 and welcome to day two of the Neurodiversity Matters Conference hosted by Spectrum Theatre Ensemble. We appreciate all of you who tuned in yesterday. And if you didn't get to check out the panels and workshops yesterday, you can see them either via the Spectrum Theatre Ensemble Facebook page or on HowlRound's website. Before we begin, I wanted to again, quickly thank a few people. We wanna thank the HowlRound for helping host this event. Also, Spartina Consulting, who helped us plan the event and the Rhode Island Foundation for supporting that help. We also wanna thank the Rhode Island State Council for the arts for their support of the Neurodiversity Matters Conference and our play festival. Also the Prone Family Foundation. And today, we'd also like to thank the Carter Family Charitable Trust who is helping support the Neurodiversity New Play Festival coming this summer. So we have a lot of stuff lined up for you today. We're gonna get started with a panel that was actually prerecorded. So we're gonna record, load the recording now. And this panel is hosted by moderator Mark Charney who is the head of Texas Tech School of Theater and Dance. I'm director of the School of Theater and Dance at Texas Tech. And it's my privilege to moderate a session for Spectrum Theatre Ensemble that's part of a bigger conference about Neurodiversity Matters. It's sponsored by Spectrum Theatre Ensemble and I'm gonna let Clay Martin talk a little bit about STE. Hi guys. So STE is a, if you haven't interacted with us before is a neurodiverse professional theater company based in Providence, Rhode Island. That means we employ artists who are both on the autism spectrum and artists who are not on the autism spectrum to do theater and also to promote advocacy for people in the autism community. So as part of that second mission, we decided to host an online conference called Neurodiversity Matters where we got panelists to have experience with autism in the theater industry throughout the United States together to talk about some topics that we felt were important in this time in our community. So we again, we thank Dr. Charney. He's the chair of Texas Tech's Theater and Dance Department, which is actually the place where the Burke Tech players was started, which is another neurodiverse theater organization that's a partnership between his school and the Burke Hart Center for Autism Education and Research. So turn it back over to Mark. I've worked with Clay for quite a long time and I think this is a really important conference. Our subject today is about codifying sensory-friendly programming. What is the standard? Should there be one? So to that end, we're gonna try to hold this at about 45 minutes and I'm gonna introduce each of the panelists, let them say something about themselves and then sort of ask them a question to get going. So you'll meet the panelists along the way during the discussion. So we'll start with Dan Boyle. So Dan, say a few things about yourself first. Hi, I'm Dan Boyle. I am an artist for Spectrum Theater. I help work with the NICE program and I also help work with a trainee repertory company helping with their sensory-friendly workshops as well and a sensory-friendly consultant for them. So... That's right. And Dan, so describe sensory-friendly for us and maybe compare that to relaxed performance and or autism-friendly. Are they synonymous? Well, basically, autism-friendly is sort of like a more specific term for a performance that is specifically geared for people on the autism spectrum. Sensory-friendly is a little more of a broad term for performances that are geared towards both people on the spectrum but for also other forms of sensory impairments, perhaps PTSD, things like that nature. Relaxed performance. I don't know how would I describe that? It's... I can actually, if you don't mind, Dan, if I can jump in. I've seen relaxed performances which I've actually seen more of those in England and the UK but those performances seem to be geared not only in their modulation of tactics but are actually performances designed specifically for the autism and very young community where they, kids of a very young age can move around in their seats and move back and forth. There may be more things to touch involved with the performance rather than just a performance given with a kind of the fourth wall being there so that kids can move around or even sit within the structure of the performance. What you're gonna find during this 45 minutes is that, except for me, everybody that you're gonna meet during this panel is working directly with STE and has a real stake in its success and so I really love hearing all the different perspectives. Daniel Perkins, if you would introduce yourself and maybe when you do talk about what sensory-friendly means to you, what does it look like? All right, hi, I'm Daniel Perkins. I am a artist with Spectrum Theatre Ensemble. I'm part of the NICE program and I am a sensory-friendly consultant for Trinity Wrap. What sensory-friendly means to me? To me, honestly, that's a really tough one because for me, I think it's more of neurodivergent and neurotypicals coming together to come to the theater with just a few accommodations. I've been, for years, the one thing that I've only assumed is the ones that are made for family shows, Christmas Carol, Little Shop of Horrors, anything you can put your mind up. But in recent years, it's gotten a little bigger than that because right now, we're really reaching toward that goal of really making it accessible to the neurodiverse community, or at least that's the way how I feel. It's not there yet, but it's almost there. Now, you're gonna hear some terms being thrown around like PTSD and you're gonna hear something about NICE and ICE. That will get defined as we move along but these are programs specifically related to STE's mission. Yes, yes, they are. Dan Boyler, if we're going back to you a second, could you talk about PTSD community in our language? What does that mean? Sure, so basically, a lot of theater companies have the concept of just being autism-friendly as the term we had discussed earlier. But Spectrum Theater thinks we should be a little