 In this moment, I'm doing the recuperation of some animals. 135 hostages are still being held inside Garza. The families of some of the hostages have demanded a meeting with the Prime Minister. This is the day after the Mossad Chief, David Barnea, cancelled a trip to Doha. It had been thought that he would go there to negotiate another ceasefire agreement and the release of more hostages. We're going to go down to Central Tel Aviv. Jonathan Regev is with some of the families of the hostages and is with us now. Jonathan, what's happening? We can see a large Hanukia behind you there. Yes, Laura, that is correct. You can see it right there behind me. A very big Hanukia, a very big candlelighting here. It's the eighth and final candlelighting of a Hanukia, obviously a very somber holiday this time. It's not the festive occasion that we see every year. This is the last candle of the day and in just a few minutes we're expecting a president, Isaac Herzog, to arrive here, perhaps also to address the people. We're hearing people speaking here on stage addressing the people. Families are also meeting today with the delegates from the Red Cross who are here in Israel. A lot of criticism on the role of the Red Cross saying they definitely are not doing enough for the people still in Gaza. For the hostages, we're hearing the sirens on the streets, I mean. Meaning President Isaac Herzog is on his way here to mark the final day of Hanukia and as we said, a somber occasion this year. Absolutely. And Jonathan, there does seem to be a bit of a debate going on in Israel between whether the army should prioritize trying to rescue hostages rather than airstrikes or trying to kill as many Hamas terrorists as possible. Would you agree with that? That is right. It's a big debate and we saw various soldiers killed earlier this week in an operation which possibly could have been done from the air. But it eventually happened from the ground. As we speak, Laura, I'll look around, look back. And I think President Isaac Herzog is set to arrive here after meeting family members. And there he is. We can see him right behind us. And this is the occasion here. This is what is happening here at Hostage Square. All right, Jonathan. Thanks very much. You can see Israel's President Herzog. He's arrived in Central Tel Aviv. He's meeting with the families of some of the hostages. 135 people are still being held by terrorists in Gaza. Well, with me in the studio this hour, Dr. Michael Oren is the former Israeli ambassador to the United States. Great to have you with us again, Michael. Let's talk about Jake Sullivan, a Biden envoy who's here in Israel tonight. He's been meeting with the Defense Minister Yoav Gallant. Gallant has told him that, look, this war with Hamas will take a lot more than a few months. Do you think that's what the Americans are expecting to hear? Maybe they were expecting to hear it, Laura, but I don't think they're happy to hear it. I think they want this to be wrapped up as soon as possible. It's costing the administration in terms of votes. And while they are at one point saying, you know, there's no stopwatch here, one does feel that a clock is ticking all the time. And they are also concerned about the possibility of Israel opening a second front in the north. And there have been intimations of this by our national security adviser, Sachi Enegbi, and others. And I personally have been very favor of it. We can't go back to the status quo ante in the north. No one will live in Matula or in Kirchmone anymore. So these are of great concerns to the Americans. Also, this notion that Israel is not quite conforming with international law and is quote unquote killing too many Palestinians. That's a quote from the Secretary of State. Right. And another headache perhaps for the Americans is this poll out which shows that the vast majority of Palestinians, both in Gaza and in the West Bank, support not only Hamas, but supported the October 7th attacks. Not surprised. I'm sure you weren't surprised. I wasn't surprised. It's really not surprised. I don't think anybody. I'm sure Jake Sullivan wasn't terribly surprised. He's a very knowledgeable individual. Listen, there's good news and bad news. What can I say? The bad news is that the administration is speaking in two different voices. The good news is that both voices are very, very clear. So what is it? The bad news is one part of the administration, like John Kirby, the spokesman for the National Security Council. Matt Miller, the spokesman for the State Department is saying, you know, Israel, we're right behind you. Israel was conforming with international law. If it was America in this position, we would cause far more damage than the Israelis would. The other part of the administration, Vice President Kamala Harris, occasionally Secretary of State Tony Blinken are saying that Israel is causing too much damage. It's too many Palestinians getting killed. And here we have the President of the United States the other night saying to a group of Jewish Democratic donors saying that Israel was indiscriminately bombing in Gaza and causing us damage. The message to the world is that we are violating international law and that we aren't telling the truth about it. So it's a double problem and it creates a situation where Security Council resolutions can actually come out of this accusation that we are violating international law. It puts the United States in a position of vetoing the resolutions which in itself helped to motivate. So it's very difficult to follow. What we can deduce from this is that at the end of the day this administration would like to see this wrapped up. It's costing them politically at a very delicate time for this President as he enters an election year. Right. And to what extent is that American pressure affecting Israel's military strategy, do you think? I'm thinking of yesterday nine soldiers from the Galani Brigade including a commander fell. They were killed in a booby-trapped building. They tried to go in there to clear the building of terrorists. Now some people are saying, well, if that building had been bombed in an air strike those soldiers would still be alive. Is that due to American pressure, do you think? Or is that something else? I think it's also the nature of our army. We are a moral army and we operate according to a code. But this area is supposed to be cleared of civilians. This Shajia neighborhood. I understand. And I think that America's criticism of us, the criticism by the President and other members of administration, intimating, not just intimating, insinuating that we are violating international law by killing, by indiscriminately bombing is very hurtful. We're paying a huge price in terms of our soldiers' lives by not bombing indiscriminately. We could flatten Gaza very, very easily. Instead, we send our soldiers in building by building and risk their lives and someone lose their lives going by these buildings. So I think this is a point that has to be made publicly more strenuously, both in terms of our public diplomacy but also in terms of our back-channel contact with this administration. Stop this. Stop this. First of all, it's inaccurate. Secondly, it's unjust. But thirdly, it's actually damaging. It's damaging to our war effort and creating problems for you in the Security Council and other places. Well, it seems that America has placed a lot of conditions on Israel to win this war. It wants it to defeat Hamas. It wants it to do it within a certain timeframe. It wants it to do it without either displacing or killing civilians. I mean, has any other army had to operate under these conditions? They don't. Is the American support hurting Israel more than it's helping at this point? Let's be candid about this. Okay. If you would have asked the majority of Israelis on the 6th of October, was Israel capable of defending ourselves by ourselves against any Middle Eastern threat? We'd say, of course. On October 7th, everything changes. Suddenly, we realize that we can't defend ourselves entirely by ourselves. And only if there are many Israelis who are willing to say to the USS Ford and the USS Eisenhower, okay, we're handling this. You guys can go home. No one's willing to say that. And that gives the United States leverage. It gives them a seat at our security cabinet table. It gives them a much greater say in the way this war is being conducted than if we could handle this all by ourselves. And at the risk of citing the old cliche, those just think it's a free lunch. We're getting services. We're having US naval vessels taking down missiles that are fired at us by pro-Iranian proxies in the Middle East and Yemen. That comes at a certain price. How much of an impact is this having on the US elections? We are, as you say, heading into an election year in the United States. How worried do you think the Democrats are about what's happening? Well, the president got a bit of a bump about nine points, about a week ago, which may be showed that the reaction of the public is a little bit more nuanced than certainly the press had analyzed. But the general trend has been to lose points because of the president's support for us. And it's not just losing points, it's where the points are lost. One journalist friend said to me, the issue for the administration is no longer Gaza, it's Michigan. So it's these key states. It's Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, which have, among other things, a high percentage of young Democrats and a high percentage of Muslims and Arab-Americans and people from other ethnicities who tend to support the Palestinian cause. And that is where the loss is being felt. So remember, keep in mind, administration is not just one person. Administration is thousands of things, tens of thousands of people who are looking to the president saying, why are you jeopardizing our future? Why are you jeopardizing us our jobs for this war, which we don't think is particularly just from the Israeli side? And, you know, stop it. Get a ceasefire. Yeah, are you worried about the generational shift in attitudes towards Israel in the United States? There are polls which show, you know, overwhelmingly there is more support for Israel among older people in the US and there is among younger people when the level of support drops off substantially. You've got to take that in the context I guess with the fact that Qatar is the number one donor to American colleges. Perhaps that has also played a part. Everything plays a part. The fact that matters, you know, today to be pro-Palestinian is cool. And there's always a cool factor. People underestimate the cool factor. It was cool to support Israel, wasn't it? Back in the 60s. Oh, boy, it was. It was once very cool to be Zionist. Yes, of course. But, you know, here's the good news. The good news of those Generation X, right? Generation Z, those people. Someday, they're going to be like boomers. And as they get older, they'll see the world, I think, in a very different and nuanced way. And the chances of them coming over to our side are very great. Certainly if we see less Qatari money flowing into the United States perhaps. Michael, no, thank you very much. Michael Orrin there. Well, let's go to the south of Israel. Our guy, Azrael, is with us with the latest on the fighting inside Gaza guy. Laura, it has been another evening of fighting here in the northern part of the Gaza Strip, not just in Ganyunis in the south. We have heard the artillery. We've been seeing flurs in the air just a short while ago. And then Hebrew hoods. It's what seems to be like Sa'ja'i in the central part of the Gaza Strip. That is, of course, where that very serious incident took place just two days ago with nine Israeli troops lost their lives in a well-planned, booby-trapped compound of the Hamas-Tur group. So the fighting is still very much ongoing, not just in the south. Also here in the northern part of the Gaza Strip, an area that the IDF has penetrated almost over 40 days ago. So this is taking time. And it goes together with the statements that we heard from Israeli Defense Minister Yav Galant just this evening in his meeting with National Security Advisor Jack Sullivan that the Hamas-Tur group has built itself for years and therefore it is