 Good day and welcome back to the Forty Autie podcast, the only autism podcast you need and want and desire, because it is also great and lovely. And it's also great and lovely to have you here with me today. Well today we're going to switch things up, do something a little bit different and dive into the world of cerebral palsy. Cerebral palsy is the name of a group of lifelong conditions that affect both movement and coordination. It's caused by a difference in the brain that develops before, during, or soon after birth usually. I imagine that we're going to learn a little bit more about it from sort of a first-hand experience and understand a bit more about the different types and the perhaps the symptomology of cerebral palsy. But before that, what before that? So today I am joined by the very lovely Emma Stone who's going to be talking about their experience with cerebral palsy. How are you doing today, Emma? I'm good. Thank you. How are you? Not too bad. Not too bad. My routine's a bit kind of all over the shop at the moment, very much trying to find my groove when it comes to creating content. Yeah, I can imagine. What have you been up to? Because I am, I know that from our previous correspondence you have been sort of awaiting a surgery. Yes, it's a new surgery. So that's fun. I'm going in on Monday. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's a, it's a lack of plastic. It's going to be four hours long. Four hours long. Oh my god. I'm going to be in a splint for a week or two. Well, I like around your neck or like around your, your face or your nose. Around my nose. Around your nose, oh dear. Yeah, so I am not looking cool to that. Yeah, I remember you saying that you, you probably wanted to get the podcast done before that. I can imagine, imagine why. Is it because of the splint possibly? Have you ever had a surgery before? I've had a DVS which sends for deep brain stimulation. It's something to help my cerebral palsy. Which is quite interesting. It's, it's four years in my head that go down to a battery pack. Right. Is it, is that something that's like a part of your body all the time or is it just something that occurred sort of during the surgery? It's, it's something that's in my body all the time. Oh wow. So yeah, so you're like a cyborg. Yeah, I am actually. Yeah, that is cool. I have to join myself. I actually do. I have like, I have like a magnet that I put onto my body and then it charges me. That's very interesting. Is that something that kind of occurs like for out the day or is it like, like different sessions that you do? Is it like a constant thing? It's daily, but I don't do it daily. I do it weekly. Okay, fair enough. Sounds very interesting. I've only had one sort of major surgery in my life. I mean, I suppose you could count the very painful and horrific surgery that I had in Thailand, but in terms of actual surgeries, like being put under and stuff, I had like a, some of my ligaments replaced in my knee. I had like a bike crash in Thailand and I had that. It wasn't actually too bad. I was kind of expecting when I came out of the surgery to be like feeling very good, considering the amount of drugs that they put in me. But I woke up and I was like feeling really groggy and horrible. Yep, that's how I felt. Yeah. It was quite horrendous. Yeah. Yeah, it's a very strange experience, 100%. But yeah, I mean, we connected through a sort of a common charity that I worked with and they've also, I think, done some support with UNDTI. And we have done a podcast previously which was a bit shorter, which was over on the NDTI website. I imagine that that's going to go live before this. So if you're wanting a bit more of a concise version of this podcast, you're very welcome to go check out NDTI. They do some really, really great work related to sort of social inclusion. So highly recommend that. So yeah, I mean, would you like to give everybody a bit of a background into who the wonderful Emma is and what kind of stuff you get up to on the daily? Hi, I am Emma Stone. I am 19 and I have cerebral palsy. I do a varied of stuff on the daily. I go to college, I do horse riding, and I also do some dance sometimes. I am working on a blog at the minute, which should be up soon, hopefully. That's very interesting. Is that around cerebral palsy or is that kind of... It's about my life and living with CVs and stuff like that. So it's like my challenges through my eyes and stuff. Sort of an insider's perspective kind of thing. I like that. Yeah. You should consider possibly joining Instagram as well. You can sort of create like... I know it's very popular at the moment these sort of basically blog style posts. I mean, it's a bit of work trying to get to grips with like the image creation and stuff, but you can very much use Instagram as kind of like a shortened blog. It might be quite helpful at some point. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah, it might be a bit of a tall task just for the instant. But yeah, I mean, it sounds like you have a lot of sort of varied hobbies and search, but what are you currently studying at college? Preparation for work. Preparing for work. It's where they get everybody to like work. Yeah. I am currently working in a cafe. I'm like, serving customers and stuff. Interesting. I've never done any sort of customer service types jobs. How is that for you? Interesting. Yeah. Because I have no tools. No? So I just say one. Yeah. Have you had any sort of interesting occurrences that have happened during your cafe experiences? It's normally when we close down, like after like a busy rush, and then more people are coming and expecting food, but there's literally a side thing that we're closed for back tomorrow, and they just don't, they just walk, they just ignore the side and come in. So I have to say, excuse me, but you weren't leaving. Yeah. Well, today we're having you on primarily to speak about your lived experience with cerebral palsy, and I think it'd be really good to start off by talking about exactly what it is. I did give sort of a brief overview, but I don't think it was very sort of descriptive, and you know, I don't think it really gives sort of a good overview of it. So what exactly is it? And how does it kind of develop in people? It's a movement disorder, and it can happen, like you said, before Jordan's whole after birth. So I got it after birth from like Jordan's. There's, there's four main types. There's spastic cerebral palsy, dyskinetic cerebral palsy, and then there's dyskinetic, and I need, I need the spelling of one, because I don't know how to say it. Do you want to send it in the chat? No. Atastic cerebral palsy, and there's mixed cerebral palsy, which I'm guessing is all all three of the ones I said before, but just in one body. Yes. Well, I suppose I want one thing that a lot of people might want to understand or ask is, right? I mean, personally, I know that sometimes it can come with some like cognitive differences as well. Is that, is that something that's that happens for everybody? Or is that it depends on what happens? I think like, I am not a doctor, so I don't know, but I'm just guessing that I would say that it does come with some cognitive things, because I have a, I have a mild learning disability, and that's just, and I haven't been tested for anything else, but yeah, you know, it's fine. But interesting. I would say it comes with a few other things. It can come with epilepsy and different stuff like that from what I've heard. I mean, you said that you sort of developed cerebral palsy due to jaundice, which for anybody who's wondering, I mean, people have an idea of like what it looks like, but just to give people a bit of an idea. Jaundice is kind of like the yellow even the skin, the mucous membranes and the whites of the eyes. Generally occurs when the body is not processing something called bilirubin. And the bilirubin is basically a component that is sort of released when the red blood cells sort of naturally break down. That's kind of kind of my just a little bit of an overview about it. But do you have any sort of personal insight into why that caused, or caused you to develop cerebral palsy yourself? They believed I didn't get enough oxygen to the brain, so that's how I got it. What kind of age were you? I was, I was a few months old. Oh my God. I literally weighed a bag of sugar more or less. Wow. I was, I think I was born about like maybe three or four weeks premature myself. I know it has been related somewhat to, because like autism specifically is, there's a lot of kind of factors in the way that you can develop. You're generally born autistic, so you can't necessarily develop it after, but there are some kind of like correlating things related to sort of particular sort of hormone levels in the womb and also stuff related to that sort of being born premature as well. I was born 28 weeks premature. So that's like 28 weeks is, that is a considerable amount, isn't it? Wait, how much is 28 weeks in months? Sorry, I don't, I don't mean if this sounds a six months premature. Wow. Yeah, I can imagine why you were that size when you were born then. Wow. A little bit lost, lost for words to be honest. That's, I didn't realise that the babies could be born sort of that early. It's kind of interesting. Yeah, it's very, very interesting. I imagine that your parents were quite concerned. Yeah, I mean that was a rare case because my mum got preeclampsia. Yeah, right. From keeping me in her, in a room. So that's why I came out early. Yeah, because of preeclampsia, did you say? I suppose it would be really good to, because we're not necessarily doing like a a medical kind of base podcast. It's very much based on your lived experience, trying to understand a little bit more about your world and the things that you do and the difficulties and perhaps some of the positives. So what kind of cerebral palsy do you have and what kind of things happen due to that? Discletics cerebral palsy, otherwise known as dystonia. So my moments tend