bit more broad in this terminology, particularly with PTSD, which is post-traumatic stress disorder. And there are a lot of people in the military, but also people outside the military who suffer from this and they can have sensory overload issues as well where they might want to come to a theater performance but be unable to because they're afraid that if there's intensive lights, intensive sound that they might be startled to the point where they could have some sort of reaction be unable to continue being there. So we want to help make it accessible to them as well. Perfect, and Daniel Perkins, we've been talking about neurodiversity, neurodivergent, neurotypical, can you help us out there? Yes, I can sum it up in a few simple phrases, neurodivergent, people who are not on the spectrum. Basically just the regular Joe or Josephine, like you or me, neurotypical, no, that's neurotypical, my bad, my bad, neurotypical. Neurodivergent is people who have sensory processes and disorders such as autism, PTSD, C, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Neurodiversity means those two coming together, sort of like a math equation. You add them all up, they make a perfect combo. Joining up to Dan's point, we are definitely trying to reach that point where it's not just the autism community, it's more of these two communities coming together. I've seen that a couple of times in my lifetime, particularly outside of Trinity Europe last year where Clay, Dan, and I got to help out with my alma mater, Bridge Water State University with their sensory-friendly performance of Woodes of Oz. Excellent. So Clay, I know that one of the missions of STE, and I know when you began this organization, after leaving Texas Tech and starting an organization there, Birk Tech Players, as you mentioned, sensory-friendly became a very big topic and an important one. So what sensory-friendly is out there? I think you sort of introduced that to us at Texas Tech and I think the very first sensory-friendly production we had in over 50 years was under your guidance. So what's out there, Clay? Right. So sensory-friendly programming or any of these other terms, relaxed programming, autism-friendly programming has been going on for, I would say, about 10 or 15 years that I've been aware or that I've become aware of and is really happening all over the country and in Europe as well. Like I said, there are companies like Oily Cart and Mind the Gap, who have been doing work with sensory-friendly Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night, which debuted at the National Theater in London, was a huge ground breaker because not only was it about a person on the spectrum, it was a very sensory-intent show so they adjusted it for audiences. Here in America, I am not gonna be able to name all the organizations that have been doing great work, but I know for sure TDF has been doing some fantastic groundbreaking work on Broadway along with Disney. There's a cohort of theaters in the Philadelphia area, including McCarter Theater, People's Light, Theater Horizons, which all have amazing staffs and groups that have been so passionate about this. They've been doing work with TCG for the last few years, getting some more data and trying out different methods and practices and seeing how it works both in the implementation and the audience response to this work. So, the third thing I wanted to do in talking about this is that we've evolved our ideas based on all this great work other people have done, but it absolutely does not discount the work of others or that people are not in this in the right way. So, what's up with this is maybe Clay and Dan both. We're talking about this. Can you just give us an example of if you were in a play, what would make it sensory-friendly? Just because everybody who's listening may not really know. Yeah. So, what Clay, what Danny and I have already mentioned, Clay kind of didn't, but probably because we already did, is that Trinity Reptile here in Rhode Island in addition to Spectrum Theater is also doing this sort of work and Daniel Perkins and I are involved in it. And basically what the whole point of doing sensory-friendly is, at least for, well, with Trinity they have two different versions. They have a sensory-friendly and a sensory-friendly plus. Where sensory-friendly shows, you have a sheet of triggers that might happen in the show that could cause a sensory overload. And you can get that at the desk of the tree before going to the performance if you need it. And it will explain exactly what you can expect. When you expect it, you'll have exactly the line right before it happens. So, exactly when it occurs. And for the most intense of those, there will be a pair of red lights hanging above the stage that will glow about 10, 15 seconds before that event. So, you know absolutely it's coming up and you can block your ears, your eyes, whatever you need to do. And for a sensory-friendly plus performance, they will actually modify the show slightly to remove some of those more intense triggers. Great. Yeah. Dan Perkins, were you gonna say something too? Actually I was gonna add to that, but no, what I mean is I agree with Dan said and it's all true. Originally when they did sensory-friendly, it was more geared toward more, because like Carol, but now with all adults who are on the spectrum or not coming in to see sensory-friendly, we're kind of reinterpreting to try to really emphasize that different. Great. Although you do get a trigger list for the sensory-friendly plus, but that's really not necessary anywhere. But still we keep it out there in case anybody needs it. So I know that Clay, when you began to eat and sensory-friendly programming became a thing, you wanted to codify it. You reached out to Troy Battle, who was then living where I live in Lubbock, Texas, and I met Troy as a student too and you said, you know, come to Providence, help us codify sensory-friendly. So Troy, when you introduce yourself, what does that mean to codify sensory-friendly, what have you been working on? Yeah, so yeah, my name is Troy Battle. I'm the Managing Director for Spectrum Theater Ensemble. As Dr. Charney just said, Clay