anything else above it. That's priority number one. Oh, this is, I'm just referring to the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And I think Scott, exactly what you were saying, I had the same thought this morning, writing down these things in my notes, barricading versus locking a door is an extremely adding on these details that never happened. And this speaks to the diagnosis that she received of histrionic personality disorder. And if you're on anti-anxiety, anti-depressant medications, and you're mixing that with a lot of cocaine or grapefruit, believe it or not, grapefruit is horrible to combine with a lot of those medications. Yeah, you're gonna have panic attacks, you're gonna wake up at night, and you're gonna need to take a couple of sleeping pills and maybe a bottle of Malbec, as she calls it. And so let's go through this really fast. I remember she's shifting to present tense, talking about shoving me, there's present tense in the throat, present tense holding me there. All her internal thoughts are crystal clear in her memory. Every single thought that she's ever processed, it's almost, I'm exaggerating a small bit here, but it's like she could recall the thread count of the living room rug, but doesn't know whether or not there was a fight. And she's saying in my recollection, it hadn't been that long, back to present tense, there's throat up against the fridge. I remember slapping him across the face. Now there's that term again, I remember what she used in her testimony 187 times, that she's back to past tense recall, I didn't count that myself, but Sadie actually counted that, the prime minister of behavior. Sadie, we love you. Shows a lot of disgust for this doctor. She's saying I'm being medicated as if it's against her will. And she kind of glances over at the jury to kind of just say, yeah, I'm getting medicated by this person. And she wants you to see this helpless person. She, of course, she willingly took these medications. The entire final 30 seconds of this video is horrible in my opinion. There's shifting artificial emotional expressions on the face every few seconds that I have never seen. This rapid thing, Scott was just talking about a few minutes ago, this rapid shift of facial expressions. And then there's unusual recall with this deliberate adding of very specific details, just exactly to feed a narrative. And there's force feeding of that same narrative of the helpless and perfect victim. I'm willing to bet, in my opinion, she got some legal advice that honey, you need to go all the way on this. You need to go 300% when you think you could. And if you're worried about perjury, all of this is gonna be extremely hard to prove. No one's gonna be able to prove it in the opposite direction. And I think maybe she was given some bad advice because this is gonna be horrible, I think, if Depp has competent counsel during the cross-examination. That's all I got, Greg? Yeah, the cross-examination on this is going to be brutal, in my opinion. Number one, because I've had all of this that she's putting out, just like you said, Chase, the more details you put out, the more there is to your story and the easier it is to attack. Number two, they get a week of watching game tape before they come back in. This is gonna be brutal, in my opinion. But here, word stress matters. I agree with everything you guys have said. I'm gonna add a few little nuances. Word stress matters. When a person stresses a word, in my old world, we would call that a source lead. When somebody said something, I'd go, they said something for a reason. She says, he shoves me, he shoves me. Hmm, that usually indicates there's been something happened before. When you say me and you emphasize me, there's probably been a little shoving back and forth. My guess is that's how all these things got to where they got. She feels prepared and she's editing as she's speaking. And she says, he has me up against the throat. This sounds like Roundsburg's mantra, dash, steering wheel, phone, whatever, you know, his little thing. She's doing the same thing. And then she gets out of sequence and she goes, she says, now he was, had me up against the wall. Then it was the fridge. And then she says, well, it was that area. We were moving in that area. That's excessive. Hey, the guy slammed me against the wall, had me by the throat. I don't need to hear that he moved you from the couch to this, to that. Again, more details. He let go of my grip. Does she mean he let go of his grip? Again, words are coming apart. We know that happens when a person's getting a little disjointed and they're walking through. Then she goes to the reason why all this is happening. He was medicating me for obvious reasons. I hope I don't really understand what that means. You should be able to tell I'm sane. I think it's what that means. Here's the last thing I'll leave you with. There is a almost 100% guarantee that if you have PTSD, one of the traits you'll have is hypervigilance. And that means that you're always concerned. You're always feeling on edge. You're always having all that problem. I've never known a person who had PTSD who would want to take sleeping pills and sleep near the imminent threat that caused them to be there to start with. Just, I don't see it. So we're on the same page there. That's it. He nailed it, yeah. I remember eventually in this interaction, he shoves me up against the fridge. He has me by the throat. And he just was holding me there by my throat. And I wondered if it was the drugs. I wondered if it was him. It hadn't, in my recollection, it hadn't been that long. He has me up against the throat. He's kind of bashing me against the wall next to the fridge. We're kind of moving in that area. And at some point, I'm in his face, and he had, I don't know if he had let go of my neck or loosened my grip, but I remember slapping him across the face, screaming at him. He's screaming at me. I got my hand free when he tried to grab me when I walked off. I stormed off, I slammed