 Additions or amendments to the agenda. I'll go right into the minutes For visitors out there. Yeah, we have a visitor You signed in. All right, do we have to do the swearing in if it's just a work session? Well, it's Nice to have an opportunity to speak my last attempts getting on to the remote PC meetings have failed terribly with Maya desktop Yeah, Nick Meyer Pleasant Street I wish there were more Residents here to give feedback to the hard work that you're doing But I do think that the PC should take a page from the trustees by posting After each meeting a summary of what you've talked about From the LDC and possible changes that you might be making however, you do have Some posts that come out that you are I think very difficult for the general public to understand That it would be really nice to have language that the public can relate to a little bit easier than just going to The minutes and the information that you've provided as the consultant And I think this could be done, you know within a week On front porch forum and maybe on the Facebook pages as the trustees do and it's really helpful and That way people can read that Think about it and maybe get back to you. I know you discussed it in the last last meeting And I hope you really move on that especially during this important time. I Think I will read this just to go a little bit faster. I've got a few a lot of bullet points That's okay. Sure. Yeah, a Couple of things I was glad to see that you were be extending or maybe extending the design district to the street quarters coming into five corners The route 15 corridor is going to see significant redevelopment pressure and it needs to be done, right? We do not need a repeat of the good stuff building I'm still not sure how that project could have been approved administratively and not reviewed by the entire PC Housing There's been some discussion to expanding accessory apartment language to allowing single family homes To add apartments and eliminating the owner occupied provision. I Tread really slowly on this one Given that absentee ownership can often lead to poor maintenance and upkeep The village has a difficult enough time enforcing our regulations as is We do not have a rental registry or inspection program in the village And we have a great deal of older buildings that are residential rentals I would encourage you to push for such a program as is done in Barry Burlington Winooski to help with The housing stock of having safe housing stock the state Almost embarked on a statewide program But the governor shot it down I wasn't sure how it would be done with only adding five inspectors for the entire state so I think it should be done on a On a local level. We have enough rental housing in this community From your earlier discussions it appears that you plan to leave in place We know front setback requirement in the village center district As the new Maple Street and Park Street buildings take shape You can see these narrow sidewalks smack on very busy roads with no buffers from the road And in fact on the Pearl Street project you have a wall right there One of the most important Attributes of the community is its walkability Village residents have voiced the importance of walkability and green spaces time and time again in workshops and surveys I do not believe we are honoring their wishes a Larger setback allows a buffer from the road and opportunities for other amenities like benches and trees As you may have read downtown Burlington is seen a seven degree increase in temperature on our hottest days Compared to the tree portions of the city This will likely become worse as our climate further warms Shading pavement with trees helps minimize the urban heat sink We should not substitute this requirement The idea of closing Main Street and creating a park is but a dream and may never come to fruition There are steps that we can take now to provide green space The village needed redevelopment in the center district and I supported it while a PC member We had a plan and developer developers came We now see the results and it is time to tweak the LDC to improve what comes next and create a better Inviting streetscape for all residents Redevelopment will still happen. I encourage you to look at what some of our surrounding communities have done Like the St. Paul Street in your Main Street in Burlington and in Manuski Falls way There are great places to walk and call out for social engagement The Vermont Green Streets God This one here is a terrific guide that was and I you can find it on the Tree advisory committee rep website under resources and I can make it available too But it it really gives you some great examples of what some communities have done Small and large in terms of traffic calming I wanted to bring to your attention that there have been a group of residents who are seeking a Process that they could go to the trustees and look at traffic calming in their neighborhoods The Pleasant Street is being repaved now and as many of you know, it's a shortcut between Village high school parks and others and We've had a nice bumpy road for years and it's kind of slowed people down So there's a group that's looking to come up with a process of the trustees have endorsed it We'll be working with Rick Hamlin on some ideas of what can be done and There are numerous other neighborhoods who are looking at this as well and so I wanted to keep you guys in the loop about this and Anything any meetings or information we have was certainly going to be sending to you as you might think about things like this In the downtown area as well So now speaking from my hat is being on the tree advisor committee When you begin reviewing section 719 on landscaping I hope you will ask us for suggestions and we would like to Give you input and I'm trying to find out when You might be taking up that section of the LDC so we could try and be prepared But we sure want to work with you and what we're trying to do as I've said before It's really difficult to do it down here in the downtown area. We've made incredible inroads around the community and We'd like to focus here too. Thank you. That's what I got. Thank you one thing I will say Nick we haven't been talking about absentee land large with Accessory dwelling units what we have been talking about is it's a restrictive at the minute that Only the 30% portion can be rented and the larger house has to be owner of the time You're thinking of give them either or so that the owner can live in the apartment The larger family can live in the house. That's what we've been discussing just adding That's great. I think that would be good I think the rental registry program is so key to this It's attractive who is ready who's not because there are a lot of rental units that are totally Going on and they don't have to meet they don't Fire safety Especially when you take in older housing stock And Robin is that something that the trustees would need to Like propose or would we that's me that we would propose to them and they would say that seems like a good idea We could propose something to them as Nick said the governor did veto What had been voted on on Peter, but people are thinking if I Know set his veto Enough boats in favor of it Right good to ask for a new housing committee I believe they are looking into that because that was when I went to the meeting they were discussing that course it was I think it was vetoed by the government of following week Which of course does step backwards But yes, I believe they are Intuned into that one. Yeah, I think the stumbling block might have been that they encoded short-term rentals in it Yeah, there are because They're two different things a short-term rental and a primary residence It's very different from a short-term rental and an income Producing property to use separated those two. I think we probably have gone through Perhaps some of you'll make that revision and maybe it'll move forward. I did actually write to the sponsors of the bill Well, there's always January So well we've exhausted our audience, so I guess we're I guess we're on the minutes If everyone had a chance to review him Movement to approve as is I go to approve the second second all in favor And that's both sets of minutes Yes, I Wasn't here in one set. So yeah, we should read I Wasn't here on the June 3rd one you're like to read them Should we do them separately or are we happy with that There's no objections and I guess we'll jump right into the work session Bring up a chapter and we kind of go through it Yeah I can hear I do want to note that we have changes for the remaining chapters that we didn't send Unfortunately, we just couldn't get them to in time for this meeting But our plan is to make your August meeting if There's space on if that's part of your agenda Because we do have significant changes in chapter 7 that we want to propose or suggest Okay The plan to be the remainder and the appendices We just Jim had some things come up so he couldn't do his final review in time for this Yeah, it's most of our changes are in chapter 7. Yes Yeah, that's also That's also the one Nick was referring to yeah And do they have a copy of that? That's me that they can make it make Suggestions on sure. Yeah, so I will make A note of that myself, so It feels I think it's because I'm a mascot I can't hear as well doesn't make any Okay, so Chelsea when you folks get us chapter 7 I'll make sure to get it over to you The changes they were suggesting as a starting place Yeah, Nick I mean Nick knows who I am but yeah, she might I will have comments so We're starting with chapter 2. This is the definition section I'm gonna scroll quite a bit so I know people want to avert their eyes But I think the first thing is a comment it doesn't show up as a text edit There was a comment on page 4 yeah, okay, there it is. It's from Jim Yeah, so Jim has a question on page 4 Definition 34 talks about capital improvement, and it talks about public infrastructure for the most part And Jim's question was why just public facilities? I don't know if anybody has any thoughts about that I mean typically when we're talking about capital projects We are talking just about public Infrastructure well given that we only have control over the public infrastructure. I'm not private in Private it would make sense to me To have that is the definition. Yeah, and we go to capital committee right confusing if One definition covered something the capital committee did capital budget and so on so it has linkages Yeah, and the other thing about changing any of the definitions like does someone go through and checked in it I mean we'd have unintended consequences if we start changing definitions Are that is that the CCRPC are they able to go through and look and say okay? Well you change this here That's gonna have a huge ripple effect throughout Yeah, we can whatever edits in this section that makes sense we can try to go through and Make sure there's not any unintended consequences. I mean we