 percent nation audience. I'm Cody Askins. I am joined by one of my favorite people in this industry, Mr. David Duford with Final Expense Agent Mentor. How are you brother? I'm good. How you doing today Cody? Good man. Thank you so much for being on for those that dude. I don't know if anyone in our industry that doesn't know you, but just in case they don't David Duford owns and runs Final Expense Agent Mentor and DavidDuford.com. He's out of Chattanooga, Tennessee. He's been in the business quite a while, like 12 years maybe? 2011. Close. Eight years. There you go. Similar time frame. He's been in the business a long time. He knows his stuff. He puts out the dude puts out valuable content to help insurance agents almost every day, probably three, four, five times a week. Yeah. Yeah. Four times. Pretty consistently. It does an awesome job and as soon as we were building this conference and promoting this event and having it at Nissan Stadium, I knew that Dave was one of the guys that we had to get involved and had to have there. He's been an influence in my life. He's someone I've learned from. He's someone that dude, he had me. The dude had me in his book. If you haven't got a copy of this, you've got to check it out man. He's donating to help military. You've got to check it out. It's a cool book. He's giving back. It's a neat deal. So Dave is going to be a panelist speaker. We're going to have a live Q&A at the event with a panel. Fortunately for us, Dave is going to be there answering your questions live from the stadium seats at Nissan Stadium. So Dave, once you give our audience this growing 8% nation audience, a little bit more background about you. You've been in business since 2011 and just a little back story on who you are and how you got here. So I guess I can start from the we beginnings back in 2011. I failed out of my first business during the great recession and like many people that probably watched this, never imagined going into the life insurance market. Couldn't you imagine a less sexy profession, you know, life insurance. Anyways, when you're desperate, you do crazy things, right? So I stumbled across the final expense opportunity. I liked it because it was, at my perspective at the time, one call close, generally good commission rates. And there wasn't a lot of technical apparatus. I didn't have to know Medicare or, you know, more difficult types of life insurance products. So I got started there, did okay, and failed. I actually failed out within my first year of the business by doing dumb things and had to go back and work for somebody else. And but I look back and I'm grateful for it now because it was a teachable moment that A, you just have to do what you're supposed to do and stop trying to reinvent the wheel and B. It allowed me to appreciate what some people think are the frustrations or the frustrating side of selling insurance because the alternative is a lot worse. Trust me, working for somebody else, not having the career advancement potential that you can give yourself if you work hard is very hard when you work in the corporate world because you don't have access to that nearly as much as if you are responsible for your own outcomes. So I got back in the final expense. I've been here ever since, been doing a recruiting and training of agents since probably 2013, 2014, operate a national agency. We help agents with final expense. We also do mortgage protection, just launching a new annuity sales training program. You can see the books behind me, one by Kool-Aid over there. Cody's in that book and then the official guide to selling final expense is above my balding head. So I'm glad to be here, Cody. Thanks for having me. Dude, you got it, man. I'm extremely excited to have you a part of this conference to have you at this event. You mentioned something real quick. You mentioned that you've, because I think a lot of agents can learn from this is a real teachable moment. Like you said, you failed your first time jumping in the business due to doing dumb things. What were those dumb things? You know, there's a couple of things. The first thing was tinkering with a system that already works. You know, it's interesting. We live in a society or we live in a business world in which there's technological advancements. Everybody's telling you, you got to mark it online. You got to mark it this way. You got to do the business that way. And what's unique about final expense and some other insurance products, too, is that the system that's been proven to consistently work still works. And the other thing, and this is important for agents, too, it's that just because a system works doesn't mean you're not going to, you're going to eliminate the frustrations with it. I like to put it this way. There's an agent I know, his name is Ben Bowman, and he put it this way. He said basically three out of four people are going to tell you to go to hell. And the irony is that that's great. If you can maintain a ratio where three out of four people that aren't going to go in, fantastic. And so bottom line, you've got to embrace the reality of this business. You got to embrace the inherent aspects of it, good and bad, and commit yourself to it and park your critical thinking brain aside and understand that if this system has so much success and has been proven to be successful for decades, certainly other people have probably tried to modify it and change it and fail too. This is why this is the standard to follow. So I overcame that personality flaw, I guess in this sense, I would call it, and learned to shut