 Don't understand better on how that works. So I'm playing with the topic of it a little bit But I'm trying to get banned. So I'm buffering my shit a little bit on and off and I try some things and some things worse than it doesn't but Overall, I don't I don't do it as like I like Other kinds of my own heart I test the waters. Does that make sense in your like perfect world? Do you think you should be able to do it though? um So Sensitive topic. Mm-hmm. Yes, but it depends what? Right, and I think we're a little bit ahead of the industry because I think down the line I predict a strong change that I'll talk about later if you want Um, I think it's a bit too fast, but yeah, but it just depends what the selection is you have to be able to the selection Okay So like I assume you're similar with destiny Maybe and I'm not sure if it's on as a position But like it's it's partly to do with your position on copyright like an IP. No, no the lock and suck it Honestly, I Understand I shouldn't say things like this right but it comes up to these laws I mean a lot of them are flawed old defunct dog shit, right? And what I don't I don't really use it as a moral compass and a morality and the gallery are two come different Areas entirely and he will mix them together whenever they if it's their narrative and sometimes they don't I think Playing that little push-and-pull game is really cringe That's my actual take. I think that's totally fair Let's stay fully away from from the law will stick strictly to morals But what I mean then when I say is like a lot of people think morally speaking that we should have rights to our intellectual property, right like the Morally, yeah, so gunning straight from that I think the whatever I create and whatever you guys create whatever anyone creates There should be a limit on before anyone can reuse it for their own purposes Yeah, you know a crazy extent or to Smaller extent and then of course we all have lines on where we consider it transformative But I assume you're in favor of that at least to some degree. Yeah Cuz like you wouldn't want people re-uploading everything you do without adding to it and making money off it I assume You have to be really careful when you ask Especially big streamers that question cuz I'm pretty sure excuse to even me. I would never give a fuck on Okay, yeah, but there's scenarios where you would right like if they start getting more viewership than you'll re-uploads The only way I would care about it would be is if I did like a podcast and somebody cut that Particularly and they got it on YouTube before I got it from a stream to you Yeah, that would be like one second. That's right there But other than that not even if people got more views than me I would just consider a really good exposure and that's the most important thing for me as a streamer is exposure So yeah, and I thought about that. No, no that wouldn't that happen to me. I just hired him That's it. I just hired the guy, right? If he gets ahead of me overall, it is a good job. And if it is a good job, why wouldn't I have it on my team instead, right? It's my content and so we get a better job. I'm gonna hire him then. What if they refuse? Um It's refused it sucks It never happened before because a lot of people that do that are fans of the content So they just do it and it's more money for everybody else because we can convert everything together It better for the algorithm, but if a revenue, but if everything there's no there's no arguments against it You would experience some form of benefit I wouldn't deny that but like if it was ultimately proven that they were still getting most of the money And you weren't especially on platforms you might not even be interested in you're just gonna let it sort of happen in the hopes That it will benefit you ultimately Okay, that that I don't think this that's ever I've never encountered that Um Ecosystem right so I think some of these hypotheticals hypotheticals don't are Tough for them to find that one of them in the real world, right? Mm-hmm like that doesn't happen But often it has happened to be before and I've been seen it before so it's kind of difficult to make it an assumption or On how that would be like right? Okay So it's difficult to almost you have some data or something or an example you want to show me wait So it sounds like you're hyper progressive on the idea of people being able to move Content around but that you want like an exclusive sort of even if it's a day Access to for audiences to come to you first Yeah, yeah, and you know what it's a good topic if you bring that up, right? Because people think that like consumers are really dumb about that, right? And when we don't know about that it's actually worse for us somehow because we it's all about live engagement for us right so things are in real time and sometimes When things are live and very personal and aren't really meant to be shared except for this I want these rooms to be to be here for the reasons that are like for interactivity like poles and can be an engagement that It's me bad to have like how do you call that? People react live because it's gonna it's gonna really cannibalize not only the viewer and analytics It's gonna cannibalize the actual core experience and it'll damage the product Which doesn't happen at all with videos? Especially if you put a buffer in between the rules released and then reacted to and then uploaded So if we then implemented that what do you think the consequences would be sort of industry-wide or worldwide with media? Like if we were all if copyright only lasted one day Oh one day is that an example man? Whatever timeline you want to go with that's less than let's say a week I think should be tailored to whatever the person wants because mr. Beast wants it to be immediate And other guys want to be six months other guys want to be if never so it's very difficult to find what people want as a whole as As a as a medium and you would I think it's case that case Well, so there's an angle that if we were to actually run that in like a worldwide setting the Corporations would dominate because they would be able to find ways of basically absorbing all of the best content That's made and then the incentives to create said best content would start to less and less and because people can't control their own Engagement instead it would all go to content sort of curators Absolutely, and we should go in those directions I think when these become a problem because then it becomes out of balance Which I don't think and be a shown yet at all and I'm waiting for somebody to show me that it's it's a it's bad Well, so I haven't I haven't seen it I don't think it would be out of balance yet because this is very much on the lower levels This is just some content creators that are more engaged with and then some of the ones at the top being able to Snip from ones that are lower to mid or ones that have given position at the top as well Like this is the beginning I think you you mentioned right you assume that this is gonna change as time goes on I believe for the worse you believe for the better 100% wonder why Joe because people enjoy it people like it It's a product people consume it at mass And I think we owe it to ourselves to explore these options that are shutting away as far as we can because of oh my god The small guy might be losing money, and I think it's a really fucking stupid argument And we're losing on value We're losing on actual human enjoyment and people realize that once the money aligns up with that Do you like people didn't write react? They've been fucking watch react Well, I assume we all agree that there are plenty of things the world and people want that we consider to be With while in terms of making illegal slash disencouraging. Yeah, give me an example Any any like I would say I would start with extremes like maybe people want to watch Well, maybe people want to watch two kids fight to death. It's like we can't have that Hey All right Every every time it desi talks or has it taken I lose a hundred thousand dollars Yeah, actual fucking black mold takes this guy man. I'm canceled by smuggler. I don't mean fucking open this mouth But anyway, um, yeah, yeah, these are these are bad. Yeah These are bad, but I think these are bad because of the nature of it But the root behind it is just like a an actual fucking crime, right? Where crime because the DMCA right theoretically if what you were doing is illegal, I don't think you still think it'd be wrong, right? I mean, yeah, like I we already approach the illegal aspect of it But I think as a for that topic it. Oh my god, I did I I think I think that Some things just just aren't enforced and for a good reason Right, and they compare that to something that is massive enforced enforced at a hundred percent rate And for the right reasons as well is pretty disingenuous of a pathway for an argument So of course, I would start to bring it down and be like so we do agree There are times when even if the audience desperately want it as a whole we don't allow it to happen Yes, like so why do we allow something like what you might do with let's say a lemon or video versus Something else and I would be like we do kind of allow in a good way for Reactors or responders, however people want to use the term to convert videos from whatever they were into something new But that there's obviously going to be the Was I correct in I think you you already said actually you're fine with a full re-upload because you would just either buy the channel out or They're allowed to do it as long as it's like a week after whatever Um Okay, so my take on that is kind of kind of complicated So it depends what the nature of the content is right that thing. There's a big fucking deal If if you're if I'm reacting to a story Okay, about a about a child that becomes an adult and it's like it's like it's pathway through it Right or it's it's it's growth through life, right? And I'm a regular and I'm like well I have to be very much transformed by this content. I really I don't want to hurt the guy Copyright ownership of this I'm gonna go full cam for 10 minutes After the intro of the movie and then I will have a take about the story After it happened, right and it's like well the whole thing is important, right? I want to talk about the whole thing I want to show it with chat. I want to I want to I want to go the entire thing is every part is important Right the every part is important. Otherwise like it doesn't make sense like it's gonna be like okay I'm writing to this at the beginning it Right and it's like oh well. I can't react because they're talking about something in so I cut the whole part out It doesn't it makes no sense at all like it's zero as much as that logic could be used for a lot of things Someone could extend it really far being like I need this 20 minutes of context before I can talk about the thing I want to talk about for one minute and then you know go on from that like an hour ratio to five minutes or whatever Whereas I would be like if you are unable to provide content beyond that limit Then it shouldn't be a video you respond to you should you just find someone that's better It's why it's why I don't upload the videos. I don't think that much. I try to tell my viewers on the fly Yeah, don't put this don't do that one. Don't do this. Don't do that because sometimes you it's only at the back It's like it's live content. I'm not I'm not a visionary. I don't or a savante. I don't see In the future, it's gonna be good or not. I just watch it and if it ends up being not very very reactive Okay, don't don't don't load it because it's whatever right, but you're okay. We're doing it on stream because it's a different platform Because I think people overall accepted more as an argument right, but I really wouldn't give a fuck it to me It doesn't really matter like it Yeah, because to try and clean it up I start and stop at transformative Transform it or don't as in transform it and you're fine or don't and don't do it at all Rather than we sort of try it out on stream fully and if it didn't work Oh, well, we don't upload it to YouTube, but we still benefited fully from the video on the stream I still think or benefit is fully. I mean at that point. I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you Some videos are so bad my chat would rather watch me like actually go full cam and take a nap Okay, actually then watch the shit that I watch sometimes, right? Does that does that make it any like does that like I don't think it's a very well But that would still be that's your responsibility not the videos Yeah, but they damaged a video to that point did it did it did it ruin them or fucked them over in a way They're like I'm doing that because I don't want to make my own content something or like I feel like it's not it's a bad I think it's an argument in bad faither if if you're saying like the video wasn't interesting enough and thus chat got bored And I couldn't react much to it. Therefore I lost out. It's like well, that's still on you as an entertainer, right? Yeah, I understand it But I'm just saying like don't make the opposite argument because I because I'm making that point Like don't yeah, there's no point doing a 180 here on it because I can't prove the opposites Are you saying that like I can't say that you still benefited? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I still think they were gonna get something out of it Well, I like it or not, you know, check our board or not. That makes sense Like so my argument would be that you passed over and like the term babysitting comes up, right? You've passed it over to someone else and then they failed to entertain your audience and now you're saying it's their fault It'll be your fault. So oh never that's I mean I can make that argument and be disingenuous about it and I do sometimes they just had fucking with it, but um Like I don't I don't actually believe that Okay, so then that's what I'm saying by you will always benefit because either You get all of the entertainment value from them or that they failed to entertain your audience and that you just move on Like there's no there's no negative. That's just neutral Yeah, yeah, those that get something out of it. I mean, let's be honest if they got bored They wouldn't watch it themselves either. They would they would literally yeah, click on it I think that I think there's a positive and my negative is a positive for them, right? And I try to I try my best not to all the time to be like, oh guy, this is dog shit I'd like it's not it's really dog. They'd be dumb but like you know like Let me be ungrateful like that. I think it's just mean or it's useless, you know Considering what you just said right that the if the video was boring, they're not gonna go seek it out Wouldn't your negative also be the content creators original categories as negative as well Now they'll be thought of as a boring creator that your channel. No, no, no because no because I think Every one's audience is different and special in their own way and some things will line up Personality-wise with something I like it and when I have fun. There's a lot of fun I love most of the time. It's kind of that the base of streaming. You know, but nobody has fun, right? And that's improving the time and time again So I try to find things that I am actually interested in it So trouble me just did it overall I think it reflects a lot on the audience if I like something it there's a good chance They might like it a lot, right? It happens very rarely like jubilee where I like a chat thinks it's fucking dog shit And what's fucking for that because I like it but Things that I show interest or I'm focused on or I'll talk about and I would passion. They are usually on board with it It's why that there won't be the same thing for everybody else. So some of the things as been Something that something that as well watch I'll watch and it will kill my career forever is it's that fucking bad But if I continue to watch that type of content at the same time It lines up with me because I don't enjoy that content either, right? So it's there's like a lineup there Right. Um, I mean the Obviously we need all the statistics on it I guess at that point to know for sure But I would just assume that if it goes one way as in the praise of the video or the engagement with the video would cause people to Think better of the creator that the reverse would happen as well. Oh It really depends like it it like if I watch a fighting game video lore of three hours about how John from Tennessee has overcome fucking Justin at Evo, right? I'm gonna be honest with you like nobody gives a fuck but the creator that actually likes that this Epic game was very invested in it because he knows all the lore and his channel is the lore and be more interested It's like a win-win, you know, otherwise, it's not I don't think really It's yeah, that's my thing Okay So on transformative as an argument Do you think because you've said that you would take it down if you were asked by the creator is that right 100% so why But I would would I take it down? Yeah, why would you take it down? Don't you think you're in the right for having on transformed it? Yeah, but I care But you what sorry? Well, I care You care Yeah, I care right. I care about the video. I care about watching it I care about their content. I care about them to some extent Yeah, you can say that as much as benefits me, but I generally care about about that video and about that that person And they want me to take me down. I take it down. I don't give a fuck. I don't need a video I want it. Well, they need two different things. So you can't for instance if Destiny was asked by Ben Shapiro to take down coverage of his videos and the only argument was I just want it down That's my preference. Would you do it destiny? Fucking daily wear already DMC had the last thing Okay, yeah, but not under the under the guise of just To remove a video Almost every time I'm gonna lean into yes on that The only exception would be if I feel like it's a very valid very necessary critique or something Yeah, I was just trying to censor things off the internet then I probably wouldn't So yeah, so we're gonna depend yeah So Ben Shapiro is a hard one because we're getting into the political Let's say Ben Shapiro puts it a video saying that like we need to take away all trans rights in the United States And then I react to that video and then he's like, can you take that down? Like I don't appreciate using that much my video. I probably tell him to like kick rocks or something, right? And then we go DMCA fight or whatever. Yeah, yeah, but it's but it but I will Yeah, like if I watch like that limino video and if my editor is fucking retarded and decides to throw that up on my YouTube Channel, which I shouldn't but if he did and then that guy emailed me was like, could you take that down? But yeah, sorry, like I'll ask you if I'm gonna use another video in the future years Yeah, yeah, but again, yeah out of all people I swear it like if you want actual because you all like always data and whatever out of all people the amount of data that I have and the combos of people and creators is Exorbitant so like you're not and I'm not I'm not gonna get it like like fucked over here on that like I will back it up if you want me to So, um, it's good that we've considered like if it was necessary content We would keep it up But what if you've put effort in you consider yourself like let's say you've given Commentary that double the video in size you checked out like actual statistics to support or decry Whatever they say in the video. Yeah, she looked put some good work into it, but they said I still want it down I put it down My job is it files play Streaming is a D gen Bottom of the barrel human behavior, right when I like a video and I do it for fun And I enjoy it, right? I think the video was good I don't give a