can obviously do that, too. I just didn't I mean that seems If you make a change like a grandfathered anything that somebody you know what it means We also didn't change something We change something yeah Yeah Kind of depends on on how it's used in the code It's a really extensive list of definitions and so You know on the one hand you don't even necessarily need to have this extensive list of definitions But actually calling that is a huge effort as opposed to just Making these fit for today's time if there's something that logically needs to be I guess I would just argue for let's not change any unless they're really egregious or see them really Well, I guess my question is why why does Jim say? Why are you limiting it to public facilities? What was his idea behind that comment? That's rather in public in quotes, right? What do you mean by quote-unquote public? Chelsea do you have any insight on that? um the only thing I can think of is Like either with stormwater or wastewater if someone approached us and asked us to Take over something that was originally private You know we we it have to meet our this code and most cases it doesn't because that's why we didn't take it over in the first place So but I don't really I Mean this I guess maybe that would be considered a capital improvement if there was a really strong reason why the Municipality would want to take over control of that infrastructure That's the only thing I can think of Sure, but in that example once the municipality takes control does it not then become a public facility? Yeah Yeah, I think maybe just a random thought he had he didn't bring that we reviewed this together today And he didn't bring this one back up so I would say it's safe to move on Yeah Okay, there's I have track changes on page six, but I don't really Yeah, what's with 67 discharge stormwater Is there way to tell what did that? I like I can't help my printed copy Yeah Yeah, I Think that the definition is fine without that I'm thinking it was the addition it addition of those words in there, right? Yeah Yeah, I think because it says and subsequently enters. Yeah, I may not go directly to it. So I Think you can ignore that. It's just it's just tracking that new addition of the red print Yeah, this one I wouldn't Necessarily feel strongly about one way or the other in terms of I don't think it's gonna make or break anything Yeah, if you make the change or don't make the change But it doesn't have to enter another site to be stormwater. So I that's not really true. So Okay, I would just I don't know. I don't really know what that came from. Yeah, I don't remember, but it's fine. I wouldn't It's necessarily I'm gonna say yeah, but putting it in implies it has to go through another site Okay, somebody want to tell me the next page just easier that way It's page seven number 74 is an addition in That was not a change that I made to that. I think it's just an addition Chelsea. Oh, okay something about a plug drain Yeah, that's Jen also So I saw that one and I thought Well, so that that then by definition means that if it doesn't have a plugged drain that's not a dumpster Might not be such a good thing It also should probably have read under drain plug because plug drain implies that Yeah, you can get out. Yeah, right There's a drain plug implies that it's a plug you can put in I mean, it should it should have a drain and it should have a plug in the drain But but it's still a dumpster if it has that or it doesn't have that So I think that I don't think we should add that in because if it doesn't have that then we first gonna dump for the drain It's something that stores waste the end Yeah, and Chelsea, I assume if there's if we're getting to any of these definitions that are gonna Actually come up again in chapter seven And they these edits are necessary Um, just let us know but I'm not sure dumpsters are No, I don't know specifically Yeah, no, so I think we can delete Yeah Maybe what's a plug drill anyway Okay next page Yep The next one I'm seeing is page nine. It's 99 Accessory Yeah, well 99 and 105 Yeah, so um I don't uh It looks like a sentence is deleted here. Right gravel is not hard surface. Yeah Oh, well, I was arguing that it is considered a hard surface, but um Because now it we're regulated municipals are regulated with Preparing dirt roads from the storm water running off of that. So the state's treating that as a hard surface um, but It's not gonna it's we don't have any in the village. So it doesn't really affect us Sorry, would it hurt if after paving stones we just had comma gravel and similar material Yeah, that would work It just you have very simply said gravel is not considered a hard surface, but after the passion it is So take that out. It's still still permeas though or permeable So after paving stones put a comma and gravel in and finish the sentence with material I Guess it depends what setting you're referring to a hard surface For gravel because in some cases. Yes, it's still going to be permeable in other cases over time. It's it's not going to be it's going to act like concrete so Just and I I was looking at it from a stormwater lens I don't know that it necessarily applies to that part of the code So if it works in how you how it's used in other parts of the code then it can stay So right gravel gravel will be considered hard surface The changes to will be considered I think for stormwater purposes We want to take out that statement. Yeah. Yeah. So that's for sure what we want to do um I can do a search to see where and why hard surface is used in the ldc's if it's used for say Parking lots shall be hard surfaced. Oh, yeah, you may not want to allow gravel. Yeah, right. Right. Yeah We might want to continue to keep that out altogether. Okay, so I'll do that review Okay, that would work well. Thank you Yeah The hard surface of pavement Yeah, because some paving stones could be considered a stormwater, you know practice if you Depending how they're installed So I think this was a gym Addition potentially Yeah Yeah, he He's spread in this I guess Um, what's the difference in an accessory driver? I know because I have a comment on it. Oh, okay. I don't necessarily Well, we Yeah, I think he's referring to we've seen several cases In the village where people have too many cars. So then they start parking making like side driveways, but And then that could cause I think that's what he's referring to There's several just in the neighborhood around the wastewater plant I mean, I don't necessarily mind accessory driveling there for that purpose But then we would need a definition for accessory Right Yeah, because I'm not sure Um, I think our code actually says that we're not going to have accessory driveways You're not supposed to be parking on the lawn. I think if I remember correctly So we'd have to have a discussion about should we allow people to park on the lawn? No Um, right because that would that's what those accessory driveways are Is parking on the lawn? Yeah So if we actually put that in there, we are Allowing that So I understand Jim's concern. Maybe we need to do a little more enforcement People won't be happy, but um Maybe we should have a community discussion on parking on the lawn Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, it's a difficult one every I pass through five municipalities to get here and I haven't passed through one where people can park on the lawn Yeah Yeah, I mean In 10 days, I don't have to see permanent parking someplace else Well, there's there's been a few cases where we've had problems and like big they've been like putting excessive dirt into the roadway and we've actually addressed those specific examples and um had the homeowner You know had a conversation that they can't be doing that and they need to fix their drive their accessory drive that they've made because it's causing Damage to the road and problems I don't want to do this everywhere But it seems like sometimes we're so specific we put ourselves in a hole Because this could just be had not have that in there at all and could still be enforced Anything that is covered or covered such a way to prevent the infiltration of water then when you see it Yep, that's what it is You don't have to say well, and it's an accessory driveway and it's that and it's the other thing The definition is that I couldn't Yeah, could be put in could be put in not approved by the planning commissioner zoning board Um, how about we just that's not subject to the planning commission? Because it's not approved it shouldn't be there and just put our with you know enforce our regulations as such Yeah, we can't have well, maybe you can have it um because it's We have maybe is defined in a different fashion than you shall not um We have people who definitely plow their Frozen lawn so that they can park off street because there is no off street From through through april um So it you know do we want to get into is it okay to do it when it's frozen? Is it jealousy saying that when it's mud it's not great So do we define Define, you know, do we schedule it by yeah, you can park on the lawn from december 1st through april 1st Yeah, again, you get the january thought I think we just put in if it's not approved It has to be an approved use are we talking about parking on your lawn? Are we talking about an impervious surface that doesn't allow water to penetrate? Parking on your lawn water can still penetrate Right just told us it does it drains right out on the street Well, that's just uh, yeah what I meant by that is when over time if someone's you know going the same The same part in their lawn. It's gonna it becomes you know compacted. Yeah, that's okay. Okay. I see I'm just thinking I've seen people build a secondary Like paved. