 This is the 23rd regular meeting of the 2009 2010 Common Council and as is customary our city clerk Sue Richards will read the quote of the evening Thank You mayor Teamwork is the ability to work together toward a common vision the ability to direct individual Accomplishments towards organizational objectives. It is the fuel that allows common people to attain Uncommon results. Thank you, Sue a very timely quote this evening Moving on the roll call, please one here bulk excused Bowers Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Koth Kittlesen Clayunas Montemayor Rindfleisch Siric Vanderwheel Voo and Wongamon 15 present quorum is present now a vice president Heidemann can lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance, please Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Joe Grab a motion and a second to approve the minutes of the prior council meeting under discussion No discussion all in favor say aye opposed Motion carries mayors appointments attorney McLean I Hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration Marjorie Madden to be considered for appointment to the housing authority to fill the unexpired term of Perry Brugink whose term expires 430-2014 signed by the mayor that lies over and Mary no wacky to be considered for appointment to the senior activity Center Commission to fill the unexpired term of William Nighoos whose term expires 430-2013 signed by the mayor President Gisha Thank You your honor a motion to confirm Mary Narwaki as presented second. We have a motion in a second under discussion There's no discussion all in favor say aye opposed motion carries moving on information of mayors appointments, which we just did Public forum Thank You mayor. We have five people this evening first on the list would be major health storm Would you like to step up to the mic please? And make sure that the mic you've got it up close to you so everyone can hear and I need your address I'm here representing the Salvation Army and their address is 710 Pennsylvania Avenue Okay, and you will have five minutes sir. Thank you very much Well mayor Ryan and distinguished members of the council. I'm here to offer words of gratitude to a Probably a thankless job sometimes and Some of the tough decisions that you have to make well one of the decisions that is made is how to use community development block grant dollars and the Salvation Army has been a recipient in the past and has Been a recipient this year and we want to thank you for helping to support our red shield free clinic and our housing assistance program Our red shield free clinic in 2008 helped one thousand one hundred and sixty four clients and in 2009 that number went up to one thousand three hundred clients and The sixteen thousand dollars that we're going to receive this year of community development block grant dollars will go a long way in helping clients here in 2010 our housing assistance program Helped one thousand two hundred and fifty three clients in 2008 and in 2009 that number also went up to one thousand three hundred and seventy four clients or cases and Again thirty nine thousand dollars will help us in 2010 the red shield free clinic helps people who are uninsured and People who are impoverished that is a program I think that is quite timely and yet we've been doing this for 18 years and The city has been part of that with these dollars Since the beginning Our housing program housing assistance program is a one-stop shop for our clients for housing issues our helps with a comprehensive approach with multiple layers to their problem-solving and We do that with Rental assistance housing counseling and mediation services And so not to go on too much longer. I just want to again say thank you to the city for Allocating those dollars to us. They are critical to our programs and Crucial to the indigent in our community. Thank you very much. Thank you Thank you major health Next next on a list is Michael Hutz Mike, can I have your home address, please? Sure 1271 Kauffman Avenue in Sheboygan 1271 Kauffman correct And you will have five minutes or thank you very much Good evening mayor Ryan sue Steve and alderman. I Welcome this opportunity to meet with you again regarding the proposed change to the table of organization 12 of you heard me last week, so I will try not to be repetitive Initially, let me remind you that you created a government structure committee and ask it for a recommendation on Sheboygan's future leadership That committee presented you with a unanimous and enthusiastic endorsement of the city administrator concept Since that time the greater Sheboygan committee composed of Sheboygan business leaders and the Sheboygan County Taxpayers Alliance have also backed this position 28 Wisconsin cities have full-time administrators 24 with a part-time mayor and four with a full-time mayor Clearly, this is a proven concept for local government and it deserves your review before any unproven reorganizational plan is considered Allow me to detail some misconceptions in the mayor's plan First he called his plan budget neutral and used the elimination of a $62,000 a year job for a portion of the funding for his directors The only problem is that that position had already been deleted from the 2010 budget. You can't cut a position twice Even if you believe the mayor's figures Isn't it unusual that suddenly dollars appear in a recently passed budget that can be used to fund his proposal? Second the mayor touts savings in the HR function which appear to be tainted The HR budget shows salaries of 89,000 which I believe to be understated But he does not speak of the additional $40,000 for negotiation arbitration expense and 20,000 for contracted services not to mention an undisclosed amount for the development of non-represented pay plan The beauty of a city administrator is that many of them handle some of the HR function And can reduce these expenses Most disturbing to me is that Mayor Ryan publicly indicated his choice for the director of operations is Dave Lutsky a Shocking comment in that we were led to believe that there would be a nationwide search for the right individual This endorsement calls into question the validity of the entire hiring process Even if you supported the mayor's plan you now have to be concerned that the best candidate may not be chosen I think there's reason for alarm here and certainly the appearance of nepotism Mayor Ryan's proposed plan adds a multiple level of management Complete with more bureaucracy additional management confusion and increases in salary The dynamics of management salaries is that you will be paid more than the people you supervise Accordingly with the rapid increase in salaries for the police and fire chief the director of operations will soon be paid equal to that Of a proven city administrator, but with only a portion of the responsibilities Under the mayor's plan each of the three directors will report to multiple excuse me to multiple automatic committees Which is invitation for overlap conflicts and infighting with that right background? I can only ask why do we need a new tier of three directors when the duties and responsibilities can be handled by one Individual who is trained in local government There are other concerns which arose as a result of the mayor's presentation First the choice is not just between the mayor's plan and doing nothing as he stated The choices are the mayor's plan the city administrator and doing what is best for shabuaga The city is going to invest in reorganization Why not maximize the benefits by obtaining the best possible level of management? Which would be a well-trained administrator who brings municipal management expertise an independent viewpoint and professional analysis Despite what you were led to City administrators do not replace mayors nor do they cost more than an unproven director of operations Many of you have indicated your future support for a city administrator in shabuagan. I ask if in the future Why not now? Take the time to compare the mayor's unproven plan to the proven concept of an administrator as Detailed in the report of the government structure committee As elected officials you should demand the biggest bang for your taxpayers buck and you'll get that with an administrator I Agree with the mayor that shabuagan government and management are in need of reorganization However, there is no mandatory timetable for reorganizational Implementation only the expectation of our community that it be done correctly If you're going to restructure do it right and to do so you must take the time to review all options Not just the mayor's proposal Excuse me Mike five minutes rep. Would you like your additional minute? Okay, go ahead Thank you very much Mayor Ryan has continually informed us that he will be the mayor for the next three years and that he needs his plan well I'm going to be a resident and taxpayer in shabuagan for the rest of my life and What I need is an organization that it that develops and maintains the continuity of leadership To manage our community efficiently and effectively in the face of an ever-changing political climate His plan simply does not accomplish that Thank you for giving me the time to present my opinion. Thank you Mike. Thank you Mike next Next on the list is Eldenberg Boy, he's a tall guy, isn't he? Elden can I have your home address please My name is Eldenberg and I live at 406 Clement Avenue in the great first district of the city of shabuagan All right, you have five minutes sir. Okay. Thank you very much I'm speaking to you this evening as a member of the greater shabuagan committee and like to start mayor Ryan We support your efforts to restructure How the city is wrong? historically we have Been in support of a city administrator and for those of you who would wish to learn more of that I would commend you to our website, which is located at W. W. W. Greater shabuagan Dot org we differ somewhat in terms of the path We see reorganization taking in this evening I am asked that you give the city administrator equal time or do consideration along with the mayor's plan a Mayor I got to know you well during the year that we were up here together and I'd have to say that sales is your forte Tonight the target audience is the council and I've got to say that before the mayor moves in to hand you the pen and close The deal I'd like to see if I can create a little buyer's remorse Simply put I think that there is another product that that deserves some consideration It's delivered proven results It's cost-effective and it also can improve Aldermanic quality of life as well as that of our residents and taxpayers of course. I'm talking about a city administrator If you recall our initial report we cite the Wisconsin taxpayers association study in 2007 there were 22 medium-sized cities shabuagan is one of those Eight of the 11 with the lowest per capita spending had professional managers the original Government study committed submitted a report approximately a year ago at that time it recommended that a legislative path that could provide for refinement of this concept and inclusion in this year's budget Unfortunately, it wasn't until October 29th that Alderman rim flesh had the opportunity to present a 10 or 15 minute overview of those recommendations That was at the time when mayor Ryan rolled out his proposal, which has been the centerpiece of ongoing discussion There has not been the opportunity for a side-by-side comparison I listened very carefully to the subsequent discussion and feel the