 gonna ask you about that. He'll start sending me texts that you know two in the morning where's my basketball court. I was gonna ask you about that but we've been so busy on these meetings. Hopefully today will be a little less little less busy so it looks like a fairly short agenda with all the continuations but maybe Aaron has a few surprises getting in there. There's a couple but I think we can move through it pretty quickly. Okay so I have seven so why don't we get going and so welcome everyone. Today is Wednesday January 9th 2021 and this is our bi-weekly meeting of the Amherst Conservation Commission. So first on the agenda is me and the primary topic I wanted to bring up today is just composition of the committee of the commission and so I am um terming out and Larry I don't know if you're just leaving or terming out and well I was no I'm I'm terming out I was a two-year-old one. Okay and then Fletcher you're probably going pretty soon I don't know how I got off before you but I got slipped in for another three-year term like last year and I said yes. Okay and so we are having a couple of meetings the 17th I believe Aaron for people who are interested in coming on so there will be some fresh blood coming on. I assume we are interviewing multiple people Aaron I don't know I know it's just one or more. I was just told to block it out I'm not sure how many. Okay so we're looking for at least two people and then Aaron also reached out to me and Larry about us staying on just so that we can finish up some unfinished business. There will always be some continuations the big ones right now being to Fino really. Yeah finish that one up. Can't and I think you know that's going to be what it's going to be and then um yeah poor farm would be nice to get that over with as well but we'll see but hopefully that'll all be done early July fingers crossed. Yeah I think August I want to say August one was the deadline for Canton um and uh we have like another continuance on Pomeroy but to Fino is another story but I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Okay um so that's the sort of plan for people um at that point I assume that Jen will be taking over as chair and so we'll also be looking for a co-chair as well but um that's not a you know you don't need to do it at that point Jen but you know if you're so I'm sorry I just had a big toddler distraction so wait Brett and Larry are leaving is that what I just heard you're like leaving leaving Brett uh I am being kicked off yes so well not yeah could I just clarify so I think the downs it's not a written policy but it's it's pretty they they stick pretty pretty straight to it which is if you have two consecutive three-year terms then in order to have turnover and new new people joining committees and boards then they they move you off so they don't reappoint whether it's a town manager or a reappointment or a council reappointment so that's okay so you can take a year off and then apply with a another you know an application and be reappointed so yeah that's always a possibility so that doesn't apply to me that doesn't apply to me because I'm on a one one two-year term yeah that's interesting Larry I'm going to ask the town manager about you because you you feel I've filled in for somebody as you know in a term with two years left yeah would you well let me ask you this if they considered that differently would you stay on sure okay let me talk to the town manager about that because um yeah let me let me just check into that because continuity is so important you know on these on planning board concoms eba etc yeah and I think I am at term limits and so yeah Dave's right I'm not getting kicked off by any means um but yeah I'm not eligible for reappointment this is a nicer way to say it sorry thanks everyone sorry about the rehash so um yeah so I don't think we need to vote this time but we might want to think for next time um who we want to be a chair Jen's the obvious person um and who we want to be co-chair and then we can move forward on that any other questions or comments about succession planning all that sort of stuff well yeah is it on the website about your the uh expression yes yeah your terms are on the website yeah I thought so okay I just have to look at what mine is we try in like two years you know we try not to have commission members expire just um retire expires before they're dead so um yeah normally in a three-year appointment but could we say something just about meetings as well um you know with the governor's order this is my understanding um so the clock is ticking toward June 15th as of June 15th we officially in Massachusetts we can no long unless the legislature passes special legislation we can no longer have remote meetings it would violate the open meeting law so if nothing happens by the 15th um any meeting after that would need to be in person now we fully expect the legislature to do something and we hope we're hoping because we we at the down level on many committees and boards have found this to be really much more convenient frankly the participation across the board in Amherst has been dramatically increased by doing remote meetings it's made it easier on staff it's made it easier on you all and many other committees and boards to around um you know family family um you know situations children daycare you name it jobs etc so we're really hoping that the legislature doesn't do something like oh extended to September 1 that's nice we're kind of hoping they might make it law but we don't know if that's going to happen so um we don't know if anything will happen by next what is that next Wednesday but um so we're going to post the next meeting as both virtual and in person and let's see what the legislature does so Dave I was talking to someone who's on Northampton City Council today and they said that they they were told they're not going back in person until September where would they have been getting that if the governor does if the legislature doesn't pass that extension they can't do that it's not legal that's what I thought okay thank you yeah so you know do you know what the town's plan would be let's assume that it is passed will it still be fully remote or will it be a hybrid model that's a good question Brad we're talking about that a little bit um hybrid you know we you know hybrid is challenging I mean we can do it it's a problem we can do it um but we can't do it for all the committees and boards and Amherst there's over 50 committees and boards and so it would it would have to be kind of parsed out to those that we can kind of afford to have the IT support for and and the technology for like you you all meet in the town room because basically historically who's met in the town room the select board and now of course the council the planning board the concom and the ZBA other committees and boards normally don't meet in the town room that is our best equipped room there's one other room on the first floor in town hall which I think we've we've all met in before which is tighter if you have a large group how do you fit them in there so it's hard for us to consider doing hybrid for 50 committees and boards but I think we're going to have to cross that bridge when we come to it but um so I'm hoping I'm hoping the legislature does something like says we're going to pass this through next year or something like that and give everybody a little room to breathe so we'll through Erin you'll you'll find out here in the next four or five working days what what the legislature has done between now and the 15th at least and so assuming that we do have that the town's looking for some input does anybody on the commission have feelings about if we did have the option if we should be hybrid or fully one or the other zoom I don't think hybrid works yeah so Brett we did kind of talk about this at the end of the last meeting just because it was like it felt like a pressing issue and we wanted to just create space to kind of voice opinions um and I think it was fair to say that everyone was supportive of maintaining some remote option now Laura didn't get a chance to chime in on that and I don't want to step you know I'm totally supportive of that yeah yeah so I think Brett everyone was kind of like why not if that you know um especially because it's actually more accessible so um yeah okay cool I did see the beginning of the meeting when there was some discussion but I missed that last part so I did review the most of the recording not all of it yeah fair yeah okay thank you I just wanted to make sure that yeah we had a chance to kind of weigh in and that's of my opinion granted I'm going to be off soon anyways I think that makes sense we actually have somebody from the audience who would like to speak so Joe Hannah you should be able to speak now thank you so much I appreciate it my name is Johanna Newman I live at 137 Stanley Street I I just wanted to quickly check the agenda and see if the discussion of the parking lot about at Stanley Street is on the agenda for tonight or if I made a mistake no you are correct and that is we are slated to actually talk about that and so whatever time is on the agenda we cannot start it before then but hopefully we will be able to start it and that one is at 740 740 great yeah thank you you are welcome okay um so uh with that unless there's any more discussion on that piece why don't we go over to Dave for your update Erin can you share a couple of slides I think Erin's gonna yes should be queuing up right now yeah can everyone see that okay yes yep yes great yeah so I'll I'll be fairly brief here but yeah just wanted to give you a couple of updates on on things that we talked a little bit about last week or two weeks ago um we have started the work on the the cribbing replacing the cribbing at Puffer's pond with with the the commission's blessing two weeks ago we are doing a modest replacement of some of the rotted cribbing these are old railroad ties up up at Puffer's pond we are not doing all of them that is a really large and expensive project um but we're just we're basically trying to short and unintended shore things up around the pond edge on the south beach that's the state street side and um at the at the with the increased cost of uh pressure treated lumber um yeah I think it's going to be quite a modest uh improvement up there but Brad and his summer staff have already started the project and it's mainly a safety thing to get some of the old cribbing out the cribbing is uh is uh in with rebar in the ground with rebar so when when the the old cribbing rots the rebar is exposed and therefore you get kind of a safety issue so it's going to be a pretty modest redo of of some of that work up there um let's see in terms of I'll come back to this this image on the screen the water testing has begun up at Puffer's pond and went um and Wentworth farm at Stanley street um we had some good reports a good good data come back from Puffer's pond last week and the pond was fine unfortunately the the um the samples from Wentworth farm this is in the fort river at Stanley street the so-called jump bridge came back today and no big surprise you know with the rain on the levels of E. Coli in the fort river are higher than um higher than the state recommends uh in terms of of public safety so we are going to post a jump bridge uh should have been posted today if not today tomorrow so unfortunately um we do have to put up warnings there and we we'd recommend people not swim in the fort river I will say that we are I'm working with Beth Gettle from DPW Brian Yellen from the fort river watershed and we've we've already begun to do some more comprehensive water testing as a town and working with the non-profit uh fort river watershed association group that Brian heads up to try to get a better handle on what's going on with the E. Coli in the in the fort river um there's speculation there's some historical data but we've never really taken a comprehensive look upstream of the Fearing Brook uh we got some new data this spring that kind of leads us upstream a little bit we really were we were blaming the Fearing Brook on a lot of the problem and we think the problem might originally at least in part um further upstream um so we're gonna