 Happy to be here with Rebecca Van Damme. We have a mutual friend, Tad Hargrave, and we both have presented for Tad's audience. And I thought Rebecca would be good to come and talk about content and social media algorithms and how to do content in a way that really resonates with our ideal audience without overworking, without working too hard on it. So Rebecca, great to have you here. Hi, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, so let me give you a chance to just do a brief intro of yourself and then we'll get into the conversation, yeah. Sure, so I'm Rebecca Van Damme. I am a content strategist for healers, activists, artists, social entrepreneurs, change makers, the same kind of people that George works with, Tad works with, we're all kind of niche mates. And I call myself a strategist and not a coach because I feel like I love coaches and I feel like coaches are helping people get out of their own way. And for me, I'm like, once you're out of your own way, let's talk about the way forward. So I end up doing mindset stuff because of course it comes up. And of course people's fears and emotions get in the way of showing up online, but that's not where I tend to focus. I tend to focus more on the practical and the big picture. I really like big picture thinking. Yeah, that's awesome. And well, let's get right into it because the social media algorithm is something that everyone, they either feel like, oh, it's treating me badly, not showing my content, or it's just spaffling sometimes. I would love for you to share your perspective on it, like why we don't need to, I guess, chase the algorithm as you say to be able to have a good business, so yeah. Yeah, so I think first off, people are not only too focused on the algorithm, they're too focused on social media. I think social media is a great supplement to an already functioning business funnel. Some people might feel differently. I know Jonah Richmond has built his business totally on Instagram and that's amazing. And it's a testament to there being no one right way to do things, that there's lots of different strategies out there and ways to make it work. But my point of view is that your, if you've got the right building blocks in place, if you know what your vision is, why you do what you do, if you know who you serve, if your offerings really speak to the people who you serve, if you then serve your gifts with excellence and generosity, if all of those things are in place, then people will talk about you. They will tell their friends and colleagues about what you do and there will be some kind of word of mouth going on. And then nurturing that word of mouth and building relationships is number one hands down where it's at. And I see all of this as a garden and I see the word of mouth network as little bees, sending messages to each other. And I see in this garden of a thriving business, social media as fertilizer. So it's no, you can't replace good soil, good seeds, sunlight, water, you can't replace all of that with fertilizer. But if all of that stuff is thriving and then you put fertilizer on it, then you'll enhance it. So that's thing one is that I think people are hyper focused on social media and social media is, these platforms are full of what we call cold leads. They're people who we don't know that well. And of course we can nurture those relationships on social media, but generally the people who don't know us yet are cold leads. The people who follow us are lukewarm, maybe warm, but then if we can get them onto our email list, then they become warm. And then if they buy something from us and they're hot leads, and then we sell things to the people who have already bought from us, it's a lot easier. But people wanna go from zero to 60 on social media and they get bummed out because they've pitched their offerings to a cold crowd and wondering why it's not working. So that's the thing one is that I think people just put so much weight and heaviness on social media. And then the other thing is, is that thinking about the algorithm, I've had so many people ask me, well, I heard that scheduling apps, you know, turn down the volume on algorithm. And I heard that- Actually, before you go there, I'm so sorry. I just wanted to say, I agree with you on what you just said about the social media being, like it's an amplifier, right? Of existing good resonant offers and connections with people. And it's like people, just like you said, like people think social media is some kind of like magic where it's like, oh, I've got a new business. I should just post on social media. And if I get the algorithm right, use the right hashtags that drop, you know, secret. I don't even use hashtags on Instagram because I noticed it just gets bots following me. And anyway, that's a whole other thing. But yeah, just rice hashtags and, you know, other tricks to get attention. Then, you know, I'll build a following and then they'll want to buy from me. Well, maybe, maybe not. So I want to emphasize what you said there. It's like, yeah, the sunlight, the soil, you know, good water, good seeds. And, you know, that's sort of like the basics which people often don't spend as much time or the needed time on. So, excellent, excellent. Okay. So then you're saying social media scheduling apps, right? Let's talk about that. Like, I often get people saying, well, you know, why don't you use scheduling apps? You just, you know, use it. And then it puts it out everywhere. And there's this, well, let me actually hear you. Let me hear your point of view on social media scheduling apps first. Yeah, maybe we feel differently about it. For me, so my thing