 Good afternoon. I'm Eddie Morse. I'm a rector of IT Delft, and I'm sitting here together with Guy Alerts and I'm Hoping that I reach a lot of people. I'm quite curious in which time zone you're sitting in So I would like to wish you all a very good morning and good afternoon and a good evening here in the Netherlands we're in the middle at noon and and with this very short introduction to the Symposium called from capacity development to implementation science, which is the sixth Symposium on the topic of capacity development in a period of 30 years. So this symposium is given every five years and one of the first things you would like to do is to have reflection actually on those 30 years. But before we do that I would like to give the floor to our tech host which is Anna because she will explain a little bit about how you can engage with us during this session. Please Anna. Thank you Eddie. During this session for all the audience joining in from everywhere in the world. Thank you You will be able to engage as I mentioned in an earlier message in the chat By talking to the others on the right hand side of the screen where there's the chat box You also have find some handout instructions on how you can engage before and after the webinar attached to this session itself And I would like to add that there'll be some polls coming up during the session And a Q&A during the designated time of Q&A is when you will be able to ask direct questions to the speakers Thank you, Eddie. Back to you. Okay. Thank you, Anna Could you please put the first slide on the screen? What I would like to do in the upcoming presentation is to explain a little bit about the total symposium And I also would like to let you know that Organizing a symposium like this online is quite a challenge And I also know that a lot of other organizations are also looking forward to see how you can do this So in that sense this symposium is also an example a learning example on how we can improve things By that it would be very welcome that in the place that you have your own experience that you can share that with us So we can develop the way how we're managing having symposia In a session like this in the future If you look at the symposium and you have had the opportunity to go through the program You will see that the symposium is composed from different parts One part is the keynotes that will be given there Another part consists of the different tracks. So there are eight official tracks within the program And the topics of these tracks they differ They switch from an introductory program on implementation science towards how we can arrange financing But also to how we can use big data If you are interested to follow those tracks, please feel free to have a look at the program And join them that can be done in different ways. One is actively during the webinars or the video conferences But another one could also be that you can have an engagement just by watching The taped webinars. So if you are in a time zone or if you are occupied with your work and not able to follow the present presentations At the moment you can always do that at the later stage This is also important for the chat box Because we will keep the questions that you're asking there and we will also post those questions Which allows us actually to help giving Representation but also answers actually from the different participants in there And while we're waiting actually a little bit for the presentation coming on the screen I would like to pose a question to Guy if I'm allowed and I think that In the presentation that Guy already uploaded on the portal of the symposium and I hope that a number of you have been able to follow that Guy also discusses an conceptual model of capacity planning and in that Capacity planning model you indicated that in a large number of cases The capacity planning is well written down in reports, but not really transferred into actions on the ground So based on your experience, what would you consider as the main step forward that should be taken to progress capacity development in the water sector? Thank you Eddi and hello to all of you Yeah, that's a very fundamental and challenging question So why is it still so difficult to have capacity development in Investment programs or in the budgets of organizations? What I think we should be doing Is perhaps three things And the first thing has to do with the observation that Capacity development is by definition Fuzzy it is a bit. It's also something that takes place over longer times So many years before people have absorbed have Embedded new knowledge have experimented with new approaches that takes time and look at the parliaments parliaments that approve budgets or bosses or the taxpayer Would like to see quick results and also likes to use metrics to see progress as expressed in for example kilometers of Pipes in the ground or the number of new clients For the water supply company For irrigation, etc. So we have to do more advocacy. I think that's one important step We have to emphasize that Working on the future of capacity development is to strengthen this time And those who approve budgets and monitor the implementation have to understand that secondly We have also become better at Demonstrating the value of capacity development so we can it's not enough to say, oh People will know better what to do. We have to be more specific more concrete So the the measuring measuring tools To demonstrate the impact that capacity is making have to become more More sophisticated have to become more telling to the To those who make decisions and decide on budgets Perhaps a final thing that he is some that I would say that in a very actionable that universities and institutes of higher learning research institutes Educational establishments in general have to come out of