need to provide some clarification First off a city administrator has no role or responsibility than that that you give them as Elected you provide the vision you provide the mission you establish the policies You set the measurable goals and objectives and commit the resources the Administrator with ensuring these actions are implemented across all departments They are not a city manager nor do they replace the mayor and they do not assert his or your authority. I Have also heard that a city administrator should only come about as a result of a referendum If installing one manager requires a referendum wouldn't installing three require your three This is why we have elected folks and that's part of the reason that you are up here because many of you Took a stand during the last election in support of a city administrator. I find it peculiar that now Many have stated well, I'm all for a city administrator But not now maybe some other time and it's I reminded of the side and the local tavern that says free beer tomorrow Then they come back tomorrow and the sign says, okay I asked a couple things is it Logical to create a tier of three managers so that eventually you can have one if you really want three Managers wouldn't it be easier to start with one? Also, is it realistic to create a new tier of management that would require either demotion or termination? within three to five years or The other alternative is to create a top of this tier another tier for a city manager Please do not tie the hands of future councils with this choice Tonight although you may pass this to you you have yet a steep hill to climb The fact that these positions were not budgeted will require a two-thirds vote of this council to move the money from the five Cost-centers where the money is currently committed for other actions This is a particular dangerous and risky move given that we are only two months into the budget year and Yet already you must confront other unbudgeted needs tonight. You will make decisions It's irrespective of this with total almost a quarter of a million dollars in unbudgeted requests Thus I ask you take the time to compare take the time to provide direction of the government structure committee Set that that this matter can be quickly deliberated early in the 2010 and 2011 legislative year and Return to you for consideration. I can assure you as chairman of that committee. It will receive our top priority. Thank you Exactly five minutes, okay And for a psychologist you're not too bad of a salesman All right next on our list is Vince mua if you'd like to come up to the front, please Thank you Vince. Can I have your home address 30 17, Michigan Avenue 30 17? Yes 30 17, Michigan And you will have five minutes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Good evening ladies and gentlemen Just I'm Coming to add to the structure of the Shabbat County here Well, first of all, I just want to bring up a little bit of my issue. I have a We have an icing issue on my block 30th in Michigan So I have the city inspector came on inspect it. I got a letter beginning of the month So as soon as I got that letter, I've been calling all month So I hear one guy's out one guy's covering So, you know, I left messages Handful of time I called my wife's called So, I mean my handful her handful. That's quite a bit of phone calls I just expected a phone call back so I can kind of know which direction to go I've kind of exhausted my resources to I should get a hold of So I talked to a brand to cover all the people I know around town They said well, you should probably go down in a meeting and bring it up Maybe you know somebody you'll hear you out and maybe they'll take care of it You know my I I believe the storm a drain is is plugged from the rain the nice little bit of rain we got on a lot of last month So I believe that's blah, that's probably to blame for the problem But you know for something to come I just cite all the neighbors or my myself and my neighbor You know that maybe it's our fault that it's it's backed up like that So that's my issue right there So if anybody can help me on that department just let me know or get it Yeah, I get give me a name or somebody to contact with take care of that other than that I hear There's some restriction going on, you know, I'd like to support that, you know, whatever since, you know Wherever that direction that might be going, you know, I would like to see it run as a business I myself, you know work with a lot of people too. So You know, like I say it's just common courtesy if I call you give me a call back So That's my that's my issue right there So anytime come up here and talk to everybody and kind of see how things work up here Thank you And last on our list is Joe signal Joe, can I have your home address, please 1522 Alabama have no And I don't know how I'm gonna follow them gentlemen or here And he got all the figures and what can I follow it with what I'm gonna say Mr. Mayor and comment council. I Wish you take your time on rejuvenating our government because it's going too fast Take your time. This is a serious matter. I don't know if you realize it or not But I hope this doesn't get shoved down our throat like the ambulance did and That Lot of people don't know we have to pay extra for a paramedics We're and for upkeep of these ambulances. Where does the money come from? Now we had a private ambulance nobody complained about it, but we had to push this ambulance deal on us And now they want a pump a pumper truck. Where is this money coming from? I thought we were so desperate that it's we they laid off how many in the other departments What about the rest of our city? I Don't get me wrong. I ain't pushing. I ain't against the fire department But we got to do first things first and this is going too fast Now maybe the ambulance which should have been I feel should have been put to a referendum But if we didn't have no choice in that Is this gonna this should be put in the referendum if you're that serious about it or is this getting to be Political or is it already? Thank you Thanks, Joe. Thanks, Joe That is it for public form. Thank you everybody for speaking at public forum this evening President Gisha has a short issue here known as the Financial information form or as we've dubbed it the Flife President Gisha Thank you. I'll be brief And If your honor doesn't mind I'll just turn my back and direct this to the council. Thank you somewhat improper based on a rule Everyone was supplied with a form To look at this has been worked out with City clerk Richards and finance director Terry Hansen The purpose of this form is it says in the top is to accompany all resolutions and ordinances That require the expenditure of funds Let me just tell you what it's trying to accomplish and what it's it's hoped to accomplish and by doing that I could probably use as an example That's best you have in your packet under document 23 26 a Resolution authorizing the purchase of some air street sweepers less trade from the motor vehicle division. This was prepared by our city purchaser On the back. He's actually filled out the form to kind of give you an example Oftentimes we as alderman and citizens see documents come through the council last week I'll use the example of the purchasing of new police cars The obvious question is is it budgeted or is it not budgeted? It's never shown on the documents a Form accompanying this gives citizens and alderman an idea as to whether where these monies are coming from If they were budgeted in our budget Is there any amount money left after this expenditure and if it isn't budgeted, please explain where the funds are coming from Does it require additional staff time? Are there other additional expenses? It's a fairly short form But as alderman sometimes you may find your name on documents as well Maybe because you're a committee chairman. Maybe because you had interest in a specific subject Well, this actually has that person in the city who's trying to do the right thing and get those documents in actually have Contact with you because this document requires your signature as an alderman and my signature is an alderman For the expenditure of funds that you've reviewed this if in fact, it's filled out by a department head Or if it hasn't been filled out by a department head, it's been filled out by you And this this form is to just give better information to the council To individual alderman when their names get put on things and to the general public who are watching and are here Who often see things in our agenda about the expenditure of funds and the obvious question is did you plan for this? If the city plan for the expenditure of these funds this answers all those questions It also gives a heads up to our finance department to know if an unbudgeted item is coming through that they have to plan for that and It it should involve some interaction between the finance department and the old Department head for it goes any further There is a resolution tonight that I'm gonna ask to be Actually, there isn't a resolution a resolution will follow. This is kind of a test case. We're hoping everybody gets on board with this There will be a resolution introduced for your consideration that makes us a requirement in our in our code In our ordinances actually, it'll be It's not an ordinance change just a resolution requiring that all expenditure of funds have a document that accompanies this But if everybody could just take a look at this and any sort of additional feedback From it and begin using it. That would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Thank you president Gisha, this is a big move toward an additional fiscal transparency in the city. I Thank you. Oh Now my favorite part the mayor's announcements We have a few items here tonight all of them Good and light-hearted in a way Number one st. Baldrick's day. I don't know if everybody's familiar with it So take off on st. Patrick's day. However, it's held the following Sunday from st. Patrick's day St. Baldrick's is spelled B. A. L. D. R. I. C. K. S. kind of like Patrick's but bald in the front This is a fundraiser that benefits childhood cancer research The idea is you join a team. I myself am on the Anna's rainbow team, which is Anna Tarnowski who is a young Person that goes to school with my children Anna has had cancer for a couple of years as a matter of fact her brother Lipped our Christmas tree this year our city Christmas tree and I have decided to join her team and March 21st. I am going to lose my hair for the cause My head will be shaved at a place known as urbane On a the Michigan. I've never been there myself But I I'm trying to raise $10,000 myself for the cause. I'm only about a tenth of the way there However, I've only been working on it for a few days If anybody would like to donate the website is www.saintbaldrick's.org I Believe that's it St. Baldrick's org is correct My ID number three seven eight two six six or you can call the mayor's office And get on board with this. It's a great cause So if I'm a little bit different here on the 22nd of March remember, it's all for a good cause. So that is that another issue of Sheboygan County food bank Roundies which is closed at the moment started today They're looking for volunteers to help move A lot of the items in roundies to the county food bank Looking for volunteers. It started today from 8 30 a.m to 5 o'clock p.m They are donating all of the leftover food in the roundies store to the food bank great cause I will be there at least one