going to take more than a few months to eliminate Hamas. The results are what we're seeing on the ground. Also confirmation a short while ago from the IDF that eight Israeli troops were seriously wounded today in battles across the Gaza Strip. Most of them in the southern part of the Strip as the IDF attempts to put more pressure on Hamas. I made certain reports of negotiations perhaps for another hostage deal in the coming weeks. That is at least from Qatari sources saying that Israel has put on new offers on the table trying to bring about to the release of more Israeli hostages. We do know that at least 135 of them are still at the hands of Hamas. And that is one of the goals of Israel in this war not just to eliminate Hamas but also to bring back all those Israelis that were taken captive by Hamas on October 7th. Guy, thank you very much indeed. Guy Azrael there. Ambassador Michael Oren is with me. This war is taking a terrible toll isn't it on the IDF, 115 soldiers have been killed and we're hearing another eight wounded today seriously wounded and many, many hundreds of soldiers are wounded. Yes, thousands actually. Thousands. Yes, and the years when I was in government and I was dealing with the Gaza issue and after every round of fighting with Hamas the issue came up, was Israel prepared to go into Gaza? And the estimates for the number of casualties we would sustain was something in the area of 500 killed. This is not to say that we are below that level right now because we may not even be at the beginning of this war. We'll see how long this war is going to go. But this level of casualties, this is what I want to say was to be expected, to be expected and to be feared. We're dealing with an enemy who is deeply embedded underground over 300 miles of tunnels. Some of them go down 200 meters, it's huge. And everything is booby trapped. Everything, the Coke bottles are booby trapped. The baby bottles are booby trapped. Everything, everything. And no matter how cautiously you proceed the chances of you stepping on a booby trap will be coming at the time that you do not see that emerges from behind you and terrorists come out and ambushes you from behind. I spent a long time fighting in Gaza myself, not during this round of course, but, and it's hell, it is simply hell. Everyone says the same word when defined what it's like in Gaza, it is hell. And of course 135, a hostage is still being held. All right, thank you. Well, Washington has made it clear it does not want the war in Gaza to spiral into a regional conflict, but is it too late for that? Yemen's Houthi-backed rebels, Iranian-backed rebels, the Houthis, I should say, have been attacking and harassing international shipping in the Red Sea for weeks now in solidarity with Gaza. The U.S. envoy for Yemen says Washington now wants to form an international maritime coalition to protect shipping. Iran though says such a move would be irrational, warning it would be faced with extraordinary problems. We're joined by Ben and Ben Taliblu. He's a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, the FTD. Thank you for being with us, Ben. So what about this U.S. plan? Would such a force be enough to deter the Houthis from further attacks on shipping? Well, it's a pleasure to be with you. There's already no shortage of different task forces in the Persian Gulf, in the Strait of Hormuz, in the Indian Ocean, in the in and around the Babel Mendab, in the Gulf of Baden. The question is, can the U.S. really function as a force multiplier here and as a security coordinator here, bringing more members of the international community to help patrol the Red Sea as the Houthis look to essentially effectuate a blockade of source through these harassment attacks of commercial vessels and tankers that they allege are going to Israel or that they try to find some Israeli beneficial ownership to. So here, obviously, the U.S. has the outside interests of continuing to protect the global territory and continuing to try to find ways to act on deterring Iran from exporting what was a very successful, unfortunately, anti-access area denial strategy in the Persian Gulf and Strait of Hormuz to the Red Sea. So it's not just deploying these task forces, it's making them more robust, more interconnected and actually having them be able to respond to these kind of harassment attacks that seem to continue. And Bedin, what do you read that into the response to this? It's certainly trying to pull every diplomatic and political card possible to make sure that every U.S. partner, every U.S. ally in the region is not integrated, is not connected, does not share the same politically salient threshold for the use of force or does not have the same protocols when it comes to self-defense. Just for example, earlier this weekend the French Navy actually even intercepted an unmanned aerial system that was launched by the Houthis. So the Iranians are trying to prevent any active coordination role that the U.S. is taking. But beyond coordination and beyond deterrence by denial, the outside question is will the Iranians even back down until they see deterrence by punishment? And that remains an open question. So do you think that nothing short of an attack on the Houthis on their own turf would be enough to deter them? Even that would have to be sustained. Let me just take you back to 2016 where a very similar vessel, the one by the Houthi rebels with Iranian provided Chinese anti-ship cruise missile. So it was the C-801 or C-802 anti-ship cruise missile. The Houthis were then and remain now in possession of anti-ship capabilities and continue to pose a threat to maritime interests and U.S. address in the Red Sea. So nothing short of actually responding in a way that the adversary things would be sustained over time is going to eliminate that threat. You just have to calcify the image and one way you do it is to have a robust architecture of denial like the task force the U.S. wants to integrate and set up and to respond more than once and more than quote-unquote in a pinprick fashion. Ben and Ben Talibli, thank you very much. Thank you. Meanwhile U.S. interests are increasingly under fire in Iraq. Baghdad says it has arrested several attackers who fired rockets at the U.S. Embassy just last week. Ntifad Kambar is the president of the Russia Foundation Washington, D.C. and a former spokesman for the Deputy Prime Minister of Iraq. Great to see you again Ntifad. So investigators in Baghdad say that these attackers actually had links to the Iraqi security services. What's going on? Hi Laura, well I tell you one thing Yahya Rasul which is the spokesman for the Armed Forces of Iraq put a tweet the day that attack happened and in which he described them as terrorists then he removed terrorists and corrected his tweet which tells you how he's scared of them. The word, the statement by Yahya Rasul today that they belong to security forces is a code word for belonging to the Iranian backed Hashdeshah. The problem here, you have these groups which is these attacks are go ahead. Sorry Ntifad, carry on. We did have a little bit of a sound problem but I think you're back now. You're good Ntifad, carry on. Sorry about that. The Qatab Hezbollah at Najaba these are the two main usual suspects. They use a surname, another group which is unknown, it's called Ashab Al-Kahab, the people of the cave. And anyway those are on Iraqi government payroll. The fact that the Iraqi government refused to announce their names any country in the world where they arrest a terrorist or people use this kind of action against the government, against the US embassy, they should be announced their names, they should be put on TV at least. The fact they refuse to put their names out gives very little credibility to this action. I think this is only an action taken to appease or to feel good in front of the United States because the Prime Minister of Iraq tried to hold the stick from the middle between the US and Iran. But we know that the current government in Iraq is 100% controlled by Iran and there's nothing he can do to punish or to hurt those people who are committing acts against the government against diplomatic missions in Iraq including the US embassy. Well, I mean what effect is that having on Iraq in the middle of this tug of war if you like between Iran and the United States? Well, the United States has promoted this current government in Washington heavily as a stability government. The Prime Minister Mohammad Issyar Sidani tried to portray himself as a person who's interested in fighting corruption and encouraging investment. This kind of acts, there's no way anybody will any country or any company will invest in Iraq under this kind of circumstances. So you have in Iraq the government that you see on TV led by Prime Minister Issyar Sidani which I admit he's doing his best but he cannot counter Iranians pressure and Iranian militia second government which is equivalent like the IRGC in Iran. That is the problem. The government of Iraq is incapable of standing in the face of the militias who controls the government from under from the behind and they are backed by Iran and they are managed and micromanaged by Iran. Well, the Americans have made it clear that they don't want to get more interested. They don't want to commit themselves further to this region. They pulled out of Iraq. They don't seem to have any interest to go back into Iraq. What could Washington do to reassert its control there? Well, what's happening is the Biden's misstation trying to live the fiction that Iraq is a stable country and they thought they can go to as the Biden goes through the elections and claim that they had a stable Iraq. We saw what Jack Sullivan said in the Atlantic Council before the October 7th massacre. He said that the Middle East has never been quieter. But guess what? Iran responded and Hamas killed innocent Israelis and all this theory of having a quiet or a quieter Middle East has collapsed in one second and Israel has to respond and take action and the United States has to be becoming a very awkward position. They continue to try to defend their awkward position by trying to say that Iraq is a state of law, that Iraq is a stable country. But believe me, not even a child in Baghdad would believe that the arrest that was announced today was real and has any meaning. We know this is a show that nobody is going to buy and we know these militias who are on government, Iraqi government payroll are going to continue to cause mayhem and attack Americans and even Iraqi citizens. Thank you very much. Ambassador Michael Orrin, it seems that the United States is doing everything it cannot to tackle Iran head on. Have you noticed that? I lost count of attacks that American bases in Iraq and Syria sustained from pro-Iranian proxies something about 85 to 90 attacks and there's all sorts of provocations you saw in the Straits of Hormuz and now through proxies Bab Al-Mandeb, Bab Al-Mandeb through the Houthis, which is through which basically half of the world's oil supplies go through those Straits. Yes, they're fighting tooth and nail not to say that the pivot to Iran which was the policy which the Obama administration embarked on in its first week in office we're talking about February 2009 and saying those Israelis, and we gave them a lot of support and they made settlements and those Sunnis, we gave them a lot of support and let's pivot to this country which is basically pro-American, it's got a little bit of a problematic leadership, it's got this annoying nuclear program if we can just sort of get over the nuclear issue and engage that problematic leadership and that leadership could become what quote-unquote a responsible regional power it is very difficult, there's 15 years to turn around and say this policy has objectively failed. Well, that's what Trump did, isn't it? He did try, but it went back so the irony of it is, Laura that pivot was designed to enable America to disengage from the Middle East America wasn't dependent on Middle East oil anymore and what has happened is that policy has brought America back to the Middle East. So do you think America's back even if an isolationist president is to win the next election? Well, the only issue with it and what Republicans