their Ivory tower and they have to become also more um Oriented towards problems some problem solving Uh, and that is more messy. That's more complicated. They have to then also work with they have to partner with organizations in The real world in you know in government in civil society Yeah, so that requires that universities University Steps of higher learning. They have to become also more able to to fulfill that role. I think these are three important steps to That we have to keep working on it okay, thank you gi and Just to continue a little bit on that is In in your again your extensive presentation that can be found on on the portal You also mentioned the 10 20 and 70 percent rule and What what if I understand it correctly what you mean by that is that 10 percent you will learn in the classroom 20 percent by mimicking and 70 percent by your own experience And you just mentioned also the role of universities in there But do you think that those percentage are Static or do you think that they change during somebody's career? Yeah, that's a very good observation in my presentation that no doubt all of you have already watched I do refer to that important observation It is not a static thing and I also mentioned in that presentation that that was based on a survey that was done in the 80s when Managers in organizations were Interviewed and so the question was where did they get their information and knowledge from? And for that purpose that is a very reasonable you know ratio But definitely if you are a young kid school training education in school is also Um, it's also um, it's it's perhaps much more important than the 10 percent because the school education Uh teaches you how to learn it teaches you as a young person how to Uh observe identify and appreciate Knowledge and how to Um how to accommodate that knowledge in your own behavior so learning how to How to learn is as a very crucial element In our life and that is done primarily when we are young at schools goes a very crucial element in that process So the 10 20 70s a very helpful concept But yes, so that's more at the level of professionals And for young people things are different before this we have to have them We have to acquire a frame the mind frame on how we should be learning. That is the fundament of all So if I understand you correctly Geed that you're also saying that even if you're very experienced in the end, it's still good to also Make sure that you sometimes pay attention to this 10 percent So that you can again increase actually the knowledge that You may use in your day-to-day work Yes, absolutely and the 10 percent of classroom teaching is actually Crucial also to when it is very valuable when it comes at a precise time Right, because then it can help to up to to interpret what we have learned through experience in the 70 percent And it can help us to get ready for the for the mimicking and for the other learning modalities that we as assess and if you then Again, I took that from your presentation there You also distinguish actually capacity development not only as teaching as teaching in the classroom But you also look at capacity development at four different levels. Could you say a few words about those different levels? Yes, surely That's one of the things that we in our water sector have learned over the past three decades in all the in all the Dialogues that took place In the in the symposia and that is the recognition that um the knowledge and so the capacity to act is Present in the mind of individuals of a professional or a scientist or a ngo staff member or indeed as the knowledge at a household mother processes when she teaches her children to Take care of of sanitary measures of washing hands to start with so each individual has knowledge and we have to Know that I have to work with that that that that recognition Secondly, you know, many people together make an organization So organizations are necessary as you know ministries or what utility or university? and so together A good organization adds value over and beyond the knowledge that each individual Contributes so the way the organization is structured how it is managed is crucial to to add this value and make the organization indeed performing Effective in its in its in its operations and many organizations to get it and make you know the water sector that you know what we call the enabling environment and indeed So the regulatory systems the regulators So the ministers the associations of water utilities also the fiscal system can be very crucial in Making sure that the water investments are done properly. So also at that level Also at that level enabling environment is Indeed representing a body of knowledge and Finally the environment operates in Society and so and as I mentioned already in the beginning the house The mother in the house There's also the the taxpayer the Person who uses what spills water who votes uh all that all these Communities have to have knowledge and have to be knowledgeable about how to Decide on and work together for a sustainable future. So we have to work on these four levels okay, uh, thank you Guy and um, I'm going to challenge our tech host a little bit because I'm going to Defer a little bit from an agreed schedule that we had with her. So let's see if she's able to follow us Uh, so ana, uh, is it possible for you actually to put up the slides? Introducing the symposium is the the different tracks Let me see if I can open them This time So just give us a minute to So I'm now starting to share the screen And let me know when you are able to see it I see the screen And could you move up to the first slide? So, uh, yes so, um Okay, can you go further up to this? Yes, thank you. And I would like uh, I will briefly I explained this already to the public so I will Run through them. Maybe you could