up the tinkering side and work on what actually works. Is that like a natural thing? I think I can speak a lot to that where you kind of want to only almost create your own way rather than using other people's ways. A lot of people are like that. Yeah, no, I don't see that. I said it's funny because it's contextual, right? So I think a person who is creative is good. I'm not suggesting that people who are creative are going to fail at this business. It's just knowing when to be creative and under what circumstances. The final expense business is boring. It's not that complex. Direct mail works. You just buy leads and run them and follow a system and consistently do that. And that's what I got away from. I thought, well, there's other systems out there or maybe I could modify the lead card this way or minimize my deadbeat appointments by saying this and the card that way. And maybe I got a little success, but it detracts ultimately from what works. And so you've got to know when to be creative and when to shut it off. And I tell agencies now, even I say, look, I understand you're impetus to be creative and try this, you know, thinking about trying a new thing, but you need to earn the right to be creative. Meaning you've got to do this successfully and follow a system and be a good soldier for at least a year before you have any agency to change any of the system. At that point, go for it. You know, you know what you're doing. But until then, you have no knowledge. And that's another thing. You know, you don't even know what you don't know when you get started in this business. And it takes a certain level of humility to listen to somebody that you have to put trust into that's done this business. And a lot of people can't do that. They think they know better. They think they can one up the teacher. And it's just, it's a level of, I guess, maturity that some people don't have. And those are the ones that fail. And at that point, I had that to an extent. And thankfully, to an extent, overcame it and, and mod and overcame it and kept it under wraps a little bit better. Completely. Is there anything else that there was maybe something that was dumb that didn't help you that kind of affected that other than just keeping with the system? As far as me feeling out? Yes, sir. Not really. I mean, the only thing I could think of is that I look, you've run business, you've run appointments. Yeah, I've run lots of appointments. You know, you've dealt with people, I'm sure, who drive you nuts, right? Who waste your time, who don't buy from you. You experience the same frustrations that I have, right? And, and so as everybody else, we all experience the same thing. And, and what I found, it's not our competition, if there is any, really, I don't think there's really competition in this business. It's us, it's what goes on between our head, or between our ears that ultimately determines our success or failure. It's managing that frustration, that the ones who succeed in this business, if they can overcome that inner demon, I guess you could say, they'll get a level of sustainable success. But that's very difficult. And it's, it's not easy to see when you're starting off in this business. And that's something that I let get the best of me, because then it becomes a domino effect that affects your willingness to doorknock. You don't want to do it as much. You don't want to call as much. And if you don't put the activity in, then nothing's going to happen, you know, completely. That makes me think of a lot of agents that something works really, really well. And they have an incredible week. They just absolutely dominate that week. And then they want to recreate the will. They want to change everything up. They want to try something else. Like you said, they want to, you know, that maybe the creative genius kicks in. When a lot of times the system is the system, the system works, you know, and like we talk about, and the purpose of the conference, 8% nation, 92% of insurance agents fail. Everyone wants to succeed. Everyone wants to create wealth. Everyone wants to be like you. Everyone wants certain things, but it's not always that easy. And so I'm excited for them to be able to hang out with people like you, with people like me, with people like Grant Cardone, Ray Lewis, and other individuals in this industry that are what I like to call influencers, insurance influencers. Somebody told my wife that recently, she said, yeah, I see all your guys' videos. You must be like insurance influencers. Well, I'm like, I guess so, you know. So is there anything else that you want to share before I jump into the conference and ask you a few questions or anything you want to share? Because we've got some agents watching and they will watch later on our channels and on our Facebook that you would like to be able to express to a new or struggling insurance agent. I mean, so the first thing is you got to make sure that you believe in what you sell. That's the first thing. You know, a lot of people don't believe in what they sell. If you don't believe in whatever product it is that you're selling, final expense or otherwise, and you don't have a passion for it, you don't have to be in love with it. Sometimes love comes later. But you got to believe what it is, it's good, and it helps people. And you like the market you're working. And if you don't have that, it's just a slow road to demise. So you got to find something that, you know, you feel excited about. And if you're not always excited, at least feel good about doing. And you know it's a good