 I'm an advocate. I respect too much the people who I am now one of those people who have been attacked in any way. You do such a disservice when you lie about things like this. Today we're going to talk about Jesse Smollett and we're going to take a look at his first interview and this will give you a chance to see what he did, how we could have seen early on, why he was lying or the things that tell you that he's lying. Greg, tell us about the videos we're going to see. Yeah, this is the first video, the first interview that he did after the incident. Two days later, two brothers came out and said that he had staged the whole thing and Robin Roberts said she was apprehensive about doing the video and two days later she wished he hadn't. There you go. All right, ready? Yeah. Here we go. What happened that night, Jesse? When I landed in Chicago and Frank Gatson, who's like my uncle and he's also my creative director and he picked me up and then we got back to the apartment. There was no food and so I went out to Walgreens thinking that they were 24 hours and to have a smoke. Walgreens was closed so I called him up and I said hey I'm going to run to Subway which was across the street and I'm going to get a salad. Do you want anything? I went to the Subway and got the order during that time. I texted my manager thinking that he was still in Australia because he was on an Australian tour with one of his other clients and I said yo call me when you can. He called me immediately and while he was on the phone I heard as I was crossing the intersection I heard empire and I don't answer to empire or name ain't empire. Chase, what do you got? Let's just start with some linguistics here. He's using the word and 10 times which is an average of every five seconds during this 55 second clip. Second there is chronology here out of control and when somebody says what happened we typically start somewhere near the emotional event. When we hear chronological things that are not suggested specifically when I ask a question, take me from the beginning, what did you do when you landed and tell me from there. That should be a major red flag and one of the things that you can do which is kind of crude is ask the person to tell you the story from the end back to the beginning and we rehearse things no matter how many times just like when you've said the alphabet before no matter how many times you've rehearsed it 10, 20,000 you're going to have a hard time you're going to struggle saying it in reverse. So doing something even if it's kind of covert to get them to start telling it in reverse is the best way to catch that kind of lie. But I want you to do something that's going to come up later in this video. I want you to watch his face when he says the word salad. Right when he says the word salad, I want you to watch the facial expression. I want you to think he is feeling smart and he's kind of feeling cool for choosing a salad and this is going to come up later and it's probably going to be a little bit scary. But another thing that we're seeing here is I heard, I saw, I heard this kind of showing versus telling thing that he's doing which we tend to hear when children tell stories like if a third grader is trying to lie about stealing cookies or a child is I heard, I saw and that's going to see a lot of that. But the second time we hear I heard the blink rate goes up into the high seventies and he does his best to kind of fake this confused facial expression. Now I think he's laughing because there's no emotion involved with the recall. So if there was a scared emotion or fearful emotion, it's not there and it didn't happen. And he's chewing on these lips most likely in body language and behavior profiling that denotes or suggests that there's some need for reassurance or some uncertainty there or this hesitation is probably due to a lack of affect from the interviewer. So he's looking for some kind of affect, some kind of reflection that he and that she understands. And I think one of these things when he's talking about and to go have a smoke, he's kind of asking, isn't that cute? Don't you think that's kind of cute that I did that? And you see that facial expression there. So remember that facial expression because we're going to see that later during a time when it really shouldn't be cute at all. Scott, anything? All right. Yeah. A lot of times I did like four videos on this when it first came out on somewhere else. So I'm going to pull a mark and sort of focus on the story from the dramatic part of it. I'll be doing mark today with no British accent. So at the beginning of this, he's setting this up to be a play, the structure of a play or a story. So he's given every person their personality in the background as we go through. There's too way too much detail before he gets to what happened. If somebody came in and robbed you or beat you up or jumped you, you don't start off with, well, here's what happened. I came in that night on the plane because my manager this thing. You say, man, I was going into my house or I was coming out and these guys jumped on me. These two big guys. And I started crying and there was a fight and you tell exactly what happened. You don't lead up with all this information. But then the part where he says, there's no food. That's where he's making sure he's, as he sets up his story, he has to make sure that we know or that she knows there was no food and that's why he's got to go out. So it's two o'clock in the morning and he's got to set up a reason for going outside. So there was no food in the house. And that's the first part of it in his little, in his little play here. Then he locks eyes with her to make sure that she's listening and make sure she gets all these details as he goes through. He laughs and you're right, Chase, about the part about where he's laughing about having a smoke. He's trying to be all cute with that. Like, I shouldn't be doing that. I know I shouldn't. So let's connect there. He's trying to connect with her at that point because I think maybe he got some, some, a little bit of, not hostile, but I think she was a little bit off-putting with him because I think she knew out of the gate. This was not going to go the way he was hoping it would go. So we're looking at good versus evil here. Now, what else? I guess that's, you know, I could keep going. Okay, I'll wheel in. He's got everybody at this point. He's setting everybody up in their places. He's got the manager because he's going to come back to him about the phone. You're going to see that in a little while. He's got these guys there. They're going to be hollering at him in a minute and saying all this rude stuff. He's giving everybody their, their own personality and their own backstory for this little play. When he says, I heard, we seem biting on, say, I heard because, and that's an adapter there because what's happened is he's like, well, here I go, man, I'm going in. This is it. Here we go. So he's firing himself up to go in. So he's a little bit nervous about that because this is where he's going to start hard core line right to her face. So let's pay attention to his illustrators. You know, the illustrators, when you, you talk at your brain, emphasize, emphasizing specific words or phrases. So let's pay attention to that because those come and go and we'll notice when they're there and when they're not there and what he does. Then he laughs about being called empire. Now, when you're around people, when you're around celebrities and somebody says something about if they see you on some show, for example, somebody like that, he should know that you don't, you don't say, I don't go by empire and ignore them. They know exactly what they're talking about. They don't know his name, but they recognize him when that would happen. So that's part of his thing too. Another thing they recognize me. So that's part of the story there. I'll end it there and go to Mark. What do you got? Yeah. So, well, not a lot other than to agree with everything that you've both said so far, but let me let me read out some other stuff other than the ands their chase. And I haven't got all of this, but I've got most of it, I think, when and like and and then and so then laughter, sniff. So and during that time and as well, already straight out of the gate, just because of that that stuff around the detail, I'm already not in a good mood about this. Then let's go into what the detail is that he's giving. Well, uncle's creative directors. And I agree, Scott, he's setting up these characters and the geography around this so we can go to it later on. So he doesn't have to backtrack and go. So hang on. So why was the phone? Why were we on the foot? Why were you at the house? I don't get it. He's he's he's seeing us off at the pass around this so he doesn't have to go back, but it doesn't make sense. And he's having to fill in between. So we got uncle creative director, salads, no food, Walgreens, Subway, Australia's involved as well. I mean, just all kinds of stuff in there. It's details, details, details. And we're going to find out later on, he's devoid of a whole bunch of details for somebody who is so detailed up front. Later on in this, it's like, where's all your detail now? Why is it suddenly disappeared? We've got that lip retraction. We'll see a lot of top lip retraction. We'll see that bite to the side and bite to the front as well. That's going to show up. Regardless of what that is about, lip retraction is always, you know, something of concern. So so concerned about something anxiety about something there. But what I want to focus on very quickly here is later on in this, I feel he's actually going to be quite a good actor. You know, there's going to be a later point here where where I'm going to go, that's some really good acting. We've got a good actor here up front. He's showing the traits of terrible acting, terrible acting, because what a great actor does, it goes straight to the emotional heart of the moment, straight to the drama. They launch into the drama. Number one, what it means is, is suddenly it becomes very, very entertaining for a start. But also your audience kind of want it to stop because because they'll get such a lot of empathy so quickly that they're like, okay, can we move out of this drama into into something calmer? So it'd be much better for him