click once. Yes, this is what I said that we have those nine different tracks here With all the different issues there. I already mentioned water financing and big data So please join any of the the tracks or have a look at the webinars if they are safe But besides the tracks, uh, we also have two panel discussions One on capacity for change management and transition and one accelerating south south collaboration The search important part is the next slide Anna can go there art nine keynote speeches from the the webinar And I just pick up some of them. Uh, one of them is a very practical one from the case of Sudan. That's the search bullet point Also, we'll look a little bit at other issues like The presentation from Charles force marty towards water security And we're looking at the global sanitation graduate school partnership from the minor So there's a quite a big mixture in the keynotes. So we hope you can also join those And then the next component of the symposium Can you go to the next slide to Anna? Is the two main outputs in there? I would like to ask your attention for so what we hope to get out of the symposium at the end With your contributions in there. First of all the what we call the delft agenda Um, that will be constructed actually from the different Topics that I just mentioned to you and your participation and will be discussed by a high level panel Uh on the fourth of tune. So I would like to invite you to also join that And have a look at that webinar when we will have that and See what they are going to say about our agenda that we're going to propose for them And the second outputs of the symposium will be reports and for that we will send around the draft again based on your inputs For your comments, and we try to finalize that by middle of jula So Anna, can you go to the next slide? Um For all of the sessions we have an approach in mind and we use three steps there And the reasoning behind that is the first step. What is the technical problem? So for example in the drinking water utilities, if you have no budget, how can we expand your network? And the second step is what capability needs to be strengthened in the institution So how can you engage with customers to raise income? Is that by what pricing or is that in another way that you can overcome this technical problem And the third one is how can we develop this capability? What process do we need? What instruments do we need? And I was not just giving an example of a technical problem But of course that could also be a social problem or a governance problem But this is the sort of sequence that we think will help to develop this of the agenda Next slide, please With that I would like to Ask Anna as well to start up the video from a bus Both who's the deputy major for the city of delft And while Anna is starting this message We think it's still nice that you're welcome here and We hope that One day you will also be able to join us in life Which is one of the things that bus will also invite you to do But for the time being I think he has some nice work to share with you on the video My name is pas volderecht and as a deputy mayor for the city of delft It's an honor for me to welcome you digitally to the sixth conference of ihg on From water capacity development to implementation science And normally it would be of an honor and a pleasure for me to welcome you physically in our beautiful city hall That you see behind me at the moment. I can only invite you to visit our city at a later moment We would be pleased and honored to welcome you And I hope that when you visit our city you discover that delft is a truly unique combination of history and technology Our history is very visible here in our inner city with the city hall originally dating from 13th century But also through our close connections to the royal family of the netherlands William of orange the forefather of our nation lived in delft and unfortunately also was killed here in delft But also from our close ties to of course delft blue an innovative way of making porcelain and famous dutch painters as johannes vermere and peter de hoog And also on our technology site our history is rich The first microscope was invented here in delft a few centuries ago Wi-Fi was discovered here in delft a few decades ago And also in the current state of time We are On the forefront of a few fields in in a lot of different sites of science quantum meganics for example, but also in your field of interest water management we are Hosted to a few unique institutions like of course ihe but also to know deltaris and of course a to delft Which provides us in a unique role when there's a truly wicked complex problem on the field of water management Governments national but also international come to delft for advice And what we need at such times as a policy maker is not only Knowledge we also need our experts to advise us on how to cope with different strategies How to cope with different interests and i hope that the program that is in a truly remarkable way Put in an incriminately fast way totally online Which i truly respect and compliment to organizing committee for I hope that this program helps you to become such an expert an expert that not only have the knowledge to advise us as policy makers But also have the knowledge to implement the necessary solutions to tackle the big problems that we are going to face I think that the current corona the covet situation Brings a big challenge. I mentioned the total transference for this conference to an online setting Which is truly remarkable, but I also hope that we will be able to transfer it into a chance that we See it as a start for an online community of all kinds of water experts experts scientists policy makers to bring more Sometimes different disciplines together and create a strong group that is