to be erratic and quick. So that's for a few interesting moments for that. Yes, I don't have cerebral palsy myself, but I know that like from my experience, you know, I have like kind of like motor tics sometimes when I'm particularly anxious and sometimes even verbal tics at times. I haven't been diagnosed with Tourette syndrome because it's not consistent enough, but I definitely experience those. Are you meaning interesting in sort of like the social experiences that you have? Yes, and just everything in general, really, because I can't control them most of the time. So I've had a few instances where I've grabbed something and I couldn't let go because this hand just locks onto things. So yeah, fun. And then other times I've had instances where my jaw is locked and stuff and I've been able to communicate, of course, it's very annoying. But I make do with what I have, which is a phone and iPad. So I kind of like forgot ways to go through it. From sort of the Oxford dictionary, generally it says that dystonia is a state of sort of abnormal muscle tone resulting in muscular spasms and abnormal posture. Like I imagine that if like if you have like a very strong muscle tone that sometimes like situations like that might might happen where you can't like let go of stuff. So like so is it kind of like rigid feeling? Like always just kind of yeah. Yeah, I mean before the deep face simulation I couldn't even open my hand on this side so that was, but now I can. So yeah. It sounds like you probably have to have a lot of kind of adjustments in sort of daily living, sort of maybe related to like writing or like using things in life and I can't write so I use like computers and technology to help me do my work at college in different places. Very interesting when you're saying about like not being able to kind of communicate because your jaw is sort of locked up. Autistic people sometimes experience something called like an autistic shutdown or like selective mutism where we can't particularly sort of communicate and speak and yeah exactly. What kind of like impact does that have on like your sort of social life in it in a sense like is it regular? Yeah sometimes at college it can happen two or three times a day sometimes so like it just kind of like lock in, I can't make sounds but I can't form words. Yeah, okay it kind of happened there. Yes. So that's what happened I, I, yeah, okay. Like what do you usually do in situations like that? I usually get my notes up on my phone and just say my jaw is locked. Could you, could you massage it? Because massaging it helps get to unlock. Interesting that's then also something that I do when I've gone mute or I'm having a shutdown as well so we're relating on sort of different reasons I suppose for not being able to communicate. It can be a bit irritating sometimes when people don't understand like they think you're being rude you know. I've had a few experiences like that and it's quite stressful as well but when you, when you can't communicate and because you want to when you want to try and tell people that you can't communicate but you can't because you can't communicate. Yeah. Especially if you don't know people very well. It's a little bit easy when people know you and know that it's something that happens but it leads to some difficult situations sort of out in the public sometimes. Yeah it does, but I, I normally have someone with me that knows so like they can communicate for me. Is that like a supporter or is that, yeah? I have one, in college I have one to one and then Fridays I have a PA. Interesting and how is, how is that for you do you find them to be? What kind of stuff do they help you with? They help me with like daily tasks like going into the community and buying stuff that I need and college they help me with my work and like writing because I can't write so yeah. That's um weirdly something as well with me I actually had to get some reasonable adjustments at school because examiners couldn't read my handwriting. I have like, I have like a bump on one of my fingers. I think it's kind of disappeared now just to a certain extent. I've got like a bump on my finger because I can't because I'm very heavy-handed. I can't like, like I always break like the pencil and stuff like that. Yeah so I had like pretty much all of my exams I used like a computer and things of that nature. I suppose like it would be cool to sort of dive into sort of your sort of experiences. I was thinking we could cover stuff around sort of school and education and we could perhaps move into healthcare. Perhaps talk about a little bit about kind of like the government and also I think something that a lot of people would be interested in hearing about would be like things related to your horse riding and your dancing and stuff. Yeah so I suppose starting starting at the beginning I mean what has been your experience and how has it differed due to having cerebral palsy sort of in the school and education system? You can swear if you like. That made