 Hi, I'm Dr. Phil Percanti, the Director of the U.S. Army Combat Capabilities Development Commands Army Research Laboratory. I think we should start by telling folks that the Army has a corporate research laboratory. Its mission is to do disruptive research for the long term. We are mostly responsible for thinking about technology beyond 2035. And so what science, what research has to be done to affect disruptive warfighting capability in the long term. That's the Army Research Laboratory's primary mission. So we have a collection of some very talented folks here, about 2,600 people. As a corporate research laboratory, we have some 55 percent of our research staff are at the Ph.D. level. And we're doing fundamental research. I define fundamental research as research that is basic and applied, but leads to a disruption. And that disruption is a way to think about research that changes ideas, or leads to new ideas, that changes the way people think about scientific paradigms, that changes the way people think about warfighting ultimately because our customers are our soldiers. So how do we take the science and the technology that we work on and use it either to change the way people think about science, as I said, change scientific paradigms, or change the way we think about warfare. That's the intent of doing disruptive research. So new ideas, new innovation, new science that ultimately leads to changes in the way we fight and we protect our soldiers and ultimately win our nation's wars. That's IRL's fundamental mission. Secondly, we're the Army's face to the worldwide academic community. We have our Open Campus Initiative, and we have our Army Research Office, both of which are really the external face to the worldwide academic community. And the reason we're so involved with the academic community for the Army is we want to bring the best and brightest in the university systems across the country and internationally to come and work with us and invite them to come and work with us on Army problems, to solve Army-specific problems. It's with encouragement from our staff in collaboration and partnership through our staff on our extramural activities that we have these engagements and we vector folks who perhaps ordinarily wouldn't want to think about Army problems into our space. These problems are so complex that it requires a multidisciplinary approach and it requires diversity of thought. All of that is driven by our ability to work with the external academic community. So that's a very important piece of what we do. And then lastly, as the Corporate Laboratory, we are now responsible for bringing together science and technology and warfighting concepts, the development of concepts early on, which is very, very important. When you think about new ways of fighting, how do the Army of the Future is going to look based on technology? What you want to do to be successful is have conversations between soldiers and scientists at the very beginning so that we can both have an understanding of what the technology can do, what the future of that technology will look like, and then how is that implemented in a warfighting scenario? How will that really change what the Army looks like? How will it affect the architecture of the Army? How will it affect the kit that soldiers bring into the battlefield? Those conversations we want to have early, and so that's the third piece of our mission is to work with the Army Futures Command Futures and Concepts Center to bring S&T and concepts requirements together. So that's kind of who we are today. This is a collaborative environment, and to collaborate you have to understand where people are coming from, what they think is important, what their language is. Oftentimes we use the same words, depending upon where you're from, those words have different meanings. So getting together with people and communicating on as many different levels as possible is the intent here. So however we can use this to reach a wide audience, this is just one avenue for that because that's our intent is to make sure that people understand our mission, the problems we're trying to solve, and I'm here with Megan Small this morning. Megan, why don't you introduce yourself? Yeah, absolutely, thank you. I'm a research chemist in the biotechnology branch of the Sensors and Electron Devices Directorate. What do you do, Megan? Yeah, so I'm a part of the living materials program, also part of the transformational synthetic biology ERP. ERP, so that's one of ARL's essential research programs, which is one of our top priority programs. We do many things across the laboratory. We have a wide swath of technology that we have to do research on for the Army because we're into everything. It's very important for us to have a set of programs that are focused in our priority. So synthetic biology is becoming one of those areas where there's more and more interest from an Army science perspective, but not so much from an Army modernization perspective because it's such an emerging area. I think most of the folks on the uniform side don't really understand just yet what the implications are for synthetic biology from a warfighting perspective. So tell me a little bit. So I'm a doubly, actually. My PhD is in electrical computer engineering. Not that I do research anymore, but when I first got to SED, I looked at those schematics, those biological schematics. It was nothing but