 All right, it is 11 and so we are going to get started. I wanted to let everybody know ahead of time as I'm starting the introductions that we are recording. You are welcome to have your camera on or off. Please make sure that your mic is muted and we will try to save a few minutes at the end for questions and answers and thank everybody for coming. So hello and welcome to this semester's ADHC talks. The ADHC talks are conversations with folks in the ADHC's community of scholars. Our talks happen on the first Friday of every month at 11 and are live streamed and recorded on Zoom and then archived on our website. These conversations are semi-structured and I've sent our guest a list of starter questions that we're going to build off of and we will allow the conversation to organically evolve from there. I'm Sarah Whitver. I'm the head of the Alabama Digital Humanities Center here at the University of Alabama Libraries. And today I am so excited to be joined by Dr. George Daniels. Dr. Daniels is an associate professor of journalism and creative media at the University of Alabama. This year he's also a pedagogy innovation fellow for the history makers. His research focuses on issues of diversity in the media workplace, which we'll be hearing more about today as he introduces us to his current work this semester where graduate students and undergraduate students in his race, gender and media class are utilizing the history makers digital archive to deepen our understanding of African-American experiences specifically as they relate to Alabama history and standing in the schoolhouse door, I believe. So without any further ado, we're gonna hop in to our interview questions. Welcome, Dr. Daniels. Sarah, thank you so much. It is exciting to participate in my very first ADHC talks. I've not spent a lot of time in the ADHC. So to be online, talking with you and others on campus just a great day. And also it's the first day of a brand new month. So welcome to September. Welcome to September. And it's a beautiful day. It's not 100 degrees. Yes, absolutely. Yet. But my thermometer is saying that it's 85 outside. So that's a really nice break. Dr. Daniels, can you tell us a little bit about your research and specifically I'm interested always in finding out what makes people feel nerdy and excited. So tell me about your research and specifically regarding your research, what makes you feel super nerdy and excited? Well, you mentioned diversity and media workplace and diversity is something that I have been connected to since I came out of the womb 53 years ago because I'm from an underrepresented racial group in this country called now we call ourselves African-Americans. And so from the very day I was born, I came into a world that still doesn't always treat people who are African-American the same as they treat others. And that is a challenge, but it is also an advantage because it means I have a story to tell. And not only have I had a story to tell, but there are like 3000 people like me who've told their stories and they're recorded in the history makers. And so in my research on media and in particular media messages and the people who make those messages, I'm always trying to capture stories and incorporate those stories. What would they be stories of the past, stories of the present or stories where we're gonna go on in the future? And so that is what I have been doing for many years. This is my 21st year at the University of Alabama. Think about that for a moment that when I started here, my students in my 9 a.m. journalistic principles and practices class Monday, Wednesday, Friday weren't born. You were not even born. Okay, but the history makers interviewing was already underway in 2003. It started in 1999. And so now I get to incorporate those stories in my research. Just a few weeks ago, I submitted a manuscript that focuses on the story of the managers, the leaders who created what's known as Black Radio. That is radio programming that is oriented toward, formatted for that reflects the experiences of those who are African-American. It's been around for many, many, many decades. I mean, radio as medium is now 100 years old. And we know that within those 100 years, there have been urban or black formatted programming for decades. But what we haven't heard is the experiences of the people who lead those radio stations. And so the piece I just finished really pulled in about 15 different oral histories and what we learned from those oral histories about the journey of those radio leaders. And in the process of doing that, I had to get deep into the words that were said, the transcriptions. I also, in some of my research, have found myself going through lots of file folders and transcriptions. And I think when you get excited about stuff, when you are a pack rack like I am, you save everything, when you see a stack of old things, people wanna get rid of, you go, ah, don't throw it away. There's stuff in there, there's a study in there. That's the nerdy part of the research that I do. When you talk about getting excited about newspapers, old newspapers, old maybe 2020 or old maybe 1820, that's kind of a nerdy part of what I do as an emerging media historian, but also as one who's interested in, what can those stories tell us about where we are in 2023 and where we're going in 2024 and 2025? So that's an example of some of the research that I've been doing in 2023. Wonderful. I love that connection of like nerdy