we're gonna continue to look into that and I will I will update you as we get more data on that um the Fearing Brook flood plain restoration project which is um you know right down in that area and the Fort River um Fort River Farm Conservation Area um bids bids uh the bid documents have been out the um the uh we're expecting responses in the next couple of weeks Beth Gettle is kind of spearheading that that was kind of a carry over for her from her time as a wetlands administrator and she's in touch with Erin and myself and Stephanie Ciccarello on that but we had a site visit yesterday and four or five contractors were there uh so I think there's there's robust interest in in bidding on that flood plain restoration project um what's the timeframe on for that project we would be under construction hopefully mid to late August um early September at the latest but trying to do it you know certainly before any significant rain in October so it's not a huge project I think it could go fairly quickly um but we want to be under construction during low low flow if we can maybe if things turn around quickly maybe even second week of August so that's ideal um let's see and then finally jumping back to I I had talked to you about a little preview of some of the work that we're proposing and we'll be part of an NOI at Sweet Alice Conservation Area I'm not sure if if we can get any more detail is this the only slide uh Erin or is there another slide um so I have the larger um plan set um with the map would your map your map might be sufficient I I don't think we need to go did you have your map of the trail um that easy to get let me see I think that's kind of a good overview sorry about that that's right I was thinking you wanted to show the actual plans that um shoot I am having trouble putting my finger on that one um I don't know what I think maybe we just go back to what you've got there if you could zoom zoom in on sure and we'll start so there are four areas that we're going to propose um four areas of work to propose at the Sweet Alice Conservation Area adjacent to Epstein Pond so this is just a quick preview of the NOI that'll be coming to you in the the next meeting or two um recall that we embarked on this collaborative project with the Kestrel Trust um four or five years ago to preserve um the pond at the so-called Epstein property I'm not sure we're going to continue to call it the Epstein Pond but for now the Epstein Pond um and we are working in partnership with the Kestrel Trust to try to activate the trail in particular one loop around the pond that most of that trail has been established and frankly was maintained by Mr. Epstein for the last 50 years um but those areas had some rather informal and um and underperforming uh crossings for wetlands and or streams so we have we've identified four areas that we'd like to improve to kind of bring this into better compliance and make it easier for people to use and of course less impactful on on the resource area the first the first is area one we're proposing to install some simple wooden steps in in the slope connecting um actually two driveways one is a driveway for the Kestrel Trust and we've gotten permission from the Abutter to the east to include um part of their driveway as part of a trail out to improve parking out on um Bay Road and so that is area one and that crosses near to a small wetland um the trail itself is already being informally used but we want to make sure to kind of um concentrate uh use in that area so that people are not damaging the wetland to the north the second area is a very small stream crossing on the old part of the old I what I believe is the part of the old trolley line that connected Amherst to um to um South Hadley if it's not it may be it may be part of that I'm not sure I have to go I need to ground truth that a little bit but suffice it to say it's a very small crushed culvert um that um we would like to improve with some sort of a simple crossing there it might be as simple as a bog bridge um to the east in this in this drawing and we'll have more detail for you in a couple of weeks is really kind of a small wetland area a small seep and that water moves to the east right in through the the pond itself and really people have been just walking through the mud walking over the crushed culvert we want to make sure nobody breaks their leg or breaks an ankle on that culvert it's so uh it's kind of dangerous uh that area at this point the third area um the third area is something we want to include in this NOI but we may not do right away it's probably it is the most extensive uh work and the most extensive crossing uh I don't know if how many of you have hiked at all up on the Mount Hoyok Range but there's just a myriad of trails up on the Mount Hoyok Range and some of them are on townland some of them are on DCR land state land and some of them are on land owned by the other communities and some are on private land so this third area actually turns out to be on townland but it connects the trail system up to the Mount Hoyok Range State Park trails and right now and we'll have photos to to kind of follow this at the next meeting or when we present the NOI of course but this is a a really kind of a mudfest there's a very informal substandard crossing over over a very nice cold water stream and we're proposing a boardwalk and a a an improved crossing with kind of much more stable bank approaches to that crossing so we think this will be a huge improvement concentrate foot traffic on the the bridging itself and I think we're going to try if we can afford to do this with helical piers we're going to try to do it with helical piers this will probably be a phase two but we want it to include it in the NOI to get it permitted now the last piece which is we call piece area four will be included in in the first phase of work right now it's showing a much longer boardwalk and Erin and I talked about this earlier we don't believe that boardwalk is necessary nor can we afford it at this point the area where Erin's cursor is is actually an area where there's two crushed culverts in a in an absolutely beautiful cold water stream and Mr. Epstein I'm sure put those in there 40 50 years ago and they have not been functioning for as many years as I've been going there which is which is a lot and so we're proposing to remove those crushed culverts stabilize the banks and put a simple walking bridge over that that that small stream so that is going to be a huge improvement for fish fish passage for any any critters that use either the aquatic habitat or the the upland habitat on either side and it's going to be much less impactful on the resource area as a matter of fact we did the couple of times we've been there we actually have seen brook drought trying to get up through the culverts and they absolutely can't you know they're they're they're crushed and they're full of sediment and other other detritus so we think this will be a huge improvement and this will all kind of complete a a a much improved loop trail around the pond in partnership with kestrel so that's kind of just a brief preview of this NOI that we're putting together now with with Brad Aaron Berkshire design is is doing some of the drawings for us and Art Allen did some of the wetlands did the wetland delineation for us so any questions on that again we'll we'll have lots of photos and of course a site visit coming up when the NOI is filed with you Dave did you say you might have said this last time but is the town planning on doing the construction um for the bridges that's a good question Fletcher one of the one of the the the the things that Aaron I think brings to these projects with all of her experiences you know some great ideas and one of hers was if we hired Berkshire design on a very simple and very inexpensive contract and part of the reason we did that was Aaron's prompting to say let's get some standard designs for the conservation department so that we're not reinventing the wheel every time we do a bog bridge or uh you know there's unique aspects to bridges for sure um but if we can get a standard design that you like and that we can recreate around town um then Brad can simply do some of the work himself with his crew or in certain cases when Brad is is really full up with work we can just hire a um you know a um a local contracting crew to come in there and do this and you know these are not putting these together is not really rocket science but you do need a plan to follow and so there's some great carpenters some small shops in Amherst in the region that we'd be happy to put some business out there and get some people to come in and and of course they would work with Aaron within the resource areas to to do a good project and protect the the resources yeah that's a good idea I was wondering why you had you were hiring an engineering firm for this but now that makes more sense yeah that makes total sense well the other thing is they they afforded out they were able to put arts plans they're arts delineations and then the plans together are really new for us so again kudos to Aaron for bringing these two firms together in a very reasonable price and here we are nice so we'll we'll see more detail on that in a couple weeks um I think that's all I wanted to say at this point excellent thank you Dave any other questions for Dave Aaron the floor is yours okay um so this is a um we are we are using our new our new permit application system for land use applications which is very exciting um and this is what our new um applications look like when they come in um so we received this request um for a wedding on Mount Pollux on September 18th at three o'clock 15 participants they want to have a small bus bring people up no signage no vegetation impacts 15 chairs and two tables um kind of have a standard they have to acknowledge the rules and regulations and basically acknowledge that they're cleaning up um after themselves as part of the application now cleaning up all the material that they burn on site so yeah that's uh the requests come through okay and they have nothing about uh rain data or anything Aaron no so rain or shine I guess so okay that's it they're not like bringing a band no I mean we can people that's it yeah yeah I mean we can certainly condition I mean we kind of have their standard boilerplate conditions that we've sort of established for this um it comes with like rules and regulations attached to it um but you know make it clear that you know the town doesn't do any specific um set up for any event um and that they have to share it with the public obviously yeah if I could read I mean having having seen dozens and dozens of these through the years I mean this seems like a very reasonable proposal the size you know Aaron set up this with Mike Warner from our IT department created this new forum and this new application uh process and again as Aaron said they they get follow-up information from her if the commission decides to approve this application and um I believe they actually get a permit correct Aaron that I sign off on that they can show anybody if they ask oh do you have permission to be up here they have a signed you know permit that that you have authorized innocence authorized me to sign and there it is um this seems like a reasonable size um yeah no no no real bells and whistles it's kind of kind of nice um we we generally try not to have vehicles go up to the top of Montpolox so only in extenuating circumstances would we allow a vehicle to be up at the top we get into kind of liability issues um I have made exceptions in the past when we we had people with disabilities that needed to get up at the top but um it means some staff person has to be there which is can be challenging on weekends um I will say Angela Mills from my office was on Montpolox today and said it was it was absolutely stunning up there uh everything had been freshly mowed she did not see one piece of trash or any any refuse of any kind which was just nice to hear so it's it's in beautiful condition right now and I think the conditions will be that the state of the grounds will be as they are because I'm sure like some people would like it to be freshly mowed before but that just happens when it