is, you know, people ask me a lot of questions about won't this hurt the algorithm, won't that hurt the algorithm? If I do too many hashtags, won't that hurt it? If I use the scheduling app, won't that hurt it? If I put the hashtags in the first comment instead of they're asking all of these questions and they're these nitty gritty things that stop the flow. And certainly in the beginning when people are building their following and building their base, to me, these are not the questions. The questions are, how do you wanna express yourself? What are you trying to say? How do you wanna say it? Who are you talking to? And how do you get consistent? And I am all about building structures and processes to get consistent. And I use scheduling apps to do that, but I'm curious, what's your thing with scheduling apps? No, I actually don't have anything with scheduling apps. I mean, I tell people, listen, if you wanna use it, go for it. And I, maybe I'm kind of old school in my social media. I like to do it manually, not manually. I mean, I do use Meta Studio, Creator Studio to schedule Facebook and Instagram posts, but I like to do it, I'll tell you what it is. I resist scheduling too far in advance because I feel like, I don't know if I, I don't know if three weeks from now I want that piece of content to be the piece of content that week. So like, I think I schedule up to like seven days in advance, something like that. And I feel like that's far enough for me. I'm not saying it's bad to schedule, but it's like, I guess you know what it is. I'll tell you what, I have, there are apps that automatically post certain things on a regular basis. And I'm like, I'm not saying that that's bad. I'm just saying that it kind of misses the opportunity of more authentic creation or more like being in touch with the audience. I don't know, I'm being too old school about it. So that's my style. And that's what worked really well for me. It's like every week I'm thinking about what's real for me this week, even though I do pre-purpose a lot of old content, don't get me wrong. I still bring back the best of, but I still kind of like touch it again to go, is this still real for me or what might I modify a little bit to, yeah, so. I love that. I mean, I don't think it's old school. I just think it's in the moment and it's another layer of authenticity to bring into the mix. So I think it's great. I think for me, and I know what you're talking about, the apps that kind of queue things up and you put them in categories and you don't know what's going out. It's just gonna, yeah, I don't use those. I use the ones where you're actually mapping it out. And I think for me, I just like to get ahead so that I know things are rolling. And then if I have a spark of inspiration, I always tell my clients, so you've got your three posts a week going out or however many posts a week going out. And then if you've got a moment you're like, today this thing is happening, I wanna say something, cut in, pop in, like do a real, do a story, whatever. But at least you know that you don't have to today because you've got stuff going out. And that's my thing is just freeing up time and space to cut down on decision fatigue and make room for other things in your business. That's where I'm really at. And then I have some clients who have like 45,000 followers on Instagram and they're getting nitty gritty about the algorithm. At that point, I'm like, go for it because you already know what's working and it's gonna make a big difference if only 1,200 people are seeing your posts versus 10,000. That's a big deal. So go for it, learn the algorithm at that point. But in the beginning when people are trying to get the plane off the ground, it's not the time to be tinkering with the levers and just get the plane off the ground. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I, yes, exactly. Yeah, cause like the algorithm is kind of like, well, let's turn the wheel a little bit to the left or a little bit to the right. It looks like your plane's not even flying when you're turning up the right floor. No, I like that analogy. So then let's talk about, well, what should people lead with in their content? Like what is, what do you recommend to I guess quote unquote stand out or there's so much that we can create from within us. What do we choose? Yeah, so my secret sauce is always the unpopular belief. Your most unpopular belief. And I've found this to be true in my business. My most unpopular belief is that building a business and disrupting capitalism are not mutually exclusive. And I have noticed that even people in my niche, some people in my niche are like, I'm so glad she said that or I'm so glad she's even using the word anti-capitalism. It's exciting to people who could be your super fans to hear you say something that they know will piss off the opposition or whatever. Whatever force they're trying to fight, the force that's against the good, they're like, oh, she said it. But then there's clients who are in my niche and are like a square in my target market who are like, no, you can't be an anti-capitalist marketer. And then it's a conversation. It's a controversial conversation topic. It makes people wanna dig a little deeper. So there's that. And I think it also shows confidence, courage and bravery which makes you feel to people they can count on you because you're going to put yourself out on a limb because you have integrity, because you're not afraid. It kind of puts you in the position of fearless leader and people feel held by that. People feel like they can rest in your confidence and then maybe they can have a little bit