 Welcome to what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean, CodePink's weekly YouTube program of hot news out of the region. In partnership with Friends of Latin America, Massachusetts Peace Action, and Task Force on the Americas, we broadcast every Wednesday at 4.30 p.m. Pacific, 7.30 p.m. Eastern on CodePink YouTube Live. On Sunday, February 6, Costa Ricans took to the polls to elect a new president. According to the latest results reported from Costa Rica's Supreme Electoral Tribunal, TSE, there will be a second and final round on April 3 between former President Jose Maria Figueres of the National Liberation Party and Rodrigo Chavez of the Party for Social Democratic Progress. Figueres received 27.29% of the vote and Chavez 16.66% with approximately 80% of the results reported. To win the first round outright, a candidate had to secure more than 40% of the votes. The two leading contenders will face each other in a runoff on April 3 with a total of 25 candidates who were competing against a panel of 25 candidates who were competing in the first round. Additionally, all 57 seats of the National Legislative Assembly are also up for grabs. A divided legislature is likely, with local media forecasting Figueres' National Liberation Party taking most seats, but well short of a majority. A disappointing election result was the record level of absenteeism. According to the TSE, 40% of eligible voters stayed away from the first round of voting. So joining us today to discuss Sunday's election results is Matt Kierkegaard of Progressive International. We're so lucky to get him this morning. He's been traveling all over Latin America, observing elections all over the hemisphere this past year. Matt was on the Progressive International delegation in Costa Rica. You served as an international observer. So welcome, Matt. So wonderful to have you with us this morning. Matt's joining us from Bogota this morning. It's a pleasure to be here. So I feel so lucky to have you here with all of your experience, and you and I last saw each other in Colombia, spring of last year. So here you are back home. Let's talk about what happened Sunday in Costa Rica. I'm embarrassed to say, and I will share this with our audience. I'm going to be learning a lot about Costa Rica today along with our audience. We don't talk enough about Costa Rica, and I think in part, it's we in the northern hemisphere so identify it as so strongly allied with the United States. We often don't talk much about it. I think we may be probably right or wrong. Take Costa Rica for granted. So we're lucky to have you with us today, Matt. So why don't we start with what actually happened on Sunday and then maybe we can back into the context that led up to a country of just over five million people having 25 candidates for president, which is you wonder how how united a country can be politically when there's that many. Yeah, that's right. It was it was a swagger on the ground in San Jose during the during the weekends and of course for the elections themselves as an elections observer, as you mentioned, it was a you know, quite quite a spirited election in in the capital itself, as you mentioned in the rural areas, especially in the rural provinces outside of the Central Valley, where the majority of the population lives, really record levels of obscenitism in some provinces, even over 50 percent, which is quite unique for for the Costa Rican proud democracy that they that they have. What actually happens, as you said, was two candidates are moving on to the to the runoff. Jose Maria Figuez, a former president and son of, you know, really the sort of founder of of modern Costa Rica, who took power in the forties through a military coup and then proceeded to to abolish the military as Costa Rica is known for. We really been one of the only countries in the world to not to not have a military and I can get more into that if we if we want. But that's a long ancient history. And Rodrigo Chavez, who was really a surprise candidate in this emerging in this runoff, pulled, you know, about about five percent, five or six percent before. And as you mentioned, ended up the day at night with with nearly 17 percent. So really, I think we're a lot of the we're a lot of the undecided vote went and, you know, I think it's important to mention really the total collapse of the pack. The pack is the part of the action to you and it was the rule. It is the ruling ruling party for the last eight years. The the presidents have been from from the pack and they didn't even get one percent in the election. This time they will be eliminated from from the Congress, from the National Assembly. So really a complete repudiation of of of the ruling of the ruling order. In the Congress, as you mentioned, there won't be a majority for for the party of the National but there will be probably a decent coalition where they can be cobbled together to pass pass laws. It's sort of an array. The left did much better in in the assembly than in the in the presidential race. And I think that that's the front of the broad front party. And they they were quite happy with with their results, winning about eight percent of