happens yeah we do make that clear um that we cannot you know that used to be the case when I first started people would call on a Saturday morning and say the grass is a foot long and I'm afraid of ticks or poison ivy and if you choose Montpolox you know it's it's it's it's an old orchard and wonderful views but it's you know it's not the bolt would end so um yeah you gotta take it as as it comes okay and insurance Dave are there any issues with liability because I know if it was a for-profit they'd obviously have to have their own insurance but we're good yeah we haven't done that for weddings in the past um yeah I'm pretty comfortable on that okay and I'm sorry Anna I think you were trying to say something oh I was just just making sure small bus can mean a couple different things so I wasn't sure they said that they're part they're parking needs that they're going to try to have a small bus and I just wanted to make sure that was not not raising any red flags for any view in which case I trust you and not worried so what are you thinking that if it's not a real small but I was like small but I mean like one of the half buses and is that I'm guessing they would just back back down if they can't turn around or is that like we're not so we're not worried well you know it doesn't imply they're going to take the bus all the way to the top they said parking parking people in with a bus I think Erin you know Erin could communicate that to the applicant that they need to scout this out we need to trust that they you know they know Mount Pollock's where they're going to and the size you know they only have 15 participants so are they getting one of those mini buses or you know one of those kind of limoed you know small buses for an event like this and you know they need to they need to do some measuring up there to make sure they can turn around but they'll just get in the parking lot and they're going to have to make a 20 point turn to get it back down as long as that's not on us at all then all right great perfect and it could be more challenging for them if all those spaces are taken at that point which is right that'll be what it'll be yep so yeah besides that yeah I don't see any issues here is anybody else have any problems with this one or we're not going to have our conservation commission retreat there that day okay um so looking for a motion to approve this application for use in Mount Pollock's I move we approve the application for landing or the land use application for Mount Pollock's on September 18th at 3 p.m for a wedding yep I second that okay Fletcher I LaRoy Laura I Anna I Larry I Jen I and I for me as well okay so next Erin um minutes and so these are the minutes from last meeting and kudos for getting them together so quickly so yeah I'm trying to catch up on minutes I didn't get through as many sets this week but um I'm going to continue to chip away at them so everybody read it I have can I make a motion to approve the minutes of May 26 2021 second okay so Fletcher I Larry Jen I LaRoy Laura I Anna I sorry and I recused myself since I wasn't there um so do you want to move into hearings you want to cover other business we I mean it's we've got a bunch of continuations um it's really up to you guys yeah why don't we see if we can get through our hearings and so yeah first few will have to be continuations and we'll see what time we're at that point okay Verna um so for 214 um Pom Roy again they've requested another extension um this is a month extension to July 7th um you know I've if this is completely fine and obviously you know that there was confusion I think with this application when Stephanie was covering for me and so I you know this is kind of exceptional but I just want to say we've been having a lot of issues with people just continuing and continuing and continuing and um the problem that I see as a staff person is you know if you don't have commissioners participating in the hearings then they have to go back and view the view the tapes or um they can't vote and um like Tefino being a good example uh we're basically two two years in on continuations and um the railroad project coming up soon is also another issue so I think we should potentially consider on some of these that have been ongoing to set a deadline for the continuations but that's I'll leave that to you guys to um make that decision I'm just worried we're going to have meeting where there's like 30 hearings because they're all piling up and then the other issue is going to be when a few of us um time out exactly at that point yeah Larry and I will be gone and for some of them there are people who need to accuse themselves for like Tefino yeah so that's going to be challenging so that should probably be relayed to these people that you know if you don't have a deadline they're going to run into issues here pretty soon I will um definitely let them know about that issue and let them know that we need to get this project reviewed and and through the door and related to that Aaron it'd be good for Larry and I to know how long we should be planning to stay armed for so yeah I agree and um I mean shall we say through July just uh well that's it's uh I I guess I will leave it to you guys to make that determination one of my what and this is this is one of my concerns and Tefino is going to be the sort of elephant in the room on this is that their hearing is is picking back up again on the 23rd of June and um I already know that there is going to be a dispute about our peer reviewers changing of flag locations they're going to try to um dispute that and say they don't want to accept those and um I'm very concerned on the trajectory of that particular one I've already I've already kind of gotten into it with the applicant like them saying well it's the commission's fault that this has gone on so long and I'm like we've got literally like 10 requests for continuation from them um and then sort of stalled revisions and stuff getting to us and missed the window for the vernal pool review so um I'm just concerned because I don't really know what's going to happen with that and I feel like we there's a potential for that to be dragged on after the 23rd of June so yep and then Larry and I I mean we need a sort of we should have a hard date it's not fair to the new people coming on it's probably right Larry and I can't speak for Larry I can stay on for a little while but I can't do anyone and hopefully Larry's staying on anyways so yeah I mean I think for safety reasons I would say maybe August 1st but it's really up to you guys and up to the town to decide on that okay so why don't we go ahead and at least for me Erin why don't we say that and if you want to get that approved by the town and then we can relay that to whoever needs to know for what it's worth to them fine with me fine with me okay okay well all that being said um 214 Palmarine Lane has requested a continuation to July 7th at 730 okay are you looking for a motion yep please I move to continue the public hearing for 214 Palmarine Lane to July 7th 2021 at 7 30 p.m second okay voice vote Larry hi Jen hi Anna hi Kletcher hi LaRoy hi Laura hi Dave just seeing if you're paying attention I for me as well okay um so uh onto the next one is the railroad and again this is this is another one that's just to me totally gotten a little ridiculous um I mean I think they've requested four continuations now since the the board requested to have a peer review on the um the boundaries the spray boundaries that they designated and um it just keeps getting kicked down the down the line and I feel like a deadline on this one would be um a good idea and if we don't if they don't respond that they basically are told it's going to get positive determination and they'll have to file an NOI it seems fair so I like that any other thoughts on this one okay looking for a motion I move we continue the public hearing for 214 Palmarine Lane whoops yeah yeah that's wrong the wrong that's a mistake that's a mistake sorry about that oh you caught you caught Aaron yeah sorry about that sorry about that um it is the um gosh central railroad I think it's northeast central railroad uh new england central or new england central excuse me all right I move we continue the public hearing for new england central railroad to 6 23 21 at 7 40 p.m second okay larry hi let's hear hi laroy hi jen hi ana hi laura and i for me as well okay and so I have 7 42 so um we are fine to go ahead with the next one as well um so there was actually two 7 40s tonight um but the first one is being continued anyways this is for 29 mil lane um there was the the contract for 29 mil lane is still being finalized by the by procurement um so unfortunately we haven't been able to start the peer review but we received the request to continue to um June 23 at 7 50 and you're fairly confident Aaron that once that gets approved we'll actually be able to get everything in place by that date it's been taking longer than usual to get contracts going because um our procurement officer that our accountant just retired and so our procurement officer is doing two jobs basically um so I feel like because the applicant got us a check and they've been very cooperative on the peer review that it would be fair the fairest thing to do would be to continue them to the next available date and then if if we need to continue because the town is unable to complete the contract then we should continue it from there I guess it works for me okay any comments or thoughts on this one okay looking for a motion I'm off to consider the public hearing for 29 mil lane to June 23 2021 and 7 50 p.m okay so uh voice vote uh Roy hi Larry hi Fletcher hi Laura Anna hi Jen hi uh who would I miss okay I wasn't looking at my little list and I for me as well so I was trying to get my paperwork open for the next one okay so we are good with that one so we're going to go on to 7 40 number two um and this is a request for determination and oops I already had the right paperwork open um so this is a new one correct Aaron so I need to yes exactly yep this meeting is being held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the commonwealth an act relative to the protection of wetlands is most recently amended an article 3.31 wetlands protection under the town of Amherst general bylaws this is a request for determination from the town of Amherst for enhancements to the existing parking area at Stanley street Wentworth farm Kiwanis field parking area maps 18a parcel 16 and 17 so I'm not sure who is presenting this is this Aaron or Dave I think I will I will start as generally our practice not to have Aaron present town projects but to you know support staff and and of course advise you on any of these town projects but so thank you very much I'm actually joined and I believe the assistant director of conservation and development Rob Mora who's also our building commissioner is going to join me in just a second if Aaron could make him I think he's in the yep he's being promoted now in there he'll join us in just a second there he is so welcome Rob and Rob is not only works closely with with me and and Aaron but all of our staff in conservation and development and is also an experienced in in building and in construction so he has been nice enough to assist us with some of these and will be assisting us with some of the design and layout of some of the improved parking areas that we're going to propose this summer and this was one of them I'll be very brief but you know the history of this site is this is the Wentworth farm conservation area off of Stanley street I'm sure you're all familiar this is the jump bridge the so-called jump bridge parking lot it is right now kind of a moonscape it is it is not a pretty pretty parking lot at all it has never been improved in in my time Aaron may have some photographs of it I'm not sure if you went out and did a site visit for this but it's an area that we've been looking at for a long time it doubles as a recreation parking lot for Kiwana spark for the recreation field adjacent to it I was just there the other day on a very busy hot day a day over the weekend and people were parked every which way sideways we get fender benders there we also have quite an erosion problem and