more confidence. Maybe they can be a little more bold in the things that they say. And so I don't say unpopular belief because sometimes people have unpopular beliefs that are hateful. And that is not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the thing that's going to punch down or put someone in danger or as bigoted in some way. There's plenty of unpopular beliefs people should keep to themselves in my opinion. But I'm talking about the unpopular belief. The thing that should be said that people are afraid to say because they're afraid they're gonna lose business that's the thing you should say in my opinion. Yeah, that's totally. Yeah, that's essentially how I feel like my business hasn't put on a map as well. So I'm really glad that you're saying this because, yeah, years ago, I started to say my unpopular belief, which some of my niche mates disagree with, which is fine, like you said, it's a conversation. But I always say, I'm anti, you're anti-capitalist, I'm anti-funnel. Like I'm like, that's really, I mean, really, I think when I started creating content consistently in like 2014, 2015, that was what I was leading with. I was like, I don't like sales funnels and here's why. And people were like, oh my God, such a relief. Like I feel like if your unpopular belief could give people relief, like, oh my God, that means I don't have to do that anymore or I don't have to hold that burden anymore. That's awesome. Or like you said, if it could make people go F, yeah, or hell, hell, yeah, that's someone said it, you know? Like I thought maybe I was weird. So that's like, okay, give relief or heck, yeah, I'm totally with you, sister or brother, or if there was, oh man, I thought I was weird in thinking that, you know? It's like all of these unpopular beliefs, many others are kind of in the closet about, right? It's like when you say, you're like, okay, yes, there's others who feel like I do and we can talk from there. And so I really, yes, absolutely. So in fact, I wanna welcome those who are watching this or hearing this comment below the video and share with us what is your, what do you think your most unpopular belief might be? And I'm not saying that just so I can get comments on the video, I don't care about that, but I do care about what people's unpopular beliefs are. Whether you wanna comment below, share it on your social media and see what happens. So Rebecca, I wanna ask you this. So what if I do have a lot of people in my audience who they have a side to them, maybe that they lean into a little bit much, which is, yeah, not very confident, right? Which is shy, you get different ways to think. You can introverted or afraid to be vulnerable publicly or they don't want to be criticized. How would you, how would you encourage those people regarding this? Entrepreneurship is an art and if you're an entrepreneur, you're an artist and sharing art is vulnerable. If you read a poem on stage, it would feel the same way. If you wrote a song and sang that on stage, if you did a dance on stage, if you had an opening at an art gallery for your first opening, it doesn't matter what you're showing to the world. It is scary to show your stuff and then the breaks. But the more you do it, the easier it gets. So I think it's also in line with this algorithm conversation of all of this, have you ever read the War of Art? I have read bits of it. I know the general gist of it. Of course, it's been around a lot within my circles, but yeah. Yeah, so Stephen Pressfield in that book talks about resistance with the capital R. And I think these conversations about the algorithm when you're just getting started are resistance with the capital R. It's just any way, any excuse to get out of the discomfort of being seen and having your beliefs be seen and having your art, which is, in this case, your business be seen, and there's truly no way around it. You actually just have to do the work and you actually have to show people your work and it is hard at first and then it's less hard. You just keep doing it. I've also seen resistance show up as, I've been working with a client for a while and I'm wondering what's going on, like what's getting in the way and then I find out that they only really put an hour toward their business a week. And I'm like, oh, so it's a hobby. Resistance shows up as just not being in your business, like putting work in. So I think you were asking, I forgot the original question, you were asking Peter. That's a really good way because a lot of those who are, I guess for lack of a better word, shy quote unquote, about sharing their unpopular belief is, you're right, artists and that's a really good way of putting it. We have that side to us. I mean, it's often the artists who are more counter-cultural and willing to or more sensitive towards certain values and are shy about sharing those values. So I really well said, I really like how you said it. And I'll just also add that, remember that there are already people who would feel relief at what you said or say, heck yes, thank you or say, I'm not the only one. And you probably, dear shy person or you probably already know a couple of people who would rally you on with that unpopular belief. And so my suggestions go and post about it and then quickly or share with a couple of those people, trusted friends, colleagues to say, I'm about to say this. And will you support me in saying this? And when you do send the link to them and say, I said it or something and watch the support make you stronger, right? So that you can like you said, show up again and again. And I agree with you. The more you do it, the more it's like, oh, I