 I think we will get started. I'm Rola Khalaf. I'm the deputy editor at the FT. The question before us today is, how can policymakers move beyond urgency and towards a strategic partnership between Europe and its southern neighbors? It's a question that I'm sorry to say I've been hearing for the past 20 years. My first job at the FT was as North Africa correspondent. And back then, the same question was asked mainly about North Africa. If you fast forward 20 years, the biggest migration crisis to hit Europe was from another corner of the Mediterranean from Syria. It was an external shock that was unexpected. And although many would argue that it should have been contained much earlier on, it was also the worst refugee crisis that Europe has seen in more than 40 years. Although the repercussions of that crisis are still playing out, today the focus has shifted to Africa with initiatives in Europe that are aimed at helping with economic development in the hope that young people aspiring for a better life will find that future in their home country. We've got a terrific panel for you. Paolo Gentiloni is the prime minister of Italy. Yomi Osi Banjo, vice president of Nigeria. Alexis Tsipras, prime minister of Greece. And William Lacy, swing the director general of the International Organization for Migration. But I want to do something a bit unconventional today and start not with a panelist, but with a member of the audience. Victor Ochien from the African Youth Initiative Network and also a young global leader grew up in a camp for displaced people in Uganda. Victor, can I ask you to start by telling us your story? Stand up. Thank you. My name is Victor Ochien. I was born and raised in Uganda. And I am the director for African Youth Initiative Network. And being a child born and raised in conflict, I am one of the witnesses of the first unaccounted of injustice of conflict. But that triggered in me the aspiration to do more to answer the question that I've been looking for the answer all along as a child. Through my organization, we've been working to promote peace in Africa, mobilizing children who cut up in conflict from different parts of the continent, but above all, giving them a voice. Through my work, we've moved around the continent. And last year, a story that I wanted to share with you, I got a call from a young man from Mali. He said, my name is Momo Du. Can you call me back? I called him back. And then said, can you give me your email address? I gave him my email address. And then I'm sending an email right now. And he sent an email. I looked at the email. There was a picture of two boys standing in this picture. I called him back from Uganda. And I said, what is it? And he said, in the left on the red t-shirt is my brother, who left home three weeks ago to go through Libya to Europe. When he was seen in Libya, he made a call and said, we need you to send us $1,800 US dollars, in addition to $3,200 that I came up with, because they won $5,000 US dollars for me to cross the sea. But the last one week we've been trying to reach, we're calling him, his phone is off. Since I contacted to find out if there's any African youth who understands our situation can contact somebody. We have called you if you know of any contact in Libya or anywhere you can help us find our brother. Through my network, I called contacts in Greece and then they referred to me to Libya. And I talked to this guy in Libya. And they asked me, you are from Uganda. Do you want to go to Europe? I said, no. I want to stay home, I want to stay in Africa. Say, what do you want? We don't have so many customers from Uganda. I said, I am here asking if you know of this name in the list of the people who have gone through your support. And then they looked through it, was googling about me and said, oh, I thought you were security. You are just a piece, man. When you look through it, I said, unfortunately, the guy's name is in the list of those in the boat that did not make it. Unfortunately, I cannot help you. It's normal. Wondering what to do, on what to reply to this young man in Mali looking for his brother. I asked him, do you really tell them the difficulties, the challenges they will face when they are traveling during their counties? And the guy said, yes. We explained to them that you have 99% chances of death, only 1% chance of survival. Are you willing to pay your $5,000? They pay. And I asked, have you ever troubled yourself? Said, yes, I traveled several times, but twice, I nearly died. So I do not go anymore, but I send people every day. It left me wondering, if a young African can know that I have 99% chances of death, but still up as the best option. So the question is, what is the political storm at home? The storm of poverty, the storm of injustice, that forced these people to leave home and seek to escape the continent. It comes up to the political question. The same, how many are dying in the desert every new day trying to escape home? What we are seeing in Libya is a manifestation of what's going on in our countries because across the continent, prisons in Africa are full of young people. What can we do to address this? So I thought I should share the story, because the question is, how long are we going to keep mobilizing resources to rescue them in the sea? Because that life jacket being given in the sea is good, but could have been given on land in the form of a different opportunity to help them stay home. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, sir. Prime Minister Gentiloni, do you think that we are now living through a false sense of security? The level of migration to Europe, compared to 2005, it's really leveled off. I think in 2017, the numbers are have 170,000 compared to a million two years ago. Is this a false sense of security? Is the problem in your mind still as big? Well, the problem is big. It is very, I'm not proud of this, sincerely, because I just met for other issues this morning, the Lebanese Prime Minister Hariri. And if you look to the numbers that Lebanon has of refugees and migrants, refugees mostly, you can't imagine. It's a quarter of the population. But you perfectly know that we had even relevant countries in our countries that decided to leave EU, perhaps mostly because of the debate on the risk of invasion of migrants. And this was perhaps one of the main reasons of the decision that obviously we all respect of the British people to leave EU. So the issue remains very relevant. Italy has a traditional position, for example, of actively saving human lives at sea and accepts all those that are saved in our ports. But I assure you that this is one of the more costly political decision that, in these days, a government can take. Well, it's certainly played out in Germany, it's playing out in your own elections. So at the same time, what you were saying to us is absolutely correct. In the medium and long term, what we have to do is very clear, give a contribution to the African development as far as Italy is concerned. The central, the so-called central Mediterranean route, but also the western Mediterranean route, is mostly composed by migrants, more than refugees, and Africa, more than the Middle East. There is a lot of people coming from Bangladesh, but mostly is Africa. But how long will it take to change the economic conditions in Africa to reduce this phenomenon? If you look to the story of the border between Mexico and US, decades to reach a situation that is now flat from Mexicans and Americans going from one side to the others. So we will need a long time. We should be committed on migration for the next 10 or 20 years from Africa. So we have the strategic issue that we were saying, so public aid, investment, the future of African economy. But we have also an issue that has to be tackled now. And the issue is to try to transfer the migration flow from criminality and total irregular flow gradually to regular and safe flows. Is it possible? It is possible, absolutely possible. We have to disrupt the networks of the criminals to strengthen the structure of the almost failed African states that are not able to control their own territories and to gradually accept through human corridors to systems of quotas. There are many ways to do this regular flow of migrants from Africa to Europe. I want to come back to that. But I wanted Prime Minister Tsipras to comment on how credible is this idea of a Marshall plan for Africa. So it is difficult to say how credible it is, because you know, you're asking me. So I think that it could be preferable in this panel to not be me and Paolo, but maybe other leaders from the North, from the North especially. Because you know very well that me and Paolo will try it a lot in order to convince our partners in the European Union that it is necessary to face this problem, not as a Mediterranean problem that has to do with Greece and Italy, but as a European one and as an international one. So I'm afraid that we never managed to hit the roots of the problem. We are trying a lot. We are trying, and especially Greece was in a very difficult position in the epicenter of two parallel crises, the finance, the debt crisis, but also in the epicenter of a huge humanitarian crisis that has to do with these roots, these flows, the bigger flows after the Second World War, migration flows and refugee flows. So we managed to handle this difficult situation with dignity and the same time with a humanitarian way. And the same happened with Italy and with thanks to Paolo efforts. But the problem in Europe now is that there are a lot of countries that they believe that if the problem is not in their backyards, it's not their problem. And this is an existential problem for Europe as a whole. Because if we believe that the European Union is an organization, Alacard, and somebody has to have only benefits and not obligation, this is a problem for our future, for our common future. In some ways, the issue is also deeper politically because there are a lot of politicians who are winning elections on a ticket of opposition to migration. Absolutely. It's deepened. It has to do also with the internal political situation in Europe because I believe that the result of the austerity policies create difficulties in our societies. And now the main political problem is the rise of artistic and nationalistic forces, populist forces in Europe, that they do not believe in our common goals, in our common values, and they do not believe in the idea of European Union. So first of all, we have to tackle the financial crisis in our countries. And to cancel, to stop these inefficient austerity policies with a growth agenda in order to promote social cohesion. Secondly, it is crucial to have a common migration policy. And third, I think it is also crucial, it is necessary to have an open-minded, progressive policy in relation with the African countries in order to try to solve the problems when the problems are born. So I think