reached out to me. We knew each other from Texas Tech and everything and we were getting to the point where grant period was ending, we're taking the next steps with Spectrum Theater Ensemble and then decided to make that move away from Mark and come up here and be closer to Spectrum. So one of the things that really excited me about Spectrum Theater Ensemble was when we were looking at sensory-friendly, again, there's so many different ways and things that are out there. And I think that when we're defining it, that this is what we've encountered, but there isn't a set kind of like, you don't know necessarily what you're going to get because we have a traditional kind of trigger warning list and things like that that's very common up here, but there's all different kinds of things that happen and things of that nature. So what we're really looking to do is I saw kind of talking this over with the group, with everyone involved, there's a real opportunity to basically define what that means to be sensory-friendly. And again, as Clay and others have said, there's not, it doesn't diminish what other people are doing. We're encouraging that, we're supportive of that. What we wanna do is, so if you have sensory needs, the goal is so that you know when you go to the theater is what you're getting into. And that's the goal of actually having a codified system, is that you can go on the website, you can see the accommodations that they have, and you get to make that decision for yourself. You get to take that autonomy and say, hey, there's enough supports there for me to go and I'm okay with this. And I can tell you, and I know that Gavin will be talking a little bit more about our specific programming, that was a big focus for us is again, letting the community know what we're doing, so that again, when you say sensory-friendly, that might not be enough for you, depending on what actual supports are there. So Troy, you're suggesting that, let's say I'm directing a show, or I'm artistic director of a theater, I should really be cognizant of my audience's needs and really specify what sensory-friendly means, so that anyone coming in knows, okay, we can anticipate this, we don't have to worry about this, right? Right, and the biggest consciousness-raising thing that really happened for me, being a part of Spectrum Theater Ensemble, seeing what Trinity's done, seeing what other groups have done, is that it's not just for your neurodivergent, sensory-friendly is not just for them, it's also to let your neurotypical audience know what they're going to possibly experience during the show, and when you do that, everyone is more welcoming, everyone feels more comfortable, you're able to relax, you know that you have experts in the crowd, in the audience that are there to support, you know that there are supports in place for people that need those extra accommodations or any kind of support, and it just creates a more inclusive environment that's really important, especially today, when we're, again, with social distancing and things of that nature, we're definitely looking at ways that that can kind of play into what it means to be sensory-friendly, because those are important aspects for a lot of our community. What I so admire about STE and all of you is that you really are putting the needs of the audience pretty much equal to the integrity of the show, and you're sort of saying, how can I protect the integrity of this particular show while still taking into account audiences, making the audience more inclusive? I mean, I think that one of the things I admire about you guys is that it not only comes from reason and rational thought, but also the heart. So it's this lovely combination of both things. Yeah, Dan Boyle, you wanted to say something. Yeah, I just want to reiterate the point that we've all kind of made to this point is that this is indeed not just for neurodivergent people, it's also for neurotipulose. We want to be open community and involve both groups and be a merging of minds, basically. That's the whole point of this, you know? I know, Dan, Troy Clay, everybody, I know that if we make our season sensory-friendly next year, I would love it codified because I would like to know what best practices are. I would like to know, okay, what can I do that have been proven to work? The great thing about having you guys codify it is that I can borrow from your language, I can borrow from your technique, I can borrow from your suggestions without sort of starting at the ground up, right, Troy? That's what you're trying to do, right? Absolutely, yeah, and that's the whole thing. I mean, we've had so many people that have reached out to us and being like, what do I do to do sensory-friendly? And I can say that one of our big missions with the actual codified system that we're looking at is, again, making everything available for everyone. We don't want to stop anyone. What we want to do is be that meeting place for people to come, and that's what you're buying into is being a part of this group that has standards in place, that it's that seal of approval that says that, hey, this has been investigated, checked into, and you know what? This is when they say that they're doing these things, I can trust that they're doing these things, and I know that when I'm getting into it, when I go in. I have to say with how difficult it's gonna be to get back in the theater after what we're experiencing right now, I can think of no better mission, because as we enter the theater again, and it's gonna be trepidatiously, I think for probably all of us, it's really nice to think that there's an organization that's teaching us how to make audiences more comfortable, and I think it's rebuild audiences for theater. That's gonna be important. Well, you guys have put together something called NICE, and I'm gonna have Gavin, when he introduces himself, talk about what NICE is, Neurodiverse Inclusive Certified Entertainment. I love the name, NICE. And actually, it sort of makes sense, but Gavin, help us out there. It's a bit of a mouthful, but hi, I'm Gavin. I work with Spectrum Theater Ensemble, mostly on NICE, Neurodiverse Inclusive Certified