 Well, we're back with the breakfast and plus TV Africa second conversation for us. We have a mecca opera legal practitioner and a political analyst He joins us this morning. Emeka is good to have you join us So I like to show your thoughts on the consent of the acting chief justice of Nigeria Cautioning or whose caution politicians and members of the executive arm of government to refrain from the acts that may undermine the judiciary and endanger the nation's democracy Categorically stating that all for the years. That's been executive interference in the, you know judiciary Cancer if I may use that expression It takes several sides, there are several sides to it First of all, I want to say that the majority of The men and women in the bench Are above board Um, it only takes an insider Uh, people who work In the judiciary or who work in the who have some like lawyers and people in the bench To understand the Hard-working hub You can imagine as a practitioner you take several days to A week sometimes to research on one particular week and for every court in Nigeria now a judge goes has to go Get submitted to to to this or her court Maybe 20 days in a day sometimes a bit less sometimes more and The Technology to do some of these things and all yet fully Applied and have to do a lot of things manually if you're writing long-hand Most times and they have to go and recite to make sure that The bridge from the opposing sides in any particular case That they don't undo the fields to any They have to research and make sure they come up with what is the just Uh aspect of the law so I want to commend the Members of the judiciary the bench especially um, but there are a few that give The judiciary a bad name a few And that is where we'll come to the other players You have the politicians that have been mentioned by the acting season And uh, you have the lawyers that uh collaborate with them and you have other players Um, I think this the issue of executive interference started with the military The military government over time The high-handedness the pressure they put upon the judiciary and blackmail and threats intimidation of the bench and Because there was hardly any constitutional cushion For the members of the bench Many of them somehow not many some succumbed Uh, somehow to an extent So it's actually Asked to take a lot of we'll have to um Done some Good with respect to judicial independence That he has also undermined the judiciary a lot I have to tell you that That we'll have to go beyond that we'll have to build our institutions We'll have to go to make the judiciary stronger and more independent Then having said that We have to talk about the There are lawyers in collaboration because sometimes powerful businessmen powerful politicians They may not have direct access to the judges They go to lawyers and these are most times senior lawyers very senior lawyers And so when we are talking about this issue you cannot say without the lawyers involved So we have to And and some of the judges that are involved So we have to make sure that laws are made That these people when they are convicted Okay, when they are prosecuted That they are prosecuted swiftly and when they are convicted they don't go away with a slap on the wrist You throw the whole book on them That is how it has to be done And I have to also say that part of this understanding that the judiciary is corrupt or the judiciary they have paved into undue influence Both of it also is not true Both of it is the impression created By for example, some lawyers and some litigants And some politicians Now, I give you an instance There are situations Some unscrupulous Lawyers who have done made the name of a judge And say look you bring the money I will make sure you treat it and the judge may be oblivious of this And he's doing his work And has nothing at all to do with that law And the lawyer will collect and turn the image of the judge This happens And then there are also ways in the world you have Judges who are openly biased Who are showing some bias Who pander unnecessarily to the executive and to the politician There are a few judges who do that So I think In the next dispensation We'll have to do a serious house cleaning Of both the bath and the bench Because we cannot do one without the other And make sure that Infections Of the source we that that makes the reputation of the judiciary that they are honest With me and adequately All right, so this My Very very interesting thoughts you shared with us the makeup. I mean you were a lawyer So we can actually basically sit back and just allow you you know and just soak in there You're going to answer all the questions that others asking you've actually answered To a large extent the next question I had on my list for you, which is what are the specific acts that the law the politicians in court with the Members of the bar and bench What are these acts that they they undertake that you know undermine the judiciary and and and Invariably endanger the nation's democracy you've talked about influence peddling that some Lawyers very senior lawyers that that may be senior advocates of Nigeria You know pedal their influence and go, you know, you know Go shopping, you know You know a box of politicians that I've forgotten what to call it again And they tell them oh I can I can get to these judgments Just you give me the case and invest in me and bring this amount of money and you get this judgment Um, um, you also talked about the fact that some of these judges also directly interfered with politicians Um looking at the independence of the judiciary the issue one of the issues that has been highlighted has been a financial autonomy uh Is that the the the panacea for all of this looking at the the moves by the president like you rightly said He's brought some reforms to make the judiciary judiciary more independent, especially financially But looking at the procedure of appointment of chief judges of the states because that's where the racket starts from Who the chief judges that's where the racket starts from because of course, you know that the Sorry to say not all chief judges But if what do you think is anything to go by then that's where it starts up who assigns the case files You know as far as the state judiciary is a concern when it comes to the chief justice of the country a chief judge of nigeria Chief justice of nigeria. So who? Who appoints him, you know, who approves his appointment? We've seen a plethora of cases across the states where they are They're disagreements, you know about who is going to be the chief judge Justice of the chief judge of the state a case in point is that of days your coach In river state amongst others. You also have the one in cross river state Recently the lady. So is it about financial autonomy? Well, is that going to be the solution or should we also look at reforming the process of appointment of the chief justice of nigeria and the The heads of the judiciary in the states Um, thank you for asking that question. You know, I alluded to me tell you to be tell you Um, that yes on that the president dispensation They are doing some movement with respect to financial autonomy But it doesn't end there Not at all. You've mentioned the issue of appointment of The chief judge. I think we should go even before there before the appointment of chief justices The appointment of judges The appointment of judges it used to be the case that The members of the bench the judges would be looking out For people that will replace them people they will call it used to be a call to the bench It used to be a call to service Um, because of your performance, they will call you and say We want you to come over to this side because you know the law because of because of your advocacy And because of the integrity and the respect and the your kind of in the back You will be called to the bench It used to be that it is no longer so is now issue of book has a longer leg That is the way it is most mostly and find out That people will not to be in the bench Are called to the bench and once you get there you start going up the steps and at the point over time If you are somebody that compromises If you're a judge that will not really know the law There are some that are not really well granted. I have to say so. I have I have said it before that Majority of the majority of the members of the bench are people of integrity people of the law People know how to work themselves to justice despite all the pressure. All right, but there are a few of them So we have to go beyond that and we have to talk about the appointment of judges. Then you come to the chief judge the governor or the president as the case may be in terms of the this judiciary of the The high court of the state or the high court or the court of appeal implies We have to go now And the president will respond to the federation No We have to go In summary I'm barris said that The power to a point should be taken away from the executive or to approve You know, she'll be taken away from the executives. That's what you're saying um The I do not totally Subscribe to that because you have to be clear some balance. Okay. We have to go. We have to go. Emeka. Thank you so much For being part of the show. I'm hoping that we would have more time to talk about this We'll probably continue with the conversation some of the time But we appreciate uh this morning and your thoughts and the insight you have brought on the issue Thank you so much. Thank you very much Thank you And that's the size of our package right here on the breakfast. There's a lot to talk about Yeah, so a list of uh voltage and susu wife's adjudges in one of the papers I saw nine names and I laughed I scoffed because it's way more than that. I can even give 15 You know, but anyway, uh, please follow us on our social media platforms Facebook twitter instagram and on youtube at plus cv africa We have a second youtube account plus cv africa lifestyle My name is kofi bartels. We return tomorrow morning with more on the breakfast And I am missable for to have a fantastic morning