 So good evening everyone. It's one minute after five and I will call the Select Board meeting to order. We have one guest. Would you introduce yourself, please? Yeah, thank you Approving minutes of the June 6 2023 regular select board meeting. Do you want us to wait a couple of minutes? Yes, okay. Thank you. Is there a motion on the minutes? Randy? Yes, thank you. Okay all in favor of the motion, please say aye. Any opposed? The motion passes unanimously reviewing amending and approving the agenda for the June 20th 2023 select board meeting. Actions likely I move that we, well, I don't know unless somebody's got something you want to put in. I'll make the motion to accept the agenda for today, June 20th. I just need to make an amendment. I just want to add a discussion about scheduling the first meeting of July. Okay and you'll accept that Vic has an amendment here. I accept the amendment to discuss the first meeting of July. Perfect. Is there a second? Yeah. Randy, thank you. All those in favor of the motion, which is to accept the agenda for tonight's meeting with one addition by Sarah. Please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay Everybody's favorite topic final revisions of the town personal policy action likely So we are Sarah help me out where we end up. We left off at section 29 over time. Yeah, so we're on section 30. Well, we didn't resolve anything in section 29. I'd like to pass over that or move over that and come back to it when Eric's here. Eric's got a little presentation and as you remember Randy was going to explain to him something that he was curious about. Yeah. And I spoke to Eric less than an hour ago and he said he'd be here. So maybe we can just go circle back to that when he gets here. I like that Jen. Jen Sarkin will circle back. Circle back? Yeah, I like her too. I do. I like that red hair. No comment. I didn't say anything on tour. No, I didn't say anything. So we got the next one employment discrimination that I felt I didn't either Or there's some new words and new classes of discrimination that we need to add that they guess my only question But I think when we say Against a qualified individual, you know, I mean it was kind of a blanket thing at the end I'm fine with it. Anybody else have anything? Okay No, don't need one. We're moving on. Okay Sexual harassment Or what I used to call harassment It was up to me. I'd cut some of that stuff out, but I guess we need to have it all in there. That's the recommended Policy There he is. Hi Eric. Eric, we passed over overtime Okay, waiting for you to get here. So we're down to sexual harassment right now Everybody's favorite subject. Absolutely What's your pleasure board members? I mean, I don't see anything that jumps out at me that Needs to be revised. I think we've got plenty in there. That's what I said You good Victor Okay severability That's pretty standard legal line, which I see in most contracts. I think that's fine Is there anything we need to change in the personal acknowledgement, I don't think so So with that or We have we have them sign this on an annual basis Represented to them or just on Employment we've had them we've had them sign it. I believe when we've amended it and I would remind everybody that we need to figure out what Procedure is going to be or we're going to have a special meeting to present this to the road crew How are we going to do it? Are we going to go over there? Are we going to have a meeting here with them? Are we going to do it during regular business hours? Are we going to ask them to come in the evening all those questions and I guess Eric, what do you think about that? I mean, what's the best way to do that? I Just don't want to be the only man standing down there at 5 30 in the morning Okay, I do like that. I mean I Either that or I don't I wouldn't mind adjusting To capture them at the end of their day. I think asking them here after after hours, you know, you're essentially You know Requesting their presence outside of the normal working hours and and for me, you know I feel like just meeting with them at the end of the day for an hour would be a better situation so That if they did have questions, they could feel that you get a response right other thing the other thing I Have been thinking about and having been the lucky person to do this the last two or three times We've had to do it Steve was with me one time and other than that. I did it by myself What I would recommend is We get them copies of it Eric presents it Sarah can we We can produce a copy which shows the changes redlined or whatever the right word is right more or less No, I mean I can what I did was I the copies that you have there are highlighted I can go back and put in the original wording I have to tell you that that document by now is a mess of track changes. It's just horrible So I was trying to simplify it by just simply highlighting The information that you guys change. It's not that much. That's fine All I want to say to them is what it said here were the changes You don't need to focus on every sense of this document You can certainly read it over at your leisure and get back to us and give any questions But in the copies that you have there and hide that I didn't print them in color But if I did everything that is highlighted is the changes that you've made Okay, I think that's fine And as for Cheryl who is also an employee here, I think director and I can just give her a copy So she I don't think she has any interest in coming to me. Okay. Well I'd be happy to meet with her if she has any concerns or questions or any of them for that For that matter But yeah, that sounds that sounds good to me or I think that can work Great, I Don't see At least in this copy Sarah. I just see the only highlighted section That's stated is just the overtime where we've picked up. No, that's actually what that was in blue Maybe but I can print it out for you in color and then you can see yeah I may maybe I just skipped over it Oh You guys can go back to section 29. So are you not now going back a circle back to the overtime? Yes, so I'll start out the discussion by saying since our last meeting. I've given this a lot of thought and Sarah gave me an overview and she can give us an overview of what she found out that other towns are doing which is basically all over the map I'm ordering on the illegal. I would tell you In the way that he Administered their payroll. No surprise there. I think what I think what we need to do is what's fair and right for our town and our road crew and not necessarily follow what somebody else is doing and The other thing having thought a lot about it Randy in particular and thought about the potential extra cost of allowing people to Have their sick time and or vacations time count towards their overtime I guess what I've come down to think is if there's somebody who's abusing that and taking advantage of it like saying I want to take every Friday off during the summer and We need them to be working because we need to get the job done. That's the responsibility of her road for them to manage that And yes, there is the possibility of a small on budgeted expense in a way Except the way we budget our overtime is always a crapshoot anyway. Just we just You know budget what we think is the right amount based on our past experience and sometimes it's enough and sometimes it isn't quite enough So yes, I suppose you could say by somebody doing that We might be paying out a few hours of overtime that we otherwise wouldn't pay Which I think is true. We might be But if this is more and more the standard practice and also if it's recommended to us by Eric Who's the one who's gonna have to administer it? I'm in support of making that change, but I don't know how everybody else feels and I'm sorry I was shopping papers exactly. What was the change? Sure, just well the the the change is that now I correct me if I'm wrong Eric and right now Sick time and PTO does not count towards the calculation of overtime So if you take two hours on a Tuesday to go to a doctor's appointment, and then by Sunday You've worked 44 hours including those two sick hours that you were paid for you get paid overtime for those hours Whereas now in our policy you would not get paid overtime for those two hours So that I think in a nutshell is the difference and I can understand why People who are subject to overtime and paid overtime would think It was unfair that they weren't allowed to use The time that they were entitled to which they obviously are entitled to use But that it wouldn't count towards the overtime and if I think we're making a little bit of a change in favor of the road crew so be it that's not a bad thing I don't think and It's up to up to Eric and Victor and all of us if need be to manage that and if it's being abused we can change it So the proposal as presented Doesn't just cover those hours It instantly pays overtime for anything worked outside of Normal business hours, so if they were 40 hours no the proposal was anything outside I said as long as you cover your 40 hours With either physically working holiday Vacation day simply a personal all all those days are paid out at your normal And they're all budgeted All those days are all budgeted so the And if you don't have vacation time or personal time or sick time well then your SOF Sure the policy as presented would immediately pay out over time for Any hours on the weekend any hours if the workday was From 7 to 3 would instantly pay out if they came in at 6 o'clock in the morning or if they worked till 4 o'clock in the afternoon So that's not just the if they left for a two-hour doctor's appointment The proposal has put forward Instantly pays overtime for any of those other hours that are worked outside or whatever that's the whatever the Policy or whatever the the business hours established for the road through there now So for me, but they still but they still have to work the 40 hours though No, because they could use their sick time if they fill in for those 40 hours, right? I'm saying that's but I'm saying that's legitimate time What what I don't want to have happened is if somebody comes in two hours early in the morning for whatever reason and Works a 10-hour day when the normal workday is eight hours. I don't want to pay overtime for those two hours And that's what I thought the original proposal was the day by day if you're scheduled eight hour a day and you work 10 because a tree down or whatever But if you're working a Scheduled eight hour a day and nothing happens and you can go home on normal time You don't make up Right So for me, so I and I apologize. I wasn't able to get back to you This last Period of time. I didn't want to bother you over the weekend. My week was extremely busy I did work up some scenarios and I took a two-week Payroll cycle and I ran numbers based on the current policy as it says. Yeah, I used Eric's pay vacation the whole my house and For me it comes down to the fact that it's unbudgeted and If there's a if there's a change here, just let me finish it if there's a change here then the way we manage and Budget for that those expenditures needs to change as well because the reality for me is, you know So for Eric, let's just say There's he pulled we budgeted 225 hours of overtime. He was 260. Yeah So I don't feel like those budgeted hours are You know off base If you moved just a third of Their personal time potentially into that category you're paying overtime for that. It's almost a six thousand dollar Difference for that one person and that's not going back and saying Every weekend hour that they work is automatically over time it's we had to make some general assumptions and and Said okay. Well if they worked through the winter time and they used a third of their vacation time or holiday time or No holiday as I left alone. So assuming no holidays change whatsoever and they didn't work on any holiday But they're sick time if they get earned, you know, 48 hours. There was a day of sick time that they used 25% there so roughly a third of their time. That's a six thousand dollar unbudgeted hit and For me, that's what that's what it comes down to except help me out I get what you're saying, but if if the problem is that people are using sick time when they shouldn't use sick time That's an industry problem but number two we When we do the budget every year, we assume that a certain amount of sick time is going to be used Sure, we don't assume it's all going to be used because generally it isn't this is all We put in some kind of plug. No, it's just shifting It's just shifting a portion of those into overtime rates instead of straight time rates Yeah, but I think you