 operations owning Linux, they definitely do. Like Microsoft is working heavily right now. There's actually an article that you can go read that's like pretty new, but Microsoft is doing AMD like GPU hot, like hot swapping support for Linux. Like they're working with the kernel team on getting that developed, which makes sense because Microsoft gives Linux like a shit load of money each year. So it's just like that kind of like pulling in multiple different directions hurts like the overall goal of Linux. If the goal was there, like the goal with Linux is just to have support for everyone, have everything work, then security is sadly an afterthought because the community doesn't really, especially with Linux, the community doesn't really care that much about security even though we talk about it like they do. It's more important to have support for stuff and have stuff work. That's more important. It's fair and I think that's what Linux should be because you should have an alternative to like Microsoft and shit's own operating system that's by nature more secure, but also like arcs for 90% of people. OpenBSD won't work for 90%, like it just genuinely, if you have an Nvidia card, you're just fucked. Like there's no option. How close are we to starting this live stream? We are, we're live. Oh, I went live mid OpenBSD rant. Oh, awesome, awesome, not real, I said. All right, so anybody, if everybody's listening to this in the chat, if you could give us gaze or nays on the audio, that'd be appreciative. I don't wanna get halfway through the episode and find out that nobody could hear us. Well, when I clicked over on the live stream, I could hear myself. I don't know that that's good, but people can at least hear me. Again, don't know that that's a good thing, but we'll find out. Well, my levels say that they're fine, but I've seen where the levels say perfect and nobody can hear a sound. So, I don't know. Yeah. I had a commenter on my video the other day on the, I think it was the, I don't remember what video it was, but anyways, one of the commenters was like, was very, very gung-ho for pipe wire. I said something, I just made an off comment about, I went touch pipe wire with a 10-foot pole and man, he got so mad at me for dissing pipe wire. So, and then he started accusing me of deleting his comments. So, you know what I did? I deleted his comments. Well, I don't like being accused of things I didn't do, so therefore I just did it. I was like, if you're gonna be an asshole, goodbye. You know, at least be an asshole for something that's good. So. I love the fact that most likely YouTube was seriously deleting his comments. He's just getting so frustrated. You're like, well, you know, if you're gonna blame me you believe something, I might as well make it true for you. Well, he was so mad. His first comment apparently got deleted by YouTube for whatever reason. And so, when he came back with a second comment, which wasn't deleted, I saw it and I responded to it. He was like, well, wow, really deleting my comment, right? Because I made a comment positive about pipe wire. Well, obviously you're too much of an idiot to actually use pipe wire. And then I didn't respond like, I didn't delete shit. And then I responded with, you know, more stuff about pipe wire. And then he came back and then he started responding to other people saying, don't say anything good about pipe wire. This guy will delete your stuff. So I deleted all of his comments and panned it from the channel. Well, I think you wanna be an asshole. It's so fucking stupid. The sad part is, is like when you get really, like when you get really emotional on YouTube, like typically that's when YouTube deletes it. Like, whether it be for some stupid reason, like you said crap or something, like I genuinely don't know. Like half of the comments that people have like emailed me and been like, I sent this massive comment and I've entered it like, I literally had this happen from three people. Three people have emailed me being like, I put in this massive comment and YouTube keeps deleting it. And it ends up being like something stupid in it. But I never saw it. I don't even know it ever existed. Like, oh, just YouTube nukes it. Yes, so there's a lot of stuff like that where they'll delete it, but sometimes some of the stuff where you actually get to have a chance of like seeing it before you approve it. So you go into the back and you see these ones that are waiting for approval. I've seen several in the last few weeks that were all variations of, I love your channel. Like, okay, that guy's definitely a spammer. Get rid of him. He's so stupid. Like I understand that a lot of like the scam artists or whatever, the ones that post links to Bitcoin, festivities, start off with, I love your channel here, click on this link. But they didn't even have links on it. It was just a dude saying, I love your channel. Like, okay, it was so stupid. Like YouTube's algorithm is so bad. They just need to start over. It's obviously completely broken. It's actually really sad. Like it genuinely, like if this is what a massively, massively overvalued and rich as shit company can and produce with AI, we're so screwed. Like people are worried about AI taking over the world. If that's your worry, please stop. Because YouTube can't even figure out what a real comment versus a bot comment looks like. You gotta, yeah, you gotta ways to go before you get to iRobot. Exactly, like we are hundreds of years off at this point. Okay, I was just thinking, you've seen that movie, iRobot, right? Yeah. Like you're just thinking, instead of Will Smith shooting the robots, all he has to do is go up and smack him in the face. Well, not even that. If he acts kind of like one of the other robots, they'll view him as their own. Like they won't even realize that he's an actual person. They'll just be like, oh, hello, other bot. He'd get really mad if one of the robots said something bad about his wife. The Will Smith goodness. Oh, dude, the memes have been so good. The memes have been the best part about the whole thing. I feel bad for Chris Rock, but come on, the memes are worth it. Like it was so worth it. Like there was one that was like, one of the first ones in the R slash Linux memes thing on Reddit was, Chris Rock was a boon too. And then Will Smith was Arch Linux. And there's been a ton of those since. Man, so good. To comment on Russell said, wow, the audio's in sync. Yeah, not only is it in sync, I'm also using the Brio 4k webcam. Chef's kiss, working great. It's just open BSD, man. It's just surprisingly, shit that don't work right in Linux is working here. Now we won't address that because like that's something we shouldn't talk about. We'll keep it on the low. We won't mention it during the recording, okay? There will be no mention of how open BSD is working better than Linux and have that. Because it's fake news, dude. Exactly. It's fake news. Mine is working perfectly fine. Secretly running Windows 11 behind the scenes. That's definitely what's happening. He's definitely using, he's got, he's got Bill Gates underneath the desk. You take that how you will. Oh God. Hold on, before we actually start here, I'm gonna run and grab a drink. Have fun with that. All right. I'm pretty sure that if I dissed BSD, Tyler would go on a 20 minute rant about how good it is. And I'm not denying that it's good. I'm just saying that it's not for me because I need, you know, things to work, that don't work on BSD. Like steam. What type of shit are you talking about open BSD now? Oh, I was just saying that was not for me because it doesn't like, it doesn't have steam on it and doesn't have like, you know, off that I need. Although. Well, it doesn't have steam, but you can run some steam games. Not nearly as many as Linux. That was Linux's excuse for many, many years. Like you can't run Windows games, but you can run some Windows games. And there was like, the Windows guys comes over. Okay, well, I'm gonna give this a try. How many Windows games do you got? One, two. There's about 20 for open BSD. About 20 or 30 somewhere in there. This is just, like it's just, it's all right, man. This is like literally like Linux back in the day when it comes to steam. The thing is, for me, OK, this is the way I look at it. Is that Linux always, well, OK, not maybe always, but once steam arrived on Linux, it always had hope that it was gonna get better, right? Cause Valve seems to have always had some interest in developing stuff for Linux and making gaming on it better. I don't have that hope for BSD ever, right? Especially given what you said about the developers not really wanting community help and support stuff, right? No, no, no, no. The developers, it's not that they don't want help from the community or any of that. It's just that if the community wants stuff, they're not going to bend over backwards to get it implemented if they don't need it. So, and most of the open BSD developers, like core team are not playing steam games on their devices. So, there you go. Nerds. You know what I'm saying? I'm sorry. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. Like, yeah, it's nerdy, but for me, the cool thing about open BSD is because of the lack of, like, I wouldn't say there's a lack of games for it cause they're really not, especially if you're into retro gaming, like pretty much every emulator under the sun works on open BSD. You can play to your heart's content. But because there's not a lot of like games for it, like just in general, there's not a ton of games on open BSD. It kind of pushes me towards doing what I've wanted to do for a while, which is not only learn Rust, but use a actual, like not full engine, but just game libraries for Rust or whatever programming language and build a game that way, which I've never done before and is being a lot more difficult than just using Godot, which Godot is on open BSD. You can download Godot and build games using Godot for open BSD. Don't like Godot that much cause it's just, I don't know, it's not that it's a bad engine, it's just that it's, I don't know, it's not my favorite, especially when it comes to 3D. When it comes to 3D, it's really far behind as competitors, but Godot 4 is supposed to improve that a lot. I have no idea when that's coming out. Okay. I changed your topic for today a little bit. I just broadened it out a little bit to spreading the word about Fox software instead of just being narrow-minded under schools, if that's all right. Yeah. Cool. All right, I think we should go ahead and get started. Now you have audacity on that contraption that you call computer. I do, I do. See, that's the thing is I think that 90% of the stuff that I do, I could probably actually do on BSD because you have OBS, you have audacity and stuff like that. So I could record, but the problem is I have nothing to record about because all the stuff that I do is record stuff about Linux. So what about virtualization stuff? Can you like run like Vert Manager or something similar in BSD? As far as I know, no. But you can't even, there's no VM at all. Not that there's no. You can definitely virtualize on OpenBSD, but I am not sure about what solutions there are for virtualizing. I know VirtualBox is not on here. I know that. That sounds like it would make a really good video, Tyler. Yeah. The only problem is I'm not interested in it. I just genuinely like OpenBSD, like you can do so much. And my system compared to when I was running Linux is much better. Like it's, it just, it looks better. It functions better. It's more simple. You're using Solarized Man. Calm down on the whole looking better thing. It reads better. It's so nice. Dracula, one million times better. I'm just gonna put that out there. It's like, if Solarized is here, Dracula is like way up there. Not even close, man. Not even. I'm banned. Dracula is still right up there with Solarized. It's so good. Like you're banned. All right, let's go ahead and get started then. I'm gonna hit record in Audacity. I'm gonna hit record in OBS, which I only do now because of a backup. Just in case the audio doesn't get lost or something. They don't actually edit the video anymore. The live stream just stays up. But anyways, you can do the claps whenever you like. All right. Three, two, one. Pretty good. It makes a whole hell of a world a lot of difference when I can actually see you. Last week without the video, it was like, you should have, they were like this far apart, dude. You weren't even miles close. That's what I saw when we were recording it. Cause I'm like, that did not sound like even in the realm of close. The thing is I didn't even bother having us redo it cause I just knew that there was no way we were gonna any better at it. There was no way. Without the video. The hilarious thing is Martin, the guy who used to do the podcast with me, he never did video either. So we had to do the claps without video there, completely and I got used to it and we got better. That was before I actually did any editing like at all. So yeah. This is much better. Having the webcam functioning and audio that's actually in sync. If we can string two weeks in a row where this actually functions well, then I will go through and do the other scenes where we have the main cameras on both of us that we each have our own scene. I don't have those now, but mainly cause I don't trust it. Like I don't trust it. Like I know there's something, and I'm just saying it's gonna be on your end. Obviously it's completely possible something can go wrong on my end pipe wire. So I'm just knock on some wood there, you know? Cause I always said I don't want anything to go wrong cause we're gonna get good. All right, let's go ahead and get started here. I can go back to the show notes, which is on four. I have, let's see, there's six workspaces on this monitor. There's seven workspaces on that monitor. I got workspaces up the Wahoola today. That's good stuff. That's cause I have steam open too because so steam's thinking of another one. All right. Shadi asked a good question. Should, could or should we do a podcast where we pretend to be the other person with the likes and dislikes and mannerisms? I think we, I think we could do that. We should do that. We talked about, we talked about a defend the indefensible thing where we each tried something we didn't like and had to defend it for things. That could be kind of cool but we'd have to find something that you disliked cause you like a lot of stuff. I'm much more. Imagine, I think the idea of where we pretend to be each other would be interesting cause that means for one podcast we have to like use the other person's shit and like act like the way they do. That means you would have to use three workspaces and I would have to use like fucking 30. I would murder myself. I would throw myself off the tallest bridge I could find before I ever use SolarEyes. I'm just gonna put that. I could figure out how to live with three workspaces. I will never, ever use SolarEyes. Like, no, it's a horrible color scheme. Makes my eyes bleed as I said the other night. It's just not good. Really? Yeah. I can't stand it. Heavily readable. Well, I mean the dark one obviously we're not talking about the light thing. Compared to, I mean, I can't stand the color is my problem. I don't care if I can read it. I can read many things. That's what it is. When you do a rice, it's all about looking feel, man. For me, I don't, who cares about functionality? I don't care about functionality. It's all about looking feel. All right, let's go ahead and just start it before we bungle this up anymore. All right. I should look at the camera. Why would I want to do that? Hey everybody, welcome back to Linuxcast. I'm your host Matt. And I'm Tyler. All right, so this is the Linuxcast. My collar is fucking around again. This shirt is horrible. Anyways, good job, Matt, with the start of the podcast. This is the Linuxcast. We're talking about Linux things, not the state of Matt's collar. This is gonna be the most unorganized podcast I think we've ever done. Just from the pre-show alone, I have a feeling that we're gonna see a tangent. We're gonna go, ooh, tangent. We're gonna be talking about some good stuff today. So I can't even talk to you. Sometimes we'll just stop now, all right? That was the show, guys. I can't talk anymore. We're getting up to go. All right, Tyler, what have you done this week on Linux? Nothing. We're gonna have to change that because you're not a Linux user anymore. At least you're using something of open source. It could be worse. You could be using like Windows or something. Yeah. Well, I mean, to that regard, I guess we could, the first time in forever. He has such a complete move. I mean, it's like he's never done a podcast before. Yep. Maybe his brain has been fried because of all that solarized he'd been looking at. Maybe, man. That's a good argument. Definitely. We could just blame solarized. I think we should. Definitely blaming solarized. But I've pretty much just been working on the mini ITX build because I'm taking it out. I got a Pico power supply to go into it and this open BSD setup is now gonna be hyper portable and go with me everywhere. I've been writing some markup guide or markdown guides that'll be going up to a lab repository so people can have some, I don't know, just some of the stuff that I found to be really useful. I've actually started like jotting down