and old pack rat stuff. I think that's very like, we can all recognize that. Well, libraries have a good place to keep all that stuff. And fortunately, my house has become a library and my office has a lot, I have so many libraries and my friends and my family say, when are you gonna throw away some of that stuff? But I'm one that I run to it. And I wanna know what was the first edition of that book and what did we learn in the first edition that we didn't know in the second edition or third edition? Yeah, yeah. Just so much there. Yeah. And there's so much potential for us to collaborate with that stuff. So much. I have so many ideas. You can make digital artifacts from those items. That's what makes... Digitizing it. But then, you know, we've had so many conversations about like different types of mapping projects and not just like geography mapping, but like semantic mapping and like chronology mapping and doing all of these things because we're gonna get into this in just a minute, but you're not just teaching your students to access these primary source resources and the digital archive of the history makers, but you're having them actually create digital projects out of them in order to represent certain types of research that they're doing that they really wouldn't be able to build out outside of a digital environment. So that leads me back into my next question for you. And that is, what is your history with digital humanities? And sort of how did you arrive at this current project, specifically the class that you've built out that uses the history makers? Well, I would say my history with digital humanities is really short. I will say that outside of my teaching, I had a student just a couple of years ago now I'm working with the local YMCA, the one that is known as the Benjamin Barnes YMCA to capture the history of that Y because that is a Y that at one time was the only one that served African-Americans in Tuscaloosa. And at this moment, there is a great deal of excitement about a new Y that's going to open on the West side of Tuscaloosa. So years ago, we had a graduate student who was charged with gathering interviews with people who remember the early years of the Benjamin Barnes Y and to talk with the people who could explain the significance of this location in serving people in the city of Tuscaloosa. And so those interviews have been completed. However, the student who worked on those graduated. So we've got to get those interviews in a format that they can be accessed by people across Tuscaloosa. And so that is a project that we've been working in conjunction with the Digital Humanities Center, the library to present, we know what there is software that can do it, the website was, I think, established. And so we're now taking the interview clips and the information about Benjamin Barnes. And the product of that is going to complement what we learn about the new location when it opens, I think, in the next couple of years. But that's an example of a project that we value our relationship with the Digital Humanities Library to make happen. In the process of doing that project, I learned more about what we know as digital humanities. First of all, journalism is not in the humanities. However, I have worked in a partnership with an organization called the Alabama Humanities Alliance for several years because there's been a great deal of interest in the humanities community about the power of journalism to help us understand history, the power of journalism to help us connect people in a community. And so in those collaborations that we have had most recently, this particular project actually generated a podcast that was presented in 2022. So in the process of doing that, I learned more about the value of interdisciplinary work. And digital humanities really can't exist without bringing together people from different backgrounds. So this course that I teach, race, gender, and media has been around for a decade. But most of our work is focused on documentaries, videos, news messages, public relations campaigns, advertising, and what they tell us about race and what they tell us about gender. And we've had multiple textbooks with research articles to read and we look at current projects and that's great. But the ultimate outcome of the class is for students to make something. That when they get involved in making something, they see the intersection between race and gender and media. And so we've always had that as a culminating assignment. The exciting thing about fall 2023 is we're gonna make something with the largest archive of African American history, oral histories in the world. And we're gonna learn how to use new tools at the same time. And so that's how we got to where we are now. I'm a little scared because I haven't used these tools before. I've seen projects that were great, that were finished with them, but I'm scared that I'm gonna have to really grow in a big way to myself be able to show students how to make these tools work. So we're getting there, but I'm growing in the process. Yeah, I am too. I have not worked this closely with the class on their graded assignments in my capacity as digital humanities librarian. So, I started my position in October. So this is a learning experience for me as well. And it's different from the type of teaching that I've done in the past. So I'm very excited about it. And I'm really grateful for the opportunity for both of us to be able to