that the problem is not the flows. It's not these people that are trying to find a new life in Europe. But the problem is why these people cannot live in their countries. So the Marshall Plan, I think that it is necessary to finance the African countries. We made a lot of steps with these combats, combats with these initiatives in Malta, the Malta process, and so on. But it is necessary to be more brave. And of course, this is not something that has to do with Italy and Greece. This is nothing that has to do only with the southern European countries that were in a very close communication, also in the European Union with this southern summit meeting that we created the permanent communication. But it is necessary to be in front of the main agenda of the European Union and not only of the European Union. And it's necessary for politicians to be brave about it because I looked at recent data that suggested that migration is still the number one concern across Europe. And that surprised me two years after the crisis. But I want to turn to you, Vice President. There's been a lot of talk in recent years about Africa rising, much more rapid economic development. And yet, quite a bit of it has been more rhetoric than reality. President Kondev Ivory Coast talks about Africa replacing China as the factory of the world. How realistic is that? And how do you look at this Marshall Plan for Africa? Is this something that you think is credible? OK, let me begin with the Africa rising narrative and all of the possibilities around Africa replacing China as the factory of the world. I think that probably is in the natural cause of things. I mean, even now, we see that as wage costs go up in China, Africa is becoming the obvious choice for sunset industries and those kinds of things. So it's clear that that will happen. And a lot of initiatives, there are quite a few initiatives in that direction already. There are quite a few countries that I know that Ivory Coast is, Nigeria is with the development of special economic zones and all that, with partnerships coming from China. I think those sorts of arrangements will very quickly absorb labor because, obviously, we're looking at growing populations in Africa. The projections, as you know, in the next 20 years or so, I mean, we're looking at a youth population that's probably 70% of Africa's population will be young people. And Africa will probably be about the third. I think the largest population and all that. But I think that the critical thing is to see that we cannot deal with this in any quick way. There are no quick fixes to this. And I took the point that Paulo made that there really isn't any quick fix. We've got to look at this long term because, clearly, there is no way that African economies will ramp up quickly enough to be able to meet all of the expectations of, especially all of the projections around population. So this is going to be a long walk. And I think that is important for all of us to see this as such. The martial plan, the idea of a martial plan, is to me, in some senses, bringing all solutions to what really is a dynamic problem. I think that what Africa needs and what a lot of the southern neighbors of the Europeans need are fairer trade policies and a cocktail of policies that center on job creation in those locations. And I think that. You want more investment than aid. Yes, certainly, by far more investments, by far more investment. But I think more thinking through those ideas and policies that create opportunities. What you need is a real partnership between Europe and Africa. That's the way you want Europe to be thinking. Because I don't think that aid has worked through the years. I don't think it has worked. And I think that there is a bit more, and I think there's a need for possibly just much more commitment to the whole process. I mean, there have been a multiple processes sent on several others. But I certainly think that if we look at this as a major global problem, and when you look around and look at extremism, terrorism, and all of the various things that are exported along with legal migration and all of that, I think that it is a global problem. And it really does deserve a global solution. And the way to look at that is by coming together to reason this thing through. But frankly, I don't think it's those sort of Marshall plan type of the shelf type solutions. I think it's more nuanced than that. William Lacey-Swing, I'd like you to give us a critical assessment of European policy right now on migration. Thank you very much. First of all, it's an honor to be here, particularly in this very august panel here. I'm very humbled to be part of it. Thank you very much. Look, all the 28 member states, European Union are members of IOM. And the European Union is probably our largest donor right now. We have constant dialogue. We have great relationships. But frankly, I think that it's already been, I think, said by our distinguished prime ministers that what is lacking right now is a common, long-term, multifaceted, European Union migration and asylum policy. It's simply eluded. European Union, the commissions have worked hard at it. It's a little bit like a locomotive going down the tracks, but the wheels have fallen off some of the cars. Not everybody is on board. And the 1.5 million people who came north in 2015, 2016 is about less than 1.5% of European Union's population of 550 million. It should basically have been a manageable issue. And I give great