fuck if I think it's good or not I think it down because I will find something to do any day of the week any day of the day I will continue doing that and provide that because there's a Golden goose and a golden golden egg. You know like um, that's my take it referring to your work as DJ and bomb of the barrel Like I don't I don't know I was about to like defend you on your behalf and say it was not worthless, no, I'll know it is it is an absolute no I Streams and live content are literally second monitor Exclusive things and they will always remain that for the most part it it absolutely is anybody who thinks that it's not is Stupid because they're comparing it to produced content at 100% production If it's an uphill battle argument to make it stupid to make it. Don't need to try it But if you feel that way then do you understand why people are as angry as they are um no because The people that are angry Nobody watches their shit then okay Um, I guess what I'm trying to say is that you already consider the format to be bottom of the barrel They're saying something like lamino is top of the cream of the crop and then you put out your video That's main value comes from lamino's video. And so therefore Okay, I kind of put forth It's like low effort versus high effort and people get a little bit you guys both failed You guys are both failing and now you guys are both failing it you missed an important component Okay, the action of streaming is bound to barrel dog shit, right? the product as a full-fledged product is Actually ahead of the curve the the chat experience the sense of community the sense of camaraderie and The social aspects of that are are severely misunderstood and they're very very very valuable, right? And the whole combo of the stream the China everything the product itself is very very very good But the behavior of the human-minded is degenerate. Yes Okay So in the world that let's say lamino puts the video out and then a hundred thousand streamers all do their reactions And they all upload I assume we all agree that the audiences are not going to spread equally to all of them instead It will be people like you and Asma gold etc. You know the established Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know where you're going with this. I don't know. Yes Streaming it videos anything anything on the internet of the media is very top-heavy and very much capitalistic in that and most arguments made Against that are usually like actual brain dead fucking commie Andes. I'm just gonna keep it a stacker So if you can try to approach it that way, I think you're gonna get crushed by go ahead I'm not it. Honestly. I'm trying to figure out a lot of this with understanding your mindset on it as well So make sense. Yeah Considering all of what's been said like could we not see a future where it will only benefit the people who are established already If we all agreed that you were right on this and we all felt that we should streamers Yeah, but not in terms of YouTube right because the video rule performing will continue to perform it As long as makes good videos. Well, as we I'm assuming you guys know about like what jacksfilms has been doing with XX sniper wolf I forget the full name or how the name is said but that she'll be reacting and getting millions and millions of views from Tiktoks that are all grabbed from people who have as low as like a hundred views and they never found Would you would you say that that is unacceptable? No Not um, I couldn't care little couldn't get these guys aren't taking off having taken off We'll not take off and have no ways of doing so Unless they will and that whatever she's doing isn't affecting that in any way that's negative if anything It's a positive flat out. He's saying that the market would have defined whether or not they were worthwhile Yeah Okay That's it. What do you think about that? Oh, you can laugh if you want. I'm right. Sure They're gonna keep posting it and she's gonna stop reacting it and they won't make it because their content fucking sucks Their shit is fucking garbage. Yeah, I mean he's probably right, but I mean I wouldn't say it that way You think he's right That the market doesn't think I'm right. He knows I'm right. There's a method difference Here's this is my if I was to argue this which I won't because it's such an optics L and I'll let XQC go eat all those optic cells What I would say is that like people are just mad at react content because streamers are seen traditionally as lazy compared to People that put a lot of like preparative work into their content and The reality is is that like all react content does is it makes some streamers richer and it makes a lot of audience It's happy because they can view something really just like a ton of upsides with probably no downside The only downside is a perceived or illusory loss that the original content creator feels That's not what I asked you the question Well, what do you mean or I'm sorry? Would you I'm asking about the fact that those tiktok creators are all getting like zero views Meanwhile sniper wolf gets all of them by reacting to all their content that that's happening because them on their Own would never get any engagements. They're not good enough. Do you think that's fair? Yeah, I don't think they would I don't think that somebody watching sniper wolf's channel if she wasn't uploading those I don't know if they would be on tiktok discovering those low view tiktok That's not that's not the point either Well, obviously my conclusion would be that they may be found some day, but for now they're not and instead They're just gonna get eaten by her. She can take advantage fully But that's another situation where it's just her gaining and then her audience gaining But if we ax out her gains on the audience's gains, that's it. We've just deleted So what is the correction then we can have her promote them, right? Okay, okay, wait. Well, you know, I have it taken the Here's the actual thing if you want to be a creator and when she did pop up you create Right and a lot of ways that maybe the first little make it won't have that effect Right, but the boost that they're gonna get when they make another video will pop off If you want to make one video when it could went hard and you said what in another world It would have been hard and it wouldn't been viral whatever. Yeah I mean, yeah, you can make me right Is that what you are a seven-tick a seven-second tiktok forever, and that's you are one creation forever Well, no, no Potential what it could have I think that's fair to send us the implication is of course that they create a whole library of strong content That she just gets to pick and choose to have a one she wants to react to like but we're not I assume Concealing that she's the one that makes the videos valuable by reacting to them Because you said like they're never gonna pop off and it's like so why does she pop off? I Assume you guys have seen her reactions. They're terrible like she just goes. Oh my god It doesn't know no no no, I'll stop there there. See you fell for it, man I had a high hope I as an argumentator or a bit debater I hope for you and you just fucking fell on your face. I am now now. I'm sad. You made me sad now You gonna make the social argument you felt well. No, you felt for the rookie bait It's super rookie because now you don't view it as good or you don't see its value Therefore everybody sees that nobody has no value. No, I I can answer why people are there successful I already answered why people are there. It's because of the tiktok. They're interested in the actual content No, just stop Go ahead. They thought wasn't it doesn't exist and she was successful. What yeah, but I don't know what she was stealing before I only know what she's stealing. Oh, she always don't know making assumptions. She always stolen it. I don't know Okay, but then you make any assumption about the fault then you are de facto make assumptions at that point I haven't I haven't said that. She's totally anything. What? Yes, you do. Yes, you are the nature of your argument isn't de facto You're the opposite what no, yes. Yes. Yes, you are yes, you are no I said I don't know where how she got to where she was before she started stealing tick tock But has value but you do has value. Sure. I don't know what I have no context Okay, your opinion on a good if it's that it were not is irrelevant because the stats and if I They should have other people is enough on its own. I Have no idea what point you're trying to make. Oh my god I'm not doing what you I don't know. I know what you are trying to make by saying whoa She didn't know the dog. She wouldn't get any views. Oh my god. Come on, bro No, so I'm taking what you told me which is that these tiktokers They'll never be able to work on their own her doing it is what's giving it value I'm saying she doesn't add any fucking value the videos themselves of what people are interested in enjoying She's just collecting them and then you said well, where did she get her fame from before the tiktok? I said, I don't know I think you're misrepresenting the way the argument went like um for the sake of looking better. I Venually think that the opinion on that is is relevant is genuinely irrelevant. Okay, so let me let me break it. Let me break it down um, I Think under playing The hybrid combination of multiple factors such as her watching it Her being who she is and her lore behind her right anything plays a massive role not the entire role Behind the success of the video regardless of how good the tiktok is I have I've seen tiktoks that have zero views and will never get any views right and I'm just really dumb and I don't even get the joke because I speak friendship and Chat will like the reaction it because I have a funny reaction But they don't understand why it was valuable or what is what it's good because the combo of the both They enjoy it and as value whether or you perceive that as valuable or not is a fucking irrelevant What what was there? I'm not sure what I'm responding to that your perception Yeah, I'm a wise doing good. It's pretty relevant. Um, if you try to discredit like oh well, um on their own They wouldn't even do good. I mean what makes her well my perception on why they're doing good is momentum That they've already got I don't know what I'm not even I wouldn't be able to tell you how destiny started his momentum I wasn't there neither. Can I say that for you? Well, I know it's something it might have been to do with the overwatch I don't know in any case the the the way you can maintain momentum in an easy way is of course Continuing to do whatever it is that view is cancer for but to also use these videos They're like placing tracks down for your train. They're easy and I think that's a unethical. Oh Oh I get it. So this is more of an argument because you're molding because of career choice and you can be making more money with less effort So you're you're mauled that people are making money and you are not Based on the fact that I'm much ever get to put in on you in your in your work field I don't mind your in your field of work I don't mind if you or destiny or anyone else makes a huge career from reacting to videos if you're transforming them That's totally fine with me. If you steal them, that's where we have a problem Actually, I'm really shocked actually she kind of moved me on this topic because what he said about snipers Actually super true. Oh, no, I really couldn't believe it. I would you make that comment on like, oh, shit He's right at the end of the day Wait, wait, can you say which comment in particular just everybody comes the most recent one where he said basically sniper We all criticize her way of doing stuff and everyone's making her the poster child at the moment But the fact is the audience sees a tremendous amount of value of watching it with her because they come for her reactions as well And for them, it's important to watch it They wouldn't want to watch a lot of these stuff without her being there So even though it may not seem transformative to a lot of you guys and a lot of the pokes criticizing her The truth is for the audience it is transformative in that they would not be consuming the content any way shape or form if it wasn't for her I don't buy that for a fucking second. They would happen to other people react to it They would happen to watch on their own if they caught it That was true. I would be a nobody. I would have never made it. I would be broke as fuck That was true. That's it bad flat out. I'm a fucking nobody and I brought nothing of value I'm only here because I may I made you choice in these combos actually worked out them That's it. Sure. If if if that were true, then why would people stay even if you're not commenting at all? For the community made for the community. Yeah, that's a different argument. I'm talking you said sniper wolf I'm saying yeah, it could be for the comments It could be it could be for the lore The sense that everybody knows oh my god, but everybody has a reason why they watch, right? People downplayed the lore of stuff people go in the comments and then they enjoy and reckon with people other people that saw as many videos as As her they make comparisons to her old videos and so they did in the past or joy that she made a long time ago, right? And they enjoy her in her content. It's on their front page. There's a mobile reason why people watch something There's so many of them and lot of them are social aspects and they're part of the product and Diminishing the whole product because you're gonna be with one part or another are stupid My product is dog shit times because of me and I think it's dog because of what's on screen or what's happening in chat That right when things work things work in tandem and in certain percentages or ratios to make a full-fledged good party, but that is desirable Okay, do you think that if sniper wolf stopped uploading completely that the views disappear or they go somewhere else? Yeah, sit at one more time please because I had done that don't know if sniper wolf stopped uploading completely Do you think the view is from here would disappear or go somewhere else? They would go they would split up on YouTube Some of it would go into the void, but if you wanted to realize something and it's very harsh as a reality When you're on the Internet, nobody cares about you Z row. You know what he has loyalty They're only loyal to the content Quality that you put out and you are 100% Replaceable and you will be replaced the views that you should stop uploading we'll go to other videos entirely Oh, we'll go to other things and don't we start the don't make the argument Well, we go to the tick tock with eight views the guy had and that was gonna get none next time that argument is fucking Stupid, but I agree they would go in other places They would likely fill other communities who do and react to different things as well And that would be fine with me if they transform in the content if they're not then I'm less fine with it Like I said, it's just a matter of how you're building your career How do you know that? Yeah, how do I know what position you just said a statement But like how do you know that they would just go to a different community and start watching other content? You actually don't know that How do I know that they would continue to watch content? I wonder as opposed to most of it will spread out money Not to the tick tock that she was watching it on the same platform and and it it spreads out Here's a good example. Look at twitches stats when I left twitch and went to kick up Well, I'm leaving the stats are relatively the same Relatively I think I real quick I think that it's gonna depend on the type of streamer and the type of community they have So like for not like for my content if I was wiped off the face of the earth if I had to guess I'd say probably like 50 to 40 percent of my fans would go and watch other stuff I think a lot of them would just stop watching content But if you were watching somebody, let's say you were part of like OTK maybe like like S-Fan Let's say S-Fan gets wiped off because he's he does collapse with so many other people Maybe like 80% to 90% of his audience would go to other OTK members, right? I think it depends on the type of stream you're watching the type of community I haven't how bought in you are to their content But I I don't think it's zero sum where when you destroy a streamer all 100% of the audience disperses to other content I think some of it will be lost I think viewer hours will go down overall and some people just stop engaging with content Yeah, you'd be surprised how many people just watch one creator regularly than like yes Like the video So didn't you make a point about how you're almost interchangeable with so many other people X yeah, yeah Yeah, I'm 100% very much visible here Yeah, so I believe the majority of the viewers then would definitely disperse to other creators I don't see why we wouldn't assume that's true Wait the majority yeah, we'll watch something else in terms of this and people are maybe maybe older Maybe they only tune into YouTube as the as their radio, right? They're like radio endures right and watch this radio and and they don't really care about radio itself But they get because this is on it right and they'll watch that and I think well as as you're as you're growing as you're growing up And as you get older right and the percentage of people that are gonna watch other stuff will diminish greatly Yeah by by Multi-due I would assume I think it's a good assumption to make it. I don't think it's an assumption Yeah, so the industry as I understand it then will be the ones with the highest momentum will be able to get away with the best of Taking other people's content and not Yep, absolutely, that's that is precisely where my issue is I think they should You don't have to care that's totally fine, but do you agree that you've you've created non transformative reactions 100% yeah, okay, that's fine. We're we've agreed So you just rendered them So that's my moral issue you don't agree with me because we have different morals. That's totally Okay, that's enough. Yeah, um Yeah, I think you'll never I think as as the future goes forward You're gonna you're gonna have that more and more right but overall you're gonna get a higher value Entirely is my more ways to enjoy something than just one so overall it's like we're getting new new sets of cars We're getting more cycles now We're getting hoverboards right as you're trying to say well well well well well um I Real people I really want them to only enjoy the corolla. They cannot enjoy anything about that It has to be the corolla right it just has to be as me right and I think that argument is Diminative in progression for um for products. Yeah, I don't see any Technological updates are gonna happen within my lifetime that will make me think the stealing content is fine like not transforming it Wait, wait, why is the fact that he is replaceable not make it transform? I don't understand the leap So no all the leap I was making from him saying he's transformative is that viewers would move to other places with the same sort of Vibes or community I'm smart and there was an argument sir. I'm rolling this fucker. What fuck you talking about That yeah, yeah, I have pushed him here, but it didn't work yet Okay Why is the fact that he's replaceable? Okay. Mm-hmm the fact that it's transformative. What does that matter? That's not got anything to do with my transformative argument I'm talking about where the audiences go if he says he's replaceable I believe the audiences will move to other places destiny's correct in that a lot of people who view him Passionately like there's no other destiny online same for a lot of careers if lamino stop making videos It's not like all of lemon those videos move to the next lamino. There isn't no there is no Lex next fucking