 Welcome back and it's time for our first hot topic and indeed the very hot topic we're having today on the breakfast. Well, the Nigeria Data Protection Bureau has just closed the signing into law. The data protection bill by President Bola Tenubo and this bill is projected to produce 500,000 jobs and we have been joined by Mr. Oluwasegoa Lebede, MD, PageMe Network and Communication. Hello Mr. Femi, Oluwasegoa Lebede. Mr. Lebede, good morning to you. Good morning. Okay, he's not alone. Mr. Joe Femi, Dagwon Road, Chief Strategist Westphalia Resources is also joining us for this conversation. Good morning to you. All right, good morning. All right, so the NDPD, the NDPB pursuant to this bill that has been signed, you know, has translated into a full-fledged commission. From being the National Data Protection Bureau it has now become a full-fledged commission. Mind data to, among other things, regulate the deployment of technological and organizational measures to embrace personal data protection. Now there's a lot to chew, especially for people who are not that tech survey. So let's start by giving an explanation about what data protection law entails. Let me start with you Mr. Oluwasegoa Lebede. Yeah, I think it has been a long time coming. The effort started with the, with NDPD, the Nigeria Information Technology Developer Agency, but what was observed that even though they are married to the, to the act then being managed by NDPD, it also still adds some, some, some sort of itchies. So if there was need that for the data of individuals to be protected, there has to be a commission, so this has to do with that responsibility, ensuring that while you are giving your information to all of these companies that may, you may need their services, you are protected, your data is not given to unauthorized persons, and in case there is any kind of breach in their system, you can actually hold them responsible. So what it means is that for Nigerians and having that information and that's understanding that data is huge and people leverage your needs to do all sorts of things and all of those. And so it is very important that the rights of individuals are protected. And that is why this signing of the Bill into law is very, very good development for the country in terms of what it also brings to the table for business individuals and people who have confidence to also come into the country to invest in that area. Mr. Adaguru, you're welcome. You agree with him? It's been a long time coming. Yes, no doubt about that. I agree with him on that. And moreover, people has been misusing individuals' data. The data you submit. I mean, just a good example is this. These loan sharks, they give loans to people and they download all the information on your phone, all the contacts, and if you default one way or the other, you see the people calling everybody on your phone and telling them you are owing, you are these, you are that, and even blackmailing you. So that we stop, you know, because now there is a law to back all these things up. That's just a good example of what's going on. And then another one is this cross-border data transfer. You'll recall that lately, META was fine in Europe with about 1.7 billion. And these are the kind of things that people sell your data. That's by the fact that you sign privacy, whatever, on their platforms. They sell your data and you can protect yourself. So the government has come in to say, look, we are going to protect you more than ever before. Yes, there was a bureau before, I mean, that was similar act was signed by Bawari in 2022. But then this is more elaborate and it gives you the confidence that now it's going to work a little more better and the people will be there to protect you. You know, in Nigeria, definitely you have so many of these laws, so many of these agencies. I've always been saying it is the effectiveness, the practicability, who manages it, who executes this law. So who manages it now? How does the protection come into play? How does the consumer get protected? I remember during the elections, we saw some videos and listened to some audios, which suggested that people's phones were hacked, messages shared. How does the consumer get protected this time? And how does he seek redress when he gets violated? You know, the problem is now the government is going to train a lot of people because most people don't even have this knowledge of data protection, how to work with it. So that is why they are coming up with the idea of training the people to manage it, training the people to work with it, because it is not an easy thing to trace any hacker or anyone disrupting your phone, it's not really an easy task at all. So professionals are going to be trained data processors, data managers and all that to really, really manage this. The consumers in the past, they have been cheated so many times and in so many ways. But look at it, it depends on the states as well. The states and the local government are keep saying they must participate fully. In Lagos, for instance, you have this consumer protection agency, you know, and the guy has been working. And you hear his name, he goes to a lot of places to, you know, he's on the spot working. And these are the people we need. It is good to sign anything of these bills into law, but we have to be proactive to make it work. Even if we have five million people trained to work on it, they have to do their job well. And this is one thing that I think we have to encourage our leaders to really make sure that if you fail, there must be fines, there must be consequences. You don't just go to the bank and save your data. Look at your NIN is all over the place, your BBN is all over the place. They keep asking for these things. You don't even know how far this thing has gone, where it has been stored. So now, if we train qualified people and establishments, banks, and insurance, wherever that is needed, then we have to have officers responsible for this data protection. So if there's anything traced to them, they will be responsible. And there will be consequences. It's not just to say, OK, we are looking into it. You don't just look into it anymore. You are working on it and you are making it compulsory for people to really discharge their duty. That is very, very crucial. We have it now. There will be a commission. Quality people should be in that commission. I keep saying it. This should be a bipartisan issue. Quality people working