notes on a notepad here next to me and putting up guides. So I'm gonna upload that here before too long. And then also I've been reaching out and gonna start doing some series, kind of like I had started with the Linux crew. But I'm just gonna rename it and actually like making a proper playlist for it. And we're just gonna go by the Unix crew. And then pick it back up from there. So that's what I've been working on. Every time someone says, Unix, I have pictured Jurassic Park. Oh, I know this, it's Unix. And then it's just so, this shows something that doesn't look anything. Like, It's like a gauze. Like maybe it was an app in Unix or something, I don't know, but it's just like, first of all, oh, this is like 14 years old. Oh, this is Unix, I know Unix. Sorry. I told you I was gonna be easily distracted, Dave, man. I just... You said you're going to be using your gaming PC out in the living room, right? So... Yep. We talked about this in the pre-show, but it'd be really cool if there was like a streaming, a way to stream it to your BSD thing. That'd be awesome. Hopefully, here before too long, Valve will get some kind of browser version of Steamlink. I really hope so. That'd be awesome. I know there's other solutions, but Steamlink would just be the easy one. Yeah, I mean, I understand why they didn't do it in the browser to begin with, because it would have sucked. But at least nowadays, it seems like it could be something that we're doing. Because I mean, like, say what you want about Stadia and GeForce now and stuff, they seem to be doing at least something that could work in that realm. But it'd be better because obviously you're not gonna deal with a ton of latency because you're just a wall away. Although chances are, if they're gonna do it through a web browser, it'd probably be, it'd probably have to go up to a server somewhere and then come to you. So it would be that great. I don't know what I think about it. Well, I mean. Unless there's something, I mean, I wonder. I mean. There has to be something like a screen share, something or the other on BSD, you think, right? Something where you could... There's plenty of different ways that they could do it where it could be done locally. And still access through the browser. I mean, hopefully they implement something like that. But I'm sure there's reasons why they haven't done it. I'm sure there's some pretty difficult technical limitations to get around. Also, there's like 12 people who use BSD. In a sense. Well, yeah, there's a very select few of the people. Let me restate that. There's like 12 people who use BSD who want that. I mean, there's tons of people who use BSD and there's lots of servers, obviously, but I mean, you're never going to run Doom on a server. I mean, you shouldn't. I mean, yeah, I can, I can, God. I could just. I've played Doom off GeForce now, so. Yeah. I could just see someone getting like an IT guy getting fired and you know, I got fired because he was playing Doom on the server instead of doing what it was actually supposed to do. But it plays an office DST, man. I had to do it. All right. So I actually, unlike my esteemed colleague over there, actually did things on Linux this week. So I'm for a while now. So one of the first videos I made was on a program called Zemwiki, and it may actually be the first video I actually made that wasn't a podcast. So way back in September of 2020. And I used Zem for a long time, so if you don't know what Zem is, it's a like a note taking wiki kind of thing where you can create like a knowledge database for the stuff. And it's free open source. It's really good. But in my quest of moving everything that I do into the terminal, because hello, nerd, I moved to Vemwiki. And Vemwiki is actually really good. It does a lot of stuff that Zemwiki does, but it does it inside of Vem. And you can use the Vem keys, and it's amazing. Because everything that Vem does is amazing, by the way. I'm just going to put that out there. Emacs sucks. Mm-hmm, yep. I agree. I'm going to take as a joke. I am completely over 100% agree. Well, I did that because I know there's somebody in the chat that's going to get triggered by it. I'm just saying, you know that's going to happen. Anyways, but the problem is, I said that, and then I'm going to say that there's something wrong with Vemwiki. The problem is that I have multiple Vemwikis, and navigating them is not easy. Also, creating the directory structure inside of Vem so that you can actually name things the same. So, a lot of the things that I do require, like me having the date, and I really would like to create a folder structure of 2022, then April, then the date, like 04. But every month has a 04. And the way Vemwiki does stuff is that if, even if it's in, it would store all those things in the same directory. So it would have the same path. So when you got to, like, if you had a March 04 and you got to April 04, it would actually be reading the March 04 file, and it's annoying as fuck. So I've had to actually, what I've been doing is just making sure that every index has its own unique name, Founding. And that has been okay, but it's not necessarily the way Peter was, like, unsubscribed. So the Emacs comment, I knew he was there. I just said it just for him. Anyways, so, I've just been doing the unique file thing in Vemwiki, but it's gotten, I go into that directory and it is just a mess. Like, it's like hundreds of hundreds of files in the same directory. It can create other directories, but it's inconsistent when it wants to do it. Like, you can do, if you create a link inside of Vemwiki and do a name and a slash and then the name of the file, it's supposed to either create the new directory if it's not created or store whatever you're doing inside of the directory that already exists, but it doesn't always do it. And I don't know why. I'm obviously doing something wrong. But anyways, the whole point of the thing and all that rambly shit was, was that I'm moving back to Zim, which is unfortunately a GUI application, but it's actually still really good. So that's what I've been doing. There is supposedly a way to move all the stuff from Vemwiki back to Zim. I just haven't figured it out yet. Like, it shouldn't be hard because Zim just stores stuff as text files in with Markdown. But I haven't figured out how to translate those two yet. I also created, I've been doing a little bit of scripting. So I've been trying to use my standing desk more because I've told myself, because I found, all right, so you talked me into this tile, this is because of you. There is a desk, I've been planning for a long time to get a new desk because my desk, it wobbles. It has turned my damages so freaking old. But the point is, is that I need a new desk, but originally my plan was just to get an L-shaped desk that was just like $300 or $400. And I would keep that as my standing desk. But I found a desk on Amazon. It's way more expensive, like $1,200. But it's an L-shaped desk like I want, but it's a standing desk, the whole thing rises. It's amazing. And I want it, but I'm not gonna get it if I'm not gonna use the damn thing. So I've been using the standing desk for a long time. I've had that thing for ages, but for the most part, I'd use it like once a day and then forget about it. So what I did was I created myself a script that is triggered by a crime job through the hours of 11 in the morning to like seven at night. It goes off once every hour, flashes up with a DUNS notification in the middle of the fucking screen says, Matt, move your face, lazy ass, go to the standing desk. So it reminds me to go over there and use the standing desk. That's what I did. I'm gonna, cause you know how the computer can make its own sound? Like there's like a little speaker inside of every computer. Like just, it just makes a ding, right? I'm gonna use that to actually make a sound. I haven't got that part yet, but that way I, cause I always had my headphones in. So playing a sound through the headphones wouldn't actually work. So here I use that speaker. It'll play outside of the headphones and make a lot of noise. Yeah. So the other thing that I did, that I really wanna talk about is that I made a new end screen for the videos. So you probably won't see this, but everyone else on the stream will see this. And it is a, it's an animated end screen that has all the patrons and stuff. Like a, like a scrollable text thing. It's really freaking cool. And I spent a while doing that. It turns out that it's actually fairly easy in, Caden live to do it, but it's just something that I didn't know how to do. So I actually had to, you know, learn how to do the stuff. So yeah, that is, that's what I've been doing. That was