confusion in my mind. So it took me a little while to understand some of what synthetic biology is, but give me a few minutes on synthetic biology. We're taking bacterial cells or fungal cells, taking biology and we're transforming it to what we want it to do. And that's, you know, I'm on the modeling and simulation side, so I'm trying to understand the end control, with ultimate goal of control, how biological material is interacting with non-biological material. So what gets you excited about that? Yeah, so my background, actually, before I came to ARL, is in drug design. So I was all into the medical world. And when I came here, it's really exciting for me to take this skill set that I learned in that type of design toward designing now biomaterials and learning a lot in terms of how biological molecules interact with material. And it's really an emerging area, like you said. There's a lot to learn, a lot that we don't understand, I think. And so I really want to be a part of that understanding. So what do you think some of the most pressing problems are? What are the big open research questions in synthetic biology? Yeah, so how do we control biology if it can be controlled, as much as we can control it, on the time scales that we want, on the length scales that we want, and drive that toward whatever outcome that we want? That's the big, we have to answer those questions. And it's nascent, right? So do you think, where are we on a timeline? If you were to do some technology forecasting for me, when do you think we're going to see, first, to develop that understanding, and then some of the first big applications for synthetic biology? Yeah, so in terms of applications, we're already kind of seeing the beginnings of them, these self-healing types of systems, like the bioconcrete, where you use water to activate a sleeping bacteria, and that bacteria secretes the components you need for concrete. So that is an easier application, so we're kind of already there. But in terms of really self-healing, where you have the components out in the field, and they're assembling into whatever product you want, yeah, I'd say 20, 40, and beyond. OK, so we're a good 30 years, you think, probably, right? Until it becomes prolific, not only commercially, but in military applications. That's really interesting to me. I think the other question that I often have with this is, what are the surprises? So when you started, you said you were in drug discovery, right? What was the big surprise when you came from the drug world into this defense sector that you're living in today? Yes, that's a good question. I think the methods are that what surprised me was the methods are similar. You're taking these experiments or models, but the outcomes are so different. Military outcomes, protecting the soldier, making him lethal, and those types of things. It's very different from the drug design world where it's a smaller scale, I guess you could say, especially the niche that I'm in. So that surprised me a little bit. Just the scale of things, I guess. I understand that the manufacturing and the scale up of bio is an area where that company, Ginkgo Bioworks, is making great progress. What do you think about that? Do you think we're close there to really scaling up? Where we are in terms of scale up. It's so hard because it really depends on the application and the system. So the type of bacteria, for instance, modifying one bacteria versus another bacteria, it could take you a year to figure out how to engineer a particular type of bacteria. And just because biology does what it wants to do, and that's why the understanding is so important, to control it, and that's what we're working on. But yeah, scaling up, I think that we are there in terms of the scale up. The hardest part is just how do you get that first piece, the engineering. OK, so now I'm going to put you on the spot. If I had a general officer here with me, and I were to say, sir, we have a real opportunity with synthetic biology. These are some of the capabilities that we think we're going to see from synthetic biology in the future. And this is what the army is going to get from all of this investment that we're going to make in synthetic biology. And I've got Megan here to tell you exactly what that is. What would you say? I think the biggest thing is that custom materials, basically, material on demand. You have all of these components, and they could self-assemble. You trigger it a certain way, and it will assemble into whatever that you want. That's the making side. I'm also very interested in the breaking side. How do we take biology and break down materials? And that's important for not leaving a trace where we are, for instance, or in trying to impact our adversary. So the flip side of that is protection. So I think what would you say about synthetic biology from a protective materials point of view? Yeah, so I think that's very interesting because I think the biological based materials can be extremely protective, but they're not thought of that way. These materials, when they assemble together, they're very strong. Our bone, for instance, is strong. When you assemble these biological materials, and that can be a protective. It's not just a piece of metal or something like that, which is very heavy. These biological polymers can be protective for the soldier to wear. You'd also put them on vehicles. And what's cool about it is that it's not only a protective part because of the way this molecules interact with each other, but you can custom those molecules to maybe have a heat signature, or chemical signature, or mask those signatures. They're very versatile pieces. Yeah, that's very interesting. Oftentimes, I think some people when they hear synthetic biology or living materials, we talk about fungus, or we talk about the genome in some way, shape, or form, or another. People think that these things are actually alive. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, so that's kind of something even I go back and forth with what is truly alive. If a cell is in a spore form, kind of a sleeping and activated form, some people I've talked to argue that's not living. But yeah, in my mind, living materials is taking biological material. And that doesn't have to be a whole cell. It could just be the components of it, proteins, or DNA, or whatever, and embedding those onto non-biological material. And that, to me, is the living material. So does that mean that our soldiers have to worry that there are any coatings or anything we put on our future platforms? We'll have to be care and fed? No, yeah. These are not chia pets we're going to grow on. That would be cool, but no. So yeah, it depends on the time. All cells need to be fed. So if you're going to use living cells, then they will. But if you only want something for a short time, it does its job, and then it dies. And the great thing about biology it's that it's just disintegrates. You don't have to worry about something out there left that you have to go retrieve. OK. We talked at the intro about concepts and changing the way the army fights in the future. What do you think synthetic biology could be applied to? So I have a group of soldiers on the battlefield. And they have a mission that's part of what's called multi-domain operations. Where do we think the biggest benefit from synthetic biology would come from? Initially, just take a shot. What do you think about? When you're thinking about these problems and you're writing up your research results, often we talk about it in the context of how we're going to contribute to the academic literature or build on the science. But I want you to think about this from the perspective of how can we help our soldiers and how can we, again, change the way they think about warfare. So from everything you've learned today, where do we think we could put this work to help educate, inform our concept developers so that they can start to think about how the future army will look and how the future army will organize, and eventually how the future army will fight. Yeah, so I guess I think of it in terms of, so biology is so versatile. I think of a soldier now, and I think of him or her loaded down with a lot of equipment, wearing heavy gear. And I think of biology and the soldier of the future that they're not loaded down with all that stuff. They could wear armor that is light, biological cells are not as heavy as other things. And that armor has multiple functions or whatever pieces of equipment can heal themselves. So they don't have to worry about carrying extra components. Those, the living materials or synthetic biology can be used to make in terms of microbial fuel cells. So you could have a piece of equipment that is generating power that can power other devices that that soldier will carry. So I think of it in making the soldier less encumbered by all of the stuff that he or she has to wear. So synthetic biology has the potential for that. So we talked about synthetic biology like really coming to fruition in 30 or 40 years. But there are some nearer term applications that people are working on today. Can you describe anything you're doing? Yeah, so we are looking at ways that we can take existing materials and use synthetic biology to repair those materials. So while more far term is the self-assembly and self-healing of the materials, the shorter term we can take biological material and use it to fix cracks in whatever material that it is. And we are working with WMRD as well as VTD on those types of applications, cracks in the blade and things like that, or cracks in armor. Yeah, so vehicle technology directorate and the weapons and materials research directorate are two of ARL's business units. We can't underestimate the notion of using synthetic biology to do self-healing, self-assembly, materials on demand. There's a whole gamut of applications that this new science will open up. Yeah, it's funny. When I do talk to the kids, STEM stuff, all kids have cell phones and they drop, they crack the screen. I just cracked mine at the airport. And I envision where you just set it on the heating pad and the screen will just repair itself. That's what we're driving towards. And that's definitely doable, even before 2040, I think. We're just beginning to scratch the surface of what applications can make use of this, not only commercially but more importantly for the United States Army. We want to move away from science fiction to real science, science reality. Many thanks to Dr. Megan Small for joining us for what is a new podcast, ARL, what we learned today. In the upcoming episodes, we'll explore new discoveries and foundational research that will make American soldiers stronger and safer. Please consider clicking subscribe and joining us for future episodes. I'm Dr. Phil Purganti. Thanks for listening.