day myself this week Which one I don't know I have to squeeze it into the schedule If you are interested dial 457-7272 extension 12 We've been getting a lot of calls on the 4th of july and memorial day parades The 4th of july parade it will be on saturday the 3rd Of july all 4th of july activities will be on saturday the 3rd The parade also the fireworks that evening will be on the 3rd. So put that on your calendar The official 4th of july holiday federal holiday is on the 5th which is monday Johnsonville again will be sponsoring the fireworks as they have in the past and we thank them for that Memorial day parade this year Is scheduled for monday may 31st at 9 o'clock a.m That is being taken care of by jerry And ingrid wendiger again this year And for everybody interested in participating in the parade their number is 458-9944 Last announcements is the census everybody will be receiving census forms in the mail in the mail this week We also have census workers that will be coming coming around Banging on the doors of people that don't return their forms Of course, if you don't want somebody banging on your door, please return your form It's very important that everybody in the city be counted a lot of our Our federal funding is dependent upon population and the income of population and if we don't count people Obviously, we don't uh, cannot participate in their funding. So that is starting this week. Look for the forms in your mail All the person clueless Thank you, mayor. I just want to remind everybody that's committee at the whole meeting this wednesday at 5 30 We just had a meeting last week. So you might think you're off the hook for a while But we have another one on wednesday 5 30 That is all I have for mayor's announcements tonight We will go down to the consent agenda president geisha Thank you your honor I moved to accept and file all reports of officers accept and adopt all reports of committees and pass all resolutions and ordinances We have a motion in a second consent agenda is 23 dash 1 through 23 13 we have Alderman Bowers has closed in Thank you 232 Alderman Bowers, can you grab your microphone, please? Oh, yeah I'm looking at 232 And although there isn't any address on this I was wondering on further documents that come before us I noticed there was some that were Removing the taxes or we're not going to collect the taxes on and they're all tax numbers if we could have the addresses of these Put in our on the agenda It would it would help a lot. So I don't know where this is This 232 is located. So is there any way an address could be put on these? It's on the next page alderman bowers. It's 45 39 south taylor drive. Okay, the actual easement is attached It's on the document itself. Yeah all right Thank you alderman bowers Any further discussion? If there is none roll call, please boran bowers decker gisha hanna Heidemann kath kittleson clayunas montemayor rindfleisch suric van der wheel voo and wangaman 15 eyes motion carries. I misspoke. I had 23 1 through 23 Oh 23 13. I believe is what I said. Yep. Thank you Okay, communications and petitions 23-14 to be referred Reports of officers 2 23-15 will be held for Oh, that will be held for a the other trucks the other trucks coming up later on in the in the meeting here um 23 16 through 23 23 will be referred 3 24 resolutions introduced 3 23 By alderman gisha directing that the various committee's commissions either be merged eliminated or reassigned at the end of the current council year President gisha Thank you, your honor. This is in an effort to somewhat streamline the 59 different committees the city has There's been some discussion on a couple of them and some additional ideas. I asked that it be referred to the public works committee We have a motion to refer to the public works committee. Do we have a second? Motion in a second under discussion There is none all in favor say aye Opposed will be referred to public works 23 25 through 23 27 to be referred reports of committee 6 23-28 by law and licensing recommending denying beverage operators license number 84 74 based upon his failure to include all relevant convictions on his application and his failure to cooperate with the committee Alderman boran Thank you, mayor Ryan. I move that the report of the committee be accepted and adopted We have a motion in a second under discussion under discussion. Mayor is dana muses here tonight It's not here. Mayor. Please continue um, mr. Muses had Two opportunities to appear before the committee and chose not to appear before the committee So lack of cooperation with the committee And therefore the committee voted unanimously to deny the license Thank you. Alderman boran any further discussion There is none roll call. Please powers Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Koff Kittleson Cleanness Montemay or Rindflash Suric Vanderweal Voo Wongamon and boran I 15 eyes motion carries 23-29 through 23 30 to be referred reports of committee 7 23-31 This will be coming up later in the agenda. This is going to We can hold this. Yes. Yes. We will hold that for later on in the agenda and we can hold the next 23 31 by ppns And 32 we're going to hold also. Yes, we will hold both of those until later on in the meeting Yes, reports of committees 8 23-33 by finance recommending lifting the hiring freeze in order to hire three firefighter paramedics In the shabuigan fire department and passing the attached substitute resolution president gisha Thank you, your honor. I moved that the report of committee be accepted and adopted and The pat in substitute and pardon me in the substitute resolution be put upon its passage. Thank you We have a motion in a second under discussion Alderman Rindflash Thank you, Mr. Mayor on the substitute resolution From the finance committee The resolution asks for the closing of the Fire station number five or actually that the Fire chief be asked to close station number five the south side one and south 18th street Um, my impression in that joint meeting with public protection and safety was that The funding As planned for the three plus the retiree replacement as including the pumper truck Would be able to keep that station open So I make a motion that we strike that beat it for the resolved the fire staff chief closed fire station number five Located at 4504 south 18th street and make all appropriate personnel and service change is necessary to close the fire station the reason for that amendment would be Simply in that south side when there is a train Coming through that area. I'm not willing to put my constituents at an increased risk of death Or property damage from fire Um, if they have to go all the way around so I'm asking for that to be struck. Thank you Thank you. Alderman red flesh and we have a second on the amendment to strike be it further resolved About the closing of fire station number five under discussion on the amendment Alderman boran Thank you, mayor ryan. I would like a clarification from the fire chief Exactly what what this would do by keeping this fire station over keeping keeping this fire station open with the Uh With what we're going to do as far as hiring and et cetera Thank you We have fire chief jeff herman Jeff you want to pull the mic up towards you a little bit Thank you, mayor members of the council. Um, alderman boran if I could get a clarification on that question I was walking up Rinn flesh mentioned that it was said in one of the committee meetings that if we uh Hire the four people That uh, what exactly did you say alderman rinn flesh? I just question whether if we uh, if we keep the station open and with hiring of the three If your personnel is going to be your personnel needs are going to be met To keep the south side station open without the overtime problem. Okay. Uh, one of the issues that part of the funding for the The three firefighters that you're lifting the hiring freeze for is coming out of closing that fire station We are reducing our officer staff by roughly 33 percent The savings in those in that pay is part of what you're funding the three firefighters for So that would have to be restored to keep that station open In addition, there'd be some overtime issues And answer your question Um, next we have alderman bowers Thank you by leaving fire station number five We're not adding uh any more money to uh to the budget By leaving the station open. Mm-hmm. We would have to add money to the you have to have more buddy Plus the pumper truck, which is a half a million dollars Plus three firemen, which is going to run what uh, 300,000 about 135 130. So we're looking at 600 and some thousand dollars additional The 135 is funded from savings and um in the negotiations And savings in the budget The savings in negotiations correct Uh negotiations before the contracts were signed or after The negotiations of the contract signing of the contract which were signed after the budget was passed Firefighters union gave back two percent of their wages, which was 79 thousand dollars So in what we're looking is not any additional money Correct for the funding of the firefighters. There's not any additional money. It's in my budget chief are you aware of any of our Firefighters are members of other fire departments Of other paid departments. I know they are not There are no firefighters on Sheboyin fire department on any other paid any other fire department. I didn't say paid I have no knowledge You have no knowledge of any of your men being volunteers in any other departments There are members that are part of the EMS portion of volunteer fire departments Is this a violation of their union contract? I do not believe so. You don't believe it's not recommended. It's not recommended I I agree right now we're discussing the amendment on the resolution. We're not discussing uh individual firefighters Thank you all them in bowers Next we have uh president geisha Thank you chief if we could just clarify it one more times I think it's a question that i've heard all the way around I've heard that hey if we If we hire the three, I know the fourth is just replacing the retiree if we hire the three Uh, we don't have to close any and we get the pumper We don't have to close anything if you could just kind of clarify that because I think that's a question that's I think everybody's just looking for a solid from you Recommendation as to what we should do and what that effect would be and what would be the effect if we didn't do it Once again part of the savings that are paying for the three firefighters are coming from the closing of that station And that being um, there is a captain no longer required. There are two lieutenants no longer required That comes to roughly 21 000 dollars There are three drivers that are no longer required which is a savings of about 3600 dollars One less vehicle on the road is about 5000 dollars worth of fuel and maintenance cost And then the utilities for the station So if you're going to keep that station open We have to have a captain and lieutenants there so that amount would have to be restored to the budget So that would be an additional amount The rescue pumper is really a separate issue Which also saves three firefighters and helps with our staffing which reduces overtime By by saving three firefighters. You mean it actually Eliminates three positions, correct, correct Thank you Next we have uh, alderman born Thank you, mayor ran chief what would happen if The ambulance service went away and you have four people that are dedicated to the ambulance and the ambulance service went