grow and learn through this experience. Absolutely, absolutely. Can you tell us some more specifics about your project that your students are going to be working on and sort of what your goals are for assigning these projects and who is your audience for them? Sure, you know, I think it will be good to introduce the history makers because that'll be central to the assignments. And then I'll talk more about the assignments if that's okay. Perfect. Why don't we do that? I'm gonna share my screen and just tell you a little bit more about history makers because the history makers digital archive is what is the engine of the assignment this year. And we can do many things with media. Some students in the past have just made a PowerPoint, which is when I'm showing you right now. And it's not the product as much as it is the process that we want students to learn from. But when you put together information from different sources and share it with others and explain it to others, you're demonstrating your learning. But the history makers database is a new part of the University of Alabama library of databases. It really came to us just over a year ago. And it is something that I think is extremely valuable. But as the largest digital archive of African American oral histories, there is no place in the world that has 3,000 voices, hours and hours of video all in one place. And it is housed at the Library of Congress right next to the other archive that is a historic gathering of voices. And that is the WPA slave narratives. As long as you remember the works progress administration. Well, decades ago, there were efforts made to sit down with former enslaved Africans and ask them to tell their stories. Well, those recorded stories are housed in the same facility in suburban Washington DC as the 3,000 oral histories of African Americans who are history makers. And this initiative really began more than two decades ago by a woman based in Chicago, her name is Juliana Richardson. And she said, we must be intentional about capturing the stories from the 20th century that these African American heroes and sheroes are passing on and they have wisdom to share. And that wisdom needs to be recorded so that another generation can grow and develop from what they've shared. And so that archive, while the operation is headquartered in Chicago, it is housed at the Library of Congress. And all of those videos tell us so much. We're talking about 11,000 hours of content that you can search. We're also talking about interviews with not just people in media, but arts and business, fashion, astronauts, these interviews were conducted in hundreds of towns and cities, some even outside of the US. And this has been going on since 1999. In fact, the very first interview was with someone connected to a radio station where I worked as an undergraduate student at Howard University, where is today the Kathy Hughes School of Communications. Well, that school has not one, but two radio stations. The Kerry Current radio station was started because students back in the 1970s said, we're not getting enough time to be on air, to do our own thing. We wanna have our own radio station. We appreciate the fact that there is this commercial station, but we need a place to do our thing. Well, that initiator of that radio station, his name is Barry Mayo. He was the first interview in 1999. But then they're also in that same archive or more than 200 of the nation's top scientists. When we talk about the African-American women who are involved in science, many of them are also in the digital archive. The digital archive. For my purposes as a journalist and as a mass media researcher, I'm spending a lot of time with these nearly 400 media makers because they can tell us so much more about our journey when it comes to media. And that's how I was able to connect it to my race-gender media cause. You can access the history makers archive just by using your phone, your iPad. The beauty of this archive is it is accessible on any digital device. And even if you don't have access to the full archive, the general public can go to the general history makers website and see a couple of examples of clips from these interviews and a full biography of these 3000 history makers. Here at the University of Alabama, we are excited because we have access to the full archive. And that allows me to then engage my students in searching that archive for information related to the topics of my class. I'm teaching a class on race, gender and media. There are many, many subtopics that we're covering but I can get into the collection using some pre-established tags or topics whether they be historical or biographical, qualities of the interviewees or I can do it based on a person I really want to interview like Maya Angelou. And I find that person through a maker directory. And once I've watched the interview, I can determine do I want to use that particular clip. In this example on the slide, you see Asian-American because under the topic of race, gender and media, we're going to have a unit on Asian-Americans media. Well, the archive is African-Americans but you best believe these African-Americans were also connected to Asia, East Asia, South Asia. And so we talk about Asian-Americans, there are messages from these African-Americans about Asian-Americans. And so I can go through the clips, find ones that are related to what I'm teaching or what I'm researching as a student and now I