 We just, when we go live only then. We keep our horses reins controlled. Yeah. Good evening, friends. On behalf of Beyond Law CLC and Thriktram and Associates, on a popular request and demand we have gotten Mr. Uday Hula, who despite his busy schedule, has agreed to give the practical tips and strategies to file and defend the civil suits. Mr. Uday Hula, I can say down south was always a popular name, but after these webinars and the advent of all this knowledge sharing, he has become such a popular name, banned India and beyond. And as they says, when the parents keep the name, they probably feel that the same would be the reflection of the person subsequently. And Uday, as we all know that it's the dawn of the sunrise and his rise for the profession and knowledge sharing has always been a cherished moment for everyone to learn. And they say that the best of the gurus don't give you the best of the tricks because they feel that the Jaila, what we say in Hindi or the pupil would understand that then there won't be a difference. But as they say that a difference between a man and an extra ordinary person and an extraordinary person is that extra effort, that extra energy, that extra each, which is different from the other persons. As Mr. Shiv Khaira says, successful people don't do different things. They do it differently. And that's what the hallmark of Mr. Hula is, that he's wanting to share the knowledge. He's wanting that the cat should be out of the bag. People can understand what could be the tricks and the strategies. Otherwise normally one feels if I tell the tricks and the strategies and the tips, we cannot say tricks because tricks connotes something else. Yet he says that I will let you know all these strategies and tips. Yet they say that the persons who have a different niche will always be a step ahead. Without taking much time, I would request a short introduction by Mr. Thrikram, who was the connecting point with us. And then we would request Mr. Hula to share the knowledge. And those who want to ask any question after his knowledge sharing, you will take it from the YouTube or on the chat of this webinar of the Zoom. And he would be always, as usual, readily share that. And he always says that he enjoys more sharing the knowledge on those questions. Over to you, Mr. Thrikram. Thank you, Mr. Vikas. Once again, you have said it all. I do not want to waste much of the time. Once again, on my personal behalf and on behalf of Beyond Law CLC, I extend a very warm welcome to you, sir. Thank you very much. Anyway, I can only say this. It's not I who have been sharing the knowledge. It is Mr. Vikas Chaturgu who has been sharing the knowledge. And the lawyers across India and India will always be grateful to him. He is like the teacher who brings in people, who have something to say in their professional career. And there is a knowledge sharing. So it is not it is that is why his name is Vikas. So that's all that I can say. Thanks to him. The knowledge sharing is now being, you know, across pan India. Well, I have today the onus task of talking to you about the strategies for a civil dispute. Civil dispute is like going to a war. It is said that the less you sweat during peacetime, sorry, the more you sweat during peacetime, the less you bleed during war time. So when you are into a civil litigation, preparation is what counts the most. If you are well prepared, you will always score better in the courts than an ill prepared lawyer. Civil litigation is like making a pot. Whereas a criminal litigation or a defending the if a person is defending a criminal litigation, it's like breaking a pot. Of course, prosecutors are always like detectives. So that's the distinction or difference. Civil dispute, a client comes to you with some problem of his. One of the things that a lawyer must do is, first of all, call it as much information as possible from the client. Many a times the client would not know what is required to be shared with the lawyer. Many a times facts are not fully revealed. We prepare a half big plane and file it. Ultimately, it reflects on the result of the case because if you have not pleaded facts which are relevant, the evidence that you let in will not be looked into by the courts of law. So facts are extremely important. I can only say this, a lawyer must have the patience of a crane. We all have seen the cranes standing in a water waiting endlessly for the fish to come across its legs and thereafter catch it. So a lawyer must have that patience, abundant patience to sit with the client, call it and collect as much information as possible. In fact, the task becomes all the more difficult when you appear for garment because a client, a private litigant will have more facts, he will be willing to share more facts. Whereas the garment litigation, the garment servants are always, they do not have the full facts. I have said this that till I became the advocate general, I used to say that the left hand does not know what the right hand does and after I became the advocate general, I said the left hand itself does not know what it did five minutes back. So that is the problem that garment advocates face. So one must sit with the client. If one is a garment advocate with the garment servants, patiently listen to them, get as much information as possible. Many a times they think they do not know what are the facts that they will have to reveal to the lawyer. So you must be able to cross-examine them, ferret as much information as possible before you put the pen to the paper for drafting a plaint, which is the beginning of a civil suit. It is said that a civil litigation is endless. When I file a civil suit, I must first prepare the draft of a plaint. For that, I'll have to sit with the clients as I said, patiently ferret as much information as possible. Apart from that, one of the things that a lawyer must always remember is he must know the law that will facilitate and enable him to draft the plaint better. Let me give you an illustration. The specific relief act prior to its amendment in 2018 mandated that one has to ever improve that the plaintiff is ready and willing to perform his part of the obligation. Of course, there's been an amendment now that ever meant he is taken out. As it existed prior to 2018, if a lawyer, when he drafts the plaint, did not know that evering and proving the matter relating to readiness and willingness was mandatory, he will only speak of the facts and not mention that word that the plaintiff is ready and willing to perform his part of the obligation. There have been number of judgments of the various high courts as well as the Supreme Court of India, which have held prior to 2018 that if you did not ever that you were ready and willing to perform near part of the obligations or the contract, then the suit was liable to be dismissed. So, if you know the law, it becomes easier for you to draft the plaint and you know the nuances of law, you can also modify the plaint, I mean the facts, ask the client what are the facts that are needed in respect of a particular case. In the case of a specific performance, one must always be able to prove that the plaintiff had the necessary funds to pay the balance of the amount. Supposing there is an agreement for purchase of a property, a part of the amount has been paid as advance, the balance has to be paid by the purchaser. One of the things that is needed to be done by the plaintiff in such a suit for specific performances to prove that he had the necessary funds, Supreme Court is even gone to the extent of saying he must not just ever that