thing. Second of all, you need to work with an organization that aligns with your values, that you like your upline, that delivers on what it is that you need and services you when you need it. And thirdly, in line with that, you need to have a sales and marketing system. This business is boring. I'm telling you, it's boring. You don't have to go out there and have some magical company. There's not some magical lead system that you don't know about that a few people in the ivory tower does that you can't have access to and all this stuff. There's simple systems out there. And that's the thing is the fundamentals of what matter in this business. You need leads on a consistent basis, and you need to hit your presentations on a consistent basis to whatever extent that you need for your income goals. So part of that is also building a strategy. Lastly, once you've established all this stuff, execute. Don't go changing the system a month later. This goes back to our conversation earlier. Don't reinvent the wheel. Trust and believe. It's so funny how a lot of this process of being in business is almost a faith-based argument. I use the word have faith, have trust in the system. And it's weird. It comes out like that. And I don't intend it to be, but there's a lot of that. You can't control everything. There's certain things you can control. The serenity prayer. There you go. And there's certain things you can't. And you got to know the difference between what you can and you can't. And in this business, it's all about controlling your sits. It's all about controlling your presentations and being maniacal about achieving that on a consistent weekly, daily basis. Because if you do, the law of large numbers applies and you'll begin to get appointments consistently and sales consistently. And sure you have ups and downs, we all do. But life is a lot better when you're doing that. So, long story short, just do what you're told. Go out there, work, see the people. Don't think, execute. Completely. For those just joining us, David Dufour, you guys have heard of him. You've seen him probably, finally, Spence Agent Mentor. He's all over YouTube. He's got like 800 videos. He's got like 4,100 YouTube subscribers. Super well known in the insurance space. Before we jump into a question that I know you'll like because you've written two books, is you mentioned numbers. You talk about sits. I always talk about sitting with 10 people. What's your philosophy on numbers that an agent can make a goal every week? Yeah, so I think I read a book behind me. It's called, I don't know what it's called, but it's by a guy named Tony Gordon, if you look it up. He's a producer in the UK. And he looks at numbers on a 15 appointment basis. And I've heard a lot of people say the magic 15. A guy I learned final expense from early on. Basically, guys named Travis Tubbs, his goal is to set 15 appointments a week as well. And that's how he trained all his agents to do as well. So the 15 number is kind of like a really good benchmark. I think it allows for enough numbers to come into play to where averages can start playing out. Ultimately, it just depends on what your goals are, right? I mean, look, if you track your numbers, and you find that every 10 appointments, you know, you make five sales, and you need 20 leads to get it. And once you account for the expense of your leads and the profit remaining, and if that satisfies your income goals, then that's fine. You know, I'm not, I'm not so, you know, rigid on a particular number. It comes down to the ratios come down to conversions, comes down to your numbers. But I think 15 is a good number to strive for for a full time agent. We're talking three appointments a day, right? Right. Anybody can do that door knocking, you start at nine o'clock in the morning, you should be able to hit three before dinner time from five days a week. And that's not that hard. You need the leads to do it. You need to obviously the effort to play it. But I think that to me is the big number. 15 is a good number for a full time guy. But again, like you say 10, might be 10, you know, it just. Well, I'm thinking like, because something I've always preached to, and I think we're actually saying the exact same thing is set 15, sit with 10, sell, you know. Yeah, exactly. Basically, it just, it just comes down to, it just comes down to a number that is challenging but achievable. And you can see the system work on paper, and then executing, you know, it's if you need 10 appointments, and one out of three is going to no show, you need to set 15, like you said. And if you need, if you get only, if you get, if you get in the three out of four of your leads, well, then, you know, you need 20 leads. And so you can start working backwards, and then you'll see a pattern eventually. And then it will motivate you as to what you need to hit on a daily basis, almost like an assembly line, you know, it's almost like manufacturing, you need to put so much inputs in, so many doorknocks before you get the output, which is a close deal. I've always heard you say that, I love the way you put it that way. There's a lot of people in our industry that would say, dude, 15 isn't enough, you know, well, 92% of agents fail because they don't hit 15. So and I find a Cody, I'll mention this to you, I think most of you guys, all the agents out there listening are probably pretty good in front of their clients. I mean, most people don't fail out of this business because they suck at selling, right? It's not it's just they're bad at getting in front of people. They don't