able to face the big challenges of the field of water management That we have to tackle as a world in unity Again, I wish you a lot of pleasure at the common the common conference at the coming days And it would be an honor to welcome you to our beautiful city in a later moment. Thank you You can start again Okay, thank you very much But also for this open invitation for everybody to come and join us later on Hopefully this year and otherwise next year here in Delft Um, what I would like to do is I would like to present you just a few slides uh on setting the scene So, uh, I would again ask Anna if she could open the PowerPoint presentation and um Maybe you can go yes, maybe we'll go to the next slide So this is a slide actually coming from uh the latest water economic form report from 2020 And what it shows to you actually on the vertical axis is the impact and on the horizontal axis the likelihood of potential prices that may happen And as you can see uh up to the the right hand corner All of them are related To natural disaster for almost all of them with the exception maybe from cyber attacks in human-made environmental disasters but um all of them are also linked to water and uh water prices itself is also There but also climate action failure will have its impact on the environment. So the water sector is is under stress One that I think may increase in coming time is those those natural disasters Also, I think in the present period that are in are the infectious diseases Which you see on the left hand side of this A corner and I think that will move to the right And maybe also upwards both an impact and likely looked after the experience we had with covid 19 and you go to the next slide And uh to uh another thing that keeps on changing is of course the temperature rise that we're seeing Maybe we will have some positive impacts of the corona virus because of the emissions that bring down But as soon as the economy if that will start in the same way We will see an increase in emissions again So a challenge for us both from the water sector but other sectors is how can we make a difference and how can we ensure That we have a world and organize ourselves have a society that accommodates those changes and helps us actually To achieve a reduction of temperature increase and carbon emissions And have water available for everybody on the bill You go to the next slide Um If you look at that and we'll come back to those questions You see quite often and I hear have the example of the synthesis report from sdg6 for water and sanitation Please move to the next slide, Anna you see in this report that Capacity development is quite an urgent issue He pieces a slide showing some of the 10 main goals coming out of this report And what it says is only limited progress can be made and any investment Is at risk without developing the necessary long-term human and institutional capacity Which is also what the gig was mentioning when we were having our short discussion before And you will see that this will come back later on Could you move to the next slide? Other issues where you also see the same issue mentioned here is for example from the sdg7 team Strengthening the means of implementation and revitalize the global partnership for sustainable development And you see that target 17.9 capacity development is mentioned as well What I noticed in the presentation from claudia paul weusel during the budapest water summit from last year She also mentions that implementation is the bottleneck actually in improving your governance in the water sector And she was giving example of south africa What I wanted to state with these slides is that Often capacity development is mentioned. It's needed But not so often you see how that then should be done And also one of the questions that are already shown by the public here by tia was How do you finance that so we'll come back to discussions later on and can you move to the next slide Anna So this is actually where I would like to invite Who is professor here at itc delft has been working for the world bank Meanwhile and Before that again, he was professor at itc delft. He switched topics slightly Going a little bit from a more environmental engineering Towards what a capacity development is doing So please could you explain briefly what you have seen happening in capacity development over the last 30 years All right, thank you so much um, I aren't written in my presentation that We as water specialists are very good at analyzing The physics of water or the services that you are much less familiar with Understanding how institutions function and even less familiar with You know, how then can we strengthen improve the performance institutions? so uh in this It's light that you should now have on your screen So you see on on the left hand side. We know there's a problem It's articulated. We know what should be done. We're always talking about what should be done The government should do And then on the right hand side, okay There the problem is solved. That is the intuitive approach next Thank you. So that we forget that in developing but also in Rich countries that there are implementing institutions in the middle. So they have to Go from the left to the right. They have to do it They are composed of the style of their operational practices and protocols and their management style Next and so the development of capacities and precisely how we can Interact with these implementing institutions by developing disseminating And then making sure that knowledge is getting absorbed in these institutions So we educate individuals would also look at how the institutions perform so Why is that necessary? Well in the rich and the poorer countries we face the same challenges next Next piece so first of all, there's more complexity because there are more regulations