the of the assembly, six representatives, all young socialist leaders under 32 years old. So I think they're quite happy with the new young group of legislators coming in. And, you know, that's sort of where things stand. I maybe I can get into to sort of each of the candidates one by one, if that would be if that would be helpful. Let's talk about. Well, first of all, that you mentioned legislatures, young legislatures, socialist legislatures under 32. I got that to me is really fabulous. A lot of people say, well, they have no experience. I know it's probably better that they have little influence. I mean, I think that I mean, little that's not the word I want. They'll have a tremendous influence in the legislature, but don't come with the. The history, yeah, and we're seeing this throughout the Americas, with the exception of the United States. And I would love us to somehow figure out how to get young people into Congress in the US, because we are seeing this throughout the Americas in many countries, their governments and even their presidential leadership being, you know, under 60, under 50, in many cases, under 40 in some. And I think that's really very, very exciting to see this happening in the Americas. But let's talk about. Let's talk about the the lead presidential candidates going into the runoff April 3rd, who they are and what their vision is for Costa Rica, for domestic policy. And if possible, foreign policy as well. Sure. Yeah. So as I mentioned, you know, Jose Maria Figuez has already been already been president in the nineties and really comes from a political dynasty in Costa Rica, the Figuez family. His sister, Cristiana Figuez, is you might remember leading the UNF triple C, the climate change the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change for, you know, more than a decade, really during the early 2000 through all of the sort of the moments when that was most most critical, most in most of the news and really was seen as a vehicle for change. He is a he is a centrist. He is a he's a technocrat. His vision for national development, I think we could describe as green capitalism is basically his model and the opening of Costa Rica to to World Trade. So what I mean by that is he's not. I think that he is first and foremost a liberal in that sense. You know, he's not afraid to work with partners in in Asia, but he also is very much looking to open the Costa Rican market to to the to international capital and to the extent that he even proposes and defended on the debate stage, making English a man that a co-official language with Spanish. From his perspective to to give Costa Ricans more opportunity, but really, I think it's clear that this is a a chance to make Costa Rica a bilingual labor force that is able to work for Amazon or for any other major, you know, international corporations that would love to have that it would love to open call centers and consultancy firms there. You know, let me just interrupt because you say open to international capital. And so I'm thinking, you know, even at the Salak Summit in Mexico City in September of last year, even last low of of Ecuador mentioned, you know, wanting to trade internationally and open up their markets and he was very clear Russia, China, U.S., not exclusively U.S. But I'm hearing you say international capital and then making English an equivalent language to Spanish. So they're looking to the north in they're looking they're looking to the north. But I think they also, you know, this is a he's a former world economic forum guy. I think they will be looking strongly to strongly to strongly to to China, frankly. And to the rest of Asia as well. Costa Rica was one of the first countries, I believe, to to recognize China, even with its sort of deeply anti-communist history. You know, the sort of the history of just very briefly, but a bit of the history of Costa Rica, you know, in the after Figuez's father took power by military force in the forties. You know, this was an this was an anti-communist coup. And basically the the the the negotiation with the United States was, you know, we'll be your anti-communists in Central America. But you have to let us develop on a social democratic path. So they nationalized the bank, they invested heavily in in in in education and in medicine. And, you know, this has sort of led to Costa Rica to be able to plow a lot of the money that would have been used probably in in in Cold War conflicts into, you know, social development. And this is sort of it brings Costa Rica to where it was today. Of course, the bargain was, you know, we'll always be your anti-communist. The Communist Party was banned until the until the mid 70s, and there's never been, you know, really a a protagonist's left force since since the since before the forties. And that's sort of where things where things remain today. And that's the vision that he gets will will continue on. It's important to mention that, you know, he was also he gets was was also the he began to sort of undo this social democratic compromise at the beginning of the 90s. He was the first one to privatize many of these formerly public institutions. I think that's a major