have enough people to talk to you. Like that's the reason most people fail out is they'll see they'll see five people a week. And they're frustrated because like, man, I only made two sales this week, but I got in front of five. How many people get in front of Dave? Five. Well, that's a pretty good conversion ratio. Why don't you just triple your activity? I mean, it's the great thing about it. It is a problem that can be solved. You know, and so I think, and I've always, I've always felt this way. Look, I'm big on training. I think it's important to have a process and selling and have a coaching and training and all that stuff. But way I think that takes a backseat to getting the activity in. It's a numbers business first. You've got to put the impact with your prospects. And once you hit the numbers, you could be mediocre at selling and doing great. But most people don't hit them, even hit the numbers. That's why I make an obsessive plead agents. You got to hit numbers if you want to be anything in this business because that's what it comes down to first and foremost. Then the sales training comes to play and we can refine that. Yeah, well, and they're going to, their skill as a salesperson will only get better the more active they do. So yeah. Yeah, exactly. The more appointments you do, you get better. You know, this is a business where you learn by doing. And it's hard for people who are paralyzed by analysis to get that. But you have to get out there and execute. You have to, as Yoltsang goes, ready, fire, and aim. And there's no way around that. You've got to go out there, execute, and trust. There it is again. Have faith, trust in the process. You'll get better. And you may screw up a few, but that's your tuition you're paying. And you'll learn your lesson, and you'll get better. Completely true. For those just joining us, this is David DuFord, owner of Finance and Budget Mentor, and davidduford.com. He's been the business for a long time. Tons of training videos from Chattanooga. He's going to be on our speaker panel answering your questions at Nissan Stadium. Let's jump into one thing that I know is important to you, which is self-improvement. And really, you talked about personal brand. Well, you wouldn't have the personal brand you have today if you hadn't put into developing you in self-improvement, personal development, books, audio books, learning, mentors, which I know a lot of people struggle with, especially me. I kind of know your thought on it, because you get two books that you've written right behind you. What's your honest opinion for those wondering, hey, is it really important? Yeah, I mean, I think so. I think, and this is something I've reached, I've always been a reader to a certain extent, but I've been undisciplined. I'd have periods of time where I'd read and then stop. What I've done this year I think has been very impactful is I've made it a mission in mind to read one book a week. Sometimes the shorter books, sometimes the longer books. And to read from a variety of sources, not just sales or self-improvement, but also autobiographies are really good. And biographies and that kind of thing. Tony Robbins, and this is something that stuck with me that he said once as far as self-improvement goes, is you want to read self-improvement books, of course, you know how to get better at selling industry-specific stuff as well, like a lot of the books that I've talked about in my videos. You also want to read autobiographies. I just got done reading Ben Franklin's autobiography. What a great book, man. Guy is just an excellent book, because what you find in an autobiography is a humanity behind these legendary figures. And you realize that people are people, you know? And you kind of get a little look into their lives as far as what made them different and how they're successful. But you see that they're human too. And then you can make more of a connection with them. You realize that perhaps what they did is achievable in your own life. So I think it's important to intermix autobiographies. Anything is good, especially successful people. People have had ups and downs in life as good. But anything that you enjoy. So yeah, I mean, just read, just read. And you'll find, I find that people will be, they take in, people take in information differently. Like some people are more audio-visual, right? Others are more, when they read information, it makes an impact. I would say expose yourself to all of those things. For me personally, I do tons of videos. And while videos have an impact on me, I'm more of the reading type. If I read it, it has a much more profound impact on me. So if I'm looking to expand my mind and open my mind to self-improvement, I read. Again, that's my focus. Videos and audio and that kind of thing kind of take a second. See, yeah. That's cool. And that's cool that you put it kind of in a different way too. I literally just read an article earlier today and I've heard it for years. I actually did one of our videos today was about this exact subject. Most people don't realize that CEOs and executives in general read about a book a week. Exactly what your goal is right now and what you're doing. Where the average business person reads maybe a couple of years. And so if you think about it, I gave a Kobe Bryant illustration. When he was 10, he played in a summer league. He scored zero points the entire summer. And then by age 12, he was the best in the state because he simply put in more time than others. He's put in two or three hours a day where his friends were put in an hour or