credit and admiration to both the governments of Italy and Greece because they've had to bear a large brunt of the responsibility for managing the numbers coming in. As you mentioned, 4.5 million population in Lebanon with 1.5 million Syrians and 500,000 Palestinians. So it is manageable. And we've never given enough credit to the six neighbors of Libya and the four neighbors of Syria for keeping their borders open, what we call humanitarian border management. You keep the people as long as they need to be there, temperate protective status. So first of all, it's the lack of a policy. And I think one has to continue to work toward that objective that's a long term. Secondly, I think there's a degree of refugee amnesia in Europe to use Javier Solano's phrase. I remember 61 years ago, 200,000 Hungarians fled to open arms in Austria and former Yugoslavia. But that was the past. Our organization was founded in 1951 to take Europeans ravaged by the Second World War to safe shores and new lives. So there's a little bit of that where we have to come back and say, how do we then share responsibility? And thirdly, I think there's a real psychological issue. I mentioned this to some of the press this morning. There's a psychological adjustment. If you have peopled the world for three centuries and now for three decades, you're no longer a continent of origin. You've become a continent of destination. That's the psychological adjustment that requires political courage and political leadership. But my estimation is that the driving forces of migration are such that migration is going to remain a mega trend of our century. The demographic divide, median age in Niger, 14, median age in Germany, 47. 10 armed conflicts and humanitarian emergencies from the Western Bulge of Africa to the Himalayas with no resolution in the short to medium term in sight. And then in the middle of this perfect storm, you have growing anti-migrant sentiment. That makes it very difficult. Elections are now one or lost on the basis of migration policies. Even coalition formation is made more complex by this. And so we have to get it there. We have to find a way to change the narrative, to come back to historically accurate narrative, and to begin to manage the issue and the challenge of diversity. Because our countries are all becoming much more multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multicultural, multilingual. And the irony of all this is that a lot of countries that are building walls are trying to protect societies that no longer exist. Absolutely, well said. Prime Minister, we keep hearing, we keep talking about the fact that there is no common strategy in Europe, that there's a lot of resistance, particularly from Eastern European countries. How do you break that? How do you get over it? How do you get to a common policy? And how do you change the narrative? Well, I know this is not an easy answer. First of all, the lack of a common policy is really a serious problem. Just to mention one fact that is interesting is that as far as I know, the first meeting of the European Council dealing with migration was taken, was held in 2015 in April. It was a request of my predecessor after a terrible shipwreck that took place. But what is incredible, I was foreign minister at the time, is that after this European Council meeting came out for the first time a European agenda on migration. We are in June 2015. And even now, this issue that as you were correctly saying is fundamental in deciding frequently the result in European elections in member states is not, it has become central in our debates, but it is not central in our budgets with only one exception that was the, and from my point of view, very brilliant operation done in the relation with Turkey. A few years ago, Europe put in this bet, it was a bet, a lot of money. So what can we do? I think... The Turkish, I don't mean to interrupt you, but the Turkish deal was a particular deal because of so much pressure. So it wasn't, there was no strategy there. It was very tactical. It was tactical and it was German. At the same time, I have to say that in completely different situation, the Libyan deal, if we want to call it, is tactical and Italian. Then we have the EU Commission supporting and member states in the case of Turkey putting a lot of money on the table. But I'm telling this because I think exactly today it is exactly one year from an agreement I signed with the Prime Minister of Libya, President Seraj, who obviously has not the same control of Libya that President Erdogan has of Turkey. So perhaps it's a little bit more fragile, this kind of bilateral agreement. But in any case, around this bilateral agreement we built everything. If Bill Swing is working in Libyan camps, if H.E.R. is trying to have better conditions of human rights in the horrible situation we have in Libya is because we had this bilateral agreement that allowed us to treat Libya as a state even if they have obviously problem. But what can we do was your question and I will close in one second. One, we have the long term as the Vice President was saying and we are committed in the long term. The Vice President was in Taormina for the G7 in Hamburg for the G20. Africa was at the center of our international global debate this year. But we need more cooperation and investment than only aid and the quality of this cooperation is key. I am proud of the fact, perhaps surprising for many of you that Italy in 2016 was the