me kind of like on edge. What do you mean they didn't treat you right? Like what were they specifically? I was here all that every day for like two years. Really? Yeah I remember all that. I didn't get the equipment that I needed. That's telling my age, CP and stuff. Educational health plan. I had the physical, on my last year I just got shut out from college, no fun. Yeah from college all together. That sounds really tough. As myself as sort of an autistic kind of adult particularly, to be understood in many settings in life even, particularly when it comes to like doctors. I experience this kind of thing called infantilization. Have you heard of infantilization before? It's basically where people treat you as like a child or an infant even though you're an adult. You've heard that. It's kind of like usually related to like disabilities in particular. Yeah I've had it on many occasions and just to name a few I've had it in school mainly. So like I was treating like I wasn't good enough for like the school or whatever. Was this a mainstream school or? No, a special school, but a mainstream setting. Right. But it was just horrendous. You'd think that people or teachers or schools which sort of are catered for people with differences like cerebral palsy or autism or anything like that that they would have a little bit more sensitivity when it comes to treating people. You think just my movements, I got, I got told I was faking it most of the time. Really? When I wasn't, yeah that was a big thing that I got told I was faking it and like that I was putting it on. When I wasn't I couldn't control it. That sounds awful. I know that some people in the community kind of around autism experience that online. I think there's been a couple of occasions where people of like, I mean people very much, they either question, they usually question whether I'm autistic or not because obviously they're sort of exposure to autism or their understanding of autism is particularly like ESD to and free individuals who have more sort of visible kind of traits and needs and things of that nature. So a lot of the time if I was to sort of self advocate or to basically like tell people why I was acting a certain way and what I needed, sometimes they would kind of dismiss it as not really being that important. Actually know someone with autism, I know two people who have autism and one of them is high functioning autism. Hmm, is that ESD one? So that, I do get that in a way. So, do you find that you get on with them? Yeah, to a certain degree. Yeah, what do you mean to a certain degree? His behaviour can sometimes be a pain in the arse. It is what it is. Yeah, everyone's very different aren't they? Yeah. No people with two people with the same sort of neurodivergency or disability are going to be the same. Yeah. Everyone's got their own personality and things of that nature. And that's what I found with the two people that I know with autism. Very interesting. I suppose to start talking on sort of other people like, have you found that it's been sort of more difficult to sort of navigate social relationships or is it something that's not too clear too hard for you? It is something because I can't go out by myself. I have to have someone with me all the time in case I fall over. Yeah. So that is health being shoved in your house most of the time. It can be quite isolating and lonely, but that's why I have a PA and I go to college to get me out of the house and to meet people. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry to hear that. I mean, is it something that's going to be sort of a lifelong thing that you're always going to have to have a sort of PA around you or is it? Yep, probably because of the risk of falling, I think it will be a lifelong thing because I can just be a fine woman and on the ground the next. Yeah. It can just be like that in like a split second. Well, I can definitely, I can relate somewhat to the experience of being sort of indoors and isolated, but I think for the most of it, it's usually my own doing, you know, sometimes the comfort of home and sort of the lack of sort of difficult sensory and social things make sort of being at home quite comfortable to me, but I definitely see sort of in the long run, if I don't get myself out and go to like the gym or I don't try to make an effort. So go outside and socialize that it does sometimes have a pretty sort of significant effect on my mental health. I think it's something that a lot of autistic people experience, particularly related to like isolation and loneliness. There can be a lot of sort of judgmental people out there. And it can also relate to cerebral palsy as well because social anxiety is quite common for people with cerebral palsy because they can feel like they're being judged and watched and stuff for their movements. And I actually suffer from social anxiety myself and because of that I'm on medication for it. Is that like, because I imagine that, you know, humans being as they do, like whether