and environmental regulations, for example They are necessary. There's also a need for more integration of disciplines and approaches We can work also much more effectively with local governments NGOs, communities, etc. Next one It's also that we have to face a continuous but also a very rapid change in our working environment next week and That also pertains of course the climate change but also demographic development And so that leads to more uncertainty because it's more difficult to predict what is going to happen In 10 years or 20 years from now and we have to invest now. We make the have to make the decisions to invest at this moment next piece So that means that as professionals or scientists or whatever as organizations as communities We must keep learning to adapt to this next piece So that's now look at the The you know what that would mean. So I already talked about the four levels. So we have the individual level individuals have to be educated trained Secondly the organizational level because many individuals make up an organization Which has also procedures and operational practices given capital and then they operate in this enabling environment that has rules and staff and capacity Um, and then finally they operate in the commission society that also has culture behavior and capacity in these next one So what does it mean for organizations? Indeed in my presentation. I elaborate a bit more on this So first of all, there must be acceptance to learn. So if we even organization if the What utility fields they are doing already a perfect job, you know, then there's no point in Right, so and how to understand, you know, what can be improved for some money term and even in the evaluations or framework Is a very helpful tool for that Berkeley clearly technical training be it on engineering or be it on accounting or on communication with with the Customers of the utility. So these are technical trainings Fourthly, there are also higher level aggregate non-pognitive skills and attitudes like on leadership or teamwork that are necessary to be to be strengthened. Fifthly An organization can structure itself can organize experience learning through what it is going to do and it can learn the lessons so it becomes a learning organization The sixth point is the partnership. That's a very useful way to engage with peers with Colleagues and learn from them Seventhly, an organization different from a individual has a human resources management. So the boss can Decide on which skills which expertise to Attract to recruit and how to motivate staff to do a better job and finally It's also a matter of process and I referred to Workback Fritsch, who is also talking later in the symposium on the problem-driven iterative adaptation So it is a system of doing Start learning by doing so whilst we do you also learn and you incorporate lessons Stepwise and that helps us to build implementation capacity and interest in the delivery And I think that's the one that was my last one Yes, thank you very much G and before Coming back to you. I would like to ask Anna if she could put on the slide explaining a little bit to the public How they can post questions Yes, so now it's up Um, I will should I also write it in the chat Eddie? Yes, please so if You look at the chat box Anna will put the message there how you can ask the questions and she will open the chat box So you are asked actually to Have a couple of questions there. We're trying to do it in blocks of five questions And see what we can then answer and then we switch to the next block of five questions But before we do that, I would also like Anna while you can post the questions So please go ahead with that and to open the first poll because Um, I would like to find out a little bit about how you think about some of the issues that key was just presenting So the first poll question is What do you consider the main success factor for implementation of innovations? And Anna while you're putting up the poll Yes, so the poll is now above the chat and ready and open for participation of the audience so Okay, while you fill in the poll, I would like to ask one more question to G if I'm allowed Um, and that is that uh, one of the first questions actually that popped up when we started the session here Was, uh, okay. We agree on capacity development. We need that but but how how do we finance finance that and how can we speed it up So where do we get the financing from? That helps us to speed up capacity development on top actually of the present Right that is the uh, the most fundamental question I suppose and We have to Think, uh, you know in in some more depth about this. So maybe some of you may have already suggestions for that but what I would certainly Recommend is that we engage more intensively with Those agencies that have money and so that means for example when we talk about water multilateral banks, so adb world bank afghan development banks are major players They finance finance programs Not only infrastructure, but also other programs and It's important that they also are very um Aware of the importance of capacity development and as a matter of fact the many of these banks they feel that is important But it's always then a trade-off. You know, are you going to put 10 million? In you know more in the capacity development Or are we going to use that 10 million to have another thousand? Uh tap points in the water supply system that we are financing So that kind of trade-off is a very difficult one. But yes, so I I would recommend that we We ratchet up ratchet up the Conversation with these agencies to make sure that enough funding for capacity development Activities is being secured. Now that said for my own experience From my own experience, I also know that sometimes these development banks in a Program investment they