actually really fun. So. I did a lot of, like some, some weeks I really have a hard time coming up with something to put in this section. Like, what did I do this week other than work my ass off? Like, yeah, like I can imagine. Oh, I typed 100,000 words this week. Boring. I like I edited for like 90 people. That's great. But yeah, this week I actually had a lot of stuff. So. F society, I don't know what you mean. Why are you moving again? I'm not moving again. I'm not who you're talking to. But anyways, moving on to the contact information. You can subscribe to the Linuxcast. I need to really need to change that because you can't, I mean, you can subscribe at thelinuxcast.org but there's way more stuff there now because there's actually a freaking website there. So all of the stuff you can find that you want to find including links to past episodes are at thelinuxcast.org including some blog posts. I haven't blogged in a couple weeks. So I should get back to doing that. I usually release a blog post to patrons about a week early but they actually had the last blog post and I haven't released it for the public yet. So that's been a couple of weeks. Anyways, that's linuxcast.org. You can support me on Patreon at patreon.com slash linuxcast. You can subscribe to Zany on YouTube at youtube.com slash Zanyo G's. It was like three weeks ago. He reached a thousand. He's like close to 1400 now. So he's growing, which is good. He's also on Odyssey and there's the store and there's Discord channel, all that stuff. Links to all the stuff that you could possibly want to find is at thelinuxcast.org slash contact and you can subscribe to the linuxcast on YouTube at youtube.com slash linuxcast where we're very closely to getting to 11,000 subscribers which is, I mean it was like yesterday we got to 10,000 subscribers. It's absolutely, I say this every week but I just, I'm astonished at how fast the channel is growing. Absolutely not. Very inspiring, I'm gonna say that. So thank everybody who subscribed if you haven't already, go do that. All right, so Tyler, every single week we scour the interwebs for the latest and breaking news. Seriously, you couldn't find this news anywhere else even on CNN but here. This is absolutely exclusive. You'll never hear this anywhere else and it's obviously 100% complete and accurate and fun and true news. Tyler, what is your news link of the week? After that build up it better be damn good. I'm just saying. Well, one is actually kind of interesting. It's actually a article on linux systems are becoming more and more like threats for malware and viruses and it's a very in-depth article that goes over many different, it explains many different reasons that the conclusion that linux is becoming more of a target for threats, it goes through it very well. I'm gonna just read a portion of the article, just these two paragraphs here. Fortegaard researchers also saw botnet activity related to a new variant of Red Exor. Don't know what that is but malware that, well, here it is. Malware that targets linux systems for data exfiltration. Again, not too familiar with that but I'm gonna assume it's not good. Exfiltration of data doesn't sound fun. Meanwhile, a malicious implementation of the beacon feature of the cobalt strike called Vermillion Strike targets linux systems with remote access capabilities. And then of course it goes into the Log4J exploit which I feel like most people who keep up with linux news have heard that exploit was kind of big news. But again, with most of these things they're fixed very quickly. But the second paragraph, as the use and integration of linux expands we can expect more attacks to surface. For example, cyber attackers are likely to see opportunities in Microsoft's active integration of Windows subsystem for linux, a compatibility layer used for running linux binary executables natively on Windows. And that's pretty damn true. Linux has gotten to the point now where it's just as much of a target as the bigger competitors Windows and Mac are. And it's interesting that with it being a community distro which means pretty much all the work that's done on it is in professional spare time. It's funny that problems are fixed pretty much on par if not faster than companies that have paid employees during the day to do it. And also that it's staying competitive. Like it's still just as secure as it was before it became a threat. And it's still the better choice compared to Windows or Mac for security. Just interesting. You know what we really need? We need some kind of, I don't know, I don't know what we'd call it. Maybe we could call it like a foundation or something. It could take the name of the linux foundation or something like that. I don't know, that's a silly name. I know it's obviously 100% original. But if we had this foundation that got, I don't know, millions and millions of dollars from corporations and apparently does jack shit with it. Maybe if they had this mythical foundation they could put some of that money that they earned towards making things more secure. I don't know. It's just silly talk. Obviously that foundation is never going to exist. Come on. Just stop. That's crazy. Come on man. Like obviously. The sad part is, is if this mythical foundation did exist, I wonder, I wonder if they would use the money that they got more responsibly than the bigger corporations that are giving them the money. I wonder. Yeah, I'm gonna say no. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna say no. I would challenge any like regular Linux user, like somebody who just uses desktop Linux, like that doesn't actually, you know, spend a lot of time looking the shit up. To actually, you're probably too young to remember like when Jay Leno went on to the street and started asking people questions. You remember in the late night shows when the late night show comedians used to do that? If you went out and did that and asked people what the Linux foundation actually does, nobody would actually be able to answer you that question. And the sad part is, that's even if they, you know, even if you went into like Linux Fest Northwest or something like that and asked them what the Linux foundation did, like half of them probably would be able to give you a reasonable answer. The other half, like, oh. Even the people who are educated on what the Linux foundation does will tell you, I mean, like they'll give you stuff, but they're not like good uses of money. Well, then they talk about Linux. There's gonna be a fair few people are gonna tell you, oh, they support the Linux desktop. And no, they really don't. Like they use Macs, bro. It's okay. That wasn't the best scandal that has ever come out of Linux. That is just, it is so juice. Like the Linux foundation uses Macbooks. Like they can't even pronounce Ubuntu, let alone use it. I'm just putting this out there. All right, so my news of the week is a little bit also upsetting. When I saw this earlier, I was pretty upset about it. Fedor has plans to drop legacy BIOS support in all future Isos. And I understand that the pace of innovation must carry on. That's the way things work. And the vast majority of every new system that comes out in the last probably 15 years, probably uses or can support EFI. The problem is, is that not everybody wants to use EFI because it's a pain in the tuchus. So I've used legacy BIOS on every single Linux to install that I've ever done. I've never a single time used UEFI. Even though all my computers that I've ever installed Linux on support UEFI, I just use legacy BIOS because it's so much easier. I mean, you don't have to worry about creating a proper size, you know, partition for the EFI stuff. You don't have to worry about what your partition is, you know, whether it's MBR, GDP or GDR, whatever the hell it's called. GPT, yeah. Yeah, GPT. I knew it started with a G. There you go. I know these things, the words just get mixed up in my head. Anyways, the point is, is that, you know, I've never done it. So I'm a little worried about this. It's not because like, oh no, I can't use Fedora anymore. That's obviously not where I'm looking. But the problem is, is that where Fedora goes, everyone else follows. You know what I mean? And if you want examples of where this is true, Wayland, Pipewire. Hello. They went to Wayland Pipewire. Everyone else went to Wayland and Pipewire. SystemD, you know, they started using SystemD. Everyone else went to SystemD, you know? It's, this is the way Fedora works. I mean, I think SystemD was actually, before Fedora was probably Red Hat, but still the point remains. But the, so in all future versions of, I should say they're thinking about this. The article opens up saying that they're thinking