the door upstairs. I don't know if it was in that incense or if it was in the later one that I eventually barricaded the door. It wouldn't stop him from coming in. He could come in the other doors. There's plenty of, there's a back door, there's patio. But at least I'd hear it. And my, this is March, 2015, by this time, I'm being medicated by his doctors, giving me anti-anxiety meds, giving me, you know, had already tried to give me anti-depressants. They didn't work for obvious reasons, I hope. I wasn't sleeping. I had insomnia, I'd wake up with panic attacks. My, you know, I needed to sleep, but my ability to do so was really, really compromised at this point. And I kept thinking that I just wanted to hear him or know if he came in. So I could be aware, so I could be ready for what was gonna come in with him. And at some point I go back downstairs. I don't really know at what point I gave up and stayed behind my barricaded door, but I managed to go to sleep. I took some sleeping pills. That's what it was. He started to tell me that everyone had warned him about me and that he wish he had never married me, who wish he had never met me. No one liked me, you know, it sounds childish, but I remember feeling really hurt. And then at some point I shove him hard to get him off me and he shoved me back and he said, do you wanna go, little girl? I couldn't, as I sit here today, tell you if that happened before he choked me up against the wall, but at some point I am in a struggle with him where I'm holding his shirt lapel and he kind of just flings me for lack of a better way to describe it, throws me across the room. I land on a games table, it's like a ping-pong table. And I don't know if I was holding on to him or if he pursued me separate, but he gets on top of me on the games table and is just whacking me in the face, like repetitive. We struggle on the games table. I don't know how we get up. I don't know if he pulls me up. I wish I could tell you, but we were in this struggle down in this games room by the bar and we had this conversation about the drinking or argument about the drinking and he holds up this bottle to me and I'm saying, did you drink this whole thing? Something stupid focusing on this detail and he is telling me that I can't control him anymore and that if I really wanted to try, take it, and then he's taunting me to take the bottle from him, if I really want him to stop one night, why don't I take it from him, go on, go on. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, it's starting to get more honest in places now. Obviously, the stories are all over the place and I'm not even gonna get into that. There's disgust, there's disdain, and there's anger and more delicate chin boss action there which would suggest to me some real feelings there of disgust and disdain and anger and sorrow around no one liked me. He wishes he'd never married me, never met me and no one liked me. I think there is some true feeling that she has around that and then she eye blocks, she turns away and says how childish it all is and I think that's probably the most honest thing or the most insightful thing that has been said because it truly is childish what's happening here because I think we are seeing in my opinion something of this wounded child that's showing up now, this wounded child that feels nobody wants her, nobody loves her, nobody even likes her and the pain of that. Now that's getting extrapolated potentially out into all kinds of behavior and all kinds of stuff that is very, very troublesome but quite honestly at the core of this is a real true pain for that little girl that's truly there at this point. Greg, what do you think? Yeah, so you're dead on, she starts off by softening her body, language her head kinda tilts and when you take 13 pounds of dead weight and tilt it to your right, it softens your body, kinda crumples a little. The inner brow tips pointing up indicate sorrow and whatever causes the sorrow doesn't matter whether it's good or bad, you're gonna have those inner brow tips rise. Her eyes go down to that, down right to that emotional eye accessing if you have never seen this before sit and think about an emotional moment in your life and you'll find your head drifting down to your right. That head then is going to pull your body out of line and all that. She trails off when she says and she does your fading facts, got when she talks about childish because she knows how childish it sounds. Here's something big and we're gonna see this three times, three times in the videos you're gonna watch and this is an indicator of something big about to happen. She does this, she scrunches her mouth to the right and bites the inside of her mouth and it happens three times. It happens here just before the first major altercation downstairs before she breaks this bottle. We're gonna see it two other times. This to me makes me think yes, there's violence and yes, she's engaged in it if she didn't start it. Now, when we hear him talking about, her talking about sliding or being controlled and him talking about restraining, if she started the violence, you would expect he's gonna do something to restrain it. I'm not protecting him just saying violence starts somewhere and we see it in her here. We see that weird thing and we're gonna see it two more times as we go through this. Just pay attention to it. We said, do you wanna go little girl? When she does that, she bites her lip, she breaks eye contact, takes a deep breath and then she goes to the that. She pauses a little bit. I think that's its own now kind of mindset. And then she goes into that disclaimer again and she says, I can't tell you the order things went. Flings, there's no illustration whatsoever and she says he threw me, but she does show helplessness, palms up and that and then she goes to a calm voice. Go on, go on, go on. None of that seems to fit. You would expect more animation. You would expect people to be more aggressive. A couple of things to notice here. The attorney is