Entertainment. Yeah, and so what does that mean? It's Spectrum Theater's offering for what codified, sensory-friendly should look like in the future. And I think to sum up how it differs from what already exists, I think some really important differences are its institutional nature. It's looking at institutional sensory-friendly certification as opposed to individual show adjustments. So Dan Boyle did a really great job describing some of the implements in place to make shows individually more accessible to people with all sensory needs. But we're also thinking about making the theater as a whole and the entire season of the show more accessible. So Gavin, how do you measure like the outcomes and impact about NICE? And you've been in the ground sort of helping this, right? This is one of the things you've helped originate? I am working entirely off of Daniel and Dan's backs. But yeah, they definitely originated it. I'm just taking some credit for all that work. Hey, that's the best thing about, you know, an ensemble, right? Everybody's work is everybody's success. Yeah, so in sort of like, what are some of the goals of NICE? As Daniel was saying, it's about making shows for accessible, not just for people who are neurodivergent, but also for people who are neurotypical and expanding their awareness of their local neurodivergent community, what neurodiversity means, how vital and enriching that can be, just like my personal experience as a neurotypical person joining this community and this group in the past year has been so exciting. And I've learned so much from being in a truly neurodiverse space. And anybody can answer this one, but let's say I wanted to use NICE. Let's say I think, OK, neurodiverse inclusive certified entertainment. What do I do? I mean, what's the process? Does it cost anything? Is there a strategy for rollout? Anybody can answer this one, I think. Yeah, I'll jump in there real quick on this one because this is where a lot of our development is as we get ready to do the official rollout as part of our neurodiverse and new play festival this summer is that, yes, there. So what you're as far as what does it look like? So we do a weekend training that that perhaps you for for everything that that's going to happen takes you through those the key points of what NICE is. We have a credit list that that basically lets you pick what works for your theater and your community. We help partner you up with your local neurodiverse community neurodivergent community. So whether that's that's again connecting you with veterans organizations or other sensory needs organizations or autism organizations, we we we take that role and help as that that partner. Well, so that's great. So, Clay, if we were if I if I wanted to, you know, use my whole season next year, would you come to me? I mean, given that we could still fly then and and this is over, how big of a team would come in and how long would you be there? And what would that training involve? Right. So we're looking at this training session taking going over the course of a weekend or possibly like four days into a week, depending on how many organizations really are involved. We're hoping to create host organizations, possibly something like Texas Tech, where Texas Tech would host a number of theaters from the area or institutions from the area that would all come to train at your center. So we would do a little more in-depth training with, like, let's say the Texas Tech faculty, if they were doing that, your house managers, your production staff. And then over the weekend, train each of those individual institutions, then doing some follow-up work with their probably their marketing staff and their education staff or, yeah, which are which are the other big factors, because it's your house staff knowing how to interact with people and different means that your audience might have. And then production and doing any of those little adjustments or the red light, that takes about 30 minutes to explain. And then I think actually the biggest one is, again, marketing and education because it's about training people, not just in seeing a show and what will happen during the show, but the entire experience of going to a theater. One thing I found working with a neurodiverse population is that people on the spectrum can often really succeed and be much more comfortable in even sensory-intensive situations, as long as they're prepared for them and they know detailed instructions of what they'll experience. So not to overlook that. What's it like? Where do you go to buy your ticket? Where do you go to hand your ticket? Where, you know, where are the restrooms clearly defined like so you know where to go during the intermission? Stuff like that, that we take partially for granted in the detail can be really helpful to an audience member who is already experiencing so many other things when they're there. Well, this is an ugly question, I know, but how much would it cost me? Yeah, yeah. So so there is it. Take a dance. Yeah, the thing with this is that we're very conscious of that. And we do have a plan laid out for a sliding scale depending on the size of the theater and the organization. And and we understand, too, that for this to be successful, we need the community of theaters in your area to be a part of it. And that's that's one of the biggest things that we want to encourage and everything like that. So this is going to be one of those things where some of the larger theaters will be charged a little bit more while the smaller theaters pay little or nothing. And our goal is to also partner with you on finding resources for funding on that. So it's not necessarily coming out of your budget or anything like that. We want to partner you with grants with finding sponsors and donors in that that help actually create the hub in your city. So that's and that's something that we also will look to the theaters when we're doing our initial consulting and everything. Who do you have in your area that that would be excited to be help produce this for the city? Yes. So Lubbock where we're Clay and Troy spent most of their time when I got to know them. It's a great city for that