he has the funds, he must be able to show that he has the funds without which the suit for specific performance will get dismissed. So, therefore, knowing the law will always help the lawyer better in drafting the plaint. Secondly, when you draft a plaint, one must always remember that the plaint has three different rules to play. One is, it will reflect your own personality to the judge. If you draft out a plaint, well, you will be portraying your personality in a better manner to the judge in question before whom you are appearing. Secondly, it will enable the judge to understand the case of your client in a better manner. Third, when you file a civil case, it lingers on for a number of years. By the time the case comes up for evidence, you would have become virtually a senior. You will have acquired at least about 100 or 200 cases. So, when you have a well drafted plaint with the facts narrated in a sequential manner, it enables you to lead evidence in a better manner. Therefore, drafting of the plaint is absolutely essential, a drafting of a plaint in a proper and in a professional manner. Plaint is always, it should not be too prolix a plaint. Yes, I understand. If you, a specific performance suit can be drafted out in just five pages, it can be drafted out in 50 pages. I agree with my learned friends that if you draft a plaint of five pages, client will say what kind of a plaint have you drafted. He will be dissatisfied. You give him a 50 page draft, he will be very thrilled and he will give you the fee that you ask or quote. Therefore, one of the strategies is put the facts in the beginning and whatever narration for elongation of the plaint do it at the end. The plaint has to be drafted in such a manner that by reading the plaint in just two or three pages, the judge and you after a long lapse of time when it comes for evidence will be able to grasp what is the case all about, what are the facts and how you will have to leave the evidence. Pressy writing is a important aspect which we all at our age, when we were young, we had what is known as Renland Martin Grammar. Today, of course, it is not there. Pressy writing is an art whereby you should be able to encapsulate if six page is see into just one page where under you will be able to call it and put all the ideas of the six page essay into one page. That will enable the judge to grasp your case at the earliest. It will enable you to understand your own case after you have forgotten what you had written earlier at the earliest because as you become senior, you become more and more busy up. So, you will not have time to go through a 50 pager plaint. A five pager or a three pager well drafted plaint will enable you to grasp the entire fact situation at the earliest. Pressy writing, I have been advocating this for a long, long time. In fact, recently the Supreme Court in the judgment which is reported in 2022, 3 SCC 529, just this Sanjay Kishan call in at paragraph 240 of that judgment has said there is a need to write clear and short judgments which the litigant can understand and that Ren and Martin principle of pressy writing must be adopted. This is what I would recommend and I have been recommending for the last 20 years to everybody. This is what the lawyers must adopt and incorporate in their daily writings. It will enable the lawyer as I said to understand the case at the earliest and the judge to understand the fact situation at the earliest. The plaint, when one drafts the plaint, it must be different paragraphs, must be there in the plaint, short paragraphs, short sentences, direct sentences and each idea and fact in a different paragraph. I have seen planes which have which run into four pages of a single paragraph. That shouldn't happen because you will the judge will lose his patience when he reads in a such a lengthy paragraph. On the contrary, if you prepare a plane in such a manner that each idea, each fact is in a different paragraph, the judge as well as you at a later point of time will be able to grasp the entire matter at the earliest. So, pressy writing, ability to write direct sentences. Many a times I have seen this, planes are written, written statements are written in a manner where there are no direct sentences always indirect sentences. A direct sentence will always be easier to comprehend for a judge, easier to comprehend for you as well. This is one aspect of the matter which I thought a lawyer must remember. Secondly, after the ultimately a civil dispute is always before a civil court and the lawyer whose into civil litigation must be thorough with the civil procedure court because the entire procedure relating to the civil dispute are incorporated in the court as well procedure. That apart, many of these states also have civil rules of practice. These two, every lawyer who's into civil litigation must be thorough with that will enable you not only to conduct the cases in a proper and professional manner, it will also enable you to ensure that you don't make mistakes. Of course, this I am slightly deviating. When a client comes, always remember he wants sugar or relief at the earliest. Secondment is always a better option. Yes, you may think that if a lawyer advises settlement, the clients may run away. But the truth of the matter is if a plaintiff is entitled to get a lakh of rupees, if the other side is willing to pay 75,000 right now, the client is better off receiving that 75,000. For the simple reason, taking into account the delays that exist in the courts by the time a decrease got by the plaintiff, it would be at least about three years unless it is in a commercial court where there are no cases where the courts have very less number of cases. If a person gets 75,000 as on date, it is far more valuable than a lakh of rupees if he gets it after three years because that one lakh after three years would be worth only 50,000 taking into account the inflation. Moreover, if the person is a businessman with that 75,000, he'll double it within a matter of three years in his business. So, you may ask me, if you go in for settlement, how is it going to benefit you? In the short term, it will not. But in the long term, definitely it will help you because that client whom you have sent away will always say, if you want a good lawyer, go to so and so. So, in the long term, you stand to get benefited enormously. He becomes your advertiser. Well, that is, as I said, dilating from the very subject. This is because there's a saying in Canada. Why I said this was, there's a saying in Canada. In court, the person who wins, there's a Canada man saying in Canada, in court, a person who wins loses and the person who loses dies. We all know that after you get a decree, the problem for the decree holder starts only after the execution is filed. The famous Sunawala on execution, the book on Sunawala on execution specifically says, problem for the decree holder starts only after he obtains the decree. That is why settlement is a better option. And that is the reason why you find that in the commercial courts act, mediation is should be the first step only thereafter you can file the case or the suit before the court. Now, as far as the drafting of the plaint is concerned, as I said, the steps that should be followed is call it as much facts as possible, draft of the plaint in a professional manner, direct sentences, short sentences, facts, when short paragraphs, each idea or fact in one particular paragraph. Then civil procedure court specifies the manner in which you can initiate a civil proceeding. You can't file a case in a court which does not have