think I'll recognize I think you're thinking about a run because you're not shifting that time into overtime rates Yeah, Eric, go ahead Once you use a vacation day or a sick day, it's gone Sure, and you do a crew more, but you don't crew based on how it's worked So take your annual your annual Yep, and some of that gets pushed into overtime instead of instead of straight time because you're getting paid out at your normal rate of pay You're not yet. Those those those overtime hours wouldn't be considered overtime hours under the current policy But so that the amount of hours your overtime hours are the Saturday you were Not the day you took off a vacation day. That's paid out at normal rate of pay The amount of hours that are paid up overtime rates changes during this policy, correct I don't see how it would because you you you budget for 225 hour perfect example I've got 216 hours of overtime Okay, I didn't take any vacation during those those weeks that I had that was a overtime If I were to take any vacation during those weeks those overtime hours wouldn't have changed They would go up. How do they go well because those hours increase my overtime those hours that you use to fill your rate hour day Would shift from if say work to Saturday and you took that time off during the week Those eight hours on the weekend then become overtime hours, of course, but that's not my vacation day So so where where does the monetary difference come from? Your vacation is paid out at your normal rate of pay not overtime pay The Your actual physical work overtime hours don't Your physical work hours would go into calculation for overtime does change Therefore, that's where the monetary difference that you're looking for is paid out at your normal rate of pay Which is your normal rate of physically worked hours the number also you use that up So you cannot use that up later in the year It's gone the sheer number of hours in that overtime calculation change So there is a monetary difference to the town Therefore the extra money in your paycheck that you're fighting for if there's no change in how it's paid Then where does the monetary Difference come from the monetary difference comes from it allows them to get their overtime While still using some of their vacation time and they don't get screwed out of going into a doctor's appointment and losing four hours of overtime Correct, that's exactly my point that they the monetary Difference comes from the shift right so in other words what you're saying so where you would normally get Let me finish okay where you would normally get paid Straight time for those hours work. You're now getting paid overtime hours, and that's the monetary difference Right because you don't want to pay overtime That's nothing to do with pain Well, that's what it is because you're hoping that someone takes a day off So they lose their overtime so they got to be paid straight time for Saturday or Sunday for me personally It has to do with the fact that it's not budgeted If this if the town residents passed something that says we're happy if you guys work 500 hours of overtime in the works there Then then buy out all your pay out all your stuff on overtime rate. I don't really care That has to do with the unbudgeted piece of this for me, and and all these hours are budgeted How can you say that it's not budgeted? He's got 216 hours That is nine hours less than we budgeted He's got so many days of sick leave we pay it straight time if he takes that time off That's still budgeted The calculation for overtime changes and the monetary value of what's paid out changes. That's what's unbudgeted So in it, I'm not sure if I understand So you basically ran some scenarios, and you just looked at the straight numbers and you saw the fact that With what we currently have Versus with this change So you're just looking at the numbers you're not I mean you ran some scenarios, and you're just looking at the numbers So if we combine what you're saying with what Eric saying with what Peter saying If what if we approved it and watch to see the dollars And then we came back and changed it because what I hear Peter saying is that we're giving a little and We see that this is a this couldn't maybe not a worst-case scenario situation, but it's a it's a scenario a possible scenario or that May or may not happen So I would I would say let's roll with the changes and see if That happens and then we can go back and Maybe if we are way over budget when we go back we can carry over the allotment over, you know We can spread it out a little bit That so I'm not I'm not following the last piece of what well So we can't change this year's budget So say we pass this change and over the next six months We see that we have overextended ourselves with overtime because of this change then We can decide as a group is that palatable will we maybe for next year's budget we Pass that shortfall plus what we anticipate for the following year. Are we going to roll it back and go back to? You know square one I'm just trying to see if there's a compromise because I don't really see anybody changing their mind and And and I think that Peter's position at the outset that We're given a little bit and that's not a bad thing and if it becomes a bad thing then we can revisit So I think there's another piece of this that maybe I'm misunderstanding Peter stance versus what was proposed. Okay. Don't it's If we move forward with any kind of change, I think we need to be crystal clear on What your mind was that coming into this and not the actual proposal is because my understanding correct me if I'm wrong my understanding is that You set hours from seven o'clock to three o'clock for The five days of the week Anything worked out of those hours whether you work eight hours in that day or You could come in for two hours and if they're outside of those those hours Then those then those times get paid as overtime. Am I correct there? Sort of Your your initial eight hour your window was just we use a number 73 That has to be covered with Time With actual time well PTO. It doesn't have to be work time. Let's say actual time actual time That's paid out your normal rate of pay okay that window if you work over because of Whatever on a Saturday or Sunday or even that day, let's just say you had a doctor's appointment in the morning or whatever You know then yes, but you've got to cover your eight hours. You still have to cover your 40 hours You can't get old you can't get overtime if you're not covering your 40 hours Normal rate of pay what I am not proposing. I don't leave Eric is proposing We had a discussion early on in this discussion whether we were going to do an overtime calculation pay-by-day So if you put in an extra hour on the Thursday, you've got an Hours overtime So my understanding was that was exactly what this proposal Well, if you're covered if you're covered your 40 week 40 hours for the week You don't get any overtime till you have to cover your 40 hours. No double dipping Correct. Yeah, you still have to cover your 40 hours, right? Her week per week, right? So it comes down to a management Correct issue then and whether or not somebody says hey, I've got a doctor's appointment I will still want to work those hours. Can I work after the work hours are done? Well, I mean if we're not if we are as a group not having to work after hours because of whatever Then well, then you're not making your time up Now if we have a snowstorm And we're plowing winter times a little great or or or let's just say a trees knock down After hours or whatever, you know You still have to cover your 40 hours You can't do it without covering your 40 hours. You're still gonna have 40 hours The difference is that we count paid time off and sick time as normal regular hours, which we don't do now So here's a question If I took two hours off for a doctor's appointment, and I filled those two hours in Is it They're just using time allowable to the head at eight hour mark during that day I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. You're not gonna allow He's saying let's let's say Randy Randy comes to you Randy is your best greater operator Which I'm sure he would be yeah, and he comes to you and says I've got a doctor's appointment I can't come in until ten o'clock in the morning or nine o'clock in the morning Whatever the time is gonna take two hours off But I'll stay we'll see two hours a different scenario and I would say that's fine You can say two hours, but you don't need to take your time off in the morning That's the difference. You don't need to make up over time hours So there are plenty of overtime hours out there. You do not need to make any up I don't want any more than I have to but I'm gonna take every bit that I have because I have to be there I'm not gonna make stuff up to work. Trust me. I'd rather be home That's the big difference. Well, then that's that's what that policy comes down to is if you do move forward with this It comes down to a management issue, correct And what's gonna be allowable and what's not gonna be allowable? Well, yeah I mean you're not gonna you're not gonna say well. I'm using two hours to go to my doctor's appointment And then stay two hours I mean that just doesn't make sense to me You'd be surprised it will see out there to me when you give somebody a little bit You'd be surprised at what they try to say and that's where it comes down to managing the people managing the situation Yes Vacation we keep talking about these doctor's appointments our vacation time Preplanned or wonder if somebody wanted to fill in those two hours with vacation time vacation time Because if you're gonna start talking about putting in these hours willy-nilly whether it's vacation time I'm sick time then it better be called something different than vacation time and sick time Usually usually I try to do it within reason. I mean we got to be we got to make sure the stuff stuff and And I haven't had an issue yet But if there becomes an issue of you know people say well, I need to take the day off last minute usually I go ahead of time Usually I'm told hey next Thursday. I got this going on. Okay. Yeah, that's fine You know, we can plan around it. I haven't run into an issue where it's last minute going I just think I just haven't run into that because it's something they've been really good about that Well in the way that ties back into my conversation or my comments in the last meeting where you know, how that time is used and You know sick time really is different than personal time and it's really different than vacation time You know personal time, you know, and it's for personal use. It's something comes up unplanned. Hey, sorry, but I know you don't have any notice, but I gotta use some personal time Vacation time in a lot of places you got to have it approved two weeks ahead of time I don't want to get to that point. No, I just work it out with it So far it's worked. I mean we've been able to manage it and it hasn't been an issue if it becomes an issue Well, then there's there's a different approach about it But it hasn't been it hasn't been an issue since Eric's been here But at one point people during the summer when it was 10-hour days They were working eight and on vacation or sick every for two hours every day Yeah, that's the kind of stuff we want. Well Peter. Yeah, that's that's That's true. What do we do is saying is true, but I think as a board and as a treasurer We've hired Eric. We've trusted him. We should let him do his job And stay out Let him decide that if we don't like the way things are going we can then it's my butt on the line Because I think you're causing a lot of dissension Well who I am yes, why well comments like you said last week about the fire room If somebody refuses to do their job Victor, I'm sorry But I I have very little tolerance for that and as an employer if somebody refuses fight out refuses continually to Somebody in a face. They should be fine You know how good it is to get help You know you guys you two guys constantly constantly What you guys you and I have never That is mine are trust my comment. It's not just him clarity I just had a quick question. So going back to page 11 these are the changes In what in what Sarah passed out that no, that's not the changes we've done So have this is has the proposed language been put before no the group Oh, so we'll have to come back to this anyway to actually vote on it Well, depending on what it takes to implement that language, but I would suggest we need to be careful how we So I'm going to suggest that we don't vote on it tonight plus I'd like Liz to be part of the process as well Okay. All right, so that