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was thinking of Oh They have a second curb cut they have to come to the village trustees to get that second curb cut In theory, of course, some of us would have to have a curb For those of us that have no curves it's real easy to park on the lawn. Yep I second that No, no bikes on the lawn either Diane. Just saying Can we can we come up with something that says, um This shall include Street driveway. I think we can only as approved by I think uh, we can either remove accessory driveway leave this as is Or to steve's suggestion take out a second sentence altogether Um, the issue of people driving on there parking second in a second location on their lot is Not going to be solved in this definition right here at all So we can put that in a parking lot list About something to address otherwise in the regulations if that if that makes sense to but my guess is that the regulations Don't allow it to begin with and it is just an enforcement issue Yeah, I think it just having one sentence is actually perfect. I agree Because it deals with the bin compacted, right? Yeah, it's just it says there's no room for wiggle. Yeah Every time we put in or similar to uses Oh, you know, it's like it's an open gate. Yeah, all right. So we're we're um, striking that one whole sentence And chelsea let it, you know This will be a little bit of an iteration back and forth if striking that gives you guys any anxiety Just circle back and let us let us know That's fine Okay, next We have like seven infrastructures. That's the national thing that's happening They're talking about broadband and all that it's not listed on here As part of infrastructure, uh, there's very little local Regulatory authority over that so I would say probably not Child care is in there too. In that case, it's Child care would be 157 157 157 Sorry, scrolling scrolling Okay This is the definition of public And jim has a question Um, so first jim added infrastructure, which I think makes total sense here Then he had a question about why Why are we talking about ownership? Um Because ownership is an issue with some of the uses listed here Uh Because it is so I think what he's getting at is public shall mean any use Which is sort of a weird thing. I guess there is sometimes public use on private property I think is the comment that he's making Mm-hmm in the second line it said used or owned by For example, we're using the parking land to fire bird cafe. We don't know that's public parking So if we put in used or owned by Right. Yeah, that's what I was trying to think of an example It's got a big sign up saying public parking right and it will stop after general public I mean, yeah, you can refer that applies to some of our stormwater infrastructure You know, we get easements to put it on private property, right? 14175 169 169 too Oh Sorry So 169 Redevelopment there's an addition there of any site or structure That's okay. Yeah. Yeah, I like it Okay, then 175 right of way There's an addition Of a public or private street or infrastructure Yeah, I think that makes sense. Yep. All right next one Looks like 193 Uh in addition to the stormwater retention facility definition Um, that makes sense facility designed and constructed to hold end or treat that makes sense. Yeah, perfect Um, there's a addition and comment on 194 Uh, and chelsea, this is from you. You change. Yeah better match state definitions Yep, but it you are right your comments correct. It should say and so for precipitation and materials dissolved or suspended in it Okay Um, but it's just it might as well, you know, if it's defined one way by the state, we might as well make it The same 17 to 15 It's highlighted Yeah, wireless telecommunication service. So jim's got a question about this Um Yeah, so this uh is the same question that you just had um Um So why are there telecommunication is in kind of a weird place where um municipalities have The ability to approve it Because like a new cell tower, let's say for example Uh developers have the choice they can come to a municipality and get approval and act 250 Or they can go to the public service board This has been in place for years. It has a sunset and the sunset keeps getting extended Most people go to the public service board. It's been a long time since so some folks have gone to the local level But because it's still in there and there's the potential that that sunset would last You've got regulations for wireless telecommunication approval Um, I don't think there's any real benefit or need for you folks to go through the effort of trying to get that up to date With everything that could possibly Well, the very last time we had something is we got noticed that somebody wanted to put But it was in the corner or the middle of the road or something. They had determined that this particular G gps site was actually perfect for them And it was like in the middle of the sidewalk crossing or something and we said Can we make input and say no not a good site not not in the middle of a crosswalk? Yeah And so that was our only input what did happen somebody came in and they wanted to put one At the edge of the curb in front of post office square. Yeah, and they said it was utility So they didn't really know our approval. So I pointed out to them If it was there chances are probably taken down by a village plot truck at least four times every winter So they went somewhere else Yeah, and you you know you folks when something goes to the public service department You have standing via the planning commission and the Village trustees. So that's how you would still participate in that process, right They go to them to go through the act 250 process The option is local and act 250. Okay, or public service Really unusual Next one It's For e4 Okay, this comment is about existing manufactured home park or subdivision Okay, so what are what am I saying here? Is this Yeah, so I think there is some logic and why this is is written this way Um, I can double check with the latest model Regulations, but for the most part the floodplain regulation definitions are a little bit. Um They're not 100 set in stone You certainly have authority to do some different things, but you don't really have much authority to do Different things because it's really pretty strictly um Follows the FEMA guidelines and the nfip regulations So I think it's probably okay, but I can I can just double check Um, well 20 just seems like a page or Our grab number changes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's from adding I mean 22 there's a there's something that's red and underlined Oh, yeah, sorry and actually on 18 also the reason why there's number changes is because it looks like there is a suggestion to Chelsea suggested that you add in the definition of FEMA, which seems like a fine idea. Absolutely. Yeah Okay, so sorry rather than you said page 2026 we have that a red section underlined It's just a definition of it soon Yeah, the gear from Chelsea and Jen then it has to be there Sorry High strength Jim we'll talk about this For the next meeting, but there's going to be a high strength waste ordinance Of as far as facilities so that needs to be in there. Okay. That's my thought Sounds good 14 Yeah, 14 sewage commercial was added there. That seems to make sense. Yep That dog's hungry From what's the tension the dog's objection to what we're doing? Yeah, don't talk about that dog's waste Secretary just makes sense and it's also Taking out a gender specific pronoun Which is a really fantastic idea to do every where So I'll put that on my parking lot list too. That might be an enormous undertaking that I will try Search and replace So then next one is 24 last sentence I'm sure it was under 25 24 Yes, it does Okay, so this is under the storm water section uh for best management practices And This is blue. So it looks like it's from chelsea Um, and I assume chelsea that all of this is just really following It's dead Yeah Has this ever been updated in Well, it says 2016 but I feel like the longer storm water changes and a lot has changed in at least 10 years. So Yeah, I really like number 10 Great Okay. Yeah, some of this was language suggested by um Really archer with uh vlct. I'm not sure if she's there anymore, but she did a uh pretty extensive review of the code and gave us suggestions Including definitions I think they're great development again. So we're still sort of talking under this Um storm water section here Any construction alteration or improvement less than 10,000 square feet impervious surface Jim's also got a comment here Oh page 26 Oh, yeah Page 26 numbers. Um, it's renumbered to 16 Sorry chelsea go ahead Well, I was just going to speak to this. Um um Well, my comment is so To give a little background as part of a state requirement. We had to develop a phosphorus control plan which um We have to reduce the amount of phosphorus into lake champlain the village Each community has to reduce the amount of phosphorus into lake champlain by 20 and you have a target They created a target number and it's by uh lake segment. So The village is parts of the main lake segment in the mall space segment And so as part of this phosphorus control plan that we have developed um Horsely win did a review of the land development code and came up with suggestions to help us Uh meet those targets that we're going to have to meet in the next 20 years and one was the idea of, um Regulating Uh perv a surface on a smaller scale because that that's how we can get some of these smaller storm water projects then that will still get us credit but um It will trigger the permit process and uh, we could potentially have a say and work with a landowner Um, or a potential developer Um, so that was a suggestion out of their document Also, the state's going to start, um regulating, uh, half It's right now. It's less than one acre in perv a service and they're going to go down to a half a acre of a perv Pervious service starting next july So It's just going to get smaller and smaller So this, uh, I think if I remember my my rough numbers correctly, um, half an acre is 20,000 square feet, right? Yeah, I think maybe that's what jim's referring to About a quarter acre or 10,000 square feet Yeah, that's what you said right here. Yeah. Yeah, so, um, So this is So this is a change just so folks are aware. This is going to be a little bit more restrictive than what the state is doing Right I'm just playing. I'm not saying that's good. That's bad or whatever. Just so you just so folks are aware Any comments Do the state have the final say of something that say doesn't It's kind of like in a gray area. Does it like go past us to like environmental board for a decision? Or does it stop with us and that's because it's in our like jurisdiction or something Well, it depends depends on the project. It depends where it's commercial or just But generally speaking, we have to meet our standards But they also have to make the state standards if they have to have three hurdles Yeah, for storm water, you're completely within your authority to regulate it to whatever extent you want to regulate it to And the state will do their own thing There are other things where you can't necessarily get ahead of what the state's doing. That's not the case with storm water And I think there's probably a pretty good argument because the village is subject to their own permits Like chelsea is suggesting For the phosphorus control plan and all that other stuff that you're the village is on the hook to really reduce phosphorus to the lake And so the you can look at that holistically and also make sure that's happening at an individual property level as things are changing all the better And also so this is with a redevelopment definition. So knowing that the village is already so developed We're only going to have the opportunities in redevelopment. So it's just having the ability to try to get our eyes on something and Work with someone if there is an opportunity in the soils present itself or whatnot, but it's just Giving us other options for storm water management So I might be a little denser, but I'm confused by this definition. So it says Isn't that all redevelopment or changes then if it's less intense, you know, except