away And we leased the pumper for you Would that solve your personnel problems? And I realized there's the factor that we may lose some revenue because we're You know, the ambulance service is bringing in some revenue. I haven't heard I haven't heard a Figure from our finance director as what it would cost us actually to get out of the ambulance service But my question is if the ambulance service went away and you could dedicate those four people To your personnel needs and we leased the pumper does that solve your personnel problems? Thank you To answer the first part of your question and those four people that were dedicated to the ambulance Are four of the six people that i'm short right now The second part of your question. Yes, if the ambulance went away I'd have more people to spread amongst the stations and with the rescue pumper That would solve our manning issues That's correct Thank you all to be born next we have all the person kittleson Thanks mayor Chief i'm i'm looking here The savings from the closing of the station. That's 15,739 recurring costs. That's what it costs us to keep that Station going. I believe that is a partial figure of the officer's salary Partial that is recurring costs that will not be there anymore So just Just to make the I can't one more time to make this perfectly clear to me we What what was in my thought before is that we hire we get three firefighters possibly a fourth from a retirement We have a fire a pumper truck. We wouldn't need to close the station. That was my understanding We can't that's not That's not correct because some of the monies that I took from closing that are funding the three people that we are looking to hire So that would have to be replaced in the budget, which is not budget neutral than at that point okay So there's no way that we can keep from How do we keep what's the scenario? How can we play this out so we don't have to close the fire station? Those monies would have to be put back Into my budget or not or not actually not put back into my budget but not used for Hiring of the three people three guys Okay, thank you. I think I think that would probably result in in overtime issues Very near future keep keeping a fifth station open will cause Additional overtime because our men are spread out farther and they need to keep the minimum amount amount of people in each station So it is a An additional funding issue And an overtime issue Thank you all the person kittleson next we have alderman renflesh Thank you mr The I'm not pleased with the finances of what we're the situation. We're sitting in as we all know and Somebody raising taxes to fill the hole something that I'm not willing to do I guess some of the questions that we've dealt with is The the animal service has a role in this as well And the understanding that we had received that in the last two years that everyone's service had brought in net $700,000 So that's what we discussed in that committee And without the animal service that that's the hole that we'd have to find $350,000 each year thus far Hopefully more once we get better collections from from our collection service, which we're looking at right now But if that's not enough to keep the fire station, which is what we're based on that fact Um, you know, I there's nothing I can do about that. I can't pull money out of thin air. I understand that However, it seems to me a little short-sighted for the future to close that station in particular The it seems to me that if you look at a map the area of growth for the future in shabuigan is south Is any business park that we want to develop would be south And I don't know how easy it's going to be to to get Business into the business part that we don't have easy access to for a fire station Which we do currently right now On the south side of town Annexation issues we talked about that we can use and we can use the fire service We can use water as a tool to entice Town of wilson to come into the city seems to me though that if we close that particular state We're saying to them is that we want your tax revenue But we don't really care about your lives or your property beyond the tax revenue Who would be willing to to become a member of the city when they're not right now for the particular purposes Um So I will uh retract my motion to close The self-affained station then or the motion to strike excuse me the language on there But um And if the second agrees but then replace that with then the close the downtown fire station instead We had a this the motion was to strike the amendment to close fire station number five Who seconded that amendment would you like to withdraw that? Okay, so that is withdrawn and we have a motion to Replace the closing of fire station number five Uh with the downtown fire station, which is fire station number one We have a motion to close the Downtown fire station fire station number one. Do we have a second on that? We have a second on fire station number one under discussion on this amendment First in Alderman hannah you're left over from last time would you like to discuss that? Okay, next we have alderman boran Thank you, mayor ryan Chief I think you sent sent out in your in your memo that clothing clothing station one as far as Coverage from the other available fire stations is actually easier for you to cover That eventuality than it actually is to close the salty south 18th street. Is that correct? So from a logistic standpoint you can cover this with your other three stations Better than the one on south 18th street I would say that that's a correct assumption that I believe Whichever station you close there's going to be extended response times to that area in the downtown area It would be not as severe as the station five area because we have three stations that converge on this area Thank you alderman boran Next we have president geisha Thank you. Your honor. This is a tough issue and I feel for A lot of the comments that alderman ryan flesh talked about about Funding issue or closing the fire station is not easy for any community stinks The chief sent out a memo to the council members informational memo. I think on friday And i'm inclined to go with the professional opinion on the closing of south 18th street and It's only been there since can somebody help me Five years Four four years and the city's been around how many years alderperson wangeman So we've gone about a hundred and about 153 years without it The train tracks were there during probably a good third of that time And we are not unfortunately in a position to Annex the properties, which is what it was built for There is no additional growth going on of any major site on the way in the south side of shabuigan. So As difficult as it is, I won't support the motion to close the downtown station for the reasons the chief gave alderman boran and because of his communication to us on friday Thank you president gisha if I can Have a small amount of input here um Nobody wants to close the fire station if if we had funds available it wouldn't even be a question However, um, we have to look at the number of calls coming out of fire stations Um and the amount of time in response that that may be added which we we did those numbers I believe earlier in the week And closing the downtown fire station with the number of calls in the downtown fire station, which was over 2000 And the south side was 400. I believe in that, you know round figures um The closing of the downtown station would add significant more delay in overall time another thing we have to look at downtown is the Um rescue boat that the is run by the fire department Um is operated by the downtown station Another thing we have to look at is on the south side right now Um Which this is not my vote obviously this is up to the alderman But on the south side right now, we are actually understaffed in the station We have an engine there a fire truck that takes four people to operate yet We only have two people there at any given time um when it comes to rescue calls Two people can can handle it, but when it comes to fires on the south side I have to send people from the 18th and mead location To meet them to fight a fire With that fire rig that is presently on the south side because we're only staffed at 50 percent of what they need there to Fight fires So that just needs to be taken into consideration. And you know, I just want the the facts to be out there um And and you know, obviously this is the alderman's vote So we have alderman vu Thank you, mayor I will not support the uh amendment for closing station one in downtown because the downtown area mostly are just old houses And there are more chances for houses to get burned South side There's newer houses most of them are newer. So there's less chance of Fires and getting fire So then closer than downtown is a bad idea. So I will not support that Thank you alderman vu Next we have vice president heidemann. Thank you, mayor At finance I did vote to close the station, but since then I've Spoken to a number of my constituents and I believe firmly that it's not the responsibility of finance To pick what station to go but possibly that this should be referred back to public protection of safety where they can Have more of a discussion and look at some of other options as opposed to finance making this decision So I will uh, I don't want to I don't want to close any station But of course I don't want to close one on the south side either. So Is that a uh motion? I'll make that a motion A motion to refer to public protection and safety We have a motion on the floor now We first we have a motion on amending to close the downtown firehouse And a second on that Um alderman rinflash Thank you, mr. Mayor if it's the will of the council to refer back I'll withdraw my motion as point in time if it goes to public protection and safety Alder purse amount to me or withdrawal Okay, we are back to the original document and we have a motion to refer to public protection and safety Do we have a second on that? We have a motion and a second second by alderman suric To refer this document back to public protection and safety regarding Closing regarding hiring the three Funding the hiring of the three positions and closing the south side firehouse Under discussion on that president gisha Thank you I appreciate vice president heidelman's suggestion on sending it back to ppns Rather than it coming out of finance. I would just ask the chief Would you make a different recommendation coming out of ppns than coming out of finance than what we're hearing tonight? I absolutely not the document that I sent out on fray Is my opinion that will be my opinion in the next meeting So if you if this is referred back to ppns, you would do making the same recommendation you're making right now So I would ask what the purpose of that referral Would be when we're here to solve community problems and make decisions We're here. It's in front of us. We have all the information There'll be no additional change from the chief So I will not vote to refer it to ppns because I think we are paid to make decisions good bad or otherwise Thank you president gisha. The discussion is on referring to ppns under discussion older person monta mayor Thank you, mayor ryan. I agree with alderman gisha on this I think we should make the decision tonight unless of course ppns would simply make a different decision on which A fire station to close but I think we should definitely go ahead with lifting the hiring freeze I think Chief herman has to get on with this