 Welcome to the wide world of eSports, a show devoted to all things eSports. I'm your host, Catherine Norr. Today, our topic is partnering with eSports Next, Sports Planning Guide. With me is Christopher Silvernoggle, writer and social media manager of Sports Planning Guide. Welcome, Chris. Thanks for having me, Catherine. I'm excited to be here. All right. So, Chris, what is Sports Planning Guide? Sports Planning Guides, well, we've been around since 2009, but what we do is we try to connect event planners with the destinations that they want to host those events. So, for example, someone goes out and says, I want to host this youth sports tournament and I want to do it in the Midwest. They'll go look on our website and we'll direct them to places like Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, etc. to try and find them the best type of facility for their sport for them. OK, so I understand that you're partnering with eSports Next. Tell us about that. I'm really excited about that. We just started the partnership this year and what we'll be doing is we'll be taking that aspect of sports tourism and putting that into the eSports industry. So all the kind of old school mindsets of trying to connect those people with the type of facilities and everything they need, but putting that in the eSports perspective, but also bringing as well with our writers and the perspectives we have and the knowledge base because we do have the eSports knowledge and putting that into in-depth research and putting out great articles for eSports Trade Association with their eSports Next brand. All right. Let's show the video. All right. So tell us what we just saw. What you just saw was a brand video for us. It's just kind of like what we do, how we connect those destinations with those event planners and just the overall aspect of bringing that kind of sports tourism brand to the market because it's such a huge, huge market. Specifically in terms of dollar count, as I think it was just last year, Sports ETA, which is the head body of sports tourism, they actually estimated it at around $92 billion. So it's a huge industry and considering we're going to take that and put it into eSports, I think that's a good gateway for that. Okay. So your magazine is called Sports Planning Guide and do you consider eSports to fit within that? Not exactly. So what we'll be doing is we'll be actually taking a bit of a step away from the Sports Planning Guide for that, and we're going to give it its own highlighted package. So SPG will still be its sports tourism piece, but then the eSports stuff will be branded specifically as eSports Next Magazine, which will be directly tied to eSports Trade Association. Okay. So that's part of your partnership with eSports Trade Association, correct? Correct. Yeah. Okay. So why did your company feel that it was advantageous to partner with eSports Trade Association and eSports Next? Well, number one, I went to the eSports Next conference last year. It was just to cover them for kind of like our interest delving into eSports. We didn't really have the mindset of diving this deep back at that time, which was around August last year, but we were really impressed with how they had that show, how they ran that show, all the guest speakers they had and everything. And so we started negotiating with them more particularly because they're also a Chicago land-based organization like we are. And we saw this as advantageous to team up to really kind of, I don't want to say dig our cause, but really solidify that market and really dive in and really try to do something that not too many people, I guess, really talk about, which is eSports tourism. I don't think that's really a huge, huge part of the market yet. It's really about the streaming aspect. And I think that more and more we're going to see more destinations bringing in people for those types of events and not just streaming them live. Sure. I think you're absolutely right about that. I think that there will be more, especially now that we're done with COVID. I can see eSports being kind of a destination and especially with these huge tournaments that are held in South Korea and in other countries, these huge arenas in Europe and kind of Canada, I mean that are kind of popping up all over the world. What do you think about that? Absolutely. And even local stuff, by local I mean statewide. We have Arlington, Texas is one of our clients and partners we prefer to call them. And Arlington and built one of the first major eSports centers in the country. So I think more and more we're going to start seeing places like that. Raleigh is another one that's really on the ball with eSports. We're building a surge center in Chicago. I don't know if it's been delayed, but it was supposed to be 2024, but they're popping up all over and I think we're going to just see more and more of that, especially because Asia has just been on the ball. I know that Saudi Arabia even had like, what was it like a multi-billion dollar event or something. I can't remember the exact layout for that, but I think the prize winners got like 500,000 each or something. That's crazy. Yeah. You know, I think it's