sitting with data intake, just paying attention to what's going on. But if you notice that you see some concern in the brow of Johnny Depp and you see his mouth narrowing. This is really the crux of this brawl where he lost his finger, however it happened. So this is gonna be an interesting one to pay attention to. Chase, what do you got? Let's talk a little physics here for just a second. Picking up Amber, throwing her across a room, across a room and onto a table is pretty difficult. And then her testimony is that maybe he landed on top of me because I grabbed onto him. Because he is so strong that when he throws another person, it picks himself up and flings both of them across a room and they land onto a table. I thought that was pretty surprising, listening to this whole thing. And then it's back to the word starting. He's starting to tell me this. But I think there's some truthful recall that she was hurt by the comments about people not liking her. She's shifting to present tense again right at the point where I shoved him. She's saying I shoved him. And the conflicts in her memory are at the exact points when she wants to insert details about the timeline and the narrative. Then she's back to present. He throws me, I land, present tense, gets on top of me, whacking me in the face. We struggle, present tense. He holds up this bottle. Present tense again, makes a mistake. He holds up this bottle. She's narrating as if she's the one holding it. She accidentally, I think, shifts into first person of the aggressor here. She's the one holding the bottle. And actually, she accidentally slips here and says, did you drink this whole thing? He's not asking that of her. She's the one asking that of him while I think she's the one holding this bottle. I don't think he's holding the bottle at all. I'll go out on a limb here. I think she's holding the bottle and I think she's the one pressing him. Did you drink this whole thing? And she shifts back to present. He's taunting me to take the bottle back to present tense. And there's a deceptive mix of truth with deception being the deception being the added violence here, in my opinion. And I think there's this blend of three things. We could call it a verbal braid. We could do it a braid, a French braid maybe. It's a truth, half truth and deception. All being blended together so that it's hard to see where one stops and the other one starts. But I think if we're watching closely, listening to those shift intenses and we're listening to where these unusual gaps in memory and unusually detailed recall of memory are occurring, it's a pretty good bet that we're gonna spot some of this stuff. But if you're seeing these rapid changes in facial expressions like Scott was saying a minute ago, very, very unusual stuff. Scott, what do you think? Yeah, y'all covered most everything. So I'll go short on this one. In the beginning we're seeing plenty of discussed and contempt expressions. And disgust is the one you see when your noses are including your lips are sort of pursed and they come up like that. Sometimes your teeth will show if you've got a blend of emotions going there like anger, we'll see that sometimes. Most of the time her contempt shows up on the left side. I don't know why that is, but for most people it's on the right side, I think it's right side. For hers for some reasons on the left, she does some on the right, but a lot of it is on the left. That's the only asymmetric facial expression when you see something like that. The things she's talking about are the things that he said to her and about her that are negative. Again, she's the good person, he's the bad person. He's saying bad stuff about her. This personality type will not have that. They won't let you do that. She let it happen, he did it, but they won't let you get away with it without taking revenge on you for that. I think that's a lot of what we're seeing here as well. All right, that's all I got. That's what it was. He started to tell me that everyone had warned him about me and that he wish he had never married me, wish he had never met me. No one like me, it sounds childish, but I remember feeling really hurt and then at some point I shoved him hard to get him off me and he shoved me back and he said, do you want to go, little girl? I couldn't, as I sit here today, tell you if that happened before he choked me up against the wall, but at some point I am in like a struggle with him where I'm holding his shirt lapel and he kind of just flings me for lack of a better way to describe it, throws me across the room. I land on a games table, it's like a ping pong table and I don't know if I was holding on to him or if he pursued me separate, but he gets on top of me on the games table and is just whacking me in the face, like repetitive. We struggle on the games table, I don't know how we get up, I don't know if he pulls me up, I wish I could tell you, but we were in this struggle down in this games room by the bar and we had this conversation about the drinking or argument about the drinking and he holds up this bottle to me and I'm saying, did you drink this whole thing? Something stupid focusing on this detail and he is telling me that I can't control him anymore and that if I really wanted to try, take it and then he's taunting me to take the bottle from him. If I really want him to stop, why don't I take it from him, go on, go on. And kind of gesturing with the bottle towards me and like he does that two or three times, I reach for it, he revoke it, kind of laugh at me and he's holding out the bottle, I think like maybe the third time or so I get a hold of it. I pick it up and I slam it down on the ground right in between us is a tile floor, a white tile floor and I smashed the bottle on the floor and that really set him off. So stupid. What do you got? Yeah, really simple. We've got childish teasing going on and then unmoderated anger going on. She says, so stupid. Again, you couldn't be more accurate, more correct about this. It's the most adult