third global investor in Africa. The third and the first Western, not only European, but Western investor in Africa. This means that the first was China and the second were the Emirates. So we need to invest more in Africa and to have a form of investment that leaves know-how and cooperation and not only Europe. What can Europe do? I think countries that have the same ideas, the same position should move on migration on the road. And this is something that southern countries, but also with Germany and Sweden are trying to do with the commission. And secondly, we should repeat to our friends and colleagues having an idea as Alexis was saying, Alacard of Europe, that Europe Alacard is not available. We will have a debate on the Europe budget, EU budget in a few months. And it will be a very difficult debate because we are lacking a member. And it was a member giving maybe 13% of the budget, UK. And so it will be a difficult task for us, especially the stronger contributors to Europe to fill this gap. Will we fill this gap without a real solidarity and cooperation from all the countries on common issues? And if tomorrow we have a crisis in Ukraine and if tomorrow we have a crisis in other parts of Europe, what will we do? So some countries should have a common policy together not in 28 but 10 countries, 15 countries. We have different level of commitment. It is already so and we should do so. But everyone has some minimum obligation of solidarity to respect. What about a coalition of the willing within the EU? What do you think about that? Coalition of the willing to do what? To come up with new ideas, to come up with a strategy, to go it alone, as long as you have Germany in so that they can pay. Okay, I think that I am agreeing with Paolo that the problem is huge. Maybe it is the problem of the future of Europe. So we need to find permanent strategies. And I think that there are two ways to face difficulties and problems. The first way is to wait, to keep, to wait and to cover the problem under the carpet. The other way is to try to find solutions sometimes with risk and difficulties but to take initiatives with dynamism in order to solve problems. So this is my strategy for my countries difficulties. I took the power in a very difficult time for Greece. I said before the financial crisis, the refugee crisis in a very destabilized area, fragile area all around with an aggressive neighbor and sometimes unpredictable with an aggressive military activity in the Diyan with dogfights and over flights over our islands and so on with violations of the international law with open difficulties in open issues as the Cyprus issue. And with all around my country, especially in the south in Libya, in Middle East, in Syria, open issues and difficulties. So what was my approaching in these problems that Greece has to be part of the solution and not part of the problems? This was not every time easy internally. I had a very, very difficult reaction from the opposition. I was the prime minister that I went three times and less of eight months in Turkey to discuss with Erdogan in a very difficult conditions. And I tried, Paolo remind me the first meeting for the migrations in 2015 that Mateo tried to convince our partners that we have something to do with Libya and I try to alarm that it's not only Libya that we have to cooperate with Erdogan because the flows will come also from Turkey. And this happened just after that meeting with this very difficult summer of 2015. I think that we're obliged to take difficult decisions, difficult decisions and we have to admit that Europe and the so-called West world made mistakes in the past. In the war in Iraq, Libya with the situation in Syria with the difficulties to show a decisive stance in order to solve the Middle East problem. Of course with the situation in Balkans and so on. So what we have to do now, I think that it is to take brave decisions for the future. I believe that we have to at least to decide in the European Union that the European Union is not a lacquer. So if somebody's believe that the European Union is only for benefits they have to understand that it is not. We have rules. When I was in the difficulties of the financial crisis Mr. Soeble told to everybody that rules are rules. That Pactasun Cervanta. So this is something that also my friend, very close friend Victor Urban has to understand. Rules are rules. So the problem is not a problem of Greece and Italy and Spain and I don't know from concrete countries. This is a European problem. So we need absolutely agreeing with you. We need a common European migration and asylum policy and we need to implement the agreements. The EU-Turkey agreement, it is a very difficult one. And it is a very difficult one if you want to implement the agreement with and the same time to respect the international law, the Geneva agreement and so on. So we are trying to examine it one by one all the asylum applications. Well it's also an agreement that can, it's also an agreement where Turkey can change its mind. Of course. At any point. Of course. So at the same time we have to take a decision what we're gonna do with this aggressive behavior of Turkey. And for somebodies it's very easy to be also aggressive if they are living in Luxembourg or in Netherlands because their neighbors are Belgium and Luxembourg and not Turkey. But it's not so easy for us. But one thing I'm going to add. The EU-Turkey agreement, it is difficult but it is a necessary