on it. Who knows what it is? It is not just about we find you because you don't like your face or because you don't belong to a pattern. No, it's because you've done something wrong. And the people in Nigeria and the consumers will have confidence in you. And that is what these agencies or this commission has to establish. It's not just sitting down in a pudja and sitting and saying, look, we are commissioned. It has to be established in all local governments, in all states, so that it will be more active. And people will now know, yes, we have somebody watching us. So unless we do that proactively and work on it actively and bring quality people, trained quality people to manage it, it should just be like one of those things. But I know what I'm seeing, what I'm feeling. I believe Bola Amitinova, as the president, is going to make most of this work well. And at the end of the day, like I said the last time, we just see that in the next few months, this is not even up to 30 days in office. And this guy is just doing wonderful things. And we are seeing it. We are loving it. And I believe it has to, the momentum has to continue so that we see the effect. Now we have seen the acts and student loan bill, electricity act and judicial law, officers and all that. Then the effectiveness is what the people are waiting just now. It's good we have that, but we have to be very effective. Okay. I would have loved to take you on a lot of things that you have said. But we are not concentrating on those things today. We're talking about some other things. Now, my question, let me go to Mr. Elegberde. My question is, for instance, Mr. Dagonro just alluded to or used the example of loan sharks and said that they use your data. They do one or two things. Now, if you want to get a loan from a loan shark or you want to download an app, they will ask you whether they can have access to your private information, your phone numbers and everything. And if you say yes, you go to the next page. If you say no, you are likely not to get it, maybe the app or anything. So as they're talking about the protection, data protection law, will also these people who require this information for you to get their services be engaged as well. Because if that is not done and one of the requirements to get, let's say, an app is to allow them access to this, your private information is not met. Or if you cannot meet it and you cannot get those things. It means that we will be at the loss. You have something you need to download, but they cannot get that information that will give you the right to download that thing. So we will be at the loss. Will these people be engaged? Will loan sharks, for instance, be engaged? Will app developers be engaged and all that? What is the level of interaction that is going to go on? Yeah, it seems to be a UU thing. All commerce is a fear in the digital economy in Nigeria. And so many of these loan sharks and app developers have done a whole lot of things with that outs putting into constitutions the protection of the data they are getting from individuals. So bringing this into perspective now and I mean making it into law means that everybody has to have that consciousness that whatever information you are getting from people, you have to also have a department that will ensure that the data is being protected and that is the consciousness that will also build confidence in the industry ensuring that everyone plays by the books. So it does not matter if I am accepting that yes, you can have access to my information because I opt to get your services online. What matters more now is that as I divulge or release my data to you I am also sure that the government has a law in place that will protect me. So if I eventually realize that my data has been transferred into an authorized company or user, then I can take you up. And that is where the implementation, execution and monitoring of the law is very important as Mr. Dagora said. It is very important we have the laws in place in Nigeria but implementation has always been the issue. Who are going to be the gatekeepers in this case ensuring that all that is in place in the law not just in just white and black, they are also giving life and everybody in the industry ensures that they play by the rules. Alright, Dr. Tungi Vincent or Latungi is the pioneer commissioner for this Nigeria data protection bureau which has now transmitted into a full-fledged commission. I asked a question earlier. I am not satisfied that I have gotten a clear understanding. Let me touch on it as Nyamgo asked his question. How does the consumer get his justice if he finds that he has been violated and also paint for us. Paint for us how bad the picture was before this bill was signed into law. How bad was it for the consumers in the country? Let me just add to what my friend there has said. Even if you have to fill all the necessary information or details if you have to give each company or individuals operating e-commerce or online business or digital businesses they have to fundamentally as well disclose their privacy policy on their platform. But in most cases they know that most people will not retrieve these privacy documents or policies because they could be about one or two pages. But the point is it has to be declared and this is where the monitors, this is where the enforcers have to go into that look. If for instance the bank says our policy on privacy is this and that and that and it is not good enough before that then they will have been controlled, they will have been checked, that look this your privacy law or the privacy policy is not adequate because most people don't even declare it, they don't point out to it that you can read through these data policies. Every business is online must declare that, must show that we have a policy whereby they may tell you that okay we have three companies. Whatever information you give us as company A we will submit it or we can give it to the third party. So when it is clearly stated this is where it is very a little bit difficult to really pin them down, they will have written in that privacy policy that look your information can be given to third parties. So you can now tick that no I don't want my information to be given to a third party but the consumers have to always take time to read through to even understand it before signing. So if it is written there and you don't just mark it or tick it as okay I agree with you or I don't