thing that's being said here which is to do childish teasing around somebody who isn't gonna moderate their anger, both parties here, this is a really bad combination and so of course, we get what we get in this. We've got two people who are unmoderated and children, childish with somewhat of maybe an arrested development or there's certain drugs that get taken or a lifestyle that gets led and not having people around to help with that moderation. It's a really bad combination. Anyway, that really sets him off, she says. Well, that's very unspecific, isn't it? What do you mean? What do you mean sets him off? What happens during that? So again, I don't like the unspecific nature of that but I think what's being said here is actually very, very honest and perceptive about the situation that's going on. Scott, what do you think? All right, I'll talk about Johnny for a couple of minutes. He's adapting in his chair. We talked about that in the last show, how he sways back and forth a little bit. And then when he touches his head, that's similar to when somebody kind of sneaks an adapter when they're talking about something that they're uncomfortable or they're being put on point and they'll talk and say, well, I'll tell you what I think about so-and-so. And the adapter is something used to get rid of that built-up stress and or tension. And when you push on your face right there and let go, you'll feel that muscle kind of relaxed in there. You feel your face relaxed or when you push on your chin or your mouth, those types of things. The zibrow shoot up with that exacerbated facial expression, that's just always really uncomfortable with what she's saying. And the eyebrows also indicate the concern a lot of his deep breath that this really bothers him. So we can add those as adapters here as well. But overall, I think he's really ill at ease here. So I agree with you, Mark. I think this has probably got a lot of truth in it. Chase, what do you got? Got a lot of the same stuff. There's a lot of present tense here during very key points. I'll let you look at that. But there's also a shift to internal dialogue when her eyes move down and to her left. There's gaze aversion where she's looking away during very key points here. I'll let you take a look at what that is. But the emotional impact is perfectly timed with the eye contact of the jury. Perfectly timed so that she delivers to the camera, which is the jury. She delivers to the audience the exact emotional impact at the exact right time. And a lot of this is deviation. There's a lot of confirmation glances, unnecessary detail and repetition of the word floor right here. So we see repetition to make sure that I'm forcing visuals into a person's head. I'm forcing this person to visualize or think of something or construct an image in their head. That's all I got. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, I'm not going to add much. I agree with you guys. She touches her face once as she's trying to change direction when she says that really set him off. And I agree with you, Scott, watching Johnny Depp. You can see he does a heavy inhale, heavy exhale and hard eye contact. I associate that kind of with frustration. So I think that's what we're seeing. That's it. And kind of gesturing with the bottle towards me. And like, he does that two or three times. I reach for it. He revoke it, kind of laugh at me. And he's holding out the bottle. I think like maybe the third time or so I get a hold of it. I pick it up and I slam it down on the ground right in between us. There's a tile floor, a white tile floor. And I smashed the bottle on the floor and that really set him off. So stupid. I honestly don't remember if I threw anything in his direction. I don't think I did. I just remember him having me by the nightgown. I remember him flailing me, throwing me around. I'm flailing. This is after there were some bottles broken on the floor. This is actually after, again, forgive me, I wish I could remember the sequence, but it splashes. He's throwing these bottles at me. I remember retreating. There were also cans like soda cans, beer or soda cans. And they're coming at me one after the other and I keep pulling myself into the bar area. There's a bar behind me and like a, I don't know, like an L shape. He's standing in the only way you can exit. So I'm kind of trapped in front of the sink surrounded by bar on three sides with him in front of me. Ish, kind of front off to the left. And he's throwing these bottles one after the other and I can feel glass breaking behind me. I remember feeling one of them go by my head really fast. I mean, a real velocity. I remember being terrified. I remember I couldn't move. I couldn't go anywhere. I eventually trying to, he ran out of things to throw. I think that's how I moved myself towards the exit. And I believe that's most likely when we got kind of in this struggle by the bar area. All right, I'll go first on this one. We see another huge one-sided shoulder shrug. And like we talked about before, the indicates she's not totally comfortable with her answer. It doesn't really mean it's deceptive. There are no absolutes. That means just because somebody does something, scratches their nose or bites their mouth, it doesn't mean they're being deceptive or telling the truth. It's just one of those a cue you look for to add to a group of cues to make sure things are going in the direction you think they're going. The body on one side of her mouth seems to be an adapter at that point. But it falls right in line with all the other cues that she's displaying to show she's tentative, unsure, and uncomfortable. And she's displaying plenty of anger, disgust, and contempt cues, and a lot of what we've seen up to this point. And also there's that word again, remember. Here it is one more time. And let's pay attention to how it's being used up to this point. It's just here and there right now. It's not very often, it's apparently, but it's getting ready to go off the rails over here in a couple of minutes. So this is important, so start listening for it and start counting them when you hear them. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so that biting the side of the mouth, I agree with you, is typically an adapter. It's bigger than an adapter with her here because she does it three times in three videos and they're all pre-violence. If I am a child and I always do that and I get away with it, I'm probably gonna do that the rest of my life. And that's not an acting thing. She didn't learn that somewhere and that's part of a character she's prepared for. That's probably something as a little kid they would get after and she'd do, and they'd think it was cute or something, don't know. But what I will tell you is it shows up three times, all three times are pre-violence. Something that's an indicator in her case, just her case. Other one, she rubs her face and you would think she's got tears there or something. There was no tears in her face as far as we can see. She does one of the best denials I've seen in forever, meaning the worst. I honestly, one shoulder rise, don't think I did. Well, that's about as far as you can go to saying I did without saying it because we associate one shoulder, as Scott said, with not feeling certain or uncomfortable with what we're saying. And it's very pronounced in this case because she does this most of the time. I honestly, there's a qualifier so she's distancing and qualifying at the same time and then says, don't think I did. So she's got another cut away. That's a long sentence. She threw a bottle, clearly. I mean, this is now starting to look like maybe Johnny Depp's telling the truth. So we just have to follow it. She goes, I just remember inside of her mouth she bites that thing and then I'm almost certain she threw a bottle at him here and that's what started whatever happened here. Then she does a tongue jut at the end of him flailing or throwing her around, I'm flailing. She does a distaste. After some bottles broken on the floor. Well, that sounds a lot like, yeah, that's passive voice. There's a whole bunch of broken bottles. Then she goes into that again, forgive me. And she does a whine in her voice. She does a tense shift. There's more illustration about the bar and where she went than there is about the violence going on again. If I'm going to be that, use that many illustrators be that illustrative of what's going on. I'm probably gonna do some of the other piece. And then finally, what we see is what I always refer to as going down the well. And I've seen it in the interrogation room plenty of times a person starts finding a way to feel worse and make themselves more emotional and curl up into a ball and they do it all the time as a way to avoid the question, a way to avoid other things. And then I see her eye block, close her eyes as she starts talking about the struggle in the bar area. She's going down a well to prepare for this next thing that we'll cover, but that's a second time. Something's up with that specific piece of body launch. Chase, what do you got? This is a rare time that I will stake my reputation on this. This is deception. You don't hear me say it often. In my opinion, this is deception. This is what it looks like. More remembering, she's saying there's some broken bottles on the floor, forgets how completely forgets. We'll memorize the type of wood the floors are made of in the house, that the exact color and type of tiles, the table that she was thrown into, how many towels are in the dryer at that exact moment? I don't know how many details she can get except for how those bottles got broken. I think that we're skipping over some details here. And I think she's obsessing with how destructive he is. And this is likely distancing language that she's the one who probably created this mess. And it looks like she's making accusations of the things that he is saying that she did. She's just redirecting every single accusation backward. She redirects again to her problems with sequence. And this is the only time we see this is when the detail needs to be inserted. It flashes, there's an eye contact flutter avoidance where the eyes are just fluttering like Greg's screen right now, just avoidant. Never had that happen, ever. And she's saying, I remember retreating, shifting back to the present. There's a bar behind me, I'm trapped. He's throwing these bottles one after the other. I remember bottle breaking, terrified, couldn't move. I believe that's when we got in the struggle. When she's saying all this detail, this added detail and pretend confusion are a very classic case that's often seen in cases of malingering and faking or pretending memories. It's right here in the textbook. And they teach this, it's well reviewed, it's peer reviewed in multiple, I'm talking more than 50 academic articles that talk about this specific behavior and three or four of more of the behaviors that she's exhibiting here in this video that directly goes into fabricating stories and fabricating and mental illness, which is what we're seeing. Mark, anything? I think Mark's already been. Oh. No, you haven't? No, I haven't. Oh, okay, shoot, I thought I was talking. Okay, sorry, dude. No, yeah, look, well, I got not much to add, actually, Scott, because Chase, if your reputation is going down, then mine's going with you. Because I have up here big cluster of deception. And then over here, cluster of deception. I mean, it is just a massive, massive cluster of deception going on here. The only things I have to add into the list that everybody has given here is, look, we said right at the start that this disgust and disdain and some of the anger is a bit of a baseline for her. And I think that's about personality or potentially, in my opinion, personality disorder, potentially. But she masks it with her hand. She shows disgust and disdain and then she does a mask and blocks and then it shows again. So just another piece of deception there that we catch her in, an outbreath, big outbreath. E at the