because we could bring in so many organizations, including the new Buddy Holly Center and and Ballet Lubbock. And we could bring in the community theaters and we could bring in the Art Museum. So I'm sorry, Dan Boyle, you've had something. Then I'll go to Dan Perkins. I'll go back to you, Gavin. Yeah, so one thing we've kind of brought up a little bit, but I haven't gone full depth into is the fact that we are strongly urging that autism centers and, you know, parents homes now should be included in this conversation in a given area when the theaters come to us. But one thing we also would love for people to do is so I myself am on the spectrum and obviously I work with Trinity. I work with Spectrum in this program and we would love if theaters can also include members of the neurodivergent community in their staff in implementing this program. Because let's face it, I mean, we know better than anyone what sorts of sensory problems can exist. So we can, you know, we can be excellent advisors. Let's put it that way. You know, Dan, one of the things that Clay created when he was here is something called Birk Tech Players. And that's that's run or the artistic director are both people who are on the spectrum and our students and they work equally. And I know that works well. Daniel Perkins, you were going to say something, too. Sorry about that. I had to find the mute button. Anyway, it's funny that you mentioned outside organizations aside from just theaters with Night City. And I think this should apply for every type of kind of every function, be it museums, tours and my personal favorite theme parks, which I have a somewhat intimate knowledge somewhat as a guest, not as a cast member. Well, I could be I could be like an unofficial one if I if we do this just saying. But I know seriousness. I definitely think it's the same thing. You have to know the layout. You have to know what to expect. And particularly with people on the spectrum, sometimes the functions not just theater can get really overwhelming at times. And if you have a pair pair them for that in advance, you have a good idea of what's going on, what the layout is, all of that. Daniel, I you know, the idea of theme parks is remarkable because absolutely sensory overload. What an interesting thing to think of theme parks, which I guess probably more extremely sensory overload than almost anything else, right? Yes, yes. So back to you, you've been playing off of Dan and Daniel and is it really involved? What what sort of sparked your involvement? Why are you real excited about NICE and all of this? Yeah, I started working with last year and trying to play play brought me on sort of help out with the with the nice stuff. And yeah, got excited and saw saw how how much of a need there was for sort of a codified codified system. Yeah, and I think to to elaborate a little bit more on on what what NICE will look like, because I think it's still still a little vague to some people who might be might be watching. We were modeling it sort of after a lead system for those who are who are more familiar with that, where you get to a certain number of credits based off of various implements, your theater puts in place. And some of those that Dan Boyle mentioned are requirements such as having someone who's on the autism spectrum or with PTSD included in the preparation of certifying certifying your theater. And there are a variety of other requirements and suggestions, such as making sure that the autism community is reached out to and included or that people with autism or people with post-traumatic stress disorder are on staffs or in productions or in shows. And our expertise as as theater makers is very much in the theater. But I I think it's very intentional that it's a nice neurodiverse inclusive certified entertainment and the entertainment part is very open ended. That's really well. Really reach out to other other forms. That's really well put, Gavin. I have to tell you, I can't imagine going forward and imposing something on a neurodivergent community without having that community sort of partner with you to explain what's going on. I mean, there's nothing worse, I think, than trying to impose something without an understanding of it. Yeah, Clay. Yeah, actually, that's a great great comment to make because I think that's actually what STE is probably the most beneficial thing we can offer with nice is that, again, we know organizations throughout the country, throughout the world are doing this kind of work by codifying. We're just creating a similar set of terms. If you think about it like having MLA standards and how you how you note something so that everyone knows that it's the same what they're getting when they walk in and so that we can start to reach out and make the autism community and the transition centers and other universities that serve them, the departments that serve them, understand more about sensory friendly and be aware that it's happening everywhere. I love the idea of Texas Tech of being a host site in Lubbock because Lubbock then being not just a sensory friendly institution, one place or another, but being a sensory friendly city that all of a sudden you can get to a point where a family who has someone on the spectrum, we're even an adult on the spectrum living on their own, knows that when they go to see entertainment in their town, that it will have accommodations for them and know what those accommodations are and how to ask for them. And we're lucky because our School of Theatre and Dance is in a college of art and music and what you're saying applies to that entire college. So if our college could be a model and then we reach out, which is what universities do, I think you know that we're pretty proud that Lubbock is our campus, that if it started in Texas Tech, it would maybe result in a sensory friendly city. Absolutely. And something I'm very proud of about the institution that I came from, Texas Tech that you lead is that you all have done such a great job of community engagement and through your programs that you really are connected to both autism organizations and the theater and entertainment organizations throughout the