So I would so are you do you need a motion to pass everything other than the overtime section? No, let's wait. Okay. Unless anybody disagrees Sorry doing that. Okay. I'd like to go back to the statement that picked in me I have to add this I asked for clarity purposes Because it always comes down when we're running payroll how things are being interpreted and that I'm only asking these questions For clarity. I am not saying how you should be paying these healthy yours Or is it done? I'm trying to bring up facts of things that have happened and I want clarity before we move forward I Think I take exception to the fact that you're you're saying that I'm attacking these guys and creating dissension here I'm sorry if I have a differing opinion than you do Victor, and I think it's not me It's not I think people should be helped But at the end of the day when we look at these payroll charts, and it's in the policy to Calculate this in a certain manner. We need to be held to that standard. There's not a person in this room and there's some That not in a meeting have brought this up, but I am the only one that dares to say anything That you guys got to step back and take it you know Take a step. What holding people accountable to the policies and the methodologies at hand. No That's that's where this is you guys you guys are you guys are still in the last administration And you're making him pay for it And You have felt that way right there there are times it feels like I'm trying to be micromanaged That's right, and that's a reason I told what to what level I'd like to know other than other than I will Other than holding people accountable to the methodologies and the policies at hand. I would like to understand Exactly how you feel like you're being micromanaged. Well, I'll tell you this for a fact last last time We're here. There was two things that really upset me that you said Okay, one was the fact that over time is a privilege not a right That hit kind of hard number two Fire people I understand what you're saying. I get it a hundred percent the problem We run into is that when you have a situation that we do where we have CDL drivers Even if they're not but if we do and you call them in and they say I can't come in I've been drinking you can't do a dang thing about it That's a different situation That's a different situation than the situation that was put forward that warranted my comments from Victor Well, that has nothing to do with the scenario that was put at hand to cause me to say that fair enough I'm just telling you it hurt a little bit. I Think I think that that everybody that's that's an employee is held to a standard And if they flat out refused which was the situation that was put at hand in the last meeting Continuously refused to do their job not because they were drinking and they were called in in the unexpected time Because that's a totally different situation than yes, I think those people should be held accountable, right? Okay, I just wanted to say that we can't micro manage Feelings I mean what I'm here at Eric say is that during conversations? He's had a feeling that he's being micromanaged, so we can't actually ask him to You know point out a to be what what brought that feeling about I think all we can do is hear him and try to as Victor said Be more aware. I don't think he's asking that I don't think that Again, I think that we just need to hear him say what his feelings are So all I'm gonna say guys and I've said this before is we need to listen to each other We need to be respectful of each other and we need to be polite to each other And that isn't to say people including me don't get upset from time to time that can happen But you know, I believe everybody sitting around this table everybody in this room is here Trying to do their best for the best interest of the town of middle sex and as long as we keep that in mind We can't get too much trouble and the last thing I'll say on the subject tonight is We need to put this behind us we've made some meaningful changes to this policy we need to implement them and if we go ahead with this change to the overtime and if it turns out to be As bad as you project Randy There are basically two things that have to go on number one if we're going to continue that policy we definitely have to budget for the amount of money that we expected to be and Number two If it truly isn't going to work and it's unsustainable we need to change it and I and I would be the first one and I would recommend that Eric when he presents this to the road proof Let's him know that I mean I always told them, you know, these are the changes This is the policy for now, but if things aren't working or there's a problem that this policy doesn't address We're going to change it In all fairness to Eric Eric and I have talked about this a lot discuss this a lot And Eric said and correct me if I'm wrong that it's basically what Bridget said, let's try it And if it doesn't work, I actually said that let's just try it for a year Right I think I think that I have a true strong feeling that we can manage this and have it not cast the town anymore I truly believe that Guys might I propose Having sorry to interrupt might I propose having the the treasurer run these numbers in in some scenarios based on our overtime hours You know, we can look back in payroll To see weekends an average weekend time if we're talking a 40 hour week You know a guy can be on vacation essentially for 40 hours Get called in and make overtime where before he would basically not be able to accrue overtime He would just have less of a deduction of of his accrued hours But it would seem to me rather than taking the the approach of well, let's let's give it a try It seems In not in the best interest Of of the taxpayers to roll the dice on it without really knowing exactly I I think we could get a pretty good judge on it Hypothetically through dorinda and looking back at some payroll numbers and I apologize dorinda And it takes some footwork, but would that not be a Better way of looking at this before we decided to just say hey, let's give it a try rather than Doing an honest job with the treasurer who takes care of payroll and and things like that beforehand So paul my only concern about that is it's all based like the projection that randy did You know, you got to put a number saying okay, how many days of extra overtime are they're going to be and That's a crapshoot So You know, we just we always every year when we do the budget We put in what we believe is a reasonable amount of overtime and just a little bit of extra so I I have a suspicion that we will probably not Overspend our budget, but we might in that category but You know, I think until we try it And let eric administer it and see how it goes. We're not going to get a real taste of what it's going to be I Mean we can run projections we can run projections whether randy does them or dorinda does them or I do them or Whoever does them we can run projections that show all kinds of things based on the assumptions we make And randy, I know you made those assumptions in good faith. I'm not I'm not saying you didn't I'm just saying Just going to be transparent about what the assumption is. That's right. Yeah, and I will add this as well it's just not It's not just salary that's that's changed either It's you know, what goes into vmers and their retirement account because that's based off of what we pay So as we pay out more overtime um Everything else goes up to Like I I mean like I said I will have probably the max amount of overtime because I always have I feel I always need to be there when things are going on Because that's the managerial role that there is unless for whatever if it's something smaller, whatever I get it But if we got a storm going on I'm around You know You got to make sure everybody gets back. You got to make sure everything is good. You know, that's my responsibility um, so I can tell you that my numbers really won't change so, uh I think enough for tonight the question is do we want to Approve this policy with the exception of the overtime or do we want to wait? Uh for the next meeting. We don't want to we don't want to accept your You know the proposal or well, we have to see the actual language. Yeah This isn't the actual language deck. That was one of my questions. Yeah We got to get the real language. So Eric's Eric's proposal has to be inserted and then we can approve that Okay, that makes sense. Yeah I'll take a stab at what you said put it into the put it into the overtime section and then circulate The entire revised policy you guys can see if it's right. You can even contact me over the week And then you can vote on it the the next meeting. How about that? At least you'll have words Right. I'd love it if we went ahead and passed everything else and then we can Think about them. Would you like to make that motion? I would love to make that motion. You didn't want to wait for Liz Yeah, I was like if you wanted to wait for Liz It's it screws up my reporting if you say part of it was recorded on the day the harvest was passed on another day I need one day where it was passed. All right. All right. I I'm sorry. That's that's fine. Thank you. That's fine. Okay. Thank you everyone So, uh, I'm going to suggest in deference to the to the highway department that we uh Listen to the volunteer fire department. They're here and we're behind a little bit on our agenda. So If you guys don't mind We'll hear from the fire department now Okay, uh, where'd you go? So yes, um First I'm going to do a shortened part not go over every single call Because we have some other stuff to discuss So we have eight calls this past period three mutual aids out one in Um, our max number responders eight men is three We jumped up to five and a quarter Average so that's a big jump Engine ones out five times engine six at one time tanker one out five times rescue one out one time for 14 We had three grass woodland fires One search and rescue which I'll go into a little bit further Medical manpower assists, um A vehicle roll over on the interstate tractor fire and a lightning strike The the tractor fire and lightning strike in more town And one of the woodland fires is in northfield So, um As far as other stuff we did hazmat training we finished washing off Wood Road and Norton Road All five vehicles are getting inspected this month as far as purchases We're getting four new rolls of two and a half inch We haven't gotten new two and a half inch in the 19 years. I've been on the department It's time to start getting new stuff And we're getting a fitting for engine six that allows us to go off the side and use the five inch Lot hard sleeve so we can get into shady rail easier and we're not having to lift as high as going off the back end Fast squad we had nine calls Um So the station issue what you may have heard about The the station was I'll say breached. There was no damage what It probably was is we have two personnel doors on either side of the building And the one on the as you're looking at it the one on the left side Almost never gets used So what conceivably could have happened is somebody went out that door and it didn't latch We apparently have been having some guests down in the in the area with tents so They must have gone around and checked the doors and found one that they could get in There's no damage in this station. The only thing they ruffled through was the back of the rescue through the medical kits which my My thought process is they were probably looking for drugs because it looks like an ambulance We don't carry drugs in there. The only drugs we have that are hidden away narcan and That's the only thing that we as basics are allowed to mention They did use apparently use the shower That didn't make a mess in there and they apparently slept on one of the beds upstairs Um, I went in yesterday morning at eight o'clock to take the tanker out to get inspected So I got the engine and then the rescue so I didn't see the back of the rescue being open So I don't know if they were had been in there prior to that Patty went down to four o'clock and saw the back of the rescue So that's how we knew we called vsp the trooper came down tried to take fingerprints and took our statements I'm he was going to put out a public release a news release in case somebody saw something I'm not over I'm not Really expecting anything to come from it other than we we've ordered outside cameras and we're going to look at doing inside cameras Because we never had that we've never had this issue before but obviously with people In the neighborhood that seems to be an issue we need to to deal with Plus we're