I'm sure Rob will talk about kind of what we're proposing to try to address that but the all of the drainage from the parking lot actually goes down the trail toward the Fort river and erodes the trail so let me stop there I think what we're proposing are really modest improvements we're not paving anything we're bringing in crushed crushed gravel and Rob will talk more about that but we think this will bring order to the parking lot and really make a safer also more aesthetically pleasing approach to Wentworth farm conservation area so I'll turn it over to Rob uh thanks Dave um I don't Aaron if you could bring back the uh the plans that would probably be helpful sorry I was trying to get the photos um but they okay okay so we got two sheets here uh left side there a few images uh the the topography plan you can see there in the beige color uh with the what looks like a little circle at the end of it uh the right at the beginning of the trail shown in purple these are all images taken from our GIS that's the the the parking area that they've described that's really rough condition just compacted gravel that's you know doesn't drain very well ponds quite a bit of water there there's a couple of raised structures that cars could bottom out on pretty easily and then the water just flows right right towards the uh the trail uh eroding several you know 10 15 feet into the to the trail area at least um to the to the left is an aerial view showing where we're proposing to delineate a better defined parking area uh it doesn't take up the entire uh length that's shown there uh in the existing conditions in the gravel that circular area at the end uh that would be restored back to grass uh as we've proposed in this project uh down in the last image just shows the relationship to the wetland area again as taken off of the GIS uh that's um is shown in the blue at the bottom corner of that image so if we can go over to the uh take a look at the proposed uh parking plan uh there are a number of rocks uh that are surrounding the parking area right now it's fairly narrow so it doesn't provide enough width to uh properly maneuver a vehicle into a parking space between the existing fence uh at the property the adjacent property 137 Stanley Street this Newman's property and the the existing stones that are placed there closest to the the ball field so this would require adjusting those realigning those stones about seven eight feet uh to the south to create enough width to uh to create standard parking space lengths and some turn around we're going to wrap the the stones around the the parking to prevent vehicles from driving off of the area uh and try to define a apron although it's all pretty wide uh gravel right out to the edge of the road uh really undefined uh apron area so we're trying to define that a little bit better so uh the car's parking along the edge of the street won't be able to just drive straight in uh at the back of a parked vehicle and actually have to turn into the to the apron uh we're proposing a series of signage identification signs no parking signs to the north against this Newman's property the fence that's existing there would be one accessible space uh at the uh I guess it's the southeast corner of the lot where we'll uh improve the access to the trail uh that last 30 feet or so uh which would be new trail uh access is where the circle is currently existing of disc gravel so we'd fill in around that with uh loman seed and define a stone dust path uh to get access to that trail uh there's uh the as Dave mentioned uh water currently runs uh right down the trail we're going to try to cross uh sheet flow the uh parking area towards the southeast corner as shown there and that's going to require a little bit of carving into uh the existing topography uh there's a little bit of a mound in that area uh behind the backstop so we'll have to cut into that a little bit that's why I showed the limit of work a little bit further down than the parking area to just give us uh you know enough room to get a mini excavator in there to to create the the flow that's needed out to the lower elevation and let it drain naturally toward the wetland um the the finish of the material the finish of the parking area it'll be uh about six it'll vary about six to eight to twelve inches depending on where the the low spots are now of a of a processed engine af process gravel uh roller compacted and then topped off with a finer crushed stone that's a little easier to travel over when walking and then we'll pay particular attention to the to the accessible parking lot and the access to the trail with either a little finer material like stone dust or if that material compacted well enough that could be suitable same material could be suitable for those spaces as well um I think that's it I'm showing the erosion control the limit of work in the same location uh based on the GIS it's about 35 feet from the closest point of the wetland boundary um and uh yeah so if there's any other questions uh be happy to try to help I've got one question you're talking about that parking area being crushed gravel is that right yes the the finish would be a crushed stone how are you going to delineate the spots so people don't just park any place it's a good question um there there is a you know a possibility of painting or chalking the lines uh but the spaces um typically in these types of parking lots are not painted or delineated uh other than the signage for the accessible space and the no parking signs for the loading zone uh this is this is uh demonstrating that there's a proper area uh width and length for that many vehicles with 10 parking spaces yeah maybe those stones could be used as markers to indicate sort of boundaries I mean people will just go in there and park where they want to park that's what I'm concerned about sure okay they will if I could add Brett I think what we're trying to do is not only improve the condition for for the people using it to make it safer safer for people disembarking for children getting out for you know families getting out going to the ball field or going to the conservation area um and I think by doing this to bringing a little bit of structure we're not talking about paving we're not talking about a lot of signage or anything like that but I think new norms will kind of be established there which even though we won't have a painted um you know like like parking downtown or something like that I think it does become kind of a norm when you get nose in parking like that as Rob said um you know new norms are established and people go oh I can't park along the Newman's fence I need to go nose in uh toward the field there's a great picture of the current condition and it's it's just a free for all out there right now and it is dangerous and all of the runoff goes straight toward the uh the trail and toward the Fort River and so that is yeah that is that's a great picture right there um so again modest improvement no paving um you know actually and I and I think Rob's uh description actually uh and and that was a nice feature which was to to actually pull it back so so we're pulling the parking lot back uh from the Fort River in this plan by about 35 feet I think you said Rob that's right yeah so you're gonna have you're gonna have a sign in there saying parking maybe you could put a little sign of what the shape of the parking is identifying the various spots we will you know we will do our best to kind of reestablish norms as as Rob said also by narrowing the entrance um I think it will lessen kind of the free for all of parking you know there's parallel parking now as I said over the weekend you went in there and people were parked at all different angles and it's you know it can be a bit of a free for all there it really can so well one option might be spray painting the lines initially for the parking spaces just to get like Dave said new norms established so people kind of get used to the new parking pattern and then after time you know they'll figure it out and if and if it exceeds 10 spaces then people need to park over at the Kiwanis parking lot which is in very nice shape there's a new kiosk over there and they just have to walk over to the recreation area or to the conservation area um I think this also would improve safety along Stanley Street because we get people parking out on Stanley Street and unfortunately that can be kind of a fast road and a tough corner and I'm curious uh Johanna Newman is the a butter to the I guess that would be the north northeast and I'm curious um if she may have comments that might help us to kind of guide this this construction yeah and I do see one hand up on this probably uh Johanna and so I'm gonna um I will get to you in just a sec um I wanted to make sure that commissioner see if Erin had anything else to add then go to commissioners and then Johanna will definitely get to you so yeah I mean I grew up on Stanley Street and I owned a house there for 10 years so I know this road and this parking area literally like my back of my hand and I can tell you that it is hopping in the summertime and I think this is a fantastic idea and I know because I've witnessed time and time again during storms that material washes from this dirt sandy parking area down that path towards the river and I don't think it really gets to the river but even so it's not ideal it's carving out this really narrow channel that's hard to walk um and I think that stabilizing it pulling back the parking and also the other thing that this park this plan does is that there the currently the um there there was a blockade to keep cars from going down there and that blockade is since deteriorated and and cars have been driving I know as of last year cars were driving down to the river so this will establish like a new barricade to keep cars from accessing down to the river and um I think it's an improvement over existing conditions so I'm in full support of it. One question I had I think for you Rob is there's an existing structure there you have it labeled as a drainage structure I thought it was a manhole maybe that's the same thing but that just can stay as is and you'll just bring it up to that level. That's right there's two there's two manhole covers up close to parking space number one and there's an existing drainage manhole cover just off the all the way down off the parking in the existing parking but off of the proposed parking lot closest to the end of the area of work. Okay so they're not actually drainage meaning that they're not draining the parking lot they're just kind of structures that no they're not they're not catch faces or solid covers there we go thank you rating right up flush with them and then we left at the surface exposed excellent thank you um so any other questions or comments from the commission I mean I think it's a great idea long overdue and it's definitely pretty gnarly down there and Johanna um if you have still have a comment uh you should be able to speak at this point. Thank you so much Brett and members of the commission I'm Johanna Newman 137 Stanley Street um I really appreciate the up-butter and notification we got something in the mail and that's what prompted me about this upgrade so thank you for doing that part of just engaging the community in our local neighborhoods um yeah I mostly came on to just hear more about the project I think um it sounds really exciting it sounds you know like we're not trying to overdo it or over build it but really just kind of make it all work better I love the idea of pulling it back from the river I love the idea of making sure cars can't go down there because in the past couple days there's definitely been a golf cart frequenting jump bridge um uh yeah and then the erosion you know there there's no doubt that stuff gets swept into the river so it's a step in the right direction there um I guess I have a couple of questions you know um I think last year the town came and took down a bunch of the like big overgrown shrubs right along the fence line one question that I have is like under this new lot will the well does the gravel kind of go all the way up to the fence line or is there still going to be I don't know like a little bit of a no man's land