agree because you can check all those things and disagree with some of those things. Once you don't mark it off as agreed or not agree, they are free and that is the loophole, this privacy thing. So it has to be the privacy policy of each company has to be fundamentally made by the commission. They have to have these fundamentals and these are the basic you must have it on your platform whether you like it or not. And once you have it, it is not the duty of the consumer to say I agree with this, I don't agree with that because lately you see from before you read newspaper they are telling you that we gather information to these to that and all that. So but if you don't agree say I don't agree but if you agree yes they will sell your information because that is the essence especially most of these platforms that offer free things. They want to sell your information and that is why they are making it free because they have to make their money. But when you talk about the fact that they have to put their privacy policy there the question I asked was that in these things or these people that want this information from you is either you agree or you don't and if you don't agree you don't get the service and you need it. So where will the government intervene now that they are bringing this law so that you can still get the services but not agree entirely with all that they have said. Is that possible? If you are going to sell your product in a country Nigeria you have to agree with this and you have to display this for our consumers to see that. That is why the European Union they are very hard on all these people. You don't just come because you are Google and you are based in Euro and you collect data of everyone and you just send it to the American office the headquarters and say look we are an American company no it doesn't work that way. You have to follow the rules of the nation that is European this is what our citizens we are protecting them and you must allow them to do this so Nigeria can do that as well. It's so funny that sometimes you want to buy or you want to renew or you want to do something on Facebook and it's charging you in dollar. You don't go to any other country and charge them a dollar. You are working in Nigeria you pay in Naira. So these are the things we have to put in place as well. Once you are dealing with us in Nigeria we pay the currency of the country. So you don't just come around and tell us what to do. We have our rules and you have to abide by our rules. If you don't abide by our rules we find you or we tell you to go. These are simple facts. You have to and that is why the commission have to have this fundamental basic information that must be there by everyone and anyone doing business in Nigeria. Unfortunately it's not just this big company coming from Europe and America and all that that do this. I'm not sure. What I'm trying to say is that even if you have you've traveled and you lodge in a good hotel in Nigeria now a lot of them charge you in dollars not Naira. So how do you blame the people who come from the America itself that has the dollar. So it is our control that has given it to them. But now. That's what I'm telling you. In the past people who charged you in dollars the government of Nigeria said you are in Nigeria paying in Naira. So they can say how Naira value is $50 but you have the right to pay in Nigeria, Naira and the currency of Nigeria. That's not that bad. I can charge you in Pakistan but you still have to pay in Naira. Okay. Now let me go to another question. I know that Maureen wants to ask another one but this data protection I'd like to know where the balance will be between protecting an individual's data and then the freedom of information. Is there a dividing line or is there a place of balance that this will have? Because when you're protecting all the information and then we also have a law that gives someone or people freedom to whatever information that they will need about whether an individual or about a corporate organization where is the balance line? Okay. You want me to go on that? You see the point is this. Freedom of information does not guarantee you to write nonsense about me for instance. And if you are not clear, if you want my age for instance you ask me. You can send a memo to me or a message to me and say, oh Mr. Joufemi-Dakuro, I want this information from you. If I'm a public officer I'm entitled to give you this information but as a private person I may say, no I declined. You don't need my information. You don't need to get it. You know, being a public officer and being an individual is quite different. Your freedom of information ends where I have my own rights as well. I have the right to protect myself, to protect my data. So I may decide not to give you some information if they are too sensitive or whatever way I looked at it but as government officials, yes, maybe you have to be asked. You don't just go around and say look, I got it somewhere. If you get the information somewhere and it's not accurate then you'll be in trouble. But if you need an information from anyone and you ask and he releases that information to you then you are free. But don't just go and copy any information about an individual and say look, freedom of information, I got it somewhere. No. I mean, you are still protected even under that freedom of information. You are protected. Your fundamental human rights guarantees you all these things and it is just if people don't know and people are afraid even to take some of these people some of these organizations, I think that's the issue. Yeah, taking these organizations up. Mr. Alec Bader, come in here. I still don't feel like I've gotten my way. Some of us are really not that much into tech. Mr. Alec Bader, let me speak with Mr. Alec Bader at this point. Some of us are not that much into tech and so we need some of these information pieces a little bit for us. Talk to us. How do we get redress? This is the third time I'm asking it. If I feel, for instance, that my rights, my data has been used or abused, where do I go to? Is this the commission or I go to Court Street? Yes, some of the details of the law are still scheduled because it was just signed. So the committees will be seen but the commission has the sole rights to protect. That's why it was established. So what it means is that if you feel infringed upon, you can actually approach the commission and then make your complaints known to