pecuniary jurisdiction. You cannot file a case in a court which does not have territorial jurisdiction. Therefore, sections 15, I mean 16 to 20, 20 of the civil procedure court mandate where you can file a civil suit. So, court of civil procedure, that is the reason why I said you must be thorough with the court of civil procedure. That enables you to, supposing you go and file a civil suit in a court which does not have jurisdiction, after sometime it will be returned and your client will be the most unhappiest of the persons because it will delay the relief that he is entitled to. Then you have section order one which of the civil procedure court which specifies with regard to the joiner of parties or the misjoiner of parties as well as causes of action. You have order two rule two which specifies that when you have a certain cause of action, you must ask all the reliefs in relation to that cause of action feeling which you will not be entitled to seek the relief thereafter. That is the reason why I said you must know the law, then life of the lawyer becomes easier. Then you have order six, order seven, order eight which indicates as to the manner in which pleadings have to be drafted, what is it that you are required to state therein and how you have to go about while presenting a plea. These are the facts or the procedures or the strategies if I can use that expression with regard to filing of the case. Filing of the case is just the beginning as we all know the matters linger on for years, then comes the stage of evidence. Of course, the subject here is strategies for filing and defending of civil cases. But mere filing is not sufficient because if a person has to defend, then the matter will have to come for evidence later. What is it that you are required to do? Apart from sitting with the client with regard to the collation of the facts while preparing the plea or even the written statement, a lawyer at the time of evidence will have to sit with the client and understand what is it that you are required to what kind of an evidence you are required to lead. You cannot coach the witness, but there is what is known as briefing a witness. You must be able to brief him with regard to the facts. You must be able to sit with him and ask him as to what are the things that he knows about the facts relating to his own case. Then you have the written statement. Same thing that applies to drafting of the plaint will also apply to the written statement. Order 8 provides for the procedure and the manner in which the written statement has to be filed. Order 8, normally as I see and this is a mistake that every one of us make, when there is a specific everment in the case in the plaint, a general denial is not sufficient. There must be a specific denial failing which the statement made in the plaint is deemed to be admitted. The mistake that lawyers normally commit is they go in for general denials which will not result in the denial of the actual facts of the case pleaded by the plaintiff. Order 8, rule 6, specifically mandates that there has to be a specific denial failing which the statement made therein is deemed to be admitted. In fact, Supreme Court in 2008, 13 SCC 466 has held that a plea not raised need not be considered. Therefore, all material facts will have to be settled both in the plaint as well as in the written statement. One of the things that order 6 always specifies that you will have to plead only facts. Material facts is all that you are required to mention either in the plaint or in the written statement. But if it is a mixed question of law and fact, then you will have to have specific plea with regard to those matters as well. In fact, Supreme Court in AR 1970 Supreme Court 1818 has held that the plea on mixed question of law and fact cannot be gone into the absence of a specific plea. This is the reason why I always emphasize that a lawyer must know the law, must be thorough with the civil procedure code and the civil rules of practice. It will help the lawyer enormously and the client in turn. Particles are required to be set out order 6 rule 4 mandates that in a particular must be given allegations of fraud. You know civil procedure code, I don't think that I need to tell you because civil procedure code sets out and specifies that fraud, undue influence, all of them there must be a specific plea. If it is not specifically pleaded, a general plea is not sufficient. And ultimately, if you have a case of fraud, if you don't have specific plea, if you have not dilated on it, the court will not accept your plea of fraud or undue influence. Order 6 rule 8, sorry I said order 6 rule 6, it is order 6 rule 8, which mandates that there must specific denial of statements made in the pleading, in the pleading of the opposite party. While preparing the written statement, same rigmarole, the same yardstick must be applied and must be used. The same strategy must be used. When you prepare a written statement, you must sit with the client, call it as much information as possible, know the law and set out the written statement. I mean, set down to draft the written statement. That is when you will be in a better position to draft out the written statement. Short sentences, direct sentences, short sentences, small paragraph, each idea and the fact in separate paragraph, even in the written statement, that will help the, ultimately the client in enormously. Then you have the evidence, which I briefly touched a little while ago. One of the things that normally lawyers do is they want to be extempore. They will go there and start asking questions. That is not a good way of going about conducting evidence. One must spend a lot of time. If you are examining a witness and you are the person and the witness is your own witness, you can only put leading, you can't put leading questions. You can only ask him questions, leading questions are to be eschewed. So you will have to prepare well, ensure that all the facts are elicited from that client or the witness. How do you do that? If you don't prepare well, if you ask him, look, your name is so-and-so, it's a leading question that will be objected to, unless it is an admitted fact in the plaint itself. So the only way is, you will have to ask him what his name is. Now, why I am mentioning this is, especially when it comes to cross-examination, lawyers think that they can go there and start the cross-examination, extempore without proper preparation. One of the things that a good lawyer will always do is prepare well the questionnaire. If you ask me, every lawyer should draft out the questions that he wants to pose to the opposite side witness. Extempore, two things occur. If you think that you can go there and start cross-examination without preparation, two things can occur. Two pitfalls can be there. One, you may forget to ask questions which are relevant. Two, you will fall into that trap many a times if you have not prepared well. If you want the witness to be cited at Delhi, the way you have to go about you must ensure that he agrees that he is not anywhere in the south of India. Go proceed further. Ensure that he says that he is nowhere in the western and the northern side of India. That is how you will have to go about and to do that, you will have to prepare a well drafted questionnaire beforehand. Yes, after you ask the questions, you may have to ask further questions. These are also some of the lawyers I have seen. They will ask the question, further questions they forget to ask. You must be able to think on your legs. Of course, that is an art which you develop by sheer