two a week. Simply kind of very, very, very similar to reading and developing self-improvement and doing those things. Mozart would, when he would practice, when Mozart would practice on the piano, when he was doing scales or appraisios, he would have a list like a one side of the piano, he'd have like coins, right? And then on the other side, he'd have nothing. And he would go through the process of practicing whatever he was, the scales or whatever. If he screwed up, or if he did it successfully, he'd move one coin over. And at the moment he screwed up, he'd move all the coins back over. He would not stop until he moved all the coins or whatever apparatus he was using to the other side. This pigheaded discipline and determination with being consistent and executing perfectly. And yeah, I mean, that's what's great about insurance, too, is that insurance, like you said, you can make up for a lack of talent or experience with hard work. I mean, that's what really attracted me to this business, too, is that I knew I could work hard. I had run a personal training business prior. I was already self-motivated. That didn't deter me. And it inspired me because it's like the sky's the limit. When you're in the driver's seat, man, you can accomplish anything. All you just need is the time to see it through and the consistency. And again, that's easier said than done. I think that's kind of the moral of the story talking about success in insurance business. A lot of it comes down to what's up here, not the leads or the products you're selling. Completely. That's so difficult to think about and overcome, too, as a salesperson. It's so true. What do you expect? And I know you don't know a ton yet, but about this specifically, but what do you expect for not only agents to learn at this event and at this conference by being at an insurance wealth conference in general? How can that help them? And also, what can they expect from you as a live panelist on the stage in front of 1,000 agents at Nissan Stadium? Oh, boy. No pressure here. Best performance, obviously, on stage, number one. I don't know. I think what you can expect from me is humility. I've always been real on camera. And I'm the same as I am here as I am on talking to my agents. I like talking about this journey or this path that we take and the many travails and curves that it takes. And I like being straightforward. It's a tough business, but everybody who's on stage, whether they sell insurance or not, has gone through the same similar path and have come out extremely successful. And it's very important to listen to their stories because you'll find more often than not, there's more similarities in their differences. Very rarely do the people who succeed in life have everything in their favor to begin with. They didn't have access to money. They weren't rich to begin with. They had to fight hard for where they're at. And it's inspiring for those people who started from very little, who are with very little to see what is possible. The other thing I think that's good about conferences, and this is kind of less talked about. Speakers are great. You'll learn good technical information, motivational information. But what's really good and what you'll really get a lot of information from is the camaraderie between the attendees. A lot of people, I've heard this a lot. I had this happen on a conference I went a couple of years ago. You learn a lot from just interacting with people and mixers and just meeting different agents and befriending, seeing what they're doing, what's working. So you're going to get a lot of just value from that. Sometimes it's more than what the presenters do. Again, this is what people say. So I think there's a multifaceted reason to go to this conference. One, to learn from influencers, like you said, and top people in different industries and insurance backgrounds. And two, to meet with your fellow peers who are fighting tooth and nail to see the people just like you and share stories of success and ways to improve. Exactly, buddy. Well, dude, we are excited to have you a part of this event. Thank you for doing this as well, man. As you guys know, I don't know if I say it enough. I'm a huge fan of this guy. He's one of the coolest dudes in our industry. He does a lot for our industry. And so, we're excited to have you a part of the event. We're excited to have you on the stage, a 24-foot wide stage on the field, looking up with the seats. David Duford, bounce points agent mentor. He's going to be coming to Nashville in October for 8% Nation to be a live panel speaker answering your questions live from stage. Dave, thank you again for being on, buddy. Really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks, Cody. Any time. All right. And everyone else is going to be at this event or if you don't have your seat and you want to meet Dave at the event, you want to hang out with him at the party. You want to be able to meet him backstage. You want to get a picture with him, whatever. You've got to go to 8%nation.com to grab your seat to be there to come learn the mindset, the mission and the moves to produce millions. We're excited to see you there, Dave. Thanks again for being on, buddy. Bring your books. I'll sign them. Let's do it. There you go, man. Bring the books and Dave will sign them. That is cool. You got to do that. Again, he's got a couple of books that you may want to check out, man, right behind him. I was fortunate to be in one. What a cool dude. There you go. Thanks again, buddy. We'll see you in the next show, brother. See you soon.