or all of a sudden it's going to be too late in the season And we're going to have lots of trouble with the overtime budget Thank you all the person monta mayor On referring to ppns all the all the person cough Thank you, mayor ryan. I just like to get the comment in because I was trying to get it in earlier I would just like to reiterate with alderman borne that We would not have to hire any more firemen. We would not have to close Fire stations if we got rid of the ambulance service Correct That's correct, but you'd have a 700 000 hole In this year's budget or depending on which month you shut the fire stations will be open Unless you take that money out of my budget and I have to get rid of more firefighters then no We'd have to close two stations Thank you all the person kath president geisha Thank you. Just to clarify from the finance Standpoint that is absolutely true It as the chief stated You wouldn't be because you'd be at a skeleton crew walking out firemen. You'd be walking out 10 dpw workers You'd be walking out five people at a city hall Five people out of someplace else the ambulance service provides revenue that doesn't go to the fire department It goes to the general fund So in protection of the general fund and in the interest of being full disclosure So the council is making decisions based on fact and not emotion and not half fact Those dollars employ About a dozen people in the city of shabuigan. Take them away. That's fine council has a right to do whatever they wish But then be prepared to find 12 layoffs in the city Thank you president geisha. We are still discussing Sending this to ppns Any further discussion on sending this to ppns Do a roll call vote on that please Uh the question the uh an i vote will send this document to ppns as is geisha hannah Heidemann kath kittlesent clayunas montemire windflash sirk van der wheel voo wangeman moran And bowers no eight eyes seven no's Document goes to ppns for further discussion Okay, where were we? 23 34 23 34 By finance recommending providing Concrete measurable guidelines to a green team of city employees appointed by the mayor to reduce energy fuel and product use in city departments in 2010 president geisha Thank you your honor. I moved at the report of committee be accepted and adopted And the resolution, please be put upon its passage I would like to refer to alderperson clayunas who was a great part of putting this together and ask her if she would To explain the question in finance and and how it's her understanding how the city will be handling it with their management team Thank you president geisha geisha alderperson clayunas Thank you your honor This is a resolution that just gives some general guidelines to the city employees and and the people who manage city buildings and resources to Do some cost-cutting? simple conservation things they're not New ideas at all is just making this a formal Resolution that employees are asked to follow and i'm asking the mayor to appoint Individual employees in different departments to be responsible for the monitoring of this Resolution so that people actually follow through for example turning off lights turning off computers Using paper more wisely not Having heat set us set above a certain temperature or cold settings in the summer set Below a certain temperature all these things are common practices in many businesses in this city already And i'm just bringing it into the city into the city government Policy and procedures so that we can also save money if we do follow and we can save Cost by 10 percent which the county has done by following similar Guidelines we could save the city in a year's time 230 thousand six hundred fifty two dollars in our utility And um fuel costs Okay, thank you. Thank you all the person clayunas Alderman hannah Well, thank you. Uh when i was on the school board we enacted very similar principles our budget was larger Uh, but i think the quote of a million dollar savings that the all the person presented is very realistic Take your alderman hannah Our city attorney steve mclean I think this fine idea in in concept, but i guess i've got a couple selfish issues I've worked for the city for 20 some odd years and Never had to get a space heater But when we moved into city hall My position On the west side there, uh, those aren't energy efficient windows I had to go out and buy myself a space heater and put it down Under my my desk this winter because it was cold If If you could guarantee me that you're going to put in energy efficient windows I gave up the space heater, but uh I I find You know, I haven't needed a space heater for all these years, but I need one in that spot I I believe You've got coffee makers not allowed and that's I take that rather personally too i'm a A rather heavy coffee drinker I bought my own coffee maker. I buy my own coffee Uh, I make it in the office It is there I provide it when we have committee meetings and so forth to others if they wish Uh, to say that that coffee maker is not allowed. You know, that's fine if that's what the council wants to do, but it's I view that as sort of an inconvenience to me, but Everything else in here I don't have a big problem with Other than You got reset margins narrower on all four sides as policy to reduce number of sheets used we use city letterhead And there is a margin on that paper and It wouldn't make any sense to Reset the margins to With all that letterhead we've got You know, I understand again Alderman clay owners don't get me wrong. I think these things are fine in concept, but I just Personally have a problem with some of them When you're saying Those things are not allowed You put in some energy efficient windows On the west side of the building I'd have less of a problem with that The heat I've noticed also we've got somewhat of an issue with As far as uh, and I I don't mean to get nitpicky about this stuff, but I guess I take it If the council is going to say these things aren't allowed that's that's going to be it that will abide by that, but Some of these things This isn't a perfect building. It's not really that energy efficient of a building and uh, I know their Public works is trying to adjust the heaters The the radiators in our office, but There are some days when They don't heat like like they're supposed to And it it does get cold in there So that that's all I've got that's my comment. I just wanted to get that out before This got acted on just so I had my say just look forward to summertime when your office is 90 degrees think just think work No, we do need to spend Some capital improvements money on on especially this building here The the the floor plan of this building right now Does not fit the original heating system We have some offices that have a radiator as big as this one along the wall here That the office is only about twice the size of the radiator And unfortunately, there's other areas that were cut off by the radiator as the additions have gone on And that are that are ice cold, you know, generally this uh one side of the building is too hot The other side is too cold In summertime it's vice versa. So we do we do need to put some money into uh into Into some tech not new technologies In city hall as far as realizing some uh some efficiencies When it comes to energy use and definitely these windows Even if you lock them when you get a good wind, they're still whistling. So You know, we do we do need to put some some capital expenditures into Into improving city hall all the person claims Thank you your honor. Thank you attorney mclean for your interest and general Just say concern about this Just to emphasize these are guidelines To be followed as much as possible I would hope you could share your coffee maker with the whole department And I think you do yeah, and that's what it is that everybody doesn't have their own little coffee pot Their own little refrigerator their own little hot plate whatever it is Set up in a little kitchen next to their desk when there are some facilities In the in the building that could be used. So I'm just using saying this as guidelines and let's negotiate And let's say, you know, if you can't Because the windows let all the draft and maybe negotiate something else in terms of savings that you can do in your department So that we can reach a 10 percent savings Thank you gene Sue um just as another department head wanting to weigh in I hate coffee. Let's get this straight I think that I could probably speak for all the department heads that we are all very concerned and want to do this as much as we can Um, but a good example is in our office You know and everybody will tell everybody this that the heating and the cooling and everything is out of control in the winter When it snows we have a pile of snow in one corner that we could build a snowman with so I mean You know you have those issues, but on the other hand For us and for all the departments. We're trying everything that we can to try to fit these guidelines But there are going to be some That we just simply cannot do because of whatever reason there's just things but we would just know that we will Very diligently work on this Just so that you know that that's where the department heads stand And and there are some some issues in the future as we as we go through our Minor remodeling of city hall that we've been taking part in which we haven't really addressed the mechanicals But even a a central A central lunch room wouldn't be a bad idea for city hall We could put a couple large Refrigerators in there and maybe get rid of some of the Refrigerators in every office. There are some options We will work toward that. My goal is to is to have these discussions in our department head meetings And to have department heads in charge of their own individual efforts in their own departments and they can Obviously refer that Task to somebody in their department, but they will be responsible for their own departments in this matter Any further discussion? There is none roll call, please Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kath Kittleson Playunas Montemayor Rinfleshe Surrock Vanderwheel Vu Wongamon Boran Bowers and Decker 15 eyes Motion carries 23-35 by finance recommending authorized entering into contract for the manufacturer in purchase Of one new rescue pumper apparatus and related equipment for the sheboygan fire department and passing the attached substitute resolution Before we go on can we do something just back up one certainly we've got two documents that we have Remember that we want to file that would be 23 31 23 32, which were duplicates of alderman clayunas's just to file Okay, thank you motion and a second to file the duplicate documents regarding the green effort. Yep all in favor say aye Opposed motion carries Now to 23 35 President gisha Thank you. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted and the substitute resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion and a second under discussion your honor if I may I'd like to ask Fire chief to come on up to give a overall explanation of what we're doing and perhaps the timeliness that Maybe didn't the some felt didn't exist on the last issue regarding the fire station may exist here And if he could explain that I would appreciate it chief hermit Thank you president gisha Once again, thank you. Yes. This is a timeliness issue And it's related to a couple things the vehicle replacement schedule that we have in place Had us replacing a vehicle last year That replacement was not done So this really is a normally scheduled Replacement but by replacing two vehicles with one what this will do is eliminate the scheduled replacement That was to take place in 2013. So this will really push back Any future replacements to 2017? And that all is again tied into what you do with the stations But and to go to the timeliness of it our Our cost for that new pumper is only guaranteed until I think it's march 8th After that the price goes up Roughly $20,000. So if you are in fact intending to make this purchase Timeliness is of the essence If I can add regarding the rescue pumper the rescue pumper Replaces a pumper truck and a rescue vehicle Rescue pumper can be operated by three firefighters firefighter paramedics Whereas the other two vehicles require four people In essence this eliminates one person Our one position Which translates into three People Does not eliminate them. We do not have to rehire them in order to In order to be on the other vehicles We do have a lease schedule That is going to be worked out on this on this purchase provided the council decides to go ahead with it The lease schedule will not require a budget amendment because the lease will not have to Until one year after is it after the order or after the receipt of the truck? I believe it's one year after the receipt one year after the receipt of the truck will be the first lease payment So it will not require a budget amendment For 2010 however, as we all know it will incur a cost in 2011, but we are replacing two vehicles with one Eliminating three positions Um to me it makes financial sense, but i'm just the mayor And it's up to you if I could add once again, there are reoccurring savings to Replacing two vehicles with one. We would be eliminating three officer positions again From one of those vehicles that is an annual savings of roughly 21 000 dollars three driver positions again about 3600 dollars and The maintenance costs all With the Reduction in some overtime If the other three hires have been passed, we would have been able to make that lease payment out of our budget Thank you chief Alderman Bowers I just want to perhaps you can't answer this because you didn't become chief tell afterwards Why wasn't this in the original budget that was submitted to the public protection back in november? Maybe you can't answer that I don't know This concept came about after that and is actually a proposal of mine after being chief Okay, number two is I have some problems with just worrying it to pierce Uh, they're the Cadillac Maybe we should be looking at others and bids. Can this go out on bids? It can go out on bids Typically it has not in the last few purchases that we've made Pierce is a very quality product. There are some long-term savings in maintenance and Because of the proximity that pierce manufacturing is to sheboygan The only other vehicle that we have that has not a pierce is a h.m. E. Darley I believe it's made in michigan Makes for maintenance and getting parts and everything a lot more expensive down the line So in the long term it is the cheapest route to go Okay, thank you. Alderman Bowers Alderman board Thank you, ma'am This purchase of this this or the lease of this truck chief Really doesn't have anything to do with the other one that's going back to public protection under any scenario that public protection and safety recommends to the council you're still going to need this It's still going to be advantageous to get this pumper. Is that correct? That's correct long-term savings and and feasibility of the fire department and We need this pumper And the potential that we're going to get from selling the other two vehicles 90 to 100 thousand dollars that is going to take care of the lease payment for 2011 and partly also for 2012 If I guess it would be a question for President gisha Would the say with the proceeds of that sale go into the general funder? Could we target that to pay the lease or it's all going to come out of the same pocket? Thank you, Alderman borne. I believe in reviewing the lease documentation That as most leases are in the state of wisconsin, you can't prepay them if we were to sell it right away before we Consumated the transaction Then we would know what the balance is and the lease is based on that balance. So Your idea of thinking of it in a way of Making the payments for the next two years is probably more accurate your first thought As all these payments will be in arrears. Hopefully we'll have time to sell them And that would probably I I agree with your thought process on that Thank you. Thank you president gisha and alderman borne Alderman bowers You see we're going to Get 90 000 for our used pumper That's a rescue vehicle Uh, you can't guarantee the 90 000 though. Is there any way we can sell that pumper in it by the The new pumper What happens if we don't sell that pumper for 90 000? Where's that money going to come from be an extra 90 000? The lease amount that is in this document Is exclusive of selling that pumper Anything that we get for that pumper reduces that amount Reduces the 454 000 correct that lease payment is based on 454 000 We're able to sell the rescue vehicle and the pumper for 90 000 or 100 000 that reduces that lease amount by that That amount so the $58 000 annual payment that we would be making would be reduced by let's say 90 000 Probably down to maybe 45 000 correct potential potential And if we don't then we have two pumpers We've never had an issue selling our vehicles when we've replaced them I don't anticipate it here. I think you said in public protection. You had two people looking at it. Uh, there are three currently Three Uh, is are you going to have them bid on it? Close bid or I don't know how you go about this. I believe that the Purchasing agent has a plan to advertise it With closed bids and if we do not uh within sheboyin county First if we do not get a bid that is sufficient, then it would go out to the state and nationally Okay, thank you all the mentors Thank you chief any further discussion if there is none roll call, please Hannah Heidemann kath kittleson clayunis montemayor rinflash cirque van der wheel voo no wongamon no boran hi bowers no decker hi and geisha hi levin highs four noes motion carries We've got to clear up the other two documents. Yeah, we have two uh and 23 36 We have duplicate documents 23 was it 15 and 36? Yep 23 15 and 36 we have a motion to file do we have a second We have a second under discussion Oh in favor say aye Aye Opposed they are filed 23 37 lies over uh 23 38 will be held for 23 40 22 39 on matters laid over 11 resolution number 185-09-10 by alderperson kittleson Extending the listing on the little red schoolhouse at 11 16 here on from march 31st 2010 through june 30th 2010 Alderperson kittleson. Thank you mayor. I would move to put the resolution resolution upon its passage, please We have a motion to put it upon its passage. Do we have a second? We have a second under discussion the new listing contract. This contract will run through june 30th We're just extending the listing for this Thank you. Alderperson kittleson Any further discussion If there is none all in favor say aye Aye Opposed Motion carries Other matters authorized by law 23 39 lies over 23 40 an rc by committee of the whole recommending amending section 29-75 of the 1975 shabuaga municipal code So as to delete the current table of organization and create the new table of organization and passing the attached Substitute ordinance Yes 29 on the little red schoolhouse you'd like to discuss 23 39 that lies over in regards to alderman bowers Point earlier about these properties where that were Rescending the assessments He wanted a list of the properties I believe we had that in finance and I couldn't locate my document today But perhaps If the if the city assessor could give us a document so that the alderman know which property goes with what property number Okay, before the next meeting very good Let me make a note of that sure And that was in finance you are correct Okay 23 uh 40 we are back to Alderperson clayunas I move that the ordinance be put upon its passage To substitute ordinance substitute ordinance we put upon this message. I'm sorry. That's okay. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Motion in a second under discussion President gisha Thank you. I'd like to make an amendment to the general ordinance document 5709 10 I would like to make an uh I would like I move to change section four of the document Section four Please I move that the period be removed from the current end of this One particular sentence section four is made up of only one sentence And in add the following words And that this position be a three-year appointment period So the entire text of section four would now read The salary range for the director of operations shall be established at 82 989 to 120 83 And that this position be a three-year appointment Thank you president gisha. We have a second by president hannah if I may speak on this. I know that there was some concern That uh This was a five-year appointment that a couple of years uh After three years down the road so to speak That we would have somebody with a five-year appointment and the director of operations position And then at that point we may have a city administrator in this city Um by reducing this to three years My term has a little bit over three years left this current term as myself as mayor if uh the Council so decides to go with the city administrator at that point Whoever is the director of operations? Um that position does not have to be renewed Uh in other words that that person does not have to be dismissed However, they do not have to have their their Um appointment renewed in other words that position could go away after three years In my opinion these three years gives me the opportunity um To improve the city In the way that I see fit at the at the at this time, and I hope the council does too um working within the the framework of the position of mayor And the and the the to as uh as as it is uh It is as it is proposed Um regarding table of organization changes We need to just point out we need to look at the amendment first Before we go to the full document. Okay. Is that right? Very good Uh on the amendment we have a motion and a second Under discussion on the amendment only On the amendment under discussion Alderman rindflash Just clarification here. We're looking at just the director of operations position being for three-year term Where do the other two positions currently stand with their? The other two positions will not Um presently we have those employees in the city All right They are both under five-year terms at the moment and uh neither neither of those positions at the moment have more than They they both have less than three years under their present appointment remaining. Thank you any further discussion under the amendment If there is none roll call, please and I vote would be to amend the appointment to three years Heidemann kath kittleson clayunas montemayor rindflash suric van der wheel voo wangenin boran bowers decker geisha and hannah 15 ayes motion carries um Do we need a motion now? I'm putting the motion to um president geisha a motion on the amended document Thank you, your honor. I move that the amended substitute resolution be put upon it ordinance Darn that was so close be put upon his passage Do we have a second We have a motion to second on the amended substitute ordinance your honor if I may uh Just to address some uh some very well thought out and I think pertinent