 Kamori, and this is Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. I was the head coach of the Punahou Boys Varsity Tennis Team for 22 years, and we were fortunate to win 22 consecutive state championships. This show is based on my books Beyond the Lines and Beyond the Game, and it's about leadership, character, and creating a superior culture of excellence. My special guest today is a Super Bowl champion head coach and was inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame this year. He is the legendary Coach Dick Vermeel, and today we are going Beyond the Super Bowl. Hey Coach V, welcome back to Beyond the Lines. Well, nice to be with you again. It was fun last time and it'll be more fun this time. Coach V, you were the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles for seven years, head coach of the St. Louis Rams for three years, and head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs for five. I couldn't keep the job. What is it about coaching that you love so much? I love the relationship building. I love the challenge. I love the game. I love the sense of striving to accomplish, striving to be something better than you were last weekend when you got beat, or as good as you were last week when you won. All those things, but the main thing is the kind of people you get to be with in around seven days a week, especially as intense as it is during the season. Coach V, I was so fortunate to meet you and your wife, Carol, a few years ago in Hawaii. Your wife, Carol, has been with you every step of the way. What are some things you admire most about her? Why do you guys make such a great team together? I think number one, her great attributes. She's tolerant of me, my high moods, my low moods, my temper, my passion. She's just a tolerant person, understanding. I think it helped for her to be deeply involved in my job as well. She lived and died on Sunday as well and came to practice once a week and those kinds of things. I think, but really she's just tolerant of a guy she'd been married to 67 years. Patient, she also has great things to, great ability to condense what is really important today and tomorrow and not confuse too many things with it. Well, she, I feel so great to know both of you and Coach V, you were inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame this year. Tell me about that experience. Well, you know, I'm a byproduct of everybody I've been surrounded by. The NFL, the owners I've worked for, Leonard Toast, you know, Georgia Frontier and the people at the Rams, you know, along with Stan Brunke there and then Lamar Hunt, and then the coaching staffs I was involved with, players. I was very fortunate, very fortunate and many times because of the overall quality of the organization, you are a participant in building you as when you end up in the Hall of Fame, you're a byproduct of the attributes of all those people and what the contributions they made to your team because there's so many isolated situations that happen sometimes in regard to football and one play. If that person didn't make that play, I wouldn't be putting on the gold jacket. You know, if John Shire, as I said when I accepted my speech of John Shire, isn't the most valuable player in the upset of Ohio State, the Rose Bowl as a quarterback player, the Philadelphia Eagles wouldn't have called. You know, then they see that in the Rams. Kurt Warner doesn't come out of the blue, become the most valuable player in the league his first year, and Mike Jones doesn't make the tackle the last play of the game, you know, and you take the trend green, coming to the Rams and playing like he did, Tony Gonzalez, those kind of players, Will Shields, these great players and all of a sudden you as a leader, as the head coach, reap the rewards of their contributions. Then it was my job, especially after I left the Eagles, it was in broadcasting for two to make sure I put it all together and molded into the kind of organization that hopefully my leadership could influence and build. So coach V, right there, you said you put it all together. What did you focus on? What were your priorities? How did you build these winning teams? Well, with a lot of help. And also the control of decisions that make a difference in winning and losing. No one over ever told me I couldn't. No one ever told me in three different teams, you can't do that. They were always receptive to new ways, new challenges and new ideas and new processes. And so you get the accumulation of a lot of people making good decisions ends up a great result more often than not. You know, and you can think of a lot of NFL examples that reflect that, you know, starting with Belichick and Andy Reed and those kind of people as of today, you know, the Bill Parcells, the Don Schulitz, the Tom Landrys, people that were able to put all these different attributes into one package that function properly in a positive way. Yeah, no, that's for sure. And coach V, you have both of my books. And I feel so honored and grateful that you like the books. And you know, I talk about that superior culture of excellence. And that's really