 Volunteer Forum. We're coming to you tonight from Burwoods, the Eight Lakeside Drive. In fact, we're coming from the State Control Centre, the redundancy site. We're here in the planning room, joined by a panel this evening to talk about some very serious subjects, but also to celebrate some of the achievements of our people. But before we kick off with tonight's agenda, I'd like to firstly acknowledge Aboriginal ants, which we're all meeting on tonight and celebrate and pay my respect to Aboriginal elders past and present and recognise the strength and resilience of Aboriginal people in this land. As always, I'm joined tonight by an esteemed panel and we have Peter Shaw, Group Officer for Knox, but you're also a board member for the CFA. Welcome, Peter. Thank you. Of course, a lady that needs no introduction, our CEO, Natalie McDonald. Welcome, Natalie. Thank you. And Dawn Hartog, Captain Extraordinaire, Deputy DGO as well, I believe, and a board member as well. Welcome, Dawn. Thank you. And Alex Batty, Commander Alex Batty, so District 14, Catchment Commander for the Mount Cottrell Group. Welcome, Alex. Pleasure to have you on the panel this evening. I'm waiting in the wings, ready to answer any of the difficult questions that the panel can't answer is our group general manager, Kylie Bates, for support services who will be joining us to contribute to tonight's discussion as well. As always, tell us where you're from. We're always interested to know where our members are watching from, contributing to the volunteer forum. So please, there's a chat function that you are able to access. Tell us where you're from. And likewise, if you have a question, any question whatsoever, as you know, we like the hard ones here on the forum. About tonight's subject material or any other matter, there are other CFA executives and senior management online waiting to answer those questions for you. And as usual, any question that we can't answer, we will endeavour to take on notice and get those answers back out to you. Tonight, we have quite an interesting agenda. We are going to be talking about some very serious issues and some issues that for some of our members may likely to cause some distress. At this point, I'd like to point out that there are the assistance of our member services, our member well-being services. So if you do feel uncomfortable at any stage throughout this evening, please, it is OK. Have a chat to someone, seek some assistance. It's a very vital and important subject we need to talk about tonight. But for some, we appreciate it will be challenging to hear and listen to what we've got to discuss. But before we get on to that topic, what I do want to do is to acknowledge some fantastic individuals in the CFA. Recently, we had the Queen's birthday long weekend. Yes, it is just more than a public holiday folks. It's a day where we acknowledge the fantastic achievement of many Australians. And CFA was no different with four fantastic members. We had Deborah Luke, Alastair Drayton, John Cohen and Richard Crum who were recognised with the Australian Fire Service Medal. So congratulations to all those individuals. They were well-deserving individuals. And it's about time that we pay some homage to those and recognise the achievements that they have. Dawn, you are the chair of the Honours and Awards Committee for the Board. So these four nominations came through the committee. Give us your reflection on, I guess, why it's important we recognise our members. Absolutely. It's actually quite a privilege to chair the Honours, Awards and Remembrance Committee. And amongst that, we clearly, one of our main features and responsibilities is the selection and the support of many, many members across the state on celebrating and recognising their achievements. So it's an absolute honour and privilege to see names such as those that you just saw on your screen there who come before us, getting to actually read the history, reading their achievements or contributions, far and wide over many years, but also quite saturated in some points too that their effect on their communities and the sector have just been incredible. We're always looking for more. We want more. And I see Deborah's name there. Absolutely. I understand. See if I got its first female AFSM only in 2008. That's correct. And, you know, it's certainly so. We've got a long way to go. We do. I guess you've got a bit of a message for people out there. I do. So whilst I want to recognise every single member and the contributions that they provide, we know that we are significantly underrepresented in women across this amazing organisation. And I know for a fact that there are some truly, truly inspirational and truly worthy and deserving women members out there that I would love to see those names come across to the committee. So I would say get out there, support them, pop in those applications because we're ready for them. Excellent. And Peter, you're also on the Honours and Awards and Remembrance Committee with Dawn and myself. What's your take? Why is it so important that the Board recognises the achievement of our members? Look, a lot of our people talk about the fact that they don't necessarily need or want recognition. They're there to do the service, to the community, to the state. But it's nice to be able to give some sort of recognition to those people that put in that extra time, the extra work that they do across the organisation. It's not just centred on local areas necessarily, but across the organisation. And it's just great to be able to recognise that. Awesome. Alex, you're on the front line, mate. I am. On the ground. When members get recognised in such a way, and it's not just AFSM, it's Outstanding Service Metals, it's other award types. What does it do for morale? What does it do for the Brigades out in the field? Absolutely. Look, recognition in this sort of form is so important. And I think in particular some of the award winners from this round, they're people that have gone unspoken in the past. And I think any way that we can recognise people for the contribution that they're making over such a long period of time is extremely important. And I think, Dawn and Peter, it's fair to say one of the biggest challenges and frustrations we have as members of that committee is probably the lack of nominations. Absolutely. Like female nominations, but more broadly the lack of nominations. And I guess what can we do? And Alex, from your perspective, I guess, what's your advice in terms of trying to encourage people to, if they see something or they know something that's happened, you know what, that person is really deserving of something special. How can members go about bringing that to our attention? Spot on. And we don't do enough of it. I really encourage people to get out there, have a look at the awards program online, get in touch with your catchment commander, get in touch with your district, put people forward. There's a whole range of ways that we can recognise people. And we need to do it. Yeah. Natalie, it's not all tanks, bombs and airplanes. Yeah, there are. There is a whole other part of CFA. We do the awards system is actually open to all our members, whether they be operational, non operational, you know, that salary door or volunteer. How important is this to recognise, you know, how our administration staff and management? Oh, it's it's absolutely critical. I think the probably the first thing to say is that around 40% of our administrative staff are also volunteers. So there's a real crossover. And I think if there's one message probably coming out of tonight on a number of fronts, it's that we are all CFA. It takes a broad church to do the to do the work of CFA. It takes the support. It takes the volunteers. It takes the operational expertise and skill as well. And it's pretty critical that we recognise that as a whole. I think there is more to be done in terms of recognising some of the work that our administrative and professional staff do. And it is something we'll be looking at over the next next period of time. But in the meantime, the opportunity to take advantage of the awards system that we do have. And I know you're all looking at how we pull that together and make that more coherent. But to recognise the work that everyone in CFA does, no matter what their role, no matter what their employment relationship is, is really important as we move forward. It's phenomenal the work of the people of CFA and the opportunities to recognise that are there. It's now how we take advantage of that. Absolutely. We've got some really hard working and dedicated men and women employed by the CFA right across this state. So if you do know someone from the District Officer area that want to recognise, absolutely put that forward. Peter, your thoughts? I just wanted to put forward in my district, we just recently ran a awards and how to initiate awards. And we ran a program at the district that involved every brigade in the district, where we had Belinda Gillespie from the Honours and Awards Office come along and do a presentation. And it was about how to go about submitting awards recognition programs. And I think we got pretty good feedback. I think we had most, if not all of the brigades from the district involved. And it gave them a heads up and an insight. Not recommend that to any other district to look at how to present, not the awards themselves, but how to present their work to put into asking for the awards or seeking recognition. Thank you, Peter. So as I said, if you do know a deserving CFA member that you want to see recognised, information on how to nominate people for these awards is available on members online, or you can talk to your district office for further assistance. