 Hello, my name is Sean Quinn. Welcome to the third edition of Heading the Fairways podcast in association with creative landscaping and letter Kenny I'm today joined by John Casey the director of Rosa Pena hotel and golf links John you're very welcome to the podcast Thank you, Sean. Glad to be here For those of you who are unaware of where Rosa Pena golf resort is John Just give me a little bit of information about the location and a bit of information on how long you've been in business in the history office So we're located and the downings kind of carry guard area. We're about 25 miles north of letter Kenny the original hotel and golf resort opened way back in May 1893 and My family bought it and my father mother bought it in April 1981 and took over the hotel So we just recently kind of very quietly celebrated 40 years at Rosa Pena So things have changed a lot down through the years So we're very fortunate that people keep coming and keep traveling to do any golf or holidays and golf holidays. So It's it helps Yeah, it's and 40 years is a fantastic milestone and we'll talk later about the the growth of the resort over the years But you know, I suppose if we look at the last two We were missing was not to mention the the challenges that you've had over the last 12 to now call it really 18 months with covers. So what's what issues of your heart and how have you overcome them? Yeah, so I suppose I'm covered had golf pretty hard The outset in March 2020 nobody pretty thought that golf itself would also close in addition to all the hospitality and businesses So golf closed at the end of March So it was a shame which was kind of an outlet for people But I suppose the government had to make decisions and make decisions fast and the hotel not opening was was very strange as well We're missing Easter. I think I went for a walk on Tremor Beach on Easter Sunday, which was very strange because it was very relaxed Easter Sunday It's normally the busiest day of the year one of the busiest days the year in the hotel and the golf courses So very different Easter for us in 2020 and obviously this year as well But I think when we opened last year we opened on the 15th of July We opened slightly later than we were allowed because there's the shuffling dates. We had a very good July August September, obviously we close around the 28th of September But we'd a very good kind of I think it was a 10-week period that we were open and this year looks very promising as well We'll open now this day week on Wednesday the 2nd of June So it's it's looking good June will be okay But July August September and early October look very busy and a lot of people interested in coming to play golf And play the three golf courses. So we're looking forward to getting open and getting getting people back to Dany Golf That's that's great news and I suppose as with a pandemic there. There are challenges Has it affected your I know you're very popular with certain parts of Europe and players coming over has that affected that? And Not really we're we do a lot of continental European business primarily from the German market We work with a couple of great German tour operators which from golf pros that send a lot of business our way and it hasn't really the demands there and There's a lot of guys still booked to come In the later end of this year and a lot of people planning for next year So I'd have a kind of a weekly call with my main German tour operator We just touch base and I update him on what's happening here He updates me on kind of the market and the guys over there. So it's working quite well Obviously not having them here last year But I think that the appetites there that we see a boom in travel whenever, you know Whenever things allow us to see that and I wouldn't be overly worried that I think you know Donnie gall being a kind of a remote and and Peaceful destination that's not overrun with traffic or tourists is definitely going to benefit us in the long run Kind of a post-covid tourism world Yeah, and golf is without doubt the safest sport out there to play in Your hotel is is due to open on the 2nd of June. I'm sure there's been a very busy period for you What kind of things have you had to do to have you upgraded the accommodation or what have you done for the reopening? So really it's just just well, obviously the big spring clean happens now But it's just really maintaining everything through the winter And a lot of there's a lot of painting decorating and things like that there It wasn't really the winter with restrictions and restrictions and building to do any kind of huge upgrades But it's just kind of a maintenance that we do we generally do little bits of work every winter to the hotel but it's just maintenance and General keeping around the hotel and everything and in tidy and in good shape and just getting ready to open next week So it's been a quiet winter from that effect, but I suppose You know October November it looked like things were gonna come and go in terms of the the seriousness of the pandemic at the time And it was you know in hindsight. It's very good We didn't kind of go into a construction project when construction was closed for most of January and February So no, we just just kept things kind of taking over and we're ready to go next week The doors open and hopefully the sun shining well It is a beautiful spot along the North Atlantic shores and you offer first-class accommodation Along with two and soon to be three fantastic golf courses Designed by James Braid and Harry Varden the old Tom Morris course is a thing of beauty With a bit of history as well. Tell me more about the course. Yeah, so the old Tom Morris links. So originally