agreement. Because first of all, not we decrease the flows. We decrease the debts in Aegean. This tragedy that we show every day in Aegean with people that left their life on the waters under the manipulation of the smugglers. So we have to hit the smugglers networks and at the same time we have to promote a common migration policy and this means legal flows. Not to stop the flows, not fences as happened in our northern borders. Because this is a policy that for my point of view is a policy that is not looking to the future. Well, more urgent right now are the conditions in detention camps in Libya. Médecins Sans Frontières has accused the EU of feeding a criminal system of abuse. There are deals that have been made with militias in Libya. Many of you may have seen the CNN report about slave markets. Do you all feel that values of human rights are being compromised in order for Europe to have what we're calling the tactical urgent immediate solutions? Absolutely not. I think that values of human rights are totally and continuously violated in these countries in Libya, but also in the desert route since several years. Then, in the last months, the fact that also through our bilateral agreement with the Libyan authorities, we are bringing also light to this situation. You can't imagine that this situation was not there before. So what we are doing is exactly to fight this situation and to reduce the number of deaths in Atsi and the reduction of number of deaths at Atsi as Alexis was saying about the so-called eastern Mediterranean route is there in 2017 in the central Mediterranean route and data is available in OIM, but more than this- Has been a reduction number of deaths. A huge reduction of numbers of deaths, but more relevant than this, gradually, and it is not easy, the Libyan authorities are allowing, well, they call it an office, they don't call it an international refugee camp, but a place where there are refugees that are returned in other countries. The number of returns from OIM in Libya, skyrocketed in 2017 in comparison with 2016. So this is the issue, the transition from a criminal system to a legal system. Do we discover the criminal system now? If we discover the criminals, I think, frankly speaking, that what we saw especially if there was a video about slavery was a tremendous shock for African public opinion and African governments. I'd like to hear from you as well. I remember in the Abidjan meeting, EU Africa, it was a tremendous shock, but this is the reality and one of the consequences of this shock, paradoxically, was that in some countries, without any publicity, but working seriously, the potential of voluntary and assisted repatriation augmented very, very strongly because also the African government seeing this stuff, and I totally respect the fact that several African governments doesn't want repatriation because it is unpopular and because many of the revenues in some countries are coming from refugees. And it was a problem for the Italians one century ago and then for other Europeans in the past. So we have to, the way to fight this criminal violation of human rights is to change the model. We need a transition from the criminal model to a regular one and this should be in cooperation with African countries, European countries, OIM, HER. This is the only way from my point of view. The alternative is we do nothing and we tell everyone, okay, you can come and we help you to cross the Mediterranean. We have to know that we have more deaths at sea and also we have to know that this is frequently said around Europe, thinking that you cross the Mediterranean to reach Sicily, not to reach, I would not mention other countries because it would be unfair. So we have the problem and the only way to manage this violation of human rights is to defeat the criminals and transform the irregular flows in legal and regulated flows. It will take time, but it is possible. I'd like to hear your reaction, Vice President. Yes, first I certainly agree that I was a great shock to see actual slave dealing in this century. I mean, it was just an incredible, just absolutely horrifying to see that. But I think also what we're seeing is a degeneration of criminal activity where you find that obviously state capacity out there is unable to maintain human rights, international human rights norms or any such thing. I think that one of the crucial things is that we must encourage repatriation. The Nigerian government, for example, has worked out an arrangement with the Libyan government and we're repatriating everyone who is out there in the camps. It's a slow process because sometimes, there are those who even want to claim nationality because they see a way out of the camps and there is a great deal of willingness on the part of those who are in the camps to go back. A great deal of willingness because it's entirely voluntary and there is that willingness. So I think that there might be some room there to encourage repatriation because really the pressure, especially where there is no state capacity or there's inadequate state capacity to maintain law and order and maintain international human rights norms, the pressure really is a bit too much for the Libyan authorities. So what you find is that the criminal gangs and all of these asymmetric type organizations, what is going on is that they dominate as it were, the space and we may not be able to do much without relieving the Libyan authorities of a lot of the legal migrants that are