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to move on to, I guess, a more serious topic and why we have come together this evening. And this is to talk about in detail and answer your questions in relation to a recently released report from the CFA, our independent review into culture and issues management here. And what we propose to do now is take you through why we did the independent review, some of the key outcomes and recommendations of that review and the roadmap to what to do. We have the report now. That's the what and then it's the so what in moving forward as part of that process. So we do a bit of a slide presentation. So we'll kick that off and we'll guide you through it. As I said, we did put the member welfare and assistance number in the chat. We will be talking about some difficult subjects this evening. If you do need some assistance, please feel free to reach out or step away from the computer for a while. So why did the CFA undertake this cultural review? Why was it necessary? We're working to create a more agile, positive and transparent culture. And I think it's pretty clear by some of the communications that both Natalie and myself have been putting out that we're working very hard to ensure a renewed CFA and an error of transparency and a culture that is positive. We do recognise an experience that a lot of work has been done over the last 18 months. And we've heard from you, our members, that the experiences that some have had in respect to our complaints processes, how we deal with complaints and issues management has not been the best in the past. And that's why we've commissioned this forward-looking independent review to examine the culture, to examine the issues and looking at our organisational approaches to promoting diversity and dealing with issues of the past. Any CEO of a large corporation will tell you to change a culture and organisation takes time. It is a journey. It's like turning the Titanic around. Probably a poor choice of words there. The QE2, perhaps. Turn a large ship around. It takes time. And changing a culture of an organisation takes time. And that's one of the things that we do need to bit through, but we need to be working on that every day. From the outset, can I say, we are deeply sorry for any member, current or past, who has experienced harm or issues in the CFA through our complaints management process or having those issues brought to us in the past. And we sincerely hope by doing this report and hearing the voices of those individuals goes a long way to healing the past, but more importantly, unlocking a future to move forward for the organisation more broadly and the important people that make that up. I might ask our CEO, Natalie McDonald, now to step us through some of the key themes and highlights from that report and really talk about what that means. But before I do, as I did say that the report is enshrined with the voices of our members, the experience of our members, as it was told by them in their voice. And the other thing I just wanted to point out, that one of the review team in the engagement of to undertake that was not commissioned with investigating the veracity or the facts around or even to substantiate those experiences. It was important that we captured how people felt and how people are engaged with the service. So when you do read those comments, when you do read those experiences, it's not about whether they did or didn't happen. It's not about whether it was confirmed. It was about recognising that they were the experiences of our members and that's important to keep in the back of your mind. The full report, all 255 pages is available on members online, but if you didn't want to read the full report, and I can forgive you for not wanting to read such a volume, there is a really good 20 page summary report. If any of our members don't do anything at all, I'd really encourage you to read the summary report. It is a great snapshot of the hard work that the Helen Zocan crew have done. Natalie, did you want to take us through some of the key themes and recommendations from the report? Thanks, Jason, for that. And, you know, I do want to start out before we get right into that, is recognising that, you know, the CFA is a very large organisation and we are all part of it, some 55,000 members, and while it was very sobering and distressing to read some of the experiences people have had, it is important to remember that the vast majority of our members are absolutely, you know, working in line with community expectations and the values of the CFA. So I think it is important to recognise that and acknowledge that, but it's also important to recognise and acknowledge that some people's experiences have not been good, and that's not something we want to see going forward, and there is a journey for the CFA to work through. One of the positive things about this report, firstly, that we commissioned, so it was something that in listening to members, we wanted to understand what else the CFA can do to provide a positive and productive working environment, whatever your role is, and to make it a positive experience for all. So the report actually gives us 10 recommendations, and I'm not going to go through them in detail, I will summarise them here this evening, but they are all doable, achievable, implementable recommendations that will take us forward. So not looking backwards, but take us forward to provide a stronger CFA and it's really an important message, I think. There's a lot of positives in the report about how we can move forward. Media doesn't always pick up on the positives, we know that, but it is important, I think, that we recognise the positives there. It's also pleasing that the CFA board, and I'm sure Dawn and Peter will talk about this shortly, recognised and accepted the 10 recommendations in full, which is fantastic. The CFA is on a journey. These things, as Jason said, take time, and we'll be spending some time over the next couple of months working through which things we can do quickly, which things will take longer, and every single one of us has a role to play in addressing some of the things that the report found. So we look forward to working with you all. Now I'll just quickly go through kind of a summary of the recommendations. As Jason said, they are in a 20 page summary, which doesn't sound like a summary, but it is off a 200 page report. So the first set of recommendations are relating to the way the CFA establishes expectations of behaviours and relate to things like building the implementation plan for the five-year period, and importantly and critically, and this is a fundamental building block, really enforcing at every opportunity the values and standards of the CFA, and that's why we've talked in the past in forums about the behavioural standards. You'll hear us talk about this a lot, lot more. We will be looking to embed those behavioural standards in everything we do. The second set of themes relate to the way CFA supports leaders at all levels of the organisation to set the expectations and then manage any issues that come out of things not going as well as they could. So this is really about looking and reviewing the way CFA provides support to our ACFOs, our commanders, our brigade management teams, our group management teams, our group officers, just taking a step back and saying what are the supports we're providing and how can we make that more effective and efficient to ensure that people have the tools and the skills they need to manage in what is a very complex and large organisation. The third theme relates to the way the CFA manages complaints, grievances and issues and escalation paths and there's quite a lot in these recommendations and while there has been a fair bit of work done in the last 18 months there's still a lot more to do. So these recommendations point to the things we need to do to continue to improve the issues management, to increase avenues for conflict resolution all the way through the organisation and to continue to improve the focus on health and wellbeing and opportunities for resilience and supporting people to work through issues as they arrive, arise, sorry. The next set of themes are in relation to our overall culture supporting diversity. We've talked about this before in these forums, you'll hear us talk about it again. It is important for the future of the CFA that we increase our capacity for diversity and inclusion across all levels. This is about ensuring that we've got volunteers from all walks of life who can support their communities and our communities and that volunteers from any background feel welcome in the CFA and are able to participate to their full capacity. So there's been a lot of work done across the organisation over a period of time. Our diversity and inclusion councils are real champions of this work and their role will be critical but everybody has a role to play again in increasing