it's people with sort of physical disabilities or whether it's like an autistic person sort of stimming, you know, doing those very sort of repetitive kind of regulating behaviors, you know, people tend to sort of pick out and look at things that are sort of different that they don't see very often. Like for those people it's something that only happens like pretty infrequently but for people with disabilities or people who do quite kind of stim in the open I think like it can be quite sort of a burden sometimes like it can feel very sort of paranoia inducing I imagine. Same with same with physical disabilities because you feel like you're being watched 24-7 when you grow up and just trying to make more awareness of it because I just want to get the word out there that we are human beings and we want to be treated as equals and not as some like disabled stupid person because we are not stupid. We aren't quite hungry even though our bodies don't allow us to be. It's kind of like people kind of make assumptions based on how you sort of appear in your body but don't necessarily kind of think about, you know, necessarily that that might be quite different when it comes to like who you are sort of inside in your brain and yes, yes. What about sort of your experiences with healthcare? Like have you found that because I imagine that you probably have gone through quite a significant amount of like physiotherapy and I know at the start you were talking about that sort of that brain sort of stimulation device that you were talking about. How is all that for you? See what I've got about like up until the age of like five, six, I did a physio and then I kind of got like cut off because there wasn't much else they could do for me. Yes. And then at age 11 I got given the opportunity to do like a research project with with less basically a hospital got some funding to do to do research with people who who have more control over their dystonia than others. Yes. And they got to see how it would affect them. So I got chosen out of a few people and I got and I got given the surgery like seven years ago now. Yeah. Quite traumatic because they were operating on my brain and on my like audience stuff. Yeah. But I am glad that I did it because that's what I said before. I couldn't open my right hand whatsoever but now I can fully open it. I can use it sometimes. That's because of that device. Yes. Wow. I can't go through airport scanners. Because of the odd. You're a cyborg. You can't. You know, talking more about like the social element of healthcare. How do you experience some medical professionals? What are they like? Not bad. I've had a few sketchy ones but quite from where it's probably too bad. Yeah. I come across some some some ones. I come across some professionals who are who are very sort of nice and open and they actually listen to me and they don't finalize me but in my experience a lot of medical professionals are not not the best when it comes to autism. Yeah. And I'm like with cerebral palsy you after a certain age there's not much else they can do for you because they've done all that they can because of just how tight your muscles can get sometimes. Do you have to use medication for cerebral palsy? No. In some cases you do and in other cases you can use Botox. Yeah because Botox is like botulinum toxin, isn't it? Sort of kills the nerve signals. Interesting. I've had Botox in my... Yeah. You're a little bit too young. You're a little bit young to have Botox, Emma. Yeah. I don't think you need it yet. I had it. I had it when I was like 50, I think, would be cool and I'll shoot home and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's making a joke. So I was like 9, 10, I think. That's very young. What about your experiences of like horse riding and dancing? Because I know in the podcast that we did for NDTI I expressed that I found sort of horse riding to be pretty anxiety-provoking. I don't really find many things to be anxiety-provoking but when it comes to being on top of animals that is just like something else. Okay. I'll go skydiving and jump off cliffs and stuff but like horse riding is something else. How do you sort of... How do you get into horse riding? What's been your experiences of it? I got introduced to my auntie's horses from her age and she was kind of like the person who got me into horses and then I went to a stable in down near where I was and that's when I realized that I wanted to do horse riding and I've been riding for 11 to 12 years now. Wow. And I was probably like 20, maybe 30 to 32 because she does think... Wow. Yes, 35 or so I think over the past 11 years. Congratulations. Thank you. And I've met her royal highness from the dance. Wow. Yes, because she's the investor for the RDA. Is that the society that sort of funds the horse riding program? Yeah. It's running for the disabled basically. And yes. That is awesome. Do you find it quite easy? Because you've been doing it for like 11, 12 years I imagine that you're pretty adept at horse riding at this point. Yeah, kind of. I still get choked off sometimes. Oh dear. Yeah, I'd be terrified of that. That's the fun of it. Yeah, bit of adrenaline. What are some of your tips and tricks to living with cerebral palsy that you could share with us? For us individuals who don't have experience or perhaps other people who have cerebral palsy who are listening? Don't overthink it. Just just feel you and just kind of like relax sometimes because taking deep breaths can also help to relax your body and I find music helps me to relax and singing helps and dancing helps sometimes. Is that because of the does it sort of relax your muscles? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I actually sang in front of 404 people. Wow. What did you sing? Someone like you by now. Very nice. How was that experience for you? It was, yeah, a little bit. But when I think my room can stop because I'm focusing on just that. So the relaxation important, I think what you're mentioning about was sort of the breath work. I think a lot of people sort of hear like doctors or psychologists or people like that sort of highlighting breathing practices. And I think a lot of people including myself when I was younger, I kind of glossed over it a little bit. But I think it's quite hard for me to tell if something is reducing my anxiety because of my lexifemia. So I struggle to kind of notice and categorize background emotions I'm having. It's quite related to autism. I talk about it a lot. People are probably very tired of hearing about it on my YouTube channel. But yeah, I mean, it definitely does help. And when you when you sort of breathe in, it stimulates what's called your sympathetic nervous system, which is your fight and flight response. So if you like breathe sort of really fast, it tends to like increase your heart rate and things like that. But when you spend a lot more time breathing out than you do breathing in, it can have quite a good impact on your parasympathetic nervous system, which is kind of like your rest digest and relax kind of part of your central nervous system. And I actually I did a live stream recently where I did the Wim Hof. I don't know. Have you heard of Wim Hof? Not really. No, no, it's like this guy called the ice man. He does a lot of stuff related to like yeah, it is like cold water related things like running in the Arctic and like bathing in ice, icy water and stuff. It's crazy. But he also has like a breathing technique and I did one of those on the live streams. It's very interesting. I will say. Yeah, it was very panic inducing because you have to like breathe in in and out like really fast and consistently about 30 times and it makes you feel like you're gonna have like a panic attack. But then you hold it and you hold your breath for about first for a minute and then for a minute and a half. And it's you get like all these tingles and I got a bit of tinnitus from it as well, which was a bit weird. It definitely helped definitely helped. If you're in the camp, anyone out out there listening through in the camp where you're not really you can't really tell if breathing is helping you, I'd recommend trying that if it's something that you can do safely. Yep. Have you got any other tips, tips and tricks that you'd like to share? Massages. Massages or a love a massage? Yeah, so like I because of the muscle, muscle turning in my body, I find it hard to sometimes function as a, as a normal person would. So I tend to get like massages on my hands mainly, this hand in particular. Is it, is it a nice, is it a nice thing or is it painful? It's a bit of both sometimes. Yeah. It depends on how stiff it is. Yeah. I love hand massages. I think they're great. I had one in Thailand. I had a head and hand massage. It was, it was lovely. It was really nice. Yeah. It wasn't kind of medical. I would say it wasn't like sports, fit or physio related, but I imagine that's a bit more intense. So massages, yeah, definitely something else. Like, again, we're finding a lot of parallels here, but I find that particularly for myself that, you know, weekly massages definitely do help me out a lot. And I don't, I don't do it as much as I'd like to because it's not something that I can get on the NHS, but it's definitely quite helpful for like anxiety symptoms, which are kind of physical. And sometimes my body sort of craves that sort of mechanical kind of touch-based sort of input. And it's very relaxing to me. Not everybody likes it though. No. Massages, we've got breathing exercises. Any other kind of, I suppose, tips and tricks like when it comes to functioning? Like, are there any things or like social things perhaps that you'd, you'd like to share? Yeah, I think that's really interesting. I do want to ask you a question, but I do want to explain, I suppose, like the autism side a bit more before I ask. But a lot of autistic people, you might, might sort of hear in the way that I talk about myself or the way that I sort of refer to autism that I use the words autistic