in their custody or in their country. I understand that one of the ideas that's now being discussed in Europe is for requests for protection to be reviewed in centers in Niger and Chad so that the refugees and the migrants would then submit their asylum applications there. What do you make of this idea? Do you think that's a good idea? Let me come back to another point. First, as the Prime Minister said, let me say it's rare in my long life to have one story like the CNN story on the slave trade to bring everybody together around the same position. It shocked everybody saying we have to do something. The issue here is saving life. Suddenly the AU, the EU, IOM, UNHCR, President Suriz's government, everybody said this is terrible, we have to do something about it. And I think now that the focus in Europe since April 2015 has always been on saving life. This is why when I signed the agreement with Mrs. Mogherini, the high representative, we put in place waystations along the migratory paths not to stop the migrants and we had real problems at the beginning with the African Union because they thought we were trying to, we know we're not trying to stop them, we're trying to save life. We do three things. First of all, we warn them about the risk of smugglers. Do not take that risk. Secondly, those who might have a claim to refugee status, we turn over to our traditional partner, UNHCR, and the other group, weary from the journey or maybe thinking they made a mistake starting out, we give them an opportunity to go home with money, with dignity, to reintegrate into their society. We've taken 8,000 back in 2017 from Agadez and centers like that in a modified form are being created from Senegal to Cameroon not to stop them but to try to save life and talk some sense to them about the smugglers. Now, the program that we, the program that we're doing with the European Union has helped us now. We did 13,000 in 2017 and as of November 28 when you had the Abidjan Summit, the EU and the AU said accelerate this. We did another 8,000 before the end of the year and we're now going to do 10,000 more from the detention centers between now and the end of February. So we have the capacity to do that. The problem is once you've emptied the detention centers, if we don't break the smugglers model, they'll simply refill them. But so this is our problem. So save life, break the smugglers business model, it's all about money. And thirdly, very important, keep that AU-EU partnership together now because I think that's really the key to a lot of what we're gonna be able to do in the future. Right now it's working very well. So we can do a lot more. The other one, the idea, look, I've been to the detention centers, I've been to Libya twice in March and then again in August and I'll go back in a couple of weeks and I always visit the detention centers. And I can tell you, the overwhelming majority are young males, economic migrants, the most of them are not Eritreans or others who might qualify for refugee status. But those who do have a claim, the idea of centers in Niger or Chad is a good idea and we will support UNHCR in doing that with the movements or whatever else is required. So a lot of political will in parts of Europe, a lot of resistance in other parts of Europe, still very elusive, a common European strategy. We've got two minutes left. Could each of you, just with a yes or no, tell me whether five years from now we are still going to be sitting here and having this exact same discussion? Vice President. Would you give us a chance to say I hope not? No, yes or no? I really suspect yes. But hope not is a good thing. No, no, no, no. Well, I think we'll have the, for sure the same discussion on the same issue, but I hope that with a different situation because the long-term problem will still be there. We are not solving this problem in three years, but the emergency of the criminal networks need to be solved and can be addressed seriously. So it's a half yes? Yes. Prime Minister. So the answer is I'm afraid, yes. But the issue is if after five years this problem will be deteriorated or it will be a problem that we're trying to find solutions. And this has to do with the decisions in the European Union, in our countries. And it depends on them in the actions and if the Western world will be mobilized in order to find solutions in these problems. So as the inequalities will be there as millions of people will live under prune and underwars all around the world, the problem will be there. And we will try to cover ourselves behind our finger. So it is necessary to try to be, to mobilize to find solutions for the problem. Sir, thank you. I'm not an optist, but like Desmond Tutu, I'm a prisoner of hope and my hope is based on something very solid, which is the negotiation of a global compact on migration this year to be signed in Marrakesh. If we get that and a robust follow-up and review mechanism, not where we assign scores, but there's a self-assessment to say that we all now take shared responsibility for people on the move. It's not about migration, about human mobility. We can establish the rules of the road for the free movement of capital goods and services, but the people who make that happen, there are no rules. And I think that the global compact will come closer to a sense of shared responsibility. So I'm optimistic that five years from now, we won't have this problem. It's good to end on an optimistic note. Thank you so much to the panel.