going to make sure all the doors are shut before we leave each night are locked So that's that's that issue As far any questions on so there's no alarm down there, right? No alarm right cameras. There's never been a Never been an issue Now on to the search and rescue for the 24th of may Apparently the state police got called somewhere around 5 p.m. Between 5 p.m. 5 30 That joker card was missing We didn't get called out till 11 30 that night The station became the command center for the whole search and rescue event. We had the sp was running the show There were people from organizations were new england k9 search and rescue Also, of course What a very bad country rescue Richmond rescue We had Later the next day we had people coming in to Or just residents walking the roads and stuff. We did call Worcester over to bring two there Engines over so what we did with what bsp wanted us to do was to set up basically ringing South Bear Swamp East Bear Swamp and that area up there along Shea molly Trucks park lights on so that hopefully he would be attracted to that and come out We were out there from essentially midnight till about eight in the morning Manning all those vehicles We came back in Some of us then went out and drove like I went up east Bear Swamp going house to house Talking to people say look in your buildings. Keep your eyes out walk the roads And continued around north Bear Swamp and down I got done about noon Some other people came in a little bit later in the afternoon and it 409 we got a call that he'd been found New england k9 search and rescue found him Up off molly up pr2 back in the woods up in there. So he hadn't left that Area that we had been basically blocking off And apparently had been wandering logging roads and maybe I don't know the vast trails up in there. I think there's some vast up in there Spent the night out. It had rained they found him And he was transported to the hospital But considering the number oh, I forgot border patrol was there with their helicopter I'm not sure if they were the one flying during the nighttime, but they were that was dark Okay, so border patrol was flying during the day So there are a lot of organizations involved with this a lot of manpower involved in it the That I haven't talked to the vsp about it to see if our internet Met what they needed because we only have at best 15 mips down there because we're still on dsl. They haven't strung cable down there yet so that's something There's a potential we're going to need to And maybe get vsp on board to push to get cable put down there It seems odd that the consolidate is there and we can't get cable down there but I didn't hear any complaints that 15 mips was a problem, but if we get more computers and people Attacking that 15 mips. It's not going to cut it So there weren't a lot of image. There wasn't a lot of imaging going on. They were doing maps and printing those out Their comments from them that they I did get at the end of the day was Thanks for letting us be here And it went well So, um, that's the the fill in on that There's more I would just I would just add, you know the correct congratulations to all of you who were Involved in that process. I have never seen such a robust response to any situation in our town in all the years as there was I was I was impressed with the coordination Right and it was it was just spot on. It was amazing. It really was amazing to watch and a happy outcome. Yep. Yeah I was surprised, but it was a long day. Oh, I'm sure long two days. I'm sure well I think I think our department can be proud and our town can be proud of the Of the response and the coordination. They were impressed I was just wondering you said family has to carry any costs for the search and rescue I don't know. That's not that's vsp in that whole. Yeah, we don't know The answer is normally no This isn't like the extreme rescue up in Mount Mansfield for instance where they try and Collect if people ski out of bounds or whatever I mean, this is this is the first time I can I mean, we've had people who were missing for short periods of time But we haven't had anything like this. Yeah, all this years that I've been around So hopefully his family is paying attention and Keep getting on here. Yeah, it was just it was a a frequent events of why it how it happened Normally that he's checked on every day right and they missed a day because of family stuff that had come up and So it was just and having grown up there and actually his father having Lived out in the swamp And logs so much heat He could have been back in that time period and one thinking he was going to a logging site or something When you get somebody at that point, you don't know what's right. You don't know what's going on The only other thing I would say is I've known him for 45 years And if there's anybody who knows the backwoods of metal sex And and there was part of the problem and knows how to knows how to get along in the woods as well. So, yeah, so yeah, that's We we were very proud of Everybody in the department Now for the rescue So our our estimate was not a typo It really was 279,400 where the amount was 279,596 And he sent me some numbers for other vehicles and We don't want even want to go to that I mean for what would cost for just a tank of raw water not even what we have now The prices have just gone through the roof So but he did tell us that north high park has a rescue vehicle That they are going to be selling because they it's It's a larger truck And a lot of their younger folks don't like to drive it It's to me. It's not that big. It's smaller than engine one I mean height wise So they're getting a pickup truck With a a cab and a rollout bed So they're they're wanting to sell this It's 10 years old. So it would be the newest vehicle in our fleet They're hoping to get 145 for it. I might want to offer 135 and see where it goes It's a five person cab. It is a bigger vehicle than we originally Were planning for the the f450 So it gives us a bigger safety presence up on the interstate It already has a one blue light on the back Which we're now allowed to put a blue light on the back because when people see blue lights They respect that and they move over when they see red lights ask we're the fire department. I'll just keep on Like said has five person cab that can all did all four or three of them are air pack seats Which means you can put four of them The only one that isn't is the Um, and then it has a box in the back with roll-up sides The front compartment is goes all the way through The center compartments, it's 1 3rd 2 3rd. So on the 2 3rd side, it has a slide outright The back two side compartments are 1 3rd each and then the center Of the back is a roll-up and there's that's where they have their hydraulic tools And they have hose reels in there that are electric retract It's got um, it'll come with an electric reel that will keep the extension cord The hydraulic hoses won't come with it. It'll come with all of its lights and sirens They'll keep the radio, which is an in good does anyway because they're going to the freaks It has um four telescoping scene lights Which runs off a generator that's on the engine So it's like a super alternator So you flip the switch it idles up the engine turns on the generator and now you run the lights you can plug into it Um, it it is diesel. It's pre-deaf. So we don't have to deal with the def issue um def And um To me it's the size of it really gives us a much better protection footprint up on the interstate. There's the potential it could release a lot of Taking the engine up Because if we don't need water, we really don't need to enter one of the reasons the engine goes up is for Shielding because of the size and now we're even starting to take the tanker up to provide more protection for the scene downstream Just because 2 000 gallons of water is a sizable barrier But this This would give us a very good presence up there. It gives us opportunity room to expand As we know middle sex is not getting smaller So this will give us opportunity to expand rescue equipment and My personal feeling is I think it's a really good deal for a a vehicle that's not that old We're not going to find I was wanting to hold out for new when I saw the price of new is just like it's insane But I don't see us finding anything like this Available this is this is one of those things that happen. They come up kind of like engine six when that popped up for 30,000 this is I think a really good deal for the department And well, when is it when is it going to be available? It's going to be available as soon as they get their pickup truck, which they're hoping end of summer beginning beginning of fall If we get the go ahead with it, they're not advertising it right now waiting to hear the decision if we can go forward They also said if we want to bring you up there to anybody from the select board up there to see it And ride in it. They're more than happy to do that It's just Eric and I have gone up driven it Eric's Experience with trucks and whatnot is what I really wanted to have him Take a look at it. It's an international chassis Um It's in really nice shape The only thing that they've had to do that we get all the maintenance records and all the books with it The only thing they've had to do is it had gone in to get last april To get transmission fluid changed because it was nine years old And while it was there it got an engine light and they had to replace the wiring harness And that was the only thing that they had to do to it If we if we were to go to the new route we found one that was a little bit cheaper But still the new route we're looking at two years out To get to get and that's from when we make the order not from like well We think we're going to do we got to get the approval and the approval comes Two or three months down the road It's from when we actually get the approval sign the contract then you're looking at two years. It's just The way it is. So really what have we got in our capital plan now for that rescue 125,000 No, it's what we've won when they did the inventory. That's what he put as a potential that's what I that's That was pre-covid. Yeah Yeah, just It's just it's like when I when I talked to the e1 rep For this area. He says normally he has 10 to 12 Trucks in contract at a time now. He's got over 60 right now So it's just coming out of covet everybody's buying stuff And so the line to get stuff is ridiculously long and the prices have actually have just gone astronomical and We got the rescue was inspected and we're having to get new gas tank straps And you can't get oems anymore So they're having to go find them elsewhere. So that truck is getting to the point. It's unsupportable in maintenance stuff So we and with the fact that we would get this You know in three four months The tires are on it. We're good. It has on spot chains are on on it already So we wouldn't have to do anything to it other than take the radio out of the rescue That should still Be able to work so we wouldn't even have to to buy any radio for it And we actually have hydraulic tools in the way. Yes Which we're donated to us from Or members, yeah, I think I think that's you know That's a reasonable price and If you read if you read like in even in vermont digger this morning, there's many many towns looking for them like like Like he says it's just Scott rocking out price If you want to do anything I Think it might be a good time to do it Well, we'd have to figure out, you know, we have to figure out this this gets back to the old The old thorny issue of our arpa money that we need to spend at some point in time and what are we going to spend it on but You know, we also have made it our practice to borrow money when we when we purchase major pieces of equipment So we can borrow money and pay for it over five years. So my question to that is if we Borrow the money or even if we use ARPA funds Since it's over, I believe $10,000. Is that the amount? It's a capital thing. Do we need to have a vote on it? The way that works is you we can borrow for one year And without a vote, but if you try to finance it for more than that, you'll have to have it Yeah, but if you use ARPA money To pay for it then You could always borrow for a year and then go out a second year if you got Right, that's right. That's what I was going to say I mean, we can we can skin the cat on if we decide to go ahead. I just uh You know We've gotten a lot of bad news about this Rescue and here's the first situation that I consider to at least be reasonable and possible and uh Yeah, we're in So I just opened up the cip and it's a we had $140,000 as uh estimated replacement with $125,000 