to hit the emotional core of this story in the pain. And then the interviewer might go, okay, well, let's not press this one any further. Here's what he does. He does what a bad actor always does, which avoids the drama, tries to move around it because they don't want to show themselves up as not being able to reproduce it really well, or actually that they find it too painful themselves to kind of reproduce it and they want to avoid it that way. Bad acting up front, terrible storytelling in many ways up front, other than what you say that's gotten that he's laying out, you know, his pieces quite well. So I'm very much concerned moment one from from this one. Greg, what are your thoughts? Yeah, we're all on the same page, the and and and and then jumped off the plate at me very early. There's an interesting thing. I always say the truth needs no support. But live sure as hell, love a crutch. And this guy's got all kinds of crutches in this one. As you listen to it, he does a solid one minute distancing from the question. She comes right out of the gate by saying, tell me what happened. And he even steps on her a little bit as she finishes, like he's got something to say and then says absolutely nothing with regards to content in this first minute. He does some iterative storytelling with long vowels. Remember, we heard this with Eileen Warnows around friends, in this case, food. He's asking for her to push back and give an opportunity. And when she says what happened that night, she's open with him. She has her chin up. We're going to see her body language change throughout this video, but she starts off very open with him. And then he does this whole thing to say he starts wrapping himself. I think these characters are more than geography. He's wrapping himself in associates. Because if I'm traveling with the Pope, the Dalai Lama, and another good person, I couldn't have done anything wrong. That's a really good technique for people who are trying to get credibility. I call it credibility by association. So all these good people are on my side. And then he goes out and he starts talking a little bit and she's starting to close her eyes a little bit and pay attention to him late. I'm not sure this sounds exactly right. He's rolling on and on. Then he tried that snicker around having the smoke and he does hard eye contact when he does just to see if she's connecting. She doesn't. Then he tries again at salad. He does a little smirk. He goes to that down internal voice that over to the left when he starts to say I was on the phone. I dot dot dot. There's a pause. That pause means he's editing and adding something. All this stuff to me. All these are props to his storytelling and he still hasn't given an answer at one minute in. Then finally he says my name ain't empire. That's another cutesy. He tries to connect and he does look when I was 14. I got my nose broke by being mugged. A guy hit me in the face with a coke bottle. That's what I remember most about that whole incident. I don't remember. Hey, I was talking to my friend and we were talking about this or I remember the impact and I remember like, you know, I was going to stand up for myself and got my ass whipped is what I remember. That's the way it goes. People don't. All that stuff goes out the window and this really happens. This is unbelievable in the beginning to me. But there we go. What happened that night, Chessie? When I landed in Chicago and Frank Gatson, who's like my uncle and he's also my creative director and he picked me up. And then we got back to the apartment. There was no food. And so I went out to Walgreens thinking that they were 24 hours and to have a smoke. Walgreens was closed. So I called him up and I said, hey, I'm going to run to Subway, which was across the street and I'm going to get a salad. Do you want anything? I went to the subway and got the order during that time. I texted my manager thinking that he was still in Australia because he was on an Australian tour with one of his other clients. And I say, yo, call me when you can. He called me immediately. And while he was on the phone, I heard as I was crossing the intersection, I heard empire. And I don't answer to empire. My name ain't empire. Yeah, chase your dog Pete on the tree. And I didn't answer. I kept walking and then I heard empire. So I turned around and I said, what did you just say to me? And I see the attacker masked. And he said, this MAGA country punches me right in the face. So I punched his ass back. And then we started tussling. You know, it was very icy. And we ended up tussling by the stairs. Fighting, fighting, fighting. There was a second person involved who was kicking me in my back. And then it just stopped. And they ran off. And I saw where they ran. And the phone was in my pocket, but it had fallen out. And it was sitting there. And my manager was still on the phone. So I picked up the phone and I said, Brandon, and he's like, what's going on? And I said, I was just jumped. And then I looked down and I see that there's a rope around my neck, which I hadn't noticed it before because it was so fast. You know what I'm saying? It was so fast. All right, Mark, what do you get? Yeah. Okay, look, there's so much. There's so much. So all of us could talk for an hour just on that piece there. Let me just hit a few points. Tussling, tussling. That feels like minimization to me. So I'm already concerned about that tussling, tussling, fighting, fighting, fighting. All right, here's a, here's a chance for the detail. Yeah, it isn't just when you get attacked, it isn't just fighting, fighting, fighting. There's detail that you are going to remember. And it might not be the detail that your audience expect, but there will be detail that will go, wow, you remember that thing about it. That's amazing, but you don't tend to put it in a bucket of tussling, tussling, fighting, fighting, fighting. And then details that don't matter by the stairs, by the stairs. What does that matter? We don't, it doesn't matter. The location doesn't matter. You know, we've got a, going to set Peach off now. We're going to set Peach off. So those things don't matter. We have no, we have looks for approval, but we don't have any looks of aggression or anger. So for me, that, that's, I would want to see, I would expect there's going to be fear, aggression, anger, coming back as he replays that story. We don't see any of those writ large or, or micro. So I'm concerned about that, but we do get looks of approval around this. He talks about the, the attacker. Well, why not the attackers? We now know he's already, he already finds out that there's two. So it's like, it seems to be making this stuff up as he goes along. And then we've got a big lip retraction at the end there. Then it just stopped. Then it just stopped. Number one, I don't believe that idea. And then even more, the lip retraction for me says that there's something up with that there. Chase, what do you got on this one? Yeah, I agree with you. I think in the first 10 seconds, here's, here's what I got. And then I heard so I and, and, and I see. That's just the first 10 seconds. And then he accidentally switches to present tense language during the middle of this story, which is very, very bad. And then right to Scott's thing that you always hear from Scott, there's some fading facts when he says the word attacker. I'll let you talk about what that means. And there's some hesitation at the word masked, which I think is another red flag. But here's the biggest thing that I saw here. He's accidentally telling the story from the attackers POV. He shows anger on a space when he's talking about what they were yelling at him. More anger when he's saying this thing about MAGA country, this loud and aggressive voice when he's saying empire really loud. And he's moving his own hand to illustrate punching instead of being punched in the face. So he's telling a story that he wrote to us. He's just in the wrong POV, which is a mistake of a lot of amateur writers and storytellers is not telling it from the right POV. And he's saying, I knew we started tussling and this three times fighting and the second person showing up. The second person was already there. And then it was and, and, and so then, then this, this is what fake sounds like. If you ask a kid to tell a lie or tell a random story, make it up on the spot. This is what you're going to hear. And this is what you're going to see. He forgot to craft how real events end when he says this just ended. So this is how a fake story ends. This is how kids end a fake story. And then it was over. And that was it. That was the end. And what's funny to me, or interesting, I should say, not funny, but interesting is that he's amused. He's pleased with himself for telling this. And he thinks he did a good job. You can see it on his face right there at the end with the facial expression. But here is a quick compilation of the entire clip. I'll do it very quickly here. And I saw and I said, Brandon, and he's like, and I said, and then I looked down and I see, whoops, switched to the present tense again on accident. Overall score on the behavioral table of elements is a 27, which is extremely high when 11 indicates a possible deception. And that's all I got. Mark, what do you think? No, I'm done. But I think he's good. I think he's I think he was excellent. Greg, what do you think? Thanks for checking in with me, Greg. Yeah. So his blink rate is up when he's not making eye contact. Pay attention to that. When he makes eye contact, he goes to that romance or stare to make sure what you're saying. He's looking to see if he's getting approval. And I'm going to use his word. She ain't buying it. You can see it. She has barriers. She's at distance. Her eyes are closing. She's nodding as he talks to fish out his story. Really good, really good interview technique. And I'm going to talk about her because it's very clear here that she's suspicious at times. He's looking for shock when he uses racial slurs and that he doesn't get it. He does get her response where she's like, what, you know, but he doesn't get what he expected. He's fishing for shock with those words. He's navigating perfect details of a story he's prepared in his mind. This is a good example of just being a good actor doesn't make you a good script writer and why a good script is