have the ability to build a story. I can do searching with phrases, I can be searching with wildcards like the use of that asterisk. There are many, many ways I can search that archive. But that archive is what I am so excited to bring into the class, not only for the student project, which I mentioned earlier, but what we're talking about is reimagining what the syllabus looks like. You know, in 2023 and 2022, really since George Floyd in 2020, the race revolution, there's been an increased discussion about what do I do to diversify the readings and assignments in what I'm teaching. That process sometimes called scrubbing my syllabus is all about asking how inclusive is my content in my class? And so when I really began to use the digital archive, I learned not only is there information about Asian-Americans in that archive, but there's information about media management. There's information about Afro or Afro-centricity. There's information about radio and public relations and advertising that these stories of African-Americans are American stories. And that is what I can use to teach students about the core learning outcomes of my class. And so the readings that we're doing are supplemented with clips from the digital archives. And I'm not just pre-selecting all the clips for the students to watch. I am sending them to the archive to find clips about immigration, to find clips about politics and race, to find clips about sports and media, to find clips about minority ownership, to find clips about Alabama and integration and George Wallace and libraries and engineering. They are so many things that they can go and search for themselves and bring them to the class. So one of the assignments in the class is called you search. And that means you go to the archive, we give you a topic, we may even give you a reading and we say now from that reading, what are some things you can find more information in the archive? So what that does is it empowers the students to drive their own learning. It mandates active learning and it puts them in the driver's seat of what we're doing with our class periods and what we're learning. So it's a mixture of teaching them to use the archive, bring the content to the class, connect the archive to what they've read and then as we mentioned earlier, make something. When you can integrate all of those into one class, you have a wonderful thing. So that's a little bit about the class. I do wanna show you how to search the archive but let me stop and ask if you have another question. Actually, I wanted to talk a little bit about the artifacts that your students are getting ready to make because when we were talking about the partnership with the Digital Humanities Center, this is the part that I am really invested in and I'm very excited about because your students are going to do this searching and they're going to be researching in depth each of these media makers but then they're going to be building out digital objects. So I've pulled up the night lab tools that we're going to use with your students and I thought I would show them and then we can just sort of talk about sort of what your vision is for what these are going to look like as the artifacts that your students are creating and sort of what your aspirations are for they're creating these artifacts. So let me go ahead and share this with you. So you can see the night lab stuff now. Can you see that? Yeah. Yeah. All right. There it is. Now I can. All right. So your students are going to be pulling things out of the history makers digital archive and then they're going to be processing them intellectually and then mapping them using two different tools from Northwestern University's night labs, story maps and timeline which are fairly easy DH tools that I think are really like very impactful for students. And so I'm here on the night lab website so that I can show you which ones we're going to use but we've got the story map and we've got timeline right here. Those are the two that we have chosen. And so a story map is a geographic mapping tool where your students are going to be taking several data points and mapping them out and putting media graphics and building out information so that they're one of their graded assignments to create a story map using history makers. And then the other one is that we're going to use timeline and they're going to be mapping out in a timeline the history of one of the themes that they choose. So would you like to talk a little bit more about how the use of these tools are going to support your learning outcomes for your course? Store, as I mentioned earlier, one of the things we always shoot for is the students are not just consuming media and analyzing media, but they are able to make something. Yes. And so because the archive is rich with stories, rich with different locations, rich with anecdotes over decades, even some anecdotes over a short period of time, when you use the story map and the timeline, you are able to take that content and create something new. So we start with the archive itself. And if I'm going to share, that's okay, I'm going to go back to the history makers website itself. And you can get to this by going to the university libraries and looking at databases. And so every day when you log into history makers, you are able to see those interviewees who were born on that day. It's a neat little feature. And I have spent a lot of time late at night and more than