about this or it's considering dropping support. But the rest of the article acts like it's a done deal. Like it's actually done now. I pretty much knew that this was going to happen someday. I'm just very sad that that day is here. And also it doesn't make any sense. I mean, hopefully the article goes into some in-depth explanation of why this change is good. As far as I know, like. Well, it says many desirable features require UEFI, such as applying firmware updates and supporting secure boot, which is, okay, sure. But didn't we just all mock Microsoft because they required secure boot to upgrade to Windows 11? Well, who the fuck cares about secure boot? Like seriously on the desktop, who cares? I mean, even if you do care, you have the option to do it. You know, that's the whole point. Now they say the reason why they want to get away from legacy BIOS is because of the maintenance cost that it takes to keep up with legacy BIOS. But I don't know anything about this, but are things changing in legacy BIOS world? I mean. That is the craziest excuse I've ever heard. The maintenance cost, what? It's called legacy BIOS for a freaking reason. I doubt too much changes. Yeah, exactly. What is changing in the like? Like, I'm sure there hasn't. What does that even mean? Let me see where it says, maintainability has declined as age in the current status quo, maintaining both stacks in perpetuity is no longer viable for those doing that work. That's exact quote from the article. And, okay, let's just say that there's things that we don't understand. Obviously that's 100% possible, right? Neither one of us are true Linux developers. We're not kernel maintainers. We're none of those things. So it's 100% possible that there is some kind of maintenance costs to legacy BIOS. But here's my thing. One of the things that makes Linux great of the many, many things, and this kind of says true for probably BSD too, right? But whatever. The point is one of the things that makes Linux great is that you can have a 15 or 20 year old laptop and you can install Linux on it and it will work fine. That's one of the things about Linux is it allows sustainability for things to work. And it doesn't even have to be a 15 or 20 year old laptop. We've just went through a whole new cycle of a whole bunch of hardware getting basically put into landfills because Microsoft said you have to have this chip. Now obviously there's become workarounds for that stuff and whatever. But the point is that before we knew that there were workarounds, we just thought that anything that was like four years older or older was not gonna be able to run Windows 11. So it was gonna be stuck on Windows 10 or whatever and then it was just gonna be trash. The thing about Linux is that we never had to put up with that because we know, because it's Linux and it's the way it's always been is that it's, you can use those things if we're not. Obviously, four year old laptops and desktops can support UEFI just fine. It's the older stuff that's not going to be able to support it, but the point still kind of remains is that this is basically the same move Microsoft just did that we mocked them for. At least the way I think of it. And yes, it's going to affect probably way fewer people because way fewer people are still using Linux on older hardware, but it still kind of removes one of the primary selling points of actually using Linux. Say, install Linux on this 10 year old laptop. It's gonna work just fine. It's actually probably gonna work better than it did when it was new in some cases, you know? So, I mean, that's the whole great part about Linux is you have it running on your main desktop. You have it running on your little old Raspberry Pi on your fucking smart TV. You have it on all your devices. So that's kind of the beauty. You've got a coherent system throughout. I don't, to me, it's great. Like, I genuinely don't understand the amount of features that are gonna require work on legacy systems like for it to affect anything enough to the point where it's too expensive to maintain BIOS, like legacy BIOS support. One of the things the article said was that UEFI is something that can be supported. You just support it once and that support work goes into every machine that supports UEFI because it's all the same. It said that every legacy BIOS is completely different. So they have to support many different legacy BIOSes. But again, I have to say, how has that changed from the last 10 years? Legacy BIOS hasn't changed in 10 years at all. And it's not like you're having to add more support for legacy, but like it, there's not more legacy BIOS being made. And there's not, as far as I know, there's pretty much no motherboard manufacturers pushing out BIOS updates that are, well, not necessarily not worth anything, but massively improved adding features. Well, at least on the Intel side, that's true. On the AMD side, they at least push things for like new CPUs every once in a while because the AM4 stack has been around for a long time. But the point still remains is that they're not pushing out things that are going to change legacy BIOS. All that stuff is for, you know, the newer stuff. And even that, there's a hundred, like the vast majority of people who are worried about supporting new CPUs every time with a BIOS update, you know, those people are probably using UFI anyways. It's not, legacy BIOS is not going to affect them. Anyways. You cut out. Great. Um, can you not hear me now? There we go. Now you come back. Right. I scored. Great. Awesome. Anyways, Peter said in the chat, but it doesn't affect Linux. It just affects Fedora. The point was made earlier that distrust follow Fedora on everything. Like it's the way Linux has seemed to worked over the last 20 years is that Fedora does. The door is the Mac of us. Like that's literally what it is. Yeah. In the computer space, when Apple does something, most people follow it. Like, yes, there's going to be the outliers, but most people follow it in the tech space. Same thing with the Linux space and Fedora. So as they do something, it bleeds out into the rest of the ecosystem. And he's probably right that there will be either. There's obviously going to be some distros that, you know, maintain legacy BIOS support. They're not all going to go away. The problem is that the deal with like the big ones, like the ones that everyone uses, Fedora, Arch, Ubuntu, they will all follow this eventually in the next year or so. And that's what worries me just a little bit now. Obviously I'm not that worried because I can always just do you if I, it's just more of a laziness thing, but it's just changing something that I've always done to do the new thing is kind of a pain in the ass. That's why I'm bitching about it because I don't want to do it. And it makes me. I mean, it's a valid thing to bitch at because I mean, it definitely will affect not just a few people, quite a few people. Yeah. Quite a few. No, no, that's, that's one of the reasons why I think OpenBSD kind of excels in this area where like you don't really have things that just randomly will just change. I mean, we're, it's still using the same file system. Like since, from since I was born, it's just been improved and made more performant. Like it nothing really changes. Like, like you're going to switch over and stops. I mean, if OpenBSD can do both legacy and bios or UFI, I don't genuinely it's going to be hard. Like if a project with like a few hundred developers can and maintain support for legacy bios just fine. And yet, and yet Red Hat that has the support of IBM can't. Right, that's exactly right. Exactly. Obviously, there's something going on there. The thing is, I don't think, I think that the, I'm going to do a poll on my, on my community tape, on my community page asking, do you use legacy bios or do you use UEFI? I'm very curious to see what the breakdown is because I bet you probably most people use UEFI now. So, but I don't know. So maybe it's not going to be as big of an outrage as I thought it was when I first saw that on Twitter and found that article. I was like, okay, like, don't take this away from me. Okay, like, this is the easy, because when I first installed Linux, installing on UEFI was not easy. Like the first time I used it was not something that was easy to do. Especially for someone who has no clue what the hell they're doing installing Linux. Like the first time I installed Linux, like I had no clue what I was doing. And there are certain things that she, like, I didn't know what to call MBR and GPT, whatever it was, you know, what those things meant. Like, so the first time I did, I was like, I was trying to install Solus Budget because that was going to be my