can do this. You either grow thicker skin or you grow a better strategy for dealing with the inner critic and the outer critics, right? Okay, so this is really good. Thank you for bringing this up. I also wanna ask you about you know, how do you describe your work? Unless people are so, yeah, I find this so hard. Myself included, right? Describe our work and without as much struggle and the way that resonates with people. Any tips you can offer there? Yeah, so another thing that I've noticed over time is that when people sit down to write something, it often comes out and I'm talking marketing copy. It either comes out as really academic or really clever neither of which strike the heart of the people we're trying to talk to. So what I have found is that writing like we talk is the way to go. And in order to capture that sometimes sitting down to write is not the way to go. Sometimes we should just talk into our phone or have a friend ask us questions and do a Zoom call like this and have a friend say, okay, what do you do? What are you passionate about? Why do you do what you do? What is the core belief that drives this business? How did your business get started? What's the road that led you here? And just talk and then transcribe what you said and there's your about me page. And you can do that for all kinds of sections of your website or for a copy that you use on social media. But I find that in marketing copy this natural conversational way of being is so much more resonant. And you're gonna end up saying things that you wouldn't have said if you sat down and wrote. Some of us are different. Some of us are writers and we already write like we talk or it kind of flows. But a lot of people get in their way when they sit down to write something and they just need to talk excitedly to a friend about what they're passionate about. And then it comes out, right? It's awesome. Such a good tip. I mean, transformational method really. It's like I hope everybody watching this will actually try it, actually do it. Get together with a friend, a colleague, somebody who, you know, you could do it with each other. Hey, can we take an hour and half hour we'll just swap, right? Is this something you do with clients as well? Yes, but I'm phasing out my one-on-one work. So this is what I've been doing for years is I just say, you talk, I type. And I physically, I'm like their little secretary. I'm a fast type, I just capture everything they say and I ask them questions and do it that way. And then we turn that copy into their website copy or whatever. But I am turning these one-on-one sessions into group coaching at some point. I just haven't created that offering yet. But yes, I do. I have to talk to you about that possibility. And I think group coaching is actually a great idea because guess what? You're bringing together people that can potentially support each other following this method. And then, you know, you're kind of supporting the method that you're helping them use it more effectively with each other. So that's really cool. Well, tell us about what is, yeah. I mean, you know, what are you offering right now and how can people reach out to you and what should, you know, I'll put the links below too of course. But go ahead. Yeah, so okay, so right now I'm in the middle of content cultivation course. This is the second time I've offered it and now it's back to being a wait list. So any of these offerings you can find at my website, rebeccavandam.com slash offerings. So content cultivation course at this point is a 30 day program to help people get consistent online. Have my thing is strategy plus systems plus structure equals sanity. And that's what I'm helping people do there. And I'll do it again. I just don't quite know when. The other thing I offer is a monthly free Q&A that I call content strategy cafe. It's every first Friday and it's an hour of ask me anything. And so that's another thing that I'm doing. And then eventually I will have more offerings, group coaching and things like that. And I'm figuring it out. But if you sign up for either of those email lists, you'll end up on my newsletter and you'll be the first to know when new stuff drops. So it's Rebecca Van Dam, that's Rebecca, just like it's typically spelled R-E-B-E-C-C-A-V-A-N Van. Dan is D-A-M-M-D-A-M-M, rebeccavandam.com. That's the main site. And yeah, I'll put the links below rebeccavandam.com slash email is email list and the offerings is rebeccavandam.com slash offerings, which is a nice, nice link there. Awesome, it's been great to have you in this conversation. I really enjoyed it myself and I think there are some really key perspective shifts and action steps that you mentioned that I think folks maybe rewind a little bit and watch it again perhaps if you'd like and take action on it because I think it will make a difference. Any parting words of encouragement or anything else you want to share before we go? Well, I just want to thank you so much, George. I really love the work that you do. I'm always telling people about your offerings and I think that you feel a very important niche in this marketing work that we do. So I'm happy you're around and I'm so glad to finally get to talk to you. I am too. I'm so glad to bring you on and have you share. So thank you for what you do. I know you do a lot of support for Tad's content strategy as well. So I've seen his content really blossom in the past, I guess, a year or so since you've been working with him. So I know it's working. Yay. Good job, good job. Thank you. Thank you so much. Good to see you. Yeah, good to see you and thanks for showing up for this. Cool, bye.