what you are all about. I mean, you're all about that superior culture of excellence. You're about those superior discipline details. What are some things that that you liked about the books? Well, I think anytime, you know, when you're out of coaching, you're no longer in the challenge of building your own organization. And I like to reflect back and think about what I could have done better. If I knew today what I knew that, you know, if I knew then what I know today. And what you know today is what you learn from reading and different concepts like that. And, you know, I can take one rusty comment and manufacture that into a way that it really adds to my profile as a leader and sort of sound bites with people I talk to in the coaching world and the team you're coaching, you know, you never know when you turn a page in a book, you aren't going to read something that stimulates you. And I first, I enjoy finding things that relate to help me being what I ended up being, you know, and then it says, you know, I did a lot of things right because here it is on paper. I believe these same things, you know, but books like you write isn't about any one thing, it's an accumulation of thoughts you gain that are stimulated by what is said. And then you add to that yourself and your own thinking. And I enjoy that, you know, like different statements people make, you make the book makes, and then you build on that statement and build on that thinking. You know, I'm still reading. I'm reading a book right now about MacArthur, Patton and Marshall. Very, I wish I'd have read it when I was coaching. There's a lot of things in there that parallel being a head coach in the National Football League. So, you know, you just, you never know, I'm at 86 years old, I still have a quest for improving the way I think, you know, and that keeps your mind active, I think it helps. It stimulates, it really is. Yeah, Coach V, the greatest coaches, the greatest leaders, they're always learning, which makes them even greater. I mean, I don't think anyone who's great would ever stop learning, right? I don't think so. That's when you become stagnant. That's when the people that weren't as good as you a long time ago, I'll end up being better than you are today. Everyone catches up. I don't care if it's an offensive scheme, a defensive scheme, a leadership philosophy. They change. Hey, the American culture has changed. I'm sure it has in Hawaii, you know, and the young people think different than the people in the last generation. And then those people thought different than that last generation. So, you got to keep making sure you're on the positive side of the next generation. And I'd like to be around one more generation, you know, 10 years would make me 97. But I'll tell you what, I'm still going to read what Rusty says and what other people say. You're too kind, Coach V, and who are some current NFL coaches that you admire? Well, you have to start with Bill and Shack and Andy Reed. You have to start with those two guys. Andy Reed, to be able to do what he's done, takes a lot of years. Because he's coached his own offensive scheme, for example, many, many years now. And every year, I'm sure that things he used to like, he doesn't like anymore, but because he likes it's better. He keeps building a better package. They lose the speed burner wide receiver last year, right? Goes to Miami. Ah, means the home run, right? They're a better offense today than they were last year when he was there. And so that experience, there's no substitute for that wealth of experience and knowledge in the right frame of mind. If you always think you're right when you're wrong, you never get any better. But Andy, I think that, and Bill and Shack, who's been able to coach through the different generation gaps? He asked, you know, do your job. That's his philosophy. And he made sure they do. Is he like exact personality of Andy Reed? No, but he is what he is. And no one does it better. And there, you know, there's some young coaches. I'm impressed with Shanahan. Of course, his dad was a great coach. His dad's a Hall of Fame football coach. His dad said, my Shanahan will be in the Hall of Fame. I just, I just feel that strongly. You know, Mike Holmgren, well as well. And there are other people that aren't in the Hall of Fame like, you know, Martin Shottenheim and Dan Reeves, they ought to be at the Hall of Fame. They're not. So I feel fortunate to be there. But I don't know, I've got off a little attractive. Yeah. Anyway, go ahead. No, Coach B, you know, it's hard to achieve success. It's hard to win one championship or one Super Bowl, let alone to sustain success, winning multiple Super Bowls or just having success throughout a long period of time. So it's not easy being a successful head coach. There's assistant coaches that are just great assistant coaches, but sometimes they become a head coach and then they fail. Why is that? Well, first off, normally they're not in an organization that can take advantage of their ability. You get hired in the NFL because the team was losing. Okay, now they hire someone to come in and turn