and Democrats agree in Washington is often isolationism but the fact matters that this president has sent two very large carrier strike forces and they're engaged actually in combat and they're taking down missiles fired at us and they may be engaged further, they're not here for show. And there hasn't been opposition by the Republicans to this move, very, very little opposition. So America is back America's back, but America's back because of Iran and no one's willing to admit that, I can't see so far in the White House. Alright, Ambassador Oren, thank you very much. We're going to take a very short break. Do stay with us as much as possible to come here on I-24 News. In a state of war, families completely done down in their beds. We have no idea where she is. Our soldiers are fighting on the front lines, but the general perception is something that certainly needs to to be fought as well. For News Israel's Defense Minister Jo Avgallant has told senior Washington envoy Jake Sullivan that the war against Hamas will take more than several months and the UN agency for Palestinians UNRWA has hit out at Switzerland over its move to cut funding. We'll start there. The head of the UN's Palestinian refugee agency UNRWA has denounced a move by Switzerland to cut aid to the body. UNRWA Chief Philip Lazarini deplored the agency's chronic underfunding. UNRWA does have a budget of over a billion dollars a year. It runs most of the schools in Gaza, including those where terrorist activities have been uncovered by the IDF. Israeli hostage told a journalist that he had been held captive by an UNRWA teacher. Joining me now, Hillel Neuer is the Executive Director of United Nations Watch. Great to have you with us Hillel. So Switzerland first of all has been UNRWA's ninth largest donor in the world. What drove them to make this move to cut the aid? According to the latest information the Swiss Senate decided not to approve the decision of the lower house, but having said that, the decision of the National Council of Switzerland to cut the aid is very significant. The Member of Parliament who brought the motion, whose name is David Zuber-Buller said quote, it's an open secret that in UNRWA schools they continue to glorify terrorism and violence and promote anti-Semitism. This is the words of the Swiss MP. He said a majority of the National Council has finally recognized this. So certainly our organization, UN Watch which is based in Switzerland, we have published numerous times in Swiss media the fact that UNRWA teachers systematically incite to anti-Semitism the fact that UNRWA schools have been used by Hamas to hide rockets to hide weapons. So all of this is known in Switzerland and I think it's quite significant that the lower house has taken this step at this time, even if so far this Senate has not approved it. Alright, so this move by the Swedish lawmakers, Swiss lawmakers, sorry. Can we expect other European countries to follow suit, do you think? I think certainly the Swiss decision of the lower house was publicized around the world. I did see many other countries asking what about us and I think it is time. Bear in mind something that has often been forgotten. Two years ago the head of UNRWA in Gaza, his name was Matias Schmel. He gave an interview where he unwittingly acknowledged that Israel complies with the laws of war. He was asked if Israel's strikes back in 2021 were precise. He said yes, they were very precise meaning they only targeted Hamas terrorists and they did target civilians. For saying the truth he was pilloried by Hamas in the media in Gaza. He was declared persona non-grata him and his deputy of UNRWA had to flee Gaza. They were unable to stay, they had to leave their job. So the head of Hamas actually decided who would head UNRWA in Gaza. Moreover, and this Laura is really important, Lenny Stentzef, who was a Norwegian, former Norwegian diplomat, she is took over his job, Matias Schmel. She went to Gaza, she met with Yahya Sinoir. So the evil terrorist who, the mastermind who orchestrated the mass rape and killings and she was deputy commissioner general Lenny Stentzef, met with Sinoir and said basically she apologized according to reports from the meeting which she has never disputed. She apologized for what her deputy, for what her predecessor Matias Schmel had said, which was the truth and basically in so many words pledged allegiance to work closely with Hamas and sort of never to say bad things about the Hamas narrative again. This is the deputy commissioner general of UNRWA had met with Yahya Sinoir and basically in my interpretation pledged allegiance. This is UNRWA. Wow. Okay. I mean, UNRWA is unique anyway, isn't it? It's the only refugee agency that looks after the descendants of refugees. As I mentioned in the introduction its budget is about $1 billion a year, largely coming from American and European taxpayers. What does it actually do for the Palestinian people? Because that's an awful lot of money, isn't it, for any aid agency? Well, yeah. I mean, you know actually it's the Swiss foreign minister again, Switzerland, five years ago Ignacio Cassis after visiting UNRWA facilities in the region he said UNRWA is part of the problem, not part of the solution. As you said, Laura, he said they're perpetuating the refugee problem. They're not solving it. And he said the fact that we're paying for it is perverse. So unlike the UNRWA agency, which was also in Geneva, the UNHCR their job is to resettle refugees to make you no longer a refugee. UNRWA is the opposite. They've taken what were a few hundred thousand refugees back in 1948, 49 and made them into six or seven million and they're doing everything not to resettle them. So if someone from Gaza wants to flee and go to America or to the West, UNRWA will say no you are always a refugee and you always need to go back to pre-1967 Israel. So they speak of a two-state solution but the UNRWA narrative is basically to dismantle Israel itself. Right. There's only one UN agency isn't there to look after all of the other refugees in the world but only UNRWA takes care of Palestinian refugees. As you say, if UNRWA is part of the rebuilding in the future of Gaza will anything change? That is a very good question. I mean the truth is they are the largest agency so for many Europeans and others they assume it's natural to ask them to step in but given the narrative, given as I said that when someone said one word that was true in an interview for maybe 20 seconds he acknowledged that it was true that Israel's actions were precise he was forced to leave an agency like that which is so dependent on a terrorist group cannot be trusted to take care of civilian matters that are for the benefit of the Palestinian population let alone the UN's own principles of neutrality and humanitarianism. Now you've been talking about this for many years but do you think this war has opened a lot of people's eyes as to what exactly UNRWA is? I do think there are a number of people around the world the fact that again that the majority a large majority in the lower house of the Swiss parliament voted to defund UNRWA shows that we've reached a certain point by the way that's happened on the same day that Switzerland voted to ban Hamas unanimously so those happened together at the same time it's not accidental the same Swiss parliament that banned Hamas voted to defund UNRWA as I said the Senate did not approve it but that indicates that even Switzerland, neutral Switzerland has some enough people have begun to wake up that an agency that claims to be solving the problem is actually perpetuating it we need to do something we can't let things remain business as usual and we should help Palestinians they need help but the fact that there's a political agenda driven agency that is managing all of this we've seen that they haven't solved anything and in fact they're the ones who educated the terrorists of October 7th many of them are graduates of UNRWA schools Hello lawyer at United Nations watch thank you thank you Well the US President Joe Biden bypassed Congress this week in order to push through military aid to Israel but he hasn't done that for Ukraine and aid to Kiev is still being held up Republican lawmakers want more guarantees about how the money will be spent and concessions from Democrats on strengthening the southern border our own Ottoman has the story Ukraine had a concept a concept until it fell apart that the case for USA to Kiev for Ukraine's defense against Russia was so convincing that the flow would not stop all true until it wasn't the Biden administration seems to be asking for is billions of additional dollars with no appropriate oversight no clear strategy to win and none of the answers that I think the American people are owed and so Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky found himself in Washington this week not just hat in hand but with a worn out hat and a tired hand as Republican legislators continued to hold up funding Zelensky had staked his country's staying power on American money maybe by necessity but still in Israeli terms conceptia an unquestioned set of assumptions we aim to win the air battle crushing Russian air dominance this will intensify our ground advances in 2024 and yes for another country fighting wars while assuming American support the story is a warning a warning of what happens when current swirl in American politics when that swirl is met with complacency and when the assumption is that change will be gradual and not sudden of course in important ways Israel is not Ukraine the US Israel bond goes back decades a passionate American Jewish community works hard to build the relationship and Israel does not need as much money to train us but loud signs of erosion on the American street are out there the assumption is that erosion will be gradual that may be a conceptia well meanwhile the US national security advisor Jake Sullivan is here in Israel the defense minister told him earlier that the war with Hamas will take more than a few months he spoke about tensions in the north with Hezbollah well President Biden warned this week that Israel was losing international support over its war with Hamas and last night another top Biden official John Kirby said Israel was doing more than the US had ever done in terms of protecting civilians well for more on all of this let's go to New York our senior US correspondent Mike Wagenheim is with us now so Mike is Israel getting some mixed messages from Washington this week you know there's a bit of mixed messaging a little bit of good cop bad cop here you know you've got to send different messages with different audience receiving those messages I think at this point as John Kirby pointed out by the way the messaging coming from President Joe Biden right now is sort of not only just his personal opinion but sort of a collaborative opinion of the globe right now he's taking everybody's opinions everybody's viewpoints into consideration and kind of melding in with his own votes that we've heard recently Kirby meanwhile is essentially I don't know just speaking for himself but speaking more from a pure administrative level an American administrative level here which is much more supportive and listen it works to an extent because Biden is trying to fend off certain aspects of his political party the Democratic left wing meanwhile Kirby isn't really bound by that and he can speak to the media in a more frank matter it's not like anybody's going to vote up or down on Joe Biden because of what Kirby has to say on a daily basis most Americans aren't really in tune with what he's saying anyway we pay attention but most most don't so mixed messaging yet to a certain extent but if I think you're aware of the political you know wranglings of the Democratic party right now I think there's a more a more deep understanding of those different messages are playing out across our TV screens. Good cop bad cop that classic American strategy well what about the rift then Mike on what a post war guys should look like who should be in control of it I mean are the Americans paying any attention to that poll which came out today and shows that most Palestinians whether in the West Bank or Gaza support Hamas and support what they did on