questions that were put before the council That we've all maybe heard about over the last couple of weeks and from um A lot of people I greatly respect who spoke here this evening um If I could just Note just a couple of them an unproven plan. Yes if I was if I was a uh A bureaucrat and I don't mean that as a pejorative. I don't mean that as a negative if that was where my life Uh My life's very hard work was I would say I would not understand this This is a government a structure that is market driven structure. It's a private sector structure And uh if I've heard it once I've heard it a gazillion times And running for this office and at very events why can't the city run more like a business? This runs the city as a business So is it an unproven plan as compared to manatee walk or municipalities? You can say that but I'll but from what I've seen in budgets across the state of wisconsin and municipalities across the state of wisconsin Perhaps an unproven plan was needed some time ago to break What is the norm that the taxpayers are feeling these days? um One of the questions that was raised uh That the talk was in the future If the if it's if it's for the future why not now and that's that answer to me is fairly simple In less than in about three years. We're going to have a new census in this town It's going to cause redistricting of our whole room here where we all are there will be less alderman When that happens district lines will change We may have at large Alderman we some of this will be dictated to us from me. That's the way it's set up in the state of wisconsin With less alderman, they'll there'll be less committees with less committees hence the resolution I put before you or that you'll see later in the discussion about the uh this making committees smaller That's all in anticipation. It's all in planning Uh and the idea is that that there'll be less of us And at that time a city administrator I believe will be necessary and frankly I believe that will change the role of the mayor potentially probably very seriously to part time um Three managers. Why are we doing throw? They're not three managers. Two of those are already there. It's we're not Suddenly hiring three managers. It's not the case at all And it will allow us to take director positions in the future Not and make the manager positions and not give these three years these five year appointments So there is a future plan to moving towards city administrator. I believe contained in this It's not budgeted. Terry Hansen was here at our last council meeting or community the whole meeting That explained to you and I believe you had a sheet put on your desk this evening that explains the The budget this budget for 2011. I believe and talking with terry after that meeting was done with this in mind So again, it's forethought and planning That went into this government structure committee I am so glad we have that and I'm so glad elden is chairman of it because that is our future to get to that point Three years from now when this whole room will change and the management of this city will change That role as the committee the whole set it out to be our long-term vision and future And the strategic fiscal planning committee was going to be our short-term solution which came up with this Is a play going to play an extremely important role for us a vital vital role But we still have to Make changes and plan for that And some of these plans are contained in this The push or rushed that one's always my favorite in shabuagan Anytime you talk about something for under 20 years, it's pushed and rushed in the city of shabuagan. I understand that But this has been in place and discussions have been happening on this public discussions for about six or eight months Uh, we need Change in this structure of city government We need bottom-up and top-down ideas and this is running the city like a business There is a time for city administrator I support a city administrator and as I said at the committee didn't vote for that guy And I didn't support them. I did just the opposite But we the voters went to the polls with an expectation of what they were voting on And I don't take that lightly And I feel it would be the height of arrogance to take that lightly They knew what they were voting on. They knew what duties they were going to give him We have three years to put together a plan to to handle this This reorganization that's going to be thrust upon us via the census And redistricting now is the time for that committee to do its work I support their work and I believe it will lead to a city administrator But I hope that answers some of the question at least the thought process in Why not now? And that it being an unproven plan. Thank you Thank you president gischa. Um, I promised myself I would not respond to the public forum this evening But I did just want to cover one issue And that was the inference of uh, of of uh, Dave Lutsky and this being nepotism um number one nepotism by definition And this is out of in karta is favorite favoritism shown to relatives favoritism shown by somebody in power To relatives and friends, especially in appointing them to good positions nepotism, um The reason I said that Dave Lutsky would be my choice for this position Is because I was being open and honest It has nothing to do with nepotism. Dave Lutsky is our city as our city assessor That was hired by the former administration to do that job Dave Lutsky is an employee of the city um Is not a long time friend of mine that would be nepotism if I gave somebody a job in the city This is called recognizing the talent that you have And giving that talent the opportunity to make changes However, I've said it The reason I said that my choice would be Dave Lutsky is because I'm being honest. That would be my choice This is going to the civil service commission civil service commission is comprised of three individuals Two of the three were appointed by my predecessor to the civil service commission One of them happens to be the father of alderman rindfleisch who is on the government structure committee now if people are talking about nepotism and a Something being underhand whole process I don't believe that Alderman rindfleisch's rindfleisch's father run Would allow me to influence him on his choice coming out of the out of the civil service commission So I just wanted to make that clear if If david lutsky comes out of the civil service commission as one of the three to five Appointees that come out of the civil service commission to my hiring team Will I will I hire him for this job if my hiring team agrees with me? Yes, I would love to is he going to be one of those people. I do not know this will be a nationwide search I've said that from the start I am not going to appoint anybody as an interim because I think that would again cloud the process I'm not going to appoint anybody as an interim operations director So I just wanted to make that clear There is no nepotism involved here and that is the only thing I I I took offense to and in our in our fine Citizens that spoke this evening Alderman boran Thank you, mayor ryan. I've got a question for attorney mclean After the process is through The interview process the civil service commission sends Four or five people for the mayor to interview then I want to follow up with a question for the mayor But the ultimate appointment or the ultimate decision that Mayor ryan makes and is director of operations. Is that subject to council approval? Yes, these positions would be appointed by the mayor subject to council. Okay, so I know I know my constituent mr. Hutz has some problems with this Possibility of mr. Letzky getting the job I feel in my conversations with the mayor the best person is going to get the job and What and so it's going to be subject to council approval? So I think if there's Any semblance of any hanky-panky which I I don't think there's going to be The council is going to have final approval on this on this position And then my question for you mayor ryan is you might want to tell the council and the public Who's on your interview team besides you? I have not established the interview team as of yet, but it will be the the interview team will become Comprised of department heads in the city Thank you and not department heads that are involved in this obviously Any discussion we have alderman sir Thank you, mayor First of all, I would not be voting for this reorganization. I got a couple reasons number one Are my constituents? I received a number of calls and emails and people saying that I voted for bob ryan as mayor Excuse me, but I disagree what he's trying to do And uh, based on that I've got to follow what what my district is talking about Secondly, I do agree wholeheartedly with what my cuts and ellenberg said they mentioned earlier today They did a very good job of it One of the issues that seems to come up is this is this proposal Is it budget neutral or is not budget neutral? um I guess when we voted and I voted against the budget for 2000 and if I think if most of the council members here knew that Within that budget itself was money to be spent on this reorganization I think this should be brought forward at the time we're talking about the budget and not after the budget been passed um We received for the viewing audience here We just received 15 minutes before the the council a document that that shows how we're going to finance this and it says I'm quoting for the director of operations out of the general fund It's going to be 20 percent from the police 20 percent from fire 20 percent from dpw 20 percent from building inspection and 20 percent from engineering Aren't these departments we just laid off people and we lost basically city services to lay off and now we're going to take that money that Could have perhaps saved us laying off and lessening a reduction in services If I if I can answer your question on that alderman sir those figures are what is in the budget Those are the figures that are in the budget Those are not figures that where you were presented to this You know they were requested for this evening. However, they are in the budget document for 2010 um regarding just bringing this up this I This proposal was made to the committee of the whole back in october Okay, this proposal through finance was discussed the budget was discussed I I From several alderman several alderman said they thought it was the best budget process they had ever gone through Um the budget was was discussed openly It was not just slammed on everybody's desk at the last second um, so these are not These are not proposed Ways to pay for that position Those numbers are in the budget and we're passed that were passed by Well 15 of these 16 council members Anything else alderman sir I guess I'd beg the question to the other council members Do they know at the time they voted for the budget that these figures were in there and that It may result in in loss of some more employees Thank you back the question. Thank you alderman sir um We have alderman hannah in order. Thank you, mr. Mayor Thanks for the explanation on the back of this page about worst comes so these are monies that were already In the budget by these departments More people are not going to be laid off Correct, okay, because the the front page is a little bit confusing with Positions that were eliminated before this budget year, right? Okay. Thank you for the clarification. Thank you alderman hannah Next we have alderman wangeman Thank you, mr. Mayor I'm a little bit