diversity and inclusion at CFA. The next measure in here is around measuring cultural change. So how do we hold all of ourselves accountable? What are the measures that we use to assess how we're tracking against these objectives in the next five years? So there'll be again some work that we'll be doing on that. We already have some good measurement tools, things like the VFBV survey, out well for an efficiency survey is a really valuable tool that we use. We know it's not used everywhere but encourage people to give us feedback on that. But there'll be other measures that we'll be looking at all through all layers of the organisation to see how we're tracking. And the last set of themes is in relation to productivity and innovation. So importantly everybody here knows we're part of a system of emergency service provision and fire service provision in Victoria. We've got FFM Vic, we've got EMV, we've got FRV, we've got our colleagues in SES and a number of other agencies that we work with. And so the report is encouraging us and urging us to work in collaboration with a number of those agencies to ensure that we're maximising the benefit of things like joint training, resolution of issues, working things through. And finally, ensuring that the CFA as we move forward is able to invest in resource management systems that support our people in managing. So I think you'll agree, Jason, it's a pretty comprehensive set of recommendations. It is a blueprint for CFA for the next five years at least to allow us to work through. And our intention is to be developing the implementation plan over the next couple of months. And we will be publicly reporting against that plan as we move forward so that we can all assess how we're tracking and where we're headed with these things. It will take time. We've had some great initiatives in place already. Things like our Women's Advisory Group, our Young Adults Advisory Group, the behavioural standards I've already mentioned and some of the diversity and inclusion activities. But that's not enough. There's more to be done and I think we're all looking forward to rolling our sleeves up, working all of us, every one of us to try and create the CFA that we really want to see in our communities, in our districts, in our state. So Jason, I'll leave it there. I'm sure there's lots of questions and you've probably got plenty as well. But that's a very quick run-through but encourage everybody to read the report and the summary at the least and get engaged with this. I think that my first question, I guess, is and as many would know, I did a bit of media on this topic and was probably grilled by the best. And shout out to those journalists. But it was one in particular question that was asked to me and was looking at the recommendations. It was put to me that it was a lot of corporate speak. And it was very holistic, wrapped up corporate speak. There are more to the recommendations aren't there in the full report. These have been packaged up nicely in terms of themes and the recommendations itself. But tell us more about where to go to the full report. There's further details underneath each of those recommendations, isn't there? Yeah, they're very specific. So we really are using those high-level sentences if you like as themes. But when you actually go to the report and the actual recommendations, they're very specific. There's very specific things that are being identified that we need to work on. And that's what we will do. Absolutely. So at this point, I might throw it to you, Dawn and Peter, board members. Yeah, you've been with the board for some time. And obviously, you're part of the journey to A, approve, see the executive undertaking this review. And then obviously receiving the report and reading it. First thoughts? First thoughts, I was really quite proud of the organization and the authority for having gone down this track to knowing that it was going to be everything. It was going to be the good, the bad, and the ugly. But the appetite from the board and from the executive and from the leadership across the state is that we actually want to move forward and we want to address these. And we actually want to make this organization one that you not only want to work at, but that you want to volunteer for years and years and years. So I was very proud of the fact that we embarked on this journey. What we got out and what the feedback was, largely, there were some things that were very surprising and distressing, as Natalie said, but there was also stuff that we know from those of us that are out on the ground that these are issues. So now the fact that we're actually going to embrace that, and we've already seen that through some of the things that Natalie's spoken about, is really great to see that we already have had the positive and we already are actually attending to issues and attending to progressing things already before actually this kind of hitting the page. Peter, board member, but also group officer and brigade member, and being part of CFA for quite a considerable amount of time. Couple of years, yeah. It's just a few years. Did any of this report surprise you? I wouldn't say it surprised me, no. I certainly get feedback at local level about issues. Sometimes I get asked if I can help resolve them and where you can you do. But no, there was nothing surprising in the report as such. I think it just outlaid just the background of people's concerns over many, many years. What I do see out of it in particular that I'll probably mention is the fact that there was a previous report that we couldn't release. And the board was certainly driven by the fact that we still needed to do something to get some of this out there to our people and to start looking at planning at how we'd move forward from here. And that's why we pushed as a board to get this report up and running and get it going. And for the people at home, the report that Peter refers to is the very Ock report conducted back in 2015 that obviously is subject to a court suppression order. So, yeah, we haven't been able to see that report or talk about it. But Natalie, I know it is a question that you and I get asked so many times, both in the volunteer and staff context. What's your thoughts around because I believe that we can move forward without the very Ock report? What's your thoughts to why that is the case and why this report now is so important? Yeah, thanks, Jason. I think it's not that we can. It's that we must. They're very true. We can't keep looking backwards. We have to look forward. And that is one of the things that we really wanted to do with this report is get that forward looking agenda and the steps that we've practical steps that we need to take as an organisation to move ourselves forward. I think it I'm hoping that for people it does put some of the very Ock pain to bed. It has allowed people across the CFA to tell their stories. And that was important to people. We heard the feedback that people had some people had felt robbed of the opportunity to have their stories heard. I hope that this has gone some way to supporting that. And importantly, out of those stories being told, the identification of key things that we can work on at every level, at Brigade, at crew, at group, there are many things that all of us can do every day to try and support a more productive culture. And my impression is that people want that opportunity to move forward. Absolutely. I have some some questions flowing in as we would expect. Yeah, it's quite a passionate subject for our people. And the first one, Mr Bishop talks about the need for change and the introduction of transparency. And his, I guess, experiences, obviously, is that feedback is not is not given to the complaint. And I guess that goes to recommendation for, which is about that continuing to improve the process for issues management. What I guess in your reading of the report, what's what's the direction that you'd be thinking we'd be heading in respect to recommendation for? Yeah, so there's definitely feedback for all of us at CFA on next steps around improving complaints, management and issues management. There has been a lot done, but there's more to do. There's no question about that. And certainly one of the recommendations to turns its mind to the issue about providing feedback generally so that people do understand what action has been taken in relation to their complaint. It's always difficult in organisations because that has to be balanced with people's rights in all sorts of ways. But I think we have to listen to that recommendation and look at ways that we can we can improve that. One of the reasons that the board and yourself and myself, Jason, were so determined to release the report in its entirety as is warts and all is in support of that transparency agenda. And we take a few hits when we do that, right? We put it out and we take hits, but that's the price we pay for getting greater transparency and pushing on with improving the CFA. And many would say that's the price of leadership sometimes, isn't it? Being brave, putting yourself out there and taking the hits. And certainly, we're very committed, all the executive at CFA is very committed to ensuring that this report comes through fruition through an implementation plan. Eric Collier, thank you for your views and thoughts there. It's