important to a good actor. Mark, you can talk to that better than any of us. But if you think you're a great script writer and you go in and write the story in a way that is shallow and superficial and has no depth, that's what's going to happen. What's interesting to me is his head retreats when he uses those words, all the racial slurs and that and the derogatory terms, his head retreats. That made me go wonder why I did that. He doesn't do it anywhere else. Then when he's talking about tussling and tussling and tussling by the stairs, his lips purse almost in disapproval at what he said. I'm not sure what's going on there, but he clearly knows. I don't know where he came up with the word tussle, tussle, tussle. And then he's fighting, fighting, fighting and a second person involved. Well, people who are beating you up aren't involved. They're beating you up. That's how it works. They're kicking me in the back. Well, the second person started kicking me in the back. Not the second person involved. There's a distancing and a passive voice was kicking me in the back. Then he goes to an internal voice. He looks at her and her face shows she's not buying this. She's kind of like, what? Give me a second. I'm not sure I believe that. Then she actually shows a little bit of shock and disbelief. And then you can see there's something in her face that makes me think either she's got some disgust starting, some kind of disdain, but her face changes shapes entirely right there at the end, like she doesn't believe what he's saying. This thing's edited. We can't miss that. There's edits that you'll see going through here. But I'm starting to see her going, I'm not sure I believe that when he's talking this way. We all know that you would feel emotion. If somebody were yelling something at me, I would feel emotion and I would show that emotion. I wouldn't talk about tussling when somebody's beating you up. Now, when I told you something happened to me at 14, I'm still a little irritated about that because I got a broken nose out of it that I'd have surgery for later. This guy, this is supposedly right after it happened and we're going to hear some really intricate details. But all those ends to stitch the story together sounds like twice a night before Christmas. You know, it's all strung together to make it play. So that's my Christmas ad to your Christmas tree. Scott, what do you got? All right. Well, when he ran out of the gate on this one, he comes in with two words you don't say and he says them. I don't care who you are. It's not good to say. And so he knows once he's done that, and I think the reason his head's going back like that because he's like, I can't believe I'm doing this because when he lets those go, he's in at this point. There's no, no going back this point because these guys said this. Then he says, he talks about the guy hitting him. He says, so I hit him. I hit him back. Have you seen a picture of these guys? If one of these guys hit you and you're him or me, no, that's good. That's all it's going to happen. That's all it's going to be. Your story is going to be, I got knocked out. I don't know what happened. Your wallet's going to be gone or whatever. That's all it's going to be. There's not going to be any fighting, fighting, fighting. When he says fighting, fighting, fighting, he's trying to stretch it out that he's buying time. He's creating a verbal bridge as Joan of Arles says to create time to make it look like there's a lot of things going on in there. When he says tussle, the reason you don't hear tussle Greg is because it's not 1936 and nobody talks that way. Nobody. You've never heard that word out in the wild ever. Occasionally a tussle. I don't know. Yeah, I'll bet you do. Then when he says it just stopped, Mark called it. It doesn't just stop. Somebody wins and then they kick you one more time to make sure they won and then you say something horrible to them. Then you walk off. For example, sometimes they begin that way. One time when I was in high school, we'd go hang around behind this church called at Woodland. There were five or six of us there and I was sitting on the hood of this car acting all like it was cool. These guys from Clinton, because we were in Oak Ridge and they drove over from Clinton, the other football team. I didn't play football, but all my friends did. This car pulls up and these guys get out and the sky starts walking toward me and of course somebody starts fighting. I said something really graphic about his mother and he hit me one time and it knocked me on the back of the thing and I pretend I was knocked out. I wouldn't have to do anything else because these guys would have killed you. They're huge. We were like juniors and these guys were seniors or in college or something. I'd never seen them before. They were big. When it's over, that's it. It's not just a surprise. Something's happened and it's over. You give up and they keep hitting you and then you're done. Again, these guys, they're too big for him. If there were two of them, it wouldn't have been fighting. There would have been running, running, running. There would have been fighting, fighting, fighting in that case. You see he's turdling. He's getting everything all shut down. He's not moving much at all as he's talking and he's looking right in the eyes. He's got the big leaf going, the whole thing and he's starting to dull on him that she's not believing him because if you look at her, she's like, no, she's trying to be engaged because she's there to do a job and she's trying to be, hey, this is the way it is, man. I'm here trying to get information from you, but you can't hide those things. She's starting to look like, I don't know about this. I think he's starting to catch some of that. He's trying to connect even harder. Then he starts talking about the phone again. He goes back and relives the part about the phone in his little play here. He goes through and how it was on the ground. He had to talk to his manager and all that. It's just way too many details and he's making himself. At the beginning of this, I told him I was going to pull a mark on this. This is where it's like Macbeth. Shakespeare had this play called Macbeth. At the beginning of it, Macbeth is this guy everybody likes and he's supposed to be a pretty cool guy, but as it goes along, he ends up being a real dink at the end of it. That's what's happened here. We're seeing him go from the really cool guy. He's an actor. He's on TV, man, and everything going for everything. Now he's ruining it for himself by doing this in Macbeth. It's something different, but in this case, we're seeing it now. We're starting to see him crumble in his play and Kafka said, well, we'll get into Kafka later. Every man must necessarily be the hero of his own story. So that's another part of it. He's trying to be the hero of his own story, trying to be the tough guy. So I hit his ass back. No, he didn't hit anybody back. He can't do that. I know I'm getting animated about that, but I know these guys when I see him being one that wouldn't be able to get up and be a tough guy. I can't buy it. I'm not in. So Scott has now added to the lexicon of fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and added fake unconsciousness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And I didn't answer. I kept walking and then I heard empire. So I turned around and I said, what did you just say to me? I mean, I see the attacker masked and he said this MAGA country punches me right in the face. So I punched his ass back and then we started tussling. You know, it was very icy and we ended up tussling by the stairs fighting, fighting, fighting. There was a second person involved who was kicking me in my back and then it just stopped. And they ran off and I saw where they ran and the phone was in my pocket, but it had fallen out and it was sitting there and my manager was still on the phone. So I picked up the phone and I said Brandon and he's like, what's going on? And I said, I was just jumped and I then I looked down and I see that there's a rope around my neck, which I hadn't noticed it before because it was so fast. You know what I'm saying? It was so fast. There. And then we're going to go ahead. How long did this all take? It felt like minutes, but it probably was like 30 seconds, honestly. I can't tell you honestly. I noticed the rope around my neck and I started screaming and I said there's a rope around my neck. Did you get any kind of description of the attack? I gave a body description and I, you know, because I saw this but and you know, right here or whatever, but I didn't see. I can't tell you what color their eyes were. I can't tell you and I did not see anything except the second person I saw running away and the first person. Yeah, I saw saw his stature. I gave the description as best as I could. You have to understand also that it's Chicago in winter. People can wear ski masks and nobody's going to question that. All right, Greg, what do you got? So he has some control release things going in here. And if you pay attention, you'll notice them because he'll sniff kind of like Trump did counting coup when he hits one of us. And he's gotten a lot of these little tools that he can use as he goes through. She starts off looking closed up. She's like, how long does this all take? And look at that dismissive illustrator or regulator like, what the hell? You know, our hands are going like this. When you're thinking about they say, how long does this take? This looks like it's a little dismissive to me. Then he says, honestly, honestly, I can't tell you. Well, of course he can't. He drops back into that internal voice. And then his blink rate goes up again when he's not making eye contact. At 10 seconds, if you go back and look, he's got this lip compression that hits immediately after honestly. He does that. And you can't miss it if you go back and look at 10 seconds. And then he says, she does kind of I'm here to help. She's trying to dig information out of him with regulators. And then when he gets to a point where he's saying something that really doesn't fit, you can see her holding her hands up, whether that's intentional or whether that's just her brain going, hold on, man, hold on. You're digging to your points, Scott. You're digging deeper and deeper. How about coming up for air for a