October 7th now I don't know that the American administration is paying any attention or giving any extra weight to one poll or another there are other polls that show that you know that Palestinians and guys are fed up to the core with Hamas you can take one poll out of context at any point I think the American administration right now is looking at a much broader picture looking at the day after situation and trying to make sure that some sort of order can be restored and it can be turned by the way into something positive for the region in the run obviously there's a lot of short-term pain right now on Israel side on the guys inside but something collaborative can be drawn out of this you know pre October 7th the region looked a whole lot different there was collaboration there was a road potentially to normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia it's not coincidental that Jake Sullivan made a trip to Saudi before he came to Israel so there is a possibility here that the Americans could lead the way broker some sort of a collaborative effort in post Hamas governance in Gaza but right now what they're hearing out of Jerusalem is a whole lot of no's which is it's fair you know the Benjamin Netanyahu is setting his red lines here and trying to explain to Washington exactly why their ideas aren't going to work in reality maybe in theory but not in reality what Sullivan is asking for is well if everything's to know how can we get the yes on something I think he's looking for some clarity on this trip Mike thank you very much indeed Mike Wagenheim there well with me in the studio Israel's former ambassador to the United States doctor Michael Oren and Michael we've spoken about the relationship with the US I want to talk about the prospect of another deal another ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas that will get some of those 135 hostages back I think the chances are good I think as the news tightens around Hamas and it's tightening around Hamas they're going to come back to the negotiating table and say we're ready for a second round keep in mind what Hamas wants is a ceasefire and it can do it incrementally by building up ceasefires and creating reality where Israel is agreeing to successive ceasefires so the world's going to keep going for three or four days why don't make it for three or four weeks why don't you just keep going and that's the game that Hamas is going to play the question is how many cars does it retain of these hostages how many are for saying this how many are live how many are in a physical or emotional state that Hamas would like to reveal to the world Hamas actually has its own you know its own PR problems and they'll be rocking to be these people who have been sexually physically severely disabled as a result of their captivity they want the world to believe they treated the hostages very well that apparently they gave happy drugs what audience are they talking to who are they trying to convince the Arab world I think they're just trying to convince the general public I think they're also one of the reasons they've been releasing some dual nationals to gain credibility in those countries whether it be France Russia we've seen for example the United States to a certain degree so yeah they everything is about the ceasefire ceasefire means they win it means they get away with mass murder so that's they're going to keep on going for that and they're going to go round after round after round I mean I would hope at some point there'd be a grand bargain where Hamas says okay we'll give you all the hostages you get us out of here this is our get out of Gaza free car off to Algeria we'll go off to Libya or somewhere I think probably these really public would go along with that frankly do you think they'll do that when we're talking about fanatical leaders like Sinwar we don't know because we've misread their DNA in the past maybe they prefer martyrdom to Libya in Algeria maybe if that's an option it's quite possible they have a long game they don't seem to care whether their leaders get killed because there's always been another generation of leaders that will come and take their place but I do expect I do expect to have another round in the coming days and do you think Qatar will be involved in that sure and they play a great double game because they bear a tremendous amount of responsibility for this war and they're getting credit for negotiating you know the release of hostages I think there's a score to be settled there put it that way in the long run and I hope the United States would think very very seriously about moving its air force base away from Qatar where could it move it to because we were talking about the difficulties with Bahrain you can move around to the UAE you can move it to other places around the Middle East that are friendlier to the United States and it's allies than Qatar is and of course it was President Biden once again he upgraded Qatar's status we are saying thank you to Qatar it's not the American we are in a position of saying thank you to Qatar for mediating that's painful that is painful at the end of the day we do have a tremendous score to settle there all right thanks Michael Oro for now Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom has ruled out the idea of a Palestinian state in an interview with Britain's Sky News Sippy Hotter Valley doubled down on the messaging from Prime Minister Netanyahu pointing to a recent poll which shows most Palestinians support Hamas and the October 7th attacks we'll talk more about that we can go to London our correspondent Jonathan Sashadotti joins us now Sippy Hotter Valley is known for her plain speaking isn't she and she is indeed representing the liquid government Prime Minister Netanyahu has said in the past many say she went a step too far here indeed the job of an ambassador is to represent the perspective of the country he or she represents and their policies so there's always been the problem perhaps with Sippy Hotter Valley for some people that she was a politician before she entered diplomacy and became the ambassador to the UK and she was known for being a right wing politician on these topics so maybe it wasn't a surprise to some who heard her say in that interview on Sky News that she did not believe a two state solution would come after the current conflict between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza that said the question was not necessarily answered by her saying that there would never be a Palestinian state it was ambiguous she said that Israel knows today and the world should know now that the Palestinians never wanted to have a state next to Israel they want to have a state from the river to the sea she said she said that they've been saying it loud and clear and two months after that war started the Palestinian Authority didn't condemn the massacre saying that that was the big problem so bearing in mind the support that Israel's had in its military operation in Gaza this was perhaps her taking advantage of that and laying out some of the more brutally realistic some would say impossible angle that she has on the conflict but certainly I don't think she's wrong in many people's eyes that a two state solution seems perhaps further away than it ever has done and the British Foreign Secretary meanwhile David Cameron has announced a ban on so-called extremist settlers from visiting the United Kingdom what does this mean in practice? Yes David Cameron made comment today on X formerly known as Twitter where he said that extremist settlers guilty of violence in the West Bank would not be able to travel into the UK this is apparently in line with something that the US is also considering he said that this was going to be the British policy I think that it's not particularly a departure from British policy in terms of how Britain sees the disputed territories Britain has always referred to them officially as the occupied Palestinian territories he said that Britain is banning those responsible for violence from entering the UK to make sure our country cannot be a home for people who commit these intimidating acts it's not clear exactly how the UK would judge which people that would apply to and I did try to speak with the Foreign Office earlier today but they said that the only information they had to give me was his tweet so other than that tweet we don't have a lot of detail to go on for what Lord Cameron might have had in mind he did also comment separately Israeli ambassadors comments had been disappointing but added that he doesn't think we should put too much weight on one interview Jonathan thank you very much Jonathan Satterdottie there and Ambassador Michael Oren is with me in the studio and what do you think of these moves by the UK and also by the United States to kind of crack down on what they call extremist settlers and stop them from having visas etc is this first of all it's their prerogative I mean we put restrictions on who sometimes Americans who support BDS can't get into this country so it's within the realm of a country's prerogative I've questioned the criteria how do you determine who exactly is a violent settler and do they have to have a police record with Israel it's unclear what the criteria will be and I think we have to be very careful about I think denigrating an entire population because this is a very peripheral group in the what we call the settler population the Jewish and Israeli population of Judea and Samaria took up close to half a million people here we're talking about a couple of hundred people I think it's complicated with the fact that those couple hundred people have representatives in this government and certainly President Biden has made no attempt to disassemble his dissatisfaction with that situation and once it may be to change his government I think at the end of the day it's about politics so much of this Laura is about politics talking about a two-state solution now whether in Israel or in the United States or in Great Britain it's about internal politics it's not really about the Palestinians Netanyahu is afraid about a people within his own party he sees his numbers going down he's trying to make a case that I'm the person who will stop a Palestinian state and Joe Biden has to appease the progressive wing of his own party at a time when he's supporting the state of Israel as we wage war against the Palestinians or against certainly the Hamas in Gaza. Alright Ambassador Michael Thank you very much. Thank you Well we'll end with this report Uy Shepira has been touring the headquarters of Sin Copa it's one of the leading lighting companies in Israel and it worked with artists such as Justin Bieber and the Rolling Stones before the war it is located in Kfar Azar one of the worst hit communities on the October 7th attacks during the attacks the company lost two of its members two others were abducted more in this report the lights turned off on October 7th in Sin Copa one of the biggest lighting and sound companies in Israel the company located in Kfar Azar close to the Gaza border was severely damaged two employees Nitzan Lipstein and Yuval Solomon were murdered in the Hamas onslaught twin brothers Ziv and Gali Berman were abducted Ziv and Gali are the heart of Sin Copa family wonderful kids full of energy everyone who looked at them fell in love with them in a second Sin Copa was established in 2002 by a member of Kibbutz Kfar Azar as opposed to other main companies in the Tel Aviv area he decided to set his company in the Gaza envelope area this company is like a family to us we're doing all the big concerts together it doesn't matter when you come to work or what you do there there's always someone here to take care of you what started as a small local company became a prestigious and big sound and lighting enterprise which provides services to some of the top concerts in Israel such as the Rolling Stones in 2014 and Radiohead in 2017 throughout the years the company knew some challenges especially in times of tension in Gaza and Israel we had times when we had to work under rocket attacks unfortunately it became a routine here that you learn to live with Sin Copa was in its peak before October 7th with great plans ahead we were supposed to