them and from there they can take it off. And so I think what is also needed here is enough awareness about all of these so that people can know that there is a law that protects them in the field infringed upon if their data has been disclosed or diverged in the way they feel it affects their persons. Okay, so tech companies in Nigeria would obviously need to do some sort of review or modifications. Am I right? I think you're right. Tech companies before that had registered before now would probably need to do some sort of review of their workings. Definitely. With this new law, everyone has to like I said, it used to be all commerce affair. Now with this law and there's a regulation in place everybody would need to begin to play by the books and begin to understand where they stand as it regards their policy for now and either to adjust Hello. or be meeting with what? Hello. Okay, Mr. Adaguru, can we hear you? Yes, I just want to add to what he said. To secret dress, the first thing is this let me give you a good example because let's give examples that people will understand. If you give your information, your data to a bank for instance and you find that this information is not accurate or even the electricity guys and first you will approach them every company now must have a data protection officer like I said to be on the safe side the person who understands that law who will be able to respond to you because the first thing is if I offend you you come to me and say look I've offended you I should be able to say oh sorry let me look at this offence and walk through it but if I give you seven days to correct that are you cheating? It is then I will take you up and report you because I can't just go to the commission immediately the commission will be in on data with queries and they won't be able to do their job effectively so it is the right of all organizations to have someone that will take care of your data protection someone that you can write to and it must be displayed on the platform the information person must be the name or if not the telephone number or the email address the best possible way to reach out to that person within 24 hours and the person must be able to respond and they should be able to respond within 48 hours otherwise they will be in trouble they know and in some cases you may not even go to the commission you can go to your attorney or to your and who will file a case and so they are in for it if we really want to do this people should just like the gentleman said there must be awareness the thing is this we are scared of these situations we don't even know what to do just leave them they have money they can defeat you and all it should not be most of us especially those who can afford it and those who have access to all these things they should be able if you mess around with my information and I want you to delete whatever you have posted about me and you don't delete it I take you out and it will cost you more than what you think even Google and all these big names and they will get back to you within 48 hours that is what must happen in Nigeria and that is where we have to follow the intentional standard if they don't have it they have the opportunity now to recruit people and put everything in order and the government must tell them as well if you don't put all these things in order that's what I'm saying the people to mend the commission must know what they are doing that is if these people don't put their bigger ones I mean maybe you talk about these giant e-commerce companies and all that they must be able to put all this in place and if they don't put it in place within a stipulated time they begin to pay fine the moment you slam a fine of about 100 million the rest will sit down but if you just take it for granted they take you for granted as well and that is what is important in this Mr. Lebede, are we reconnected with you? Can we hear you now? Hello Oh good Alright, we talked about how that it's been projected to create about 500,000 jobs tell us how this may come to be Can we hear you? Yes, we can hear you It's been projected that this bill would create about 500,000 jobs Let's look at how this may be come to be In addition to what was said earlier each of these companies now realize that beyond the department that they have now currently they need to have a data protection unit which also means that people will be in those units for these companies so what it means is that there are more job opportunities for young men and then from what has been said when the bill was signed it also means that Nigerians would be trained on data protection and regulations So invariably it's going to be a means of generating employment opportunities for youths who are data ready to take opportunities in this direction So definitely it is going to be there's going to be a ripple effect in employment and it's going to also mean that the new government will be delivering on their promises during the campaign So the data protection people that will be trained will now have permanent jobs or will it be that they will have some allowances while they are being trained and they are thrown back into the market because we've seen things like this when the president said that it's going to create 500,000 jobs these permanent jobs or they are just jobs that are connected to these data protection officers Let's know as a specific space If you are going to train these people just look at it we have to deviate from this idea of short P and power and all this kind of stuff because people may just feel we've had this before like you said after this training they dump them in the market but then some of them are even going to become self-employed consultants on their own and don't forget these people are not novices where most of them are people already working, most of them are people already they have ideas about this you cannot compel an organization to give a permanent employment the government cannot do that so even if people start as temporary workers even people will begin to say okay let me be self-employed so that I can have three or four companies I'm servicing and all that there will be opportunities given the people the opportunities because not every company we employ ten people but 500,000 for goodness sake it's not a big deal for a country like this so now it is the efforts the young men and women have to put into this to learn giving them stipend or giving them an allowance