people rather than people with autism. I don't know if you've picked up on that. And a lot of people actually like using autistic people. Not everybody, of course, like everyone's very different and is very different sometimes, culture to culture and person to person. But personally, for me, the reason why I use that form of language is because I don't see myself as sort of separable from autism. I see it as kind of like a part of me. I suppose like what I'd really, it might be a bit of a kind of deep, perhaps, complex question and it's okay if you don't have an answer for it. But what are your thoughts on that kind of line of thinking when it comes to cerebral palsy? Do you see it as something separate to you or do you see it as part of you? I see, I see it as part of and kind of sexual. Yes, because some days it can just say you. I can control it. So it just depends on day, on day to day and like it's feeling anxious, it can take over and like make my body just Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. So it's like kind of like a shifting feelings that you have, have towards it. It's very interesting. Sometimes it can be a pain in the arse. Yeah. But then over time, I can love it. Yeah. It's like a love-hate relationship. I have one. You have a toxic relationship with cerebral palsy. Well, I suppose because we've been talking specifically about yourself. I mean, we have sort of dived into a little bit of kind of the social perceptions of others. But what are some of the biggest sort of stigmas or stereotypes of cerebral palsy that you experience and what kind of things would you like to challenge? That we can't do much for ourselves. And kind of just like stuff like that, like we are physically unable of doing stuff and like having relationships and stuff. Because I physically can't do whatever people can do. It doesn't mean that I'm not able to like say things and like try and do gestures for them. But it's just sometimes it gets on my nerves when people say you should date someone with with like the same condition. Because I don't want to date people. I mean, I was going to give it a try, but I would want someone who's not been through my kind of like experience almost. Yeah. That's interesting that he says that there is a concept related to autism called like assortative mating, where like autistic people date over autistic people naturally. And some people even sort of hold it to this kind of standard of being being sort of the ideal. You know, it's not really something that I particularly believe in myself. No, it's not something that you sort of believe in either. It's very good to hear that. I mean, I imagine that you know, due to sort of the experiences and infantilization, you know, things related to functioning, you know, maybe related to like your ability to kind of advocate for yourself might be a bit hard sometimes if you have those sort of stignas. Yeah, in particular with health care. I find that my voice isn't taken seriously sometimes. My social workers just push past me and go straight to a parent. Right. So they don't address you, they address your parents. I don't like that. No. And so if I can't address my husband and not me, it's like, hello, I'm standing, why isn't this for you? Yes. Yeah, I suppose it kind of comes from a place of being like, you know, I don't because I've had some things like that happen before, but I don't know if it always comes from a place of like, I think it can come from that place, but it doesn't always come from like a place of negativity. Like sometimes they just think that it's like the best thing to do because they're not very, they're a bit ignorant, I suppose. Yeah, and they have much experience with people like me sometimes. Hmm. And I'm not afraid to say what I want to say and like say what I think. Yes, yeah. Because of my upbringing has been kind of like doing your own way and doing my way on the highway, I say. I think it's a good, definitely a good mentality to have because some people can be very ignorant in life. Yes, especially those who don't have disabilities. Are there any other kind of stigmas or stereotypes that you'd like to challenge? That communicate for us when we have our voices because people tend to just look at us and think, oh, she's, oh, she has physical disabilities. Let's just talk for her and not actually give her a say in the matter. And like someone else who I was talking to who has self-refuse, he says that quite a lot. He's like experiences where he's had other people talk for him and stuff. Do you think that comes from what? Why do you think that happens? Like is it? Look at us and think. People will look at us and think they must be not very smart. Right. So they make an assumption about your intelligence. Yeah. Which is kind of frustrating because people assume a lot of things Yeah. Worth sleeping and stuff and it just is complicated and very, very annoying. I think people like, like in situations where that happens to me, like I think some people they just