threats that his presidency represents, to be to be honest, moving forward. Yeah, you know, this continued privatization, especially in favor of you know, whatever it'll be. It'll be probably sold as dynamic green development that we can only do by the sector. And so these are things to watch out for. And if you get a probable to get his presidency, I think he would be favored. He's heavily favored to win. And Rodrigo Chavez, as I mentioned, the surprise candidate, his his competitor now, sold himself basically entirely as a technocrat to say, I went to Harvard, I speak five languages. I worked at the World Bank. I know how to go Costa Rica on the next path. What are my policies? What's my ideology? You know, it's doing the right thing always. You know, it's he served as minister. He served as minister in this current government and, you know, was was was forced out relatively quickly. He doesn't want to go as far as, you know, making English a man, a co-official language, but he wants to make English maritalian schools. And, you know, I think his his probable electoral strategy will be one of anti-corruption, you know, because of the sort of dynastic elements of the Figuez family that comes out of a lot of baggage. And, you know, Figuez is, I think, widely. He's he's associated widely in Costa Rica society with with elements of corruption, especially in the 90s and in 2000s, you know, right or wrong. And, you know, I think that it's given the forces that sort of remain that didn't make it into into the runoff. I believe Rolero Chavez's strategy will likely be a national anti-corruption front to say, you know, I'm the right guy for the job and Figuez is corrupt and we from across the spectrum from left to right to me in the center are prepared to, you know, weed out corruption at the national level. We'll see how well it does. I think it's, you know, Figuez isn't a shoe in, but he is probably the the the candidate favored to win at this point. You know, it's fascinating listening to you because there's several things I'm thinking simultaneously here. One, the importance of these young people in the legislature to make sure whoever becomes president develops a nation favorable to a new generation of Costa Ricans. And it's it sounds like that pressure is going to really have to come from the legislature and from the and from the citizens themselves in order to get what they want. It doesn't sound like either candidate is really focused on a true national program for its citizens. And also, how do you how do you explain these two men coming out of, you know, a field of 25 candidates? The population of Costa Rica is just over five million people. So you have five million people who have split and then those aren't even not everybody is actually aged about. But of those five million people who have, you know, political sympathy across 25 candidates. No. Is this an extraordinarily fraction of a factionalized, fractionalized population? Or is there or is this a result of not any one candidate having a real strong, clear vision for the country? Yeah, I think it's important to take a sort of take a step back in the early 2000s. The Costa Rica signed and then ratified Tafta, which is the Central American Free Day Agreement. And this was really it was fought hard. It was another sort of privatizing moments for these these public institutions that had served Costa Rica well through throughout the second half of the 20th century. And there was a major reaction against this by the people and also by organized elements of civil society. And it led to in 2012 and 2014, the first time ever that the sort of two party system was broken, the PAC and and and and this was, you know, really seen as a as a moment for possibly the left, possibly the center left to an election that was one on the repudiation of free trade agreements and ended up, you know, being a mandate for for two, you know, for two terms leading us up to this present moment. It didn't get anything done. And so, you know, it was in a similar sort of way, you know, maybe to a to a U.S. audience that people felt after the Obama presidency to say, you know, we had so much hope and and and for change in this moment and nothing happened. And so I think, you know, what we're seeing now is really people looking for any alternative. And so with no candidate even breaking a quarter of of the vote, this is really a reflection of this. You know, people are looking for any any anyone who they feel, you know, represents something new, something that, you know, breaks with the the the the status quo. And what you end up getting with such with such rupture is actually the status quo has come back, has has reasserted itself even, even more strongly now. So, you know, maybe it's important to just mention very quickly, you know, some of the candidates that didn't make it, but, you know, represent important forces in the country. First and foremost, Fabrizio Alvarado, who is a, you know, right wing, you know, Pentecostal fundamentalist who did make it into the runoff last time and was expected probably to make it into the runoff this time, he did not. But, you know, he represents probably a strong 15 percent block