line in PY 25 so in 2025 As as the contribution could potentially that's when we were slinging, you know the major replacement So there might be some value to the existing truck maybe next to nothing I would guess Yeah, we put it up for sale and I don't I mean someone might want it for You know someone's work truck or something. I mean it has a big block Chevy and so somebody may want it for that But I just wanted to clarify that the replacement cost in the cip is 140 not 125 Yeah, thank you. And how much do we have? Nothing just started it right Yes So I wonder we need when do we need to get back to them? So they know we're meeting tonight and he wants to hear back if it's a You're gonna you discuss it next meeting and make a decision. I'll tell him that and he'll still not put it on the market But he's gonna want I mean they're They want to sell it by the time they get their truck So there's a lot of wiggle room if we come and say Yeah, we want it We've got to work out the finding stuff then basically it's ours and They won't sell it and they'll continue to use it until They get their truck But I just I I can't foresee us finding something of that quality And that gives us a safety margin up on the interstate that really is significant And I mean our numbers are continually going up for average response Um more people are taking pride in the department I think bringing a new rescue in just even increases that and becomes a potential recruiting point so, how do you You indicated that You'd like to buy it for 135. I I would we'd probably you know, I don't know If you said you wanted it you would be approving that 145 I just wanted to make that clear his his response to me Is I hope we can get 145 or we'd like to get 145 for it That says to me there's some negotiation price So you can't go wrong by offering 135 and saying what do you think that we do it for 135? And if it comes to 148 it's we've gone up they've come down and we're happy But my first offer would be 135 you can almost pay that much for a pickup truck today if you doll it up It's crazy. I'm telling you. Well, yeah, and that's That's what we're we're looking at and when I originally said that 125 that was We could have done it for one. I mean we got the tanker for for 117 um So but it's just gone absolutely berserk and the time delay is just insane. Well, here's here's what I would propose board members I would propose we get back to them have Jeff get back to them and say we are very interesting but We need a little time to think about this. We need a time to figure out how we're going to pay for it and We will consider it at our next board meeting which The date is still be determined. We're going to talk about that in a little while, but it'll be the first meeting in July Okay I don't want to I don't want to not get back to them Right if he all of a sudden says He all of a sudden says, you know, I've got somebody barking up my tree right now Which willing to pay me 145 then maybe we have to have a special meeting I don't know what we have to do. Liz will be back. Is she coming back today or tomorrow? Sarah, you know That's what I thought. It's Elizabeth here. Do you want me to give a number or just say we're really interested and we'll And at the next meeting after 4th of July Plant some seeds Doesn't hurt to plant a seed You know, can you do any better on the price with 135 get the get the deal done? You know, you're supporting Supporting the fire service in Vermont, etc. Etc. Spread it on a six spread it on a six you can What do you guys think? I'm sorry You know, if all of a sudden he says guys, I've really got to get 145 So if you're interested, it's going to be 145 then we know that At our next meeting I have to tell you that I'm a little worried about the borrowing situation. Maybe during this kind of under control But if it's five years or less You're we still need we still need a meeting. No, but you don't for one year. You sure But then you have to put it up for a vote if you want to either that or that's why we always kept doing one year loans and previously and then But we can do a one year loan without voter approval But I think we I think we really did our due diligence on finding this one. Yeah Yeah, it saves me from meeting with another salesman Well, thanks for all your work Tracing this down Anything else? Those are the two big things. Do you have any questions for the party? Keep up the good work. That's that's not a question. We're we're trying. We're doing our best. I know you are. Thank you Okay, highway department All right Thank you guys. Thanks guys Um, I don't know if you notice but uh, shady real was reclaimed the other day last week So the paving project is underway um I I had gotten a quote or asked him to look at the terror street that's fallen apart and They said that they would be willing to do that 400 foot section For the same unit number as they did. They are for shady real But with sections that From terror street to uh to uh west What I affectionately call the no man's land, right? Everyone will stop short of where it actually So I rub my rough numbers. It's roughly 140 ton So you're looking at right around just under $12,000. That's something you want to do. I can let them know if not That's fine, too But and who is them? Uh pike, okay The number I I measured it. It's 460 feet like 24 feet So you're looking at roughly around 140 They give timing and They wouldn't work it in. Uh, they'll do it the same time they do Shady And of course We have nothing in the budget for that Like I said, I just I said, hey, would you look at this while you're here? Yeah, is there any chance we're under spent now? Yeah, they could uh We could work some magic on timing with The transition between this year and next year Here and Victor if if I a quick question Um, I I've actually seen water coming out of the top of a couple of those telephone poles where water's coming down Guaranteel and and coming out of one of the service conduits at the At the top of the telephone poles So it's super wet there that we know how bad it is Peter You you likely know how terrible it is I'm a little I'd be a little bit apprehensive of just throwing pavement over that without trying to do at least a Little bit of of sub-base work. I'm definitely on board with capitalizing on them being here, but without Without trying to do a little bit of sub-base work there. I feel like we're throwing good money at that bad Um, just because of how wet and and how bad it is over there I don't know if Vic and Eric would Would echo that same thought or or roll the dice on that The house there, I believe and Eric tells me out Yeah, they did some reconfiguring of their driveway and divert the water down into a column It used to come right down the driveway and just pour across the road No, we now I can I can clarify this, but she said that she would do everything for the same unit price And which was also a little reclaiming Well reclaiming is this is a dollar so five a square yard. So we're not fucking You know big money and they're still at the shop. So it's just a matter of them moving it over to through there Which is an option I think what Paul was saying, I think maybe uh I think correct me if you're wrong if you're still there, Paul We might not want to put some of your grain in there I'll talk about him Yeah Exactly back and and and more just you know, I I think it's a great opportunity to capitalize on You know on on what I would consider savings and mobilization costs and and the cost of pavement going up I think it's a good idea if we if we could justify a little bit of time to Either put some under drainage and even you know A layer of road fabric and and maybe a six inch lift of of some nice inch and a half gravel or you know, something states back Um, I feel like it it would be worth our a little bit of time An additional money to capitalize and really try and stretch out that pavement just just because I see how how bad it is There and I haven't been over there to see that things have been changed And I'm just looking at the the amount of groundwater that that's coming down that hill Like I said, I've I've literally seen water coming out of the top of a telephone pole Conduit like a fountain. So there there's a significant amount of ground water coming down there Um, so just more of like a long-term perspective. I think it'd be worth looking at So here we go again guys use of ARPA funds I don't know. It's an it's an unbudgeted item We have to find the money we have to find the money somewhere if we're going to do it It does seem like a good opportunity I would say again if it was up to me, I'd rip that all up and put it back to gravel Well, that's the other option. I mean you can uh I mentioned that the other day when we're driving through there is you don't have to pave it as far as it is I mean you would do from the bad spot in the dip You just have gravel farther down It's not an ideal choice, but it is a possible Wasn't that what happened from portal down to there? Wasn't that all paved at one point and they ripped it out From from just past portal down. Yes, it was paved out past portal, right? Right It's just unbelievably now Unbelievable and you know, we've ignored that for a long time Hopefully thinking that Montpelier would take care of it But our strategy didn't work, but they don't own it Well, that's always subject to dispute but anyway I I tried to tell them they owned it at one time. I didn't get very far. No, we went out and looked at it with Dan Perry So, I mean, I guess the question is, you know as a board, how do we feel about this? What do we want to do? Yes, perfect. So this is this this is the spot just down from Lindsay's house. Yes. Yes Uh, I think it's really dangerous because everybody coming down the hill swoops left Right, it's a blind corner So I was just wondering Um, even though to tell you the truth if you go if you stay right It's not that bad. You just slow down Except in the winter when it's all a sheave glare ice. Yeah, this is true But right now, but I think that, um Go into the question of turning it back to gravel What is the annual cost there projected out versus Having it putting out the money to have it paved now and then continue to maintain Like the last time we had that conversation. Victor said it's cost more over the lifetime to do gravel to do gravel than it does for pavement Okay, I remember correct there Like to do to do the problem. That's correct. Yeah, but we also Probably will have to put some gravel in there and do some under drain or do some work I mean, we're certainly going to look at that right. We got to look at it Whatever we do if we're going to do it and consider it. Let's do it right. So we do a good job Yeah, I mean for the amount of money that we're talking if it truly is that 12 Well, 415 thousand dollars You know, it's uh, you start out again You know, if you if you crew has the time and you know, we've it sounds like we've got some gravel kicking around That we could potentially You know use in that location. I mean I would support whether It has to come from arpa or you know, if we We haven't had an underspend this year or something like that Finding a way to make this happen We might might be able you're only talking two weeks. We could be in the next Right, and then we got $80,000 It's not a class two for section of the That would be I was looking at the aot map it appears. I believe it is Well, let's take it under let's take it under advisement. I mean, I guess we've got some expensive decisions to make at our next Board meeting. We guess what we just happened to be setting the tax rate. So it's An appropriate time to consider such things I mean, it just seems like I know that's the way I feel it's just one thing after another it's a rescue truck here a little bit of pavement there and You know pretty soon you've spent $300,000 pretty quick It's an appropriate time to get another uh expenditure possibility. Yeah, but we may have the money Your favorite your favorite topic peter. Uh-oh and what topic is that my king across this 20-time trailer for $2,500 That's $2,500 20 ton trailer Person to person Something that uh, I looked at it to kind of work. No, I looked at it. It appears to be holding air and all eight tires trends don't look bad It still appears to be broken. I don't know how the wiring is The frame is solid The deckboards are all there and not falling apart It has not been registered since 19 2019 yeah, but from what I could see without Crawling way under it Anything I can see by getting down on the ground. I it's all solid. Well, what it I mean, we would we would pay for that just Through the summer with the