like they have good intentions usually and they want to speak for me and like stand up for me. But like by doing so, they're sort of reduce like removing my voice in a situation. You know, it's kind of like counterintuitive in a sense sometimes. Yeah. I mean, not always. I mean, there's been situations where I've had like shut downs and meltdowns and obviously like I can't communicate and it's been helpful for like my parents or my friends or my partner to help me out in that situation. But very rare. Well, it's been great to sort of hear about your experiences with cerebral palsy and also your life and kind of like the differences and the ups and downs and is there anything else that you'd you'd really like sort of get out there before we sort of round up? I would like to get out there but don't do your book by its cover. Yes. And just think about what someone else is going through and try not to do too quickly. And maybe just think for you. Think about things before you communicate them. Yes. Well, we're all human, aren't we? But we can all make little little steps to sort of improve in the way that we communicate with and treat people. So it's I'm sure that there'll be a lot of people. Sorry, that was my mind. I took you charged. Is that recharging your cerebral cortex friend? Yeah. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure and I'm sure you probably have changed a lot of people's minds on a lot of things and help people sort of hopefully sort of help people understand a bit more and some of the ways that they may think of people's cerebral palsy might be wrong. So it's been great and you're a very good speaker and you should definitely consider pursuing something which is related to speaking because I think you do really well. I mean, you're only 19, like you've got, yeah, I'm sure. Like if you really wanted to, you could definitely change some minds and perceptions around cerebral palsy. Yeah. It's been a pleasure. That is what I want to do in the future, maybe one day. In time, eh? It's quite a big thing to kind of jump to try and do. It's not the easiest, I would say. No. I just want to say thank you for having me on because I know a lot of people have wanted to do your podcast for quite a while. So I just want to say thank you for having me and for letting me share my story with your listeners. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure and I'm also very grateful to have you here. I mean, I guess some of the more sort of intimate and difficult kind of details of your life and it's been very enlightening and informative to hear about your experiences. So yeah, I mean, usually what I do with this is the podcast. I don't know if I asked you before and now I won't put this in. But do you have like a song that you really like at the moment? Or do you have a song which might be sort of related to your experiences in life with sort of cerebral palsy that you'd like to share? Hall of Fame. Hall of Fame. By the script. Because I feel like that has a really important message. Hall of Scripts. Or maybe Superhero. Hall of Script. Superhero. We'll have both of them to it. Yeah. So that's Hall of Fame by the Scripts and Superhero. By the Script. You like the Scripts then? What is it you like about them? Just the message in those two songs. Yeah. It's quite empowering for me because I just like that kind of like stuff. I like songs that project a message to people. Me too. My sort of song choice tends to be a little bit more on the sort of depressing side of life if I'm being honest. Me too. Yeah, me too. That would be a kick to me often. Like a bit of the melancholic side of life. Well it's been great and I wish you all the best with your nasal surgery. I hope that goes well for you. And if you want to share, do you want to share any links? Because I know that you've been working on that website blog that you're talking about. I will get that to you back then. Get that to me. Okay. Yeah. Well I'll put both the link to the 4080 playlist, the playlist of music from different guests that I've had on the 4080 podcast in the description. And once Emma gets the website and the blog up and running, I will put a link down to that in the description. Doesn't matter where you listen to this on. And if you have enjoyed this, please make sure to like, consider subscribing if you're on YouTube. And if you're on any of the other sort of music podcasty streaming services, please consider dropping a rate on the podcast because it really does help out getting this stuff to more people. Stay up to date with that. Obviously, subscribe, follow, do all of that stuff. And yeah, I hope you've enjoyed this episode of the 4080 podcast. And I'll see you guys later in a month when perhaps go check out my Instagram and you know, my YouTube and stuff if you want to stay up to date on a less monthly schedule. Yeah, well, it's been an absolute pleasure, Emma. And I hope you have a lovely day. And I hope you, the listener, also have a wonderful day. Bye, Emma. Bye. Thank you.