recommend to have more training of local governments or farmers and But the ministers of finance who are the ones who have to you know agree on the on the loan Or even on the grant they they are reluctant and they say no, we already know this, you know We only want the money from the bank For the investment because that's something that we can demonstrate as something we can show and again, that is what I talked about in the beginning. There is this kind of natural natural inclination to first look at the physical physical products that come out of a program or a project so that I think is a Quite a challenge. So it means that we have to do the advocacy uh, using the metrics to demonstrate that Investing in capacity development makes good sense makes economic sense makes financial sense And the second one I would recommend is that we have to become smarter at how we organize Sectoral programs or research programs and that we have much more Uh, thought about how to How to how to design such a program to make it more adaptable to make it more iterative and so that we have also a explicit learning pro process in the implementation of that Program, so I think these are two elements But I don't think it makes much sense to go to the minister say I need 10 million because I'm going to do capacity development It only works well if it is part of the Implementation program Okay, thank you very much Guy and um while while you've been asking questions Then we have also seen your reactions actually to the poll What we see from there is that uh Yeah, the one that you selected most was culture and willingness as being main for implementation of innovations And the second one following that is governance with 21 There was also a question there asked by the mean About why did we put culture and willingness together? Of course, we could separate them as well But willingness and cultures sometimes are related because Sometimes this in a certain specific cultural setting It's it's It's partly related to willingness, but we could separate the two but it gives a bit of a clue where things are My main conclusion is that it's not the technical state. So it's it's more about the more social sites Especially the willingness that that is there and this is about awareness raising While I would like to ask Anna to put up the second poll I would also try to answer some of the question sets that came in One of the questions that came in To you, I Assure that women are also Taken up in the process of capacity development in the water sector Yes, yes, absolutely. So um women are the key actors when it comes to Water management and sanitation in the household and the immediate neighborhood I don't have a very immediate question the first thing I want to would like to emphasize is that Each program or activity of capacity development has to be site specific it's case specific And so in in many cases indeed when you talk about sanitation or investing water supply or In in water around the household Drain it The women have a very crucial role to play. So there My assumption would be that it is Absolutely essential to and make sure that a program and investment, for example Would have mechanisms to get the Women in fault how to do that. We cannot elaborate on that here. But it is definitely an essential thing on the other hand when you have a project or if the document has an intention to Bring water from a to b and or store water Then maybe You cannot do everything and so there may be a necessity to Focus on all the elements in capacity development for all our target groups that may be deemed to be of more priority Certainly generically I believe that there is a generic need for continuing The capacity doesn't repeat by the work of Awareness raising in general by NGOs for example in rural communities or the fact that Discovery channel is Broadcasting every week something about water management and sanitation, etc. So there's also these are also very important carriers or the or the press So these These initiatives these programs are very important and yes absolutely women have to be a very definite target audience Not only as a way to to You know to to to transfer knowledge, but primarily perhaps also as a way to Get them involved in in the in the debate So I think that would be my first Five cents of wisdom or for this question and I'm sure there's much more to be said about it. Okay. Thank you very much and then looking at the the chat box here and Deanna is saying that it's important If you want to assure innovation uptake that you look at windows of opportunity for this uptake And I think I fully agree with that Would be quite interesting if we could recognize those windows. So so when do we see that and when? Should we then push a certain innovation? So feedback on those would also be quite interesting, but maybe Guy in your Huge experience. Have you seen such windows or do you have? Examples of when you have seen big windows of opportunity to push the certain innovation Absolutely, and I think Deanna Torres is Clearly somebody who has worked in in practice And and it has experienced the first hand that it is important to To to be ready at the right moment And indeed it's it's it's part of the of our expertise as capacity developers to To to to analyze When the moment has come to Propose something concrete and to engage with you know the government or local governments or the Or the NGOs or the community. So It's very important to to do that because otherwise you're just preaching against the you know the black wall and At the same time Just don't keep waiting until the window opens Uh chance prepare chance favors a prepared mind. So if you are already ready with a Program with a good proposal with a mechanism to get started At the moment when the wrist do no open window yet Then that does not mean it