for those above 10,000 What about one that's 12,000? Is that not redevelopment? No, this definition is only Or this is specialized for storm water regulation then. Okay Yeah on previously developed land So if someone's going yeah going into Redevelop a site and they want to they're going to Well, let's see. I think Steve has a good question. No, it is confusing actually So five foot redevelopment that's redevelopment because it's less than 10,000 feet, but if I maybe it's not redevelopment Oh, maybe I flipped the words there Yeah, maybe it might be succeeding. I think it should be say exceeding 10,000 So if you have a quarter of an acre of a pervious surface or no, let's Yeah, that's where converting 10,002, right? So a quarter of an acre Pervious surface then that's considered a redevelopment For storm water, but if I do that's what that's what we're trying to get to okay Yeah, thank you for catching that so you understand the concept correctly So 23 Where it says shall I think it should be mean not meant To just tell you off the end of me Uh, sorry. Yep. Are you Robin? Uh, 23 First line. Yep Shall mean a tool Okay, the top of 27 first thing. Well, what's the comment on tmdl? Oh, yeah, okay that number what is now number 24 Uh, so jim is saying this definition applies to the sanitary sewer section Should it be more of a general definition? Um, my comment is that it seems like the right location to me Um, I don't know if you've got any insight on that. Chelsea. Why it would maybe make more sense as a general more generic definition Um So this is I don't really couldn't tmdl though also refer to like storm water. I don't I'm not a storm water person I don't know. Well, this is so it is referring to storm water. I thought they said discharge I don't know why he I can't think of what it would apply to Oh, well, I mean, it's like some of the to sanitary person. Yeah So well for some of I think he's right because yeah, if it applies to sanitary discharge to Not just storm water, then it's got to go somewhere that applies to both sections Do we have another definition section just for sewer stuff? Section F So this is total maximum daily limit, but there's also total maximum daily load. He might be There's a difference. Okay. I think there's a difference. So total maximum daily load would apply To wastewater I actually only ever refer to it as daily load, so I'm not sure why it says the limit We might need to check with Jim on that. I don't It's totally total maximum daily load. I've never That's like the social thing It shouldn't say limit fine Because the state establishes total maximum daily loads And that's what drives the impaired waterways They even googled it to make sure I'm remembering correctly and that's So it should say load instead of limit But yeah, I think we should check with Jim on that one because I can only think of it's like some of the our wastewater limits into the stream, but I don't see how that would apply to the land development code Folks have questions any other comments in here? Oh wait, there's another comment. Oh Yep, this is the whole gender issue And I think this is where I said I'll try Yeah, so did you do it did you 25 did you skip that on page 27? Yeah, I wanted to ask in the sentence in 25. Do we want it to end with ms4? ms4 municipality Yeah Do you need to spell out ms4 or do you mean? I mean I probably should just say by a municipality. Yeah, because the That's not the owner ms4 Yeah Which it would be a 26 is just revising the name to what the state now calls it since they have done an update All right There's three but I think this one was Very little Yeah So Public works superintendent Okay, so jim uh suggesting that add a similar definition for water quality superintendent and then she'll see I can't I just took a stab at it stab at adding language Yeah Okay, so anybody have any questions about what's added there at the bottom of page 30? Yeah, just second blue line To the extra jib village Yeah, there's an extra jay. Hey, I do this jay That's our new nickname. It's jimmy jay. It's not village jay Sorry to anybody watching out there once I edit it drops it turn the shared screen All right Yeah 35 One of the questions before we get into As a general part for this development review There's uh, one of the things that we deal with in Negotiations at school board level proposals In other words, it's it's a Conceptual, you know if we did this what and okay sort of a thing and we We've had two presentations. What do you guys think about this before I actually go farther with it? Which I would consider a supposal um In that it's a a pre-concept concept Supposal with a pre-concept concept Okay, so I'm floating in an idea. It's kind of like a business I'm floating in an idea and can I run this by okay before they run it by Come into the office and run it by ramen. So they they come here and So Actually, that's a great great way of putting together You know an idea. Would you guys even entertain this if I did this? Do we Want to put something in the code that says, um, you know, you're encouraged to come chat with us To run an idea before you I know you do. Okay, but I'm wondering should we codify that? Okay, or just go with a matter of practice I never see anything in front porch farm about You have a list of everything that they're doing but I'd say people come on in here and check it out And I put in your two cents worth of you changing the code or adding to the code So now if you were to say something about the code love that at the time I don't know if I've seen anything in front porch farm. They've said all the front porch for us Yeah, um, but I'm just saying that with you know in general applicability here, you know, would we want to Say that we're encouraging that activity to occur Okay, you know, please please if you've got an idea run it by us, you know, we'll do a supposable All right So as if to say like if I'm thinking about putting an accessory dwelling unit on my property come here first and say Hey, I'm thinking about this. What do you guys think? Right? Well, it can no matter what Well, they can but there's some other other things that That we had something come just last month the month before Yeah, what we I mean, this would be the time if we wanted to um actually Change that and say it's you know, there's an exception that To the roll, you know come come visit it it benefits them because they haven't hired an architect Presumably or like done a bunch of expensive work, right? But does it benefit us because we will end up Saying something or sending them down a path that then we're going to have they're going to come in with a real plan That's a good point. I think I don't codify it They went on tiner hands Well, I just thought I'd run it by I think it's a good idea. I just think what Steve said Okay, yeah I'm not very informal. It's not based on the code. It's just based on hey sounds like a good idea. It could change but Okay, so we'll just keep it as a matter of practice versus codifying it. Okay. Sorry to interrupt So I want to know we want to get our opinion what to do and I've mentioned the charging station So is there like a minimum size building or that they have just you know, I figure I have like so many units I thought at least one charging station I thought it was kind of a general rule now that new commercial buildings have to have a charging station So well, people are too keen on that because their cars are going on fire so We should So, um, if you go to act 250 You're subject to the stretch energy code and they require I don't remember if it's actually putting in the charging stations Or that you're equipping the building to be prepared for charging stations In commercial it might be that they actually require you to put in the charging stations, but you know like 10 lot subdivisions have to go to act 250 to and so those in a single family home. They might just say Put in the electrical system so that you can put one of those in the case comes about you have the infrastructure under the pavement already there Yeah Yeah, I I think I could be wrong about precisely how far they were big you have to take it but So uh, and I think you know, sorry audience for visitors. We're just talking You know broad brush stuff. We're not getting into the details the details the charge that happens when they actually come in For the preliminary Yeah When we'd be talking about, you know, like we told them no story not a storage facility Definitely big picture stuff But yeah, um, so when we get to it's page 34 here E it says that the that we're supposed to be meeting twice a month Shall My conversation last week, I think you better keep shall in. Okay. My point's always been You know people give up themselves when they volunteer And if we're not updating the municipal plan, we're not doing the land development code and we don't have any applications Do people really want to come in and have a precious night just to talk about talk Or do we want to say with, you know, Steve or Diane or Andrew or Patrick has a topic they want to talk about then. Yes, let's come in But I'm not sure it's that beneficial just to come in to come in But I think we should keep it a shell because I was told that we should be meeting twice a month Okay Well, I'm just This is theoretically we're imaginary We're canceling all these meetings that we don't have when we don't have anything somebody's canceling them First of all, so from now on we're going to come in and talk about something I guess I know remote is Maybe when there's no applications and we're not doing this whole Code or the land development code we could do the meetings remotely and that would take less of Pressure off people who are giving up themselves for the community They can still go home and have a dinner and be on a computer and talk about stuff, you know Doesn't take the evening away from you completely I think it's might be a nice way to do it actually Remember, Diane, we did the one for the time time commission It actually said we're pleasant with this It was all done remotely But this is our time to address that so I'm kind of going in case you would make It's I deal a lot with policy and practice sometimes it's Things need to be adjusted Well, I've been asked to make sure we meet twice a month every month Okay I guess so I guess there's a little make sure that we have something to talk about Oh, and now I can bring in that Dave Now I can bring in that book. I have for you guys that I didn't get to and this time kind of come back to me You had it I have I told you I had it Well, I've got a new one coming. It's called street fighting. It's about planners and Community development in New York. So anyway, it's that we should Okay, so bottom of page 35 is the first recommended edit Jim is suggesting so yet the ldc Gives staff seven days To act after a complete application After an application is deemed complete. Yes Um, he's suggesting that you move that to 10 days if statute allows My comment is just that