greatly appreciated and I'm glad that for you, it has shone through with how CFA is moving forward. So thank you very much for your comments there. Roger asks a really great question and I might throw this one to yourself, Dawn. And it basically asks, it's great the recommendations and CFA has welcomed the adoption of the full report, including the board. But what does success look like? Oh, great question. How long have we got, Roger? How long have we got, everyone? Look, I think success looks like and it's not going to happen overnight and I just want to reiterate I think what Natalie said before. But I think success actually, you're looking at it tonight so it's actually having this discussion. That's where it starts. And then as the months and the years go on, it looks like a CFA that does actually represent the community that does have that representation across the genders, across the populations. It actually has, when we're doing these, which we'll have the, we've got that regular survey function and we've got the regular kind of evaluation functions. We actually start to see the good outweigh the bad or the positives outweigh the negatives. But I think it also actually, what it looks like is an authority and an organization that reflects the desires of everyone from the end of a hose on the ground through to groups, through to the different, you know, directorates, through to the board. Absolutely. Alex, what's your thoughts on, I guess, the report? What CFA is trying to do? Because, you know, to be frank, you're at the point in it. Yeah. You're with the brigades. Yeah. You're dealing with brigades and BMTs and GMTs when things don't go right. You know, quite often the commander's the first call. Yeah. What are your thoughts? Well, first, I think it's a really important piece of work. I think, in all, we've probably seen people be a little bit tired in the past. There's a bit of fatigue around this space. But in the conversations that I'm having with people, they're actually really hungry for change. And I think in reading through, certainly the summary of the report and recommendations, which shows some really good strategic goals for us to hit, in all, providing people with the resources that they need to actually create that cultural change is what's identified in this report. And I think that's what's really needed. So as a catchment commander, what would you say in this space would be your biggest challenges? It's the low-level complaints, I think. And I think whether there've been those that have been festering, perhaps over the last two years where people haven't been away, but it's the human nature stuff. It's about sitting down and having conversations with people. And it's tough, right? These can be tough conversations. So I think if we can get to a space where we actually are able to do some of that stuff back again and give people the skill set, give people the tools to do that, I know it'll certainly help me, but I know it's gonna make people a much more confident to have those conversations back in their own brigades or groups as well. That's awesome. Natalie, will we be doing our homework and marking it too? No, we might form preliminary views ourselves, but we have committed, and it is, in fact, one of the recommendations. And given that we've accepted all recommendations, we commit again. We will be having progress against the implementation plan independently reviewed through the course of the five years so that it's not just us saying, trust us, it's all under control. So we will actually be looking at that independent reassessment of how we're going against the recommendations. And I'll just see Roger's question there again coming back to how we're going to measure it. The answer is there are multiple ways to measure it. We have, for example, survey that we do annually with our staff, it reflects some of the interactions between staff and the organisation. As I said, we've got the survey, the volunteer welfare and efficiency survey. We've got a range of measures, and we will be looking at things like the Section 29s and some of those things to see whether we can pick up more cultural information through those. And we'll also be looking at other mechanisms that we may be able to use. I got approached yesterday, for example, from a university who said, we've got a free PhD student. I don't know whether the PhD student knows if they're free or not. We'll deal with that in due course who's very interested in the measurement of cultural change and would like to work with CFA. So there will be a range of measures, Roger, and we will be putting those, once we work those through as part of the implementation plan, we will be putting those on members online and it will be available for people to see how we're tracking. Ben, Brendan raises a really good issue here. So first thing, develop and implement a five-year plan. How will the volunteer voice be enshrined in that plan moving forward? Well, do we want to ask our volunteer? Well, that's probably a... Yeah, it will be. It will be. Depends on if you're asking the outgoing vocal anyway, volunteer, or if you're wondering generally across. I think the only way to do that is actually, and a lot of organizations, I think, they're not necessarily guilty of this, but they can be, but I think there's an assumption that they do all the planning and all the discussions in one building, in one part of Melbourne or one part of Victoria. And I think the onus is on those conversations actually going to that ground level, so actually at the group meetings, at the brigade meetings, so you're actually out there, not just relying on surveys, surveys are great, electronic surveys are really good, but that in-person opportunity, as much as I know that we can't clone 50 each of you, Jason, or 50 each of you, Natalie, I think it is actually about on the ground and taking opportunities where those volunteer forms are already in existence and already happening, captains forms, you name it. And of course, we have our key stakeholder in the volunteer space, the BFBV, who played a role in contributing to the report, and I see them playing a very integral role in developing the plan, testing the plan, sounding the plan out and the like, but I guess it's also incumbent upon all of us as leaders to be out there talking about it, talking to our members, getting feedback and feeding that back into the organisation as well to inform those plans moving forward. So, great question, Ben, but I'm pretty sure you heard it here, from the voices of the RFSA board directors that volunteers will be a CFA. Jason, oh, I've done it on there. CFA, ladies and gentlemen, my apologies. The rumors are not true. Form members of the CFA board that volunteers will be involved in the development of the implementation plan. And I think Jason, just sorry if I can too, and I've said it in many forums, that the leadership that we talk about isn't necessarily just the leadership of the board or just the leadership of the executive, it's actually the leadership of every single one of us who are a member of CFA, and so that onus and that connection, I think we all have to actually take on ourselves to be part of this if we genuinely want to be. Absolutely. So, Alex, recommendation three says to ensure effective support to ACFOS, commanders such as yourself, brigade management teams, group management teams and the like. Where would you like to see that support go and from your experience, what are some of the things that CFA should start considering to allow you to put more tools in the toolbox to deal with these issues? Yeah, look, I think the behavioral standards is a really good example of what was something that we're about to roll out that's gonna be a really key set of tools for people to use because it's a standard that we needed to revisit. It's one that's current and it actually provides people with a tool to have those difficult conversations at the brigade level, at the group level, at the district level before they move into something that's larger. So I think that's particularly important. I think we've got a lot of work to do in the leadership space, chief, in terms of being able to provide people with the right set of skills to make sure that they can lead people during challenging times. So I'm particularly excited about that as well. Excellent, thank you. Some more great questions coming through and I might put this one to yourself, Natalie. So Daniel asks 40% of CFA staff, also CFA volunteers, how will management avoid staff not using internal and only information to gain one's advantage in the volunteers' BMT role, causing disadvantage to an outsider vol? I'm not really sure where that question's coming from, but I think we'd have to dig a bit, Daniel, and happy to perhaps talk about that offline. I think it's a really positive thing that our staff members are volunteers as well. It can sometimes create lines which people have to be careful about. As a staff member, they may have access to information that's information as a staff member and it's not information that's necessarily out for the brigade management team or whatever. That's a conflict of interest potentially that staff have to be conscious of and work through. And I think we've got to have clearer lines about those things. But on the whole, it is a very positive thing for