movements that you've Currently paying somebody else. That's what I was going to say by the time we by the time we pay johnny You know for eight or ten moves a year. We pay for the thing and Be more than paid for it actually Absolutely, I mean it's a for me. It seems like a no-brainer but we and we need to do anything to use it with our trucks There's the stuff all there just to hook up the air brakes and yeah, we have glad hands on one of our trucks in a middle hitch and also We have we looked at it you you you and I looked at it this morning and We're probably if we have to repair it. We have money and Yes, the Equipment repair Do you have uh That's just all inclusive like what we pay for moving and all that it's just you know, there's not a separate line item for Any of that in the in the budget, right? So it's just grouped in with everything. I mean, yeah It seems like a no-brainer Guys, I like johnny a lot but since we've owned our excavator. We bought a brand new trailer two times over So go buy that trailer So the only just a minute project The only question I had is The knock I always hear about trailers is they sit around and it's my observation too is they sit around most of the time, of course And they rust like a son of a bitch Well, true, but you don't use them in the wintertime. So you don't get the road salt on them So this one hasn't but I mean it's so my question is is there's something anything within reason I don't want the guys Crawling around with bar and chain while every week, but I mean is there just is there something we can do to Pressure and get as much of it a fluid filament the best you can and then just keep after it once a year Yeah I'm supportive of that somebody want to make a motion spend a little money tonight I was just gonna ask you this kind of an important question I just know that when you're dealing with that much weight and that much, um, like there's, um More restrictions for who drives at that Yes, we have to have a class ac and that was just when we do we have we have that Okay, we have multiple drivers that have that. Okay, they're quoting me go team Make a motion that we approve the purchase of the 20 ton trailer for the $2,500 As stated and recommended by road commissioner and Road foreman there was second Oh that bridge Get get Bridget's name in those in those minutes Okay, it's been moved and seconded to uh approve the purchase of a 20 ton trailer for $2,500 all in favor And we don't have to talk about the trailer for a few years. Guess what I think I've spent all your money tonight. We're good I don't have any more The only thing that we're working on also Eric is the the sign over in Putnam'sville. Yes, Eric's doing a diligent job But yes, so I talked to Uh tech support And they said that uh, I should go over there with the computer And hook up to it with bluetooth in a hot spot so they could connect to it And I was like, I don't know how that's going to happen. There's no cell service there So I might have to take some parts off the other one to see if they work on this one to find out which one's back So it's not a battery charging issue. It's some kind of electronic issue that the battery won't charge Um, so I think it's a it's a control issue I don't believe it's a battery issue. I believe there's a control issue. Oh, okay in the board So I'll be born lives right next to that sign correct. It's not far from his house he but he kind of took the lead on Getting that sign. I'll be born. Oh, I'll be okay. Um lives on the right hand side there if you're headed towards Worcester I'm wondering if he's close enough and would be gracious enough to say Hook into my wi-fi. Yeah Yeah Just uh I don't know if it's even possible, but just knowing where the sign is and Knowing he's relatively close. It may be something that we could make the other thing is it can't be that complicated To take the thing off and take it back to the shot Well, just just You got his number, right? He's the guy that called us first. I do not but you have it, right? I have albumic burns number Okay Please sir. I know you will have it. Awesome. Okay. Good. Thank you. You're welcome Um Reviewing and approving survey to be sent to village residents regarding potential municipal water needs rust benefit galaxy of yes to attend action likely um, we have sandy levines Draft which we sent all of us. Yeah Um Yeah It looked good to me, yeah And uh, look like it was meeting all the objectives. I would have as I said, I would cut out the wastewater part but Others respectfully disagree. So I'm fine with a few wastewater questions um And the concept is we're going to send this out to The 35 or 37 perspective users and a few other designated individuals Correct sarah, I don't know. Okay. Well, that's I believe that's what we talked about. Yeah Yeah I think you guys need to define what area I'm not going to define the area that we're sending these out to So what we can do is we'll provide you guys with a list of what we have for information Span numbers for the parcels that we believe and then you guys can Correspond the landowners or do you want us to come with the actual landowner names? I think we should correspond with landowners. Oh, yeah, I didn't mean to correspond I meant more if we give you the span numbers of the parcels that we think would potentially be able to connect You can take those span numbers and correspond them to The landowners and the contact information. So can I just make a suggestion span? Yep This has to do with education tax rate. Yep. I just need the parcel ID that would those all correspond with roads And if you give me the Um, you know, if you just actually just draw a map I need to try to figure it out because there's been some land changes since then so you probably might not know Who's changed hands? You definitely have a map that I can I can pass along Okay, who's going to pay for this? One thing that I thought a little bit about is we've sort of thought about the The area that goes along the river See this is what you need a map The map that you have but I think it's probably Not We could from where our water supply is and where a reservoir is We might be able to actually serve we could definitely serve center road up till some place and might might be almost over to the other side because the proposed elevation of the Storage tank storage tank is 750 feet, which is quite a bit above You know the the little river road there on the other side. So there may be options for more Yeah For more users than we were sort of narrowly thinking And also one of the things I think to think about is that if you go ahead and do this It's likely that there will be more Users or Subdivisions or whatever that happens within whatever districts there are because there'll be a desire to Use infrastructure that doesn't presently exist And I think that includes just even might across the street from us Those guys are they have a need for a lot of water there So I guess my my quick answer to your question Sarah is I think we the town can pick up the relatively modest expense of setting out 35 or even 50 Letters and I realize it takes time to print and stuff and I know that's a pretty big job I'm sorry. That's a pretty big job You know, it's not something I've got I've got to do it I don't have a date. I have to it's okay. I'll figure it out But it's I need to have clear boundaries of where this is going to be and So over the hill I need to know where that hill stops. Are we going down to Are we going down to the bridge that leads to more town and waterbury? Are you You know, is it I assume all of gallus and this community behind sticks and stuff You know, we I just need clear clear boundaries. Yeah, it sounds like Craig He's going to give us some more we're going to we're going to look it over and then you can ask me if there's any questions related to that But it'll have parcel information in the boundary. So It'll get you Because right now my mailing list is all just Sure And so I have to match the mailing list that I use for town reports to a map I think it should come from us Because that's common Um, we we can certainly get a list that has all the parcel ID numbers like she's asking for when she should be able to cross-reference that with the actual contact information based on the parcel ID. So yeah, I I think we can get you what we're what you're looking for And if it isn't you tell me what else you need and we'll get it for you Okay Anything else on the subject for tonight guys Do we need a motion for the Yep, you're very good at it. You just you put that little title in there after the word iso move Let me watch Okay, I will do something unusual I will make the motion myself that uh We go ahead with sending out the survey to a designated list of uh potential users And that the town will incur the Expense of preparing and and mailing that out um Craig will help us out with some parcel ID information and whatever else we need to make sure we Make sure we uh hard at the right people. Absolutely I'll second that. Okay Uh any further discussion All in favor I any opposed no, we're good Thank you gentlemen for the time. Yes. Thanks for your patience. No problem. A lot of things to talk about You know have a good night Dorinda treasure Nothing to really report on town finances. I'll have more to report in a couple weeks. Yeah um other than that, um We did get eight invoices from rb technology going back for expenses going all the way back to april um which I sent an email. I guess we had a problem with um battery backup Uh a few weeks ago So they were ready to go out and buy us a battery backup. I said wait a minute We've got a server upgrade coming, you know, what is the status? I said I've heard nothing on the upgrade You were supposed to be changing our email addresses. You were supposed to be Installing a computer. We had sitting here for six months And got no response so that was To the Support you can't talk to anybody unless you really jump through hoops Everything goes through their support system so I finally I Wrote a letter to ruben And said I asked this question over two weeks ago. I've gotten no response. Well, he finally came back and he says well You were on my list of call today And he says we've been so busy and so this so that we haven't had a chance to get around to He says but you know, I'm going to start working on this and that But we never got any further of when this other stuff is going to be done And then I end up later that afternoon. We get eight invoices. Like I said that go back to april so Cheryl wrote an email with my approval to Their bookkeeper saying this was unacceptable that we work on a budget and No response that was last and early last week still no response and she cc ruben on it No response. I really think that we have a problem there As much as we said we sat down and met with them. They're not I think they've outgrown There and that's basically what he said. He didn't have enough people. He didn't have this But they had no problem charging us for a monthly fee every month So I just am really concerned about the service we're getting with them And we signed that contract and um Now are these are these bills within the hours that we've allotted not all of them And you signed an order for and then they billed us for july which we did not pay but there's an order in there tonight That I think it was like Was it $1,800? It's something like that $1,500 or $1,800 and But that's just really unacceptable So the question is what if anything that we do that we call ruben back in here again? Well, I I just want you I mean we entered into this contract with them with all these promises and He hasn't followed through on Why would you do anymore if we called them in and talked to them? You know, so I I just want to bring it to your attention. I mean right now We're probably stuck between a rock and a hard place, but um I'm trying to find the email I got from him but it was Sarah, what was the time frame when you were having all the problems here? Just wondering how much of these When I was thrown under the bus as the person who is the problem that hurt my feelings Since we're all talking about feelings tonight that hurt my feelings. No, I think he's talking about the avenue situation All for the router Oh the router The router was uh What was the time frame that's two months ago a month and a half ago Well, it's got to be and it's got to be somewhere and I'm trying to figure it out here This is so it it'll tell you so it's april march april and may we've got portal storage fees And then we have monthly services for april and june. I haven't seen ruben on a meeting yet It was before my time We're talking about when