statute actually gives you 30 days I think we should move to 30 because sometimes if somebody's on vacation or something's happening or somebody's busy It has to go around so many departments You can put a question That's exactly why he changed that because I think it's happened to him before. Yeah, I think we should make it 30 if that's what Statute permits. We should make it 30. It doesn't mean we're going to use it But it's belting braces. All right. So so he's going to say 30 right disease 30 We should change both of them okay 13 uh, actually at the top of Sorry 39 minutes I think I have to This special extension that goes from the bottom of page 35 to the top of page 36 I'll ask for 20 days We could delete this all together What do you folks want to do just give them 20 days instead of 10 We're up to 30 days Yeah, this information actually to remedy deficiency is not received within 10 days So we just delete it we are we get put at 30 you get 30 right done All right, so we're deleting all of the You don't need it No, that's a the second 10 down here is that that's 30 as well. That's 30. So they've 30 days to respond Yeah, I might help because because the gander right cool. Yeah, and then delete the special occasion, right? That's less than Yeah What you're already giving them. Mm-hmm Are we okay to go to 37? Yeah, okay I think that's fine Yeah, so Some of this stuff will come up When I do the state statute review But 60 days is an old day. You actually have to do that in 45 days 60 days is an old time If it has to be 45 it has to be 45 Fine to get to 39 39 9 on 39 Oh, it's interesting is the one these pages got sent they were numbered differently They went one two three four five in the Oh for each section. Yeah. Yeah each pdf Listed is as opposed to those computers are in charge That's super annoying. Sorry about that So I have to relook at my numbers because I went with what was there. Okay, so this is let me try and Give you some kind of reference point So at the top of this page it says approval of site plans And it's section F as in frank and then the edit is under Under sub part three D is in david and then Little roman numeral number nine Yeah, and so I think this edit from jim and chelsea is just also To include information about how they're going to mitigate their storm water So we could take the anod After sur And put it before storm water Storm water. Yep I don't remember if et cetera was clearly wasn't there. You don't have to include et cetera permission for et cetera Yeah, you could take that out. Yeah It looks like the very next page Under part e That seems to make sense Anybody have issue with that one? No Um, all right. Okay. So this is a You see the underline Yeah, I see clear delineation of roads. Of course, it's a phrase. It's not a sentence um Should it's part of e I think it's part of e I think it's actually a another letter I don't like because if it's if it's part of e it's got to be a complete sentence if it's not And it needs to be another letter if it's not Yeah, I think it's a new letter. Yeah Top 41 I'm not sure it reads the way you needed to read phosphorus loads generated on the site removal calculation for storm water infrastructure being utilizing Adronic What does that mean? Yeah, it's very that was a very technical statement. Um So back to our phosphorus control plan, we have to track all the phosphorus that Being generated in that and also or mitigated and so the goal is to reduce the amount of phosphorus from these sites um In the state has these calculators now so We're what we and we have to keep track of that right because we have targets to meet And so we need a mechanism in the land development code that will help us keep track and Have the developer the engineers that are developing these projects do that work and submit it for us to review And that can also play a factor as if we're we're going to accept infrastructure or not because Of how the some of the state requirements Are set up if you take over, uh infrastructure Um new infrastructure that then is added on to your target so for the village We have to The the amount of phosphorus being removed would need to be greater than what it's generating from the site Or if we're working with them and it's a redevelopment then we might be like we'll work with you and take over if you can add this storm water Project to your site that will help us remove phosphorus But that's a little bit of a segue, but basically i'm trying to we need those calculations as part of the application requirements We can make that assessment if t started with all It might make a bit more sense So yeah, we're trying to figure out how much phosphorus the project's generating how much it's removing and it would be best if it's in hydro CAD because I or no they use hydro CAD to to inform these load And removal calculations, so I think that's where it's getting a lot of using will they still be using that in five years time A hydro CAD has been around for around for a long time. I think so It doesn't have it's just it's just trying to say that you need to Use some sort of program And most typically it's hydro CAD to inform You how these storm water practices are going to influence phosphorus on the site Okay, both generating and removing. What if we start with all phosphorus loads and end with Utilizing hydro CAD Or approved similar or approved all you can say all storm water phosphorus storm water Because it's not necessarily clear that it's storm water, right storm water phosphorus loads I propose Phosphorus loads and removal calculations for storm water infrastructure must be provided with hydro CAD or approved similar Perfect. That's great. Good to me. I like that Good one Steve. Thanks Okay, I only got part of it. Yeah, didn't you get that Regina? It's recorded All right, I'll fix the P and then so phosphorus loads and removal calculations for storm water infrastructure Must be provided With hydro CAD or some or approved similar system program program. I'm sure Yeah Yes, that's thank you That's what I was trying to say But not saying it You can see both Jim and I tried to chop up that that So we were struggling Okay, sorry, I need to go backwards because we missed one and I'm not quite sure what to do with it. So Uh, it's sub part o Just on the page before My only issue with this is Uh, I don't think we necessarily want to assume That all of this is going to become public right or are we okay with that it's under site planning Can we just make it say something like um, I can work on it later, but if It's proposed as public infrastructure or Yeah, I think like that. I think that's what he was getting at Okay But I mean we're going to want to know where they are anyway, whether it's getting Yeah, we just with clear delineation of infrastructure to be reviewed as part of The application location of any proposed new water or sewer service connection with delineation with location Delineation I think with clear delineation of infrastructure to be reviewed as part of Any application you okay with that Chelsea? I think I have a typo here, but it's not in this section. Yeah Okay, sorry, what's next? I think it's 44 towards the bottom. Is it you? Oh, okay. Yeah, so I'm just letting you guys know for this section Um State statute has changed for 80 years, so I'll be taking a look at this to make sure Right. Um, it aligns. Flexibility applies to our apartment. Yes. Good. Yeah And Looks like Jim put in sewage capacity and I Think that's okay still in terms of state statute, but I'll I'll be taking a look at that whole section. Okay 49 Master plans. Oh, yeah Okay, so jim has a comment here on uh limited limit negative impacts And his comment is up here on the screen for folks We back up to section page 44 Sure I don't see anything about airbnb and accessory apartment area. Is that considered With like a temporary apartment or something or should we Cloudy of an issue that you put in here um, so Short term rentals is what airbnb would be seen as the rbo Generally speaking, I wouldn't recommend that you use your zoning regulations to regulate that um, because it's Uh, your zoning regulations are basically in place to say this many units can exist on this piece of property In some kind of configuration, right? It doesn't really get to the management of how Of how that of how the residential units are managed on that property Um, you certainly can regulate that if you want to as the trustees Uh, I would just recommend that it's done as an ordinance as opposed to the land development So But there might be I assume ultimately the housing committee will probably look at that stuff and we might have some recommendations coming from that so More to come Okay, uh, are we still on page 44? If you want to be okay, I would like to be this is in The section at the top of the page where it says signs allowed without permit Temporary signs pursuant section 714 should probably be um line I as I don't think it's part of motor vehicles Oh, I see what you're saying Keep going virginia keep going up Down or up? Down to near four After statement the line is this temporary signs pursuant six section 714 that should be an I I'd letter I for a category Okay, go see where it says four appeals. Yes, go to the line above that where it says temporary signs Yes, that should be parentheses I parentheses It should be oh, I see this is a whole different Yeah, separate paragraph section Yeah We may as well that one clarity. There's some other typos, but I'll I'll send you those Awesome, but that one that one's substantial Are you ready to go to 49? Yay Master plans jim's comments So chelsea, I don't know if you want to Um speak to this We had a conversation about this today. It's more like he was referring to the length. Um Because well, he gave a specific example there, but um The idea of some of these larger parcel areas That are being scooped up or already known to be larger parcels And then if they take 10 plus years to develop Those they you know, they subdivide them and develop the smaller parcels. They could skirt some of the Um Regulations that trigger master planning. I think especially when thinking about stormwater I think that's that's kind of what his thought was I would take out the word negative I'll just say as a means to limit impacts for yeah incremental planning because it may not always be negative. It's correct. Yeah There could be some positive stuff that happens. Yeah, hopefully If you do do a master plan Does that solve the comment or is there a bigger? I think it does The idea is to incur I think he wanted it to be encouraged a little more In some instances, okay, that makes sense. We've had two master plans for the link it in and uh site to site And the second one finally uh getting implemented And the master plan is kind of confusing the last paragraph where it says a formal approval of the master plan By the planning commission is not a guarantee That the development is forward will gain planning commission approval. That's right the