us to have staff working in the organisation who understand inherently the nature of volunteering and are doing it. And that creates a very strong link with the CFA values and the CFA processes that we have to think through. And I think it's a great strength of our organisation that we have that. But there are challenges that those staff who are in the position of both, including some of our very, very senior staff, and we have to manage about what hat you're wearing at what point. And I'd hazard guests to say that's also an issue for our board members as well who are volunteers. Absolutely, there are times when I have information and know things that I can't necessarily pass on to or I'd love to at times say, this is where we're going. But we can't always do that. But I'm also mindful that if you just invoke the CFA values and work to that, then you have some idea of where you stand and pass on the information and information that you might get through a staff role and use that, the values, as the aim to get where you're going to take it. Because at the end of the day, I guess it does boil down to behavioural standards and management of conflicts, really, doesn't it? So another heart, as I said, we don't shy away from the difficult questions on this forum. And again, probably one for yourself, Natalie, I'm sorry. So Peter asks, do you acknowledge the frustration being felt amongst volunteers? And what happens in the immediate future for those brigades and members whilst the recommended changes are being implemented? Yeah, look, I think there's frustration for volunteers, there's frustration for staff, there's frustration for leaders. I think we all feel it from time to time because the rate of change isn't what we want or isn't working the way we want it to work. I do think it's important that no matter how frustrated we are, we all still deal with each other in line with the CFA values. So it's okay to be frustrated, but the way we work those frustrations through must be in line with the values and the behavioural standards. And I think we all, all of us, need to remember that from time to time. We do acknowledge that it is frustrating sometimes for brigades and volunteers when things aren't going exactly the way they want. So I'm up front there, Peter, and saying, yes, we acknowledge that's the case. We don't always have the money that we want to do the things we need to do. We have to prioritise, we have to do those things. But all of us are here because we are CFA and we are all trying to make CFA a better place. So that's the starting position of any conversation, I think, that we have to have in that process. And if we start from that position, then we're likely to get to outcomes more quickly, I think, or I believe anyway, that's my view. I think it's also important, Peter, on that one that nobody should be waiting for the miracle to occur. It's us, we, the CFA, every one of us, has a role to play in getting these things implemented that we're talking through. So it's a journey that every one of us from tomorrow or from this evening can kind of start and say, okay, what can we do to try and work some of these issues through in a better way than what we may have worked them through in the past? So it's... I'm not sure if I've answered your question, but I think it's important to kind of acknowledge that it is a journey. I think you have, and Peter's asked another difficult question, and this one's probably to... Actually, I'd like you to answer this one, or give us your thoughts, I guess, Alex, because it probably does go to the heart of the sentiment of the feeling of the members on the coal phase, and that's given recent controversial media reports regarding lost training records, and the sense there's a great deal of angst between CFA districts and brigade members. What's your, I guess, thought and feeling take up to that matter? In the training space? Oh, I guess there's, I guess, a sense that perhaps there is a bit of an underlying issue occurring. Now, we've heard about the training records issue, but I guess it goes to the heart that perhaps there is some animosity, angst, or whatever it is between brigade districts, you know, the CFA broadly. What's been your experience? I think, to be quite frank, it exists. I mean, that would be the experience of the members that I talk to every day. It's a very sensitive topic. I mean, training is the linchpin of everything that we do, and I know that there's a lot of work going on in this space to try and rectify that, but we've got some immediate problems that we need to deal with, and I think, leaning back to what Natalie was saying before about frustrations, that's probably a key piece of that. And so I think patience is something that we all need to have in working through those issues, but I'm seeing some good things happening out in the space, and where we might be waiting for some packages to come on board, we're moving into doing what we used to do, and create training for ourselves, but notwithstanding. I think, Chief, the comments that have been made are what people are feeling on the ground. And I think that the challenge for CFA is part of this cultural reform space, is being able to have those conversations together, to seek to resolve those issues as soon as possible and as easy as possible, and working with our brigades to try and deal with the issues as they arise. Yeah, that's right. I think coming back to what I was saying before, it's really easy, I think, for all of us to get caught up in the frustrations, and when you're sitting down at the fire station, you're talking with the people, it's very easy to make that the only thing that you talk about, but there's so many good things that we're doing, whether it be in the training space, or whether it be in the reform space, or this report, we just need to find a little bit of time to talk about them as well. And I think too, we actually have to stop and realise that each person and having the privilege to do the authority from three different levels, the trifecta, each person, whether they're a volunteer, whether they're a district staff, whether they're somebody at headquarters or on the board, everybody actually rocks up wanting to do the right thing by our people, and I think we need to actually stop and recognise that, that we're all actually trying to find those solutions, but we do need to hear the issues and the problems, and then we can fix them. Absolutely. And making about the problem, not the person, which is an experience of mine within the district. You know, there are so many challenges, but let's make it about the problem and not the people who are trying to help us work our way through them. Absolutely. Absolutely. Some wise words of wisdom there from Commander Batty. Ladies and gentlemen, our chair, Mr Greg Wilson, I couldn't be here with us this evening, but he has ensured that there are two very able representatives of the board. Having said that, Greg has prepared a message, and we'll just start playing a short video message from our board chair in relation to our cultural review and recommendations. Greg Wilson, chair of the CFA Board. I'd like to take this opportunity on behalf of the board to thank everyone who participated in this important review, which will help strengthen and make the CFA better into the future. I know that for some, sharing their stories as part of this review wouldn't have been easy, and I know that being part of the CFA hasn't always been a positive experience for everyone. We've been on a journey to improve and build a more positive culture for all of our members. As part of that journey in September last year, we decided to commission an external review to look at the work that we were doing, what we were proposing to do, and to make sure we had the best advice on what steps we should undertake going forward. I know that there's some work to do, but the board is confident that the guidance and recommendations from this review will enhance the work that we have underway and will help us further improve the environment for all our members so that we can ensure the CFA truly is a great place to volunteer and work for all. And there you have it, a message from our board, chair, Mr. Greg Wilson, that really does go to cement the board's absolute commitment to implementing and seeing this cultural review and its implementation plan being put into action across a CFA. We have a new panel member with us. Welcome, Kylie. Thank you, Chief. And you see the general group manager support services. That's right. And we're quite involved in the cultural review and pulling it together. People and culture sits within your belly wick and the lead executive on pulling together the implementation plan. That's where the hard work really happens. Yeah, tell us more about it. Yeah, so over the next couple of months, really our job is to pull together the high level implementation plan. I think anybody who reads at least the summary report will see there is a pretty good roadmap blueprint of the sorts of things that we need to do and some good guidance on how we might do, some of the, meet some of the recommendations. What's really important first step is to actually make sure that we've mapped all of those things that we are already doing against the recommendations. And you've already heard about some of those tonight, like