out There is no next lemon that is correct And then then things that we're gonna have a second life life and bill or watch other stuff and sometimes in more in similarity to the most content and I think that's that's okay I'll be so that's what that was all establishing that so I figured that was an older argument The new one is just about whether or not they transform X you see doesn't mind if he is transforming it or not I do that's the difference. No, I mean Just a degree and a lot of times if they don't like that Oh my god, I can't believe this by my by trying to defend sniper I'm defending XQC at the same time But I still I don't care whether XQC says it's transformative or not The fact is that any time he watches anything on his stream his community his livestream chat whether he talks or not It doesn't even fucking matter his little reactions of his face make it transformative and I don't yeah True So transformative means something when we say transformative We're talking about that four-factor test for fair use that the United States has as part of the copyright. I write law, right? That's what transformative means now transformative and Something is so different that people will watch it for a particular reason those are technically two different things How do you say that? How do you say that? How do you say that you would establish it by looking at the four-factor test for fair use? That's how you determine if something is transformative in the not if they don't agree with that full factor No, wait, wait, hold on. I'm just saying you got to be clear when we talk about their use or we talk about transformative What we're really using our legal definitions there if you want to use like a casual definition Well, I would say don't because using the same word as the legal one, which makes it really confusing I don't think people care the legality I understand Transformative we're trying to say that like the work itself is changing to a degree that has value But I'm just saying that you're using the same word it would be like saying that like yesterday John did something illegal And you're like, what do you do? He lied to me. It's like well, he didn't do it. Okay, but it's illegal It's wrong. He did something illegal this it's not illegal, right? So I'm just saying if you're gonna use the legal term of transformative It's really confusing if we're using that a casual way But something that I said a few days ago is correct what you guys are saying now is that for most people Your you guys are actually close, but there's even one step further They actually don't even care about XQC's reactions. A lot of the quote-unquote I'm using this in the casual non-legal sense like you guys using transformative part really just comes from watching something with a community Yeah, yeah, which is which is additive and the chance of it's formative enough The fact that there's a discord of people can talk about these are added things that you don't really compute And it's very hard to quantify but are very much relevant to the final full-fledged product Which is a massive part of everything and you know what sometimes I'm if I can say it My chair is more entertaining than some of their fucking content that ass the fact that the chat is watching there saying it No, it's just saying it. Yo, dude. Mr. Chair is watching the video. That's value to people. That's funny I don't give a fuck and then saying Doesn't but that doesn't pass the transformative test right is it not though not the legal not the legal not the legal kind Yes He said he didn't care about the legal portion and we're really just talking about the morality. I could be wrong. Yeah. Yeah Like saying so something that some apartment complexes used to do is sometimes people would take a projector or actually we can do this Sometimes bars will show sports games, right? And there's a transformative aspect to going to a bar and watching a sports game with a whole bunch of other people That's like a real that's more transformative probably than being in a stream chat, right? Because you've got a bunch of people around you. You're all screaming you're having fun or whatever However, my understanding is that those establishments still legally need to purchase a special license to show those things You can't just buy one HBO ticket to a fight and then show that in a bar You've got to buy a special license for that because you're showing it to a wide variety of people as part of an establishment Right. That's I'm just I'm not disagreeing with you guys are saying I'm just saying that's like the legal part is a little there's a distinction between the part of Transforming here versus just like why somebody will watch something. I think I agree I think we all agree act even you and you're yeah, you were taken to court. You would probably lose you agree. Oh Yeah Because these laws are oldest fuck and they are defunct and stupid and it should be that way I think that's probably what Ethan's gonna try to go for it first is how wrong you are on the law And then you'll move to morals and you'll probably have a better standing But you'll still yeah I mean he'll give all the life because he lost his entire career or his entire fucking future in terms of money to it Right to that the very issue and he's mauled that like I'm going around the pot making fun of it when he lost a lot for it You're right. Yeah, but the thing is with Ethan I don't think obviously the legal aspect we've added in terms of how the news story unfolded I think people were on his side because it really felt like what he was doing was transformative and that it changed it They didn't care about the legal aspect of it when they were thinking about that They said no what you did really change the work in the way that I view it Yeah And so I think what I guess what I'm getting at is that when I'm looking at XQC or even sniper SS Wolf I feel like both of them do enough where for the audience the experience wouldn't be the same Okay, so I have a question if I uploaded all of your videos and my community reacted to it and I wasn't there Would you be okay with that? Shit I would oh man Okay, hold on Abba has to say no he would he does have to say no I know him a little bit Hold on cuz he literally on my stream like three days ago DMC fucking just pearly things I so we're doing it. It's a paid actor He gets paid is gonna come in and lose my argument on my behalf Even though I'm okay with it and now it's at the cover for him You're in the clear X you're in the clear for now. It's Abba. That's gonna have to suffer But anyways all this to say I would have an issue because of how I've always felt about it Now if you ask me if I feel as transformative three days ago I probably would have said no, but I've honestly been a little bit fucking change my mind tonight by the conversation I've heard I'm really shocked. I mean it's never happened, but X actually like changed my mind I see I see I have a concept in my chat I'm called mr. Chair if I'm gone and watch a video and I leave Mr. Chair watches video for me and chat fucking loves mr. Chair more than like they like me chat hates me They love mr. Chair. Okay, and for them that has value and I think that that is can be understated. All right Um, so I would just to clarify you be okay with me doing it Yeah, oh, yeah, that's me too. Yeah. Yes. I think I probably still feel some type way on the inside, but I think it's why Why some some some some I think everybody has some insecurities However, we're gonna project those is all up to you But I think that if you shouldn't get various of arguments because they're come from insecurities These guys made it just to clarify because like that scenario is kind of a step just further than what we were talking about when we first Started next you said you'd offer to buy the channels out, right? If they did that. Oh If they if they if they do what I do But better and they give it on another rhythm. I will add them to the ship Okay, I will revise the workload and we're gonna get a clip guy Yeah, yeah now my editor is good enough that he does all of it Yeah, he learned how to do the rat clip the joint clip the post clip the fast clipping He knows all the strats But if he's he gets bad enough at it and it's not good anymore We get we get rolled up all higher the next guy that does better. No, yeah fair enough But obviously what I was bringing up is I was expecting to leave me alone not try to buy me out Let me make my money Yeah, I mean I wasn't gonna buy you out. I was gonna leave it alone But I would I would say this I think that most people when we're talking about the morality of the issue Their idea of what is transformative is gonna be fairly subjective But for the audiences watching the content they would feel like it's extremely transformative for them And so I would ask you how do you make the moral argument where you can feel like this is something that should be a little bit more expanded? Like more people should follow it. I'm curious like how do you even define that line really on a moral basis? You're asking me like how I would consider it with the line for non transformative to transformative. Yes. Well, what is the line? So I wouldn't ask I probably model it after the the full-point thing But like one of those I think includes like the amount of time which I'm not in favor of so for example If it said like you need to have a maximum of 10% of the original content in yours I'd be like no, I don't I don't think that should necessarily be true if you respond fully to 100% of it in detail It shouldn't be that like well now they they own it because you've done that obviously I'm personally invested in that since I do like full breakdowns of every scene in a movie sort of thing The main thing I think is to change like the full experience of watching the original like what's you can't If I was to review a movie that you can't watch my video and have the experience of watching the movie Like it's a completely different thing and it's on different markets for different purposes That's like one of the primary issues too much of my work is in there for it to be considered Not my work is kind of what I would say, you know You know, it's crazy he said that the future in your lifetime wouldn't change as much as you think it would whatever the fuck Or to make you made that argument and actually it's crazy that corporate are the most scared about this and they really don't want that All that bullshit right yet. They're exploring watch party options, which is a massively in my in my argument You're watching movies together as like watch parties That's a that is a massive advancement that even corporate see value in it So whatever you see value in it I mean you are wrong on all points like all of them Great is on my side. I agree with you that there are avenues in which this is going to develop, but they will be licensed Oh, okay, so now we're back into the legal lingo of bullshit. Gotcha. Well, you'd be clear morally if you had licenses for all of these things I wouldn't mind The whole point of the whole point of the license is just to ensure that the original copyright holders are respected That's the whole point of a license a license a license accomplishes two things One when you create something But what copyright means is that you have the exclusive right to create copies of that electronic work or not electronic But that intellectual property, right? That's what copyright means You're the sole person that can create copies of it a license allows other people to create copies based on an agreement between the rights Holder and whoever is selling the license. So that's one thing the second part is a license allows the people who owned the copyright And then license other people to make money off of it Those are the two things that a license helps with so when you talk about watch parties The original rights holder exclusive right is respected because he's licensed the content of somebody else And oftentimes there's a form of compensation for it. That's what that's why licensing is different than just straight watching content Well, I'm about to do There are times when I want to be a become a lawyer what that I'm interested in this and recent times You know what I think law can suck my dick Law is completely garbage. It's a it's a money sink. It's a it's a it's a loophole of a human waste It's trash What an absolute Sink of humanity That's my thoughts. I know that it seems that way, but if you ever feel the way if you it's not no no It's not that it's just needed It's that generally when you dig into almost every single law Usually they exist for really good reasons. Yes, I agree. I agree with that 100% It's just their application and the way that the systems work in practice is pretty shit I mean, we could agree to that Well, what's shit? What do you mean? What's shit about this particular thing? Oh, no, no the particular thing I'm doing Oh, well, I'm even with that like if you think about like the whole h3h3 how much I think was expensive or whatever I know what the actual human loss is in that Um, it's really it's really sad or even the fact uh even in two good examples here um Ed sharon was like locked into some bullshit fucken corgis forever and he won It was a waste of human creativity and human life actual like a waste of a human value that's that's gonna sad if you think about it I don't agree or anything fentanyl being like it well I'm gonna win the court case down the line so pay me money come on man nobody wants that shit sure the financial aspect of our legal system in the United States right now is probably really bad I think most people agree that but that's not I don't know if you would say like law sucks you would just say that the financial aspect tied to the law in practice and in practice the money thought of it it's bad yes yes I agree I have a question so I've been listening to the conversation and I feel that the convert the the idea that there haven't been enough evidence to suggest damages seems a little odd if we acknowledge that there's a finite amount of viewers who can only create a finite amount of watch time to be distributed across all the different content platforms so we if we agree that non-transformative content counts before we get to the rest of that I think that was a thing that we were fighting earlier I don't know if that's true well that's what I was gonna say is impressions okay so not even just that like oh the viewers are going to go to other channels but it's about delivering different impressions so for example if someone thinks that sniper wolves non-transformative content registers a theft then we can say that since she has such a giant platform it's the equivalent to having a town and there's a shop where goods are sold and then basically goods are stolen from a smaller shop and then put on big shelves it's like shelf space so impressions are limited and they're finite and even if someone's not going to a different like content creator or going to watch the other person's content that still frees up shelf space inside the algorithm wrong actually I'm sorry yeah I it is not even close the analytics are losing you're absolutely wrong here's a here's a okay I will say one word one word breaks all your arguments tick tock tick tock lose your shit on all of our faces on on that very point and it makes you wrong all points why the analytics of YouTube and watch time and everything as they remain the same or better overall and it's on per it's per platform I'm saying so so it would be on talk non-transform it would be on twitch being non-transformed because for example as a twitch streamer you know or a streamer in general it seems like streamers want to say oh I've got a stream 12 hours a day 10 hours a day and I have to use the bathroom and I have to go cook food and stuff well I mean no one's forcing you to stream you can shut your stream off and then that frees up impressions in the algorithm so yeah this idea that you have to be there 10 hours a day like that's kind of bullshit right because if there's somebody like Hassan or whatever who goes off for an hour and then comes back and he's playing he could just turn the stream off here okay so here is why I don't think that's true there's a lot of conventional wisdom that says the truth here's why I don't think that happens so this is the one big example that I can think of okay back in the day on twitch there was this erroneous idea that when new games released you wanted to get into those categories because the idea was if a new game releases and xqc's playing it with 50,000 viewers when he shuts his stream off like 30,000 viewers are gonna roll over to the next stream that's right a lot of people had these ideas for a long time the reality is is that basically doesn't happen at all it would seem more like the top streamer soda or x or as my goal would play a game top streamer have 50,000 views and xql have 2,000 maybe the top streamer stops playing if he doesn't host the next guy maybe a thousand yeah what hold on real quick what I'm trying to say is that like viewers for stream are seen as like a zero-sum game but I truly do believe that there are some streamers that when they go offline people just scouted to the wind and they find other things to do they're not directly substituting another streamer for the content yeah I think you're I think you're confusing I'm not saying that they're gonna go and watch other content creators I'm saying that even if 10 to 20 to 30% of the audience stays on the platform it frees up shelf space for the algorithm to push other streamers in the place where they would have pushed the bigger streamer so it's just it's simply a shelf space argument there's a limited amount of impressions that can be served on each platform whether it's tiktok whether it's twitch whether it's YouTube there's a limited amount of impressions that can be served and so yes if there's people who are taking non transformative content ie theft if we agree it if we just agreed to whatever that is wherever the lines are drawn then basically someone is taking that content and stealing it and then putting it up and using shelf space which is finite and limited last thing I'm gonna say before I hop out because I won't I don't want to take up to a shine but okay great so excuse me the other thing that you were saying which got me thinking a lot was that like chat is a transformative element on its own and I kind of agree with that where it's like you know you consume the content and it's like its own thing however if we look at like actual fair use law for example in 2002 there was an amateur photographer a retired Marine John all basically they they bought some stamp thing or whatever and it was originally it was of a sculpture made by someone named like gay lord or whatever it's the last name quite unfortunate but anyways basically they took a picture of this sculpture and then they put that sculpture on a stamp that was 37 cents and then the post office service made 17 million right and so he sued them for fair use and the reason why I bring this up is because like transformative in chat right so it's totally I would say that this is even more of a difference than watching the content by yourself first watching it with chat because it's like well I would never go and see that sculpture in person I would never be at this like Korean War Veterans Memorial right but I might buy the stamp so it's a completely different context and a completely different audience altogether a different distribution model yet that still didn't count as fair use in court in fact it originally counted as fair use and then it was appealed and then it got overturned yeah but that would be the extent that there will be an extension of the product as merchandising which is a completely different ballgame that's any close and when you talk about impressions or watch time or whatever and you know that makes that's like