come back on Sunday October 8th to work here on Friday night and bring back equipment from the Tamar festival luckily Noblem Nasia on October 7th otherwise things would have been much worse only a few weeks ago the company returned to work one of the projects Sin Copa was involved in was the exhibition in memory of the victims of the Nova party which recently opened in Tel Aviv it wasn't simple to walk on this exhibition and see their burned cars it was very chilling I drove the road to Reim you can still see traces from the party it's beyond understanding it doesn't matter how many videos and pictures you saw once you see it live nothing compares to that despite the many tragedies and the heavy rain employees of Sin Copa continue to work this time it's preparing a tribute show for the fallen far from here Sin Copa is my home it's my community so coming back to work after such a long time reminds me of all times that feeling of the community of the Gaza envelope area working with my friends it feels like coming back home I have mixed feelings on one hand it's a good feeling to go back to work to do the thing that you are best at and what you like the most but I also feel bad about the people we lost no matter where you walk you're looking for Ziv and Gali it wasn't a single day that we didn't catch up with each other so the feeling is very bad some of Sin Copa's equipment was moved to another studio in central Israel meanwhile the workers say they'll continue to work here after all the show must go on well that's it for me but do stay with us on I-24 News Caleb Bendevede picks up our live coverage right after this thanks for watching a state of war families completely gunned down in their beds we have no idea where she is our soldiers are fighting on the front line but the general perception is something that certainly needs to be fought as well welcome to this special broadcast on I-24 News I'm Caleb Bendevede 69 of Israel's war against Hamas now as IDF troops press on in north and central Gaza some 75 Hamas terrorists surrendered en masse from the Kamal Adwan hospital in Beit Lakhia another sign of the group's weakening hold over the strip 8 soldiers suffered serious injuries in today's fighting the IDF also saying some 500 air attacks carried out across Gaza just this week still Defense Minister Yoav Galant telling visiting US National Security advisor Jake Sullivan that defeating Hamas quote will take more than several months here's those comments Hamas is a terror organization that build itself for a decade to fight Israel and they build infrastructure under the ground and on the ground it's not easy to destroy them it will take and require a long period of time it will last more than several months but we will win and we will destroy them so thank you once again for coming to Israel for helping us and for supporting us and joining us in the studio we have our correspondent Robert Swift and Dr. Fadi Ismail Research Fellow at the International Institute for Counterterrorism here in Israel who is the staffer in the US Congress and Robert interesting part about Yoav Galant's comments there to Jake Sullivan it will take more than several months to carry out this campaign we've been talking here about at the end of January pressure from the US Yoav Galant really sort of saying at any time like that over the last few days we've been seeing this back and forth between the US and the Israeli administrations this may be the Israel essentially trying to push back that window trying to open up as much time as it have we'll see how the US responds to that they've made it clear so far that they won't be happy if that window goes on indefinitely but Israel is stressing the fact that they believe they need more time to complete the military operations the level of combat that continues may be a sign of that on the other hand like you said we're seeing additional Hamas fighters apparently surrendering today right but I was stressed that's in northern Gaza of course still have the core of the Hamas fighting troops down in south Gaza in Chanyounis yeah indeed but the IDF as it's been earlier in the week will be happy to let these images be disseminated in the hope that as morale starts to disintegrate a little bit in the north that this may become infectious that this may impact the units that do continue to fight that is a point but let's go down to our guy Israel who was down by the Gaza border in southern Israel they're in sterot and a guy yesterday of course the quite depressing news the high casualties 10 killed in one day 9 in one battle today though a much different picture in northern Gaza we see something like 70 Hamas fighters surrendering without a fight laying down their weapons there in Bait Lakhia so it's again we have this sort of contrast on one hand of course the battle continuing casualties being suffered but a sense perhaps of Hamas resistance certainly in parts of Gaza starting to crumble we've seen several instances of dozens of Hamas fighters in various fronts various areas turning themselves into the IDF troops mainly in the northern part of the Gaza Strip where we see obviously a much greater presence of the Israeli military in the neighbors of Bait Hannon Bait Lakhia, Jebalia Gaza city and of course in Sajaye that is where that very unfortunate battle took place two days ago with 9 Israeli soldiers and officers who lost their lives in that booby trapped Hamas compound but the fighting has been ongoing we've been here throughout the evening we have been hearing a lot of artillery drones we even heard live fire automatic weapons so the fighting it's not really limited just to the central like Sajaye neighborhood or to Hanyunis but still pockets of resistance of Hamas even here in the northern parts of the Gaza Strip we're also hearing some new reports about that meeting between Netanyahu and Jack Sullivan according to one of the reports Sullivan has requested Israel to open the Karim Shalom crossing to goods that would come out of Israel he is asking for 100 trucks into Gaza now Israel has stressed initially at the start of this war that no aid will come through Israeli territory and now they will have to perhaps reconsider following that American request and as you mentioned Gallant is saying this war will take many months to complete and if the Israeli government wants the US support it will have to give in wherever it can to at least ease the wishes of the Americans to get that support to continue that fighting that is still a long way to go we'll talk more about that Israel US differences on the war we'll come back to that guy Israel thank you down south in the meantime Israeli Foreign Minister Ali Kohn and Health Minister Uriel Baso met today with the president of the Red Cross Mariana Spoliarets in Tel Aviv now Kohn reiterated Israeli criticism from 28 organizations saying the Red Cross has failed in its mission to reach the abductees to live a proof of life check their condition even provide them with essential medicines now represented as a families with members held captive by Hamas and Gaza on meeting with the Red Cross head this evening at the Colton Hotel or Jonathan Regev is outside there and Jonathan the Red Cross a lot of those people out there the Red Cross over the past couple of months that is true the criticism over the functioning of how the Red Cross is handling this crisis is not only at the governmental level also at the street level at the people level and I can tell you that as the meeting between the president of the Red Cross and some family members is about to begin right behind me there's now a march where we previously were that was a hosted square in central Tel Aviv to the Colton Hotel people are coming here to hold a protest outside of the hotel there is a great disappointment frustration from the way the Red Cross is handling this no visits whatsoever by the Red Cross to the hostages and it seems I think practically every Israeli feels that the Red Cross is not doing enough people are saying that the Red Cross up until now as far as the hostages are concerned they were nothing more than a bus service driving those hostages that were released from the hands of Hamas to the hands of usually to the Rafa crossing that was usually the case that so far has been everything according to the people here that the Red Cross has done for the hostages no visits no transfer of medicine nothing apart from driving them from one place to another those who were released the foreign minister the health minister presented the head of the international Red Cross with reports regarding the hostages many of them already suffering from severe illnesses that need to be treated constantly if they are there for two months and we know that they're not properly treated as far as medicine as far as food their situation obviously deteriorating obviously putting them in danger there is a strong demand by the Red Cross to do much more up until now it does not happen right at least make it more of an effort it might be more public statements about the issue Jonathan Regev thank you for that Fadi let's get back to that meeting those meetings today with Jake Sullivan the national security advisor as we said he met with Galant prime minister Netanyahu he is going to be meeting with all members of the full what's called Israel war cabinet that includes Benny Gantz the former defense minister chief of staff who is scheduled to speak this evening we expect in about an hour's time the differences between the emerging between the United States and Israel basically on two levels one is the day after the political arrangements that will be happening in Gaza and I'm sure that's part of the discussion but there is more immediate concerns both civilian casual the issue of civilian casualties in Gaza and as we just heard in this report coming out now the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza how serious are these differences especially concerning the conduct of the war as we're starting to hear more public criticism more differences not the aims of the war but the conduct of the war that is true and we're also beginning to see the theater okay we're going to see the theater it reminds me of the last two weeks of the 2006 war and with Lebanon the second Lebanon the famous and there is a combination of interests here some of them have to do as I said with political theater what do I mean by that does anyone think that Israel really has a whole year to do what it's doing now it is impossible economically, militarily socially anyway look at it it's just not doable I mean it's like not in this way it doesn't mean it's going to stop it can go for years but in different methods so I think it's clear to all of us that the talk that was in the beginning will go for a whole year that's not going to happen more than several months because a year well not with this type of operation so what is the debate about I think there's also some cynical side to it I think the Israeli government is preparing the public for a moment in three or four weeks it will come and say look we would have stayed more in the battle but these Americans are forcing us to stop which is of course not true it also wasn't true in 2006 but this time we wanted but it's easier to appear to the public saying look this is the time we had we will continue in different means especially if the war ends without doing anything in the north the social meaning social impact inside Israel is already horrible so you just imagine that because nobody will go back to those border towns I think what it would mean and I think a part of the view of the Israeli political system and the American political system is looking at that side of it I cannot but be reminded of 1973 Golda versus Kissinger and very similar circumstances in the sense that after a very bad opening close to the end of the war IDF was really on a crazy momentum that the entire most of the Egyptian army was under siege and it was in its way to basically evaporate the Egyptian fighting machine and that's when the US interfered there was a slight difference I take your point the point I want to try to get to is the amount of anger that it generated in the Israeli public later and I think that Netanyahu sees that he knows that