Lord Leitrim invited Tom Morris from St. Andrews over to lay out a nine-hole course There's near by a state just open carry guard and Tom Morris came over and looked at the estate looked at the gardens I think you may have laid out the course then that you could drive and they seen the coastal land the sand dunes here It was a pen and I think that Tom Morris the statement was that this is this is where to build your golf course So the golf course was was staked out at the time. It was very much You know, there's no land moving at the time was just staked out and they put teas and greens along the lower points and fairways where they could go and Though tell soon followed so then fast forward maybe 10 15 years Harry Varden was invited over to play some challenge matches with James James Braid and some other greats at the time all Tom Ball and George Duncan some of the British open winners and Harry Varden and James Braid made some revisions and a couple of years later Actually, Harry Colt was here in 1911 and he made some changes as well and took us into some of the valley holes We now play as the back end of the old Tom Morris So it's it's been an evolving golf course with some of the greats in golf and golf design And at the turn of the 20th century So we're we're delighted just to have it as it is today and to kind of maintain that this the standard of golf golf in northwestern I go Yeah, and change is that is the thing that you've you've done over a number of years and the course changed Probably dramatically in 2009. I recall years, you know years ago playing the back name when you crossed over the road What improvements did you make and who helped you to reshape the new layout? Yes, the original course played across the the main I suppose the roads were much quieter And it was laid out at the turn of the 20th century But the original course played across the road in a couple of points But we rebuilt and redid what we now play as the front nine of the old Tom Morris length the strand nine and pat Roddy laid that out Back in the mid 2000s And then we kind of reworked some of the greens with with Tom Doak and Eric Iverson and had it open for play in 2007 Or sorry 2009 so it opened at no nine after we We kind of it was an evolving nine holes and we decided then we'd stop playing the round the back holes The Coast Guard nine as we now call it so we play that as an Academy nine hole layout And we play the the old Tom Morris is all on the one side of the road And the question I always like to to ask golfers is what do you think is the toughest hole in the course? And The toughest hole I suppose the the in the index two on the front nine number six can play very tough Challenging landing area. It's not the longest hole in the golf course, but the landing area is quite tough I find it a difficult hole, but I think everybody finds finds a different hole You know, just it's a very very wind dependent here And what's downwind and into the wind and especially if the winds coming across from the water So I would say probably the sixth hole on the front lines the toughest toughest hole in the golf course Yeah, and like any links course, it's all about the wind on the day if it's a it was a calm day You're you're wondering how come I can hit a you know a drive in a nine iron and then the next day you come along You're you could be hitting two drivers. It's just that's just the beauty of golf links It measures seven thousand in yards and it really is a challenge some of the biggest names and golf have experienced the course and Rory McElroy being one of those how did that come about? Yes, we were very fortunate that Rory came and played in our scratch cup in 2005 and again in 2007 so my brother Frank and Along with con boys actually organized the initial few scratch cup events that we had we still play the scratch cup to this day It's very kind sponsorship from Noel McGinley and McGinley motors So we invited Rory along to play and 05. It was a little bit easier I think he was about 16 15 16 years old, but then we got him back again in 07 And just a few weeks before he turned pro and had that very good finish at the Dunhill and got his tour card So it was great and Shane Lowry also played in a few of those scratch cups as well back then So it's fantastic for us to be able to those guys here and the photographs of them playing the course and Rory won the event In 05 sort of his name on the trophy was fantastic So so it's when the autobiography is eventually done You can you can lay claim to you set Rory McElroy on his road to success Yeah, yeah, I remember his father came his father came in 05 and 07 with him He's a real gentleman. He came back in 07. He was just a really nice guy He's very complimentary of the whole place I mean the amount of places that Rory and his father Jerry had been between 05 and 07 But he always did a great word to say in Rossipena and I've met him once or twice since and he's just a very nice man And who's is there a course records now on? On the old course the course records actually 66 it's held by and a Kennedy and it from Stravon Unfortunately, the weather wasn't fantastic when we played those early scratch cups But but and I mean in this round of 66 really it's 500 gross was was a fantastic score off the blue tea It's not the easiest course even for those tab amateurs. It wasn't the easiest golf course either So the score in our scratch cups never, you know, it's never much below par Yeah, I I've always been over the par for a situation. They've had that so I suppose it I have to ask you What is your best score on the course? Oh? It's not great. Maybe one or two over par. It's it's on a very good day Yeah, you're a