city. So that would be a great thing to do. But we're happy to help do that work. That's where we can really be a service to other cities and organizations is to help them interact and engage with those autism centers and communities to create this kind of system. Well, you know, I'm a huge fan of to keep this to keep this around the time that we wanted maybe Clay and everybody else could say a couple of words about sensory friendly related to social distance, especially in a world of COVID, the post post virus. I hate to mention virus too much because this program obviously is going to really serve folks after the virus, but it's a program that was really necessary before we ever started thinking about COVID-19. This is something that should be in our vocabulary, virus or no virus. But what do you think, Clay, in terms of the post COVID world, a COVID world, what you're doing involved in that? I think we all imagine or dream of a post COVID world. I'm going to actually hand this over to Troy Battle, but I think it's really been thinking about this of how these how these implementations can serve the community as we adjust. Right. Yeah. And I think that the thing that this is done for our thinking on what NICE is and everything like that is it's kind of opened our eyes a little bit is that these are when we're coming back into, like you said, into the world, there's going to be a transition period. Again, we want we want audiences to feel comfortable coming to theaters to be in these spaces. And again, now more than ever, this is a more neurodiverse kind of focus that we're doing with it because you're letting your again, are we having seats between people? Are we having space? If we're not able to sell our whole theater, we can designate certain areas. These kind of things are things that we're incorporating into this as we're going along. And really, it's not when we're looking at this, it's helping prep the audience for these kind of things going forward. We've learned to adjust. We've learned to make these kind of accommodations. And now is the time to implement them so that you're fully prepped when we come back. And I think that that's an important part of is being active during this time and this is the time to get involved with it because now going forward, we'll definitely be able to implement them as we as you bring your normal audience back into the world. OK, and Dan Ball, did you have something you wanted to say? And then I'm going to go back to Clay and we'll probably end this thing. Yes. So to add to what Troy was saying, one thing that a lot of people with sensory issues deal with is, in fact, close contact with people. I mean, that's a sensory overload in itself for many, for many people on the spectrum with PTSD. And one thing that is going to be happening, at least in the very near future, is even once the theaters reopen, we will have to have seats open in the theater. We will have to have still social distance. And we might be able to use this to promote more you know, openness in the theater, not so much, you know, sardine packing. Basically, you know, and that is a very good thing. Both I think both for both no diversion, people and no trouble, people, in my opinion. But I think you're exactly right, Dan. And before I turn it over to Clay, and he's going to have a couple final words, I just wanted to say one of the reasons that I sort of put myself out as a moderator is because I admire the work of this company so much. And I admire what Clay began and this community that Dan Boyle and Dan Joperkins and Gavin Petty and Troy Battle sort of represent. And you're only meeting a few of the people. They're going to be quite a few programs like this discussing matters related to neurodiversity and a play festival. So I encourage you to try to pick as many of these many of these conference talks as you can. You'll get a whole picture there. And I'll sort of commit to Texas Text being somebody who's going to use nice in the future and and do what we're sort of suggesting. And I hope to meet, you know, ideally I was going to come up there this summer and meet you all, but I hope to meet you all at another time. I'm really proud that you asked me to do this. And I feel like you guys have heart and brains and a work ethic that's really going to change the audience world as we know it. So thank you for inviting me. And Clay, I believe you have something to say. And I will see you as a member of another panel down the line. All right. Thank you so much. And yeah, first, I just want to thank Dr. Charney for moderating this panel and for all the SE members who participated in it. We hope this really helped him. Everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, help inform the audience and tell you a little bit about what's going on with Century Friendly Programming. I got you interested in the concept. You can learn more about it and see recordings of all the panel videos in the near future on our website, which is www.stensemble.org. And then actually next up in our conference, we will this video was recorded, but following the video, we'll have a live Q&A with a few of our company members about nice practices in case you have any follow up questions or want to get more information about it will be available on Facebook Live to ask questions and respond to you there. But yeah, thank you guys so much for attending. We hope to check out the rest of the conference and stay tuned for the Neurodiversity New Play Festival, which is coming in July and August of this year. Thank you so much. We hope to see you there. And thank you, Dr. Charney. Take care. Bye bye. Thank you. Hi, everyone. We're back. I hope you enjoyed that panel discussion. And we're here with Gavin Petty, who's one of the STE company members who's really been helping head the work on the nice program development. So hi, Gavin. Hey, hi, Glenn. How are you doing? Doing good, man. And I so you have some stuff to share with us, some more information about nice. Yeah, I wanted to cover a few things that might have been missed in the in our panel discussion, but so I'll go over a few things. There, but if you have any questions, please feel