they came in when he came in that was january. Yeah, I was so It was when I got back from vacation and you guys had had a really wicked storm here Right And by the way, I was here late the last week when we had a storm and All the all the compute there was no battery backup for any of the equipment downstairs My computer has battery backup. That's lasted the computer downstairs for that the public done had a battery backup And that worked that stayed on but everything else immediately shut down That's one that you could hear hit the ground and go I mean it was really intense. Yeah, it was really intense But I mean there should be that those They shouldn't be hitting a wall like that. There should be a chance for us to go run around and turn off the computers I had this and is it because some of the batteries are bad and some of those well those battery backups only lasts so long No, no, no, but they they should last They should be size so they last for 15 or 20 minutes This was long enough so that I could turn it down turn it off I could go downstairs the public computer But all the other computers the listeners the bookkeeper and our server just went down Nothing. So do they have uninterruptible power supplies and they're not working or they don't have them? I don't I don't deal with that. I don't know. They should It should be a chance for us to like power down all our equipment in a situation like that. Right, correct So so we don't know right now Dorinda when I mean This was the time when we were supposed to be getting that server right in the next month or so When we wanted it the first of the For july We said that you know, we wanted it in the new budget He said he's going to work up a quote for the work below and we'll get to me next week We got completely bombarded by sites with servers running windows 2012 And which you know goes out of support in october and he's just going on about that and he says Um Then he says of course none of this is your problem. I apologize for the radio silence being busy is one thing But I should have been more communicative. That's what he always says. That's what he always says. That's my point, you know, so I just I mean the only thing I the only thing I would say and I'm not trying to defend them is Almost every organization I deal with who I'm trying to get whether it's work on one of my buildings or on my house or on my vehicles Or on my equipment or whatever it is I get the same thing Everywhere I go. Yes, we can get you in it'll be six weeks When he was here in January That's going to be outdated before it ever gets in the soft I know guys. I know I'm just telling you obviously they're overwhelmed and they don't have enough employees But I'm just saying it's it's a very in this day and age. Unfortunately. It's a very common problem It's frustrating. It's aggravating I get it But I don't really know what we can What we can do. I don't think we can shift horses now if it goes on I think we have to consider shifting horses, but every time we Every time we talk about doing that we come back to the same old Issues, so I don't know. I know it's frustrating to you during the day Well, it's not frustrating, but I just think that you know, it's Unfortunately, we keep going down the same path. It seems like Yes, is there an IT person that is in the town that might be able to offer up some Support and a volunteer basis to get you from at least that I mean, I can set that computer up But I don't know because they've got old passwords They won't give us and it won't give you a cure or anything nothing But maybe there was somebody that if he based on his Background the problem is that they are very proprietary to their soft passwords So yeah, we're kind of at their marks. Gotcha So The other thing I would say is We made what in the end I think was an unfortunate decision Phil Hayek volunteered to set up our town email system And We supported him in that and it basically never worked the way it was supposed to And you know, he was a good guy. He was doing his best But It just it just couldn't happen. So I think it's you know, if it's if it's Some minor little thing Yes, maybe but any kind of serious setup or organization were pretty much We're pretty much stuck and the other problem is That when you look at the cast of characters out there or we could potentially use It's kind of a kind of a bad picture. I'm not saying impossible that it's a bad picture It's not like they're for to pick from and any one of them might be better So it's a challenge Well, maybe we put something on town letterhead And signed by peter and that if the that uses words like disappointed And I don't know other than just leaving it to durenda to keep calling Well, I don't mind I don't mind calling picker's question. It's a good question. What what good does it do? Um, if it makes everybody feel every better, it's worth making a phone call, but I mean, I think what we do need to know which I am willing to make a phone call about is so, okay When are we going to get this server? When are we going to get that computer set up? Back to me next week that was written to me on June 15th. So I say give it a shot and use words like reputation Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna call them. Yeah, and just say hey, you know Once again room, but I'm getting the heat. I've taken the heat for you before Well, the problem is is we can't go down. Well, every time you do that He figures somebody here is being the bad person like he doesn't want to deal with sarah anymore because sarah used to complain Now I'm complaining and he's not going to want to deal with me pretty soon That's not going to be anyone sitting here. That's willing to deal with him You know, so I just I wanted to bring it to your attention because I don't think it's right Whether he's busy or not To get bills going back to april when we're already looking at how our budget's going. What would they say? What do they say when you They just say well, we haven't had a chance to deal with them. No, they didn't respond. They did not respond, you know, so it was like Maybe we should be paying our bills in the same manner in which we receive them Ruben four months late They've got all that they've got all that scary language in their contract about what happens if we don't pay right on the I don't know. Oh, I got it. It's frustrating. You can't really not pay because then Because all your services are worse Yeah Oh boy, he's got a good hand So you would prefer me not to call there and I don't I think that you know, it's probably I'm bringing this up because I think it's something that You really should think about You know, do we continue to sign contracts with them? Or I want it in the record that we've had more issues When we signed this last contract with them And kind of held over the barrel so to speak due to the timing If everybody remembers that correctly and we signed it knowing and reviewing You know the termination policy and how we might proceed to continue to explore other options even after signing and Having putting ourselves in a situation where we had the time to adequately search for other services Maybe we're there for the record It's in the record Well, let's do this If you don't hear from when did you promise you got a response for you next week? That's this week He doesn't get back to you by friday, would you just send me a quick email and say I haven't heard anything for a moment? And I'll follow up The only other thing I had is I spent some time uh Going through the last financial report that we had And you know It looks to me unless something unbelievably Unforcing comes up like we're going to be fine for year-end. Yeah, I think the last one we got it did look But then again these things we've got a lot of last-minute expenses that You know you get Fall into it, but um, I think we'll be okay. You don't do that far off. Yeah. Yeah Okay. Yeah, so that's okay then um And the setting the tax rate, um I think that I was hoping to do it for Next The first meeting in july for the fourth or fifth fourth. There's a holiday, but Um, it looks like we're going to have to set it back another week So it may not be till the second week of july Before I have the information Okay, well, I don't know what People have for Plans over the fourth when they're going to be out of town or unavailable But I was just going to recommend that we push the meeting back a week. Anyway, just to avoid that whole issue Um, but again, I don't know how others feel about this. I am going to be around I've got all these submarine people coming to town I just want to say that Talking to the listeners everyone. I'm not sure the state's going to be ready with its uh with its magic number for the education rate Especially since it's coming up on that weekend There probably won't be enough time to process what you guys are going to be dealing with They usually produce that education rate on june 30th Which is like that like a saturday or something they've come out with them in the weekends, but Just uh, it might be you might not have the information you need on july Yeah, and that's for setting the final rate. I mean it's the local portion that you guys need to Figure out. Um I've initially gone through it and right now it looks like With initial numbers We're probably talking 13 Or 14 cents increase No surprise Well, unless anybody else is thinking differently than I am I would suggest that we postpone that first minute meeting in july until the following Tuesday Yeah That work for everyone I just support that. Okay What's the what's the uh, what do you normally do? What's the policy if You know, we seem to be postponing stuff for If somebody's out If one of us aren't here There's no policy. There's no policy that my my practice has been When we make a major or potentially confrontational or Difficult decision on an issue. I prefer to have all the board members present if it's possible And certainly setting the tax rate is one of the most important things we do as much as Miranda does 90 of the work and we approve her work That is where the rubber hits the road and I would be Sorry if people had to miss that meeting. I think it's important Um, but there's no policy So I like to deal with things. I like to get them off the table But I also like to have everybody involved in the decision-making process. So I'm trying to walk that Fine one line walk that fine line. Yep Anything else to render? No, okay Okay, everybody's favorite subject welch park update action possible. Well action may be possible, but it seems to be impossible. I called A riley last week and said, hey, how are we how are we doing on those documents? And he said I'm working on them, but I don't have them yet He said I'm going to come in Monday next week and the holiday and Work on them and I'll get right back to you before the meeting on Tuesday. Well, of course, you didn't get back to me Um, but I know he is working on them and I'm trying to keep the heat on them The best I can I mean again the status is I think we have verbal agreement on a plan It's getting in writing and getting everybody's approval to get it done Um Orders or busily signing orders correspondence No, I just if you uh, I'm just going to give you one really quick update on on rich road. So as dorinda was If that just can mention we've received our money for the buyout It's in their account and you guys have it in order. So it's going to lawyer. So that's done I've sent out rfps for the Asbestos consulting and I've sent out rfps for the demo And the first rfps for the asbestos consulting are due for 30 p.m. Tuesday 11 Depending on what we get possibly we might be able to to vote on them at that meeting We'll have to wait to the meeting We're moving right along And uh, ideally we'll I've talked to a couple of contractors. They seem to think that it could be done in 45 days Wow That'd be great that would be awesome as long as it isn't twice what we projected in terms of cost No one knows right right You've got to get the Gotta get the testing results back and kind of get the testing results back and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah Well, it's happening. We've we've expended our seven dollars and 39 cents or whatever it is. So that's good Oh, yeah Don't get the checked with the third Nice So that's it And then you guys can work on on downgrading that road. So Eric won't have to plow it in the winter Will that be nice? Very nice Just thinking about timing and meetings and whatnot the discussion around moving the first meeting to the second week Um, historically have you Done two meetings right in a row. Uh, so we would still meet on the 18th. Yeah, that