if that makes any sense between the fence and the parking area um and then my second my second question is well the tree that is that you can see just by the dugout that pine tree is dead and I wonder if while we have equipment in here and before we kind of replace the boulders whether you know I don't know it seems like the tree warden could maybe just take a look at that and see whether it ought to come down or maybe he already has um and then I guess my last question is you know the spot where the puddles is right now um I understand that that kind of entrance will be dug up a little bit to the north side but is like or is that part going to be filled in with loam and grass as well just to like reconstitute the idea that like do not park here or um or will it just kind of be left with existing conditions those are my three questions excellent thank you Johanna so Dave I'll take the tree question we'll definitely Johanna this is Dave we'll definitely um talk to the tree warden and and Amherst EPW about the pine tree that's a great um that's a great suggestion um Rob may we'll talk more about that kind of uh that green space between the compacted uh the the current compacted area and your your fence um I did ask my staff there's a number of just random old telephone poles and and and invasive species kind of between the compacted area and your fence and and we definitely want to clean up get all of those old telephone poles out of there those were probably used for parking kind of abutments and we'll get all of those out of there and just kind of neaten up that whole area between us and your fence and then Rob may be able to talk more about kind of what what does that area look like the finished product and and then the entrance yeah so we're gonna we're gonna clean up that area as Dave mentioned and I have the edge of the parking the edge of the compacted crushed stone at five feet away from the fence uh so there'll be a five foot strip of grass when the project is done in that area uh with two no parking signs along that side on the fence side in that five foot strip as far as out on the edge of the road I think you know that condition can you know easily be made better while we're working there I'll let Dave give direction on where we go with that in the future but there there seems to be parking all along Stanley Street back to the the other driveway apron at times so I think it's more of a decision of uh maybe public works and how to treat the road edge there uh so right now in this plan we don't have any uh expectation of doing much work outside of the area shown on the proposed plan great I think that's fine I mean 10 10 spaces in that lot like that'll be an amazing boost in capacity okay so it sounds like your questions were addressed is there anything else Johanna that's it thanks so much for your time excellent thank you very much for coming okay so any other comments or thoughts on this project so overall definitely a big improvement Brad my only comment one is to thank Rob of course and and Erin for her input and then you know we'd like to keep Johanna and any of the other folks who live on Stanley Street kind of a prized of of the work and the flow and and when we're going to get started and you know we kind of welcome their you know their their involvement and and uh suggestions so as we go you know by all means Rob will be there I'll be there and I'll be there and Brad and his uh team will be there so a lot of this work is going to be done by town staff so by all means uh come and talk to us uh when when this gets underway I can't say exactly when that will be but um if the commission is in favor of of allowing us to move forward we will get this slotted into kind of a work plan thanks excellent thank you Dave and yes thank you Erin and Rob as well any other comments if not we're looking for a motion I move we issue a negative determination of applicability with conditions under the wetlands protection act and a positive determination of applicability under the town of Amherst wetlands protection bylaw for the Stanley street Wentworth conservation area parking uh evolution I don't know second thanks Larry okay voice vote Larry hi Anna hi Fletcher hi Jen hi Laura hi Leroy hi and I for me as well so we are good there and so Erin I assume you will send yourself the paperwork okay um so moving on to um to the next one but I think this one's going to be a continuation yes and Dave I had sent you an email earlier today just kind of um get to get a better idea of um our meeting on the 23rd is looking to be kind of busy we've already got nine hearings on that one um and so I was hoping to push that to July 7th but I wanted to get your um opinion on that what did my email my return email say I don't think I don't know if I read it I don't know if I saw it I'm joking Erin I don't think I responded to you I think I missed that email um I mean 10 10 hearings on one night I mean that's kind of a nice round number I mean no I think it's fine to move it to uh July 7th and do we have a time on the 7th Erin um hold on just one moment um 7 35 okay so looking for a motion for continuation to 7 7 7 45 so moved second hey Larry hi Anna hi letcher hi Jen hi Laura hey Roy hi and I for me as well so that is it for hearings for tonight but I am I know that there is other business for us to handle yes yes there is okay let the fun begin no um it's actually not that bad um okay sorry can I just jump in real quick so there are we have to Fino on the 23rd the yes the 23rd um just confirming so that's why there's so many most of them are one no I understand I'm just I'm just confirming um I know yeah but but there are at to Brett's point it is just one applicant but each application has to be handled separately when we get to the point of either approval or denial or however we do it that means motions with individual conditions for each permit so it is going to take some time to motion for each have conditions for each and discuss each lot individually when it gets time to actually issue them so that's why I want to like when it comes time to actually approve them or you know whatever direction the board goes I want to make sure we have adequate time to deal with each yeah and you're optimistic that we'll get there on June 23rd so I hope you're right yeah so I had another question on that so Aaron remember we were I don't know if we can talk about this right now or not but like in the last to Fino hearing there was an issue with the way like literally the method that they were using in CAD or ARC to do the buffer around the flags yeah and that's come up multiple times what would really be a bummer if they just submitted that same method for the buffer again that's clearly not quite right right um so is that any way like how can we anticipate that how can I how can we help yeah that that's a great great question because I I did talk to I did talk to Ted about that and brought that issue up when I brought up the you know basically we need to have revisions showing um arts flagging I brought up the issue about the buffer being distorted and I am not sure that it really how do I say this um that's how they do it and it was sort of stated to me that that's how that's how they're going to continue doing it and it was kind of like it sounded like that wasn't going to change so um that's a good question I mean I am sorry I was trying to think of if there's like an example or if we have a set of plans from like a past project or could ask art to weigh in on like how that buffer is is drawn from the delineation because basically it's like rounding what should be an angle right right and so you're you're effectively diminishing the square footage of the buffer so and that's like technically not correct and we've seen it done correctly elsewhere right right um so how can we get like technical input on that so it's not like a because I feel like every time we bring it up like there's some head nodding but there's no change yeah I agree um can we just say no I mean it's our Larry like oh yeah I hear you but I feel like in the last meeting I was pretty clear like so I know Ted is planning on submitting like a week in advance of the 23rd so like by next Wednesday I could send him a correspondence before the end of the week and just state that there were you know concerns about the accuracy of the buffer and that you know here's an example showing how we would typically see a buffer being drawn off of a wetland and that we would like to see that planned revisions reflect that method of illustrating the buffer for the plan sets I I'm not sure what else what else we can do um I know Berkshire design is drawing up the plans so I mean I I do I am working with them on something else so I could potentially bring it up to them directly just kind of you know so that they're aware of it maybe speaking directly to them but I don't know yeah I'm trying to think of like ways to articulate that so like if the if the actual delineation itself is linear you know is in linear segments the buffer should not be in curvil linear segments right but actually Jen what we have our points we don't have lines we have points right what we do is they draw a buffer off of the point so I think what they did is a legitimate way of doing it it's not that it's wrong it's not the best way it's not the preferred way but I don't think it's wrong though either but it is if it means that at some point along that delineation the spate the linear distance between the delineated line and the interpolation of the point is less than the buffer width it's less than ideal again I don't I'm not sure it's wrong and I'm not even sure how much of a difference this is really going to make I'm just worried it's going to come down to this with buildable area on some of these lots yeah I mean I'm with you it's kind of a weird way to do it I just don't know if yeah it's wrong yeah I hear you and it's weird that yeah and last time Kristen said no basically this we did it this way and that's how we're going to do it so she like kind of didn't engage on it she's given the same answers that I've heard I just yeah I went through the recording and yeah and kind of like what Erin was saying they acknowledged that yes this is how we do it and this is how we're going to do it I think if you're going to say anything if you're going to say anything specifically like that and I don't know what the verbiage is but you have to because I'm with Brett on this too if you're going to say anything you have to explicitly say what that function is in GIS you know what I mean like how do you how do you change it is that what that makes but I don't think we even need to get into that I think the linear distance between the buffer delineation and the interpolation between the wetland points has to be the required buffer width at all places along the delineation it can't be less so if they're showing 100 foot offset from the point it can't be less than 100 feet at any point on that from the point to the buffer line I think is right Jenna is getting it and that's that was my concern with it from the beginning was that it was being interpolated that the arc was being interpolated and there's like exactly so it was it was pulling the buffer away from that 100 foot no disturb and who knows what that interpolation would have reflected in maybe loss of 10 feet of the buffer or something like that but just as it's shown on the plan but I can I can express that ask with that verbiage that and maybe they could put some some measurements on there showing that 100 foot from the points in that area or something Aaron what's the possibility of you talking upstairs to the state about what's acceptable and what they should perhaps do I mean if it's got an engineer stamp on it or a landscape architect stamp on it they're the ones who are certifying to it so I think it's it's not necessarily that level of detail I think on this particular site it is an issue because the lots are so tight you know and it's really come down to reducing the square footage of each lot and so it's like get the extra square footage wherever wherever possible kind of thing which is why it kind of seemed like a red flag to me looking at it stretching the rules so I wonder if there's something