over, take it over and get going and out. It doesn't work. Okay, it doesn't work. And many, first off, the personnel wasn't good enough. That's why they were losing. Okay. And secondly, if they keep losing and say, they just don't know what they don't know. And sometimes they don't start at the ground level deep enough to evaluate why they are in the hole that they're in. You know, but you know, there've been a lot of teams that found that out the hard way, but they eventually did. They eventually found out. I could think of the old New Orleans Saints. They couldn't beat any of that coach after coach. And they hired Jim Moore. What happened? Eventually they started winning, didn't they? And those kind of guys are out there, but there aren't a lot of them. And there aren't a lot of coaches that are given the opportunity to really take total control of what makes a difference in winning and losing. Yeah. Coach V, you've told me before that you love all of the players that you coached. And I want to ask you about that 1999 season when you were coaching the St. Louis Rams, and you guys won the Super Bowl. Why was Kurt Warner? I mean, Kurt Warner's story is incredible, but why was he able to rise to the occasion when Trent Green got hurt? And how did the whole team just gel together to become the greatest show on turf? Well, you know, when success becomes obvious and everyone sees it, they think it just happened then. No, that football team was built in 97 and winning four or five games and 98 and winning four or five games and roster changes being made. Rusty, there were only nine players in that Super Bowl that were on the roster when we took it over. Okay, three years. So there was a lot of room given for other people to come in and take jobs and find a way to do it better with the new people, you know, and none of them are bad people. They just couldn't meet what we were looking for. System coaches, you know, when we brought Mike Marx in in 99, the contribution that he made was tremendous, Al Saunders, tremendous contributions, you know. So, you know, it's a complete evolution. In the NFL right now, they expect too much too soon. See, it's a different league now, you know, you buy players and all these kinds of things. The practice sessions are now controlled by the players union, how much time they can spend on the field, how many days you have to warm pads, how many double days you can have, what you can do in the off season. So it limits the ability of great coaches and leaders to build. So the personnel department and the finance department, the salary cap, now you got to do more buying and hope you bought the right product, you know. You can't make mistakes if you do. You're in trouble. You're in trouble. You can't be successful, no matter how good a coach you were. Players win games. But you as a leader, you as a head coach, you as a coaching staff have to provide them with the tools to take advantage of their skills and what they can do. And then when you've done that, then the great ones take it beyond. They take everything you designed to make it even look better just on innate ability once the balls snap. Coach V, I want to ask you about identity because every successful team, every winning team has an identity. What would you describe your team's identity as? What kind of qualities were you striving for in building your identity? Yeah, to me, I think they identified these guys really hardworking kids that really cared about each other. They were deeply involved in the whole team concept, not a cliche, not anything. They really cared about each other. And you use the term love. In some cases, they loved each other. You know, you don't love everybody on the team, but there are guys that fit in a category that goes beyond respect. And what's the next term you used that goes beyond respect? I don't know. I'd call it love. Now, it's not the same kind of love you have for your own family or a lot of kind of stuff, but it's not far off it. It's not far off it. And when that can infect a football team, because the deeper the compassion for each other and the passion for each other, the deeper the commitment not to let the other guy down. You don't want to let that guy down. You care about it. They want to lift me up their shoulders. They want to help the next guy go to Pro Bowl or become an all American goal. I would say 90% of the true selfishness of people is erased in that kind of environment. Yeah. No, I totally agree with you there. And Coach V, when there's a new coach of a team and there's some new coaches where they'll turn a losing season around within that first year coaching. I mean, they have the same players. It's just a new coach with maybe their coaching staff. Is it just because they have a system or they have a better culture or they're able to connect with the players or to really highlight the strengths of the players? What do you think causes that? Well, first off, if a team was losing last year and they fire the coach and a new coach comes in and turns it all around, number one reason probably is they had some serious injuries last year. They had, they