practice by looking at other lawyers who are cross-examining. During my younger days, of course, today I find that this except that students who come to witness the proceedings in the courts, lawyers, even the younger lawyers have no time. But that shouldn't happen. When I was young or at least my peers and contemporaries during those days, if a good lawyer was there, say, for example, Nariman came to argue a matter in the High Court. We would all flock to that court, try to find out how he argues, in what manner he argues. How does he impress the judge? How does he answer the questions in which are posed by the judge? Difficult questions. How will he parry the questions? How will he avoid the questions? In what manner will he be able to answer the questions? Secondly, cross-examination is an art by itself, as I said. When you have a good cross-examiner, if you watch him, you will imbue many traits of his and that will help you enormously at the time of your cross-examining somebody. These are small things but they go a long way. That is why it is said a lawyer has no time for his family. He has no time for anything else, for himself also. It's all devoted to the clientee. That is why it is said that law is a noble profession because we dedicate ourselves to that client to ensure that he gets justice. And we can proudly say that many of us do that day in and day out, even at the cost of our own family, friends, social circles. But ultimately, you are rendering justice. Justice is rendered not by just the judges but by the lawyers as well. When you present a case well, it enables or argue a case well. It enables the judge to comprehend the case and render a proper judgment in the best possible manner. So these are the few other things in relation to the civil litigation. After all, civil litigation, as I always said, is a never-ending saga because, one, we are a nation of 130 crore people. Second, the judge population ratio is 10 times more in the western world. Three, in the western world, while the costs are exorbitantly high, people settle here. The costs are very negligible, either the court fee or the lawyer's fee. And therefore, the litigants will merrily go on. Resultant position is you have how many, three crores or five crores litigation pending all across India. Therefore, delays are endemic. That's the reason why I said if there could be a settlement, please ensure that the settlement occurs. Ultimately, as I said, it will help you in the long run. So these are the few things that I thought I must share with you. Then you have, I don't know how much time I have taken. Oh, it's already 40 minutes. I'll have to give some time for questioning also. Maybe I'll give some more time at a later point of time because I had assured Mr. Vikas, long back, that I will be on a webinar some three months back. Went on post-polling it because I thought I was busy. And thanks to him, he went on pestering me, saying that look, I'll have to educate the lawyer community across the country. Therefore, you will have to come. Not that educated, but then I could share some experiences being in the field of law for the last 50 years, 49 years getting into the 50th year because experience is the greatest teacher. So some little experience I can share with you so that it will enable you to be a better lawyer and ultimately help your clientee to render or get proper justice. I think I'll stop here because I find that and I've already crossed 40 minutes. If questioning is there, questionnaires are there. I'm sure there will be many. So I would rather stop here and maybe come to you to share my knowledge and to acquire more knowledge from all of you because your questionnaire itself will enable me to go and do some research. Before I close, let me tell you all of you lawyers, please acquire AR manual. When you have a case, if you have the AR manual, which will, supposing that you have a case on specific performance, section 16, readiness and willingness, all that you have to do is to acquire knowledge on that. Go to the AR manual in a matter of 20 pages. Entire gamut of law, both this side and that side with the citations will be there and all in short snippets which enables you to understand. So one of the strategies that I would recommend to all of you is acquire just the online website based law lexicon is not sufficient. You must read. A lawyer must read. Unfortunately, what has happened to us, all of us is we get into the net, go into Manupathra, SCC online or many of these websites. Look at the marked highlighted portion and then we think that it is the ratio. One must read the decision. It will enable one to understand the ratio better, understand that the facts are what colors the ratio and therefore my recommendation to all young lawyers is read as much as possible of the law. Read the whole of the judgment, not just highlighted portions on your iPad or on your laptop. Read the judgment. In the long run it will make you a better lawyer. So I will now stop with the permission of Mr. Vikas and I will be able to take questions so that I have at least 15 minutes of question and answer session which as I said helps me also to understand the problems and not only that it will also educate me. Yes sir. So this is Iman. The question is in civil litigation as you have rightly said the procedure is provided in the civil procedure code and you have also said that you should learn about that but what about the substantive law? How can we get hold of the substantive law? It is a million dollar question. I will tell you why. The substantive law, supposing you have a case on specific performance. You want your client has come seeing that look and there is an agreement of sale. The other side is not agreeing to execute the sale deed. So it comes to you for filing a suit. What do you do? What are the various enactments which have a play on this litigation? One is a specific relief act. Second is the contract act or the first is a contract act. Second is a specific relief act. So these two, you must at least constantly glance through it. We all have read about it during our college days. In fact, I have said this. When you have a case, when you read the civil procedure code as it is within three pages, I will fall asleep. If I have a case on hand with the problem, if I read the very three pages, I will be very enthusiastic and I will not only read those three pages, I will continue for the next 30 pages. So substantive law is where you go into the various sections of the enactments which have a bearing. One, secondly, AR manual, as I said, go to it. Specific relief act, what are the sections? Section 16, section 20, just go to the AR manual. Take the particular manual, section 16, read the whole of it. 20 pages, you know, you are the master of law. Read another 20 pages of section 20, you know, you will be the master of law. Contract act, what are the nuances of this? We all have during our college days, you know, read through the contract act, read through some of the either commentaries or books, you know, which are, which have question and answer sessions and all that kind of a thing. But substantive law is when you apply your mind and read some of those judgments. Best thing is, what are the judgments that you are required to do? Judgments of your own high court or first judgment in the Supreme Court and second judgments of your own high court. It's not an easy task. I know that. But ultimately, when you are in this profession, please also bear in mind, our profession is not the only profession where, you know, you dedicate yourself. What do the doctors do? In fact, I suffered from COVID about four months, I mean, three, four weeks back. I met a doctor who was into this COVID from the very beginning. And he was telling me, during the peak of COVID, I would, sir, go home at 10. I'll get a call at 12. I'll come back, go home at 12, 30. I'll get a call at 2. I'll go home again at 2, 30. I'll get a call at 3, 30. So he said, sleep was not my fault at that time. If I had snatched sleeps of 15 minutes every now and then, I was thankful to God. So please remember, you are into service oriented profession. And therefore, you have to devote your time and attention. And substantive law is when you read all these. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Sir, the next question is, just for you to take. In fact, let's assume you have come to a reticence and it's right for this thing, arguments. So how do you prepare for the arguments as such at your home so that you can structure your arguments? One of the things that one must always remember is the facts of the case are extremely relevant. So what is it that you have to do? Prepare a list of dates and synopsis. Those of you who have seen the pleadings in the Supreme Court, they have in the beginning a list of dates and synopsis. Even our High Court has adopted it. I've been utilizing that format for a very long time. So when you have a short synopsis with the list of dates, which encapsulates the synopsis as well, it will enable the judge to understand the facts of the case at the earliest. Second, sorry, yes Vikram, anything? Sorry, am I muted? No, you are muted. Vikram, close. Just hold on. Meanwhile, sir, I will ask to unmute himself. Meanwhile, it says, sir, you have said that fraud matters, pleading should be specific. In fraud case of money, how do you specifically plead in a summary suit? In a summary suit, is it? I'm sorry, I didn't get that question properly. I don't know, till I get back, till Vikram gets back, let me tell you this. Even when you argue a matter before the court, if you are brief with the busy writing in mind, you are better off. If you are brief and to the point, the judge appreciates you. We have all seen, there are lawyers who will go on arguing endlessly and for hours on end, after some time when the judge sleeps. On the contrary, if you are crisp to the point, take him through various documents that you want him to look at, then the judge is enthused to listen to your argument. Short submissions, brief submissions is always welcome because normally what happens is judges are always too busy. They have too many cases. So when you are able to encapsulate the whole factual matrix and the law into, compress it and be brief, he will always appreciate you better. Now that summary suit, I didn't… Summary suit. As far as summary suit is concerned, it is not summary pleading. It is a regular pleading. Only thing is, in respect of certain of the matters, you can file a summary suit. That's all. It's not summary pleading or summary plaint that you have to file. Yeah. Civil procedure code itself provides for summary suit. All that you have to do is read the order 32 or whatever it is. I have also started forgetting because I don't go to the trial courts nowadays, though I have gone for a number of years. Sorry. I have also started forgetting the civil procedure code because it's such a vast enactment and it has also stood the test of time, 1908 till now. So this is one has posted on the WhatsApp as well as on the YouTube and one has posted on the same. So I will take a common question. It says that you have said that preliminary objections should be raised in the written statement. So how do you formulate within your mind that how to formulate the preliminary objections? Because they say that it is actually the pith and substance of whatever you want to make a submission so that if the judge comes having read that written statement, he gets a hand that what is the basic defense of the defendant or a respondent. Okay. One of the things is what is a preliminary objection? Preliminary objection is when you say that the plaint is not maintainable for XYZ reasons. If there's a preliminary objection with regard to the maintainability itself, that must come in the beginning. See the defense, many a times what happens is people will first take the case of the plaintiff and start dilating on that. On the contrary, my recommendation to everybody is in the written statement, first set out your own facts, preliminary objections in the beginning. Thereafter, what is it that according to you are the true facts? Set it out. Thereafter, start denials and reference to the pleadings of the plaintiff and your own version of those pleadings. As far as preliminary objections are concerned, it could be misjoiner or non-joiner of parties. It could be territorial lack of jurisdiction in the court. It could be limitation. It could be like seeing that the cause of action itself has not a reason. All that has must come in the beginning of the written statement. So preliminary objections in the beginning. Secondly, your own case, what is it that you as the defendant see is the factual matrix because the plaintiff would have given his version of it. You will have to give your version of the case, your version of the facts. That will enable the judge to appreciate your case better as the defendant. Your case as a defendant better. Thereafter, start dilating on the facts as the evidence of the plaintiff. There is a state council, one of my friend was discussing with me. He said that whenever we used to read because there has never been a state council, he said that the judge should be given at the first instance so that the state council doesn't have the time because there are so many briefs. So that at least he has a hang of it. So that is the best way if you have to defend it from the state side. I am just taking that question since you have that vast experience of advocate general. Yes, sir. In fact, I also said in the beginning that the state council are suffering from a number of disabilities. One is the person who comes to brief you will not have the full facts at all. Second, there are change of officials. The matter may relate to somebody who has already been transferred. The present incumbent will come. He will not have the necessary wherewithal or the facts to tell you. So one of the things that a council must do is state council, if you can look into the file, you will get some idea. Secondly, if you can get the same official who was there at the relevant time when this cause of action arose, he will be in a better position to give you the details. Third, as I said, you will have to ferret out information. In Kannada, we have a saying. If I can use that colloquial language. That means you take a stick and take out the information from his mouth. That is what is needed as far as state councils are concerned. They really suffer from enormous amount of disabilities. And I have also said this many a times, they will be arguing without fight, without information, without instructions. So if you are a state council, you will be in a better position to argue before anything because without filing or arguing, without instructions, you have argued without facts, you have argued. So you will be able to face any judge and any situation. So that way, the state councils are blessed because when they come back into private practice, they are more experienced in dealing with diverse matters and in the most difficult of situations. Rukam, you have this very pertinent question, sir. Of course, slightly digress from the main topic, but