contradictory itself That's not because they have to come in for each individual building So each each individual building has to have its own approval. Yes I have to say that here though general concept of master plan. So We have the initial plan the what do you call it the master plan master plan when you have the final approval and all the other things are like It was like three main street Andy had to come in after master plan That could get to some of what Jim was saying Okay, so does that move forward? I'm just thinking of Diane's idea of proposals. Yeah They come in and say here's our idea And then each individual Building would need to be approved. Yeah, that's right. We do. Yeah Yeah, because each time the building comes in it could it will can and will change With time because especially if it's over an extended period of time things do change and So even though this was the concept Past performance is not guaranteed future results Exactly. Yes. It's right there Here your jump shots not as good as it used to be Andy You put that in there past performance is not guaranteed future results. Let's leave that to the financial guys 51 E under three Okay, so This is And you're not using the same program as you did earlier. I I've you know, I just realized that I'm trying to If there's a difference between hydrocad and autocad What do you use Steve? I'm a geologist. We don't use I don't use cat at all the engineers do that You just break rocks. Yeah, exactly So it seems like they're a bit of an autocad. Yeah, I think it is that's what it is and They're both the related project. So autocad hydrocad is a subset of autocad So we uh and hydrocad has more specific related water Functions. Oh, we better send autocad in case something comes up with it. Yeah program them. I mean Autocad is fine because They're going to use hydrocad to do what they need to do and that probably that means it should probably be changed um Further earlier to say autocad should be that's more More general Okay Yeah, because they're going to have to use hydrocad in order to meet the stormwater management requirements. Anyways for today Okay, today's world Sorry, um Before we leave that, I don't I don't totally understand the rest of that time. So Are these three things that we're doing? So it's using autocad for input and output calculations Is that also for a phosphorus removal calculations and can the SPTP calculator be used for all three of those things? SPTP calculator cannot be used for all three of those So what if you calculate just phosphorus stormwater? Yes stormwater treatment. Yes It's it's a way of that Vermont has established tracking um So it it it's something that's on the website that they encourage engineers to design engineers to use So They're related They're just different tools that you could use and all those could could be accepted Or stormwater management. So my question is Using autocad for input and output calculation phosphorus removal calculations Are other approved So I mean Why are we telling them what to use? Yeah, I don't know Jim put that sentence about autocad It seems to me that if if we're going to say autocad, okay autocad can be used for input and output calculations period phosphorus removal calculations Can be used can be done with autocad or the std calculator. Is that what we're trying to say? To be honest, it's I don't really um It makes more sense just to say phosphorus removal calculation because you can use whatever tool you need to use to get that um General description proposed engineering techniques for stormwater management using autocad for input and output calculations and Phosphor removal calculations take everything else, right? Yeah, that's fine Sorry, I just got confused with the ores like throwing me off. I don't really understand what's connected to what I mean, you have a point that autocad, but I mean, that's really the only program you can use these days to do this work, so Yeah, what engineer is now? He's not okay. What are they you saying? Yeah, I don't know you have to be an engineer to figure this out. Anyway, what's the stp stands? That's true. I mean, I'm I'm not an engineer Standard something something All right stp stands for stormwater treatment practice Stormwater Which we did add that definition into the definition chapter Okay So we're on we added So, sorry, am I deleting everything after phosphorus removal calculation? Yeah, you're putting in and Yep, did that? Yes, that's what we're doing So 50 52 um Our code says that any street That's built in the village has to meet The code standards for the code In other words any street that's built Has to be available For adoption. I'm not sure whether we're putting in These things identify those streets and tend to be turned over to the municipality I'm not sure why that's there Because we're only looking to make sure this What's what's put in the plans meets code and if it meets code Then it could be adopted at a future date It's almost like we're encouraging people To give us the roads and I'm not sure we necessarily want them every time Yeah, that's how it reads how it comes off to me too and I don't We're not going to have my way to keep some roads private So it's not a burden to the village even though they've been built to municipal standards For instance, you know the um Village walk we only take it up to the pump station after that. It's private even it was built the village standards But but isn't the way I read it is that okay, we're identifying the ones We want to turn over the municipality and then we read that we're like, oh crap We don't want that one. No, no, no take that off So we so at that point because they're clearly marked what they think is going to who we have a chance to say no No, no, we don't want that Or is that is that even under our purview is that we decide we all right? Well shouldn't it say proposed not as opposed to intended yeah, yeah, I agree. We're getting a little bit of a hand of Ourself with yeah, it's proposed streets and see Yeah, I mean everything's proposed right but also I think it's clear to put it on them Which are they proposing that as a private road or are they proposing as a public road? It also relates to easements Which is a never-ending battle Yeah, or storm water right So that might be part of why But I agree that should say proposed because Might not want to take over a sewer. Well, we Are storm water, right? I prefer to be proposed both times where it says intended And I assume there's a whole section in here somewhere that describes the process of if it's going to be public and what you have to do and all that kind of Right, okay, so Middle of whatever page this is if you guys want to page number 53 underneath final plan Part e. I don't know if this should be a new sub part Yeah, uh So each one of those should be individual or is it a group of those three? should just be uh F Okay, so gis coordinated in supply three or all it are Part of f it doesn't really is anything to me Well, it's just It it does to some people It's how uh for gis data Yeah, I mean I I'd almost want to just say in accordance with the state data standard But because it changes But it looks like this is for shannon too. So I can check with her and see yeah, maybe do I would suggest that I mean jim asked for her to suggest what would make Her life easiest way back when but I don't know that she thought about how it should read in the code Just she just gave like the fact the fact Okay, you know The one thing we do need to recognize is that they're going to be people who Do not know what this technical stuff is and they're going to say wtf So Seriously because we're supposed to be writing this for the common person to for understanding. So if this is so adding some words that say these data standards or these data points or whatever on the list I have no problem with that, but they just kind of like throw them in here Um Yeah, and most of this just just so you folks know and we'll I can rewrite this so that's clear um The idea is when a final subdivision plat is submitted to the land records There's an actual digital version of that also be sent That could be updated in the town's records so that all your gis files show those new parcels And the same thing at the state level also So that's just it's just giving the details as to what that File should look like. Yeah. Can I just suggest something then? Yeah That's the case then like e I think each would say GS geospatial data shall be provided in Geo shape out and the next one coordinated dad data shall be provided in The next thing right um much better. I don't know. Yeah apply three values of state playing coordinates on the plans That's a that's a whole different thing That should be Yeah Was like long as a pretty each plat shall shall show three values of state playing coordinates Just so it reads So it reads Yes Because even if you don't understand it at least you get the gist of the sentence you're like, oh, okay This is a thing I don't understand. But this is how they need their data, right? Maybe at the bottom we should have a thing like all these abbreviations can be found on this page Because there's a lot of abbreviations here unless you know what those mean But really unless you're making a plat which you're not if you're not a surveyor You're not you don't need to know any of that stuff, right, but a surveyor surveyor. Oh, yeah, that's what I need to do Yeah, okay Next on the page we should stick in community before development department. Uh, where are you? Bottom of 53 seventh Just a community development department right so this is something I want to talk about because I spend a lot way too much time Chasing easements to do these storm modern projects and a lot and some of it's on our own infrastructure that um back before the land development code You know The village accepted infrastructure and then there was no follow-up By the developer to record these easements. So we technically have no right to go in and fix our own infrastructure um so And you'll see this a lot in chapter 7 too. We've we've added we we need to find a way to make it stronger and get it And hold the developer accountable if we're taking something over To give us the easements so we can maintain that in the future and have proper access If he doesn't give us the easements, then we don't take it over Not but I know we're playing catch up for things that haven't been in the past. Yeah Yeah, that's where some of these comments you'll be seeing or are stemming from Well, at least this is in English. Yeah Well, American English All right, I'm just looking at these I want to move to 54. Let's get to the top of the page Yeah, so the only thing I'm my comments here on this part is that um If it's going to be public infrastructure or you're taking it over in some way You're going to want these documents way earlier in the process. This is the very end of the process So you want these draft documents earlier for review? So I'm just going to leave those comments