actual merchandising that is an extension of the product wait wait wait wait wait why wouldn't that be similar though if we say that somebody can create merchandise off of a thing and it's not taking away from the original and it's clearly not somebody buys XQC merchandise it's not like it's hurting your stream and it's just the people that buy the merch are happy that people sell the merch make money why wouldn't this be like the exact same type of thing wait that you spoke pretty fast like I do except I actually didn't understand it if I make merch off your stream it doesn't hurt you at all I benefit and my customer's benefit so isn't that kind of a similar argument that we're using for react content if I steal your IP my audience benefits and I benefit it doesn't hurt you so it should be okay if I cannot produce that exact copy of it which is pretty much impossible then I don't really give a fuck like if I'm not currently doing that or I can't do that I mean I just let them get away with it what if you're both doing it what if it's the exact exact exact exact exact same thing it's not sure it's just one of it then the argument applies to them then fuck them yeah because obviously like you're selling your t-shirts and stuff but then you get 50% of total worldwide sales they're getting the other 50 just as a provider or an outlet would you try and stop them wait I was talking about 100% but why you would have somebody trying to make t-shirts of your shirt wait a hundred percent wait why wait if I'm making the exact same thing and it's confusing it's funny people up you're making shirts okay never mind yeah there's so many components that the merchant the merchant I think is a I really hate real life examples like stamps beer mugs dildos when we're talking about fucking react content the life people go to to get our arguments across is fucking ridiculous man I have to be honest it's disingenuous by nature well I literally we were just trying to like figure out points uh what's back in it so you said like one of the problems would be confusion right with merchandising yes confusion is very bad that that's it's why you don't want like a like like like a Jordan's this is like like a jar like okay like what the fuck like there's there's more confusion there um if I had a curiosity we could engage a hypothetical and just say there was no confusion the only reason that they buying from both is just that your warehouses like can only supply so much and so that there's a bleed over of customers and they end up going to this second supply not not good arguments not good arguments no I just want to know what you would say in that scenario oh I say fuck I'm the right the wrong word let's say I think the argument of finite impressions is ridiculous as well okay so like you say they're wrong regardless so it's not just about confusion it's about something more oh like I said it's a multi-component you feel like you can break it down yeah and it's but but I I think that the reason why they want to do that initially is that none of these in on that list apply to live streaming um and our react content if maybe what applies at 1% now you're now you're at like 0.1% overlap and you're just making another bad faith it's just like a waste of time I haven't argued anything yet I'm just starting to ask what issue you take with it beyond confusion you said confusion was one thing it confused the markets okay fair what is there any other reasons um um quality control it's not my vision it's not my product a lot of a lot of things that that when I make a product it has a multiple components that a lot of copycats will not understand and it's important for me that that that continuity goes goes across it's for me it's important right but it does it for on that point but if it's not that's fine I'm I'll just tell them like yo don't do that but there are times where like I let me get away with it yeah no sure okay so um then the scenario just changed to there's no market confusion and they they copy your system completely the quality is like top-notch it's a misunderstanding of the vision I'm sorry misunderstanding of vision no they misunderstand the vision of the product entirely they don't understand it so they're kind of like damaging it okay uh what would be like uh I'm trying to think of what you mean by that so like if they did understand the vision would it then be okay um yeah but they would never get it like a lot of things I think some of these things are pretty complicated so I don't know well excuse me you said that if you stopped streaming or you dropped off you said that you'd be easily replaceable by everyone they're just gonna instantly someone else yes okay so that that kind of proved my point because if you're so instantly replaceable my question is how do they find who replaces you well they go around they they want to but where what do they go who how do they get served what they're going around that's the impressions right it's not like they just manually go and search for people they can through the thing but it's still based on how the algorithms serve the content and organize the content on the platform for people to select yeah I think and your arguments your arguments are mostly against top-heavy and capitalistic uh but like I don't agree with that I think I think you should be able to grind and make your make your bag and fucking make your content that's not what I'm against I'm just saying if we agree that non-transformative content is a form of theft let's say and then we agree that also there's a finite amount of impressions that go around which is ultimately how content gets served then naturally your if someone's non-transforming content they're just basically stealing shelf space from people and you said it yourself the moment you'd stop you get instantly replaced how do people find your places you is they get served through the algorithm yes yes the shelf the shelf has has 100 000 slots for products right I'm sorry for selling it really good milk on 999 of those slots because the one guy had to spoil milk sorry about that it's really bad and I'm I'm killing the market entirely let's lose out on 900 bottles for the one spoiled milk one that's not what I'm saying at all I think you make great content I'm saying that if we agree that non-transformative content is a form of theft which I don't know if you agree with that but if we agree that is the case okay so you don't agree with that so yeah then then kind of moot anyways um yeah I'm saying that the shelf life argument doesn't apply and has never been proven in my opinion or from my understanding but you just said that the moment you stop streaming you're gonna get instantly replaced or someone stops they're gonna get replaced it's not like the users like have to like manually type in to find people they want to watch they really real quick real quick real quick real quick what she's talking about excuse me if I go to twitch.tv and I look on the front let's say that of these like 10 streams here let's like four of these streams are react streams she's saying that like if we're saying that stealing content is bad if we get rid of those four streams wouldn't four other streams be on this front page we'll be able to click on instead of the react streams that's what she's saying oh okay okay I think overall I don't mean to value that as an argument worth um it's not gonna worthwhile argument because at that point it's like we should shut down the casinos because people are going to the casino and they should be going to the library instead oh my god I think that's really stupid you said it yourself though people find like sniper wolf on the front page on their youtube right it's not like that's not what I said no that's not what I said at all you said that was about the points that you made there were like four points that you made about sniper wolf and one of them was that they show up on the front page of people's youtube I said one of them I said the main reason but I'm just saying that shows up for hundreds of millions of people and hundreds of millions of impressions so if she couldn't just take content like that or make that so easy then that spot will be freed up those hundred million impressions will be freed up for someone else who's making content that I want to ask oh let me ask you a question if if all of these creators you guys are just accepting him even though he might be wrong about how he feels about himself but if all these streamers are so easily replaceable why are they offering such high contracts to keep the exclusive rights or if they're so replaceable why aren't they just ushering the new wave and then just they have a momentum I don't think I when excuse he says that he's just wrong I don't know that's what I'm saying you guys are using his argument against him which is fair because he's wrong about oh my god I think he's wrong he's not replaceable like he thinks and I feel so weird because I feel like this is no you have value but like you should recognize that if you're so easily replaceable why don't they just replace you why are they paying you because I'm the fucking goat that's why what the fuck you're not replaceable goat means not replaceable right yeah but you break down the goat you broke down the goat into small pieces and other people will pick up and you're you're re you're re-purposing it a 100 percent you think that these people are like that when I go offline and I stop every just fucking dies I think a lot of them stop watching a lot of them yes stop watching content yeah yeah but a lot I'm actually with I'm with X on this one wait wait wait wait hold on excuse me you've got audiences that literally build their days around like whether you're live or not like my bet is that if you go into your stream chat on twitch I'm assuming that one is active when you're offline there's probably a ton of people that literally spamming is X going live is he live where's he at is he going live today what did he tweet like what's going on right those guys aren't watching other streams they're literally sitting in your chat waiting for you to go live like okay okay I think that's that's a big portion I think ultimately people find stuff to watch I generally believe that I'm better he's um they be paying for the fact that he's like a beacon right now you can't you can't replace you see you can't just have someone go I'm the new excuse he doesn't work that way you're wrong you're wrong because if he's so easily replaceable they control who is not easily replaceable until he's dead okay so if he's not replaceable all this talk about impressions is irrelevant you guys are saying if he's not here the impressions will go to someone else that's just not true but that's actually with the transformative argument as well if it was there's zero companies who would be offering this guy big contracts to keep them on their platforms because they can just the final those impressions anywhere they want they control the algorithm you guys the way the system works what you're saying does not make any sense true bro bro because because I I still operate I still go live I still do my thing if I disappeared entirely yes yes like I said it would spread out it would it would boom but that that that takes a little bit of time it wouldn't it wouldn't I feel like I'm arguing against you for you which is recorded okay but it wouldn't because if it would they have no reason did you just get a fucking contract from kick if they could just replace your impressions with somebody else it would change everything same thing for twitch there's no reason for them to pay you all this money if they can just funnel your impressions to some random person and all the things they were going to work it doesn't make sense you you are correct but I'm the trickle down happens if I were to stop entirely and disappear that's true I don't think that's true it's totally true your admitted it was true you just said it wasn't everyone which is true no no I think that if you were to go on twitch if you were to take the top 10 streamers and ban those 10 streamers and they didn't stream anywhere else if those top 10 streamers represented a concurrent viewership across twitch of 300 000 concurrent viewers I think of those 300 000 concurrent viewers I think maybe 20 or 30 000 would stick around that that is pretty crazy I'm more so basing my argument off youtube because I feel like youtube is like 10 times bigger than the live streaming ecosystem as a whole so when I'm talking about the impression serving I'm talking about specifically youtube so uploading non-transformative content to youtube and I don't think that you know it's like the idea of like oh just dmca I mean that just like in the argument where you're making with like property rights destiny you don't like you want that property right to be enforced without you having to manually enforce it well sure that's a fundamental now we're talking legal arguments but that is true if we think that these are property rights that are that that exist right obviously with intellectual property and with exclusive right to copy it's a little bit more intangible or less tangible than physical property but yeah you would say you would assert automatically that those rights are automatically defended the onus would be on the content violator to make an argument why they need to do it rather than saying that the person who's being violated needs to actively defend it right yeah and I think that youtube no one really leaves it it's a huge platform and there are people who subscribe to multiple channels and they just go and they click on whatever looks interesting on the front page so if someone can upload content that is non-transformative i.e theft if we agree to that definition then they're basically just taking impression space okay madame madame madame i assure you that i had an extensive look across multiple and other people have done on multiple fresh accounts people that don't watch react content very very rarely get served react content if the overlap is nearly zero in that regard okay i'm willing to have my i mean i don't really have a strong position on this i just wanted to bring this argument up because i haven't heard anyone mention impressions which are finite and they are based on a finite viewer base which that can fluctuate up and down depending on what's going on and then the total watch time that that viewer base is giving can fluctuate but there still is a finite amount of those impressions being served which is ultimately where people find and get delivered content through the yeah yeah i get i get it um i i do feel like this space is so wide right that whenever you're widening content you're you're like widening um how many people will will watch kind of overall i think you the bed these boundaries are still to this day like infinite almost like you're always pushing and pushing and more people more people have access to it more people want it and one of the reasons for that i'm saying that tick tock tick tock has made people watch more shit online overall across the board and the numbers are ridiculous you i don't think to make it the arguments you're making i wish you'd seen the actual math behind it the tick tock raw numbers it's it's alien that she is ridiculous what it's crazy it's like crazy it's like it's like i'll give them from from hell man numbers are crazy you smell i i don't know what that was are like the analytics are crazy they're like insane like how many people watch videos or like do it this until like when you look at the raw numbers they've eclipsed everything we've known before and hasn't really taken anything from anybody right it just kind of so that they're in a shelf life i just i just i just looked it up tick tock generates this might be about six months older so tick tock generates about 318 million impressions per day youtube generates 626 billion organic impressions a day it's it's like wait wait wait wait hold on tick tock only has 300 million impressions per day what that's what it says 318 million there's no that's gotta be like two orders this is posted on this is posted on june 6 2023 i can post the link i don't know if it's bad data or whatever but i mean i'm just reading it here tick tock generates about 318 million impressions per day paid advertisers can tap into about 643 or six whatever and then youtube's integration with google search gives creators uh 626 billion which i'm just curious what you're yeah i'd be glad to sure i could be misinterpreting but i mean even if it's like double inflated that's still 10 times higher here i'll post it to dm's no no yeah i said like an order magnitude or two off that just seems yeah even if even if it's off it's still that youtube is so much bigger so order magnitude meaning like times 10 like that seems like it's times 10 or times 100 off times a thousand that's something yeah so i sent you the link you can check it out but that's why that's why i'm basing my argument more so around youtube not i don't know much about the live streaming space that you you're obviously all way more into that so i'll take your word when it comes to the live streaming patterns but when it comes to youtube it's a pretty clear pattern of action and how people engage with it and it's not like people don't just go to youtube i mean maybe they have their favorite person and channel they go to and stuff but i mean people just go there when they're bored and click on whatever shows up and looks interesting i disagree i disagree i think there i think viewers are separated to different category there's some people who are gonna waste their lives on youtube i think there's other people who go in for specific creators like for me i have a couple people i like watching and then if they not on or they don't upload anything in a long time i'm off and there's a lot of people who operate that way i think a lot of us are very online in these spaces and so we think that everyone it consumes it consumes in the same way but it's just not true for a lot of users if i had to real quick if i had to guess you know based on this article that you showed my rizanna my guess would be that um when this is 318 million impressions per day what am i guess is is this is talking about advertising impressions oh yeah my guess because when this because i read what's coming for it doesn't say specifically advertisers can tap into about 643 000 of those impressions per day it specifically says but like let's just like if i scroll up it says tiktok has more than a billion users do you think a platform with a billion users and then if you scroll up before it says tiktok users spend an average of 45.8 minutes per day on the platform 45 minutes that's got to be what a thousand tiktoks there's no way that a billion users whose average time is 45 minutes are generating only 318 like that number's got to be in the billions or tens of billions that's just my guess but yeah yeah that that number definitely seems a little off but that's just what i'm seeing here so i'm welcome to more data okay okay um hey abba it's on my fucking thing man i got answer mr room bro sorry about that um i was just gonna ask um you seem like you said you changed your mind on like the whole concept of transformative uh what would you like if you know i said if i uploaded to my channel my community reacted what if my community didn't react and it was just the comment section would you count that as transformative enough i think if i went to the furthest end of the uh idea i probably could be i maybe i haven't thought about this through because i obviously my change of mind is just right now so i i don't want to down this right yeah yeah it's all good i would say i think that it's really blurred the line for me for what is considered transformative it's not right and and i think just listening to the fact that for because i know this i remember talking to somebody who says they watch a