will never come it will come at some point It will be a reform program or there will be a change in the political atmosphere Uh art will be a new boss and then The program that you have in your mind that you have ready will then be picked up So again, it's important to start working as we speak now And not wait until the window opens but keep monitoring when windows may be open And if you are able to nudge that window a bit more open, uh the better so Okay, thank you very much. Then maybe A question of a retreat kim waga is what is the pressure for capacity development? But I would like to ask which could you elaborate a little bit on What you mean by threshold Then we can come back to your question Meanwhile, I would like to pose a question to the again. Can you elaborate the M&E to identify the weakness for organizations? and yes And We don't know yet. We don't yet have a very um robust Framework for wondering the evaluation when it comes to capacity Right that is perhaps point one And the second point is that Again capacity development is a very case specific location specific time specific Thing and so we should not try to to solve all the problems and build all the capacities at the same time. That's not going to work so monitoring evaluation On the capacity on the capabilities is should be wrapped into a monitoring and evaluation Framework for a investment program for example or for a policy for a policy implementation program of a government or local municipality or utility or NGO and So some of the indicators that we can identify could be for example How many you can do surveys for example, we have 20 municipalities that should be able to do something or to understand something so you can have a survey and Check on whether they know how to do it you know, or you can also check whether the municipalities have a protocol that reflects that knowledge right, so if if you know utilities or municipalities have to Generate income for a water service You can ask the professional you know what it means income generation and how you do that in the professor Yes, but then look at how the municipality is organized There's no protocol mechanism to make that happen and to follow up on the income generation Then it's not going to work. So you have to You have to look at the different level that I said and Taylor made it for the specific environment specific question at hand Okay. Thank you very much. And The question to the tech host if you can help me to scroll down a little bit on the questions That's while Would I should I close the poll Eddie? Yes, the first poll you may open the second one if you like the second one is open Oh, I don't see the second one on my screen Uh, the second one is uh on the top of the chat. I can also display it in the middle of the screen if you like Yes, if you could do that for a second, that would be nice to give some feedback there And um I'm coming back to the questions after that So it's which level do you see the biggest need for capacity development? and here The the fourth level that was described by the communities and society as seen as the biggest one is 34 percent and then I think the second one in there is an aiming environment And I think that's also a little bit to do what we just discussed about those windows opportunities one of the remarks that was made also in the chat box about that was that The donors so the funding agencies also play a big role in the windows of opportunities And I agree to that. I think by that it's also quite important that this engagement from both sides is Say the the public in general The communities but also the donor organizations is quite important to help to create such a window of opportunity to See if a certain innovation can be really outscaled to a large area Um, I just pick up another question there from the chat box And that's where Adam is asking looking at the risk landscape of the world economic form in light of coronavirus Is this a sign for lacking capacity in judging risks? Good question. Um, I think it's uh, the coronavirus was indeed Maybe an unforeseen risk that the people fill in the uh questionnaire from the world economic form is a very broad public and actually they're not experts in viruses, so I'm not 100 sure if you could blame them for doing that but at least the knowledge about such Viruses is or at least was not well known to the broader public And I think that has changed now. So I also assume that people will experience that differently And um, what Ellen is saying about it is experts were warning for years about the pandemic But it seems political and business leaders not only misjudge the likelihood with also the impact I think you're right, but I also think that That is also maybe the case with other crises that are also on the same figure that often Maybe in in an individual communication Of course political politicians will acknowledge a certain risk But then translate that into actions. That's quite a difficult one And how you can deal with that is is not an easy one. I think that's where a big challenge is also For us also on how we can develop capacity actually to acknowledge Those risks but also to see how you can then implement measures to adjust those risks Then um The question on the financing side what proportion of the operational budget of a nation should be set aside for capacity development I must say that I find that a very difficult question. Do you have any experience or advice there? No, no, I think that that is a that would be an interesting debate with many more people with a lot different experiences and you know disciplinary backgrounds and it goes Down to the basic question in how much money Of the scarce scarce money that is available can be set aside for education You know to start with and I think that is a important crucial crucial debate Uh, so at