what we all do has a good a way to tell the people okay we'll continue but not in this way because now the atmosphere for most people or most of his voters for sure is let's keep on going all the way because currently there are many strong achievements for the IDF we see that in reports so we are I think part of it is really tactical operation and strategic operations but I want to introduce also the side of the political theater at this point we have to start thinking about it. Fair enough I understand that I think everyone would have to assume that the tactical, the strategic of completely eliminating Hamas from the Gaza Strip certainly doesn't seem doable in that time we see how long it's taking and how costly it is to carry that out in the north how much more difficult that would be in southern Gaza where so much of the population is now crowded in you would have to go from house to house room to room looking for people like Muhammad death but there is another factor and that is the hostages it's hard to imagine that the any lessening of the effort of the military unless there would be some kind of hostage exchange or deal that would leave that unresolved I'm just going to add to that again we're hearing though talk today about a possible deal similar bring up another war the first Lebanon war when the PLO was allowed to leave and go to Tunis from Lebanon we're hearing now talk of Algeria being raised as a possible escape hatch for the Hamas leadership in return for all the hostages there's another one the possibility of elections that could be also another component to elections I mean in the Palestinian Authority to renew the whole command structure both in Gaza and in the Palestinian Authority it will be a package now everybody is heckling for what it's going to be everybody is grandstanding I think we are already inside the political bazaar before we get to that let's take a stress at how difficult the combat has become especially after that incident yesterday in this urban warfare is now raging across the Gaza Strip and it's clear how costly it is and of course there are many other densely populated areas of the Strip that I just said our senior defense correspondent Jonathan Regev takes a closer look at the facts on the ground now in Gaza in this report only hours after the deadly incident in Sajaya in the Gaza Strip fighting is ongoing in the Gaza neighborhood of Jabalia a bit further north these soldiers knew way before the Sajaya incident how dangerous street fighting is but also understand the importance of searching every house this is what is found in one of them a seemingly residential home which is also a terror compound in Sajaya our troops found large weapons depots and tunnels in multiple schools there was even a sniper rifle hidden inside a teddy bear we found an rpg training facility inside a mosque in Jabalia to name only a few the danger awaits in every corner here is a Hamas terrorist hiding behind the bricks waiting for the right moment to act just before he does a helicopter is called in for the hit despite the dangers there is no replacement for boots on the ground that is why the forces keep entering these compounds understanding the intelligence gathered here may lead them to more terror cells or possibly even to hostages the pressure is eventually leading the terrorists to surrender tens of them left the Gaza hospital where they were hiding over the last two days fighters from the 460th brigade have been evacuating the Kamal Adwan hospital the hospital had been used as a stronghold for terrorists terrorists had come out of here to harm our forces during the evacuation many weapons were removed from the hospital a lot of terrorists were taken out of the hospital and are currently in custody in Israel security officials believe that as the ground operation intensifies more images of the sky will be seen Robert there is no denying the achievements that the IDF has made impressive maybe that will go down and be studied by the professionals of the history of urban warfare but again giving the scope of the challenge that still lies ahead especially in southern Gaza never mind still completing the job in northern Gaza as Fadi is saying it seems that it can't be carried out at a pace that it's been carried out of not just because of say US or international pressure but the pressure of Israeli society they cost the impact it's having I think the first thing to note with that is the fact that Israel's military is based on conscription and the advantage that that gives it is the size of its reserve forces Israel has a huge reserve military compared to what a similarly sized country and population Fadi is saying the military I thought surely could continue but that brings into fact that many of these soldiers who are right now serving all of the economy and that puts a pressure on Israel in terms of how long it can maintain that level of manpower and that is a factor worth bearing in mind in terms of the actual intensity of the combat the idea seems to be holding up reasonably well the casualties do seem to have tipped up since the ceasefire ended in the first few weeks of the conflict the Israeli military seemed to very successfully keep their casualties down now there's a possibility that this was because of the amount of air power that they were able to use and as pressures come on to them from the United States and other diplomatic angles they have had to lean back slightly in the amount of firepower they use and that then puts the risk on to their troops now in the initial phases of the war mostly Hamas seem to be using hit and run tactics small groups of guys sneaking up behind classic guerrilla tactics trying to confront much superior idea forces but what we've been seeing in the last few days seems like they had maybe taken on a more robust form of defense with the ambush that took place yesterday which killed 9 IDF soldiers and officers that incident seemed to be a much more complex operation when the Hamas stood the ground and launched two or three different ambushes all as part of that one attack I want to dovetail to what you just said look the thing is I think it's something else the IDF surprised everyone but how easy it made it look like in the initial go the whole time I mean I'm watching the guys doing the job after 60 days see how alert and serious and professional they are there aren't very many fighting forces who can do that they're just not you have to realize these people are in the field for all this time so they just made it look so easy you know it's like watching Jin Kelly dancing hold on we are going to Daniel Hagar the IDF spokesperson from a special operation of IDF the operation took place in the last few days where we eliminated terrorists within tunnels of the Hamas the combatants hid weapons in the tunnel we identified them with a camera and we eradicated a few terrorists they try to hide underground and this is the method of Hamas they hide when using the citizens above as a human shield we have new combat methods and we are going to kill terrorists we are going to go in we are going to hide grenades and weapons and wait until we can kill them underground they will not be protected underground the chief of staff came today to the field to meet with the combatants of Golani the Golani division is now fighting in Sajediyah and Zaytun and this time as well they continue to act with determination and courage and obtain new missions and to eradicate the terrorists at the end of the day this is to weaken and to eradicate terror from the other side of the border in order to enable the inhabitants to go back with safety to their homes today 14th of December the instead of pictures that we used to see of military marches of Hamas we saw pictures of dozens of terrorists today coming out of their hiding places in hospitals giving in and handing themselves to the combatants in Sajediyah and Hanyunas today we kill terrorists this is the festive day of Hamas today but we shall continue to fight against it we have other objectives we have three fierce battles in the next few days as well but we shall continue to deepen our achievements with determination in order to pressure Hamas in the north military aircraft attacked a few infrastructure of Hezbollah in Lebanon we attacked a division of terrorists who retaliated to do dozens of activities in the refugee camps all over the area we thwart attacks and we kill terrorists the IDF and the Shin Bet finished their job in the Janine refugee camp we continue with determination to thwart terror I'd like to relate also to the documentation of the Mosque in Janine the combatants of the IDF are required to act professionally according to the spirit of IDF and most of them do that we are not going to compromise on the spirit and way of IDF those who will not abide by these rules are going to be punished this evening also we do not forget for one moment more than 135 hostages abducted on October 7th still held in the Gaza Strip we shall continue to do everything in order to bring all of them home our hearts is with the families this evening we are lighting the 8th and last candle of the Hanukkah festival the combatants are going to light the candles in the field within the borders and in Gaza fighting for the home they are going to light candles so that we can live here with safety happy holiday questions Kan 11 Rui Sharon today spoke about the flooding of water of the tunnels and what do you do with the hostages in such a case I'll tell you in our activity in the operation underground and also from air we rely on intelligence that we get from the headquarters that deals with the hostages the hot quarters of Nica alone we have intelligence as much as possible we know the locations and of course I'm not going to talk about it here but we're doing everything possible that they are not harmed the hostages that's our operational logic I'm not going to expose the method that we can work underground in order to dismantle the infrastructure we have various kinds of ways I described a few of them we saw in a camera some of the terrorists and they got killed and it makes them understand one thing they're not protected underground even if you use other methods and people talk about it in the media the idea is to kill the terrorists so that they understand that tunnels are not a shield for terrorists but together with that we have to and see that we do the best possible the most efforts in order to save the hostages and bring them back safely the news 12 the budget passed today and it has a lot of coalition monies the prime minister said that there's enough money but apparently the reservists those soldiers who served in 60 days do not get any additions of allowances how does this possible I don't want to relate to the budget it's not my field it's not my responsibility but I can say that in the IDF the importance of the reservists is worth its weight in gold I cannot even talk about it this is the army of the people we don't have any others the service is our strength as a country as a society that's how we built this country 1948 with the logic that on a day of war just as it's happening now hundreds of thousands come here they leave the house the studies they leave everything in order to volunteer and fight for Israel and it's obvious in IDF that we have to do everything in order to reward them and I think that this is what's going to happen in the Israeli society they will get allowances we are going to take care we're going to see to it we're going to go up to the government we'll do everything that we can with our resources so that the reservists are granted the money we're talking about a political thing it's the state the state will have to make sure that it takes part in the war and of course in the stages after when they will be discharged then we have to make sure that they are rewarded that's our strength as a society we know that they risk their lives and apart from doing that they should also be preserved and taken care of thank you, thank you very much we just heard we were out on a day regarding the passage of a new state budget there's been some back and forth between the government and the opposition over the some of the expense some of the budget items going for