 With the face-off in the People's Democratic Party and other political events leading to the 2023 elections, the governors in the South-South state areas are yet to meet with and review activities within the region. The Director-General of the Bialsa River's Aqaibom Cross River, Edo and Delta Commission, Ambassador Joe Keshe, said due to variations and bitterness of the succession politics in some states in the area, the governors that emerged from the 2015 normal elections could not meet to discuss the Bialsa, Rivers, Aqaibom, Cross River, Edo and Delta fee being negated. Well joining us to discuss this is Ken Robinson, he is the National Publicity Secretary, PAN DEF, which is PAN Niger Delta Forum. Thank you so much Mr. Robinson, it's so good to have you here. Thank you for this opportunity to speak to these issues. Thank you. I wonder what Ambassador Joe Keshe is referring to, so I'll just put it blatantly, what is the problem within the Niger Delta state and of course the governors? Is there some form of bitterness as he said, is there any truth to it? The Niger Delta region is the peculiar region in Nigeria. If you go to the south east, they understand themselves, that's in terms of language. If you go to the south west, they understand themselves across the south west, from ondo to Lagos to Ayo, they understand themselves to a larger extent in terms of language. And across Northern Nigeria, to a larger extent from Sokoto to Boronu state, they understand themselves. In the Niger Delta, within six states, there is so much diversity in terms of language and it's a problem that we've had so far and it's one of the responsibilities that PAN DEF has given to itself to see how, in spite of our diversity, how we can work together as a people, because the problems we are confronted with are common. I would say that, yeah, go ahead. There is common knowledge that people say politics is a game of interest. And we see this happening across Nigeria, where people project and elevate their personal political interests above the common or shared interests of their people. And this perhaps has been taken to the extreme in the Niger Delta and it is not just new, it has been our story and we hope that our politicians, our political leaders, will rise above their personal political interests and consider the interests of the region and the people more than what they think to gain in terms of political advancement. Well, let's talk about – I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry to talk over you. Now I want to go to what the commission was established for. The commission was established essentially to foster economic cooperation and integration among South-South states. The main objective, as we know, was to create sustainable zone for economic development with the capacity to create employment and prosperity. But so far, politics, like you said, has come between us and of course you've talked about the language barrier, but there's so much in the Niger Delta, there's so much potentials to be harnessed. But then we've not even been able to scratch the surface, apart from a few states who might be doing so well, maybe the likes of Rivers and Aqaibom, the same cannot be said for the rest of the state. So why can't governance band together, if not for anything, for economic purposes? We cannot stop to re-emphasize and stress on the issue that we work together, we are better working together than working as individual states. Either South-South states of Nigeria are working together, the governors are working together as people with common problems. It's certain that our economic and political and even social state would have been different. Now Brace Commission, as you rightly said, was established to foster economic cooperation and integration. Unfortunately, as the DGO Brace Commission has said that this has not been happening, the fact remains that we need to call on our political leaders to understand that we are a people and we are confronted with the same problems across the Niger Delta, from cross-strait states to those states. As we speak today, it's difficult for commuters to drive from smoothly, from worry to bini. It's also difficult to get yourself from Uyut to cross-strait states. The same thing in some sections of East West Road, in river states, from the enemy junction in Portugal to the enemy junction is terrible. And this situation, that's just one of the issues. But if we work together and we've asked ourselves, why can't the six states of the South-South cooperate and build a super highway from Calabar to Edo state? And whatever we want to do with that road, it's our road, it's our resources and we can do that. Unfortunately, politics has been cited, has been elevated, political interests. Where next should I be? Political supremacy. Who should be in control of the South-South? Who should be the political leader of the South-South? Not just in the PDP. That happens also in the APC, and we have seen party members, political party leaders in the same party, fighting supremacy battles to the detriment of the people of the Niger Delta. But let me emphasize that your entire idea says leadership deficit crisis. It's not just about the Niger Delta, Nigeria has a leadership crisis. Problems of Nigeria are leadership problems, and until we get leadership right, we might not be able to resolve the crisis in the Niger Delta as well as in the larger Nigeria. Interestingly, you actually led me into my next question. It's one thing for us to say that the country as a whole has bad leadership, but then the government that is closest to us are our governors, our