there because we'll we can find the place where yeah I like your third comment where you say accepting the infrastructure must be in the ground for two or three years Prior to acceptance. What do you think of that chosen? Yeah, I don't know if you guys do like that rather than rather than taking it with you know, when it hasn't even been in service I think that's um I yeah, but I don't know how that relates to easements because well, I guess um It depends because you want to summit storm water. I'm just thinking storm water world Some stuff you're going to want to start inspecting to see how it's behaving and And making sure it's working Um, so would you like her three years to to check that before the village adult? Oh Yeah, but that for her comment doesn't relate to easements doesn't it relates to any we may adopt so Yeah, typically any infrastructure Yeah public infrastructure, but you're right if it's sort of Yeah, that's it's interesting. I can think about it a little bit more, but yeah I think I want to talk that one over with jimmy get his thoughts I'm not opposed to it, but I want to consult with him Yeah, and sometimes yeah comes with is um The bill could hold a bond for the amount of money that that infrastructure the value of that infrastructure um and It's it can kind of work in in such a way that Uh, if the village takes it over and then within a two or three year time frame, which is too early for infrastructure to fail If it fails then you can make use of that money that you're holding in a bond to fix it And then if in the two to three year time frame period, it's all working fine that bond money is released back to the developer Right. Yeah, I like that. Okay. Yeah, but we could do that or not take it for two or three years And then he doesn't Yeah, he doesn't have to put up a bond. He can take the developer they They the developer can choose Whether he wants to have a bond or wait two to three years for us to adopt it Right, and there's usually legal documents that are almost like interim documents in place for that time period We're you're I think that's a good idea. Yeah Deed or warranty deeds aren't fully accepted. Okay Same comment on that warranty deed part. Um, yeah Okay, anything else in here Oh, yeah application requirements So that with number I just want to talk about number eight per second because I'm just I think it's just because I've been chasing so many Like Robert said from the past, but I don't know of a way, but it would be great to find a way to hold a developer Responsible to make sure those are actually ever recorded and into the land record because I find When I go down and planning and zoning and look at the as belts, they're on the plans But we know they're never recorded. So then therefore we it's not complete and we don't have access Um, well, we won't we won't adopt it if it's not recorded We're submitted Yeah, but so I mean we have examples of that already like on like tap street that You know That's one that's coming to mind So someone's got to take care of the storm water pond. Yeah, could it possibly be a um Condition of zoning permit that you wouldn't issue a co unless Yeah, it says here maintenance Obviously to be taken over by the village Shall be submitted and recorded within six months of the completion of the subdivision Or phase thereof to record it into the land record In order for the village to Accept The infrastructure And access record does that make any sense? Chelsea? Yeah, but I don't just it does make sense what you said, but it's still Not a guarantee You know I don't know but if they don't record We won't accept it. So it's never our problem. It's always going to be the problem of the Developer Well, and it's hard. Yes, I think for the storm water stuff because the village is a little bit on the hook, right? To maintain these things Yeah, we are private right Yeah, that's true. Like I almost want to see for them. I like the idea of the ceo in order to get ceo They need to prove that it's been recorded. Um fine by me Yeah, yeah, okay. So you bring us a copy of the recorded. Yeah fine by me and then we give you your ceo. Yeah, yeah Yeah, okay, and then we also need to have it within six months not with six months Yeah, I'll just make a note to myself to edit this for what we want to do and just make with within good good catch time That would that would make me feel better Well, there we go. There we go Should this also be added to the list of things that need to be submitted? Yes, please we have we have a list. Yes Really like that. Yeah, because then it's it's not surprised by page. Yeah page 55 would I mean just in the past like two months alone I've had to go after four easements just to do some stormwater projects And it's just slows everything down tremendously. Yeah, I should imagine And then it's extra attorney fees right for our village attorney to draft these right Not to belabor the point, but if they can't get their ceo Without the notice to without the notice the land record being recorded or whatever Then why do we need to care about how many months it is? I mean there's no one's gonna Ten months to be like, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna wait to get my ceo So why can't we just say easements for infrastructure access? to be taken over Shall be submitted as a condition of getting your ceo or something like that Done Yeah, well done this 55 application requirements I you know, what's a certified site technician? Is that in the definition? A good question. I think it is defined by the state, right? I don't know. I've never Yeah, I don't even know what that is I think it's just to engineers what they're trying to refer to Yeah, they're powered by an engineer. Well, should it be like everything else we do more or less, uh Certified to practice instead of remote Then they can pick whoever they want. Yeah, because I hope you're not requiring an engineer Oh, I see. Oh, this is just connecting. Yeah, I know it's totally two different things So if you get within one single family home, you need an engineer, right? Yes Just a home you can get a site technician Yeah, I don't know what a site technician is So I know when I get to documentation, it's from the right person. Yeah I mean, I know they have that for septic, but I don't know about Who is that person? Yeah, I don't know if it's just an engineering. What they're talking about registered engineers. So civil We don't want to cost too much, but we want to be done right. All right Who put this in? Well, I think this exists already. It's just yellow highlighted because jim has a comment. What is his comment? Okay, he's saying consider modification to include duplex units as previously defined and considered in the same realm of a single family home The cutoff seems to be a duplex units throughout the balance of the lvc That sounds like great idea to me I'm just reading applications for the connection of any use or structure other than one single family home Well, that includes duplexes, right? Duplex is more than one single family home Yeah applications for the connection of any use or structure other than one single family home Yeah, so he's suggesting this cutoff is Not a single family home. It's a duplex Does that make sense? So the duplex would fall into the definition of the first sentence. Yeah As opposed to multi-dwelling So you could have Whoever this person is lesser than an engineer could submit an application for a single family and a duplex Anything more than that would need an engineer Should probably figure out what that means. I don't know what a side technician. It's not even into It's not even in the definitions So then we'd have to go Change that to other than one One single family home or duplex Yeah, if we're shifting duplex to the the unknown certified side technician Yeah, that's easy enough. So getting the learning is easy enough because folks agree to change Anybody have an issue with it? Why why are we including duplexes? Uh, I think because we want to make it easier for uh more homes to happen Yeah That doesn't that seems counter to him to what Jim would do Yeah, really it does so I don't know about that one Instead of what he would do Yeah That one should be circled back to Jim Okay Yeah But yes, that's what it looks like at the moment in print. So that's our current verbiage Right. Yeah Going to D where it says staff should review all applications for completeness within three days of receipt I thought we'd up that considerably Okay, so this 30 days 30 days of receipt Approval activity is involving so this is connecting to the wastewater system I don't know when this typically happens Is it just with a zoning permit? If so, then we can make this 30 days. No problem, but Well any application so it would be On the planet mission Not working days Which director are the um, I'm at um You know, which director are the opinion and decision I don't know. This is really interesting. Is it actually a different permit or is it the zoning permit? It'd be the zoning permit Would somebody be connecting to the sewer without having a permit or without an application That would be considered a listed discharge Okay, well then yeah, they have a site technician Really hung up on the site technician There's no definition. I mean That's like we're plating this up now. This is good. Yeah Um, it looks like maybe I can look at chapter 11 to see if this is defined any better But if it if this is just a zoning permit, then it's the z a right um but if it's an actual Permit from public works, then it's Public works, right So if you have a garage you want to make a shop out of it, you know, put a toilet in there You could but you have to go to the village municipal water waste waters I also would think that should say water quality super attended Wait, what was the defection right? Yeah, should be both of them. Yeah, and we need to talk about F as well Okay, water quality super intended is who you think it should be Well, I mean, we're the ones that have the capacity at the wastewater facility, so The influence if you connect or not, right The amount Is that making sense to anybody? Yes, it makes sense to me Okay, you can't do it. You can't prove it and you gotta pay Yeah, so we could do it somewhere else so we can do it somewhere else. You ought to pay to play Yeah, yeah So, sorry Just quickly so in order to get to receive permission Is there any situation where you'd get permission to connect but not have to pay the offset fee? I'm sure that would be a very specialized situation, but So it should be and then For permission to connect to the surmoder village system and be eligible to pay the offset fee well, wait well, but no we want them to Infilt do an infiltration or similar practice in order to connect to our systems or they need to pay if they can't prove otherwise Why they can't do it. They need to pay us a fee Somewhere else because infiltrating surmoder is the only thing you're supposed to really do a surmoder these days In order to improve