nevertheless, very important. Mr. Ravi has this question. I am a Kannada medium student getting very tough in draft in English. What is your kind suggestion? Sir, as far as drafting is concerned, language is very, very important. Without a good language, you will not be able to draft out well. After all, the ability to draft depends on the mastery that you have over the language. So Kannada medium student must, as far as possible, try to acquire more knowledge of English language. One of the things is today, fortunately, you have the ability to get into the net. There are enough websites which teach you better English. Why not join them? Let me tell you this. My mother was an SSLC. Her English was far superior than even an MA English. Why? Because she started reading. So one of the things that a Kannada medium person should do is read as much English novels and even the judgments. See, from judgments itself, if you read Krishna's judgment, you may require a dictionary. But then look at the felicity of his language or take, for example, Justice Chandrachud's judgment. The Chief Justice Chandrachud's judgment. Everything in a chronological manner. He puts an index in the beginning, each idea in a different topic. So that is what it is. English language, please not have a mother tongue. But then you must have mastery over it. Many a times in certain areas, you can also draft in Kannada. So but at any rate, you must also mastery over Kannada language. You may have come from a Kannada medium school. But many a times they won't have mastery over that language. Have mastery over the language, both English as well as say Kannada or Hindi or whatever. That's very, very important. It will also enable you because even at the time of arguments, if you are eloquent, that eats out of your hand. If you are not eloquent, then he starts sleeping. So for eloquence, you must have mastery over the language. One of the things is they must try to read, acquire mastery over English language. It's not that difficult. Absolutely. This is Ajay says, how do you schedule your day as a lawyer to incorporate legal learning research? And I will also add meeting the clients and guiding your associates. That again, as I was saying, is a multi-million dollar question. A lawyer, if you are not well, I'm sure many lawyers have also experienced this. Today I have fever. I will not be able to come. The client will say, sir, please come in or at least finish my case and they're after going to take risk. This is the experience of all lawyers. And so are the experience of doctors also. Please bear that in mind or of a professional. Now, the time management is extremely important. You must induce certain management principles. Retake some books on management, time management, man management, or human management. Even at home, if you are married, you must be able to keep your wife happy. Otherwise, you will not have a domestic peace. If you don't have domestic peace, you will not be able to do your job as a professional in a proper manner. So, you know, management techniques must be evolved. Ability to evolve management techniques and make it a part of your life, you will be better off. Time management, there are books on time management. How do you do this? Yes, today what has happened is one thing that I've always noticed is a client comes with a piece. One of the things that one can always do is immediately call the stenographers if you are accustomed to dictation or take the facts and put it in the chronological manner because he's the master of facts. One of the things that I would always advise to the lawyer is when a client comes, if he has a plane that he wants you to draft, set out the facts in his presence. He will be able to guide you better, make a draft draft. That should not be the end, that should only be the beginning. You must correct and correct and correct. Let me tell you, my friends, I don't want to name. He was one of our judges who ultimately became the judge in the Supreme Court and one of the finest of the judges. He would always have three drafts of his judgment. First draft, he will correct it because there will be a lot of mistakes because the stenographers make mistakes. Second draft, he will correct the law, the nuances, the language. So if a judge at the Supreme Court can have this, why not urge lawyers? Two, management techniques. You have given appointments, try to be brief with them, give them appointments correctly and as far as dividing the time factor, for the time that is available to you, for research, for drafting, for preparation of the case, yes, you will have to bifurcate it into different compartments. Facts, when the client is there, he will be the master. Two, research can only be after he leaves your chamber because with him, of course, you will be able to do some research but not what is needed. Probably, you will have to sit early in the morning. This judge whom I was referring to would get up at four in the morning and draft out his judgments. That's the kind of work that one has to put. That is when you succeed in the life. I think I had already stated this earlier. Palkiwala, in the beginning, did not have work. He was one of the greatest lawyers that India had. Just as Chandler writes in his memoir, in his book on roses in December, a young lawyer came to me because I was the vice chancellor of the Bombay University, wanting to use the university library. I permitted him gladly and he says he is none other than Palkiwala. So, as much knowledge as possible, time management techniques, these are things in which once it becomes a part of you, then it becomes easier for you. It's like habit. Make it a habit. If you start biting the nail, after some time, unconsciously you start biting the nail. So, similarly, disciplined way of going about time management being adopted, management techniques being part of your life and your professional career, it will become a part of you. It will become a part of your habit. And therefore, your professional career becomes easier and your life becomes easier. In continuation to this question, Mr. Ashish Krupakar has the similar question. Could, sir, please throw some light on how to stay fit and manage time? Of course, sir has already touched on managing time. I would like to request, sir, to speak about how to stay fit. Nevertheless, I am asking the right person. I am cautious about it. How to? Sorry, last one. How to stay fit? Physically fit, sir? Stay fit. Yes. I am asking the right person. No, no. See, one thing that is very, very important for a lawyer is health. Because if you are healthy, then you are in a better position to carry out your professional activities better. What do you do? You have to have exercise to keep your body fit, either yoga or walking, jogging for youngsters, jogging, or you can get into various other courses like karate or taekwondo or even pilates. If you are healthy, you are definitely in a better position to do the work better, be able to carry out your professional work in a more professional manner. So fitness is absolutely essential in any profession, more so in our profession because our work transcends the entire waking hours of our time. So therefore, one must be fit, at least, you know, devote at least about half an hour for exercise, yoga or that kind of a fitness regimen is absolutely essential. Thank you, sir. The last question from my end is how one deals with a judge who is being very difficult. In fact, judges are, no, we all, my son feels that I am being rude to him. When I tell him, no, no, this is not the way I have to do it. This is