lot of twitch streamers and for them just eating their food and watching with someone else who's what reacting to the content makes them excited to and they would never otherwise watch it so for me understanding that concept even if the other person wasn't talking maybe just laughed a few times it made me realize that for them this content is completely different than what the original is but like yeah and so knowing that that that's that different for them i'm like how do i determine what is or isn't transformative when for the viewers who are watching it is completely changing the way they interact with yeah oh you know what is a good example of that um you're putting the news in the morning right this is all content right and the local news right the local news and give you a story about some fisherman who caught a fish the most boring story of all fucking time and you have it on tv it's a switching channel so you're cooking in the morning and you're watching it and you what you leave it on you don't change you don't change the fucking tv right don't change the fucking thing right and why why are you doing that one it's local it's relevant and then and then after that you might you might go to bingo tonight and theresa will say did you see the fish he caught and yeah you did and there's a lot of social aspects of it and there are a lot of components that go into why you watched it and how you're going to engage it past it right when if it was in another country in that place you want to watch it the community aspect plays a big role in it right so people want to talk about the people that are in that and in that community otherwise they wouldn't do it anyway right did you agree with that i think there's loads of aspects that can benefit from it for sure i wouldn't deny that and it's i even agree with the chat aspect is something but it feels like we've moved especially because i'm more so curious about abba's perspective right now the the presence of any form of transformative nature is like a binary now it becomes it's either not or is and as long as there's something there than it is is that yeah yeah and i think for me the issue i have is i can't really tell where that line is because it seems like it changes very drastically even off minor changes and so if i take that into consideration i have to say like even the slightest bit of change might be it no abba come on yeah because i was going to say that for me i understand the movie with your family isn't transformative is that another pvp that enters the arena bro how many bro this is a fucking brawl in this bitch if um because if you truly believed all of that like would would we be able to like you think ethically speaking i should be able to do all kinds of uploading as long as like what if i took xqc's chat from a different video and put it on to a random upload of yours i guess you wouldn't even know right well then i wouldn't know and like i said i'm not saying that what i'm saying doesn't get us in like a lot of illegal blackmire or even a moral one doesn't moral one yeah but it's it's unworkable abba you can't have that i mean then what wouldn't be transformative to that view i mean i could go get a hot dog in my viewing experience would be different than without the hot dog what wouldn't be transformative but listen i think it's one of those things where if you were to sit me down and say this is not transformative i could see how but i think there's a lot of content that you guys would consider that a lot of people would look at it like i don't think it is so i'm just saying the line isn't clear and even though you guys only not see it just the fact that xqc is on the screen for them is often enough or mr chair or mr chair mr chair for that matter also i swear to god i am not kidding about this most of my chat most of my chatters which is they only chat here because they like chatting here right i think you wouldn't put a video in front of them right in front of them and they would want and you will swap all the components and you wouldn't you don't even tell them outblind and you would add or remove them on chat right they would notice 100 and they would know something is up 100 right so the small intricacies of of us being the way we are right now right it's noticeable 100 and that has value to them so can you watch Oppenheimer with your chat there as a transformative piece of you would say yes surely why not why not why not why not well because they don't want they don't want me to know i know but could you do it and do you think that you should be allowed to um well see the um whenever we approach these arguments right people always go to the movie as a god i'm dude a little bit am i been in i absolutely think i should be able to 100 yeah i think it's consistent but there is no copyright then at that point right there's no copyright but i would love to work with them and to knowing when i could do it and and for how long on what dates and i would work on campaigns because i would love to do that and then i could i could even have an agenda of when we're doing certain reacts and match up with if i can love that shit they would love it yeah they would love it for you to work with it's for Nolan but what if no one doesn't want to work with you and what if he's like not he's gonna catch you up they don't be poor they will be broke-ass bitches because they're failing to understand a new opening the market and they're failed visionaries i'm the visionary film and you are the visionary fucking nothing if you don't understand that there's value anymore if you they don't if they don't uh i understand that there's value in watch parties do you get it yeah but no there's value there but there's also value in streaming the ufc on your on your stream and hosting it there oh i would love that i have no problem with people streaming the ufc from a complete moral standpoint but if you're talking about legal the only reason people don't do is because they feel like it's legally wrong that's it this is a cop that when you guys are talking about the law and moral and dividing it this way you guys think that there should be a moral right to some kind of property entitlement to your kind of creative content you all do and honestly x uc is already conceded like in the beginning basically the what do you say a maximum maybe a day a week like you want all of it to be free of that so we can all react to everything right well no you shouldn't be able to like sell his shirts if he's making shirts that's so he believes in some amount of creative kind of touched on that it wasn't right yeah i mean that's all the touch here cut that that's all the touch you're like no why well because i at one point i don't want to sell a t-shirt right and it has poison in it and somebody and it's like oh well i was just trying to buy extreme urchin i somebody's getting hurt by it like that there's a lot of ways that they could be dangerous that could be true of anything that's being hosted there maybe you could say that the platform that's hosting it is dangerous it's leading people actually a real example this probably happened to ux there are some people that i wish would have never watched any of my content because they've poisoned the well so hard against me to other audiences because they've shown selectively like one or two clips of mine right well yeah yeah all erroneously editing it to make you look worse than you actually are sort of thing you all think that there should be some rights to creative expression and that there should be some exclusive rights and maybe that right is so thin that just watching a film with my family is transformative but but if that's true then the copyright means nothing at that point if it's just having a chat then that means that yes yes even play any music you want at all times throughout the day because yes his chat will do funny memes and pepes yeah but but why do you think amazon sees value in watch parties enough that they have a big catalog that opens up with people that with uh with prime i can do watch parties on twitch it's a massive advancement for life's a perfect example yeah and i think we're going in these directions in a very quick fashion and it's the possibilities are endless and possibilities and any argument against amazon for amazon it's an endless possibility for amazon and the fact that you say that you see value is that is acknowledging that they're going to monetize it and they're going to make money and they're going to make their back and they don't want you to make their back whether their their intentions are pure or not the value for the consumer is there regardless and if other people fall in their steps and that with other the other other pieces of content other people see value and find other ways to make money and it'll develop as a as a as a as a sphere like as a um but who has a right to exploit that value who can who gets to decide right so you guys are all saying well it's beneficial in this way and it's worse than in this way but the fundamental question is who decides who decides what is done with this like you get to decide for someone else that you know better how to monetize their stuff and you know better than them how to properly market the stuff and make sure that they're maximizing well i don't i don't i don't think i do i i know i do a hundred percent because because companies pay me a hundred thousand dollars for one hour playing their game they don't think that the marketing value they have at their game is pretty it's pretty massive therefore if i like that product and i want to engage with it and give me a good argument for it then i can market the product in a no way that they can because of my interest on it and people's interest in my interests purely wait hold on pisco let me pisco let me ask you this right it's not even about the content being transformative at this point x generally believes that he's providing oh my god the people that is reacting yes it's a new fucking competitor in the arena okay so he's actually saying they should be grateful that i'm reacting to their fucking content and it's giving them exposure therefore i'm helping them that's what he's basically fucking saying yeah even agree well whether i agree with that i think it's probably true in some cases and it's probably not true in other cases um so i think that the the market for like netflix would go away if steven could just host whatever movie he wants all the time on or at least the market would be diminished i think because people will just watch whatever movies they want with with that thing not even close to it not even close okay tonight you might watch a movie right might want to be which one why which who at what time all these components are key in what you're gonna watch it's free it's no wait wait you there are a lot of component there's a lot of reason why you're gonna watch something right yeah okay so we're good we're very good with that okay now now you think that destiny watching uh uh fly over the cuckoo's nest at three in the morning is going to destroy the ecosystem and and cannibalize the maybe not netflix it wouldn't be just destiny right it would be maybe yeah yeah maybe not that case but now imagine that everyone right because you're not going to say that destiny has better or more less rights than someone else right everyone else is similar situated in destiny hundreds of thousands they should have right they should they should have the same rights at least you agree with that right dex wait sorry what was that everyone should have the same right to stream oppenheimer that destiny or you have right absolutely not absolutely no no right so i'll leave you guys wait why not why not um because when it comes down to that form of content the the the people okay so here's the that content this is a watch party it's a little bit different than just then just react right it's a little bit different uh in in my opinion what for is that to be a little more pure it's why a lot of times they ask you to have a camera upper left that small pixels it's a uh the the the the the actual finished product of the react they expect it to be not to transform everything actually they don't want to do that too much because um it's just their vision for it and i actually agree with that i i generally agree with that and it's why some people that if they want to be full camera mode or to go up again with their dick out well that's bad for the critical vision that was behind the movie initially and actually be able to respect that and it was what you do to case like case basis you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong everyone should be able to because so long as people find it transformative then that's it okay so that's because well but excuse me saying the community needs to be there if you don't have one yeah so 20 viewer andy's 20 viewer andy's can all have their movie streams so now you have every single movie has their own 20 viewer andy's on it and you can do it every 20 viewer exactly and to be if you make if you make the limit 20 viewers as well you can just bought 20 yeah sure i don't know why you couldn't and yeah you're right you're right so what you're saying is that is that is that um there's an overlap in market with a certain movie or some movies and basically what you're saying is that some guy that really wants to watch uh narnia will watch destiny right when he's scratching his balls when the video has eight minutes of one time left right because if i miss the start time they don't care about that and then they'll click i can watch narnia he clicks in because he's scratching his balls for eight minutes no that doesn't cannibalize the market if on if on monday destiny watches narnia tuesday star wars thursday indiana jones when i go to watch star wars on wednesday i just look at destiny's vaudean load up the chat right then i create an ecosystem where his movie choice is good and i would like that and destiny has value at that point past the value of the movie itself but holy shit he can just he can just host the movies all the vods of every single movie he's ever watched with the chat right next to absolutely and if people love it that's great i'm gonna say i'm gonna say something even more weird i think but you agree with this out you agree with this dystopian universe hey hey this is how your things should be yeah they laugh that you guys you guys laugh and i'll be right one day and you're gonna look like a bunch of fucking clowns bro i i think if the and you will be bald and broke true i think if the market is demanding for it i think we're we're essentially uh barring people from a product that they would actually really like so i think it's bad for that reason uh and and i think if a product they want is free movies we bar people from products they like all the time and i think there's a probably a world in there where i think some form of revenue sharing would be necessary i think that's something that you could reasonably talk to me where it's like you know if you're gonna create this experience which is better than the original piece of art then i think there should be a revenue split for the original creator in a way that's equitable okay yeah i would think would be reasonable without a point for a large segment of the audience who are watching these reactors or whatever it is for them the the content that they're re they're watching uh from the react channels is superior to the original and so i think there's a service being rendered that i think we would be robbing people of one yeah i think there's no incentive to make it anymore what was that there's no incentive to create this stuff anymore you're wrong if we don't it was why i said if there was an equitable revenue shares okay so is x gonna stop giving revenue to the videos he covers they can't even get health care they can't even get like profit sharing and you want to take out their like last about amount of income from hollywood there's a big strike right now from the right side pick us on out what the fuck man i just agree i disagree because even though there's a huge market for this react stuff a lot of people still like watching it the original way in in the format that it was meant to be well i thought x's point was that we're going to be moving toward everybody liking the social aspects going to in fact destroy the original markets x argued against himself this whole night and been wrong about him's his own well do you think he's right do you think he's right just because he said it doesn't mean he's right about the future i disagree with him on that point okay really i disagree that reactions are whatever saying to be the future i think there's always going to be a market for people who just want to go to the movie theater and watch it with nobody fucking bothering people why don't you get the right to the reaction stream like who gave you the right like if there's a monetary avenue or pathway for someone to exploit the react market why is that in alba's hands for star wars episode seven and not in disney's hands why why do you get it yeah oh shit okay you know what yeah guys yeah yeah please don't want that argument i swear i don't want to move my idea okay i'm louis i'm i'm cutting you off my bad okay listen otherwise i'm a dhg out of my idea and i'm gonna lose it but then wait wait for this again this is actually this is an argument okay you would the components that are being misunderstood and and um uh deliberately mistalked about a lot of this really small stuff adds up like crazy and here's a good example okay um um during world cup for the fucking uh you know i don't even watch that much of soccer right there's world cup happening with first soccer right uh fucking football right and then and then i put um 650k on uh on a team fucking it was uh it was france or what the fuck right that they were gonna that they were gonna win and and um i had talked about it put that in right and everybody knew about it the whole thing and it was gonna it wasn't even a big thing i didn't think during that day i wasn't even reacting to the game i didn't even have any of it on it right i noticed after this after the stream so you point out that oh look at the stats i look at my stats i had like 30k more average who's i normally get and i didn't pay attention to any of it right people found value in that little storyline of that little bet and they're to the point where literally there was an increase of like 30 percent to five percent of viewers overall that's insane that is a crazy amount of value that you that you're losing because just because oh this is no value lovable you i think that's wrong and you should be the maximum that's not no hold on that's value to you that's not value to the world cup or to the fucking organizers my viewers have one hand on the keyboard one hand on their dicks and they don't walk soccer yet they all cared that day why because i cared that's fucking stupid because that's still just fucking benefited you did they go on and watch the other matches when you weren't reacting to it wait i can see now they're interested i can say this was 100 30 if a bunch of twitch creators started streaming the world cup and talking about it i guarantee you that the world cup viewership in the long run would grow tremendously the reason being is that these people and their influence is a net benefit to soccer as a whole now again i still talk about this what are you communist i mean the reason things are put on is to come off of your mouth because that was the most you thought a point you've made absolutely fucking is that another guy what a guy okay get away hold on this is this how dumb you are q they pay for they pay for celebrity endorsements every fucking year for people who know nothing about football because it benefits their sport having people who can get viewers onto a topic is always profitable it's almost like you guys took marketing 101 threw it