political means some other people have been criticizing pensions for retired IDF officers that's what Admiral Hagari was referring to there Robert also a response talking about the tunnels and publicizing other means reports that salt water is going to be pumped into the tunnels there has been some concern expressed how they could impact on the hostages President Biden was even asked about it basically saying we have intelligence he's trying to reassure especially the families of the hostages that any actions they take in the tunnels won't impact on hostages being kept captive there the fact that he mentioned the intelligence before he went into that subject I think indicates some of the concerns that people have it's worth bearing in mind the IDF can choose which tunnels it floods and which ones it doesn't Hamas will have different forms of tunnels I just want to point out he talked about also shooting dead this was just released just minutes ago by the IDF showing the bodies of hostages shot down within the tunnels of fighters I think the IDF are trying to make Hamas understand that the tunnels are not a protection for them that they may offer some escape routes but essentially there's a limit to how far they can go it seems to me that there's essentially the tunnels they offer a protection for a certain amount of time if the IDF are controlling the ground above the tunnels then there is a limit to how long they can be protected inside there Alright Alright gentlemen stay with us let's turn to Washington for a minute the US Senate passing a massive defense spending bill yesterday still has to go back to the House of Representatives now of course budget items for Israel are a big part of that important part of the bill now unfortunately though the bill and the aid being given to Israel has become tied up also with the question of aid to Ukraine which is why it's being held up by the GOP in the house the GOP asking for a look forward at how Ukraine can make progress for the war and also concessions from Democrats regarding the southern border the US border with Mexico our senior diplomatic correspondent Owen Altman tells us why all this budget maneuvering in the US has some lessons for Israel Ukraine had a concept a concept until it fell apart that the case for USA Dukiev for Ukraine's defense against Russia was so convincing that the flow would not stop all true until it wasn't what the Biden administration seems to be asking for is billions of additional dollars with no appropriate oversight no clear strategy to win and none of the answers that I think the American people are owed and so Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky found himself in Washington this week not just hat in hand but with a worn out hat and a tired hand as Republican legislators continued to hold up funding Zelensky had staked his country's staying power on American money maybe by necessity but still in Israeli terms a conceptia an unquestioned set of assumptions we aim to win the air battle crushing Russian air dominance this will intensify our ground in 2024 and yes for another country fighting wars while assuming American support Ukraine's story is a warning a warning of what happens when current swirl in American politics when that swirl is met with complacency and when the assumption is that change will be gradual and not sudden of course in important ways Israel is not Ukraine the US Israel bond goes back decades a passionate American Jewish community works hard to build the relationship and Israel does not need as much money as Ukraine does but loud signs of erosion on the American street are out there the assumption is that erosion will be gradual that may be a conceptia and staying focused on Washington as we mentioned the US national security advisor Jake Sullivan in Israel meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu and other top officials one of the issues they are discussing is US concerns over civilian casualties in Gaza and as we mentioned some administration officials including Biden have expressed concern over how Israel is conducting the campaign but one White House figure has struck a different tone one more supportive of Israel throughout the war than maybe any other administration official that's a national security spokesman John Kirby last night was sharing one of those Israeli dog tags inscribed with the words bring them home now referring to the Gaza hostages and he had this to say about Israel's conduct of the war they moved in into northern Gaza on the ground in a way that was much smaller than they had previously planned to do and we think that that was an outgrowth of some of the advice and counsel that we provided them about urban warfare they have reduced the number of airstrikes that they're conducting right now as they pursue Amos terrorists in the south they have published online maps of places where people can go or not to go that's basically telegraphing your punches and there's very few modern militaries in the world that would do that I don't know that we would do that to put a map out there and say here's where you can go where it's safe and here's where you shouldn't go because we might be striking there those are all good examples even when they were operating north they added humanitarian corridors to allow people to leave they are now talking about additional corridors in the south as well as the possibility of more daily humanitarian pauses in the fighting so that people can get access to assistance well for more let's go to our senior US correspondent Mike Wagenheim in New York and Mike will get back to John Kirby in a minute let's just talk about that defense budget that passed through the senate the house still has to go to the white house and some important items there concerning Israel's defense aid I don't foresee it being a problem in the house it seems a house leadership in the senate talked it over before it got through the senate so it looks like you know it's going to find its way to the president's desk one way or another and yeah there's a lot in that defense bill unsurprisingly that has to do with the Middle East and unsurprisingly with Israel in particular it's not a permanent position it's not a permanent position it's not a permanent position Dan Shapiro the ex American ambassador to Israel was inserted into that position by the Biden administration this makes it more of a permanent and politically charged position going forward since it'll require senate approval also in there very notable and this was in there pre-octagonal 7th was making sure that the Department of Defense is keeping track of its munitions stockpile in Israel to make sure that it's that Israel has the necessary inventory that it needs to fight a war on multiple fronts should it come to that so very now much under the microscope post October 7th and that will be in the defense bill also more senate com exercises involving Israel as Israel becomes more integrated into the U.S. Central Command is more of a regional partner with other allies there in the Gulf making sure that reports are filed on Iran's uranium enrichment that the Defense Department is keeping track of that more statistically reporting on other boycotts of countries boycotting Israel and making sure that the Department of Defense and the State Department aware of those particular issues as well and of course funding for any number of programs whether it be missile defense cooperation whether it be pilot training all of those goodies that are normally in those defense bills are carried over to this year's appropriations as well Khalif right and Mike I think we need a word about John Kirby who's express support for Israel has kind of been exceptional in the administrations for the past two months and really taking it I would almost say to another level in his briefing you know it's really been kind of the last few weeks or so I imagine it to be a good cop bad cop symbiotic relationship here between Joe Biden and John Kirby Biden has been the one to kind of bring out into the public disagreements with the Netanyahu government over any number of matters related to the prosecution of the war here and Kirby has just gone full out in support of Israel's actions and so I think what you're having here and that was even brought to the attention of John Kirby yesterday how do you reconcile the differencing and messaging between what you Kirby are saying on stage and what Biden is saying you know just down the hall and what he said what John Kirby said is listen Joe Biden has to take into account global opinion which is not necessarily the opinion of the White House itself he has to be you know kind of that leader so I think you're seeing kind of both sides here and don't forget although Kirby didn't say it Joe Biden has to take into account political implications as well political implications of the Democratic Party especially those to the left of Biden so that's kind of mixed into a president Biden's messaging John Kirby doesn't have to worry about an election nobody's going to vote up or down on John Kirby so he can be a little bit more free to express what he feels is the administration's real goals here and the real interest as opposed to Biden you know more politically expedient messaging. Alright Mike Wagenheim there in New York thank you for that and of course Fadi you're an old Washington hand you stalk the halls of Congress there politics coming in as might just mention at the last but of course that is going to have a real impact on events on the ground here because as we've been talking about how much of that window that diplomatic window really which is we're talking about the U.S. backing Israel in given the same kind of backing it's been given to Israel until now from president Biden how much is that sustainable especially as we head into a presidential primary season and Joe Biden has to keep in mind he's unopposed to the primary but he has to satisfy that progressive liberal swing of his party which is not happy with the way Israel is conducting its operations. The president will have what he would have he would say what he has to say this is a political side I told you we are now getting into that phase whereas the purity of the first few weeks just dissipates and now we have to say what was there all the time just behind the closed doors so that's exactly the game I'm starting to see how that falls because we are nearing no matter what anybody says we are nearing the end of this phase of the war maybe that will be a nicer way to say it because this business having 400,000 troops in a country of 9 million people in full alert all over the borders just not there's a limit to that what is it 250 million dollars a day I mean seriously we have to so if we frame now the trick is to frame it cognitively in a way that the Israeli public can swallow it the Palestinian public can swallow it and somehow it can the US public in something just as Owen said we saw how the Ukraine initially went from a war a conflict where US was giving this full support to Ukraine and we saw how that withered away that was what Owen was talking about how that could happen over a period of time just like when you shoot a rifle there's only so many bullets in it and that limits your ability the same goes for diplomatic bullets if you will there's an element called time is a resource it's like bullets like anything else and you never have indefinite amount of time not even a superpower there's always a limit of time of resources, of context things that happen in the world now I'm gonna go to the bird's eye view I always call that way in the end it is a war between Israel and Hamas but it is really also a war between global axes trying to establish itself and we know that Hamas has interrupted that interrupted the rapprochement between Israel and Saudi Arabia the US needs that especially now that the NDA has passed and we have the budgets for Indo-Pacific and Europe to face the Chinese and the Russians so the US needs it, it needs now to calm the situation because you're building that axis you have to see it on that level because now there are also other allies of the US in the region that are being hurt by the war economically Egypt and Jordan are very first ones because there's