the way I have to do it. I do it in a very brusht manner. Many judges are brusht because they don't have time to be nice because time is too short for them. So we think that, you know, he's a difficult judge. No judge is difficult. I remember years back, some 35 years back, one of my juniors, two of my juniors came and told me that one judge who ultimately, you know, in the district court who was ultimately became the judge of the high court. Sir, I'm never meant he's always angry. I said, all right, I'll do and argue a matter before him. Please come along with me. So I took up one of the matters which they were handling, went there, argued the matter. For the first time, there was smile on the judge's face. They asked, they told me, sir, for the first time, we're seeing him smiling. Why did he smile? Because every question that he asked or posed to me, I had an answer. So you must go well prepared. If you are well prepared, judges will eat out of your hand, whoever it be. There are no difficult judges. Every judge, of course, see, ultimately, no finger, no two fingers are the same. They are all different. So he's, you know, human personality. There are judges who are brusque. There are judges who have abundant patience. There are judges who are impatient. But man management, woman management, that's what I said. Read books on management, how to influence people and that Dale Carnegie's book. Why not you read it? There are other books on management techniques. Please read them. Look at the way, you know, other lawyers conduct themselves in that difficult judge's court. How do they manage? Judge asks a question. They have already answered. The same thing. Another lawyer comes. Judge asks a question. He doesn't answer. Judge gets irritated. So he becomes difficult. So sit in a court where there are difficult judges. See how lawyers, good lawyers tackle the judge. In view of that, you are better off. These are the strategies that we must always adopt and evolve. That's why I said today, people don't have time. Earlier days, whenever there's a good lawyer, whenever there's a good argument, whenever there's a good class examination, we will go and sit and watch. That's why I think I did say this. When kumle balls, man is out. When I bow, it goes for a six. So watch how he bows. In what manner he twists his finger or checks the ball. Ultimately, what is the pace that he takes? Go and observe. You learn an enormous amount of things when you sit in a court and observe. Many times, lawyers, when they don't have time, they go and sit in the canteen. Please don't do that. Sit in a court. You will learn. For the asking, you will have a ketina of judgment with somebody who would have cited. Just make a note of it. Go back to your office. Just see if this is the correct thing. This is what is education. You are being educated every day in a court of law. Sit there. It's a minefield of knowledge. So there is nothing like a difficult judge or an easy judge. It's how you tackle him. It would be mine. Submission to all youngsters. It is just like what they say. We can say today of Surya Kumar, Yadav Tandoorkar. They say that you take them to any pitch they will it's not that in India they will do well or abroad they will do well or without Koli. He will be doing well everywhere. It's only practice. As Mahabharata said, Bhim was asked that how do you eat your food even in the dark? He said it's only practice and practice. Arjun, nothing beyond that. So, Nithika asks on the YouTube, she says how do you pick which volume of the AIR is relevant for the issue in hand for which the case is to be prepared? Sorry, would you repeat that? How would you? Let's assume a client comes. You said you would read the AIR manual. How do you gather that because you have tremendous knowledge that which AIR manual has to be picked up for the purposes of looking into the subject? That's why you must know the subject. If the client comes with the contract dispute, where do you look at? You look at the contract act. Then which are the sections? Yes, section 3, section 5, section 10, then go to the AIR manual, just flip those through some 5 pages, 10 pages. You will understand in what the law is, both this side as well as that side. And that will help you better to draft either the plaint or the written statement or even while cross-examining. Let me give you an illustration. These are, of course, those we always say on the jamanah, that is, my old days, there was a case where there was an agreement for purchase of a property. 8 crores was the amount. By the time the case came up for final disposal, the property value had risen to 100 crores. Even this 8 crores, what is it that I am required to ask him, the witness in the witness box? I asked him whether or not he had funds. He said, yes. Have you produced any material? He said, yes. Which is the material? He pointed out his bank statement. The balance payable was 6 crores. 2 crores he had paid. I said, I close my case. Why? Because the balance sheet, his own bank statement showed that he had only 2 crores. He had to pay 6 crores. And the judgment of the Supreme Court is that you are not entitled to specific performance if you don't have necessary funds. So, knowing the law will help you enormously, not only in drafting the pleadings, but also at the time of cross-examination. So, AR manual helps. It's not that that's the end of everything. It is only the beginning. After all, when you look at the AR manual, what is it? They're all in short snippets. Sometimes what is mentioned there may not be the correct position of law also. But it will enable you to get an idea of how different courts have dealt with that particular subject or particular section. Yes, sir. This is which is normal. A lot of people ask, especially after the youngsters, is it going to join straight away in the High Court or one should have the practice of the District Court also? If you ask me, first thing that a lawyer must do is go to the trial court, work there for two years. You are better off. You can thereafter go anywhere in the country, but even if it be Supreme Court. After all, how do you conduct an arbitration case, even if it is a thousand crores of arbitration? Unless you know how to cross-examine the witness, you will not be able to succeed. So, how do you learn? If you go straight away to the High Court, unless it is Delhi, Metras or Calcutta, you don't have original site. So, you don't have ability to do money. You don't acquire the ability to cross-examine. In a civil case, art of cross-examination is a very, very important aspect. If you are able to demolish a witness, nothing like it and you succeed only on that basis. Like I said, all that I asked him in the cross-examination was, how much have you produced in your funds? He said, yes. What is the proof? This statement of a bank statement. All right, bank statement, please mark it. That's it. So, that's how it is. The next question which normally arises before we take that question, once you said of habit, I read it and probably we have shared it on the YouTube channel also. They said, habit would be derived of five words that it is, first it is it, then you add, then it becomes bit, then you do more, it's a bit and then you keep on practicing, it becomes a habit. Absolutely. That's why I always tell you to know Vikas, because he always has these snippets which educate us, including me. Yeah, it is as good as showing a bug to a son. So, we can't at least show his sunshine to you. You're already full of sun. So, is there any way one can work fairly in High Court and Trial Court