lost key guys, you know, and also all of a sudden, they're not as good because the players are guys that play the game. It wasn't that they weren't well prepared or weren't talented. They just lost the best players and it only takes a few and boy, all of a sudden, you're not what you were going to be. And we've all experienced that. I think that's the number one thing. I think there are very few teams that are poorly coached. Now, some teams are coached better than others. Normally, the teams that are coached better than others, those coaches have a say in personnel, have a say in a lot of different things that enable them to more quickly put the team together. Well, I went to St. Louis Rams. I had a 51% vote on personnel and I could hire anybody I wanted to hire. No restrictions, no number restrictions. And I hired the oldest staff in football. People thought we were all old men, but we had, we had some knowledge. We had some experience. There's no substitute for many years of exposure to how to do things. And gradually, like Andy Reed, gradually, you keep improving your scheme to the point that Andy's offense is always number one or right up there, you know, because he's been there and doing it. And so there's more often, I'll just summarize, more often than not, that team that was losing just last year, and you come in the next year and start winning right off the bat, mainly got players back. You had full control of the draft in trades, all that kind of stuff. And you had a weaker schedule because you're on the losing team schedule. A higher percentage of the teams that you play because of the competition level, you have an easier schedule. I've done today, listen to radio, NFL's serious radio. Some people have the last four or five games, toughen anybody else. And some people have an easier than everybody else. Well, the guys that are playing the easier never is going to win more games. Okay. Because in the NFL, if you study hard, NFL team, playoff caliber teams playing each other, usually at the end of the season, if you break even at 50-50, you got a good chance to be in the playoffs. Our cells used to beat that. He used to win 70%. He was so good. Yeah. Now, coach, when I was coaching, I would focus a lot on fundamentals because I knew that if our players had strong fundamentals, it would show up when it was a pressured situation. Players that have weak fundamentals, when the pressure is on, I mean, it's very evident. How much would you focus on fundamentals in practice? Tremendous amount. Earlier, I said, Rusty, the union has taken away the ability of coaches to spend more time with individual players to make them better. Try them out, work them out. If he doesn't look at a good, bring somebody else in attitude. Now they have 25-minute coaching staff so that you can break down the two hours you have to practice into smaller groups and maybe still do a halfway decent job. But it's tough. You have to be able to develop players. I don't care what sport it is. If you have more time to work on the fundamentals, that player may never be an all-pro, but he'll be better. But an all-pro might be all-famous. An average player might become an all-pro if you give them time to improve their fundamental weakness. But it's more difficult for a coach today than it ever was. I completely agree. I mean, that's what I see. You know this, that discipline is a choice. Self-discipline is a choice. And I always say that discipline leads to habits which lead to success. What are your thoughts? Oh, I agree with you. Yeah, no question. Self-discipline might be the greatest personal attribute you can acquire if you have it, really. When you say, I think to my players, you say you're going to do something, you do it. I don't care what it is. When you say or have said, you're going to do it, you do it. That's the first sign of training yourself. I'm going to work out today, then you don't. I'm going to work out tomorrow, then you don't. Your discipline breaks down. And when you're really a self-discipline guy, what you say, what you think you do, you do. Sometimes it's pain. He has to do it. Sometimes it's tough. Sometimes it's hard. But because you said you were going to do it and you set the standard of doing on a consistent basis, then you developed the habit to do it. It is just who you are. And my wife laughs at me all the time. I say, I got to get my workout. I'm going to need you. What are you doing there? Hey, this is what I am. This is what I've been doing all my life. If I don't work out, I feel guilty. It bothers me. I wake up in the middle of the night thinking about it. What did I give into? Why didn't I do that? Why did I find an excuse? And I used to tell my players, you tell me something you're going to do, then you do it. If you say you're going to call me at five o'clock tomorrow, you call me at five o'clock tomorrow. Because if you don't, I'm calling you. You can teach. You can help people to a certain point improve their own levels of self-discipline. But the initial thing starts with a mental. You've got to recognize how important it is. Yeah, I'm totally with you