real gov and I was gonna ask my next question was was that in a good day? Was the weather good that day? Oh, that was very good every part wrapped in so moving on though in 2003 with the assistance of Pat Roddy and you created sandy hills and a fabulous course It would test any golfer it measures over. I think it's over 7,300 yards and from the back sticks What were your thoughts behind developing a second golf course? Yeah, so I mean that was kind of It opened in 2003 so a lot of the work was done in the mid to late 90s And that was really my father had the had the vision on the piece of ground that he bought back in 1981 I suppose the land that Sandy Hills is built on was very much a modern golf course that you know Needed the modern machinery to move the dirt move the sand and create the golf course. So Golf really when when when my father took over the hotel golf and golf holidays weren't the same as where they are now But as things started to develop through the 90s and you'll see like obviously the cake love I think opened around 91 and then current house opened in 2006 and lock air and open maybe sometime shortly after that So golf and golf resorts in Ireland really became popular and having the two golf courses And to kind of contrasting golf courses in the modern and the traditional really gave us, you know A great destination and when it takes so long to get here from the airport or from from different other parts of Ireland You've done a goals very much downings, especially somewhere that you drive to you don't drive past Downings, it's it's it, you know, you turn in and you turn and you drive back So having the two options and the two golf courses really kind of allowed us to create ourselves as a destination And get people to travel from all over the world and bits themselves here for three four or five days and play multiple golf courses multiple rounds Yeah, and with that there's a challenge also because from a marketing perspective You've got to try and attract as many new visitors and keep your name out there Sandy Hills definitely as put you on the mat. There's no two ways about that. It's built primarily between Sand dunes. What are the key features of some of the holes on the course? Yeah, so suppose that the main feature I would say about Sandy Hills to people that haven't seen under playing for the first Times every hole is almost its own almost stadium, you know the first hole You don't see any other holes really the second hole somewhere you get into the you know four five six You see very little golf from the hole you're playing So it's very immersive in that way that you know, whatever golf hole you're on is the only hole you're playing because it's kind of cut in Between the dunes So I think that's kind of the beauty of it Like you'll very rarely had a shot in Sandy Hills and landed another fairway And if you do you've you're very far offline So it's very much like that that it's kind of you know You're on your hole in your plane your hole and you see very little else the golf course Which is it's a pretty nice way to play because it you feel like a lot of the time the golf course Could be full could be very busy, but you feel like you're only four ball in the course Yeah, I can concur to that I haven't played it in numerous occasions the what's the main difference in between Sandy Hills and the old Tom Morris course So suppose that the feel of the front nine of the old course was trying to you know Maintain the feel of the back nine which is a very strong valley holes That you know you play along the ground and the greens at the end of the fairway But Sandy Hills is different that it's more modern and the more elevated tee boxes You know playing to fairways that ride along the crest of the dune to more elevated tape or sorry elevated green So it's very much a kind of a modern golf course as opposed to the old course Which is more low line and more traditional so while you have to land your ball on the greens a lot more in Sandy Hills You can run it up a lot more on the old Tom Morris links I suppose that would be the main kind of you know difference between the traditional and the modern You know courses that we have You just heard it there folks There's a few tips now when you play the courses in there and and John John Casey is the it's his fault if it doesn't work for you It's fair to say then it's there's two amazing courses there and they're bedded into sheep Havens Bay with we you know with phenomenal backdrops that aspire experienced golfers and golfers love what they see Then over two years ago. You started a new project on St. Patrick. So so tell me why Yeah, so back in in 2012 We were fortunate that we were able to acquire the St. Patrick's links off off Nama And we we moved forward a couple years ago and partnered with Tom dope to develop what is now the St. Patrick's links And it's it's just a really really amazing piece of ground There was two golf courses there through the 90s and early 2000s and then there was great foresight to you know Bring in Jack Nicklaus and develop it and and everything else but fortunately that the recession and the financial crash of 0708 kind of caught up with it at the wrong time Unfortunately, it kind of went by the way said it's such we were lucky then that a few years later that it was It was offered for sale and the fact that it bordered our own land It kind of made sense for us to have a look at it and to move it forward So we've been lucky to do that and instead of building two golf courses We decided that the best use of the land in conjunction with Tom would have been to create one standalone 18 as opposed to 36, you know one Hole 18 golf course big sprawling