so that we're able to keep that? It could be. It is possible. If you join a senior's office, you can be, after all, Trial Court, how long will it be? When you have some time, you can go to the High Court and then you know what the proceedings there. You can do both. After all, in residency towns, you have the ability to be in the High Court itself because trial takes place there itself. But what happens is, as a youngster, say if somebody comes to my office in the beginning, he will not be able to handle any case for the simple reason. There are seniors, I am there. So, whereas if he goes to the Trial Court and gets into a smaller office, he will have the ability to start arguing small matters, cross-examine somebody, draft out a plane which will not be possible when you go into an office of a larger office. You know, it's like I have said this also. If you want to learn swimming, don't jump into the ocean. Jump into the swimming pool. You will learn better there. In the ocean, you will get swept away. So, it's both ways. I will just take a queue. Maybe I'm cutting you across. I just read it today itself. One of the Japanese court had said that if you ask frog who is in the well, he will feel the best and the longest length of the well is that much. So, until always you go to So, I would just share with you, let's assume somebody joins your office. This is my personal experience of the profession is that he joins and then a lot of bureaucrats, a lot of big business come. So, they would feel that probably we are and this is actually working very well. So, in normal course, what happens is once you leave that office that bureaucrat feels, maybe you are a lawyer, you would feel that I will not do it in a consolidated fees and that institution will not do. But if the bureaucrat has seen your work, he will say why don't you, I can impanel you. Maybe he would not do it of his own. But once you request, then it can always be that yes, I will get you impaneled and you can get work. So, once you are in the sea, I say other way round that there are chances that you can pick out the pearls also and you can also eat the fish. Whereas, if you are in small, this volume would be less. What's your take? That's why I said my recommendation is two years, not eternally there in the trial court. Oh, joining a big office and a small office, I'm comparing on that. Yeah, bigger office and I'm not saying, I'm all that I'm saying is bigger or smaller, but in the trial court, what I meant was that, sorry. I agree with you that in a bigger office, they'll have exposure better. There'll be different types of cases, definitely so. I can't deny that fact at all. So, another question which normally comes up, like we did normally with you and Mr. P. S. Rajakopal and many other lawyers, we take on questions which are of the in a routine in the canteen or in a bar rooms we keep on discussing. Like if you join a big office, they say that there are already 10 associates. How do you create that space? And you also have a very big office. So, how do you feel that a youngster who comes and he catches the eyeballs of Mr. Hola? I'm just giving an example. How do you, he catches the eyeball of the senior and he starts getting work? What is your take on that? Levy is he must go out with the senior, try and when cases come up, at least do some research and give it to the senior. That is when he catches the eye of the senior. Otherwise, there are so many people, if you just simply carry the file and do nothing behind him, then you are not, I mean your attention, the lawyer's attention is elsewhere. He who helps him, he will start helping the other person, person who helps him. Like if somebody does some research, gives me, look, these are the judgments in which help you. These are the paragraphs or list out a list of dates and synopsis and give it. That is when the attention of the senior is drawn to you. When you start working, if you come to the office at 10.30, whereas the senior comes at 9.30, how will you get the attention of the senior? He goes home at 9, you go home at say 7 itself, then senior will not give you work. So hard work, this profession, hard work is all that counts and nothing else. People who may not have that much of a knowledge, if they are put in hard work, they have risen to the top. Even though knowledge wise, they may not be as good as others who do not have work, but hard work, client looks at it. In fact, let me tell you this, if you argue a case before a court and the client sees you arguing, put in your best, ultimately, in spite of all that you lose, he will say, sir, you did your best. God didn't give the judge wisdom to pass an order in my favor. He will be your client eternal. If you put in your hard work, but on the contrary, if you don't put in hard work, then the moment the case is lost, he will go somewhere else. Or even if you succeed, he will say, oh, what did he do? Judge himself will get granted me the relief. So hard work, youngsters must do that hard work. Yeah. So point well taken that you have to work hard rather than hardly working. So it says, how do you master the lower court procedure if you don't have much practice? Because simplicity reading CPC, CRPC, etc. without actually practicing. What will be your take? The courts sit there, you will learn. That will enable you. Like somebody is arguing a civil case on a partition. He will be referring to various provisions of Hindu law or Mohammedan law or other personal laws. When you sit there, thereafter, come back to the office, just browse through those sections. You are better off. Sir, this is, it says, is it the same way? Can you start practice straight away in the Supreme Court or you should have some experience of the High Court? Today, you can straight away become a judge also in terms of the judgment of the Supreme Court. But then if you ask me, unless you have some experience of men and matters coming straight from the college, how good a judge can you be? You must know the problems of the people. That is possible when you are a lawyer dealing with the people. So similarly, if you go straight away to the Supreme Court, yes, there are people who have gone straight away to the Supreme Court. They have also been successful, no doubt at all. But you are better off going to the trial court, learning how to cross-examine, learning the nuances of law, learning the procedures. You have a broader vision. In fact, if you ask me, look at the Supreme Court judges and the judgments that they have written. Persons who have dealt with trial work, they were better judges than those who straight away went to the High Court and became judges of the High Court and the Supreme Court. Sir, before we part, I can just say that today it's an actual learning session for everyone. We had always heard and read that it's always learn. But once you learn, then remove the end and you will only earn enough. Everybody is a learner till the end. Moment he thinks and he knows everything and he becomes a fool. What I am saying, there's only a difference between learn and earn is that you remove the ale, after sometime it automatically, it's earned. So thank you everyone. Stay safe, stay blessed. And it's always a pleasure connecting with Mr. Hola and Mr. Vikram and his associates. Thank you. And tomorrow we have a session with Mr. Shingar Murali as to how you can get the fraudulent sale deed set aside without proceeding for the civil suit. So do stay connected with us at 6 p.m. And thank you Mr. Hola. It's always. Thank you very much. The words came up. The educator of lawyers. Thank you. Thank you.