there. Words and actions matter. And Coach V, you had such an effective coaching style. How would you describe your coaching style? Vermeel's way. You've got to be yourself. People, every once in a while, someone says, Coach, what's really important? I'm just becoming a head coach for this. I'm just a coach that got this deal. What's the most important? The number one, be you. You can't be anybody else but you. And it doesn't take long for players to recognize you aren't being you. So make sure that, and don't be afraid to let them know who you are, what you really are inside and out. Most of my players have been in my house. I've gone hunting with them. I've gone all the different things with them. They know me. And they either buy into what I am or they ask to be traded. And I think I'm an emotional guy. Yeah, I tear up. I choke up. And that used to embarrass me. And I know the initial some players great, but they know I'm sincere. They know that I care. And they know this is me. It's nuts. The tears or the emotion are not a tool you're used to motivate. They're just part of who you are, you know. And I think that's the big thing. And then you can't be what you are not. You can't sell what you are not. Your team will not be what you are not. That's why being an example is so important. You want your team to have a great worth of ethic. They better see it in you and they better see it in the coaches around you on a year-round basis. You know, that's just and very important to me. I completely agree with you, Coach V. And Coach V. No, yeah. Really, it's not complicated. You know your success in coaching wasn't complicated to you. This is just what you do. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, it's who you are. And yeah, you have to be the model, the example for your team. And yeah, if your team, if you want your team to be tough and show fight and positivity, I mean, you better exemplify that. And Coach V, when I look at you, I look at greatness. I see you as greatness and you've been around greatness. You've seen it. How would you define greatness? Well, it goes all the way back to saying, I think saying a person being the best he could possibly be and then just a little bit better than that. There are those guys. Kurt Warner is a great example of that. Come out of the arena league and a year later, he's the most valuable player in the national football league. Being the best he could be and even better than he thought he could be and a little bit beyond that. Nobody's ever done what he did his first years as a starter. They're raving all about these guys. Oh boy, their first year started. Yeah, they were first round picks. Okay. Here's a guy out of the street, off the street, 30 years old, 27 years old, whatever it was. But there are people. The military world has spent a lot of money trying to determine what developed in somebody to become a Medal of Honor winner. They can't define it. It doesn't come in a package and it can be, I've sat next to Medal of Honor winners and didn't know he was the Medal of Honor winner. He didn't look like one, but he was one. So you got to be careful of putting people in packages. Somebody that takes his God-given ability becomes the best he can be with that. Then he's a little better than that. He just finds it. They call him overachievers. All famed players are overachievers. Okay. Really? Yeah. If they hadn't been what they were and then taken it to the next level, like saying go from the Pro Bowl to Canton, they went to the next level. And there was some active use within them. Self-discipline, pride. Recognize that hard work was not a form of punishment. It was a solution. And they recognized that they were surrounded by people they cared about. Very few people, athletes, coaches, anybody can consistently give their best to a leader that they care about the least. Very seldom. Very seldom. They may do it, but they do it only because they have to, and that's how they get paid. But there's always going to be a little left in them that they haven't given yet. Coach V, I have to say that you are a man of great character. You're an exceptional leader, a tremendous role model. I am so honored to be friends with you, to know you. I mean, it's so, I enjoy all of our conversations and I really want to thank you. I appreciate it. I don't take those words for granted or I appreciate it. And please give Dr. Miyawaki my love. I love that guy. I just don't get to see him like I was for a while when I was coach in the Chiefs and he was a personal, personal friend of Lamar Hunt. Of course, now he's rooting for his bangles are playing real well. One of the great men I've met in my life. Thank you. I will. I'll convey that message to Dr. Miyawaki. Thank you, Coach V. Thank you. Thank you for watching Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. For more information, please visit RustyKamori.com and my books are available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble. I hope that Coach V and I will inspire you to create your own superior culture of excellence and to find your greatness and help others find theirs. Aloha.