once have seen these change because the day has changed from one day to the next. But the power in this is the different ways you're able to go to the maker directory. So let's say I wanted to look for people who have a connection to the crimson tide. I could use a maker directory to find someone who was African-American who might have connected to the crimson tide, maybe been a member of the football team. Or I could use the search and ask in the archive as a whole, what can we learn about crimson tide in the archive? I'm going to put that in quotes because I don't want words that are crimson and words that are tide, I want those to be together. When I do that, I come up with four stories. So there are four video clips from history makers talking about crimson tide. Now, let's see what they say about the crimson tide. I left Lafayette in 86. And I left there to go to be the executive officer on USS Blueback, SS 581. And Blueback was stationed in San Diego, California. We operated primarily up and down the Pacific coast and we lived in San Diego in those days. I guess the more notable thing. So the beauty of this is while you're listening, you can also read ahead because all of the archive, 100% of it is digitized and transcribed. Well, when you look ahead, you can find out that this word combination crimson tide has also been used as a title of a book. But it doesn't have anything to do with the Alabama crimson tide. So this is not what we're going to use, but we found it anyway. What about less paint? What does he have to say about the crimson tide? Another thing I remember about the South is that I saw the Klan once when we had moved from 16th Street to 22nd Street. And there was one night around, shortly around dusk, there was this long line of cars, you know, that drove by our neighborhood and someone said they were the Klan. They didn't stop or intimidate us. Someone said there wasn't a Klan. I mean, the adults whispered that it was a Klan. They didn't tell us we were chosen. They didn't tell us anything. They told us, I didn't know what the Klan was at that point, obviously. But I should say that Tuscaloosa has a reputation for being the home of the University of Alabama, crimson tide. We knew about them. We listened to their football games on the radio. There was a guy named Harry Gilmour. I remember him, he was a quarterback. I mean, we listened to their games. We couldn't go to their games. We could not attend their schools, the University of Alabama. We listened to the University of Crimson Tide games and I also remember Tuscaloosa was also famous. So in that comment, he speaks to his connection to the Crimson Tide. Now you might say, wait a minute, is he saying the Crimson Tide or the Puclos Klan? No, but in the midst of him talking and recalling his experience, he sidebar explained what the University of Alabama is known for. And so we can learn about Alabama Crimson Tide even in a topic that might be less than positive. The key thing is to recognize our stories, Sarah, are embedded in our recollections of different parts of our life. And this archive is replete with those stories and recollections and ones that are rich. All right, another reference to Crimson Tide. Not so much in this archive as I look at the transcripts, but here's the key. When I use a different search term like University of Alabama, do I come up with four? No, I come up with 1,294. So now our students and anyone watching this podcast can see there is much said about the University of Alabama in the archive. And so the key with this class and these assignments is to then develop a way to go through these interview clips and find a story, a narrative that you can then visually depict. First, you want to, as I showed on my presentation slide, call the clips and see what we can learn. So on this particular first page, there's this woman by the name of Sharon Malone. She's in that first line, she's in the third line, she's in the fourth line. Who is Sharon Malone? So the other thing that I wanted to ask which you just alluded to, can you tell me what family life was like? You know, because you're the baby and I didn't even realize so Vivian had already integrated. So how old were you when Vivian and? Four. Four, okay, so you really have no memory of that? No, my first memory of that, you know, and sometimes you incorporate other people's memories into your own, you know, I've heard the story so many times, but my first actual memory was when she graduated. Now that I remember, because that was 1965. So yeah, Vivian went to the University of Alabama June 11th, 1963. And can you just tell that story since we're here? And then I'll go to the family. Sure, sure. My sister Vivian went to, again, everybody in my family graduated high school through the public segregated high school, Central High. And when she graduated high school, there was, she had some little mix up about her transcript not getting out on time, whatever, and she wanted to apply to the University of Alabama had an extension school in Mobile, which was also not integrated. And my parents didn't have a lot of money. So, you know, the thought of going out of state or going someplace that she really could have gone wasn't really an option for her. So she decided, you know, she wanted to go someplace that was in state. And just around that time, and now we're talking, it's 1960 when she was applying to college, they were looking for someone to challenge the University