fairways, you know, that's the way he's laid it out So it's it's from our walk the other day Sean you can attest to that That's it's very much like sandy hills that you're on one hole And you feel like you're gonna people in the golf course because the whole things spread, you know 18 holes across 300 acres So that's as it is Yeah, and you just mentioned the designer Tom dope Yeah, I'm right and saying that he has five of the five courses of the best 100 in the world How did you manage to attract a name like him? Yeah, so Tom has he's some he's a fantastic track record on links and on sandy sides by the sea and Our first association with Tom came through a mutual friend a photographer called Larry Lambert who brought Tom here back in the late 2000s and as I said, he did a little bit of work on our front nine and we just kept in touch and Suppose when we bought it in 2012 Tom was still very interested. It's great opportunity for him. Tom isn't one of the architect He is an architect that designs, you know, he's six projects going co-currently He designs a small amount of golf courses, but they're generally to great acclaim on very very good sites So we were very fortunate that he was happy to come and work at St. Patrick's and build this golf course Yes, so you you started you built the the greens as the first stage and you can see straight away The thought and detail that's gone into the undulations and the black stops. They are of championship standard What are your hopes for St. Patrick's? Yeah, so I mean it's just just really getting people to to don a golf It's just another reason to get people to to our part of the world and come and stay here I mean as long as people come and they enjoy St. Patrick's enjoy the other golf courses You know, it's it's all about kind of bringing people to the area bringing people to Dunnegall and bringing them to Downing's Carygarden I mean them come stay and see the three golf courses and stay in the area really it's is our you know Long-term it'd be nice to have some some more tournaments. We've our legends event this year You know moving forward it just we have so many options now with three golf courses and a fairly concise small area So Question for you. I was asked to ask this question from from a listener When you develop a new golf course and you're ready to go who actually who agrees to stroke indexes? Yes, that's a conversation. We we've had recently basically it's kind of about identifying the Suppose the two nines are generally split one odds one even and then you look at each nine separately and pick the easiest hole And the hardest hole and generally you if you can have some agreement of those there And then you pick me with the second easiest and the second hardest And then just work back from there and you eventually get to the index in the middle So it's it's not the easiest thing in the world without the data of people playing the golf courses Obviously, we've we've re-indexed both hole tomorrow sand sandales on the basis of the club club V1 data that you would get you know after a couple of years of people playing and you know when you change holes You know a small way might build a new tee box holes can become a lot easier a lot harder But terms of the new course, it's kind of a changing thing as well You know we've indexed we lindex sin Patrick's and and see how it progresses with some some information on play and data from club V1 etc. Some of the tournaments Yeah, so some of the it may be that some of the higher indexes may be slightly reduced as as you get more data Which you mentioned there at the pleasure of walking some of the holes with you this week And I have to say my my reaction was wow. It's just it's just breathtaking. It's amazing measuring 7,000 yards There's huge greens to play into erosion bunkers the backdrop of the sand to see the dunes is is just amazing It's got championship golf written all over it. However The middle tease it becomes a dream for a handicap golfer. Tell me why Yeah, I think it'll be very fair. I mean the The fairways are very generous. I think I think sin Patrick's a lot of the challenge being the greens And I think getting to the green in two on a par four will be the hardest part of it It'll just be trying to get down in two from there. So it's definitely very very fair I mean from the back tease it'll measure maybe in around 7,000 yards, but there'd be a set of tease that 6465 and with wide fairways where most people can all hit their driver if they wish Then it's definitely very very playable for for all walks of golfer Yeah, and there there were a number of waste areas which it seems to be the new buzz on golf courses Were they particularly designed that way or is it just part of the the landscape that you built into the course? A lot of that was very much part of the landscape A lot of it was very much which part of the landscape again It was entirely Tom's decision as to where the golf course was laid out and rooted teas and greens and and he kind of He used a lot of that existing And landscape to his advantage in laying out the golf course were absolutely delighted with the result and the Feeling the look it's not not really like anything else in Ireland from that point of view that you have a lot of exposed sand And the whole feeling vibe and the wide fairways and the really undulating greens is very different anything else in Ireland It's good a real kind of feel of of that modern links golf course Just just as you say the exposed sand and some of those things it's it's very different, but it's I think people will enjoy it And one of the signature holes would be the 14th So just you know without seeing a picture of it and vision and