first distro. I don't know why I chose Solus, by the way. It was just completely random shot in the dark. But I got in there and I figured out how to partition the drive. And I chose the one that is for legacy bios, but my computer at the time was still set to skirboot or for UEFI. And so when I tried to, you know, I got, it went install, obviously, and it was just a mess. And, you know, I had actually learned it up, looked it up and learned. But the point is, is I maintained to just do legacy bios because it was way easier. All right, anyways, I spent a long time on that. But I knew going into that I was gonna be upset about it. So moving on to the main topic for today. It's the main topic is spreading the word about open source software. So I kind of rephrased yours was, so yours was should schools use Floss, but my rephrase of it was more, how do we get more organizations like schools and government to use open source software? Something a little bit broader. So Tyler, what do you think? Really in all honesty, I think it comes from we have to stop letting corporations fund schools. Like, and like, no, I mean, that is a topic that we, it's multi-layered because schools, we want funded. And let's be honest, we do a pretty shit job of funding schools. So it's good that companies will come in and essentially build good will with a community and help a school get proper funding. I think what we have to do is fund schools properly through government. And then that way, there's no need for a school to pick up a deal with Microsoft so that every computer runs Microsoft products. Because that's, as far as I know, that's how most schools operate. Either the school gets a massive discount, and I mean massive discounts for using Microsoft products and or they get direct funding from Microsoft. I don't know that everybody knows this, but big corporations do help fund schools. It's not an uncommon thing. So I mean, I think that's kind of the biggest way of spreading it because I mean, there's a reason why companies are willing to do it. If you can guarantee that the younger generation is being raised on your products, then they're going to purchase your products. It's just kind of common. It's the same thing like when you hear people talk about like the Catholic Church, like there's a saying that like, as long as the Catholic Church gets ahold of you at like age five or whatever, your chances of being a Catholic for the rest of your life is pretty much guaranteed. Because the whole idea behind that phrase is if you get someone who's young, raise them on something, the likelihood that they will stick to it for the rest of their life is pretty high. Yeah. And this is the reason why Google has done such a job of trying to get Chromebooks into the schools, right? Yeah. All right. So my answer to this is less political, I guess. It goes the other direction. What can Linux and the open source community do to get to change this? Because obviously the problem you're talking about is probably not going to change, right? Exactly. But there are things I think that could be done. One of the things is more hardware vendors. Like we really need like some main big hardware vendors that actually put Linux on laptops and tablets and stuff like that. And I don't, we've seen some of this obviously, like Lenovo and Dell, but they treat their Linux laptops like Red Head and Step Childs. Like you go under the Dell website and try to find the Ubuntu based Dell latitudes or whatever that they sell, you can't find those things. It's like trying to find an ISO on Debian's website. Okay? I'm just going to put that out there, okay? Like they're there, but you have to use Google to get to them, okay? Yeah. So that's the number one thing we need to work on is getting more hardware that actually has Linux on it. Because right now, the one thing you can't do is get a school IT department if they're, you know, if you want to laughably call a school that has an IT department, which is probably just like one dude. You know, he's like, he's one dude. There's no way that guy's going to go through and install Ubuntu on the entire fleet of laptops that they have. That's just asking way too much of any IT department, right? So when they buy hardware, it has to have Linux already on it. So, and also, it can't be expensive. This can't be system 76. I love system 76. I desperately want one of their desktops. But I can't afford $3,000 for a pre-built computer, you know? And that was before GPUs were plated in gold, by the way. So it has to be something like, it has to be cheap because there's no way that Linux is never going to be able, or pretty much anyone who does this is going to be able to give massive discounts like Microsoft or Google does, like you were talking about, right? So it has to be something that they can put on a desktop or a laptop. I'm looking at you, Pinebook. Seriously, Pinebook has an amazing opportunity if they could do this at scale at creating... Yeah, actually, that's good that you bring up scale. Do you actually think that any of the current, like hardware Linux vendors could do, like in a reasonable timeframe, a deal with like a school? Like say they need like 500 laptops? Regionally, probably. Like globally? No, not right now. I could see like something like, someone like Pine 64 or whatever to do this in like a couple of schools. It could be possible because they've obviously made hundreds of devices before for regular people. I don't understand why they couldn't do it for just one or two schools. I don't know if they could do it on scale to like a lot bigger than that. It would be a lot harder because they obviously have... Every time you go to try to buy... I've tried to go buy a Pinebook Pro before and it's always out of stock, you know what I mean? That's what I'm saying. Like as far as I know, even when it comes to a general market, they're pretty much always like either they're out of stock or you can order them, but like you have to wait a certain amount of time because like they don't have the ability to pump them out quick enough to get it to you in a couple of weeks or whatever. They're pretty much back ordered or whatever. Yeah, some of it is like Peter says in the chat is that it's some of the more recent stuff is because of the shortages and stuff. But even before the shortages and stuff, they had a hard time keeping those things in stock. So scale is going to be the thing there, but that's the type of thing that we have to talk about is that the low price, probably arm-based laptops, that's where that opportunity lies. If somebody could figure out how to do that. Raspberry Pi, okay? They obviously know how to do that shit at scale because they do it at scale. They ship millions of little cards, like a credit card, size computer. Put that thing in a Pinebook Pro and call it a day. That's exactly what needs to happen. Charge a couple hundred dollars for it because whatever, whatever it costs to make sure that it's at least a reasonable size screen maybe has touch on it if it can be afforded within budget or whatever. And make sure it has good keyboard and Wi-Fi and all that stuff, the stuff that it needs. And Raspberry Pi has most of that stuff, support from. Raspberry Pi already has support for touch screens, already has support for the latest Wi-Fi, has support for all this stuff. That's exactly how it needs to happen is if you create. Now, I don't think it's ever gonna be like mainstream, like I think that we've passed the point where like every school is going to use a Linux laptop, but it doesn't have to be everyone. It just has, just exactly how Raspberry Pi did it. They became an enthusiast thing first and then more and more people came up. Now there's industries surrounding the Raspberry Pi. Do the same thing for laptops and you do the same thing for laptops. Some of that stuff will infiltrate government, it'll infiltrate schools, it'll infiltrate companies. You know what I mean? Because it's cheap. People love cheap and if they can make it cheap and good, which the Raspberry Pi is definitely good. It's definitely something that could happen. But, because we were all freaking out about how good the Raspberry Pi 4 was. Everyone said when it first came out, this thing is close to being usable as a desktop replacement. Like it's that close. Not quite there yet. One more generation it feels like you could get there. A little bit more RAM, maybe get up to 16 gigabytes of RAM a little bit faster. A little bit more ARM support, which we're getting there. It could be good. It could be good. Put that thing in a laptop, 200 bucks, 250 bucks, whatever. Bam. You know what I mean? That thing, again, and we know that they can do that on scale. They're