second? And then he goes, this is whatever he uses of term, whatever, as best I could. He sniffs. Those are words he's prepared. Those are things that in his head, whether they're part of the story or not, there are ways for him to disclaim. Then he says, and all this stuff is disclaimers, the same way we'd say, well, to the best of my knowledge, or the best I can remember, the same thing. He's using all these as best I could. And then his head drops forward and down. And then he goes into another one of these iterative storytelling pieces he's prepared. It is Chicago in winter. So people can wear a ski mask without being tested. All this is storytelling. It's all just clusters. And he's just building on what he started with. He had a fractured story to start with. It was poor. And now he's just using all these things that he's thought up. I'll guarantee you sitting around thinking up the story, you're saying, well, it was winter. There was a ski mask. Oh, that's the best I could possibly do. And then the honesty stuff is just his brain leaking. That's all I got there. Chase, what do you got? Yeah. When he says, I can't tell you honestly, I think he forgets that honest people are very comfortable with saying, I don't know. And I'm not sure. Very comfortable. And we interview people for a living. We're not just people that exist on the internet. And that just we're born when this channel was created. We've been doing this for a very long time. And we talk to people for a living. Truthful people use these phrases like, I don't know. And I'm not sure all the time. And they use them with confidence. And they use them with comfort. So then we're also seeing some more storytelling here. We're seeing, I noticed and I started screaming and I said, I did not see anything except the second person I saw running away. It's all very basic storytelling elements. I saw I experienced. So in writing class, when they teach you how to write fiction, if you're if you have a good coach, don't delete all of that stuff. She noticed that she wasn't alone in the room that gets deleted. She wasn't alone in the room. He felt hot. And that that goes away. He was hot. Not the feeling of it, not the notice, not to become aware to realize all that stuff goes away. And finally here, Greg, I was checking boxes as you were talking, you've got a lot of my stuff here. But a lot of the same stuff I got. I love that he is not aware that he's helping the attackers explain why they were wearing masks for the sake of his own narrative. I think that's amazing. Truly amazing. Mark, I'll call on you for real. I want to add back to one of the things you said. The cool thing is, you don't need to write a story. The story is believable because it wrote itself if it really happened. So you don't have to think of all that. Yes, that he's having to put in here. It's sorry. True. Yeah. Look, I think there's some hiding time in there. I think there's an embedded confession there. Honestly, I can't tell you honestly. So for me, it's like, and I'm with you, Chase, like anybody who's telling the truth will be fine to say exactly. I can't tell you exactly. You know, that would be okay. Also, he explains that that time sped up during this. What I've noticed about people who tell stories where they've gone high in adrenaline and into fight and flight is time goes in the opposite direction. It slows down. Yeah. As you become so much more perceptive of some of the small things that are happening, which is why in those stories of fight and flight, there's this tiny details in there that people notice about stuff. For me, this is going in the opposite direction or people black out or they dissociate completely. They're like, I just disappeared. I was floating above the situation. All kinds of other things in my experience tend to happen and not time speeding up to like, I just don't know what what occurred. Okay. So that's that's a bit of a problem for me. And he does another of those lip retractions again. No fear, no anger, certainly no fear or anger when he's should be living the situation and explaining the story from his point of view. I don't see any large demonstration or micro demonstration of feelings of fear, anger, surprise, any of the things that you might have. So I'm worried about that. I can't tell you the color of their eyes. Well, that's okay. We don't really need to know that. Like any other, like some bigger stuff would actually probably be more helpful than the color of their eyes. And, and we know that that he says, I think later on that he that he gave a description of them. So just, it's okay, just give us the description that you do remember. Don't avoid what did they look like by going, yeah, color of the eyes, I can't, sorry, I can't give you, that's just avoidance. Oh, yeah, as best I could, he has that sniff. So yeah, I'm unsure, Greg, whether that's, as you say, it could be him scoring a point there as best I could look, I'm doing my best. Or maybe there's some stress around that maybe a bit of both. Then he hits for me a classic print, Prince Andrew, Andrew, the whole thing of, of Chicago, is he says, you have to remember. Well, that is Prince Andrews. Well, of course, in the Navy, well, you have to remember in Chicago. And it's like, we might not understand Chicago. And we might go, Oh, well, yeah, sorry, I didn't understand that. If it's cold in Chicago, of course, they'd already be masked up. Of course, people who by chance are going to see you, by chance are going to see you. And then by, by seeing you are going to do racial slurs and then form an attack on you. It's now reasonable that they would be masked up and you wouldn't be able to see their, their face. I think it's possible. But what he's trying to do is make it very, very reasonable that that would happen. And I don't buy it on possibility, but I don't buy it on reasonable that that would be the case. Then for me, we get a, either a bitter taste in his mouth, or potentially Dupers delight. I don't know which one it is, either way that asymmetry in the upturn in the mouth isn't good. I'm not sure which one it could be, but it isn't good, most likely more likely a bitter taste, I think. And I'm the same as everybody else here. The interviewer is not nodding along. She is not showing emotional empathy for him. She is not buying this right now. And she's in the room with him. And we would expect if this was a viable story, that she would be effect, there's all kinds of good reasons why she would be affected by this, why she would be on his side. And she is not buying it at all, I would say. And that, and that alone is the bad smell test. If you've got somebody in the room who isn't buying it, who should buy it, based on just the emotional empathy of being in the same room as a real story, and she's not taking part in this, that's a, that's a bad situation. Scott, what do you got on this one? Yeah. Well, he doubles down here because he goes to, well, I'll tell you about that in a second. When he comes in, he starts saying he doesn't know how, he can't honestly tell her, you guys are all right. He can't because he's lying. That's why he can't be honest about it because it didn't happen. And then he came in strong, man, with those, the two worst words you can say right now in the United States or the world, he used those two words. And not only did he do that, he doubles down by bringing in a rope. He says, I noticed a rope around my neck. Now, and then you see, he started hollering. There was a rope. No, the first thing he would have done is take that rope off his neck. That's, that's number one, because you know what's going on there. If you notice that that's happened, first thing you're going to do is take it off because they might come back. Here's what I'm wondering. If he's, if he just haphazardly ends up going outside at two o'clock in the morning, how did these guys happen to have a noose on them as they're out walking around the streets of Chicago at 40 below at two o'clock, two thirty in the morning? Just by chance, he's out there and they recognize him. That's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. And I'm sure at some point in the interrogation, somebody or the questioning, they said, dude, you got to be kidding me. This didn't happen. His manager should have said, no, don't, don't say that already said it. Well, that's too bad. Not only does it double, he doubles down here. He does it again in a little while, which we'll go over. And that's what you got. I can't believe it. He hits everything and goes deep. That's why he can't turn back and say, well, okay, I was lying about that. And I'm sorry. And a lot of this, it wouldn't have been as bad as it is for him right now, but he's losing everything. He looked at the attacker, at the attacker, but I want you to describe as all this little stuff here. You couldn't see. He was said, these guys are huge, both of them. They're huge. They're big. They work out and stuff. They're big guys. You would, and yeah, they had a mask on. I didn't see who it was, but he goes, he goes that far, but he goes away from the big, huge stuff down to those little details that you would just, that you wouldn't bring up to later on. Well, you didn't recognize. No, no, no, no, they had a mask on. That would have been secondary. How big they were would have been right out of your mouth, right out of the gate there at that point. Then he locks all that down. Like you guys were saying earlier about how it's cold in Chicago. And that's, and so it'd be normal for somebody to have a mask on. I couldn't see there. I couldn't see anything. Didn't say anything about their skin color either. So I couldn't see if I could see was this right here, you know, this and this right here. Come on, man. If you're wearing a ski mask, we've all seen people in ski masks. You can see, you can see a lot around ski masks. So this is just, at some point, somebody just needed to shut them down and go, look dude, you shouldn't do, you shouldn't do this. You need to go straight this out right now. This is not good. This is not going to turn out good, but don't have anybody around him, I guess to do that at this point. So that's all I got. And one thing on the, when you said he, he started screaming, imagine hearing someone tell you that, you know, the boss called them at one in the morning and they started