behavioral standards. Things like that can really accelerate some of the recommendations. But there's also some things in here that we know will take a long time. Anything that relates to regulations, there's a pathway towards that. So we need to be starting to think about that now and what that looks like in the plan. And pull together a bit of a project team across the organisation, reporting through to the executive that says these are the pieces of work. But then it's about each and every recommendation, each additional activity we take. And importantly, there will be some things in there that we don't have the resources today to do. And that will be the sorts of things that in some cases will need to go to government to flag the intention for that, to secure the resources. And that is really why it is a three to five year implementation plan. The next three months is really just the high level. And then from there, when we're working on individual things, that's when consultation on particular things really starts to happen with volunteers and staff across the board. So if our members read the report, have an idea or have some thoughts around what they read and want to contribute those thoughts, how best can they feed that into the organisation? Oh, look, there's lots of ways. You mentioned VFBV earlier. So that's a really critical forum and mechanism for all of our volunteers. There's a number of consultative forums that we've got one on the weekend. And we'll be talking to that forum with representatives from all the districts on that that enables us to talk to them, get feedback through those mechanisms, obviously in their districts and through the regional structures. We talk, I talk regularly to the DCOs. I'm paired with the Northwest Region with Gavin Thompson. So definitely get feedback around what's happening in that space and what brigades and volunteers in his area feel. And that's shared across all of the regions. So they're probably two of the key ones. I mean, even tonight, when we look at the chat and the questions that are coming through, that's feedback. We're hearing from members directly about the things that they're interested in, because these are the people who are engaged, who are showing up, who are being part of the conversation. Some comments around, yeah, and thanks, Scott, for calling out. Don't forget the Inclusion Council too, Chief. So where do you see our Diversity and Inclusion councillors fitting into this space? They're really important. So our Diversity and Inclusion Manager, Tasha Weir, has just started on a process of really refreshing our Diversity and Inclusion strategy. I know that the Diversity and Inclusion councils are called out in the report as something that we're already doing and that we need to build on. So they'll be a key group to engage with around how we get that diversity into CFA in the future. And I think anybody who is invested in the future of CFA, which I think is pretty much all our members, understands that we need to recruit widely and broadly across our community. Otherwise, we won't be sitting here in 15 years' time, 20 years' time, with the vibrant organisation that we have today. Absolutely. And it's great to see in the comments a couple of members of the VFBV Joint Committee offering their assistance to provide input into pulling the implementation plan together. A really good question from John. Will there be more training and support to catchment teams, including commanders and bassoes, and these type of roles in this process? In terms of... I'm assuming within the cultural change moving forward. I mean, I think we'll come back to behavioural standards. That's a really important piece. And we've started the role out of that regional leadership teams and that will start to flow through. That certainly provides a foundation. I think the volunteer leadership development space is something that is very live. Just came from a project control board meeting on that today, where we've talked about and will be taking forward to the executive a bit of an approach to begin to roll out more volunteer leadership that will be critical in the regions and districts. And our district support staff play a critical role in enabling that. Absolutely. Another question, a great question from Daniel. What will be the future of the current co-located brigades and what will they look like in the five-year plan? For me, obviously, co-located stations are current government policy around fire services reform. But I would have thought, as we go and we embed behavioural standards as we go to work on our cultural change, considering that recommendation number nine probably really goes to the heart of co-located brigades where every time we work with another emergency service organisation, that being increasing that collaboration across Victorian fire services. So has the panel got any thoughts on, probably, yeah, Peter, from your perspective, Nox Group. Yeah, you're very into town with FRB. Absolutely, yes. So what's your thoughts on that question? Look, integration has worked well in some places. And I think working together with our secondees is absolutely important to make this cultural work, make it work. I don't see that there should be anything blocking anything like that from happening. We've just got to, again, I refer back to the values of CFA, the behavioural standards that we're now rolling out across the organisation. We're going to bring all that together, and we should have no problem working with any of our other agencies. Excellent, great feedback there. Peter, look, a couple of questions. There's some more questions in there. I am going to move along a little bit. We're afraid to come back to cultural reform, behavioural standards and the like, but I want to talk about another hot topic. And I know it's a hot topic because I've got plenty of emails about this, and that's the dreaded C word, COVID, and the other word, vaccination. Kylie, can you give us a... Health services sits again within your portfolio, very big portfolio, important portfolio. What's the latest on the vaccination? So, look, the latest is no change, essentially. So, I know there's been a lot of talk in the media, and things have been spreading, but at this point in time, there has been no change to the pandemic orders as it affects emergency services workers, paid or volunteers. So, that is the status quo at the moment. We know it's a really important issue for members, and it is something that we are behind the scenes and in, you know, consultation with relevant others, trying to understand, you know, if and when the pandemic orders are lifted, what that does mean and what the expectation from government is, and trying to understand what, you know, other agencies are doing in this space, other volunteer organisations. And we know that, you know, there's plenty of advocacy to government about, you know, understanding the challenges if we, you know, go one way or the other. So, it is a complex space, but right here and now, there isn't any change, and the work instructions and the standing orders are as they have been. And I guess for clarity for our members, some would know that the current pandemic orders expire on the 12th, and they've now been extended through the 24th of this month. But can I rest assure all members, we are hearing your concerns and we are in discussions at the moment with government around what we can do with those brigades, particularly those brigades, in rural settings that, you know, may not have the level of interactions as our more active and urban brigades about whether there is opportunity for us to do something different. Very early stages, we are having those conversations, so rest assured to our members, we have heard your concerns and we are working with government to try and come forward with a way forward. But again, that's one that we're going to need to take on a collective approach with the sector. But I think, Chief, one of the things we have heard and it does link back to culture is, you know, unfortunately, there are times when frustrations that people have with those mandates do boil over in interactions with their colleagues. And it's really important that we do remember that, you know, they're not abstract concepts. You know, these are the things that we can do to have positive culture in an organisation. And, you know, it's often said that culture is the way things are done around here and the way we want things to be done is all those do's on the behavioural standards and that we know it's difficult and understand that CFA is working to try and influence the decision-makers. Absolutely, and circling back because we're getting, again, some great questions on, I guess, the cultural view, but more the so-what in terms of the implementation plan and some of the delivery of that. And Robert raises around the issues of, you know, aquifers and commanders and, you know, I would even say, you know, other leaders in the organisation, including our senior volunteer leaders, been empowered and empowered to take action and deal with issues. And, again, I think probably goes to the heart of Recommendation 5, which was around, no, sorry, 3, which was around enabling support to those people. We do have a regulation review coming up soon. Yep. In 2024, I think we need to have it to government. And I know you and I have discussed previously how, well, I guess you only need to read the Act and Regulations to probably appreciate that perhaps they're a little old-fashioned, considering the chief is only ever referred to as a he. Yeah. So, but it is very much on our mind, isn't it, about delegations and powering. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, it was certainly clear to me, coming into the CFA, that the regulations that the CFA currently is required to sort of operate under a very, very laborious, cumbersome, and, frankly, old-fashioned. And they do need to be modernised. There's no question about that. Without losing the essence of what CFA is and the command structures and those sorts of things, we're appropriate. But the disciplinary regulations in particular are very old-fashioned and ultimately lead to an adversarial environment, rather than a resolution-focused environment. And that will have to change. In the meantime, we have to follow those regulations. They are the regulations. That is the law of the land. But we do want to make sure that we're preparing now and we will use this review to do that work, to put our case forward for how we want to see the regulations change. Ultimately, it is a matter for government. But one of the reasons that we've, you know, taken the time to do this review well is taking the government along the journey with us. And it's certainly a recommendation in the review that the regulations be looked at and modernised. And we think that that will help in dealing with a number of the issues that do cause frustration now. Absolutely. Well, another, I guess, comment here, and there are some fans out there for the board members. Fantastic. Alex, you've got quite the fan club I see. That's a given. I'll tell you a shout-out from Mount Cottrell Group. Helen Zoke and Alan Clark Consulting, obviously they did the report, called out specifically the need for senior leadership to be visible. And in fact called out board members with the need to be visible. Your thoughts? It's absolutely critical, not only to us to be able to take a message to the membership out there of the organisation, but it gives us the feedback from what's going on out there in the real world. It's all right, Dawn might be a captain and I might be a group officer. But we're isolated to our particular area for that knowledge. So, I know Dawn and I both regularly get to brigade dinners and other events. And it's more about, or it's much about, getting that feedback from those people to feed our knowledge of CFA beyond our own little group or brigade. That's probably the critical part of that and would absolutely support us getting out there as often as we can. Dawn? Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think it's critical if you're not prepared to kind of be on the ground and actually be amongst the incredible people who constantly astound me that they give up so much free time to do what they do. This is the best part of the job and I've said it time and time again at events. Best part of the job is actually being on the ground, attending events, attending functions and seeing the faces that are with the names and with, we talk about 55,000 strong, but those are 55,000 people and families. So, to actually get to have that connection, there's nothing better. I can assure you that going to those events too, we get feedback, absolute feedback. So, I guess a nice little analogy, I know I had a conversation with a journalist on this matter as well, but when you start to put our membership, the size and quantum of our membership in a bit of perspective, 54,000 people, we're talking about essentially the size of Mildura, our large regional city in terms of a population and how I describe it to people is even Mildura has a police service for obvious reasons. So, you know, I think it's really, it's not about doing this report, doing the plan, implementing the plan and then magically overnight all our problems will disappear. Is it like it's a journey that we're going to have to continue being on, isn't it? Absolutely. And again, another part of us getting out there as much as we can is to try and push that message. So again, another hard question and I've been joined back by our catchment commander, Alex. Welcome back to the panel and I'll ask you back because I want to have an interesting conversation and maybe a difficult conversation. Yeah. And you probably know where I'm going. I'm not sure. But I'm listening and I'll be out. The shirt, mate. You know, questions are asked on a high panel if we are now CFA moving forward, as Natalie has said, why aren't employees, a condit, et cetera, wearing CFA uniforms that we are now, so that we feel like that we're CFA. You wear the uniform. You're one of the people that are out there with our members hearing things like that. How does that affect you? Immensely, I think, because it's an identity issue. And I think people who work for this organization love this organization, but there are some things that are outside of people's control. I think that the decision or the power that people have to make a change in that space doesn't sit with the people who necessarily have to wear the uniform. But I think, ultimately, it's about respecting the individual and the work that they do, not necessarily the shirt that they're wearing. I mean, we all make a contribution to CFA and we're here because we want to be here. So I hope that people understand that you're respective of the uniform that they're wearing. We're all here for the right reason and that's to support each other. Because for you, that's the reality. You don't have a choice. That's right. I can't change it for you, as much as many of our seconded staff would like that to be. Yeah, it is part of your enterprise agreement, federal instrument. It's, yeah, it is law, I guess. You haven't really touched on before, the land, but I think it's something that everyone appreciates, would like to see that. But it has a personal toll on individuals such as yourself, that have to wear that uniform. Yeah, and I think the crux of it is though that it shouldn't matter whether Alex Batty wants to wear an FRB shirt or he wants to wear a CFA shirt. I mean, my message to people is focus on the job that we're doing and the way that we're all contributing to this space. And we've got to kind of move beyond that now. Because ladies and gentlemen, here's the reality. On the 1st of July, 2020, it's the same great chocolate just in a different wrapper. So moving along to our agenda here, a couple of things. We did want to give a couple of updates as well. We have been having a pretty in-depth conversation. We've talked about some serious issues as well. And again, if anyone is upset or disturbed by the conversation this evening, please reach out to member services. They are waiting for your call. But I did want to touch on a couple of other things. As usual, Danny Jones, thank you for answering the multitude of infrastructure and truck-related questions and workwear questions. There's been many of those. And I thank you for taking those online. Likewise, other executive on the line as well that have been answering some of the questions. Another shout-out, I've got to say. And this gentleman is online this evening. I know some people have already caught on to that in the chat. And that is congratulations to Ross Coyle, who has been appointed as a new member to the CFA Board. It doesn't start straight away, but we'll join us a little bit later. So Ross, you're online. Thank you very much for watching. And congratulations for your appointment. And we look forward to having you in the boardroom discussing the important issues of the day. So a couple of things to catch up on. Some of you may be aware that we have been dealing with some... We're talking about some of the challenges of when we've got so many different vehicle types. We've got so many different brigades moving around the state, particularly during summer campaigns and having interstate fire crews come into this... Into Victoria. We do have quite a lot of vehicle typology. Yes. Some very... Yeah, the 3s and 4s and 2s and ABCs and Ds. And one of the things that I guess we learnt from doing an ICAM investigation was the importance of people knowing how to use some of these appliances. Hi, I'm Peter. We did a little project recently with... We did Nox Group. Yep. And thank you for Nox Group for pulling this together. And we're just about to play a video here now. And what... The idea is that on the inside cab of each of these vehicles, there'll be a QR code that people will be able to go to if you've never operated the vehicle before or you've been allocated this vehicle on a strike team or the like, that you can scan that code. And effectively get an introduction to the vehicle, but more importantly, the safety features of that vehicle. And you were there on the day of filming. Peter, take us through, I guess, some of the things that we went through. Okay, so we tried to get a situation where we covered primarily the major components of the different trucks that we filmed. We did six on the two days. But we tried to cover the safety features as much as anything. How to engage the pump. How to get the ladder off the truck. Where the main safety gear is, the DFIB, and the first aid gear is kept on of individual types