in the regulations that would more explicitly state what Jen was saying where it needs to be x number of feet from the line not the vertices I mean that's the whole issue it's vertices versus line right yeah that's true right because it basically basically like smooths around the vertices rather than staying like a consistent width right and ironically there was something that you submitted tonight Aaron I think for the the previous one where and I believe you were doing the GIS and it did that same curve thing instead of the line thing and so that was that was a buffer in GIS so that's a little different okay so not the one they were looking at but in something that you were handing out earlier I can't remember what I was looking at possibly possibly the the Stanley Street plan maybe could have been yeah it just was showing kind of like small isolated very angular wetland it was this nice curvilinear type of feature around it yeah I think I know what you're yeah that one yeah so so it does it does put an put an arc around but the measurement between this point and the farthest line is is a hundred feet now that's a buffer off of a line in GIS the CAD drawing and you know I'm not a CAD expert by any stretch of the imagination but the way that CAD arcs are drawn like let's say you have a a point here and a point here it's like it it flexes the line in between those two points so I don't know if it's if it's the same survey you know accuracy but either way I don't want to get hung up on it too much tonight other than to say I will I will send a correspondence to them basically noting that this is a big concern and we want it to be accurately reflected on the plan what the buffer is let's just leave it at that and so that's going to be an outstanding issue and then the other one Jen or Erin or anybody that I did not necessarily hair resolved was which set of a vernal pool regulation so it's a more stringent one I assume that's what I just didn't hear that final sort of decision was that made I don't think I mean I think we articulated as much but Kristen hadn't seen Art hadn't issued his final report yet and Kristen hadn't seen that so we didn't I don't think we wanted to like get into that making that decision and putting Kristen on the spot okay so I think that will still have to be articulated clearly at this hopefully final hearing because that'll be another outstanding issue that could drag this on a little bit more as well right definition totally yeah so underheading like what can we anticipate now coming up on this next meeting that definitely applies yeah and their homework they would at least be ready to present the more stringent one yep yes agree Brett so yeah I'm in agreement with all of what you said and I mean I think that art's final reports it refers directly to our bylaw um but again that and our bylaws actually so this is the thing this is what's interesting and I've talked to art about this our bylaw actually would allow us to put a hundred foot buffer around the bvw we can we could do it from the from the edge of bvw we could do it from the edge of hydric soils you can choose any one of those standards and you can use the greatest extent now do we want to set that precedent I'm not sure that we do it could go either way honestly you could the commission could make that argument but if it went to superior court they might throw it out so I do think that the method that we're using as far as delineating the area of ponding and drawing the hundred foot buffer off of that is the more legally defensible boundary to draw from as opposed to drawing it from the bvw boundary um although the case could be made that the vernal pool species do utilize that bvw around the vernal pool and I think that's why it's written into the the bylaw like that um I just think that legally speaking it would be a pretty extreme reach of regulation to do that so it's another it's another one of those finer points that Ted has argued like no we're drawing it around the ponding versus around the vernal pool or versus around the bvw it could go either way under our bylaw but it's just a matter of the commission's comfort and decision of where you want that boundary drawn from okay yep and so we as a commission will need to make some yeah final decisions on that stuff so yep yeah what are we gonna do for the next three years we can be in court what the heck was this I don't know what that is is it just popped up on my screen and taking the time to like break down the whole process of the topino hearings and everything I apologize for the additional like stress and hard work that last email that I sent to you guys that I wanted to go through and break it out because I knew that the question was going to be raised that we've held this up and the reality is I have like 10 emails requesting continuance from defeno um from 2019 through 2020 and I have all those emails um you know it's just a matter of like compiling everything documenting everything and what's the point at the end of the day if we're going to be approving it and we're going to be happy with what's been done then it's a waste of time so I don't want to like get into the splitting hairs elements of like who's he said she said it's like I just want to get a thing approved and so we can move forward with our lives yeah I think we all want this one behind us I mean and when I say get it approved I mean approved within the confines of what the law states and what everybody's comfortable with as opposed to just you know I don't mean in any way like rush it through or something at this point of course the decision being made one way or the other exactly that's what I was getting it thank you okay so thank you also on topino so not from me but I'll I'll refer I will relay those messages to ted thank you and good luck to us all okay are you gonna move on sure um so I I did meet with the owners of 286 west pomroy and this was one where the owners are doing some mowing in the wrong one that's some serious mowing you know what I think I yeah that's a different answer college one erin that's hamster college yeah doing some mowing around a bvw or around a well it's a it's a ver it's a vernal pool it's a bvw and it's also a intermittent stream let me just because I think I took a bunch oh it's an enforcement excuse me a bunch more photos so I went out and I walked the site with the owners um oh this is a different site sorry about that so this is the one right here this is the one you went head to head with a master gardener no they're you know um so this is they're here they're they're here one of the one of the owners of the property is here when the time is appropriate this is it no yes so so they they do have beautiful gardens absolutely Fletcher they have a gorgeous garden yeah there's a I live in North Amherst I've seen the North Amherst library oh okay um so there there's like a um sort of a meadow here that surrounds it on either side and then you can see where there's a clear break in vegetation um the previous photos this the area down below was all mowed and it had come back with sensitive fern um it actually looked really nice when I was out there um but in speaking with the owner and they did submit a correspondence to us which was in the um enforcement file basically they have they've got a very substantial poison ivy problem down in that area they also have a problem with multi-floor rows and um garlic mustard I believe they have like a bunch of invasives as well as the um I mean you can see this is the a photo of the um poison ivy that's growing along the road and it was sort of taking over so they I think started to just do their spring cleanup and then just kind of it got a little overboard because they were trying to knock some stuff back this was something that was done by the the town they installed this um so this was not work that the landowner had done um but in any case they did submit this letter to us kind of expressing their their concern um and that you know they are they expressed basically that they wanted to do the right thing and that um they uh ordinarily do only mow the meadow around the um the wetland they don't typically go into the wetland but that they did because of the invasive species that were starting to take over in there and um I guess kind of wanting guidance from the commission as far as what you guys would recommend for the future with the multi-floor rows and with the poison ivy sort of they're they don't they're not using pesticides or besides anything like that to knock it back they've just been hand pulling it um and this time around they they I think weed whacked it or something um to knock it back um just okay and you were saying that the um the owner is here so that's Sharon Rogalski Rogalski uh yes yes that is Sharon yep and so Sharon um at this point you should be able to speak uh you'll have to unmute yourself yes and if there's anything you'd like to add um I I think you're uncovered it and I I just appreciated the opportunity to put my thoughts in writing in terms of um you know the fact that we've been here 32 years and I'm trying not trying to do any harm um my husband did get carried away I try to keep him at bay which is a challenge I've made it very clear that I'm now the boss and he has to listen to me because I'm I hate wasting your time and putting you through this and putting us through this yeah and we can just think of it as a learning experience so thank you well thank you okay um so commissioners thoughts suggestions um none of us like poison ivy none of us like multi-flora rose so we definitely are sympathetic with those issues but um there's definitely issues with once people start to get yeah definitely within a wetland and then also once they get within certain buffers of the wetland and so in general we request people to stay out 30 feet from the wetlands um from the buffers so and those are generally a no touch zone for us um closer than that then we ask them to you know come before us and we can kind of talk about what needs to happen in there so I live close to them and I've I've known the experience of this place with the 32 years she's talking about and they generally have done a good job of trying to maintain things just clearly problems in terms of trying to be invasive species and so forth are there uh they don't seem to overload overload the system they seem to take a lot of respect for the system um and it looks nice as Brett as Brett has said before looking nice isn't necessarily the best attitude but it is it is a reasonable place so and I I think um to to the point that the the point about the no touch zone I think that raises a question um which is they've been maintaining this um meadow around the wetland which is full of wildflowers and things and so they've been mowing it a couple times a year around there to because mowing it helps the wildflowers to come up and that's pollinator habitat so and if it's left to it's you know if it's left and there's a 30 foot no touch there and we already know there's invasives coming up that that those invasives are going to creep up into that meadow and affect that pollinator habitat that's been established so I think that the landowner is wanting to do the right thing but also sort of has this established ecosystem there and wants to know sort of what's okay and not okay in terms of like maintaining that existing meadow and then I know like on other projects that we've we've dealt with recently um hand pulling of invasives has been acceptable and if soils were disrupted with hand pulling then we've asked to have like a wetland seed mix or conservation seed mix put down but that we've asked for non-mechanical means of removal of the invasives so I I mean I don't know if this is just sort of general guidance we want to offer them or if we want to sort of set boundaries and say we'd like for you to stay out of this area or that area I like basically what you proposed there and the only other addition I add to that is non-chemical so as long as it's you know as long as the landowner does understand what the invasives are it sounds like they do not everybody does but sounds like they definitely do um as long as it is non-mechanical as long as it is minimal disturbance to the soil