local government heads, our national state assembly members. So let's start from home before we get to the national. If our governors who took a note to represent us, to protect, to serve us, to make our lives a lot better by creating avenues or laws or whatever it is to make our lives easier, I'm not doing that, but you also talked about political interests. I think I'm wondering, should the people in the States not be holding these so-called leaders to some level of responsibility? I mean, do we really realize how much power that we wield as a people? Again, as the Niger Delta, we're a region that has been bedeviled by all spillage, environmental degradation, et cetera, et cetera, the list is endless. Why are we still quiet about this and just pointing fingers at these so-called leaders? We could make all the noise that we could make, we could say all that we want to say. For us in Panda, it's strategic for us not to be involved in the crisis within the leadership crisis within the Niger Delta region, particularly that's the differences between the governors. What we can do as leaders and fathers of the Niger Delta region is to see how we can talk to these people to put their differences aside and work towards the interests, the overall interests of the Niger Delta people. But when you talk about monitoring and taking the responsibility to say, look, you're not doing this right, you're not doing that right, it becomes difficult because the Nigerian political system, particularly the constitution that we operate with, has reduced the citizens to spectators in their own country. The governors, as we have always said, are like demigods and the president of Nigeria is like the god of Nigeria. And you can see that even if a national assembly goes against the president of Nigeria in ways and manners that the presidency do not fashion, the next election cycle you will see some of those senators that we are seeing as troublemakers not returning to the national assembly. And it's the same with the state assemblies. The state assemblies across Nigeria are like total, are under the total control of the governors. And that's why for us in Panda it is the restructuring of the country, it's the re-jigging of the political system and ensuring that political institutions are strengthening. The legislature is strengthening to be independent to the extent that they could do their oversight functions so that they have the proper check and balance system in the political system to strengthen our democracy, to reduce the powers of the of the executive. We've had some governors of states say, I have enormous powers. You don't know the kind of powers that I have. We can't, you know, function as a proper society in that kind of a system. And we've said before now that even if you bring an angel into Nigeria and giving those kind of awesome outstanding, outrageous powers, it will take some extra human forces to ensure that you don't abuse them and try to make yourself an emperor of a state or emperor of a country. I want to re-trade to my question. You did say something about the fact that these governors become a demigod of sorts and you just talked about, you know, being an emperor of sorts. But these people are made by certain people. Who makes them? Who gives them the power? I can hear you in my head saying, well, I mean, these people take the power. But then I'm imagining the number of people who we call our leaders in this country, they're just a tiny minority compared to the people who follow them. Because this not cost for us to look within us and re-evaluate our position as citizens of this country if a handful of people can tell us this is what they want and they go ahead and do is we reckless abandon. Should we not be worried and re-evaluate within ourselves, don't forget, we're getting ready for campaign season and the election is just around the corner. How do we go into the next election cycle with this kind of mentality? We're hoping that the next set of people that we merge will be people that will elevate their dispositions of nationality and they trot us into extreme levels and that there will be people that will suppress their personal interests and desires and political advancement. To get to a level in life when you begin to tell yourself, look, what is all this about? We look back at those who have been governors of various states and what are their lives today if they are not celebrated, they are people. So it's about human behavior, it's about self and we call it self intervention. You telling yourself, look, let's make things differently and it starts with of course all of us Nigerians that in the next coming elections, people will be able to say, look, this is the Nigeria that we want, these are the kind of leaders that we want. But as I've said always that we will continue to say that we have a system that is faulty and so when you make a king, the king becomes the king and the king makes us a subject of the king and if the king is not well prepared, he's not cultured, he's not refined, he's not properly mannered. He becomes an emperor, he becomes a demigod and everybody is a slave as it were and that's what we see in some of the states. And that is what the governors, some governors, let me not say all the governors, some governors have continued to demonstrate. In the south side there is the supremacy battle, who is the king maker, who is the lord of the lords, who is the governor of governors and so people are resisting, some are saying I want to be the governor of governors, others, people are lining to various positions and the complexity of the situation