works for you guys Yeah, I'll be away the following week. So I just want to make sure I will be I will be sure. Yeah, I will be too All right We're going to smile and smile in the water. I'd be glad to give me some counseling on that subject. You need it Um, anything else come before the Select for this evening I don't want to micromanage So I'll let you look at this vector and you can say something about the discrepancies Talking about paid time off. Yeah That was put through as time worked. Yeah That's overtime There's four hours of vacation on those two labor logs and only two submitted Approved by Eric Two hours two hours eight hours There you go 38 and two Got eight hours two hours. He's got two more hours of vacation time here that weren't accounted for that will put in That's work time So it's just not coming off of his numbers for vacation time. Correct. Okay So I think what Randy what I'm hearing is that um I think what Vic will say no, it's not that he doesn't want you to micromanage He wants I think what I was hearing is that we need to look at Eric on a new In a new way and so he's he hasn't um I think if we point this out to him And Accused of micromanagement for okay, but I think what maybe what Vic was saying is well, and I won't yeah Anyway, I I I think that um We're gonna do copy these and give them Eric or have me come down. Okay You deal with that RV1 I'm just pointing out the issue. Well, I would like you to keep pointing it out. I agree I just don't think that I think what I was hearing from Eric is that I wasn't That that that you were that the lens that we were looking at his position And was something that was out beta based on previous performance And that and and I don't think that Vic was asking for you not to be looking at these numbers as closely as you are And I'm glad you're playing it out because I did not look at it as closely as I as I may have should may should You know what I'm trying to say could have could have um But I think that this is an excellent example of how He needs to be managed as much as As his he's needs to be managing his people it all needs to come up a level if he's going to be If he is going to Take on this responsibility he has to he has to Errors like this shouldn't be happening especially on the day that he's he's coming forward with the proposal Quite honestly errors are going to happen all the time I don't appreciate being accused of micromanaging when i'm holding people as a standard that we need to be holding people to That's that instance right there Is the extent of what my communications have been thus far With Eric and just calling out stuff like that and if I'm going to be accused for micromanaging By doing what I just did there then then I'm sorry, but I feel like i'm doing the town residents The justice that they deserve. I think that the words that that triggered Eric Perhaps you didn't mean them in a in a you were speaking universally across the department versus You know, he just heard your fire. You know, you don't perform your fire and and so I'd like to add though that this is the thing I'm being accused of micromanaging where These are the kinds of problems that come across the desk when we're trying to do payroll We're trying to adhere to a policy That i'm trying to get clarifications. I've taken so much heat about booths I've taken a lot of heat about the way things are calculated I'm just trying to oversee What the voters have approved And what is the other person out policy and to be told that I am a problem There is a problem So I just I don't appreciate it. I'm trying to do my job that I was elected to do and manage the town's money Well, we don't appreciate sometimes. I think sometimes it's the attitude. There's no attitude Listen guys, let's let's no if you want to talk about it. I'll bring it out about it I love to talk about it. It goes back three months. It goes back about three four months Good, let's talk if you want to talk about if you don't want to talk about it. Peter you're the chairman I just something I would prefer I don't think it didn't be productive and I think we should adjourn the meeting for tonight but I My comment on this is it's all of our Responsibility in our own way to keep an eye on what's going on in the town and certainly darinda In her in her role is right at the center of the tornado or whatever when it comes to payroll And you know, she's very conscientious about getting the payroll done in the timely manner when she gets incorrect information And she has to go back and follow up and call and say what about this and what about that? That's extra time for her and it's inconvenient and it's annoying And when she gets pushed back on top of that it's even more annoying because that truly is her job Her job And uh, that's what the traders do. It's not what this is about It's not what it's not what we're talking about We're not talking about a job. You said tonight explicitly that Randy and I used to wear micromanage No, you said we you guys are a problem or micromanaging what he does. I'm not micromanage. It's not just him Like I said everybody in this room has brought it up and I'm the only one that's come up and bring it up and saying If you want to go down that road, I'm more than willing to I'm more than willing. You guys don't just say it. You say it It's it's been brought up many times. Well, if there's other people in this room right now have a problem They better speak their piece There Well, peter's the only one sarah's one. Oh good. Then they got something to say so I'm going to say it Oh, here we go No, no, no, sir. You're changing your mind Oh, yes, because people talk out of both sides of their mouths. All right, but this is triangulation and it's not okay So but what's that because it's it's here say and I mean, it's not the first time that sarah's done this to me She'll get me started and then she'll say, oh Some people like to stir the pot. Okay. So it's it's not productive You know, I'm trying to serve let me solve all your problems. I resign. No, see there This isn't was that help thick Okay You guys have fun setting up the tax ring No, everybody sarah said this peter said that victor said they said well you actually did say when you took peter Matthew came back and said we talked about it And we both got to say that dorinda and maybe we've got to back off and let peter let eric do his job I want you to know it's honest truth. I am the biggest supporter of that gentleman. He doesn't feel that way Oh, yes, he does. Oh, no, he doesn't that's why he said that tonight No, he like to stop. Yeah, this is I look at it on t-shirts or not. Maybe it should be on t-shirts. This is absolutely awful. This is absolutely awful I apologize. I apologize for whatever I have said That has that has given that impression I don't want to lose you as a friend and I don't want to lose you as a friend Do people stay say something to Be loving to be sad. Yes Victor thinks victor thinks rangy and I are in collusion together That what you think? Oh, yes. I think I think I will tell you I will tell you flat out One of the biggest reasons that I sit here is because I didn't feel like there was transparency I do not anything I have to say is that right here in this meeting. We do not have transparency As far as I'm concerned everything I have to say happens right here in this meeting Like I said, I think it's the attitude of the way you say it Guys, I'm going to return maybe you want to continue this Excuse me I refuse to sit here and have my character brought to question On anything I'm doing here If you if anybody has anything to say say it out in the open I don't have any problem. That's what I'm that's that's my personality. That's the way I am these town residents Deserve to have a sense of transparency within this board. Right That's the whole reason I got involved here Right, it's basically the same reason we all got involved here. Okay And I don't think I'm not being transparent. I know it's not very present to say But I think that you know, and you know what I can appreciate that I totally I totally can if there's a if there's an issue with something it needs to be brought up and it needs to be It's not it's not so much an issue with these characters. It's it's an issue with attitude It's I'm sorry if I feel like people should be held accountable. Well, it's not that it's how you say It's how you say it It's how your how dorinda says it You heard her You heard her You sat right here one night and she and when I said and when she didn't pay me correctly And I said it's not the money. It kind of hurts my feelings though because I went beyond Above and beyond to help Eric to help the town and I just cut back afterwards After she she said I I she said, well, what do you want me to do? I said you put a polish I'm not gonna happen. There's a very good apologize for there was a calculation put in place And whether you felt like the calculation was proper or improper. No, no, you don't know what you're not saying You don't know what you're talking about. I'm talking about what I heard in this in this meeting Right, but what you don't know is that I explained to her exactly what happened And and she just sat there and would not would not accept any of it At all and I was wrong, but then she found out I was right So wouldn't you say? So what's the so what's the big deal? If if somebody is wrong and they make a correction to it What is the they didn't make a correction? Say she didn't say she said right here in that meeting that you got paid properly after after you made a big issue about it I I did get paid finally but After doing all this stuff extra And then turn around and she kind of laughed at it when she was handing out your paychecks. Yeah, you're gonna kill me And I think that because I don't mind it's not the money It's just the idea she could have said That oh, I'm sorry. You were right. I didn't realize it But she sat right there and wanted to argue with me. That's so mad that I had to leave But that's not the only thing. I mean she's telling people Well, let's let's talk about me because she's not here to defend herself and I don't I don't think that that's a for you What it is the way you said we're gonna fire you those people I didn't say we were gonna fire anybody I said if somebody refuses to do their job on a regular basis, they should be fighting if they don't show up I said, you know, you can't you said that they could refuse to do their job They refuse they can't and I said if they refuse on a regular basis, they should be fighting That's a good message to send with a crew Is it a good message to send to them that it's okay to to not hold up their end for the employment bargain? And the and the taxpayers are just at risk of somebody saying sorry We're not going to do this. We're not going to hold up to our end of the bargain But it's and and it's okay because we're going to continue to employ you. Is that okay? It's a little bit mean spirited to say it like you're stealing You guys are you're selling your time. You're selling your time. That's an inappropriate thing to say You may feel that way, but that's not way to handle it. We could have said I said it was buying their time And the policy is that we don't is that we do not do that It comes down back to a policy issue and I've said it right from the get-go If the policy was that we bought out time, I would be more than in favor of it But eric has taken it The other way and saying you guys are trying to cheat us out of our old time And perhaps you're a cog in the wheel and you're replaceable no matter what that it's not like I go through this There are people on our staff that like to think of everybody as a family and we work through things as a team Um, and then there are other people that are much more clinical in their thinking But that doesn't mean that both people have something we need everybody at the table And you need to be able to have that conversation I'm here having the conversation I have I'm not sitting here. I'm presenting The picture that it cost the town more money And it's unbudgeted money and that's where that's my that my stance on this right from the get-go So you're what you're coming to the table with Is it just as valuable as what victor's coming to the table with which is people's feelings are getting hurt We consider them to be valuable players for the for the the community And and maybe we could tread more softly and maybe we could That I think that's all I think that everybody's coming to the table with the skill set and a and a point of view That only improves Your product So we are off here, correct? No, no, okay. Well, we should be I've adjourned the meeting