freaking out, or they heard some really bad news about a family member and they start and they said, I started to feel sad or I got into a car accident and the airbag started to go off. We don't do that. That doesn't happen. Well, my favorite part of this whole story is he's tussling and fighting, fighting, fighting and gets a rope around his neck, but he's still holding on to his sandwich at the end of this thing. It takes it back. You know, you're like, who does that? That, that is more than plausible as far as I can see. Subway. I was in my check. It's a subway. It's a subway sandwich. I like Subway as much as the next person. You like a subway. We all like a subway. I do. I do Turkey and Provolone. Yeah. I think it's good. I do. It was a town of baby finishers. Two Benio salad in there. The tune is good. Budgeted dressings. Jalapenos. But you ought to do it. It gets toppings, yeah. Turkey and the Provolone with pickles. That's good. Yeah. Oh yeah. How long did this all take? It felt like minutes, but it probably was like 30 seconds, honestly. I can't tell you honestly. I noticed the rope around my neck and I started screaming and I said, there's a rope around my neck. Did you get any kind of description of the attack? I gave a body description and I, you know, because I saw this, but and, you know, right here or whatever. But I didn't see. I can't tell you what color their eyes were. I can't tell you. And I did not see anything except the second person I saw running away. And the first person, yeah, I saw saw his stature. I gave the description as best as I could. You have to understand also that it's Chicago in winter. People can wear ski masks and nobody's going to question that. The police have gone through a lot of video and they were able to capture an image of two people of interest. Have you seen that image? And do you believe that they could possibly be the attackers? I do. What is it about their their size or what? Why do you feel that they could possibly be? Because I was there. For me, when that was released, I was like, okay, we're getting somewhere. I don't have any doubt in my mind that that's them. Never did. All right, well, I'll go first on this one. She says, do you believe they could be the attackers? And he says, I do. You wouldn't say this. That's them. Yeah, that's them. I saw it. As soon as she said, you saw the video of that, right? You wouldn't go, I did. You go, yeah, I did. That's them. That's the two guys right there. That's them. Come on. This is just, this is just, it's a bad lie. We know I'm going to quit saying that. Everybody understands the horrible lie. Then for body language, again, he's really still at his blink, blink rates really, really low. He's got to think about is the compressed lips and the tongue and all that. I think these are adapters in there because man, this guy is nervous because he's just gone all in doing all the stuff at this point. So I don't think he's trying to hold anything back or anything. I think we're seeing these as adapters. That's what I think is happening here. And that's where I'll leave it. I just, it's just bad. Greg, what do you got? Yeah. And when I see his lips this time, I don't see compression. I see that disappearing lip and he's asking for approval. I don't see it the other way. I don't see it as a compression holding back anything. In fact, he's trying his best not to release anything. He's just trying to go, I better hold off on this one. What if this goes wrong? Her baseline is pretty clear now. She's got lots of hand movement. She's illustrating. She's asking. She's trying to get information from him. And then he says, I have no doubt in my mind, and he is less emphatic about that than he is about getting a salad in the first video. So go back and watch the first one when he talks about food. He's more emphatic about that than have no doubt in my mind. Really stupid. Then he blocks his eyes, the sides of his mouth draw down and his face goes flat and he sucks his lips back in his face. If I were putting somebody's life on the line based on that, I'd go like, you know, no, this is not the guys. Even if something did happen, the guy'd say, I don't believe these are the guys because he's got no commitment to the problem. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So exactly the same. There's so much kind of lip retraction and it's a sour taste going on. And I think he's concerned now about how well this is going to work out for him. That's them. There's an upward inflection in that it should be a downward emphatic inflection if he felt it was them. And I'm getting fading facts on that, Scott. I think the them at the end is too quiet. Like that's them. That's them. That's where it should be hitting hard instead. It's like, that's that's them. It's like, it just doesn't sound right. And then look, I mean, somebody listened to this and put down below what it is he exactly says. But he says at the end, in my mind, he either says, never did it or never didn't. But he should be saying never did. Yeah, never did. It should be never did, but there's an extra syllable at the end. And I can't quite work out. And I didn't put my headphones on and work it out. I can't work out whether it's an embedded confession of never did it or never didn't in that he's just his brain is now tripping out and he's adding extra syllables where they shouldn't be. But I truly think he should be saying never did and he adds an extra syllable at the end for some reason. And that that's it's really tripping up for him now. Chase, what do you got on this one? Yeah, you guys got quite a bit there's a lot of internal dialogue where his eyes are moving down and to his left. And I think this is just kind of this is what we do if something's rehearsed. But please keep in mind that truthful statements can also be rehearsed, especially before a news interview. If I'm going on the news or to do some interview about something in my life, I'm going to make I'm going to have an outline when I have something I know I'm going to talk about. But this is some rehearsal. But at the word doubt, there's chewing, we see some chewing with the mouth. And there's a qualifier thrown in there in my mind. And right when we hear in my mind, there's lip retraction, which indicates typically a need for reassurance and then lip licking, which is a potentially deceptive behavior potentially. And this is what's called a hygienic gesture, like adjusting your hair, picking lint off of your clothing. Subconsciously, we do these things to make ourselves look better to the other person and technically more believable. But Mark, I'm with you with this upward tone. And right at the same time where we see the upward tone here, there is there's no mouth closure. There's no head shaking. The chin is down. There's an approval request. And then at the very end, we're seeing lip compression. There's a shoulder shrug with one shoulder during an apology. And during apologies, that's when we should see both shoulders go up. And this is just about universal in every culture in the world. No matter where you go, the kind of the double shoulder shrug during the apology. And there's lip licking. And right around the end never did. When Mark was talking about that, there's no pronouns. No pronouns there. And a lack of pronouns is a pretty big red flag for me. That's all I got. The police have gone through a lot of video and they were able to capture an image of two people of interest. Have you seen that image and do you believe that they could possibly be the attackers? I do. What is it about their size or why do you feel that they could possibly be? Because I was there. For me, when that was released, I was like, okay, we're getting somewhere. I don't have any doubt in my mind that that's them. Never did. Cool. His eyes narrow when he's apologizing too, which is weird. During that time before they came took them about maybe half an hour to come. And during that time, I was looking at myself just like checking myself out. I saw the bruise on my neck, you know, like the little, the rope burn around my neck. And then I, but I smelled bleach. I know the smell of bleach. And I saw on my sweatshirt, it had marks on it, like spots on it when you have a bad bleach job. So then I was like, there's bleach on me too. So when the police came, I kept the clothes on. I kept the rope. So you had the rope on the entire time? I mean, it wasn't like wrapped around, but yeah, it was around because I wanted them to see. I wanted them to see what this was. Greg, what do you got? So I'm going to take very little time on him and I'm going to spend part of my time on her again. This is a good example of a great actor on a bad script. Again, wait, it'll get better. And she is not believing this. Look how balled up she is. She's closed up now. I would be surprised if we asked her and she said, no, I didn't believe him. I mean, she didn't say that because she's so balled up. And then he's doing that scorekeeper thing again. He goes, I had a bruise on my neck and he sniffs. There's one of his pieces. But then he says something really out of character for any human being, the little rope burn on my neck. If you give me a rope on my neck, it's a damn significant event. Trust me. I would think of all the things that I can imagine having a rope around my neck and getting a rope burn, I wouldn't call it a little rope burn. So I don't believe him there because I would think that's an emotional big event. And, you know, with the history of that in the US with black men, especially the emotional part of that, the single black juror on the conviction he just received said that was the thing that made it not believable to him, that he took it so lightly and that he wore this rope around his neck afterward. And he was saying, I'd get it off there to your point you said earlier, Scott. I can't begin to imagine what that would feel like, but I can't imagine that I wouldn't call it that. I'll just leave it at that. She's balling up. She's closing him out. And he's using details that seem awfully insignificant, considering that's a very symbolic thing in American culture. Scott, what do you got? All right. This is where everything changes body language wise. Here we're seeing him go from everything being really still and really quiet and his arms down all that. He's starting to use illustrators now. He's starting to get big. His voice is louder because this actually happened. He did all this stuff and he went and looked at himself in the mirror. This is where he's telling the truth here. He's looking at himself in the mirror. He's checking these things out. He's looking at the rope burn. He's doing all those things to make sure everything's okay. So he remembers that and he described it just like you would if something like that were to happen. So in this section, he's actually being honest about it for 90% of it because he's just describing what he did once he did this stuff to himself. So are these guys helped him do as he was in there looking at it and making sure everything was cool to settle the cops when they showed up. And the rope is the first thing you do is take the rope off. You wouldn't think, let me think about this. I'm just going to leave it on. I'm going to leave it on and nope. Nope. You're going to take it. That's the first thing you do is take it off. You don't look at it in the mirror and scooch it around and stuff. It's a noose. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So first of all, you got, excuse me, as you're both saying, the symbolism of that rope. Reason number one to remove it from yourself because of the shocking symbolism of it. Number two, if you've ever been around theater, which my guess is he has, you know that rope is super dangerous on the best of occasions. Yeah. And you use it in your work. If you use rope in your work and around film sets, around theaters, around any actor, there is rope. And you learn very quickly. If you've got rope around any part of your body, you get that off you really fast. And if you see rope on somebody else's body, it's like you get you get that out. In fact, we have a whistling system in theater. Well, it's not a way it's a whistling system in that you don't whistle in theaters because theaters were built by by naval people, actually from the beams of some of the old naval ships going right back to Queen Elizabeth the first. And so the people running the ropes would be ex Navy. And so you didn't walk around whistling in a theater because they would start luring stuff in because of the Boson's whistles signals. So ropes are are associated with performance and acting and you stay out of their way. Now take all of that out, even if he, you know, he just got into acting, you know, how he got into it, never around a theater or a film set. My if you've got something around your neck, it is a very vulnerable area of the body. And the first thing you're going to want to do is escape that you will have a reflex to escape that and you'll try and escape until you've completed. Greg, I'm sure when you've, you know, taken people in the past, they fight and fight and fight until they can't fight anymore. They just keep on going. They toss on going. They toss. They will toss all the way to the steps. They will tussle all the way to the steps. Yeah. But for him, he's like, oh, I tussle, tussle, tussle. When it comes to a rope around my neck, sort of keep that on. I mean, just like a shawl. He seems to be explaining that it's a shawl situation now. So anyway, doesn't it doesn't make sense in so many ways. Let's go to one more thing on this, which is the bleach. So the geography of the bleach is it's somewhere here, but it should be here. He should be talking about the spots of bleach here. But it's about he's kind of miming that it's either bleach in his hand or he's got a shirt in his hands and he's pointing to the the bits of bleach. It doesn't make any sense. It feels like he maybe took a shirt, put bleach on it. And he's showing us how there's bleach on the shirt. It should be here. So the geography makes no sense for me. It's going really badly for him. Chase, what do you got on this one? The first thing we see here, which is a red flag is a breathing shift from his abdomen to his chest. So which is an increase in stress. The closer we breathe towards our abdomen, if you're looking at a person across a broom is the more comfortable they are. And then second, this probably some of this did happen, like Scott said, but it's still part of a story. And I think this is a great opportunity to talk about or just this whole video illustrates the difference between deception and storytelling. And when we see the stress markers, they're very, very similar to deception. And deception is about filling time. Truth is about information. This is about filling up gaps in your memory and not about a lot of information. And then there's more storytelling lingo in here. There's I saw the bruise on my neck. I smelled bleach. I saw my sweatshirt. Then there's moves down to internal dialogue. During the bridge, the bleach story. And I think the bleach was probably realistically added to the mix due to watching maybe too much CSI and trying to cover up DNA evidence. And I think that it's possible, this is my opinion, that he overestimated how much investigative effort is going to be made into this because of television. They're going to be doing swabs. They're going to be doing photographs. He probably imagined a lot of CSI type situations going on with this assault. So I think that's why the bleach was introduced into the situation. Second reason for that is when he said bleach job, I've never said I've never heard a human being say those two things in my life. But if I was using it to cover something up, I might actually say that. So maybe the words bleach job are truthful. Maybe there was a job to do with bleach. And then we see like he needs approval when he's saying I kept all the clothes on. But anyway, to what Greg talks about all the time, there's no emotion and there's no recall with his eyes. We talk about the eyes moving around all the time, especially Greg does. There's none of that in here. There's no emotion and no recall. That's all I got. During that time before they came, took them about maybe half hour to come. And during that time, I was looking at myself just like checking myself out. I saw the bruise on my neck, you know, like the little, the rope burn around my neck. And then I, but I smelled bleach. I know the smell of bleach. And I saw on my sweatshirt, it had marks on it, like spots on it when you have a bad bleach job. So then I was like, there's bleach on me too. So when the police came, I kept the clothes on. I kept the rope. So you had the rope on the entire time. I mean, it wasn't like wrapped around, but yeah, it was around because I wanted them to see. I wanted them to see what this was. If the attackers are never found, how will you be able to heal? I don't know. Let's just hope that they are. You know what I'm saying? Like, let's, let's not go there yet. Let's talk into a friend. And I said, I just want them to find them. And she said, sweetie, they're not going to find them. And I just made me so angry because I'm just going to be left here with this. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm just going to be left here with, with like, so they get to go free and go about their life and possibly attack someone else. And I'm here to left with, left with the aftermath of this bull. That's not cool to me. That's not okay. So I understand how difficult it will be to find them. But we got to, I still want to believe with everything that has happened, that there's something called justice. Because if I stop believing that, then what's it all for? That was awesome. Great acting. That was awesome. All right. Chase, what do you got? I think this is incredible. And I'm starting to talk every time now. I'm checking my mute button every, every time. I think this is an incredible illustration of fake tears covering fake smiles to cover up the fake tears and talking about artificial anger at the same time. It's like chef's kiss. Perfect. Incredible. There's emotional eye accessing in here though, but only with a sigh of relief during the phrase or when you saw him at the attackers never being found a sigh of relief that they're never going to be found. And there's immediate lip retraction and some movement to this internal dialogue, eye movement down in this direction to about our five o'clock or so. Right at a critical point here. He's leaning back and away from the interviewer. And I think Robin is doing an incredible job with this entire thing. And I think she's making it very obvious to the camera that she doesn't believe any of this. She even said it in an interview after this. Leaning back and away at the words, let's hope they are found. And then we hear the phrase left here with like with. He didn't know what he was left there with because it's a false situation. He didn't know what to say. So he changed the subject and we can see it right there. You can see the internal dialogue shift moving right back here when he's deciding what to say next just before he does that. And what's incredible here is he's amused with himself the exact line when he said, I was going to go get a salad earlier. We see the little smirk on his face. And I think this is a memorized one liner, something called justice. I don't think that's going to age well. But there's a smirk to himself. And then he shifts to the left side smirk. And this is his baseline in every interview that he's done when someone compliments him or he's made to feel cool in front of other people. And it failed to make any sense of a lot of this. So if you saw the expression from when I told you to spot when he said salad, if you were able to spot that in this, let us know in the comments. That's all I got. Mark, what do you think? Yeah, I think it's a good performance. I think this is actually quite a nice piece of acting for many of you. There's a piece of acting, but it's quite a nice piece of acting for many reasons. If he'd have opened with this, if he'd have drawn straight into this, this could have been a different interview for him. But he avoids this right at the start, constructs this story and then goes into it later on. But it has some elements here of classic good story, which is he's got that pathos moment, which is the salad. He introduces something which is so kind of delicate and out there. At this point that I remember the salad, beautiful piece of pathos there. There's a pathos, which is the let down, that sigh there chase is pathetic. It just makes us go, oh God, if everything could