even doing it now in the middle of a freaking chip shortage and they're still selling Raspberry Pi's. So, it can happen. I mean, they're much less available but that doesn't, they're still pumping them out. Yeah. You can still get a hold of one. You might have to buy it from a scalper but let's be honest, in this day and age, you're buying everything from a fucking scalper. Right. How do you, you can't tell there's been a scalper or like a regular person nowadays. They're all, we're all scalpers. Now, if I had gotten to like a 3090, my ass is scalping that thing, you know? Of course I am. If I can mark that thing up five times, of course I'm gonna sell it, you know? When gas is like more than like doubled if not tripled in price. Yeah. Yeah. We're all scalpers. You go to the gas station and like, here's some cash. Oh, you mean to your cash and your foot. And your firstborn, okay? Yeah, so that's what I think has to happen is cheap hardware. Cause there is some truth to you build it and they will come. There's some truth. Now, I don't think it's gonna be like Raspberry Pi makes a laptop and like everyone switches to it. I don't think that's gonna happen. There'd be some adoption of it. And really that's all it's needed because it'd be just like Linux then, slow adoption to the point where it finally matters. Like we just talked about hackers are finally taking notice of Linux. Finally we made it. You know? Yup. That's the point. Like, hello, we've arrived. It would be the same thing. It would be slow and steady growth and that's exactly the way it would have to work. And I think that that'd be a good thing. And the thing is, is like I said before, it's a hundred percent possible. Like there's, I don't know why this has not happened yet. Like they put it in a keyboard, slap a screen. Or it's, I mean the main thing is we need that next generation of Pi. Yeah. That's probably what they're waiting for. It is a few more PCI lanes or something so that they can add a couple more ports or maybe a 4K disk screen or something. But I don't even think like we don't, like whatever. But still, next generation we should have to see that. It'd be so cool. I would buy four. You know? Like, just think you could buy four Raspberry Pi laptops for the price of one laptop. Like this all for your entire family with brand new Raspberry Pi laptops. Definitely do that. And they'd set power to do. Like it'd just, it'd be great. You could run it off a potato. You know, like literally it's Raspberry R. Gender says that the Pi 4 is out of stock in UK. I know that it's out of stock in a lot of places. But like I checked the other day, it was on Amazon. Like you could buy one off Amazon. So I'm assuming, again, probably a third party that has it. But still, the point is that they can be found. And most of that right now is still because of the chip shortage. But genuinely though, I do think one of the ideas that might be really, really in it of a word for these like hardware manufacturers would be to get together and kind of pull their resources so that they can get deals made where they can be competitive for schools. Where when a school does need new desktops, new laptops, they, these hardware vendors and manufacturers for Linux devices can offer deals that are at the very least close to competitive with the bigger hardware vendors, which I'm not saying that's easy or necessarily feasible at the moment. But I'm sure with work, it could be possible. And that one, that one's probably going to do the most good for getting open source and FOS into the hands of everyone. Well, I mean, yeah. Well, I mean, could you think just even if it was on a small scale, like just a couple, like it was Raspberry Pi and Pine 6.4 got together and created a device and figured out how to sell that thing for cheap, you know? Because if it's $200, they don't need a discount. It's $200. And I mean, or maybe you could say, hey, you want to give them a $50 discount because who gives a crap? It's $200. You know what I mean? We're with a focus on web apps, like, I mean, especially in schools, most of the stuff that you're doing is on web apps anyway. Yeah, and Electron exists. And I know people hate Electron and it does take up a lot of memory, but they can make that shit better. You know, like the idea behind Electron is actually pretty good. If they made it just a little bit better and a little bit more, you know, memory, not so intensive, it could be really good. But also you- From the hardware vendor side, just make those affordable products and then just cheap out a little bit on the performance side on the CPU and put that money towards more RAM so that it's more optimized for running bigger web apps in school. What makes sense? The thing is, is that, like, I keep coming back to like, I don't know why this hasn't happened yet. Like it should have happened by now. It seems like it seemed like it was gonna happen with the four, I don't know. Oh, what I was also gonna say is that this partnership that you're talking about has to be between companies that don't give a crap about profit or at least have so little interest in profit, more interest in doing boss projects and stuff like that. So things like Raspberry Pi and stuff. I disagree with that. If corporations who they're sole focus is profit, do this type of stuff, then we as a community, or as hardware vendors in the Linux community have to do the same thing. And it obviously doesn't have to do with profits because even if you look at it through the lens of profit, if people use your devices when they start, like if you go to school, like let's just say system 76 becomes a massive hardware vendor for schools. If you go to school and you use all of your free applications on a system 76 computer, even though there are multiple different vendors out there, you're more likely to purchase a system 76 device because you know that's what you're used to using and that's how most people operate. And so, financially it would make sense because later on down the line when that kid gets older and has a more substantial amount of income then they can afford to buy your nicer desktops and pre-built and stuff. Yeah, I think it has more to do more influence. I think that kind of thing has more influence with the software that is running than the hardware. I don't really remember what my, well, you know what? Well, yeah, okay, so I think what's true now but maybe not always what's true because when you, this was before you were born, young and but my first computer was one of those early Macintoshes like the boxy ones that use the floppy disks as wide as my head. So when at that point, yeah, you use that, you knew you wanted a Mac, you know what I mean? And maybe that's probably still the truth for the schools that still use iPads and Macs but if you're just using generic Chromebook number four they probably don't give a crap about what the hardware is but more it's about what Google's doing on it and providing you with that stuff. So I don't think that it's possible to create hardware that is so memorable to students that it impacts them in that way but the software that it would run would be where you do your brainwashing and get them influenced on Linux and using Linux applications. That's where, this is gonna piss so many people off. That's where Chrome OS is kind of interesting to me because it runs Linux apps so it does give people some access. It may be proprietary bullshit and run by the most evil corporation in the world outside of Amazon but the point is is that it does at least give some access to students who might otherwise not have two Linux applications. And that may be a good thing. It may not be everything we asked for and would want in an ideal world where everyone's running a system 76 laptop and Ubuntu or Arch Linux or Gen2 or whatever but it's something at least and it wasn't done altruistically is the problem. The one thing we wanted is done is because it was done for the greater good. It was done for the good of humanity now. It was done because Google want, need some applications for their laptops, right? And they didn't wanna, nobody was coding electron apps or web apps and they really aren't still. They wanted some stuff that actually did things like Caden live and they wanted to bring Steam to Chrome OS. That's the reason why they were doing it. So I don't know. World is doomed. We're fucked over. Yep, yep, we will never have our FOSS in schools. You look at Google and Microsoft and you're like, this is why we don't have nice things, right? This right here, this is why we don't have nice things. Also, that's how we get ants, okay? You ever seen the first episode of Archer? That's the... Animated spy movie on FX? Not movie, but TV show? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That first episode is called Mole. He flips the donuts out of Pam's hands like that, right there, that's how we get ants. I love that. I don't know why, but when you said Archer at first, I started thinking of the CWs like Aero. And I was like, wait. I was like, am I thinking about the right show? Because in my head, I was like, I was seeing the logo for like Aero. And in my head, I was replacing it with Archer. And I was like, that just, it doesn't see. That doesn't fit. Yeah, they're kind of different. Big time. Archer was good until like season four. And then it kind of went downhill just a little bit. I watched all of them. I liked it. I know a lot of people get dropped off. I liked it, but my opinion's on all of this. A lot of people canceled it in their mind because the spy agency had the same name as the terrorist group. But that was, that spy organization existed before the terrorist group, okay? Just calm down, fuck people. All right. All right, so anything else to say on this topic? No, I don't think so. We really didn't, we didn't really talk about how to get governments to do it. But governments have been, they're wishy-washy on their software and they switch things all the time. So like Germany, I think it was like Munich, somewhere in Germany. They use links for ages. And then Microsoft built their corporation headquarters for Germany, like right next door to Munich or whatever it was. And they switched to Windows. So yeah, that happens all the time. Anyway, so moving on at every week, I got the itchiest nose during the podcast. I don't know why it's so stupid. Anyway, so at the end of the episode of every podcast, we come up with a thingy of the week. This is a very creatively named section, as you can tell. We didn't wanna steal app of the week or pics of the week or tip tricks and pics that the guys do. So we came up with thingy of the week. So Tyler, what is your thingy of the week? My thingy of the week is WeChat, RC. Not that WeChat. No, not the one from China that's heavily censored and will definitely spying on you 100%, like 100,000%. Not that one. It's a good one. It's a good client for IRC and it's fantastic. It's WEEChat and it has great documentation. If you have never used IRC but you want to use IRC, I highly recommend going and getting the WEEChat client. It's a terminal client and you can just download it and then go through their quick start guide and that will get you started on IRC. And then if you don't have any IRC channels that you already subscribed to or again are just getting into it and you want to, I've created one, it's on the LibraChat network. It's called, it's the channels hashtag Unix Tube. And so you can join that if you are interested in talking about well, Linux, BSD, all that kind of stuff. And we've got quite a few different creators in there and quite a few different people from the community. So you're all more than welcome to join in and it's a good intro to IRC because most of the people in there are, especially if you're new to IRC, it's perfect because most of the people in there are also new to IRC. And so if you want to ask questions that you might be afraid to because you think they're dumb, don't worry. Okay, the chat log will actually prove I got help from people to figure out how to just manage the channel, set the topic and shit like that. So it's fine, come on in. I'm going to join. I've promised that I was going to join. I will join. I don't expect you to immediately start using something that you're not used to. Well, I'm all about that proprietary stuff, man. I got to have Discord. I've got to have, like, WhatsApp. This is the stuff that I champion on. Don't worry, we all understand it. You're just like the Linux foundation. You breach about FOS and then behind the scenes, you're like Adobe as shit. See, what you don't know is that I record my videos, all my stuff is in a VM and underneath that really is what I'm using is Windows 7. It would be even better if just all of your videos are recorded and then you have like a hackintosh VM that you use Final Cut to edit everything in. I know some Linux YouTubers that actually do that, by the way. Really? Yeah, they prefer Final Cut. So the thing that I've learned about using Linux is that you can't judge people for using other things as long as they still use some Linux. And I mean, like, at the beginning of my journey, I like, yes, I judge people who didn't use Linux full-time, but throughout the last couple of years, there have been things that I wish I had that are available on Mac or Windows that I wish I could have fused. It's only my stubbornness not to use those things that seem not like a dual boot or something. Other people don't have the same luxury as I do to just stick on Linux and do stuff. Some people have to use Photoshop. Some people have to use whatever that's available on Windows. And as long as they're still interested in Linux and supporting Floss projects and stuff like that, they're my buddies, you know? And then unless your name is Tyler and you're using Windows, fuck you, fuck that guy. I was about to say, I was like, so that means everyone, like if you're not interested in Linux and you're not using it at all, then just buy. If you are Tyler and you're using Windows 11 and you're coming on a podcast called the Linux Cast Using Windows ban. Which has never happened before. It's fake news, it's never happened. I have, I don't think, here's a guy who doesn't understand how recording works. I want to learn. Those recordings do not exist. They're fake. They went a little Frank Caliendo there, you know? All right, so my thingy of the week is called Better Bird. Now Better Bird, as the title or as the name suggests, is a better version of Thunderbird. Now, I haven't quite understood what's so good about it yet, but I will say that's faster. So, it does seem to be a little bit less memory intensive than Thunderbird. It also includes several different features that don't really matter to me, but I know a lot of people prefer the way like Outlook does multi-threaded emails and stuff like that. This allows, it allows you to do that multi-threaded email stuff inside of Better Bird where Thunderbird does not support it. So, someone, I don't remember who, it was either someone on Twitter or someone on Discord. I can't remember, I'm sorry, pointed this out to me and I'm using it now and it's pretty good. I will, like I said, the only benefit for me so far has been that it's a little bit faster and uses less memory, but for people who need that other stuff, it still does not support exchange, I'm sorry about that. I know a lot of people like, if only Thunderbird supported exchange, like I understand a lot of people have to use exchange and I'm sorry for those people, but it doesn't seem to, it doesn't support exchange. So, yeah, Better Bird is good and obviously free and open source stuff. So, that is my thing of the work, of the work, of the week, whatever the word is. Basically, these words, definitely not something that I'm good at. All right, anyway, so that is it for this episode. We have coming up next week. I don't actually know, I'm pretty sure it's my turn again. Oh, we're gonna be talking about right to repair next week. So, we've been getting into some really, really deep topics lately, so that should be another one that should be really good. I think, and then Mr. Tyler, there needs to put in some more topics. Just a few, I will also put in some more topics so that we actually have something to talk about in the coming weeks. So, before we go, I should take a moment to thank the current patrons, which you guys are gonna get to see this fantastic graphic again. You can subscribe to the, you can support the page. The problem with this thing being animated is that I'm gonna have to keep up with the damn thing and if I don't keep up with the damn thing, I'm gonna have to start over again. So, patreon.com slash linuxcash is where you can support us. You can thank these current supporters, Robert Sid, Devon Patrick, Fred Kramer, Megalyn Jackson, I'm tool Steve A. Subrogalinix, Garex Samuel, KB, TGB, Mitchell, J-Dog, Carbon Data, Jeremy, Sean, Odin, Martin E, Andy, Ross, Eduardo, Merrick, Cam, Josh, Willie, Peter, A, Crucible, Dark Man, Sex, Primus, and PM. Thanks everybody for watching. Like I said, we record this live every Thursday between the hours of three PM Eastern time-ish and around five or so, usually last around two o'clock, two hours or so. You can find the post-record on the YouTube channel if you would like or prefer the audio version. You can find that at linuxcash.org. I think that's all I have to say. So we'll...