of vehicles. We also covered the sprays for protection of the members that might be caught if they're caught in that bad situation that haven't been on that truck before. It's not a training video. It's just really there about the... giving the basic components of the vehicle so that you can take over that vehicle. I would expect that you would still take the vehicle for a drive. You'd go around the vehicle before you went anywhere with it and just have a closer look at what's in the lockers and the more detailed stuff that's not picked up in the video. And for me, you rise yourself with the vehicle separately as well. But this gives you the good head start. Absolutely, and I think one of the key things that we did want to do is make sure that people were aware of the key safety features. So activating crew protection sprays, knowing how to deploy curtains and I guess for some of our pumpers, knowing how to engage the pump, light pumper to a medium pumper, manual transmission through to automatic transmission. It is quite confusing for people that... firefighters coming from another state or territory, they're experienced firefighters. They know what they're doing, but when you get a vehicle that's foreign to you in its configuration and I think about 1920 and the number of volunteers deployed to New South Wales and I'm sure many of them are working on vehicles that they weren't familiar with either. Yeah, it's... So we didn't try and teach people how to use the equipment in this. It was about where the equipment was and how to turn it on or how to operate it from the vehicle perspective rather than trying to teach them how to roll hose and bull hose and how to put a branch on. It wasn't about any of that. It was just about the idiosyncrasies of each individual truck that if you knew your firemanship you could take the truck from there and work with what it had. Alex, from an operations perspective? Yeah, we were just talking about this before. I think the bands for this are endless. I mean, and I think in particular we talked about we didn't use it in the training space, but I imagine, you know, with people learning with different styles and not necessarily picking up something straight away. Even with FGPs, for example, you could potentially have those ready to go for people who wanted to go down to the fire station or training environment, scan a barcode and then have the video on hand straight away. I think it's magnificent. There's a lot more to be seen in this, I'm sure. Absolutely. Another, and I don't want to take away because it is an important topic, so I do, you know, probably will come back to the main features tonight around culture and the report and the like, and it's been a really great question. Again, from Brendan, the discipline procedure precudes volunteers for being represented at any stage. All employees retain the right to representation by their industrial agreements. Equity, question, natural justice, question. Whilst that's probably not technically the case if you're dealing with the discipline process as it is, but it does go to, I think, an important question and that is how do you ensure natural justice and procedural fairness are in the conduct of a hearing or a complaints process? And I know Natalie, we've been talking about that. What's your thoughts on how we might be able to improve things in that space? Yeah, well, there's no question that we, you know, we need to improve things, I think, in that space. Just, you know, if you take the after-action review process and look at some of the things that we've been trying to work through, particularly some of the more complex things that there has to be a better way than what we've got, there are some discussions that we want to have with the VFBV on this front and even within the boundaries of the regulations that we have now, we've got some ideas about how we can make that process less onerous and fairer without having everybody have lawyers at 80 paces or five paces or two paces. That is not in anyone's best interest, you know, unless it's a very extreme case and then, you know, it will be what it will be. So I think it is very much on our minds about how to, again, within the boundaries of what we can do within the regulations, try to modernise and make this process one which we can ensure happens quickly, doesn't get bogged down and can be worked through. But, you know, I guess watch this space is what I'm saying. It's a great question and it is something that we are turning our minds to about what we can do to try and make this a better process for all concerned. Absolutely. Alex, probably the last question for you tonight. But is there any work, I'm probably more important than wanting your thoughts, on communication consistent messaging between state, through the brigades, through region and the like? Yeah, I actually think we live in the space of there's almost communication overload. So I think, you know, if there's something that we need to strive for into the future is about streamlining that. I think we need to make sure that the message is clear. Sometimes people, I think, have received messages from many different places and many people have been CFA for a long time will understand the old rumour and grapevine. But we need to break through that. So anything we can do to provide clear and consistent messages from state back down into the districts and then, of course, to the brigades is where we need to be. Awesome. Plenty of questions about the video that we played in terms of the induction videos for the appliances. They will be available externally via the internet. So you won't necessarily need members online but I'm sure they will be available on members online and naturally if you scan the QR code when they are put into the trucks you'll be able to see them too. Tonight you've been given an exclusive sneak peek and the production team are still madly finishing pulling together all the other videos. So as soon as they are ready to go I'm sure Caterina and the crew from the Lessons Management Centre will be knocking up safety shares and the like and you'll be seeing it in a quarterly operational update coming to you soon. One last update I wanted to give everyone this evening was Natalie in the mid-year aspect and towards the end of the year we gave members a bit of an update on some of the investments that we made into brigades whether that be the battery powered RAM fans or the Milwaukee tool sets the liking gear, TIGs, Kestrels you name it. We pretty much tried to give as many brigades and groups and the like something as humanly possible. I'm happy to let you all know that the State Logistics Centre is madly receiving trucks daily and here's some pictures of all the gear starting to arrive in fact the crew are already starting to put together the cutting bag and the drilling bag for those that are going to be put on the pumpers across the state so all that fantastic gear is starting to arrive into the SLC and we'll be working with logistics and our districts to let you know that's going to be coming forward to your brigades but I think it's a fantastic way that CFA as an organisation can show it's appreciation for its volunteers and if we do have a few bucks lying around to really work with our volunteers and put some gear back in I think that's something we both really pleased about through the course of this year that where we've been able to identify genuine savings we're kind of harvesting those that's the right word early so that we are able to make those investments in equipment that we know our brigades want and in many cases need and provide additional capability so it's something that you'll see us continue to do as we move forward where we're able to make those investments from time to time that can make the work of the brigades safer, easier, more efficient more effective, very important Absolutely and so Alex what would it mean for your brigades in Mount Cottrell? Look I think they'll be wrapped those brigades in particular out in the west are doing more and more work and we're asking more and more of our volunteers every single day and any form of equipment that we can do to help people have a better outcome is going to be received as well so I'm sure they'll be absolutely stoked Excellent Well ladies and gentlemen that time has come yet again where we must part ways and that concludes our volunteer forum for this evening and I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Peter Shaw Natalie McDonald Dawn Hartog, Alex Batty and Kylie Bates for coming along and joining the panel this evening contributing to discussion but before I leave again as always behind the cameras there is a team of people from our corporate communications staff that come together and make this all happen for us a massive shout out to you all you all know who you are and they're all looking at me very nervously you do a fantastic job every month you've made this happen likewise this is the second volunteer forum we've done on the new platform and again we seek your feedback in terms of how you are finding it they do a fantastic job and on behalf of Natalie, myself and the executive we thank you very much for your commitment to pulling this all together every month well thank you very much that concludes this evening stay safe and we'll see you at next month's volunteer forum