just be different, but that's the way life just rolls out, they'll never be found. And it becomes quite actually melodramatic, I would say at that point. Because then he goes to, well, some big themes like, I stop believing that. So he moves into, from salad, which is some quite sweet points, into that let down, into the idea of belief and big ideas there. So nice maneuver. Look, part of good acting is what I would term controlled psychosis. You are having a feeling that you should not have at that point because the events that would create that feeling, those events are not happening. So you're creating the events and having the feeling of the events and that is psychotic. But you control that, you do it on purpose. And I think he does that pretty well here and with some nice movement of story in there. But ends it all. I think to chase this point there with this with quite a lot of asymmetry, a lot of asymmetry in the face, one shoulder up. I'm always concerned when suddenly asymmetry turns up. It's a classic image of the trickster throughout throughout history, classic image of that. And the classic image that there are two parts of the brain in conflict with each other, a left side, a right side, a dark side, a light side, that they're playing with each other. And there is conflict going on. And you shouldn't get involved with this person, too much conflict going on. But nice performance. Greg, what do you have on this one? Yeah, I'm with you. This is one of the rare occasions I've watched somebody and thought, damn, I've been missing him acting because he's good. I see complexity in the acting. I see what you're saying, Chase. I told you a long time ago, my first body language entry was looking for when a person cries, what does it take? He does a great job. He goes to internalize something that internal voice gives him whatever his reason is. And I'm no great method actor, so I don't know what it takes. But he moves into a place that makes him actually cry. And he has subtlety. It's not just the crying. It's the brave face while crying. That's complex. If you're doing that intellectually, damn, that's impressive. So he does that, and he gets a good cry out. Then he does that whole close. I say he's doing close up please when he does that because he looks like he really wants you to see that whole acting job for just a split second. I see a lot of concern. And for a fleeting second, I see a little grief arch there. But I see mostly concern whether I'm being perceived right or not. The other thing is his body is getting smaller as he's doing it. If I'm really upset, I'm probably going to either lean forward and get attention, try to pay attention to you. I probably would wipe my eyes if I were crying. But I think he does a fantastic job here. And what I see that body as when you see that twisting and turning and kind of half-face, I think it's sarcasm, Mark. I think it's sarcasm at its best leaking out because he's done such a good job up to that point. When he says I hope they find him, I think sarcasm comes out through it. She doesn't believe him. If you look her face, this is the thing I said earlier. I thought it was in that earlier video. Her face does something that's akin to disdain or contempt or disapproval or disgust or something in there like, hold on a minute. Her face just wrenches up. And I read later, she said she could not win with this video is one of the most difficult, complex interviews she'd ever done because she's a black woman who is gay. And him being a black gay man, she was afraid that the community that the gay community would be upset with her if she was too hard on him and that other people would say she took it easy on him because. So it was a complex situation for her. So we can only wonder what's going through her head at the same time. Remember, we're studying symptoms. We're not studying mind reading to your friend's point, Scott. Scott, what do you got? Yeah. Well, you all have covered everything, but you're right. It's fantastic acting. This is really good because when he gets, he does everything that says it's acting because he's not really showing the true emotions he should show when it comes to his forehead and all that. We do see, like Greg was saying, a lot of concern. And for just a brief amount of time, we do see a little bit in the grief muscle there. I can't do it. Greg, will you do it real quick? There it is. So we see just a bit of that in there. That's hard to do. That's hard to do. So he's summing something up from somewhere. Now going, if this was a play, then this would have been this was his place. He planned to end it. This is the end. This is it, man. He's getting ready to start his curtain call and all that because he's gone through all that. But we forget about the part where Macbeth, everybody starts hating him, thinks he's a dink and she's there, man. She's there. We see that in the next video. So he's doing everything he should do to show that he's feeling sorry. And that was his end. But didn't end there. He starts asking some other questions, but it would have been perfect for that at that point because he's very still. Like y'all were saying he's really still. He starts turtling again, gets really small, really small up in there, locks eyes with her and he gets so corn ball and this just so it's just so corny at this point. And he doesn't wipe his tear until he finishes his little speech there. Then he does his nose in his tears. So which is another, you know, hello, I'm a I'm an actor. You're welcome. One of those many laughs that he laughs and then he wipes his tears away after that. So that's really, you know, now keep in mind earlier, he didn't care about any of this stuff. He didn't care if the police were called. He didn't care of any of this stuff, but now it's such a concern. He wants to get him caught and all that earlier. He didn't give a hoot. He went, you know, his manager was one that had to call the cops. He didn't do it and all these other things. So this continues his speech to be what a great man he is still trying to pull himself out of the hole by saying, you know, what about justice? And this curtain should drop at that point, but it doesn't. If the attackers are never found, how will you be able to heal? I don't know. Let's just hope that they are. You know what I'm saying? Like, let's not go there yet. Let's talk into a friend and I said, I just want them to find them. And she said, sweetie, they're not going to find them. They're just maybe so angry because I'm just going to be left here with this. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm just going to be left here with, with like, so they get to go free and go about their life and possibly attack someone else. And I'm here to left with that left with the aftermath of this bull. That's not cool to me. That's not okay. So I understand how difficult it will be to find them. But we got to, I still want to believe with everything that has happened that there's something called justice. Because if I stop believing that, then what's it all for? Let's go from here and sing called justice. The phone, when did you, because as you said, it was an accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you make that information available to the police? We gave, we had to give the phone records, which they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone to the tech for three to four hours. I'm sorry. But I'm not going to do that. Why? Because I have private pictures and videos and numbers, my partner's number, my family's number, my castmate's number, my friend's numbers, my private emails, my private songs, my private voice memos. I don't know what that's going to be to hand over my phone for and honestly by then inaccurate false statements had already been put out there. Here we go. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so he does a sudden pronoun shift to we. We haven't heard that yet. We, we, we. This is a big deal. Then he starts to parse facts. Parsing words is when you're saying, well, that's not what this means or that means. Well, it's a fact they ask you for your phone or phone records. You know what they want. You're trying to play some game. But my favorite is then he wraps himself in loyalty. It's not about me. It's about my partner, my family, my friends, my contractual obligations, even my safety. He's insulating those words he's wrapping himself up in. Then he chaffs and redirects himself into the end of a sentence where he abruptly has to change ideas is the best part of the whole thing. My phone to who dot dot dot four. And then he says, honestly, and redirects to somebody making a false account. This is, there's nothing truthful in what he's saying here. He wouldn't be editing as he speaks and he wouldn't go there. He was trying to hide that phone because he knew that if they got ahold of all those records, they would know what was going on and who he had talked to. I have a feeling not sure that that's my opinion. But if you look, he says, I'm sorry, but dot dot dot then goes into that wrapping himself. Then he goes my phone to who for dot dot dot. He's just gotten himself in a bind here. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I had the same thing with the pronoun shift. And if there's one thing you're looking for as a behavior profiler, as one of our subscribers, as a panelist is changes, we are in the business of change detection and seeing a pronoun shift like this from going to self pronouns to team pronouns. That's a big deal. And right at the beginning, there's something that Mark talks about frequently in our videos, which is a sniff, almost a territorial or an angry sniff. And you see that here before she asked the question, the moment the phone is brought up, she brings up phone and then question. And the moment that happens, we see this little kind of sniff there, just kind of a territorial sniff, the same sniff that I do when I'm like alone in an airport bathroom, and somebody comes in and starts walking past the stalls, kind of this little yeah, somebody in here kind of sniff. That's what we're, I think, what we're seeing right there. But this is his first time moving his eyes to around two to three o'clock, which is another big change, which is what we're really looking for. He usually does this and now he's doing this. That's what we're looking for. So when you hear body language, people talking about like, this always means X, Y, and Z, that's not true. It's almost never true. This one where one thing means one thing. So when he says, I'm sorry, there's a single shrug again where he's kind of lacking confidence. And the eyes are now back down into this internal dialogue, which is rehearsal, I think. And he's unable to finish these sentences, Greg, to your point, that I completely agree. But let's all listen to exactly what's on his phone. It's exactly what's on every phone in the world on everybody's phone. Even if it's a flip phone, you've got some private pictures, some private stuff on there, you've got your friends contacts, he just made a list of what's on every phone in the world. So we're seeing that it's not about information. It's about filling time and filling up potential gaps in your mind. So it's not about sharing story. It's not about feeling. It's not about being genuine. It's about filling up time. That is what deception is all about. Mark? Yeah, good call on what I call a peach sniff there. Chase, a kind of a huff to say get out of my territory. In fact, apes have a kind of a more guttural bark, which is almost like a cough. And often you'll you'll see us humans hear us humans give not another cough from here, but a cough from deeper in the chest to say get out of my territory. In fact, the singer Tom Jones, I believe uses those kind of ape like cough that coughs in his singing in order to attract attention to him as like the alpha male, the alpha kind of singer when he's when he's doing those sexy love songs. So have a listen to to Tom Jones for that kind of sound a bit different from peaches sniff. But she does her best. Now, yeah, I've got that just so you know, we don't kind of make this stuff up. You know, here I've got the we Yeah, there. When did you well, we and for me that suggests as well, he's sharing out the blame as well. He knows there's something wrong about withholding the same kind of phone that everybody else has with the same kind of information. And so he shifts the blame it's no longer him denying the police access to that it's well, we we deny the police access to that. And then there's too many proof points for his argument there, you know, I've got this on it, this on it, this on it, this on it, the other on it. He's protesting too much. It would be okay just to say look, I don't trust the police tech with my phone. In fact, I trust them to the degree that I would rather the culprits weren't found, because I fear that data going missing more than I fear, you know, if the culprits weren't found, that would be arguably sensible. Okay, but making this list of all like you say chase all the stuff that everybody else has, you know, everybody's got some but something to keep secret, or they don't want everybody to know it's private. You could have just said, just like your phone, it's private. And I fear if it went to the hands of a police tech, it could get anywhere you've seen that happen. I've seen that happen. I worry about that. That would have been fine. But that's all I got on that one. Scott, where you go? All right, I agree with you. And I think having all this stuff that supposedly happened to him, and I wrap it up a little bit, you just say, Mark, is talking about the word, the names he was called, and a rope and the bleach and all that, he wouldn't have cared about the stuff on his phone. He would say, yeah, I gave him everything because I want to catch him. His main concern would be to catch them and to make sure they knew exactly who these people were and they got justice. So if he's so concerned about justice, then why didn't he give him his phone? All that stuff would have been secondary at that point because he said they broke all of the main rules you don't break in that situation. And he swore up and down in court that they did that. And there's no turning back at this point. So he should have, he would have given the phone over. He would have said, no, I gave him the phone. That wouldn't even have come up because he would have said, yeah, here it is. And gotten that taken care of, and gotten that out of the way. The phone, when did you, because as you said, it was an accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you make that information available to the police? We gave, we had to give the phone records, which they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone to the tech for three to four hours. I'm sorry. But I'm not going to do that. Why? Because I have private pictures and videos and numbers, my partner's number, my family's number, my castmate's number, my friend's numbers, my private emails, my private songs, my private voice memos. I don't know what that's going to be to hand over my phone for. And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been put out there. Let's roll around the room one time. We'll give a wrap up and say what we think about the whole situation. Mark, what do you got? You go first. We'll go to Chase and then Greg. Sorry. For me, an interesting one about this, which is bees and cheap signals. In the beehive, if you come back from searching for honey and you come back and you give the signal, you give a dance that suggests that if you fly X degrees to the sun for X amount of time, you will find honey. The bees will go out because they will believe you. If they don't find honey, they come back and find you as a bee and they kill you. Now, because you've got to have really cheap inexpensive signals around the stuff that really matters. It would be too complicated to communicate it. It also means if you give that signal, you have to be right. And if you're wrong, the hive will come and get you. Well, that's his problem now. In behavioral terms, it is a cheap signal to go, hey, they said this, they put a rope around my neck. And of course, we're going to go, well, that needs sorting out. That needs sorting out immediately. Our first move is going to go, we've got to find those people and we believe you and we've got to go and find these people. Well, if you turn out that you gave those cheap signals and you were lying, you're in big trouble right now. Society is designed to extricate you. It's designed to show that is incredulous to that. And it will show disdain and contempt around that. So he's got a big problem right now, behaviorally. Chase, what are your thoughts? He may only have a big problem because he's got like confidential data on his phone. You know, that was the only reason that's what I don't have any of mine. I don't know anybody who does. I've been trained, my daughter is 14 years old and I've been training my daughter in this art form. I guess I would call it since she was about six. And to the point where we'd be in a restaurant and I would ask her questions about people in the restaurant and she would have to answer them correctly to get dessert. And two years ago, we watched this, she was 12 at the time. And the first thing my daughter said was she didn't know that anything about the video. She just saw it on my TV in my office. The first thing she said was, is this a skit? And I turned out her confused and she said, like, is it like Saturday Night Live or something? Her first question is she was 12 at the time. So I'll just leave it that my daughter had all of it pegged, every bit of it. Greg. Yeah, if you're going to make up a lie, you should not make it the perfect lie because when you think of the motivation of the people who did it down to the letter of detail, they don't, you don't think about how you reacted. You're going to be more focused on what they're doing and thinking than you are about your response. When, like the guy who broke my nose with a Coke bottle, I'm not thinking about why did I'm thinking about, I wish he hadn't done that. And I'll tell you what happened, how I got in the situation, how he hit me. I won't tell you, you know, where he came from, what color clothes he was wearing, maybe because I might or might not remember them, but I certainly will not know his side of the story. This gets to a lot of their side of the story. And it makes his story fall apart. Anytime that you're being interrogated, your job is to hide the truth if you've done something wrong. If you've done nothing wrong, everything I know, I'm going to tell you everything, I'm going to give you every detail. And those details will be simple because Chase, you hit it dead on in some cases. I don't know. I don't know why the guy did this. I don't know what color shoe laces were. I didn't care. He was hitting me in the face with a bottle. That's the way people talk. They don't come with every little explanation. He was wearing a MAGA hat. He was saying this. He was doing that. Every detail you could possibly think of to wrap yourself in righteousness usually is an indicator the person is not telling the truth. This is a great example. And he's a good actor. I'm sorry I've missed him. I will start watching some of his stuff. Scott, what do you got? Yeah, I agree with you. He's a great actor. And to sum this all up in a Shakespearean sense, Shakespeare wrote this play called As You Like It. And there's this guy in there who's a court jester. His name was Touchstone, right? And he said, the fool's death think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. I think we're dealing with a fool here. That's all I gotta say. All right. We good? Yeah. Oh, don't forget to subscribe. Yeah, don't forget to subscribe and hit that little bell down there so you know we have a new episode come out. We'll shoot you a notification when a video comes out. Yeah, I'll see you next time. She would have been all over him for that one, too. The dog's gonna take Chase, your dog's gonna follow off the thing, man. Chase, dog's gonna jump off the table. Dog, dog, dog. Your dog's gonna jump off the table, Chase. Looks like she's gonna jump off the table. You go like this. No, Chase looks like a goat. He's like a goat there. Look at that. Hey, look. Hold your dog up, man. She'll bark. She'll bark at your dog, probably. See, I don't think they see what's going on. Oh, no, my dogs can see TV green. My dogs see TV. My dog's got horrible eyesight. My dog can't even see food. You can literally wave it's like, what's that? What's that? You have to put it right under the nose. My little dog barks at the TV.