of Alabama. And Vivian was one of probably hundreds of students who had applied to the University of Alabama since authoring Lucy integrated it really in 1956. After authoring Lucy was expelled from the University of Alabama for creating a riot because people tried to kill her the first couple of days she was there, they never admitted another black student. So they kept, you know, and people would apply. They would apply and they would, they'd intimidate the parents. They'd just summarily say no. And when they had students that they really couldn't dismiss on, you know, academic qualifications, if your parents held a mortgage, if your parents had a job, you know, somewhere they literally would investigate, they would go and have your employer, you know, say, hey, maybe that's not a good idea. And this went on for, you know, four or five years. So just in playing that part of the clip, I'm able to see lots of things that we can then grab and notes in terms of location, in terms of time. She mentioned 1956, she mentioned 1963, she mentioned the effort to apply to the school. What we are then able to do is to take that type of information and visually show it on a time well. We can go back to 1956 and when Arthurine Lucy attempted to desegregate the university. We can do another date when she was expelled. We can do another date for 1962 or three when Vivienne Malone applied based on her letter, based on the account of her sister. And then we could also show where did Arthurine Lucy come from versus where Vivienne Malone came from, Mobile versus whatever area of the state that those individuals are coming from. And the point is to be able to take the information in those clips and bring them together in a new product. Because the digital archive is a proprietary source, only those who have a license can access the videos. We can't extract the video clips themselves, but we can use quotations and we can use still pictures and we can bring those elements together and make something. So we could make something on Sharon Malone. Yes. And we could make something in a map that shows where she was coming from, where Tuscaloosa is. We can make something with the dates that I just mentioned and show over time what happens. And when you click on those dates, out pops a two or three sentence explanatory about what was going on at that time. And all of a sudden we can walk our viewer, our reader, our user through the desegregation of the University of Alabama. We can walk our reader or our viewer through unknown or a lesser known people who are connected to the University of Alabama. I mean, just from that search, the hundreds of clips, if we were to go back and look at who was speaking, we could take those screenshots or thumbnails and tie together people who are connected to the University of Alabama from around the country. And we can map their locations. So there are endless possibilities with what you can take the information from the archive and the tools and story map and story timeline, JS timeline and really create new things. So exciting. We are getting ready to wrap up and I want to make sure to tell everyone that the projects that we're talking about right now, your students are going to be presenting them in November here in person at Gorgas Library. And I believe it's going to be in Camille your room, which is on the second floor of Gorgas Library and it will be November 6th. That's correct. Monday, November 6th at five o'clock. Yeah, and anybody who's watching this talk is welcome to come if you have access to campus and please feel free to shoot me an email if you need any more information, but we will have some more announcements and information. So keep an eye on our calendar and our Instagram, the university's calendar, it will be on the university's calendar. And I'm just, I'm so excited to be able to see how your students take this amazing archive and start really focusing in on sort of exploring these stories with a little bit of a magnifying glass. Absolutely, absolutely. That's what we want them to be able to do is to see that in studying history, they gain a context that explains much of the present. You know, as we're doing this podcast today, we're in the 60th anniversary of a desegregation of the university. And it's one thing to just talk about what happened on June 11th, 1963. It's another thing when students can not only remind us of what happened, but bring in insights from those who are around at the time, who remember what was going at that time, who understand the implications of what was happening at that time, and can apply that to where we are now. In my 9 a.m. journalistic principles and practices class, the students there were talking, I believe, two days ago about Alabama one student said, well, that's where George Wallace said, segregation now, segregation forever. And I said, you are a journalism student. And so one of the things that we most have to do before we do anything else, we most have to be concerned about accuracy and in the interest of accuracy. The speech you're speaking of was not given here at the University of Alabama. That the speech you're speaking of was actually the inaugural address of Governor George Wallace. And our operations take place in Montgomery. But in fact, the governor stood in the schoolhouse door, but his speech, his presentation, his confrontation with the federal government yielded very different words. And what I want you to do is to be