of, you know, of an evangelical really right wing movement that has consolidated, has consolidated itself in the country. And there are two others, I think, that are worth mentioning. One being, you know, Eliezer Feinzeig, who, you know, represents basically the the libertarian urban young you know, where we are woke, but we love capitalism, sort of formation, and he won about 10 percent. And the real left wing, Fabrizio, who also won 10 percent. So while there were 25 candidates, you know, really, these are the candidates that actually were able to break above one or two percent and actually, you know, appeared on the debate stage and appeared in the national discourse. So these are sort of the buffet of options that were being discussed regularly in Costa Rica society. And, you know, I think a lot of those undecided, a lot of those people who used to vote for the PAC, it looks like went for a proletary go chavis. And one thing that we haven't, I didn't, I forgot to mention when I when I discussed them before was, you know, much of the discussion, especially, you know, in the debates themselves and being attacked by the other candidates were, you know, his two sustained sexual harassment complaints at the World Bank. He's no longer able to go to the World Bank. Farmer and, you know, as these complaints were, as I said, sustained and, you know, the other candidates just hammered him on this. Here's that it appears that the voters care. Yeah, they didn't they didn't care, which is a surprise for me, especially in Costa Rica. But, you know, this this this conversation of gender equity, of feminism, especially emerging emerging from from younger voices from a new generation demanding something better has taken center stage if it took, you know, a hit at this in this election. You know, this is something that comes up as we're watching so many nations develop emerging economies in the in the hemisphere. We progressive to leftist. There's a real difference. Well, and and understandably so, given, you know, where your politics originate, what your culture is, where what your nation of origin is. But talking about the sexual harassment suits and whether they matter to people or not, one, some people just look at that and say, you know, it's tabloid news and let's move on. Other people take it quite seriously. But there is this real. And I think probably an episode I'd love to have you come back and just talk as a separate subject, what we would define on the left as social Marxism versus economic Marxism. And some of us, you know, in the global north and wealthy countries have evolved and or have the luxury to talk about social equity, social social Marxism, whereas emerging nations are more concerned about economic equality, economic growth, economic Marxism. And there's a big divide on the left as to what, you know, how that shakes out. And it really has to do with so much of your cultural and national origin and where you are as far as, you know, economic and political evolution. I would say that for many feminists in Central America and South America, again, depending on the country that, you know, abortion rights are huge for the women in the global north. But in in nation south of us, feminism is described as how do I get electricity and running water in the house? How do I get my kids, you know, public education? How do I get my family health care? Those things first and also tend to be of more more conservative socially as well, particularly in rural areas. And so it's interesting for just to hear, you know, that some people worried about the the World Bank issue and some. It's just, you know, let's move on or it just let's move on. It's tabloid news or right now it really doesn't matter. We need other things for our people and our society before we talk about that. I mean, you mentioned you mentioned the the the cultural setting. And I think this is really critical in Costa Rica. I mean, it is a deeply, a deeply conservative and Catholic and Christian nation to the extent that it's the only I believe only nation in the in the Americas. I believe that fact check me, but I believe it's the only nation in the Americas that still has a state religion and that state religion is so it is not a it is not a secular state. It is a Catholic state and, you know, to the to the extent that, you know, in there on their logo for their public health system, you know, Mary appears with with Jesus or something very. And, you know, this is this is this is the state of things. I think, you know, where you're seeing a lot of support for the front, the Amplio for the left is emerging from from the universities, from young people, not exclusively, but to a large extent, this is where it's being where it's being driven from. And I think the big question for the front, the Amplio will be how much they can they can break out of this. This formation, which, you know, is maybe 10 percent, as we've seen of the of the population that really is is is going to going to the ballot box on these terms and can break into, you know, a more national project that they that the population feels is supporting, you know, all aspects of society and really driving forward to