kind of interesting when you talk about the Middle East. I actually just attended the World Association of Sports Management Conference in Doha, Qatar. Oh, nice. Yeah. And actually I had five presentations at that conference. And I do see the Middle East as a huge, they have a huge future in sports and actually esports as well. I think I just saw that Abu Dhabi is, they're creating or have created a venue, a big venue for esports. And I, you know, they're putting a ton of money into that industry, their tourism industry for sports. So I think that that would include esports. Is that on your radar? It is on our radar. We have been talking with Dubai we've been talking with Saudi Arabia. Those are the only two so far, but there's nothing concrete yet. But we are aware for sure that those are huge markets going for the future. And as you said, not just in esports, but in sports in general. So, tell us more about the magazine for esports trade association. So this magazine is going to be an exclusive for the event. I guess you can consider it as a gamer, a collector's edition in a way. Because people still enjoy print no matter how much we say we want more digital. And I personally like more digital myself. I don't want to go off topic too much here, but you know, it's easier to keep track of things. But people like special edition things that they can physically hold, especially to come to an event. And what this magazine serves as a purpose for is not just giving people who attend and their members a membership directory, facility insights on actual esports facilities across the country, but also in-depth articles and features, especially in particular, I can give this away. And just this one is that we are going to have an in-depth interview process with a couple of CVDs across the country and how they see esports being played out in the future for travel and tourism in general. And I think that's huge. It's great for the industry that more and more destinations are paying attention to esports as a market. And it's interesting to focus more on esports business in this show, but part of the esports ecosystem is tourism. And I think that it's kind of when I look at your video, I notice that some of the sports that you feature are volleyball and there was, I probably, sport climbing and some others that are not like baseball, basketball, football. Do you kind of like to feature more unusual sports or do you also include those more ball sports that are huge stadium events? So it's really what the destination wants to have us highlight for them, but a lot of them like to be diverse. And I think that's great because you're not going to just make money off of the ball parks or the arenas that are going to have basketball or volleyball. They do want to put rock climbing. They do want to put hiking and even anywhere essentially that you can host an event. If it can be an event, let's say a triathlon somewhere, then they want to market it. And I think that's a good idea. One thing I'd like to say on that too is an interesting question that came up to me recently was whether we think that esports would conflict with something like ball parks or anything like that, but it's not. And that's why we want to separate it because physical activity and these types of things don't conflict. And I like to bring up this as an example is, for example, video games and actual sports. And by that, I mean like physical activity sports. So you can have an esports activity, an event, a real sporting event with like FIFA, I would say, but people who play FIFA tend to like soccer. So there's no conflict of interest there. So I think it plays all together really well. So that's why I see it as such a huge market is because it just complements every single thing going forward. And you know what? Actually, you could probably even combine esports and traditional sports in the same issue because like even now, I just read this morning that Roblox or Minecraft, I can't remember which or maybe it's both, are focusing on Wimbledon. That's interesting. Yeah. And if you look at during the pandemic, every traditional sport, they kind of transitioned to a kind of a gaming or esports kind of application. And like Madden, like FIFA, a lot of these, they have that component. So you can combine the two. And when especially you're looking at different generations, the older generation might be more interested in focusing on the traditional whereas the younger generation, the more esports application. What are your thoughts on that? I think that's true. And I think that's actually why our business is trying to get into that because sports tourism, in terms of numbers on individuals that are in the planning aspect, they tend to be around the ages of 35 to around 60. And it's a pretty big gap. But I mean, it's definitely an older crowd. But that can't sustain itself. So it needs to have a new opening for that. And I think that's why more and more of those destinations are getting into that. And I think that mixing the two aspects together would definitely be more beneficial than anything. Absolutely. So how are now I assume that for your magazine that you sell sponsor, I mean, you