start, there's an indecision as to how to go about even talking about this stuff at the start. So there's clear self-monitoring around here, a clear understanding of, I'm gonna say something that might not be accurate and I really need to slow it down, work this out, protect myself, shade some of the feelings that I'm gonna have. So a big, big cluster there and what a massively different story than Johnny Depps. So there's nothing really that aligns about the two. Now, of course, one person could be lying and the other person could be telling the truth, okay? But they were both there at the same time and there's zero, I would say, alignment about this story. Zero alignment, which is really odd, huge deception. There, I'm going down with you, Chase. I honestly don't remember if I threw anything in his direction, I don't think I did. I just remember him having me by the nightgown. I remember him throwing me around, I'm flailing. This is after there were some bottles broken on the floor. This is actually after, again, forgive me, I wish I could remember the sequence, but it splashes. He's throwing these bottles at me. I remember retreating, there were also cans like soda cans, beer or soda cans, and they're coming at me one after the other and I keep pulling myself into the bar area. There's a bar behind me in like, I don't know, like an L shape, he's standing in the only way you can exit, so I'm kind of trapped in front of the sink, surrounded by bar on three sides with him in front of me-ish, kind of front off to the left and he's throwing these bottles one after the other and I can feel glass breaking behind me. I remember feeling one of them go by my head really fast, I mean, a real velocity. I remember being terrified. I remember I couldn't move, I couldn't go anywhere. I eventually, I'm trying to, I don't know, he ran out of things to throw, I think that's how I move myself towards the exit and I believe that's most likely when we got kind of in this struggle by the bar area. I'm on the countertop, it had me by the neck and he felt like he was on top of me and I'm looking at him in his eyes and I don't see him anymore. I don't see him anymore, it wasn't him, it was black. I've never been so scared of my life, it was black, I couldn't see him and he was looking at me and I was trying to get through to him, I was trying to say to him in some way that it was me was trying to get through to Johnny and I couldn't see him, I couldn't see him at all and my head was bashing against the back of the bar and I couldn't breathe and I remember trying to get up and I was slipping on the glass, my feet were slipping, my arms were slipping on the countertop and I remember just trying to get up so I could breathe, so I could tell him that he was really hurting me, I didn't think he knew what he was doing. I don't know how, I'm sorry, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't get through to him, I couldn't get up, I couldn't get up and I don't know how that ended, I don't know, I don't know how the next day I remember. All right, I'll go first on this one. Obviously Johnny is experiencing anger and we see that with his flared nostrils and that deep sniff he's taken and as for Amber, this is somebody who's trying to relay panic, she's panicked here but she's not panicked because of what happened, she's not relaying the panic she went through, she's relaying the panic she's in now because she doesn't think anybody believes her at this point. I think she's realizing this thing's out of hand and it's gotten away from her and she's panicked because, like Greg is, because the jury isn't buying it and she tries to create this monster, that's why there's so many breaks in there, she doesn't know what to say, she's decided, I'm going in, man, I'm gonna go in with this, all this crying and stuff and it's not working. We're not seeing any tears, there's no runny nose, nothing like that at all. And I think Greg's got some things about the tissue that she's using but we're not seeing the things we should see and that's mainly the tears and the runny nose and a red face. So she's trying to relay panic which she's panicked but she's not panicked about what she's talking about, she's panicked because she thinks she's spent all this time doing this and this is the crux of what's supposed to have happened, it's peaking here of how violent and how horrible he is and what he's done to her and her personality was supposed to watch her break down but it's not working because if you watch this and you didn't get a little bit of a, not maybe not a giggle, but if you didn't think that was really, really, really odd then I don't know what to tell you but keep in mind, we're not saying, we're just talking about the body language we're saying here, this is my opinion, nothing else. We know other people have gone through this and have it a lot worse than she's had it. Similar experiences and experiences a hundred thousand times worse than this that do experience this but I don't think that's what we're seeing here. I don't think she's experiencing that. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, I'm just gonna hit a couple of things because I think you hit a lot of them and I wanna leave a couple. You do see him showing stress movement and breathing and upset and eye contact. She's going down the well. She's doing that thing where she works herself down into a darker and darker place. I'll leave the eyes are black and all that stuff to you guys. She does cover her face like you would expect for a person who is going through something emotional. However, when a person's going through really emotional situations and really boiling down, typically they're gonna break eye contact. They're not gonna make hard eye contact as they're telling you the story. She does that. The other weird one for me is she raises her thing to wipe her face and she goes here. It's up here between her eyes. It's not patting an eye. It's not covering her nose. If I were going to put some chemical, menthol, any