as long as there's no chemicals I think that's pretty good granted poison ivy is native but I'm no fan of poison ivy so I'm okay granted it has good wildlife value truthfully I mean has berries and other stuff so I'm being very anthropogenic anthropocentric on that so yeah yes so I mean um I guess do we want to issue a correspondence sort of outlining those general parameters like that those are what our recommendations are as far as the invasives are concerned and just obviously that mowing in in the wetland itself is um definitely not something that we would you know that by regulation is an alteration of the resource and so just to stay out of that area with mechanical means yeah so is it obvious who's going to talk I was going to say I think it's a good idea because in fact they're long-term landowners they've been there a long time and I think it's good to maintain that dialogue between us in the town or between them in the town okay well is that pretty obvious I'm sorry I didn't see all the pictures again it's the wetland's obvious it's just that depression it's a boundary it's very clear it's that depression it's obvious yeah because the other thing kind of feeling a couple ways here I mean is demarcation but I don't think that's necessary here but I mean if there are you know if this continues to be an issue then demarcation could be another option I don't see that as necessary you know right right near there is where the uh the the uh the pond in and pond view drive drains out over to the fort river now it's some of its underground in that process going through there but right right to the right just right across the street is the 10th grade of the golf course and so obviously the river is over there and this and I think it goes underground in some place right across the underground under the road but this is clearly an area where there's been long term flowing so there there are in fact two streams there's a and there's there's multiple culverts there is there is absolutely right and that's sort of a whole nother issue which I spoke to the landowners about so there's this small culvert which is immediately in the little vernal pool that was that was initially mowed and then there's I believe further down there's actually an intermittent stream and I don't I don't know that that's the same brook I think that that one actually might be further but the reason that I say that is because so this this one the culvert is pretty much blocked and there was like there was zero flow in it where I've seen that little stream behind pond view drive there's actually a good a good flow of water through it so I'm just not sure if it's the same markers markers pond flows down through there and I I've got to go down there and look myself to see where it goes under where it goes across the road because that that pond that that stream runs all the time 24 hours a day all you know right David Dave knows where that there you go okay Dave yeah I I guess I want to kind of put this a little bit in context from where where where I'm at which is you know we we have a landowner who's had very good discussions with Aaron out in the field I think we have a good framework for Aaron to communicate with that landowner I think we just I would caution we not to make this into you know the culverts are something I think related but separate the landowners have not done anything to the culverts we may need to address that from a public safety standpoint because if the culverts are bought that area of Palmer Lane has flooded in the past but I think that's a much bigger issue I'm just trying to keep it within the framework here I'm also very sensitive to Aaron's time because these enforcement issues do consume a lot of her time and I think we need to keep it kind of in relative perspective we want to reserve her time for something as much of it as possible for the bigger issues but I think the Rogulski's you know have come at this with an open mind and and kind of yes we we we went a little too far but we want a little guidance and Aaron can provide that through some of the comments here and correspond with them in writing and then you know it's a very prominent site and I'm sure they will you know my hope is that they will stay within those guidelines for as long as they own the house I've been watching that site for 55 years and I also just want to support the other thing that Aaron was saying earlier that I'm in support of active maintenance of the meadow that's already been maintained I think that's important for a number of reasons yeah okay so I think that we've kind of hashed this out Aaron do you have the specific conditions and then we can make a a motion for this enforcement order yeah so I think just generally speaking that the so it's not actually an enforcement order it's but just this is just a correspondence okay yeah right I'm sorry so I'm gonna pull that back and so yeah but I'm sure you have all of that recorded but just that we that the commission supports the maintenance of the pollinator wildflower meadow that's around and that's been historically established around that wetland for its ecological value that we would not support mowing of the wetland itself but would support hand pulling of invasive species within the wetland and if that causes soil disturbance that there should be seeding to stabilize that area as far as poison ivy I that's a whole another question how you guys want to deal with the poison ivy issue I mean if they're mowing the wildflower garden that or the wildflower area there that will keep the poison ivy somewhat at bay but it's it's coming up the road it's climbing up all the trees it's it's very very heavy in that entire wetland complex I know from my property the poison ivy things you know I mean again poison ivy is native it's doing I know it's going after the trees as you know I mean it's what's supposed to do yeah I know so I mean we can just kind of leave it at that and not address the poison ivy or just let the regular maintenance of the meadow address the poison ivy issue yeah I think we should do that it is native otherwise it just becomes sort of a blurry line I even though I'd love to see it out but okay I don't think we can there's only you got like goats or hand pulling and then you got that but goats are gonna eat everything so it's like pointless or triclopier which you say no chemical but triclopier would be the best one just it works I would want if people are going to start using chemicals if they just kind of come in front of us formally and then we can do that but otherwise yeah hand pulling so hand yeah so hand pulling is still okay like that's yeah okay well I mean that that's clear to me and I can draft a correspondence to respond to the Ravalski's that basically outlines that and request that in the future they kind of follow those parameters okay great um and if the homeowner has any questions about that yeah please get in touch with Erin and we'll resolve those so thank you can I just ask one more question um somebody mentioned goats with is that an option or was that a joke oh goats work they just but not in a wetland though so yeah goats are great for taking care of invasives but we don't want them anywhere near the wetlands that I didn't think discriminatory and they trample everything yeah I I didn't think so but I had to ask all right love poison ivy yes I heard I knew and then everything else okay all right that's clear and and thank you that's very helpful it makes sense we're very appreciative thank you great thank you have a great night you too okay next one Erin yeah so coming back to um my excuse me just get queued up here where I was um so the other one is the 121 pond view and and Dave and I did talk about that one um I'll just what I'd like to do and I think what Dave and I kind of thought would be the best approach here um was to issue a correspondence to the landowner and I'm going to call and speak to them about it before this correspondence goes out but just kind of um discussing with them what they're doing on the property um that they have to pull back some of the pathways that they've been creating um and some of the work that they've done on the bank of the stream has to be restored plantings or seeding done um and that basically if they want to proceed with some of the things that they've that they've moved forward with particularly like the um unpaved pedestrian walkways I'll call them that are closer than 50 feet to the stream that they have to file permits to proceed with that um and if they replace the the stream crossing they're going to have to file permits for that uh basically just to kind of reel in some of the activities that have been going on tell them kind of where the law states specifically what they can and can't do and then where they need to file permits in the future if they want to do work and just hopefully we can resolve it that way and if if that um can address the situation then great if not then we'll take it from there as the as time goes on um I think we're at a position where he just he just doesn't know what he's what the rules were and he's trying to take care of property that he thinks he makes it look nice for himself but he just has to know the rules and he'll you know I think he'll follow things fine so that by the way it's pangu drive not pangu lane oh excuse me pangu drive sorry about that yeah I I support Erin in this approach I do think time will tell Larry I'm not as I think um this is this kind of up watershed upstream of of the the 286 so um yeah I think I think we had a really good site visit with the with the landowner and and I think Erin is spot on and um I think sending a well well referenced and well researched letter to them would be great but if you know when we may we may plan a site I think we should plan a site visit out there again in the fall um to really say okay um what's happening out there and and and do kind of a trust but verified type situation so I think it's fine so and if it's okay Brett I'd like to get your signature on that letter um and so I could potentially work just go through that with you offline um sort of the specific wording if you're comfortable with that works for me okay great um do you want me to handle the 61 a that would be that would be great if we're ready for that we're well we're actually not ready for a full presentation on it okay I didn't know it was really on the agenda other than um has the I presume commission members have seen the correspondence from the owners the Mitchell family it was included in packets but I don't think we've reviewed it in a open session I think I think what what I would prefer to do is come back in two weeks and have a presentation I know in the past Aaron you've done a little write up on these which I think was very effective but in short the Mitchell family which is a longtime farming family in North Amherst stay on land between Route 63 and um Sunderland Road in North Amherst the core of uh uh North Amherst they have submitted a chapter 61 a right of first refusal so in short they are proposing to take their land out of chapter 61 a and uh sell it to a potential development the development is is what is being called the eruptor project which is uh a research and development project that is being proposed for North Amherst with connections to the university and and some national uh funders um uh are are behind this project um I think what I'd like to do is is typically what we do and Aaron has done in the past is do kind of a write up of the natural resources of the property uh streams wetlands um you know potential crossings that kind of stuff it's about 18 18.5 acres something like that I can't remember the exact number but it's 18 to 19 acres um historically farmland I happen to grow up uh adjacent to the farm so I know it quite well but um the question for us is what's before the commission is typically what is asked by the town council is for the conservation commission and the planning board to make a recommendation as to whether the town should exercise our right of first refusal and what exercising means is would the conservation commission and or the planning board recommend the council step in and attempt to buy the land for the um so essentially you're