the lake Quality got it. I'm good Okay Well, this is it's two different things and Maybe it's bearer conversation because we do have to create some sort of fee in order to continue to Build stormwater projects or wait a funding mechanism, but this isn't meant to be the mainstream funding mechanism. It just be Yeah, yeah, no you're looking for a disincentive to not participate Correct. I think Jim and I can flush this out better for chapter seven But it's the idea it's not to fund all stormwater projects. It's just Yeah, like what was just said To deter them from doing anything other than strongly considering those practices that fit for low impact development in green stormwater Infrastructure those look like pretty minor edits on the rest of that page any issues This one I've been biologically 30 as well Yeah So that's moving the 30 And if we do this just the title line section 515 Approval of activities involved with disturbance of more than half an acre of land Yeah Yeah, sorry every time it says less than it should say more than Because in under a review requirement second line development disturbance of less than half an acre should be more than half an acre Yeah It's less than half an acre of impervious surface is what If you have a half an acre of impervious surface or more the state is going to start regulating it But this is just talking about land. It sounds like not the surface is Above is more than half acre and this is what you want folks to do if it's less than half acre Well, I'm just thinking it's been changed from less than One acre of land. So you've got the new requirement Okay, so we have a so section 514 is swisbee under half an acre and five 15 is more than an acre That we're missing what happens if I have three quarters of an acre It's up then I get a freebie Yeah, that's something it's Yeah, I think it should be more More than half an acre used to be less than an acre before And now we're changing it with a new regulation term So Yeah, it might have been changing the wrong spot. I think Okay Yeah, that should be half an acre there too right 515 you're in Okay, but It's End of saying everything's regulated correct and it's like less than less than It can't be less than that has to be more than half because if I'm going to disturb five feet square feet of my ground I'm not going to have to go through the permitting process. It has to be more. Yeah. Yeah I think that this was read wrong and we That was just it was read as like thinking of impervious surface, which is different, right then If you have a half acre of impervious surface You're going to have more than Half acre of land because otherwise your entire land is concrete or roof, right or payment But then it's confusing that there's a section 515 right, right Yeah, I think we're missing something here. Yeah, because it doesn't talk about impervious surface at all Right and we're in pervious surface only comes in at 515 This might have been added Well, I think That's where Jim's comment was we both were thinking that it was impervious surface But yeah, I don't know I'm confused now So and on 515 if I'm going to disturb more than acre or I'm creating more than acre of impervious surface I have to do all this stuff So then If I'm doing less than an acre I have to do all this stuff But the the fact that we have a less than acre in the first place doesn't seem to make any sense to me because There there's no bottom boundary on it. Yeah, it should be more than Yeah, so so between a half an acre and one acre you have to do all these things and above an acre You have to do all these extra things Yeah All right Section 515 the second half of that title should say more Or than one half acre of impervious surface. That's where it needs to be changed So it's Approval of activities above the disturbance of Of equal to or greater than one acre and or the creation more than one One half I'm not saying that half an acre of impervious surface Okay, so that makes sense to me Because the state is starting is going to start regulating A half of acre of impervious surface is starting next July But we want to match that understand what 514 is for yeah, I don't I can't answer that one So that really we don't need that half acre in there. Should we just continue? Yeah of less than One acre Well, I know less than one acre means two feet. Yeah, that's the thing Yeah, I wonder Chelsea, can you and Jim just think about what should sort of happen there It's yep. I wonder if section 515 should be edited 514 can actually be deleted altogether Yeah, combine the two of them into one. Okay Unless we really want to regulate something under a half acre Or as guidance Doesn't say anything about like a wetland or something if you're gonna do something that small That's further down already Well, actually we do because we have a lot of sixth of an acre of lots throughout the entire village Well, remember or we changed the definition or something about the half quarter of an acre I don't know what we're doing this to compare with the state wanted. So just put in what the state wants Yeah, but it's a half acre of impervious surface So that's different than a half a half acre of land Half acre disturbed Okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yes All right, okay Well, you and jim can come back with that. We'll sort it out and we'll report back. Okay 516 a looks fine to me We actually agreed with Regina's comment and we want to do whatever we don't want to create a regulation. So yeah And then 67d review procedures that we're going to put in 30 days there It's uh reviewed procedures d on page 67 where it's 10 days 30 days Then we can drop to the bottom of the page Uh standards for maintenance of the stream buffer zone prohibit the following one Looks good to me And that's it for chapter 5 and I'm really tired Glad I didn't get you all the chapters So what was jim's comment on the H1 Yeah, and yellow Sorry, I don't know why my screen sharing is not working. But so his comment is Update this to the date originally updated So each revision is not considered a new start date I don't either I'm not sure when we would Can can we just say the creation of new lawn areas within stream buffers is not permitted period Well, we've already said that farther up So I was actually going to say that the yellow section seemed redundant. Oh, so delete it all together. That sounds good Oh Because it says the following activities are not permitted with it in the repairing buffer the creation of new lawn So why would these standards for maintenance of the stream prohibits the following the creation of new lawn? right, I think repair right there's a difference between Preparing buffer and stream buffer. I think Technically, I think an either shouldn't be permitted. I think not permitted permitted and a story Yeah, yeah the creation or may or we could just put in the creation or maintenance of lawn Areas in buffer areas at the top right and that would cover the whole thing, right? So Should there like be like a conduct to this and like remedies for certain things like if you put a Bear lawn next to a stream back permitted, you will be fine X amount and have to put it back the way it was I mean, you know or they just settle it with the state the environmental court or what happens if they Violate this says don't do this and they do it anyway What do we do just If they don't then the state comes in and they can do it and it happens And it's good questions Now it should be like a list you do this you have to pay this and put it back for the rest So if you mess this up on purpose, guess what? This is the penalty because the state does make them come in and somebody put their lawn all the way down to the lake edge and the state came and said it Start over. They did. Yeah, you're right. They can plant this stuff again and that's pretty fine Yeah, are we going to see your puppy? The dog is Yes Why not why not She just ran out Camera shy. Yeah So, uh, do you know when you're reviewing the next chapters or you have you set a schedule? Chelsea, it sounds like September is going to be it. Yeah, okay two meetings in September Okay, we have dates on that So the first and third Thursday Yeah, we'll make sure we get it to you before the first meeting super Yeah, I'm just noticing that ccrpc had network problems happening at the same time. So maybe there was a Maybe it's a network problem. We're telling it. Are we telling it? Right now, I think we're yeah, yes, do I hear a motion to adjourn? What about this thing? I mean, I don't I don't want to go longer, but people have made the the public comments of uh, Trying to be more transparent with what's going on and I liked what Regina Ccrpc here put together. No, I'm really I think it's great I think we should do what we need to do to get it out there and see if any other comments come in Right And she wanted all right. I think I'm done. So I'm headed out. Thank you. Thanks. Chelsea. Bye. See you later Thanks Yeah, yeah, I like this is really good I say let's do it and let's get it out in front of our forum and our facebook page and see what public comments we get from it Right And the village website So that's there too Yeah, that's good Yeah, so there's any edits at all In the memo was hopefully a hyperlink that you could see this Yeah, bigger. Yeah, I clicked on the hyperlink and it opened up and it seemed to work Yeah, so this is a hard copy version if you want it Robin. Yes, please I'm so excited more maps for the map The online version is where people would put comments, but You know, the only other thought I had is that if we had something like The design review guidelines helped get from This to this And why it's like a helpful A helpful thing that you want expanded elsewhere like that might be a good example to somehow incorporate into this Otherwise, some people might just say Why more regulation? But I don't know I think most people say Why more buildings like the ones we just got? Yeah, it would be the most common Comments well the comments have been that they don't like the buildings that are up there right now. Yes. Yeah, absolutely So if if they Actually came to visit to speak with us Okay, and tell us more about what they would like to see versus not what they don't want to see Then perhaps that could be facilitated right Yeah, um, okay, so And don't forget the essence of the reporter even though they're electronic That's our theoretical local lose paper. Yeah Okey-dokey Okay, so this is it's probably not going to be right away, but because I think it makes sense a little bit not middle of august to get it out there, but um There's no End date either, you know, we can just get this stuff out there so people have it and comment for a while but Um, we'll probably wait a little bit just to get all the pieces in order Sounds good. So if anybody has any other ideas, definitely shoot them Over to me. Great. Thank you very much You're welcome Um with that I'll I'll make a motion to adjourn second All in favor Thank you very much