a more egalitarian substantive democracy. I think this was their of this is still in their in, you know, this is in their program, but making that a reality is that is another is another piece of work altogether. And I think a lot of work remains to connect to the bases in Costa Rica to connect to the working class. And I think that will be the task of the front, the Amplio for for this for this coming four years and well beyond that. It's let's talk a little bit about Costa Rica's relationship with its neighbors and how these election results on April 3rd could or could not affect any substantive change in its in its regional relationships and and then also across across the hemisphere. I mean, I think you and I would both agree we are in a particular moment in the Americas, we we are seeing, you know, a multilateral, multi polar paradigm unfolding before our very eyes and how wide it spreads and how rapidly it spreads. You know, we don't know, but we are certainly watching this happen with all the election results that occurred last year. So many of them have embraced global trade, China, even Argentina now has announced that it's going to join the Belt and Road Initiative, particularly for energy projects. So how does Costa Rica play into this? How do you see its role? I well, I think that, you know, one of the interesting things about Costa Rica is that folks there are not under any illusions as to sort of their place in the global economy, as you mentioned, it's five million people. It's one of the smallest countries in the hemisphere. And they're they're very attentive to international trends because, you know, frankly, they sort of have to ride those waves wherever they wherever they go. And, you know, so I think if we were to see being hopeful here, I think if we were to see, you know, a real project for for regional integration emerged in a much more serious way at the end of this year, possibly with the election of Lula and Petro and, you know, in coordination with, you know, Orich and Fernandez in Argentina and Amlo in Mexico, I don't think it would be at all inconceivable to for Costa Rica to to join those efforts. I think, you know, if that's where they see the tides moving, I think they will they will follow that. On the other hand, if that doesn't materialize, I think they won't have any any qualms about, you know, cozying further up to the United States, given their their long-standing relationships, you know, in North America and their, frankly, dependence on Northern tourism to really drive the country's economy, which I think will only be probably be deepened even further as this move towards green capitalism intensifies and, you know, more hotels, more luxury hotels are built and inequality deepens. So, you know, I this is I think they're pragmatists. I don't think that they they are either of these two candidates have, you know, deep ideological convictions in the in this space. But I don't think that we'll see any changes with, you know, their approach to, you know, for example, Nicaragua on their northern border for Venezuela or, you know, any of the any of sort of the they're not going to join the revolutionary movement. No, no, no, I don't think we'll see any changes. And if we do, it will be it will be because there there's sort of no way to no way to avoid it. This is. Do you see them more maybe aligned with Mexico and Argentina's political and well, you can't compare economically because those other two countries are so huge. But Mexico and Argentina kind of hold a specific space in the progressive countries. And in fact, I know people work in both governments and they're very clear we're the only two progressive nations in the Americas. You know, so they they have carved out that specific definition of, you know, their economies, their politics and their role in the hemisphere. You see Costa Rica more in line with that or. No, no, they're not leftists for sure. No, I don't think that I know I don't and I don't think that we're going to see any real progressive change, except for perhaps, you know, some leadership on their continued leadership sort of on on climate and environmental issues. But even that has, you know, is not. Is especially if you get us where to win, you know, both of these both of the leading candidates do not support the Eskazoo Treaty. The Eskazoo Treaty was in, you know, Eskazoo is in Costa Rica itself. But it's a it's a really a landmark regional treaty to protect environmental defenders and to secure information regarding large, large projects that would impact the environment. And like, like. What was like, you know, mega projects? Like hydroelectric dam and mining and things like that. Things like this, but also specifically surrounding, you know, guaranteeing rights for environmental defenders. So the communities that defend those lands that are so often assassinated or or or harassed in other ways across the region. You know, speaking here from Columbia, you know, this is. Yeah, yeah. You see some of the worst in the world there. Actually, absolutely. And but of course, you know, the famous case of that, because it is and, you know, notice, you know, we see this across the we see