it just tell us quickly why you know, why is that such a signature hole? Yeah, well 14th the the hole in the the solar most hole in the property and it's it's you know Your tee shot takes you right along down the right along the edge of the water So it's it's pretty spectacular. It's just it's a very nice part of the Part of the peninsula and part of the coastline. So it's it's really really different You know your your tee shot you hit towards the water and then you'll right angle into the green So I think people, you know need to see it to believe it and enjoy it and I think they will I think it'll be a real talking point after the round Yeah, I can't wait to see the index that you put on the 16th. It's the view is sensational You're hitting your tee shot with the sound of the ocean at the right hand side A good drive will leave you at well depends on how far you drive the boil the ball But certainly between 175 and 220 It's a very generous fairway, but your second shot is into a huge green A four would be a good score there, John, wouldn't it? Four would be a very good score. Yeah, it's a very wide fairway And it's almost play you feel like you're hitting off the edge of the earth. It's so downhill It's so generous to so it's a real hole that you can really stand up and hit the driver As hard as you can and as you say Sean very generous green for your second shot So I think it'll play a little bit easier than it looks At first, you know, there's a lot of a lot of landing area for your tee shot And a lot of landing area for your second shot So definitely it's it's going to be a great golf hole And I think I think people will be more concerned with the views to the The left hand side than they will with the hole in general So it's fine. The views are pretty spectacular Yeah, it might be forgiven if you hit a bad shot You at least you can look around you and say wow, this is just And the golf can only get better the scenery won't change the golf can change And as we both know when are you hoping to have the course open? Yes, the golf course will open for for for play visitor play from June 26th So it's only a few weeks now and hopefully people people come and enjoy it through the summer months Well, you heard it there folks the 26th of June and I have to say it is a must play I just want to move quickly on to the resort as a whole Is it we're going back into open competitions at the start of June? Is it your plan to have open competitions for golfers? We may we're not really sure we just see how things kind of progress with the outdoor dining and the facilities You know when you don't have the full clubhouse facilities We're not entirely sure if we will have opens immediately, but we'd like to think we'll have opens We were on a very successful open week and successful because there's so many people in the area At the start of august and we should have done our website in the coming weeks So hopefully we'll we'll we'll have our open week in august And and people come and play just a few weeks before our our big event with Paul McGinley Yeah, that's great. And you when you when I met you earlier this week you You mentioned that you're really proud yourself and being part of the community You employ up to 90 staff and peak season But you do rely on other facilities within the area and it's important that you all work together Tell me more about that Yeah, exactly. I mean, I mean Rassapena is not you know We're not like some of the resorts overseas where you go when you stay in a resort You immerse yourself in the resort It's very much about coming to Downing's carry garden experience in the the entire area I mean, ideally you'd come here stay four or five nights and play the three golf courses and But but a couple of dinners in the hotel and maybe go out. There's some fantastic restaurants locally There's the you know, the the Fisk obviously at the harbour bar the pizzeria Cairn Sweeney Top chef who's from here who worked in Dublin for for a long number of years and also in England Has now taken over at the Glen barn. He's he's an excellent chef That's just really exciting to see what's going to happen there And it's going to be a great addition to us because it's it's getting people here and having them getting them to stay here And getting them to come back is all about their experience of the area It's not really about their experience of the hotel We want them to come and feel like they're coming to Downing's and Dunnegall and not just coming to Rassapena You know, so it's it's we do a lot of booking of other golf courses for for continental groups And even American groups that are staying in the hotel And it's all about coming to the area and and now it's the third golf course and even before now We're very keen that people will come and stay in other places in the area You know, some people like self catering some people want to stay in the other hotels Some people might stay in Dunne Fannay or or Rathmullen But you know, we've three golf courses even awful lot of tea times to sell So it's all about getting them to this part of the the world and then everybody benefiting from their visit Yeah, and and folks if if you haven't been then 2021 from June is the time to come to Dunnegall and we normally have our A bit of a summer in May. We didn't have it this year. So I think June July and August is just going to be um Costi del Dunnegall and uh, it's the it's the best place for golf and and really I agree with you, John Um, three days isn't enough now. I think a week is is a perfect time Come and enjoy what we have for hospitality wise Uh, it'll be a great experience. Um, I'm I'm I'm going to be joined now also coming in today as is