kind of mentholatum to make my eyes water, I would probably dab it right in the middle of my nose, not in my eye. Not saying that's what she's done, but it seems out of place. It seems like something is not right in terms of the overall delivery and then she does this patting in between her nose. People have asked, did she snort something possible? She put something in her nostril to make her nose snot up and all that kind of thing. But she shows little private time around something so emotional. And then the other weird one, she immediately goes from that terror face back to her baseline, that kind of negativity face. It's immediate. It's that quick. We don't see that usually. We see lingering and hanging on from there. Chase, what do you got? So back to present shift again. Geez, I'm on the countertop. Had me by the neck. There's past tense, a backwards past tense shift to past with no pronoun. There's no he had me by the neck. And when people have less pronouns, they're more likely to be deceptive and that's proven. I felt like he was on top of me. Well, was he? We don't know. And now it's back to the present moment. I'm looking in his eyes. I think this is partially truthful from seeing him at other times. So I'm thinking that she's pulling in data from a different experience into this current experience here. She's overacting the sadness and this is a line that she wants them to really feel. She's making eye contact with as many jurors as she possibly can. The sadness disappears and reappears from her face, which you do not see. We've all conducted tens of thousands hours of these interviews. I've never seen it. Don't know about you guys. Sadness disappearing and reappearing suddenly. Super weird. And she says, my head was bashing against the back of the bar. No perpetrator there. She doesn't talk about who was doing that. So that's distancing language. And she's describing basically a scene from Die Hard. There's no injuries. She's describing somebody who was punched, slammed onto a bar, thrown across broken glass, naked, walked across this broken glass, naked. And then emerged without a single scratch on their body. It's Bruce Willis is what we're seeing here. And then again, there's no tears whatsoever. Shifting emotions that are back and forth. And then she mounds the F word with her apology to the jury with a disgust expression. And I'll let you be the judge of what she's really disgusted about it, that inwardly focused or maybe outwardly focused. But right at the very end of this clip, you'll see this little elbow movement here with both of her elbows and that's a ventilation gesture. You're more likely to see that after a person is going through something that's very stressful. But keep in mind, deception is very stressful, especially when you know that there's a camera on you and that whatever you do in that moment it's gonna live in perpetuity. I'm feeling it right now because I want YouTube. I'm not, my camera's letting me down. Stay with us, Greg, stay with us. We're almost there. Yes, I agree, Chase. It felt like he was on top of me. Well, yeah, that feeling may well be true, but it doesn't mean the actual physical act was actually happening. Though the feeling of somebody on top of you could absolutely be true, doesn't mean it's actually happening. I don't see him anymore. It wasn't him, it was black. Now this for me is really important that at this point in the story, Johnny disappears. She's creating this narrative, this idea that Johnny has gone. I've never been so scared in my life, it was black. So she's entered in, now this is past tense again. So again, now I'm worried. You remember right at the start, I was saying, hey, you know, somebody's experienced trauma, they can be in present tense talking about history. This is the moment when she's never been so scared in her life and it's now fully in past tense. So it doesn't make any sense. This would be the moment where you'd go, I'm scared for my life. Yeah, it's black, yeah. Now, what is this idea of the blackness and Johnny disappearing at this point? I think this is a strategy. She should know and her counsel should well know that Johnny Depp, the jury are gonna be biased towards Johnny Depp. They are, of course they are for all kinds of reasons. The best jury in the world is going to like Johnny Depp more than they like Amber. If we would have gamble on that, you know, there's so many reasons why that shouldn't be true, but I think it's a fair gamble that it's gonna be true. And so we need to give that jury an excuse to go against him. If Amber's to win this one, we need to give them an excuse to go against him. Well, what if he's not there? What if it's not Johnny? It's just like Johnny's body. It's just his body is there. Johnny's gone and he's kind of possessed. It's almost demonic possession or he's disappeared. Well, as a jury that we could then go, yeah, I think he was, you know, domestically violent, but it's not really him. So we haven't really said anything bad about Johnny Depp because we don't wanna say anything bad about Johnny Depp. I think it's potentially a really smart tactic to try and get some kind of bias back from the jury and maybe the public as well. So interesting, but of course, I think what happens because it's now in the world of demonic possession, it's now hit the level of horror movie and she has to create this melodramatic story, melodramatic performance to make that horror movie level of I looked into the blackness and Johnny was gone and all there was was the abyss in front of me. She's gotta create a big performance around that and that's not, I think, her style. That's not the way she does really well as a performer. So it doesn't really work for her, in my opinion. I'm on the countertop. It had me by the neck and he felt like he was on top of me and I'm looking at him in his eyes and I don't see him anymore. I don't see him anymore. It wasn't him, it was black. I've never been so scared of my life, black. I couldn't see him and he was looking at me