is that for us, pandas and some of us, we are also taking positions because of the overall interests of the country and the Niger Delta region, particularly constraining the presidency of Nigeria as we have always said in 2023 based on the fundamental principle of power rotation between the north and the south, the next president of Nigeria should come from southern Nigeria. Let's talk about the politics of this because right now, I was just having a conversation earlier today and I said if you turn to every single part of this country, there's something that's going wrong. We're having issues that are laced with tribal sentiments, I mean it seems the election that we're getting ready for is somewhat the political parties have decided to take positions, zonal positions, so one party, party A is for the south, party B is for the southeast, party C is for the north. But again, we also are dealing with issues of insecurity, we're dealing with issues of the economy, we're seeing, I mean the oil theft in the Niger Delta and other parts of the country has led to that 40-something billion Naira contract with Tom Polo. There's so many issues that are be dabbling us around the country right now but then we still stoop to support these same people who are, one way or the other, part of the problem. So again I want to ask, what is Pan-Niger Delta Forum doing in the Niger Delta to one way or the other change the mindsets of people? Again, like you said, language can be a barrier but first, do we see ourselves as Nigerians as opposed to what language you speak, or where you come from, or what political party that you support? First of all, PANDAF is pushing the idea that we could be Robos, we could be Jaws, the Czechirvijs, the Bibyans and all of that, we are Zogonis but first of all we are Niger Delta people. But the fact has to be said that I'm in Nigeria and because I'm from River State because I'm a Nigerian because I'm from Calabari and that's what makes me a Nigerian. And if I were situated in some other part of the world, I wouldn't have been a Nigerian except for us by naturalization. So first of all, who I am, where I am from. I am a Nigerian because I'm from River State. I'm in River State because I come from a community situated located in River State. So does that not complicate the issue? Because you see again, these are, I've spoken to many people, political scientists who have said that because of these ethnic divisions or in a bid for us to say, oh I'm an indigent of this and that, politicians take advantage of it and continue to widen those gaps and then we keep seeing ourselves as this and that as opposed to being Nigerians having one particular motive which is to grow our economy and to make Nigeria a better place. I completely disagree. The problem we have here is the mismanagement of our differences. Our differences, our complexity should be a blessing because we bring several positives to the table that should be managed properly. And let me say that every crisis is as a result of the mismanagement of interests. All that we are having in the Northwest, what we are having experiencing in the Southeast, in the Northeast, in the North Central, in the Southwest of Nigeria are results of mismanagement of interests by leaders of Nigeria. If we know that we are different people who by circumstances have been brought together to be part of a country called Nigeria and we manage our diversity and our complexities to the extent that we cannot satisfy everybody, but reasonably, then some of this crisis will not exist. Yesterday, I was in an engagement with officials of the Dutch Embassy in Nigeria and I made an illustration that we are six on the table and if food is served and only three persons on the table continue to eat and the next time food is served, those three persons eat and other persons need to keep washing, the point will cover inside to break the plate. And that's what's happening in Nigeria. Okay. Well, we're hoping that these lines can be blurred, hopefully, before the elections or we can see that these differences do not necessarily negate the fact that we're all Nigerians and we all hope for one thing to happen and which is unity. Well, Ken Robinson is the National Publicities Secretary of Pan-Niger Delta Forum, PANDF. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for the wonderful job you're doing. All right. We appreciate it. Well, before we go on the show tonight, I will give you my take. Here's my take. Now, all is fair in love and war, at least that's how the saying goes. But interestingly, the court conspicuously leaves out the battle's thoughts in the political arena because it is often said that politics is a dirty game and political rivals are allowed to go after each other in any way, short of criminal behavior. Sometimes even at the risk of wasting judicial resources, you know, opponents will go after each other legally, you know, over dubious positions that serve as nothing more than political theater meant to distract. If facts are what you seek about a candidate, the last place you'd ever find that is in your opponent. Yet, when it comes to the rules of what passes for an acceptable campaign, even the Independent National Electoral Commission, a buddy that ought to be impartial, fails to live up to delivering these facts. It is a known fact that the incumbent party sets the rules of engagement in an election. So trust, when I say fairness, is the least of the objectives in setting those rules. Well, something for you to think about. I am Mary Anacone and it's been Plus Politics. I'll see you tomorrow on The Show. Stay with us.