free to put those in Facebook Live and clan I can get to answering those. But I think a couple of things that that might have been unclear is we kind of want to share how we how we plan to launch nice and how the process of nice will will progress. So it'll start with creating hub theaters. So, for example, in Providence Spectrum Theater can handle a lot of the training and certification for theaters in the area. We don't right now have the capacity to do that all over the country, as we're hoping nice to expand to. So, for example, a place like Texas Tech, where you just heard the moderator come from, we will could be an example of a hub theater that will start and be trained in nice practices as well as training how to train other theaters in nice practices. And I think that's really important for quality insurance and making sure that nice practices stay up to date and that we can continue to expand this in hub theaters throughout the country and then expand it to local theaters. And again, as Troy mentioned, I think in the panel that we really want this to be a program that's available for all theaters regardless of budget. So to make sure I'm clear on it, I know I've been working with you all some on this development, but so at a hub theater, you would do a little bit of extra training past just the practices and train some of their like at Texas Tech, some of their faculty or staff, maybe their head of production or technicians into how they could train other organizations in the nice certification so that they can be certifiers themselves. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So ideally, depending on when in a few years this gets rolled out, but hub theaters could host trainings and bring in all theaters to them just to sort of reduce cost and make it more accessible for all theaters. And so the hub theater would coordinate all the training and logistics. There would also have to be site visits to make sure that the theaters are spatially set up appropriately to accommodate a nice certification. And we may not have an answer to it yet, but would that mean potentially a host theater would have some would be able to make this a kind of income generator even for them as being a certifier as well? Yeah, there's there's a possibility for that. And at the very least, a reduction of pricing for nice. And we're still sort of figuring out how to how to price out nice. But yes, definitely, that's definitely a possibility. Fantastic. Anything else you want to share? Yeah, I'm happy to hear any any questions anyone has, but I can I can keep. Yeah, so we've got a couple of questions here. So what other institutions beyond? Oh, yeah. So what other institutions are you thinking about beyond theater when you think about nice certification? Can you give us some examples of that? Yeah, really, any. I think it could expand as as much as as much as possible, really. The whole world is very sensory intense. I mean, yeah. Yeah, I think I think any any live performance is really, really important. And I think where expertise lies. So live performance being central, I think. Films, it can get a little I'm not as experienced, but definitely possibility in coming into a movie theater. I know there are organizations that work directly with AMC theaters to sort of figure out sensory friendly performances live. Live adjustment is really what we're talking about. And I think it makes sense that that's where nice is focused. But opera halls and music venues and even stadiums like sporting events, stuff like that. Yeah, exactly. And logical. And Daniel and Daniel mentioned amusement parks. And I think there are definitely different different portions of amusement parks that could could work better. And I know their performances at amusement parks often. Absolutely. And you're going to be right. I'm from Texas and lived in North Carolina. State fairs are a big thing for probably have some sensory stuff. Yeah, I agree that the the possibilities are if not endless, they're definitely abundant. And even just live events that don't have performances. I think we talk a lot about not performance alterations to not alter artistic integrity, which is what a lot of sensory friendly has been focused on, but rather creating an environment that's often friendly and sensory friendly. And so live events that don't even have necessarily a performance element to them, but large sort of like community gatherings can be really great spaces to conferences and stuff like that. I just came to my mind like Las Vegas, the entire city, you know, between the casinos, but also conference hosting, live events, you know, there's so much kind of sensory intake there that that would that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Cool. Anything else? We do have a couple more questions, but anything else you want to touch on first? Yeah, I can touch on a little bit of a question sort of I get a lot is but what about what about the the artistic integrity? What about the designers? What like by making adjustments to make it more sensory friendly? Are you do you have to raise lights and reduce sound and lighting? And yes, that is very much an appropriate way to go about sensory friendly and nice is still looking at sort of like our sensory friendly plus nicer elementary reduced performances. But what we find is actually that in a lot of the autism community actually really just wants to see the show as it was intended to be produced. And so I think providing that opportunity is so so vital and so important. And so making sure that all the work comes beforehand and making sure that the show is as people are as prepared to see the show as they possibly can be and seeing if those accommodations are enough for them is really important as opposed to sacrificing lighting designer and sound designer and set designers work. Absolutely. I love that. And I think it's a really important word is that I think what they really communicate that nice really emphasizes is that it's more about preparation than presentation. It's getting people ready to go to the theater, getting them yeah, giving them the information so that it's not a big surprise of everything that