Michael McGeady He was a teaching pro I'm playing professional and evolved golfing Uh, hello, Michael. How are you? Very well, Sean. How are you? Hello, John? Michael, how are you? You you uh, you look like you're a man on the way to work. Are you coming from work or what are you? What are you doing there? I'm between lessons here at the manager and um, I've had to come to a quiet place, which is the car Um, it's very noisy on there. A lot of balls getting dispensed out there and people having shots So I just thought I would uh, I come to a quiet place so you could hear me Very good right now. We'll hear you loud and clear and you're very welcome Um, you've been back a few weeks now, Michael. Um, bad habits have returned. Um What's the main things that golfers are coming to you? What's what are they trying to fix? Yeah, I suppose um, the sequencing and the the ability to strike the golf ball a lot of people are sort of really their timings out and um, I would include myself in that as well. Um, definitely like, you know, I'm having a lot of problems with people striking the golf ball. So it's really going back to some of the basics and trying to just work on the initial strike And the centerness of the club face. Uh, I'm taking it from there Yeah, um, it's a very valid point. John, what about yourself? You've come back playing golf like ourselves. You hadn't, you know, I weren't allowed to play for two or three months. Um, what's uh, any issues you've had in your game? What do you need fixed or Yeah, it's just it's actually just a pleasure to be out. I was not worried about what score I was shooting for the first couple of weeks. It was just nice to be back in the golf course but I suppose like that now you're kind of beginning to get a bit more competitive and as we get into June, there'll be some interclub matches. So yeah, definitely. I think I think everybody's game is a little bit rusty, but I think everybody's enjoying it. So definitely maybe I should should book in for a lesson and try and get ready for the summer. I was actually making a few of those calls to uh, for the interclub and um, I think there's a few people need to come and see you Michael because they're crying off saying I'm just I'm just not hitting the ball as well as I should be. I'm doing this wrong and doing that wrong. Um, Michael, a question somebody asked me last week. What is the difference between say a scratch golfer and a good club? Say a 12 handicapper. What's the difference? Um, well generally speaking, you'd probably find that um, the scratch golfer would definitely have a lot more, you know, better coordination than the ability to get the club onto the golf ball much easier. Um, I'm not going to say like, and then I suppose they're probably going to be a little bit more productive around the greens, but that's not to say I played a lot like 12 handicappers or they're a bit of, you know, very handy around the greens. So um, yeah, I think I think the general difference you could find is probably they've come from a sporting background and they've got that the fundamentals and the movement skills that that gives them the coordination to hit the golf ball. Just a little bit more with freedom. I'm not thinking about it so much, you know. Yeah, I should have asked you earlier as well, John, what are you playing off? I pay off six at the minute, six handicappers. Serious golfers. So this next question actually could be open to both of you at the level of golf that you play and you teach. How important is actually chipping to your game and how much, you know, how many shots can you actually save? Um, right. Well, I suppose just fairly recently I've been doing a short game lessons there and we don't, we don't have a competition at the end of the session and it's a little game called par 18, which I've learned to sort of add on to my suppose my practice and the game sort of, it adds a little bit of the competitive element to it. So it puts pressure on the actual shot and the finishing out of the shot. Um, so I was playing, uh, the client that was coming on for the lesson. So I took him on and says, right, we'll play and see how we can do here. Um, score wise. Um, so the purpose of the game, if you chip the shot and you hold out, it's a par. So it's, it's, it's class as a par, par two, up and down. Um, so we do this nine times and that's why the game's called par 18. Um, so the idea is to try and obviously get as close to 18 or better if you can. That would be very, very productive. Um, so the sort of answer your question, like this guy is a good player, plays of a sort of mid to sort of like he's a mid handicapper as far as like category one, just just coming out of category one and maybe going on the category two, sort of six, seven handicapped sort of that, that, that number. Um, not trying to give away too many secrets who he is here because he won't be having me saying this story, but the answer your question, like he's been, he's been playing quite a bit of golf on his games fairly sharp and he ended up going around and, um, third 31, no, sorry, 29, he went over in 20, 29. So he didn't get up and down enough times where I was, uh, I think I was 21. So I was three over for it, which is like, I was happy with that. Um, but it really puts an onus or a, um, about a pressure under your actual short game. So it's, it's, it's a great way to measure yourself against like a scratch handicap versus a 12 on the cover. Yeah. My, my fear is it could be a 36 whole game for me now. Uh, what about your short game, John? What can the shape is it? Anybody, anybody listening to this is going to think it's a setup. Um, my short game is talking. I had one lesson with Michael about