out the fucking window and joined this conversation it is always valuable to have people who have loud voices and reach to be interested in your fucking topic it's always i want every day always hold on hold on hold on you know that the entire argument that x is pushing forth is when i am involved and i transform it enough that's when people get interested nobody would have fucking watched let me know video from my fucking community if i didn't fucking react to it that's what he's fucking saying how about i tell you how about i tell you this he doesn't have to transform it he could literally just show up on screen and be like we're watching soccer and it's a net benefit to football as a whole as a whole so we should get the world cup it doesn't even matter i'm gonna say it it's enough him being interested in it benefits the sport well let's say then that anyone can stream the world cup and they should be able to yeah um i'm curious to why do you think we ended up this way i have said from the beginning from a legal standpoint i disagree with it from a moral standpoint i think it is a net positive okay but if they benefit why would they have made laws to prevent it because they're thinking about the short-term financial game that's what i believe like they're foolish they don't realize they could win if there was no value in that then we wouldn't we wouldn't have it music streaming it these music downloads any of that we should have CDs and cassettes we don't have that shit and and and just this distribution that's not the same thing and a lot of sports have already begun doing watch parties or watch lungs for their sports because they see the benefit of having these audiences interested that's why they're partnering up with creators and stuff like that to create those kind of watch events so yes it could be archaic maybe they have an advance in terms of the world of marketing it could be the fact that they've not caught on to this technology which a lot of industries haven't but the truth is all these watch parties these viewers bring how about take take fucking uh what's his name speed him showing an interest in football has gotten a bunch of americans who never gave a shit about football obsessed with ronaldo and obsessed with the sport of football as a result it is absolutely changing the way people consume this content who should get the right to let me use your logic let me yeah one one second let me use your logic out but if fucking x reacted to oppenheimer why the fuck would then the audience like let's say 60 70 000 people that watch this fucking watch a long part whatever why would they go to the cinema and pay for some shit that they got for free which is why which is why i said earlier there should be an equitable way to have some revenue share i agree that even on the stream not on the and i think i think that's the future also embargoes that timed embargoes are fine well wait wait wait that's okay dude does that go for youtube content as well that he reacts to like the videos that he does that go for that as well as it's only for yes yes i tweeted that and i told him youtube to do that actually that's how much i believe in it 100% yeah what about it i agree i think there should be a revenue system for the original content i'm not even mad at that even for me i would think that was something equitable even for my channel yeah the revenue show is called copyright the revenue stream is called copyright and that gives you the exclusive right to make copies no yes it is of course it is it's not that yo captain yo law andy bro where's your degree man what is wrong this guy bro also i'm confused like you're saying that in the perfect world you would be having a revenue split but you're not you're not making that happen right now you're just taking the videos anyway well do you want me to start hitting up hold on do you want me to start asking all these people and be like yo what if you react if you react to well no i'm asking do you actually believe in it or not if you're asking stop being a veggie signaling bitch and actually do it before it's forced upon my god yeah that's what i'm saying i would 100% say this topic is not that important to me that i would go through the effort to set up my answer i would put in the effort to figure out a payment system that would work this well now if you to implement it i would process and i would go through it you're asking me to create the system like oh why don't you set it all up basically you're just not on a basically you're just virtually signaling acting like you give a fuck by saying you know what i 100% beat down to fucking give a fucking red split with these fucking guys that i'm reacting to because i'm making money off of their content but i'm not going to go out of my fucking way to do anything because you know what i mean hold on real quick i think we all agree with abba i think that like the actually the perfect comparison of this is way way way back in the day a lot of people used to pirate games but oftentimes it's just because that was the easiest way to get the game sometimes you don't have the money true we would pirate music games just because that was the easiest way to get it but if you provide like an easy way to pay for it people would do it like and that was what steam did and what steam came out people buy so many games that they have no problem like buying is on every play so i think it's not that hard it's not easy way to compensate the creatures it's it's a very easy you dm them no it's not it's not this is why you have no following because you don't understand the system the process of trying to get paid or being able to pay everyone would be very difficult one if you've ever had to work with content creators in regards to ad placements things like that they're notoriously bad for responding they're bad about getting all these things set up everything is a time taking process in terms of administrative burden for me it would be immense to be able to set up the system in place so everything shows that when you make a lot of things convenient vast majority people will go that route even if it's ethical but if you the ethical thing is very difficult to do a lot of people will skirt around it they will go around it that's true for a lot of different things like the piratey example you gave or other things like that so you're just factually wrong about how abba if you own the system in place if i genuinely go ahead oh thanks if if you genuinely believe that people should be paid like i probably would as well if i was to watch your video and barely react to it and then in my own head be like oh shit i should probably compensate for this i don't need like a system set in place to make me do it or to know exactly what i believe it's actually better now than then because i can decide what i believe is worth what i believe i've taken from you without you getting compensated i can compensate you directly i can donate to you so even then it's not about what i decide what if you the person i'm reacting to disagree with the amount then we have a negotiation process which is more administrative burden that way if there was already system in place the revenue share would be based off an equation that we all agree to you're talking about making it easier you're not considering all the parameters here's the thing that every single streamer here would agree with if there was a way that you could click a button on a video where it's like 20 to have on your youtube channel i think every streamer who would be or in youtube would be totally fine with paying for that yeah i think i think xkc is talking about like the future of different like video watch parties and stuff i think it would be a huge task but if there wasn't a way to integrate like all the different platforms in a way that you could like give permission so that you get like a percentage of the view count added to your actual views and you know you know i will go i will quadruple down to the point where it's gonna make you mauled i think some of you guys in here are actual like socialists like the values communist andes i'm gonna tell you ass out i believe it i believe that uh there's value to these companies and some people are really gonna get paid to watch it let alone pay them to watch it they will get paid to watch it because these systems are top heavy as fuck it is so and it's unfair and it's just the way it is and they're fighting that it's stupid as fuck i think it's ass backwards i think destiny is the communist he's the one who says he shouldn't have any copyrights and then it should all be spread and he should be able to make star wars channel content i don't know why like you guys don't think that creator should have any control over their expressions the whole reason why there are burdens to hold on wait control over their expressions you got a hardcore to find that because the exclusive right to make copies derivative works yeah the argument that everybody here is using the reason why we don't really believe in exclusive rights here is because that seems to be a detriment to every single actor in the space except for the person creating the content that's why that's been the prevailing argument because you want to encourage the creation of these works in the first place i don't know why there would be a reason to treat i mean all right copyright hold on oh you didn't know what i was going to ask right well but what you just said doesn't make sense okay the reason why you have an exclusive right to create copies is because you're protecting a potential future revenue stream 90% of the time that's why we talk about exclusive copyrights but not always whoa not always we were just talking before xqc mentioned that one of the reasons why he wants exclusive rights to copies is he doesn't want to be associated with any bad people who are making poisonous shirts or who are making bad shirts and so the copyright right that might be more than copyright already doesn't protect you from that copyright already doesn't protect you from that necessarily more about that there are there are ways theoretically people can incorporate things into their content that you don't want to be associated i might not want to be associated with bench appear on any way size shape or form that doesn't mean that he can't uh cover my commentary with some fair use okay now you're mistaken because now what you're talking about is whether or not your copyright extends to cover fair uses of your work which of course it doesn't sure i'm just saying that if your entire point of copyright was to protect you from being associated with things you don't want to associate with that doesn't make sense because fair use defeats that point so that argument makes no sense no no no it doesn't defeat that argument it's so if you are uh someone who's going to be infringed upon there are a lot of situations in which you might not want that monetary stream you might not agree with having uh you might not agree with netflix you might not agree with movies on demand you might not give her read calvin and hobbs anybody uh there's sure it's the kid in the tiger thing uh he didn't want any of his stuff made into movies because he just didn't want it and his copyright protected derivative works and so no movies about calvin and hobbs exist you might just agree with it but the copyright extends to protect those interests sure it could but i think the argument it does don't just say it could because you lost that argument most of your arguments are completely defeated but if you oh no you just lost that argument you said it was all about monetary streams and you were totally wrong the main purpose that we're talking about in here is generally monetary streams that's what everybody here's been talking about the you might be talking about that but it's that's what we're all talking about you might want to talk about something but that's what all of us are talking about well you recognize that other people care about copyright for other reasons this year well all of us in here are talking about the ability to lose money on your content and so well not anymore now we're talking about more than that because i'm well and desi remember as long as it has been demonstrated that's one of the reasons why most people in here didn't care as much about it remember you mentioned people like tearing up your work and repurposing it for their own like purposes you'd want to be able to protect against that as well right theoretically but they can do that in a fair use way that you might still have a problem with i wouldn't if it was fair use if it actually qualifies because that sounds like criticism that's fine but there are some people for instance that i would if i if i had my choice i might never want them criticizing my work i might never want like nick fuentes or the storm front like using any part of my content to spread their message but they might have a fair use application that would allow them to do so at that point yeah i would i mean i think they should be allowed to do that even if you don't want that's fine i'm just saying yeah i'm just saying that if your original intention of the fair use here or the original intention of copyright is i don't want to be associated with certain people it doesn't necessarily protect you from that fair enough it should protect you what it should protect you the prime purpose of copyright is what it should protect you for is the exclusive right to make copies of your content in a nontransformative way to and derivative works right you think that it works okay and other non transformative wait no a derivative work is very transformative isn't it don't you agree i thought the whole point of a derivative work was that it didn't meet the standards for transformative well a derivative work is one of the many exclusive rights that copyright gives you do you mean like if you want to make yeah like a sequel like a um a different version of the same thing like let's say remember those game boy versions of movies right that's a derivative work of the original movie i don't know the original pokemon movie maybe you have a game boy version of that that you want you have the right to make it or maybe you don't want someone to be transforming your work what i just i can apply to derivative works as well and i don't think it changes my side yeah but why like why do you think that copyright should have so little consideration that anyone can make you know just by do you agree with abba that just by having a chat you should be able to like yeah i was actually gonna ask if you consider that transformative destiny do you personally think that's transformative as i i would never use transformative in a casual sense i would use transformative in terms of like the law and transformative just having a chat there probably doesn't meet that standard you don't like have your own view on what transformative should qualify as rather than what the law is uh here comes guys we're gonna have an era of people that are just changing the color schemes doing using chroma keys or opacity and backwards fucking reversal like half time that was 0.8 time fucking bullshit it's gonna be at the exact you don't want none of that so i swear you don't want that or the guy who watches ufc through his glasses or like like fake playing the game oh man i we've been through these fucking hoops before yes and i can i ask the question real quick as a small content creator so many people in here why it's really let him go wait it's gonna be destiny it'll be real quick yeah so as a small content creator if according to abba and xqc like if so if my content is like like i make a lot of like videos about gang violence and stuff so say like a very racist like the neo-nazi's gotta hold on my video and they made they made a video reacting to it but was just saying like a bunch of racist shit and just completely um distorting my work i should have no recourse in that like is that what you guys don't know that is that's how the law works right now and that probably should be the case if somebody's making fair commentary criticism on your work then they that is a protected right in the united states but what if it isn't fair commentary and criticism what if it was just like a copyright protection as you can dmc out or sue them but i think the law comes from both sides of these yeah but i always worry about your piffy will you guys are argue yeah what you guys are arguing for is that i shouldn't have any recourse in that oh is that what you guys said well yeah x because your argument theoretically earlier was that like if people want to take in your content then they should just be a lot of yeah yeah yeah exactly it's just whenever you put in the harsh way you can have baiting me may make an argument that'll make me look like a racist or some shit it was just really odd you guys because i don't because i generally like i i still hold my argument i just want to say whoa guys well yeah you should be allowed to be racist well and that's not what i meant so at all right but what you're arguing for would would allow for that like there there's no uh caveat that says what like how you should be can behave what you're saying is i should have full rights to do whatever i want with this person's content as long as i'm you know they're reacting to it as long as chats there i can you know basically do whatever i want with this person's content yeah yeah i i i i still agree i mean we still do that to this day though don't we we use old books and old things that were meant to be used a certain way and we we reference it and then we use it and in uh commentary and what the fuck and we go directly against it and i think that's still within the boundary of the laws and if any that's fair enough okay um all right i'm not here to argue i just wanted to just pass it real quick all right thanks bye okay quick update to everybody in chat i have i had to leave the call because he's busy wiping excuse he's come off of his fucking mouth number one bro your arguments are literally don't make any fucking sense you know that right you're saying because i have a lot of this guy's like john zirga on two books like holy shit okay don't fucking do that shit that's fucking pathetic number one number two your argument is because i have a lot of fucking clout i should react and do whatever the fuck i want because i'm providing value in terms of fucking viewership now of course you're not making any fucking any fucking money let me know or fucking nolan with your fucking open high movie but you should be grateful that i'm getting people into your shit in the future that's a terrible fucking argument if i saw all of your fucking vods and i just uploaded everything and i started making a ton of money without you doing shit because in reality you don't do shit you're not fucking jinx or flight or any of these 2016-17 youtubers that actually transform the content that they watch most streamers are lazy as fuck you basically don't do shit with your reaction just sit there and post funny faces is this guy trolling well flight will literally fall asleep on our smoke weed during content what are you talking about is this guy high you literally fight that oh my god your own fucking argument right now you're saying but you just sitting there and you having your own fucking club that just helps it so if flight is fucking doing the same thing it's transformative to you no yes yes what i'm saying is that i think there's a world or that ecosystem is fine and people are like yeah i want that this is good and i'll leave it be able to go on it no it's not by the fault of an estimation go you can talk you're gonna interact you can make these systems work you can make like libraries and shit there's ways to do it now listen i think we have you first of all i fuck with react content i like react content since 2017 i think react content is though as long as you're fucking giving credit