happens when they get there. Yeah, that's fantastic. OK, we've got a great question. It's a little long to bear with me, but it's fantastic. This person asked, I'm wondering if you can talk more about the follow up and accountability once theaters are nice certified and or if some of the accommodations need to be changed or updated, what that would look like. That is a fantastic question and something we're definitely working on. I think so we're planning right now to have nice be sort of a seasonal accommodation so you get credited for your entire season, but not for the rest of this year's career. So you would look at the shows that are being produced that season and then have check ins throughout the season, but also at the end of each season so you could be reupped for the next season. And that's sort of our responsibility of the hub theater to keep those check ins going. And I know Troy about this, too, who works on the nice program, but I think what we're conceiving of is that we also know that the the understanding and practices and innovations with inclusion and sensory friendly stuff is continuing to evolve. And so we're going to be working out the exact timing of recertification with these pilot programs, but around, I would say, two to three years being the amount of time that we would come back in. And it wouldn't be like a full recourse of retraining every time. There would be some kind of once you're established, some kind of recertification fee of just coming in to again, assess what you're doing and then really to implement any new innovative strategies that we have. Yeah, and I think a really important question is sort of like how to make sure that that is done throughout the process as well. And I know that other credited programs have sort of fallen into the trap of like having this credit list where you where you like get to pick what what fits best for your theater. And those are great in practice, but don't necessarily fit perfectly with your theater and don't actually mean that more people those entry needs are showing up to your shows, right? Sort of like what accountability is there on that? And and so I think having metrics of success is really important to make sure that that people with sensory needs and with autism are showing up to your shows and that there's a shift in in attending and that they're comfortable with their shows and that and that there are enough accommodations for them to see it safely. So looking at different forms of questionnaires that are friendly to different forms of communication, online questionnaires, written questionnaires, many interviews, sort of ways to make sure that the theater can stay in touch with its community to make sure that it's serving the needs that it set up to serve. Absolutely. And and that's something I think that's going to be another great outcome of this initiative is that it's creating also this cohort of theaters where we can really implement and distribute methods of data gathering because like me and a person on the spectrum that if you meet one person spectrum, you met one person spectrum. When you see a live show, you've seen a live show. Every piece of theater is different. But as we have more organizations participate, we can start to pull more data and really use that to improve improve our outcomes, but also to give more evidence to the world and to organizations of why this works. Yeah, which is again, I'm also glad that we have you who has a background in environmental science because I love theater and I love artists, but it's good to have scientists working with us, too, because you all have some amazing talents. Yeah, but fantastic. Let me see if we have any other questions. OK. Oh, yeah, sure. This is just a general one, but great one to end on. So my everything on this, but what value does nice bring to the community? I'll go with a simple inclusivity. I think it is the responsibility of theaters to make sure that as many people as possible can see their shows safely. And it really thinks about inclusivity of the theaters, but also of the theater going community. I think we. This is a little bit in the panel, but that we're focused on neurodiverse, neurodiversity inclusion, as opposed to neurodivergent inclusion, because we want the neurodivergent inclusion. Neurotypical community to become more familiar with what it means to be only autism spectrum or to have PTSD and to become more familiar with with what those accommodations might be. And so therefore can expand awareness towards the neurotypical community and how to make a theater space more accessible. And therefore the spaces that they operate in, the spaces that they work in, possibly more accessible to communities. But yeah, I think inclusivity as a whole. That is a great point. And I think right now, if anything, this time has shown us is that because, you know, deprivation causes interest. We need community. It's an important thing in our lives. And I'm sure everyone sitting at home just can't wait to be together with people again and to commune with them and to share experiences with them in person. And, you know, we want to do that, but we want everyone to do that. It would be a shame if everyone is able to commune and people on the spectrum don't feel welcome or don't feel accessible there. And for our military population, we had a panel discussion about yesterday who have PTSD in the century seven since he was well, who are coming back from long tours in these long wars. We want them to be a part of us. We want them to stand with us, to sit with, to laugh with us, to share with us. And I think that's really what NICE can do is make a country and a theater industry and entertainment industry that can allow everyone to come together. So I look forward to that day. And thank you, Gavin, for helping us make that possible. Yeah. Thank you, Clay, for for organizing all this and all your work that you do with STD. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. All right, we're going to take a five minute break. And then we're going to be back on sharing some other autism organizations in the community. So thank you again, Gavin and everyone watching on Facebook.