it has not been disclosed but I mean all this is just too early but I know the people want a lot of things come out immediately it should be worked out in a better form and I believe it's going to be better than the previous ones we've had because most of these things are not that it's not that the short peer or any other of these programs are not well taught but it's always a description so if people now see the opportunities that will be granted I believe a lot of people will go for it and some of this data protection training can be given straight from the NYC camps I don't know how they want to work at it I don't know whether it's going to be regional maybe senatorial you know wherever constituency local government could ever win it should be of advantage to young men and women and those who are interested because this is not just any kind of job you have to really understand it as something that has to do with the digitalization and with intelligence and with IT so it's more than just going there to just learn not only about collation of data and names and addresses it's more than that and this will really give us an advantage to have a tech hub in all the states and wherever people will actually say look we can train you you've been good and you can work elsewhere don't forget that Nigerians are working in Nigeria today in Lagos and they are servicing companies in America in UK and Canada and they are earning their money in dollars and Pakistan as well so it will be not just only for Nigeria young men and women will have the opportunity to have jobs not only you know specifically whether it's private or government but I think opportunities will be there beyond even 500,000 like I said let's give it some time it's just too early but it is not something that cannot be done it can be done okay one concern that you both have raised is that it all boils down to effective implementation let's look at the man at the hems of their affairs talking about Dr. Vincent or Latin G who is the pioneer commissioner for the Nigerian data protection bureau do you see him as one who can make sure that this works out well do you see him as one who will be effective personally I don't want to see that here and judge any individual about how it's going to do because the thing is I don't know what opportunity or what the lay down principle what are his conditions of service when he took up this job you know and I don't know how you know he must have his own ideas he must have what he wants to achieve so unless this is the kind of thing that we have to know from him asking him questions on what are those and how do you hope to achieve this and should be able to lay it down the way he wants to run it the way he wants to achieve it this is one thing that people have to find out because you can't just say okay it's not computer it's computer how do you judge someone who has not given the opportunity but before he's being put there I think he has his own antecedent I don't know this gentleman he was appointed in February of last year that's 2022 and recently recently also just got appointed to Forbes technology council for 2023 so he's up there seems to have I think yeah everybody I want to comment yeah I think from what has played out he has been part of the journey so far till this bill was signed into law so I believe by any methods he must have played one role or the other in the passing of the bill I mean it also means he understands the terrain like it was said he needs to now be talked to an interview to begin to see how he plans and intends to make this work it is a new terrain that I believe anybody at the end of the year wants to also prove his method and so behind me that he was part of the journey so far and looking at what has been put in place I believe there has to be some good show from him well thank you gentlemen it's so good to I want to gain what you have to understand is this one we're talking about training it's not going to be an easy thing for some people because you need a laptop you need equipment you need the tools so if you are setting young men and women we have to be trained who gives them these tools because a laptop today can cost about 300,000 or 400,000 or 200,000 something like that are they going to buy like what your colleague was trying to ask these tools must be provided for these to be very very effective these are the fundamentals we have to begin to look into we want to train them we are going to provide tools for them train them give them the tools to work and let them go into the field and begin to work you can train them with the laptop the best computer in a hall and when they go out they don't have anything to practice it's a constant thing they have to be on it 24-7 if possible to work and unless you provide the tools adequate ones make these people competent to work otherwise we can make it we will continue to beam the search light on this commission this is a very interesting conversation we want to see this work well thank you so much that's the much we can take right now the MD page me network and communication and Mr Joe Femme Daguaro chief strategist west of failure resources thank you so much gentlemen I appreciate you thank you it's time for us to give you the quote for the day before we wrap up it's not how much we have but how much we enjoy that makes happiness as according to Charles Pergion and we do hope that you've taken that into consideration and you make yourself happy in the best possible way this morning and beyond and I'd like to also remind you it's been on the internet everywhere and they're talking about on Sunday being Father's Day I don't know how many of you will remember that but we remember Mother's Day we remember Mothering Sunday we remember everything Mother's Day have like 20 but this is the one time you have stop exaggerating it's not up to 20 this is the one time you have that opportunity but seriously to say thank you to someone it may not be your biological father but there's always that father figure in your life that you need to say thank you or just make them feel nice if you cannot buy gifts there's a gift of speech that you can do so happy Father's Day to you all the fathers of any kind biological, academic or anyone happy Father's Day in advance my name is Nyam Gul at Gadgety let's do it again on Monday and happy Father's Day to every real man out there who's looking out for every child in the environment have a good week and goodbye