to the guy who fucking made the video and they're cool with it if they're cool with it then it's it's fine if let me know said yo i'm cool with x reacting to my he was it's fine yeah so i don't have a problem with you doing that shit but let's just agree that you taking from them does kind of fucking fuck their shit up because that's a viewer that they could have had wait wait the guys is yes and you say no so if i if i go if i go to your ex girlfriend and and and i seduce her and we start fucking and say well no i don't agree like this will make me wrong like what the fuck if you say no that doesn't okay okay wrong jesus fucking christ the fucking guy that you want to react to says no you're not gonna react to him right what if the guy that you want to react to his fucking video if there's a youtube you want to react to his video and you reach out him because i assume you reach out to these people yes i do not before a lot in the after okay now you do it right and he says no you're not gonna react to his shit right wait what and he says well don't react to my shit you're not gonna react right i guess you could find for this argument you found the worst guy out there i will clap your cheeks not only did they get asked about i literally have a system with them so it's yes and no and so i've stopped watching the videos and it's all fixed and everybody's happy i have no problems with anybody right now okay again we agree there but the only place we don't agree is when you say that you're actually providing any value you you provide value for yourself like you said with the world cup example your exclusive it's it's both bread no no it's not no it's not what did let me know benefit who the fuck what the fuck did he benefit from your fucking shit he didn't benefit his video was already fucking doing great hey hey hey hey hey kid listen listen here's the benefits you are talking about him right now that right there he's in a value right you just prove me right by money by you right now you brought me right right now right now right now you are mulled you are mulled does he get money you wait 120 soak it wet stop talking shit does he get money from you god he's gonna get extra from all that we'll give him money and we'll give him views yes he will make money because xqc reacted to him it's because x it's because of content that's the fucking headline right what what xqc's reacting to him right then why do i care what why do i whatever you call it it's not what it is if you're mad about it you are not him you are not him i'm trying to fucking you are not i don't care man you're trying to act like every video that you react to has the same exposure as the let me know one you've reacted to a billion things on your fucking stream they don't all go as fucking they still benefit and out of that are not cannibalistic in behavior whatsoever it is not cannibalistic and there's no data behind it that will show that it isn't and if there is i'm waiting for you to show me otherwise you're arguing okay let me ask you okay let me ask you this do you think they monetarily fucking benefit do you think the people that you react to down the line they do yes i don't get that shit okay you made the statement go prove it down the line they make for it prove it wait you make the claim and you made the thing that they don't write that's made the claim that they do that's no it's on you to fucking prove it wait wait wait they absolutely don't wait wait a minute they make more money they don't wait wait it's it's it's literally all on twitter i don't even have to go dig and dig it up now i literally it's all out there the people i have shown stat increases across their other videos and increases when when react kicked in it even even if a little bit it's still a positive and that equates the dollar amounts and that is tangible and you know the gives it do not rob this guy i know everything for you what you are not you're fighting shadows you're being fucking with tater right now i don't care if you're a shadow you are you are you're right you're a shadow you are you're right you're right okay thank god you have money because that's the only thing that's holding your fucking skinny that's right and i got a whole bunch of it and i got a whole bunch of it so get fucking seated get seated and get to hear about me bro i don't even know what you're reacting to god this is listen x i don't care that you react to fucking content when i fucking give a slight shit about is you trying to fucking cope with yourself and lie and say you know what these people benefit so much from me reacting to them that it's good for them they should be fucking thankful that i'm reacting to that i didn't say that wait you literally just said they benefit from the line they make more money they do but i didn't i didn't do the little attitude of they should take me for that they should they mean oh wait but you also said that only big guys should have these fucking contracts or these things where they get to react to fucking content or whoa whoa that's what abba pushed back against he was like no it should be open to everybody when you are like no it should be open yeah because it's about the creative vision if you had any you wouldn't be in this room right now bitch ass you get that it's about the creative vision yo what's the creative vision behind you reacting to shit you lazy bitch what's the creative vision between before before we did that shit it wasn't around that much extension for live content we are visionaries you are ancestral you are ancient you are old you are be a visionary you're not a fucking visionary you were an overwatch and you are mad you are mad because you are bad brother you fucking found the wheel a thousand years after i was invented that now you're acting as though you fucking came up with a new thing okay and what have you come up with except for talking shit the only thing you came up with is the most retarded fucking arguments to fucking cope with all i get it he's another one of these guys that's mad because we were banking on low effort when he's making nothing of a higher person you admit that it's low effort you admit that you're not really doing what you call it yes yes yes where's the creative genius behind it okay tell me the creative genius is the social aspect behind it the chat aspects and how these are exploited to make a better full-fledged product if you enjoy watching more than enjoy watching your ass do one of the fuck you do bitch okay never get so simple but not a but then guess what i could fucking go watch the super bowl or i could watch the world cup final socially with my fucking friends with my fucking people and no friends though they have no friends oh you didn't pay for shit yeah i have fucking friends they go the only friends you have are niggas that are trying to show up with the bait yes he fell for the bait brother brother congratulations you fucking made a shit joke i'm fucking no no no no no no you fell for the bait the whole point the whole point is that you want to have no friends and they're gonna watch it with their with their internet people in their communities and they don't have friends it gives very for them even though you might go watch it with your friends they don't have that option let me watch it and they watch it instead okay okay okay sure all your fucking juicers are some fucking lowly motherfuckers and that's right attached to you yes that's why they fucking watch okay perfect i understand cool that makes sense i agree with you but would you be willing let's say a fucking chris no or whatever the fuck his name is christopher no he says okay x pay a hundred fucking thousand and i'll let you react to my goddamn fucking movie with your chat would you pay it oh fuck yeah but then i'll make an event out of it so you're done for compensating people for the fucking work you're open to actually compensate it's not only permission wait it's not only here i think all of us said that right i've always said that no but i said that's all no he's no i i said i would pay them they can clean the videos they can take them down i would give them my rev i i i i'm open for when we talk together we do some stuff that's fun okay so you're completely 100 billion percent open to give when you react to shit and you upload it to youtube you're open to give the fucking money from that youtube revenue all of it yes 100 percent all right okay niggas that are complaining about this is retarded if that's the case i'm sorry i'm sorry yep if this niggas willing to give you the fucking money he makes all the fucking reactions you take that fucking deal now you get now you get it now you actually get it but the thing is my problem with all this hasn't been the problem like the people that are complaining is that they complain on other people's behalf because the people they grew that are on the receiving end or or on the robbed end of it then we're gonna agree with the people that are fighting for them they don't because they enjoy the ecosystem that we've created it okay so the people that you're fucking pulling content from are more than happy to give it to you because they're like this is fucking cool that you're reacting to it yeah i don't mind all i'm saying is when you decide to argue that you're a creative genius because of this react fucking meta you're not why i am not you're not you're not it's okay right when you decide to argue that because i react to somebody they're fucking future videos do way better for way longer therefore they make way more money i'm kind of still fucking getting them paid in some ways therefore it's beneficial that's the only part of your argument i have a problem with everything else makes sense but when you try to claim that you're actually super helpful when in all reality you're still kind of slightly fucking them over because that's a viewer that they could have had because if i watch your reaction to fucking let me know oh i've never watched this video that's it damn you know you know what i i i it's kind of sad you went to this argument because we went again we went against it earlier of that one thing most of my viewers not every one of them they would not watch that particular content if we weren't watching it here at that time they actually wouldn't the overlap is not only negligible it was nonexistent compared to the opposite you would have a you would have to prove the opposite when would i have to prove that because my overlap is proven to not be there so you're wrong right out okay okay okay let me argue this then let me argue this then if we're seeing youtube videos and we're seeing them the same as movies right you're seeing them the same right you would pay for both equally you don't have a problem with giving the fucking movie studio money you don't have a problem with giving the youtuber money if everybody because we're not talking about xqc only if everybody decided because you said you're a creative fucking genius this is your visionary you're the one who's pioneering the new movement if everybody started doing what xqc you love that you fucking bitch has taken okay if everybody decided to do what you're doing and decided to react to fucking movies decided to react to fucking content that's behind the paywall why would they then go watch the original content there's no point maybe for youtube videos there's no we just went over that because wait because i wanted to watch it here with us because they're no friends but at the end of the day you said shit to stop heavy and you're against shit being top heavy you want everybody to fucking eat and you think why it's gonna help people oh fuck that shit no i'll give a fuck i don't give a fuck if they eat it bro i'm not gonna virtual signal i it bo it only benefits you right oh my god you misinterpret everything that i said you misinterpreted everything i don't give a fuck to spread the wealth or do whatever the fuck i that i'm not gonna virtual signal that that's the main point here that is has nothing to do with it i still think that has positive effects to do that literally it is not negligible the positive impacts but i'm not gonna say that it's that's the full point of it i'm not saying that when does it end so what's the main point behind the shit that you do is just that it's because i want to have fun yeah and if you could help fucking people out by paying for shit for shit you're gonna pay for it i i i would give them a 10x depending on their size yes okay all right then we agree honestly we agree then there's no problem cool then yeah that's that's that's very enough to be honest i don't give a resolution but stop reacting to my video i'm not gonna lie when my videos react to my videos it is the one when i get that fucking wire transfer buddy react to my shit what the fuck i like how he got the john this is the greatest time of all time what the fuck he's got baby 10 every day for money every time you're on stream they get every time okay you guys are done okay thank you okay how do you you got your debate prep max how you feeling yeah they should make like a youtube premium for streamers you know i mean you pay for it it gives them like a kite just for like all the the content there is now is shut the fuck up kick.com slash karantos q o r a oh my god so okay well i i like it you know you know what doesn't mean doesn't mean the reason why i didn't react and i know that you're reacting to people playing that shit you know the whites like that because at the at the end of the day knowing that matters with getting people's attention right and actually make a good good content is substance and substance is something you create by doing things of value and i don't give like somebody's plot it's very struggling already when they're plugged their shit i don't feel threatened i don't know why because even though they might go there they won't stay there because the people has failed to create value time and time again it's why they have to plug it the fact that they plug it is the is the reason why they have to plug it that makes sense so it's like who asked who asked x oh my god like clearly none of you viewers there's none here holy fuck there's nothing wrong with plugging by the way i'm sure your ass fucking plug shit back in 20 fucking 60 okay listen you can't knock a brother because he's on his early part of his journey that's fine relax relax okay i i don't actually human now go ahead you don't knock it but what no i don't i don't knock it i think i think i think there's even conical value to some of it if you provide content i think i think you're pretty funny to be honest and i i don't have no problem with this interaction you provide enough content for this broadcast to to to be valued at least with some sort of exposure right and where you plug it i don't care if you went when hearing we're like guys i i don't agree guys and he said what's on this last bump fight bump fuck and it's like oh come on man like at least give us some value right that's what it is we're gonna react and that's the whole base of it that's the whole base of argument especially with react to it's the same thing so basically i provided enough transformative content to this broadcast that i've earned the right to shout myself out just like you did with your reactions basically okay yeah okay and when you're gonna compliment me at least you know tell me you're gonna go downstairs because right now like no i didn't know you're gonna glaze me that hard you know you know it's not like you know it doesn't mean you know like it's not like slicker and i don't know i i saw loud and annoying loud and annoying no substance and ends up quitting i hope you know i hope that you do i hope you do well though i promise it doesn't wait when you make it it doesn't you can say i was your biggest hater okay wait i already have a lot of those okay but if i'm like slicker yo king can i borrow like 10k oh here comes what you said i'm like slicker i knew it what yo king help her brother out i assumed you helped slicker what the fuck actually you paid for the whole fucking thing yeah i did the fuck what the fuck he owes you 200k wait are you actually expecting him to pay everything back no but i mean i know i know you won't but the whole whole point the whole narrative of it is that he should right um that was the whole narrative so you're not gonna say no you're not gonna say no if he's like i'm not i'm not i say no i know it's not gonna happen but i mean that that that's the whole that that was the whole gist of it right is that if down the line you'll you'll pay or or strikes gold and and boom sure i'll take it right but but it was all about the victims not about the perpetrator in this instance and that's why i did it it was about the victims it was not about getting paid back as well by helping yeah exactly yeah exactly because i heard the stories and it was really bad so i was like fuck it okay i'll fuck with that the girl with the cancer oh my god yeah yeah don't do it don't stop stop don't talk about lippeli stop stop stop bro slicker stop i mean the father one the father one was a lot worse than the cancer one to be honest but you don't need to get into it okay well it was gonna cool it's an addiction okay i don't want to talk about like the the the good things i do like a fucking like a fucking it donator of charity savior of the world right but i did see one guy that i that helped out uh they was looking at some of the party today and it was kind of wholesome so you know these are the things that i'm being paid back in in in uh how would you say like um like nice refreshing story yeah a little bit of happiness like that so i get i'm being paid back slowly you get it well see good vibes you know stop donating to the fucking atlanta pd and maybe donate to the fucking st jude's hospital next time that's what he's basically telling you was the you know what i mean i mean he puts a lot of people in the hospital so yeah okay dude oh my god this thing always finds a way to get them makes things really fucking sour what did i make sour man that is fucking good next time he's gonna say that they're break dancing i'm okay i'm not i i i i i i oh yeah that break dancing go george voice deck was crazy oh my god guys jesus you have to finish the joke like christ it was a good joke though but yeah that was destiny's joke yeah good delivery for sure i think you're ready for your debate with ethan i don't mean to lose but you know what i don't get more impressions by losing than by winning to be honest i think i think you sharpened tonight you know the main thing to remember is you're gonna be talking to an audience that aren't as familiar at all with all of these like background positions you have i think that you need to make those clear before you fall into like a trap of ethan's gonna be judging your history why are you helping this guy this guy's like the enemy of all the reacting right now i was gonna say desi do you remember your um debate with big joel hey that fucking guy so um you were kind of locked out by the end of it because he basically conceded that yes no matter what the property is being threatened let them steal it like he he basically gave it so that point is like there's nothing you could do like yeah sure i guess and that's how i feel with with x i i pretty much fully understand your worldview and what you believe is happening and therefore it's like all right you know i wouldn't do it i don't uh think it's the right thing to do but i understand why you do and um you know that's gonna be a big hurdle with ethan because he's gonna he's gonna come out you with all of the worst ways to present your pov and and uh how it affects the world sort of thing yeah but also a bit of something he forgets is that yes some of his viewers like old but a lot of them aren't as old as him right a lot of his arguments come out of touch and people can really feel that and when you compound these arguments a lot lot um you