the town is being asked do you want to step into the purchase and sale agreement and buy the land for some other purpose and in in the case of the concom you would we could have a discussion in two weeks about the natural resources on the site the purchase price and is it a priority and I just I'm not saying it is but is it a priority for conservation and I think that's what would happen in two weeks so I would I would ask you to take a look at purchase and sale agreement between now and then so just a question Dave I actually I looked at this when I believe it was in our packet right it was sent over um let's say we decided that it was an area that we wanted to preserve where does the money for that come from well if so so really that would be up to the council if the conservation are you saying if we do you mean the conservation commission yeah yeah the conservation commission said this is an important site for x y and z reasons and we would like to execute that that purchase option so so you don't you as a body don't really have that power only the town council does so you are simply being asked to make a recommendation to the council and then the council makes that under under advisement and they would probably invite a representative from the commission to come to the meeting where they where they consider it the money the money could come from CPA dollars it could come from free cash it could come from any available funding that the the town has I believe the purchase price is is 1.6 million for 18 or 19 acres and that's all spelled out in the purchase and sale agreement in the packet that Aaron shared with you so which parcel again was that I looked at two weeks ago and I forget I don't recall the parcel number myself um but it is it it's in North Amherst off of route 63 in Sunderland road so it's past there Mitchell Lane there or before Mitchell Lane you mean on their driveway yeah it is it is that parcel right there right there yeah okay yeah the whole Mitchell holdings are somewhere in the order of 35 acres they're only proposing to sell 18 of the 30 plus acres there so what's an eruptor what's a ruptor development an eruptor is the name of the project that they're proposing it would be an R&D a research and development building a high tech building where they would do you know development and potentially some fabrication you know in association with the university it's a really pleasure there's a ton they've already put together their whole like website and stuff there's a bunch out there that's it's really and it's an interesting project oh it's up there okay I'll look into it yeah eruptor development erupt just if you look up eruptor project um I think I think that's what I did to find a provocative name it is yeah so anyway next what's the last one Aaron I care on your agenda oh Hampshire college yeah so Hampshire college contacted me because they had a student that um had done some work on their property without their permission um and put together this like really weird funky um little fort type thing out on the back of their land and they contacted me basically they wanted to fill the hole and seed it down and um I said that that would be fine this is how it looks right now so I just wanted to let you guys know that I guess it was a student who was just kind of going going off on their own and not communicating with the university on this work is it definitely in a wetland resource area no it's not in a it's not in a wetland um there there is wetland um that so it's at the outer extent of a hundred foot buffer zone um this this area is so they wanted to just before they filled it and seeded it and disposed of this material they just wanted to communicate this to us looks like a little like a foot bath yeah I it's a mosquito experiment I think really right and they of course will make sure not to fill the hole with the tires but remove the tires yeah they're and they're making the student pay for the disposal and the um restoring of the full restoration of the site um and I can I can actually I'd be happy to go out and take a look at it once the site has been restored just to make sure that it's seeded and um based on I mean based on their emails Erin I think they are on top like it seemed to me like the Hampshire college people were like oh my god you know and yeah they were pretty disturbed but the schedule is so packed like I don't know if other folks have a thought but in my mind I they seem to really be on top of it and it's going to get to marginal for our jurisdiction anyways so I guess as long as we're resolving it yeah okay and thank you for letting us know okay um so we received a request for certificate of compliance for 29 Hawthorne which is actually part of the sort of Tafino Amherst Hill's development but this lot is 100 percent outside of concom jurisdiction it was just part of the original subdivision so um it's got the red X on it but as you can see it's it's in an upland area so as a matter of course this is just to release the the order of conditions off of that lot which is outside of our jurisdiction um I would recommend that we issue a certificate of compliance on it yep makes sense so unless there's any discussion looking for a motion I move we issue a certificate of oh sorry I was just going to go for it am I good to go for it okay I motion we issue a certificate of compliance for DEP file number 89-432 uh 29 Hawthorne road in Amherst sagging it thank you so thank you so Leroy your vote hi Anna hi Jen hi Larry hi Lecher hi Laura and I for me as well okay um okay so these should be our last two items tonight minor administrative change requests the first is for 51 East Pleasant Street and this is the old Bertucci's parking area so the first request is basically they they they had an established treatment invasives program in their order of conditions and they hired on a licensed applicator from SWCA to do the the herbicide treatment on the Japanese knotweed that is in the it's it's on the banks of the tanbrook there and basically what they're recommending is a change to the invasive treatment plan based on the license applicator's recommendations so that's spelled out here but basically what had been previously recommended was that they in the fall cut and then do treatment of the of each individual sort of stump sprout from the Japanese knotweed but that what they're saying is that they recommended a foliar spray when the Japanese knotweed is flowering in late June and July and then that they do the the cutting and further application later and that they also requested they didn't want to put the planet plantings in until year three because they want to repeat this treatment again when it leaves out again to try to just eradicate it from that area of the brook as much as possible so that is the request part of the request the second part of the request was that they they hadn't proposed removal of the curbing along the edge of the parking area that goes up against the tanbrook there's a there's a curb at the edge of the parking area and they basically requested permission to take that curbing out and put a new curb there because it's it's all broken and the concern is that as they continue to have snow plows in there and stuff that the material is going to continue to break up and that it's going to eventually end up in the brook and that they want to take that broken curbing out and get the commission's blessing to do that there's a lot of other issues on that site that we discussed we discussed sort of at length with numerous parties the the stream itself if you ever walk down and take a look at it it looks like for decades they have been pushing snow into the tanbrook and as a result there's a significant quantity of well debris there's a lot of trash and stuff but also sediment has been pushed down and so the channel of the stream is nearly filled in with sediment and then the stream has been pushed over to the side so where the stream ordinarily would flow directly into the culvert now it's pushed right and it's not even flowing into the culvert it's flowing to the side like at one of the head walls of the culvert and they really want to have a conversation with us about restoring this restoring that section of the tanbrook in the future and I think that that would be a really worthwhile conversation to have not tonight but in the future and they just want to address this tonight yeah that sounds great because that little section of brook is disgusting yeah with the curbing are they just planning to replace it with kind the same kind of curbing that's already there I don't remember right basically in kind replacement of the existing curbing they just want to remove the broken curbing okay and then does this treatment make sense to you or Fletcher do you see any issues with this treatment no I think it's great I appreciate them actually waiting three years to actually they're gonna really try and try to make it work yeah the applicator seemed to really know what she was talking about I asked her a lot of questions on site and this seemed like a good approach seems reasonable to me to any of the other commissioners have thoughts or concerns kudos I was gonna say kudos and I would love to hear what the the expert said because we get so many questions about treatment it'd be great to kind of have a we've talked about this before about having like a set of recommendations you know like try this for a couple years and then well this is really helpful for Japanese knotweed in particular so I'll hold on to these recommendations in case we run into this in the future with like a site that needs to be um you know have an have invasive treatment for Japanese knotweed because I think it's it's because we did down on route nine right like down or down like that site the the um Bastio T site yeah I think they ended up not doing anything because it found it to be useless well and also private property like there's issues of the right of way and yeah they're just it's like a losing battle they feel like so anyway I was yeah I was just thinking because we do it comes up often it'd be great to have a set thing that we can share yep okay so any other sort of thoughts or comments on this one I don't think we need so um this is just administrative do you want a motion on this air yeah I would make them if you if you're comfortable I'd make a motion to approve this is a minor administrative change to the order of conditions for 51 East Pleasant Street I'll make the motion to make minor administrative changes to the curbing and the invasive plant control at 51 East Pleasant Street okay okay voice vote Leroy hi Fletcher hi Anna hi Larry hi Jen hi Laura hi and I for me as well anything else tonight Erin yes we got one more thank you for your patience I know this is a lot this one is this one's a very easy one though um a couple weeks ago we had approved um a single family home site um on Paley Paley village place um you might recall this there they are proposing actually to move the house slightly away from the wetland and to make it more of a ranch style home and to push it closer to the road in order to accommodate um a child that is special needs and so the construction has special ADA compliance requirements and so this again would be a request for a minor administrative change to the existing order of conditions with the adjusted change to the house footprint looks good looks like an improvement for yeah the wetland conditions and then yeah obviously for ADA issues that sounds great anybody have any comments or thoughts on this one okay so I'll make a motion thank you um approve the mind you call it we're calling these minor administrative change to uh the Paley village place home moving it closer to the road okay Leroy hi Fletcher hi Anna hi Larry hi Jen hi Laura hi okay is that the last one I think that was the last one that's all I've got excellent nine oh one and thank you for pushing us right along so we're looking for one final motion then I moved to adjourn this meeting at 9 o 2 p.m second Anna hi Leroy hi Fletcher hi Larry hi Jen hi Laura hi hi from me as well we are officially adjourned so thank you everyone have a great day thank you everyone thank you guys take care bye bye thanks always um Erin of course