no more not the same level of seafaring in the red sea that used to be and that means that these countries are in trouble now there's a cascading effect there's a third order effect and in an economy of just in time to live in after Corona after the war in Ukraine there's only so much capacity for the world to absorb another a disaster like this so as long as it was just a local war between a couple of Middle Easterners angry at each other but now it's a global event so all of these things inherently limit the time and so now as I said we are now at the time when everybody is calculating the exit to the next phase of the war doesn't mean the war is over it means we moved another we just framed it let's talk a little in some way this next item deals with the next phase which could be the day after because while Hamas may be facing defeat on the battlefield in Gaza it has apparently not been defeated in the hearts and minds of many if not most Palestinians even when it comes to that horrific October 7th attack this is according to the results of a new poll a survey that shows that Hamas's popularity has only increased over the past couple of months along with a drop in support for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas among the Palestinians or Robert Swift who's with us in studio breaks down the findings Hamas might be listed as a terrorist organization in many capitals a status reinforced by its surprise assault on southern Israel two months ago but its recent actions have only raised its standing among Palestinians recent polling suggests 72% of respondents said they believe Hamas was correct to launch the October 7th attacks this figure was higher at 82% in the West Bank but even in the devastated Gaza Strip 57% agreed with the statement Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas unpopular on the street for years has fallen even further with 88% of respondents saying they wanted him to resign polling was conducted on a sample of 1,231 people in the West Bank and Gaza during last month's ceasefire the findings complicate President Joe Biden's plan for the day after the war with the US pushing for Abbas's Palestinian Authority to administer Gaza and could make Israel's victory more elusive with an ideology harder to destroy than any organization a majority of Palestinian respondents said they believed Hamas's motivation for its surprise attack was defense of the holy sites in Jerusalem which they say are threatened by Jewish extremists in the Israeli government and only 10% said that they believed Hamas conducted war crimes during what it called operation a lax a flood. Well, for more let's speak with Muhammad Najib he's a Palestinian political and security analyst joining the West Bank City of Ramallah. Well what do you make of the results of this Paul Muhammad that so many of the Palestinians I don't know what's more surprising that there's still support within Gaza for Hamas after what what's been what the Gazans have suffered or that the support for the palace for the Hamas is even greater among Palestinians in the West Bank it's not that any Palestinians get targeted by Israel gain more support and sympathy with Palestinians and it was known that during the previous military operations against Gaza Hamas's capability increased during the war time and after the war but after the end of the war Hamas's ability to return to its status and the survey shows that Fatiha leader Marwan Berguth who has been the life sentence in Israeli jail gained the number one if there is elections now and he can defeat Ismail Haniya Hamas leader so despite the limited increase in support of Hamas in the West Bank and what the resistance that's conducted by Hamas according to the Palestinian perspective but still Marwan Berguth if Fatiha leader is the capable and the most popular Palestinian there's any elections to be the president of the Palestinian Authority. Right we should note there's been some talk about rumors about talks of hostage release deals that would free Marwan Berguth very difficult to serving multiple life sentences for directing terror attacks hard to imagine that would happen but you also see in that in the meantime though Mahmoud Abbas is still the leader of the Palestinian Authority and there are questions being raised about who will have civilian authority in Gaza the day after the war which is rapidly coming upon us this time and we will have some trouble in that regard and we even see Hamas talking some leaders of Hamas today talking about maybe re-entering the civil sphere with the Palestinian Authority so is how encouraging or not is this poll just even for Mahmoud Abbas or the Palestinian Authority to have any kind of role in Gaza when the fighting dies down. The survey shows that 90% of the Palestinian people call for the resignation of Mahmoud Abbas in the previous surveys two months ago the Bersinti Jua 75 who think that he failed in his job and must leave but now they are 90. Actually the Palestinians expect Mahmoud Abbas to act to behave actively and stop the war against Gaza and allow the entry of humanitarian aid to the Gaza and direct the injured to be treated in Egyptian hospitals and other hospitals but they are unhappy with his silence and moralized and cannot do anything to help the people in Gaza. It's early to say what will happen after the end of the war with the Palestinian Authority but the Palestinian Authority is poor and weak. Israel was one of the element that weakened the Palestinian Authority but also the corruption inside the Palestinian Authority weakened and caused to lose its reputation among the Palestinians where 60% of the Palestinians call for the dismantle so I think the Palestinian Authority cannot do well in this bank. I can't imagine that it can rule Gaza Strip and take control there. Whatever the American promise to enhance and reshuffle and make it stronger. I think it's weak and they cannot take the job in Gaza. Alright, that certainly seems to be the case under present circumstances there would have to be some kind of fairly dramatic change for that to happen but time is running out to start making those changes and reforms and whatever kind of arrangements. Mohammad Najib Ramallah, thank you for that. Thank you. Fadi, you talked about the political dimension that we're now entering is becoming it. I will say this for those who think that Benjamin Netanyahu is facing some political challenges showing that 70% of the Israeli public thinks he should step down when the fighting ends in Gaza. While he's in better shape than Mahmoud Abbas apparently who has 90% of the Palestinians now ready for him to go. But I mean the more serious point is some very big decisions have to be made. It looks like they're going to have to be made soon. Jake Sullivan is here in part to talk about those decisions. What kind of arrangements are we going to see in Gaza? We have two political leaders Benjamin Netanyahu on the Israeli side. We have of course Mahmoud Abbas Abu Mazan on the Palestinian side that we have and the support that any leader would need to make some of the very difficult challenging decisions ahead on what happens in Gaza. I won't even say the day after even the day that's now coming out and decisions have to be made about who's going to conduct a civil administration there. Yeah, this is why when I said elections it's not because I'm excited about that. I don't think anybody is excited about that. Again, but that could be part of the whole package of the formula that will enable everybody to catch a breath, take a few months until they're elected because they need some time and now we have people living in tents in Gaza. Well, we also, again, I go back we have also 135 Israeli hostages who need to be rescued. By the end of 2024, something like that or something, but you have to give some kind of at least semblance of a political move. There are a big differences between the two, Netanyahu is always democratically elected as Prime Minister. I'm not drawing a direct I know, I know, I'm not. I'm not saying but as far as hey, tell you why I'm sometimes I'm used by people getting well, Hamas will win. Well, who's been Hamas for the last 50 years since 1971, who built Hamas? It wasn't there. It's not a part of the Palestinian history. If you go back to the history since the beginning of that word coming up as a political those Muslim Brotherhood times were never a part of it. So I don't want I, you know, I'm not trying to annoy people, but the facts are facts. And if we have spent the last 25 years basically building them up just in order to hit the Palestinian Authority, the result is we have a weakened Palestinian Authority and a strong Hamas use it. So with time it will flip back because what do they have these Muslim Brotherhood times? What do they have to promise? What do they have to promise for the people? What is their political promise? Always, if you look always in every case that those I'm going to say something that is factually to correct every time these Islamists not jobs, okay? Every time they take over some country behind them always. There isn't one example. And we know, by the way, of course the Hamas has benefitted from Iran support over the past. Sure. And the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt was a country by country. So once all we have to do is just not let them do this anymore. The public, a lot, many people in the public would love to see them gone. So that's what I'm saying when everybody jumps in, Hamas will happen. Well, let's stop cultivating them. That's all. Okay, but that will be a long process. Making that shift and a politically difficult one for the current government and answers are going to be given. I'm presuming even today to Jake Sullivan in his meetings with Benjamin Netanyahu and the war cabinet. Definitely. And obviously he's going to push the point that as far as the US is concerned, the end result that needs to come from this is some form of two state solution. And that's not something that the current Israeli administration is going to want to hear. This in itself ties back into the election that you were just talking about. The last time the Palestinians tried to run an election Mahmoud Abbas withdrew from it because he said he couldn't hold the polling in East Jerusalem because the Israelis wouldn't enable them to. This was really a cop out for him. He isn't in the habit of actually running for elections anyway. But the point of the fact is that if there is to be any form of Palestinian election, it requires massive Israeli consent in terms of the logistics of enabling that. And if the US is pushing forward for some form of return to the Oslo Accords some form of return to a two state solution is this Israeli government going to enable that? I think the answer is no. I don't think you need to be a political scientist to know what's going on. But I don't even think looking ahead. I'm talking even literally right now in terms of who is going to administer the hand of the civil administration in Gaza, even those parts that Israel is already taking control of. And of course, Prime Minister Netanyahu and other officials have expressed the desire to see countries like Saudi Arabia and the UAE joining and they've said no unless the Palestinian Authority has a role. So we'll reach the kind of deadlock here. That's where the political bazaar kicks in. So everybody will pull it. That's a push pull. We're right there. Maybe we don't see it in the media because it's still happening behind closed doors. But this is exactly the smoke filled backroom deals that are happening as we speak right now. And we'll see what comes on the other end of it because frankly, I was I was socialized into thinking in terms of options. What are the real options on the ground? Not what would we want to happen. The shoot that would have been fine, but on the ground, what do we have? What is there? You have about a million and a half medicines that have no place to go back to right now. This needs to be solved now. And you need somebody who can do this. All right. The only issue I take, the only thing I take issue is that it's not appearing in the media. The media, including here, I don't know if it was, have started to discuss this because the talk.