two or three years ago. It was entirely on chipping. I'm very poor in the greens. I would be very happy to shoot 36 on that, uh, on that par 18. It's, it's just not very good. So, um, it's something I need to work on. I'm one of these players that might take the putter from 10 and 10 yards off the green movie further just to, to, to get rid of the, you know, to take out the, the element of doubt in the bad chip. So, um, it's, it's an area of mind game that needs a little bit of work, Sean. Well, you know where to go. If you need to help, it's, uh, a little bit like going to the dentist. You don't like to admit you've got the pain until you get there. But, uh, Michael, just, I want to talk about Michael, the golfer. Um, competitions are opening shortly. Um, have you plans to play tournaments this year? Uh, yeah, I do plan to play in the, the Irish region. It's a pro am circuit throughout Ireland. Um, and it certainly is, there's a schedule up there now for those events. And I've been looking and, uh, I've been sort of putting a few things into the diary. So I do plan to play a few events. Um, there's actually a challenge for event on this weekend in, um, Port Marnick, which I probably, if I had have, um, put a request on the plane, and I probably might have got playing, but to be honest, my game's just not sharp enough. And I don't feel it'll be worth going to it, you know, and hoping I would rather be going there to sort of fairly prepared and I'm playing a little bit better. Um, but as far as, uh, the tournaments in Ireland or the Irish region events as, um, I think that's going to be starting in the first week of July. So I've got about a time now to try and get my game and the, and the, some kind of shape, um, uh, sort of freed up a couple of days there where I can, I can, I can get about a practice and, and, and get it on there by the shape, you know. So hopefully. Yeah, you can answer my next question because I would have imagined that you would have to practice rigorously before you, you enter a competition, you know, what, what is, is it, do you, do you go intensive trial practice for two weeks beforehand or what, what is the norm for a competition? Um, well, that's like, well, if you're asking me as a player and only being a player, um, concentrating on playing tournaments, I would have treated my, my week as 95 practice. So I would have started at nine o'clock in the morning. I would have maybe had a lesson or I would have went and worked on a short game. I would have been working on things that maybe I had been told in a previous lesson. Um, so I was always using that time wisely and like, I would have traveled through Donegal, like I would have come up to Rossopena quite a bit then the Casey family were always very generous, you know, um, letting me use their facilities up there. So, um, you know, places like, like, like Rossopena and stuff like that were great, great places for, um, you know, you could just go up there for the day and you could spend your day wisely. So you went up and you maybe done a few hours putting, you went and done about an hour's chipping and then you went and had some balls in the rain. So yeah, it's at the minute now, but the answer to your question for me getting ready for the pro am, I'll just try and maybe hit golf balls maybe for a few hours, the days that I don't teach. I'll try and maybe get a few nine holes and a few 18 holes and then from that, um, hopefully the mid game will be in some kind of shape to play. And hopefully as you get back now, you will be as successful in 2021 as you were in 2019. And we wish you the best for that and continue success. John, I want to come back to you for a second because, uh, there's something really exciting going to happen. Um, it's been announced that you will be the host of the Irish legends this year. Um, it's a number of years since this tournament was played. Um, how did you come about this? Yeah, we have the Irish legends hosted by Paul McGinley, um, the third week of August. So we, we were very fortunate that the, uh, the legends tour actually this what was called the stay sure tour at the time when they reached out, they, they made contact and kind of through a meeting with themselves and Paul, and they were happy that we would host the event. Um, it was actually supposed to be on last year, but the entire legends tour was, was postponed as a result of the COVID pandemic. So we're very fortunate that, uh, we're in a position to hold it this year and Paul wanted to play it on the old links. He kind of grew up playing the old links. So, uh, he wanted to play it on that and we're really looking forward to having the, the tour come and visit. It'll be our kind of first major kind of professional tournament as such. We had the Irish open qualifier for the terrific Irish open that was played in Ballela from a couple of years ago. I think Michael played in that and, uh, it was a great event, but we're really looking forward to having a kind of a three day event this year and the pro am and everything that comes with the, uh, the legends tour. Now, although Michael is a legend, I think, uh, age wise, he might have just hit that bracket yet, but that'd be fair. I'm a good bit away from that now. Thanks very much for asking. It's great to have Paul McGinney, um, hosting the tournament. Um, how, what's the format for the, for the three days? Yeah. So it's, they play it now as an alliance format. So there's 60 professionals and then there's 30 alliance players. So the alliance are essentially amateurs that come to, to play in the event. They're kind of part of the series and part of the legends tour. So it's two professionals and one amateur on