sell ad space? And we do. Yeah. Yeah. And are you finding that advertisers are really interested in a shift to esports? They are. We see a lot of interest in advertising for both. For this particular magazine, it's not been as easy, but it's because we got this off on a late start. That's not to put it down or anything. Everything's going smoothly on that end. We have the interest. It just depends really on, let's say, timing. For example, certain destinations and CVVs have a certain threshold of time that they have to get certain numbers in. But in terms of the interest of saying, hey, going forward for your newsletter for esports next for the next year's edition, we want it. And I think that that's fantastic because it shows that the CVVs are starting to become more and more aware of that. Sure. And I would think that esports next with all of its advertisers, all of its sponsors that they would take and so you're attending esports next. What are you excited about about esports next? I'm excited about quite a few things actually. I'm excited to see their speakers. I haven't seen all of them that they've listed up, but I know they just keep popping up more and more, but they always have really, they had a really interesting discussions last year. One thing I really love is that they have a custom jersey and they put love into that. It's not just something where it's like, here I'm going to slap the logo and some sponsors and then there you go. It has specific things to it. And just one example I'll give is like last year, you could flip the cuff of the sleeve and then it would have a little icon that said plus 10 luck on it. And I'm like, that's awesome. It's a little subtle thing, but it's just great. And I'm wondering what kind of little subtleties are going to have this year. Are they going to do like the more popular athletic sports jerseys now where it's like, some kind of message on the back of the collar or something? So I'm really looking forward to seeing that. Also looking forward to networking there because networking is a huge deal. They put a lot of great effort at Esports Next to put all these people in a room, in multiple rooms, and get them talking. And it's not just like, you're going in there to think about, oh, I just know these certain aspects of how Esports run, et cetera. For example, when I went there last year, I didn't know that there was a huge, huge market for Esports lawyers. I'm like, I didn't know that. So I ended up going from one interview aspect to the other and I came away with so much more knowledge within just the span of let's say 15 to 20 minutes of doing a speed, almost like speed dating. They had like this little thing where it was like you went from one person to the next and just spoke to them for a couple of minutes and some people will make an impact. Some people might not, but I'd say for the most part, I learned a lot there and it was really cool. Yeah, I'm looking forward to going as well. And I am coming all the way from Hawaii. So it's kind of a big deal. And what I'm looking forward to is I'm really looking forward to the Cubs game the day before. And there's a lot of opportunities. So the weird thing is my one year, I mean, no, it's three year anniversary of hosting this show is coming up in about a week. Congratulations. And throughout hosting the show, I've had many of the people that will be at Esports Next as guests on my show. So now I actually get to meet them in person if I haven't already. And so I'm looking forward to that. And there's also an elevator pitch competition, which I think is really interesting. We get to hear about really exciting new businesses that people are starting and that they're pitching. And you're right, there's a lot of really good content, but I'm really excited about that jersey too. I had forgotten all about it. I didn't realize that they had a little surprise. I know I voted on a style and I noticed that my votes were different than other people's. So I have a feeling that my favorite won't be picked. I think they did finally finalize it. I don't know if you picked this one, but it has like the Chicago famous that every Chicagoan is obsessed with adding, but it's true. You have like the four stars on the flag and it's a huge symbol for us. So I totally understand and I get why it got, but it also looks good. I do know it's really cool also that you get to have like a gamer tag or your last name, or you can have it blank. I chose my gamer tag. So I think that's going to be fun. What's your gamer tag? My gamer tag, depending on what I'm playing on, is usually Kellanoff's key. And if you're interested, that's just a reference to a song from a band that I've liked for the longest time. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist anymore, but yeah. Oh, that's cool. So what do you play? In terms of music? No, a game. Oh, games. Oh my God. Right now I'm playing Two to the Kingdom. I've just been obsessed with that. In terms of competitive gaming, the last thing I really, really got into was Mass Effect. And I've also been playing online with a lot of people through the Switch Premium that they have, the expansion pass. I've been playing GoldenEye because I love GoldenEye. When I was a kid, I used to play multiplayer contests with GoldenEye all the time. Oh, wow. Okay, that's fantastic. I kind of like to ask my guests what games they play because we need to find out where to find people. So what other esports venues or destinations that you're most focused on besides esports next and your neighborhood, Chicago? Well, I'll be attending Nintendo's live function in Seattle, so I'll be covering that for esports. Well, it's technically for esports next, but it'll be for the newsletter. We'll also be looking at college esports facilities because college esports programs are becoming a huge, huge deal. They have a fantastic contest for college, and it's a great way for young collegiate players to learn all the fundamentals that come with being in competitive sports. In general, empathy, leadership, teamwork, all kinds of great things like that. So I'd say collegiate esports is definitely something that we're really looking forward to diving into because a lot of our partners in their destinations, they have a lot of places they want us to talk about and that we're excited to be talking about. You know, I think that's smart to get into collegiate esports. Last I read there's about 400 collegiate esports programs. It might have grown since then, but I assume it's grown since I last looked at that. But the thing is, your brand will become familiar to those collegiate players and those involved in collegiate esports and ecosystem. And so as they get out of college, you can capture them as your audience as well. Yeah, like I said in an earlier part, is that the sports tourism industry is an older group. And I definitely think that grasping that out of college, group is really important for the industry as a whole. And you know, again, not conflicting with traditional sports, something that is easily able to not be conflictive, have a conflict with one another and really complement one another. So sports tourism, it's kind of finally able to come back after the pandemic. How was it during 2020 to kind of more recently for you? So I really got into this around 2021. So I came in just after the really bad part of pandemic, but I did intern for them prior to the pandemic. So it was tough, I think, all around for just about everyone in the sports tourism industry and tourism in general. Just because of all the shutdowns, you couldn't do anything. A lot of people couldn't even have outdoor events. It was crazy. It got to the point where, you know, and this is not exclusive to sports planning guide. For a lot of places that do publications online or even in print, we do both. Which I think is unique for us because we do print. But I digress. It's really a lot of people in that industry look to free work. And I think the people who bought into that and helped keep that industry afloat by doing free write-ups for those types of companies, they're the ones that got rewarded. And I think I'm a pretty good example of that because while the pandemic was going on and I was doing other work, I was still writing for them even though I was just post-interim. And I didn't really need to, but I wanted to because they're good people. And I got the job after. So it all turned out well in the end, but I don't know how well that turned out for all print and online publications. A lot of them have disappeared, just like we've seen a lot of other things get hit by the pandemic when it comes to tourism like airlines. It was madness. Yeah. And print magazines have had lots of challenges anyway due to digitizing. And there's a lot of change. And the competition between videos and actually reading something. And as a writer, you probably understand that very well. But you know, one thing that we wanted to do today with this show is to really plug esports next for esports trade association. And it's going to be held August 21st and 22nd next, actually almost next month, but this year. Is that, are those the dates? They are 21st to 22nd. Yeah. And then the day before is the special Cubs game. That's of course, you know, it's your choice whether you want to go. I think it's worth going though. Yeah, I can't wait till that. It seems like a great networking event. Exactly. And you know, if people are interested, they can go to esports trade associations website and find out all about it. But how can people, our viewers find your magazine? They'll be able to find it soon. We'll be putting it up on our website. In a special tab selection. And then I believe esports trade association will also have it up, probably on their esports next.gg website. But I can't confirm that yet. Everything will be available in just like page formats, but also a digital guide. So it's like a flip book. So people can feel like they're actually having the magazine in front of them. Fantastic. Well, Chris, thank you so much for being here today. And I wish you the best of luck and I can't wait to meet you in person. Sam, thank you so much for having me today. It's been a pleasure. All right. And thank you to our viewers for joining us today. In two weeks, my guest will be Ryan Hawks, a coach at GameSync. See you then. Com. Mahalo.