precise in understanding not only what was said, who was said, but where it was said. As students at the University of Alabama, we must be armed with the utmost level of accuracy in telling the story of our state. And that is part of Alabama history. So as we do the assignment, we'll talk about the speech in Montgomery at the time of the inauguration. We can even show a map that shows Montgomery and that shows Tuscaloosa. And when you type in, when you click on those, out pops a picture of the governor and a quote from what the governor had to say. That kind of learning that we want to encourage. One of the things that we also want to recognize is this is really, really important, not only for Alabama, but for our country when it comes to telling all of our country's history. Some people have argued that it's best to leave things in the past, especially things that might make us uncomfortable. And what I happen to believe is in your revelation about what you didn't know about the past, you can have a better understanding of the present. And that some topics will be uncomfortable, but the way we develop our level of comfort is in our confidence in understanding what factually happened and what didn't happen. And so as that political debate continues, if our students can get into this archive and hear the real stories like we heard today, hear the discussion about the Crimson Tide and the same answer as someone talking about the Ku Klux Klan, hear from a relative who was a four or five-year-old child who has been educated about what happened in 1963 and can talk about it today, hear it in her own words, the learning opportunities are enormous. Yeah, and your student's ability to visualize those through these tools is really going to underline that idea of accuracy and contextualization in a way that perhaps just saying it out loud perhaps doesn't, because when we see points on a map or we see points on a timeline, we are able to incorporate that into our understanding and our knowledge and be able to assimilate that and differentiate those events much differently than if we were just reading through a narrative. And I think that that is one of the amazing beauties of your students being able to communicate out these stories that they're listening to and reading through these oral history interviews. They're able to process them in a way that is a lot more impactful for their audience, right? Absolutely. So, George, this has been so much fun talking to you about this. I enjoyed it as well. Yeah. One of the things we're trying to do as Pedagogy Innovation Fellows is get the word out about history makers, because many of our campuses haven't had the archive very long and we just want every opportunity we can to share the archive, but also to communicate to our colleagues across campus that you can make this work in your class. It doesn't have to be a media class. It doesn't have to be a history class, but there are other ways to use it in a reporting class where I'm teaching students how to gather information, how to interview. I'm having to use the archive to watch the history makers' interviews as the interviewers are asking the questions. Yes, I just thought it was so nice as a model. It's a really nice model. Well, you and I have discussed the potential of the University Libraries and the Alabama Digital Humanities Center supporting some sort of professional development opportunity here on campus. Absolutely. The history makers to campus for our colleagues to be able to get more experience with them. And I'm really hoping to be able to make that happen as well. Absolutely. All right. I think we need to go ahead and wrap up, but this has been such a lovely conversation and I appreciate you so much. And I'm looking forward to meeting your students next week for our first class visit that I'm having. And I really thank you for your generosity of time and spending the time talking to me today and for the opportunity to work with you with this class. Thank you for supporting us. We so value our partnership with the University Libraries. Over the years, I have always had positive experiences when I connect a library faculty member with the work that I'm doing and we fight for hall and communication. And that's where the magic happens. When we get together and the students learn, hey, there's more to what we do than just what happens in journalism or communication. We can use the resources of our libraries. It takes it to a whole other level. So that's the beauty of this. And I'm looking forward to what the students are gonna produce this semester. Yeah. Well, thank you so much to everyone who has joined us live or is watching this sometime soon before next month. I believe that next month, our October guest is going to be Rebecca Salser and she's going to be talking about the Dancing Digital Archive project that she's working on. So I'm looking forward to that. And George, we will be processing this video and getting it up on our website as soon as we can manage that. The thing that takes a little tiny bit of time is that we should take the transcript and turn it into captions. But I believe that we've been spending some time working on that workflow to make sure that we meet all of the accessibility needs of our viewers. So we will get that done and get this up. I will email you a link as soon as it's up. I'm hoping it'll be up in the next week or so. So thank you so much. And you have a wonderful rest of your day.