this across the the hemisphere across the world, really. And this is an attempt to change that. And both of these both of these candidates, you know, I don't think we'll ratify that agreement. These principally affecting indigenous people in Costa Rica. Or they they they are. Well, yes, I mean, most strongly, yes. But I think they are also affecting, you know, compassing on rural as a peasant and rural rural communities as well. The indigenous population of Costa Rica believes about is about 3 percent. So so less than in other parts of the of the region. But yes, these are the principally the lands that are under attack and, you know, sort of in line for for new development and and violence. So, you know, no, I don't I don't think we'll see any any great changes by both of these both of these candidates. Don't support any changes to to to, you know, abortion legislation. For example, they right now Costa Rica has only in the life in the case of the life of the mother is abortion permitted. And, you know, both of these candidates have said, you know, we won't know know what's the word and know back, you know, no moving backwards, but no moving forward. Things that are no, I don't see any to any progressive change. Unfortunately, well, so the next round is the final round. The runoff is April 3rd. Are you going to be back in Costa Rica for for that? I don't think I will be back, unfortunately, just due to scarce resources. But but, yes, it will be it will be April 3rd. And, you know, we are, I think, completely confident in the integrity of the electoral process. In my in my observation there, you know, there was really nothing to be too alarmed by, except for the entry of private money into politics, as we both were always seeing and seeing more and more of. But really, you know, I think this is it should be a probably a clean process, a transparent process, and one where we will likely see Figuetes come out on top again. Wow. Well, it's going to be an interesting. It's going to be an interesting to see how it all unfolds and how and how Costa Rica moves forward in this new this new paradigm that we're watching. Because it could be very exciting for all of us, you know, even more conservative trees like Costa Rica, even Ecuador, even mentioned earlier, is embraced. Now, try lateral, you know, lateral trade with the US. And so it could be could be very good for all of us, including those of us like me from the United States could eventually force our own our own, you know, changes as well. So so, Matt, is there anything that we should we should talk about before I let you go? Anything that I over, you know, blaringly omitted or anything that you would like to share with our audience? No, I think that's I think we really hit it all. You know, I mean, one thing I forgot to mention just, you know, I was doing a little bit of fact checking myself as we were in interviews that, you know, Costa Rica was one of the one of the first countries in South America or in Central America to join the Belt and Road. So, you know, there are continuing development initiatives also from from China happening there. And I think, as I said, I think you'll really see this sort of pragmatic approach moving forward. I don't think that we're going to see too many changes or, you know, a hard shift to the United States, even either of these candidates are, you know, progressive by really any stretch of the imagination. But but Costa Rica also has a lot of parallels to the US, especially in its in its composition to its composition of left forces. And I think we'll probably be learning together how to move forward in a more in a more powerful way and in the way that we can build for we can build power. So, you know, I think lots of lots of contact with with with the comrades in in front of them will be will be important for for folks in the US and especially in a nation that's so affected by by US tourism, by US contact, more important all the time. So just wanted to say thank you very much and and and that's all for me. OK, thank you so much. I'm so glad you had time to talk with us today, especially having just returned from the elections on Sunday in Costa Rica. So I want to just remind our audience, you've been watching what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean Code Pink's weekly YouTube program of hot news out of the region. We broadcast every Wednesday, 7 30 p.m. Eastern and also be sure to catch Code Pink Radio, which broadcasts every Thursday morning, 11 a.m. Eastern on WBAI out in New York City, simulcasting at a WPFW Washington, D.C. So thanks again, Matt, really wonderful to have this conversation and to see you at least by zoom. And we should talk about Columbia, the upcoming Columbia elections next and what we can all do to to to support, you know, what's going on there. Absolutely. Thanks, Terry. And yeah, folks want to learn more about progressive international. It's a progressive dot international and will be keeping tabs on Columbia both through their both through their congressional elections in next month, as well as their really highly contested presidential elections in May and June. OK, more to come, folks. Thank you so much.