Friday, Saturday, Sunday. There's no cut. And it's just a low score ones after three days and they live a couple of pro ams on the Wednesday and Thursday beforehand. They have a standard program on the Wednesday and then they have what they call their celebrity pro am on the Thursday of tournament week. And there's some celebrities, uh, seemingly, or there's some celebrities signed up to play in that. Yeah, Michael, isn't that great? What are your thoughts on, uh, the Rosa Penna managing to attract such a great tournament? Oh, it's great. It's, well, it's no surprise to be honest because it's such a wonderful, facility and, uh, setting for, for golf courses. Like, you know, it's just a beautiful place. I, I love getting down to it just due to the, the situation over the last sort of 12 months or 13 months with COVID and stuff. It's been very hard. And, um, any golf that I did get played was normally just any, any pro ams that were available last year. But no, it's great for, I'm delighted to see it going there. Um, and as I said, as, as John said, we did have the, the Irish open qualifier there back in 2000 and 2012, 2012. So like it's a phenomenal, it's a phenomenal place. Like, you know, I love coming there to play and I always seem to play well around it. Unfortunately, I didn't play well for the Irish open qualifier. Um, I had a bit of a nightmare in one hole and it cost me, it cost me the qualification. But anyway, um, I still, I don't hold any grudges. I still love it. And I love coming to play it. It's probably cause you were chipping the ball instead of putting the ball. John, you mentioned there, um, I'd have to tease this one out. I'm not sure if you're aware, but are there any of, uh, any names you can maybe sneak out to say who can we expect to see on the fairways or celebrities or professionals or names to, to, of, uh, stature? I don't, I'm afraid of the minute. Um, obviously Paul himself will play in the event, but, um, in terms of, of who's confirmed, I'm not exactly sure. I know that the celebrity pro-am and they've, they've a legend series as part of the pro-am and they've a legend series as part of the actual event. So there's, there hopefully will be some very high profile names and the legends tour, um, on the actual tour that will make their way to Rossipen and play and also in their, in their pro-am. So between the two, I think there'll be some familiar faces that people can come and see and enjoy it. Yeah. And it really is a great showcase for you guys and the future does really look bright for you. I have this, this kind of vision of a St Andrews links type competition where you've got three phenomenal golf courses. And, and, you know, the more people that find out about what you can offer, I think you're, you're just going down a road that's just going to get better and better. The tournament runs from the Friday the 20th of August to Sunday the 22nd. Um, is it, will it be open for spectators, John? Uh, I don't, I don't really know at the moment. It's probably looking unlikely. It just really depends on what, what happens in the, in the interim with the virus and, and how the area is open proper. I'm not really sure that's again a decision for the, the legends tour. Um, they'll make it. I really don't know, unfortunately, but hopefully, hopefully it's, uh, hopefully they can, some can come and attend, but, but we'll see, we'll just have to wait and see. Yeah. If, if restrictions permit them, but what we can do is we will certainly from, uh, from a radio station point of view, we will keep people, um, uh, up to date with, with information there and, you know, come back to us and let us know of any updates that you have going forward. Um, because it's, it's, it would be a great opportunity for people to, to, to go out and please God, the weather is favorable to us over those days. Um, and, and we can all enjoy, uh, a luxury of, of fantastic golfers, um, in, in Donegal. Um, before I, I finish up, uh, John, how do people get in touch for Rosapena? What's, if they want to book off, um, what do they need to do? Yeah. So I mean, just really on our website, it's the best option. Um, our website is www.rosapena.ie or alternatively you can send us an email at golf at Rosapena.ie and just give us a call or send us an email and we'd be delighted to have you come and play golf at any of the three courses through the summer. And Michael, I have to extend that to you as well. Um, if people are looking for, for a lesson on the, they go out today and they have an absolute nightmare and they say, I'll have to talk to that man. So how do they get in touch with you? Yeah, just get me through my Evolve golf coaching page on Facebook. Um, or if they call the, the driving range here at Letter Kenny, um, they'll be able to get my, my details that way. Um, there's, there's no, there's no issue getting, uh, getting in touch. There's no problem through Facebook. I always get the messages. So good way to get it. And, and, and good, good investment in, uh, in your golf. Um, unfortunately we've come to, we've come to the end. It's, it's flowing. Uh, again, I'd like to thank John Casey from Rosa Penna golf resort. Um, and I would like to wish you well over the coming months and weeks. Um, and as you open up some Patrick's and, uh, the exciting summer that you have. Um, also to Michael McGeary of Evolve golf coaching, uh, for some great tips. Uh, I'll try them this weekend. And finally, thanks to my sponsor today, Creative Landscaping Works in Letter Kenny. Um, they helped to create golf courses in your home. Check them out on creativelandscapings.com from me, Sean Quinn. Enjoy your golf on week. And remember, keep it on the fairway. Thank you. Thanks. So