and I was trying to get through to him. I was trying to say to him in some way that it was me, I was trying to get through to Johnny and I couldn't see him, I couldn't see him at all. And my head was bashing against the back of the bar and I couldn't breathe and I remember trying to get up and I was slipping on the glass, my feet were slipping, my arms were slipping on the countertop and I remember just trying to get up so I could breathe, so I could tell him that he was really hurting me. I didn't think he knew what he was doing. I don't know how. I couldn't breathe, I couldn't get through to him, I couldn't get up, I couldn't get up and I don't know how that ended, I don't know. Let's throw around the room and talk about in 30 seconds or less what we think is going on here, what we've seen up at this point, sort of a wrap up. Mark, you wanna go first? Yeah, I can see all kinds of reasons why she could be being honest and all kinds of reasons why she could be being deceptive here. There is a huge cluster of deception around that really important story about the bottle and then this melodramatic horror movie at the end. I don't like the smell of it, I don't like it at all. Chase. I will say one thing just to consider, people that are highly dissociative and a lot of her memories that she's talking about, I don't feel like I was there, I couldn't hear anything. People who have a higher dissociative capacity are less likely to go in my experience and in my training, less likely to go into first person when they're recalling trauma, just maybe a likelihood. And I will just wrap with this. If you're not a subscriber and this is your first video, we have never ever been this certain and this convinced about a person since we were reviewing somebody and we were all convinced they were telling the truth. That was over a year ago. So this is an unprecedented, just about unprecedented event for a lot of us here, Greg. Ah, Mark, that feels like a bias, doesn't it? I saw it, I saw it. Oh, you did do that, you did that for Greg, you don't do that for Chase. It's funny, it showed up on my screen to say you're muted. Sorry, I got it at the same time. So yeah, look, what we're not saying is she's lying about every element of what she's doing. What we are saying is we looked at a good solid baseline and we looked at deviation in baseline as she's storytelling. The storytelling got a little more elaborate as she went and there were some really good indicators that something is going on in two of those very violent moments. If I go back and take my original premise, she is more demonstrative about having her feelings hurt than she is about being punched, dragged around or flailed around or flying around, then we have to worry about which parts of those are real. And so for me to look at no slap, no slap indicators, no punch indicators, but a lot of indicators around throwing bottles and throwing cans and those things makes me think there's a hell of a lot of volatility, don't know who started what, where it went to, but then when she does that one most pronounced as far as I remember, did not throw a bottle honestly. Then I think, okay, well, maybe Johnny Depp talking about his hand on the bar and a bottle hitting him sounds a lot more practical. So she didn't want any friends or among this group. We are pretty certain there's deception to return. Scott, what do you got? Yeah, I agree with all you guys. And it seems like she was telling, she was being more honest. We saw less deception when she had less movement, which is really odd as well. The more calm she was, the more we saw less deception. In most of them, there's a couple of them that didn't work, which is all flailing around and acting, man, it's all over. I think it's a great study in seeing someone act like they have something wrong with them when they don't. I think it's a great study of seeing someone put good or good against evil and create that, try to create that thing. I don't think her lawyers, as much as she's probably paying them are that good because they wouldn't let that happen. I don't think they, and we know this, they would have tightened that story up. They would have gotten everything tight and there's nothing tight about what she was talking about in there, nothing. I don't know if they were treating her because she's a movie star or whatever, but I don't think her attorneys were that good. Nobody would have. We wouldn't let somebody go out there and do that. You kidding me? And you can see it was not that we couldn't tell they were gonna do that, but we would have made sure. And the next day after they did something like this, we said, listen, man, don't be doing that. Here's what you gotta do, try to do this. I don't think she had any correction on anything either. So I think she's really getting the short end of the stick as far as attorneys go in this case. But I still think it's a great study in good against evil and somebody controlling themselves. Like, as for a guy who's not supposed to be able to control himself and get out of whack and all that, he sure is under control in court. While she's saying all these things about him, true or false, he sure is under control at that point. And that's fairly impressive, I think. Now, keep in mind, as we've talked about all these things, we're just telling you what we see and what we think about the body language we're seeing in this. We know there are people who've experienced things similar to this and hundreds of thousand times worse than this that they'll never get over. We know that. So keep that in mind before you go in there and go, you guys don't understand this or that. We understand, we get it, I promise you. So if somebody's treating you that way, get some help. Make sure you get out there and get some help or that don't let anybody do you that way. No matter how you feel about him when it's over and you think it's fine or whatever, you get that taken care of. That's very important, very important. Nobody should be treated that way, nobody.