the level of the nation I I wouldn't dare to give you any advice, but it deserves a good discussion And thank you then, uh, maybe just a short remark that I don't want to withhold from Yugi is from uh, Teya She's saying that IOC and S&P have developed some qualitative monitoring instruments to Evaluate actually capacity development and I know that in your extensive presentation You discussed some others, but uh, did you say a few words about that? No, thank you very much for that contribution. It's absolutely right. We do already have some some some frameworks on some sets of indicators that we should look at and they are very useful Of course also again useful for certain arenas for water supply google sanitation for you know flood management um We need to continue to work on this But as you rightly say we already have quite some valuable workable frameworks to that Thank you. Then I pulled two questions together and remarked one of caroline another one of diana one is about An example from donors who are willing to fund hand pumps but not small systems and What she's saying is that we need to change their view that hand pumps is still in the solution in rural areas Related to that is uh, the remark from diana saying that political ability to steer Conversations and insert issues on water investment agendas is central to increase changes for implementation And I think both of those are indeed quite important and Again agi would you like to add to those remarks that I think are indeed crucial for capacity development? I don't think I have much to add these comments are absolutely correct and That is definitely important is that that we keep Putting the issue on the agenda We should maybe not necessarily expect that immediately everybody will get very enthusiastic and put a lot of money in it But the better our proposition on how the capacity development can be incorporated in programs in policy preparation and implementation The better we are able to demonstrate that there will be a measurable quantifiable impact the more Convincing we our story is going to be And as diana also says, you know, we have to always be around and and put it on the agenda and keep working on that Then a question from hank and he's saying that in the list of needs for capacity development I missed the private sector is that not also an important sector and I fully agree Um, I don't think the list was complete But I fully agree that the private sector plays an crucial role in there I also think that Both maybe private sector currency for the public sector, but that's also the other way around and I think if you look at scp 17 There there's also a big push actually to bring those two together and see how you can further improve oba By also looking at a trade and I think there the engagement with the private sector is also I think Quite important to achieve those targets Then a question from Peter cookie on culture context specific and innovations who determines what is an innovation That's also a good question. I think there are quite some different definitions in there I think innovations are not just a technical innovation and innovation is also how you can implement an innovation So it also has a lot to do with sculpture and the social context of that. So I think that's a quite good remark from from peter then zoltan is saying that And that will be the last question that we'll address here is the level of Capacity development strongly depends on the technical scientific level of the topic For example using high tech tools has to focus on the individuals and they will put the technology through to the institutions, etc Maybe a short remark from your site on that one Again, you know capacity development has to be tailor made for the particular question at hand and indeed if we have a very Very high technology type of Innovation, sorry peter for that But if we have such a kind of innovation, you know introducing it for example Then definitely there will be much more need to have individuals staff but also through the education system in universities There will be a need to to work More at the individual level for the individual education and training. So at the same time also it requires organizational structures in order to make sure that the it facilities are being properly Used and interested in that requires a change in the organizational structure But yes, so again definitely for certain types of challenges we need to do more on the side of Education and individual For others it's more on the organization or the enabling environment side Thank you D and I think with that I would like to end the question and answer at least In the live session that we're now participating in but I would also Invite you actually to continue posing questions and we will Engage with you and I would like to ask Anna if she could put a slide on the screen how you can do this And while Anna is putting the slide on the screen I would like already to thank both Yourself the public as well as he sitting here to also honor our tech host for this webinar Please Anna, can you explain a bit how people can stay engaged? Yes, so after this webinar the recording is going to be posted in captive symposium platform itself And also on youtube To direct your questions To the speakers I would advise you to go to the post in the platform in the conference platform itself And post and continue the conversations below in comments Okay, thank you very much Anna and with that again I see some other quite nice questions But we'll come back to that outside of this symposium I would like to thank you all and I do hope to see you back in one of the other tracks or during the plenaries I'm looking forward to engage with you developing the delft agenda for the capacity development in the water sector Thank you very much And see you next time