tend to lose the optics battle which is the only reason why how i'm gonna win the i could win the optic battle is that he's just gonna self sabotage in that regard right because otherwise he wins the optics by default just based off of his position right it'd be like trying to say that like racism is good right it's like a terrible position terrible bad optics i mean you have to hope that your opponent would sabotage his position or um his optics for your look better in that point right because like i've seen the clips of him he he hates you right like he's yeah yeah exactly which is good for me sure i mean well it's only good if he acts unhinged if he acts like calm and chill and you act unhinged it's bad for you yeah yeah yeah but it's good for content which i have to make a good hybrid of it which quite frankly i'm going to do i think angiotatable people does pretty good out of um i'm curious to if there was a creator who built their whole career on let's say um analyzing film or whatever and then you knew like inside their head you knew that they thought i can retire now because i've got enough of a community where i can just react to videos and even if the content creators were to complain i'm going to ignore them and i'm not really going to react i'm mostly going to be making food and stuff would you condemn them ethically would you be like whatever it's fine wait oh wait i didn't really understand entirely because that was there was a lot of components then i'm uh so sit out one more time so if a creator built their career on let's say reviewing movies they had like millions of subscribers and then they said to themselves in their head but you knew about this i'm going to retire and the way i'm going to do it is i'm going to stream now all these different movie reviews and all these different videos and stuff i'm barely going to react i'm going to be making food and eating it and mainly just being on my phone and even if the creators are asking to take down my vods of when i put them up with the same tiles and stuff i'm just going to ignore them would you could would you condemn that person um well okay i think that right now we're in a position where i think people need to do better overall for the whole realm to progress in the ways that i think it should and deserves to and will in the future right and i think that when you do things that are bad and damaging and really bad um i think i think i think generally people should um if you can do better you should right and um i i i think perhaps people should you know that there should be some sort of feedback sort of conversation by making not do that because i think that's kind of cooked like if it's like really really low quality what is this it's good to hear that you actually you do value the the creators you're covering his position on all of it that's that's good it doesn't agree doesn't agree yeah i i because i want things to be good that i want people to enjoy more content or people to like get baited because it'll take more time for the for that creator to start losing their followers and people to stop caring and to trickle down somewhere else right um and down the line because if you think about it like you want things to be good i want people to have better products to watch it they don't think i don't want people to lose on stuff you know that sucks wait mao let me ask you this question first of all we're talking about optics with like ethan i want to fucking bomb the nra building fucking client so optics wise not hard for x to win dash number one number two if his argument is i'm willing to fucking 10x the money that these people fucking get i'm willing to pay for my reactions shout them out do everything ask for permission if i don't get permission i won't fucking react to their content how the fuck are you gonna push back against that shit i that's what i'm saying make sure you get that stuff out he's gonna want to just talk about the fact that he doesn't believe he believes you're stealing but as soon as you let him know you're willing to do all of that but no one ever or i don't know if anyone ever has requested it oh no i have and i've worked with them in the past before and i felt really bad and i talked to them about what i want to do about it one of these examples is a chris kazart um i've spoken with them and i think when they started getting a lot of sponsors from like the big get the gate foundation with the what i noticed is that um they actually didn't want the reaction to be able to do on youtube and we just stopped entirely and their motives for that was just because they had interlinked sponsors that provide way more provisions than the one that are altered by mine in my videos reacts we stopped doing that and it was a very good and understanding conversation and ended up being good over everybody so i don't see a problem with that yeah if you get all that out early you should be fine with ethan i don't see what he's going to be able to do at that point because you're talking about compensating the careers which is something that you make clear it matters to you so that's gonna be the main thing yeah okay i'm gonna not nice not when he's probably screaming when i'm with his grandma about arguing and shit like this so i'm gonna have to be careful but uh because when he's probably screaming as well right he's doing the same thing as we are he's probably doing arguments uh screaming sorry you is absolutely not no oh you're asking like how good is ethan arguing no i'm gonna say i'm saying it's probably gonna know about his arguments right now no and i mean i mean he's probably gonna he's probably gonna have his points already he probably he knows all of his points already because it's or his view is right but like you'll probably know about all this i'll have to come up with like some sort of like off-stream strat or something like that like i haven't thought about yet i mean it is ethan klyne after all shouldn't be too difficult yeah i'm like i'm shocked i'm like we're talking about ethan klyne over here not been fucking ship here i was like ethan has been on a tear ethan has been on a tear recently okay be careful so you really think x is gonna fucking lose the ethan i'm just saying ethan has been on a tear recently i think he's gonna get taken completely off guard by the compensation stuff i don't know what he's gonna do with that i mean ethan can just default to the argument of like until that payment system is set up streamer should stop stealing content but the x's said he's already got it uh it's ready to go so if he's then xing the money that he fucking gets from that content and he gives it to them i'm pretty sure that's more than whatever that system is gonna give them i'm very confident in that so what what what i mean by 10x was like if that's the amount of my stream and get it at the other sort of amount i would gladly pay for even more right more than i personally got out of that segment because i at the end of the day i don't care i don't want to make i want to make content if you enjoyed watching it right and and it keeps me into the game it keeps me there it keeps me getting something to watch i will make the money back in in any fraction of the time just because just of the favorable or having a product you enjoyed watching and that's it flat out flat out that that's my vision for it yeah because this is hard to push the stealing angle if he keeps talking about compensating them or making deals with them or trying to set up a system that will work with them if you just said you don't give a shit and you ignore them entirely then even would have a better foothold oh yeah and i've had multiple talks before um with other youtubers um if they if they as it if they really really really want you i have all the logs of the combos i have had about people and offering them to be paid for their work and all of them said no they don't give a fuck what literally they they did they did not want want the money that the video created they just didn't care same way that i don't care maybe we'll join my shit it's the same sort of ecosystem because everybody's like having a good time make a good uh good content their war gets around their video gets around things go viral things are good and everybody's happy the people that are unhappy or people that are not part of the ecosystem that nobody watches their videos nobody reacts to their shit and they're trying to push the argument of stealing on the people's behalf because they're insecure about the current numbers and it's fucking cringe let me ask you this uh would you take down a channel that solely like i think uh let's see if over here is talking about it would you make if somebody was just making content about you he's stealing your shit but he's talking negatively about you and he's making money off of shitting on you would you take down his channel um no because because i think overall misinformation and dog shit brings more views at a rate of like one to eight i think and they're just bolstering my content out there and i'm making more money off of their hate than they're making off the video itself so i don't even fuck what they do and let's see if you don't think it's worth it that that could happen you just hate that people are spreading misinformation so you would take them down right let's see i'm asking you if i would take somebody down for criticizing me no for misinformation but that you benefit from it you said like if nick you would love if you had a way to like never have nick react to your fucking videos or something theoretically yeah that'd be nice yeah yeah you know it's crazy my editor's gonna know people like shitting on me and in my editor's these days i feel like they kind of hate me and you know what you know the thing you said they post misinformation back that's what my editor's do to me my editor's post misinformation about myself on my own video titles and they shit on me with their editing literally my others are my enemy and you know what that just works better so i don't give a fuck that much i have a question do you think there's any argument that maybe the kind of live streaming space or the sort of video whatever content space should maybe fall under like a different classification for copyright yes because i feel like it doesn't a lot of the arguments we're making i'm starting to see slightly more of your position but i feel like working in other like fields copyright has a lot more use than just like views and like just value and a monetary amount but like also genuinely like as pisco was saying earlier like moral ownership or overall ownership so maybe like it could be a different class maybe and that makes it easier to be like okay you can register maybe if you had like different like like labels for your content you'd say okay this is you know free to be completely used in the space and we kind of have that with some but i don't know kind of seems like that's the intuition everybody here is pointing in that direction i agree and that's why i think i think i even put the existence of maybe i think a tag that says oh um this is reactable or not reactable right and that'd be fantastic because then you can know ahead of time and um on top of that i think you're right so people don't want their stuff reacted to that makes that makes a lot sense in the nature of live content is that you're just doing things but people's interests what's going on what are people like like this reason why i don't look up on a day and i'd like today guys if we want to watch this this isn't that people will link certain things of certain interests and sometimes will spark trends from left field and as crazy that sounds okay i i think the early i have uses as you use them as an example like three times in a row of today i'm angiutate i i think that the react content of angiutate stuff was a massive explosion for the beginning of the research of the name that ended up being in the headlines in the news it was crazy how explosive did the react what was in its value and it's quantifiable too yeah but the university the way that was set up the more content you made of him the more clicks you got through the affiliate link that they posted on their channel the more uh fucking people you brought in you could access his war room or whatever the fuck so the people that were pushing his content were actually getting kind of paid for it that's why yeah yeah yeah i mean no but what you say it kind of makes sense but like in this instance they're getting paid for it they they have a benefit yeah yeah i think i'm a lot of people like to do hindsight herald which is like after the fact analysis bullshit and like oh my god no why what's up i like that uh hindsight herald is like a negative term i use for like the really like range after the fact thing or sometimes the people that speak about the things that desi talks about where you don't know right because you don't have two lifelines or you don't you don't you don't have a time machine to go back and and compare the analytics of an impact or not an impact right um and all people like the conclusions about those things on the fly and and actually data is out there when it's not it's around twitter that keep debating it bring me the stats show me and show me show me a graph show me anything at all that you have that this is harmful and people have failed to do so because one is hard to find people that think it's bad that make videos and two people that it's bad and it's in fact negatively it's like there's none like almost zero wait hold on dean some order any gamers didn't he do that what i mean no no you guys were going back he never did no okay they're not even that substance they're all a bunch of bitches what okay they're good i still think it would still be worth if if ever possible to talk to like mood hard and stuff to see what happened i don't know like because i haven't looked at all of his videos and i know doc vibe has a lot of um coverage of this but i'm assuming you'd never speak to him i don't know no i mean i i mean i would but i think that the history has a lot of relevance he brought up as a negative thing or like as a got him that i reacted his video a long time ago when in fact if he was really upset about it then he was hurting him so much he could have took my video down at the time no don't don't do that don't do that x is because you said you've never reacted his dog i mean it kind of proves me right because he would have done it but he didn't so like where was the upset man back then it's almost like maybe he wasn't doing because he was gaining from it and that was good right maybe he just didn't care enough to fucking take down your video back then maybe right but he has nothing to make nine posts about me on twitter and he has life to hating me in the past weeks right that that no no because that video was from years ago you don't know what the fucking people's opinions were back then he might have changed his stance based off of people reacting to his content and ripping his shit off and him seeing his analytics fucking hurt because of it that could be a reason i don't mind that's you guys should you guys should debate it like he has this fucking position i don't know what his position is exactly but you'd be open to talk to him right sure yeah i don't mind if you're talking any of them is that the problem that the reason why they want to talk to the other guy we'll mention is that that guy makes really really weird tangents in the past um to like comparing to like other crimes and shit like that and it's very just odd and i think a part of his audience could be literally weaponized and dangerous and i think that's that's just kind of scary that's i'm sorry tell me pussy but that's all i feel about it weaponized and dangerous that gives the juicers he's afraid that niggas well i think i think generally that that comparing um fucking react content to um rape is fucking weird jesus great don't say the r word add the g before it i'm sensitive wait x x i have a question for you have you heard of the greatest show on kick called kicker keep it's the higher life in less team yes or no did you hear of it um i guess that okay it's a show that's run by me and your good friend over here little steve aka destiny bro this is really a fight bro this guy no listen i'm just asking would you ever be down to come on i just want to know i'm not currently really looking for the date at all like and even dating shows i'm not it's not dating shows we barely get any woman don't ask why it's just listen don't don't fucking laugh at that i'm just saying listen bro i'm i'm i'm in yeah but i'm i'm in if this is another or like you don't need to do the watch type of fucking show it's not a date off the board like i'm not i'm not i'm not i don't care to like no shit you are with the fucking pants a truck and you got listen i'm gonna listen i'll get into that anyways it's not a woman dating show i'm a virgin he ran away what the fuck nice okay listen x my bad let's see don't get mad at me okay legs chat's about that hate you for the rest of your life ready ah dude the fucking hate this guys i don't know what somewhere train rex is watching this and he's like i knew he couldn't i knew it i knew it this guy wouldn't be chill this guy just fucking couldn't i'm sorry he said women are off the board i forgot the whole like thing you know what i mean you know i'm saying nice work you stop stop watching that um hassan and ethan thank covering like the x stuff it's clear hasan does not share x's point of view on this at all except for the whole he just wants to take the content like it's funny as hell the problem is hasana is like always in maximum clap mode yeah so hasan was stuck in a in a weird area where he's trying to appease ethan while not shitting on x and he also does some of the stuff that x does so he's like in a really really weird spot like he didn't even mention the benefit to creators or an intention to or talking to them he was just like yeah we shouldn't we shouldn't be stealing yeah we should transform it yeah why would hasan try to suck up to ethan when hasan's bigger than ethan because he doesn't want to fight with him he shares a show with him yeah they probably got contracts to extend way beyond just no not even you don't want to be fighting with your popular co-host why would you ever do that well he would if it like meant if it was something super important right he would probably have to no you think it's our never would no he would never would no like what if like ethan said capitalism is like the greatest thing ever hasn't there actually wait am i crazy guys hasn't there been a show where ethan is like yeah i'm a capitalist not a full on socialist and a song kind of like baby puts around am i crazy or do we watch that you might be right yeah i don't know i feel like we actually watch it but i could be wrong i don't remember wait didn't ethan just call out hasan or something like yeah no well you apologize for what you guys know about that so ethan is cool with going at hasan but hasan can't do the same to him i think that athan just generally tries to minimize the amount of fighting and drama that is in ethan will like throw shit out quickly and impulsively like uh but he's always gonna have a thing in his head of trying to avoid conflict with his co-host as well like anybody does well too much conflict so so ethan is the alpha in the relationship and hasan just tries to yeah he's not confrontational okay but he did say he's like sorry on instagram or something he was he was too it was too much when he was getting like wide celebration on uh on the internet for his how aggressive he was now everyone's okay but hey if he brings that energy to the actual uh when is this happening by the way the uh xqc hasan thing does anyone know i have no idea i don't have anybody knows all righty well i'm gonna head out lads it was fun yeah love you buddy be careful see you