disturbed That when someone comes to our public forum That they be taken to task for expressing their opinions. I thought the public forum was an open free discussion It's my opinion that just discourages people from coming in here in an open free discussion I also am a little bit confused If you read robbers rules of order It says that the chief administrator officer of the committee or of the meeting Remain totally neutral And that should he enter into the discussion That then he must step away from the podium and the next ranking officer Take over the meeting now tonight. I've heard many Comments come from the podium or from the From your chair That could hardly be considered neutral now I may be wrong on this and maybe I should ask attorney mclean for a Ruling because I was under the understanding that At all times we follow robbers rules of order and If that is in fact the case Then you have made comments that are out of order. Thank you. Thank you alderman wangeman I would like attorney mclean to comment on that because I know this subject has been brought up Over the several years that I have been on the council myself attorney mclean For one thing as far as robber's rules of order if If there's an issue The time to bring it up is when the issue arises and bring up a point of order at that time Robert's rules is just Procedural If you got an issue raise it at the time otherwise, basically it's a waived argument As far as the chair speaking or the or the the mayor speaking you know I don't know that he's Spoken in support of it. I think he's he's Done some explanation as to what's in there. I don't think he's been really pitching it obviously This is the mayor's plan. Everybody knows that it's not really a secret. This is what the mayor is requesting So I don't know if I would suggest if all individual aldermen have issues with anything the mayor Or any other alderman is saying They should raise it as a point of order at the time Thank you attorney mclean. So we have president geisha Thank you. I just wanted to clarify the information that Finance director hanson gave The back part with all the individual lines that show past organization proposed organization That's just to kind of give you a year over a year. Look at what it would look like before and after The real changes are the real funding sources as has been pointing out is in the back and that 20% basically all the departments that this director of operation Has authority over pays a portion of their salary. That's the way you do it in the real world And and each department. It's roughly 20 000 dollars and if My other good friend from the first district can find me a person we laid off who made 20 000 dollars in the department of public works Then he would have a point however that didn't exist and doesn't exist and And therefore it would not have an effect on any layoffs whatsoever Thank you president geisha Alderperson cladus Thank you mere. Um, I have a question Um, if someone could answer maybe alderman rindflash Is there a reason why the city administrator position has to wait for three years? Is there a we have is there some kind of um state law or something that says we have to it can't happen sooner than that Alderbert rindflash, please. Oh, thank you. If I may. Um No, there's no state law in terms of creating the city administrator position. The procedure is exactly what we're doing right We are changing within the table of organization Looking at make some changes The only difference would be a recommendation for city administrator would be one position versus You know a new one on equal with two others But the process is the same procedure would be the same There's no there's no reason we couldn't do city administrator right now The only reason that we talked about After the term actually wasn't three years is came from before this this election and the reason why the recommendation for the committee was to slow it down was because We can't make any changes to the position of the mayor in terms of salary or anything else for the city administrator So we felt it was appropriate to go through the the election cycle. The mayor's been elected The duties of the mayor that he's running for the position that he ran for were laid out And um, you know, we and we can't we could not adjust his salary in any way or straight performance Prior to the election so that anybody running for that office knew what that salary was going into it I have to follow up then Because I kept thinking why why is this city administrator sitting in the Background and in the back room somewhere waiting three years um Because I see the city administrator is enabling the mayor to do what he wants to do which is to get out and develop the city without the Incumbrances of daily meetings and nitty-gritty operations in the city, which an administrator would be overseeing Um, I have looked at this plan. I've seen it since october. I really looked at it hard And in my gut, I think it's lopsided and I have hard time approving it The lopsidedness comes from so much management on operations You've got capable well-paid people as chief of police chief of fire department Public works and then you're going to put someone on top of that Then you have the director of finance Taking on positions that the director of finance has never taken on And I feel is that the director of finance is overworked right now and I just I um I just think you know, it's just like there's so much of management on this side And then there's not enough management on this side and We're working with a lopsided Structure, so I really have a trouble with it. Sorry mayor, but I really I've been waiting to watch every development on it and I I know Thank you all the person clonus. Um, if I may uh Comment without being Miss took here for trying to influence one way or the other Um The the the reason for The director of operations being over the departments. He is is because those are the operational Departments of the city those are the that's the that is the day-to-day operations of the city These are the departments that deal with the general public And they they are they are like in that way Um with finance and administration Those are all of the support departments in the city And do like functions of supporting the other departments and that's why it is that's why it is arranged that way Um regarding the city administrator um People can't answer to Two masters so to speak If you have a city administrator and a full-time mayor at the same time Who's in charge? Is it a city administrator or is it a mayor? Um, if you take the statutory power away from the mayor and give it to the city administrator That's not what I was elected for Um In the future Can we have a city administrator reduce the statutory power of the mayor? If that's what the public decides that's what the public decides Um, but right now to bring in a city administrator And reduce the statutory powers of the office that I ran for Um, I don't think that is what the public elected me for so Thank you Thank you all the person clay on this All the way red flesh. Yes. Thank you, sir. Just clarification in the sense of the statutory powers. What's in the? um The policy creation the elected office itself. The city administrator does not take away from that One comment I always hear is that city administrators raise taxes or lowers taxes No, they don't they have absolutely no control raising or lower taxes The recommended budget just like the budget process goes through here but the The will of the people through the elected office part-time mayor full-time mayor still maintains itself The will of the elected people through the offices that we hold in these desks here as Council members that hasn't changed. We're responsible for for policy. All administrator does is administrate The duties reality is is the plan in front of us has three administrators entitled things that aren't administrators Or to call something else My my preference would be for one administrator Call the same policy same procedure does not change the role of the mayor or the council at all The only thing we could do in three years would be to lower the salary of the mayor but there are city codes that Satutorily Of what the mayor is responsible for including the budget Including chairing this meeting including casting a vote, which is a political position A city minister cannot cast a vote because it's not elected office So I just want to clarify that a little bit sort of statutory. All right If they go to a city manager form of government there, there would be that that would be something that I think you're referring to the sense that Um Statutorily they have control that's and they're not elected and that's something that the committee was strongly opposed to Was taking away power of the mayor. Thank you Thank you. Alderman right flesh Alderman board. He answered my question. Thank you Alderman Bowers Thank you Alderman right flesh. Is there any time schedule that you've set for this committee to come up with recommendations one way or the other? If if there is a time schedule When do you think that we could implement this would it be through a referendum to the council? Of course, perhaps that's one of the questions you're going to be asking And how many members are on this committee as I recall there were maybe you want 10 Alderman right flesh Actually, I am vice chair this moment in time of the committee not chair of the committee that is alderman. Oh, excuse me. Alderman born Former alderman Is here. Alden born ill Is berg is here. He maybe will answer my question terms of schedule a reality that we have a meeting set this thursday But the council will dictate out of the committee We'll make recommendations obviously coming out of that council of when things can be done But that's in terms of referendum I'm sure the committee will make a recommendation But ultimately it's going to be the council to make that decision of which direction they want to go if they want to do referendum or not Whatever report comes back this this council has the final say I can't really open up the floor. So I guess I'll just leave it at that. Thank you. Alderman right flesh um you know this is This is not a a change in the structure of city government. This is a change in the table of organization Since in the last six years actually since four Until now There's been 56 to changes that have happened in the city You know 56 this is this is a change in the table of organization. This is not a change in the structure Of our government. Yeah, just so we understand that Alderman born or no, I take that back. Alderperson montemire Thank you, mr. Mayor. I'd like to call the question We have a motion to call the question. Do we have a second? We have a second I'm calling the question all in favor say aye opposed Question is called Roll call, please. Hold on Oh, thank you all the person montemire. Yeah The motion was to pass the substitute ordinance as amended Okay Cough no kittleson Crayonis no montemire Rindflash no Suric no vander wheel Voo no Wongamon no boron Bowers no Excuse me No, thank you. Someone was coughing while you were saying Decker no Gisha Hannah And heidemann seven eyes eight nose motion fails Other matters we need to also file The companion copy document 2338 that came out of salary and grievance. We just need to file those documents. Move the file. Thank you Motion to second to file companion documents all in favor say aye opposed No, seven eyes eight nos No, I'm sorry That's what you said. That's what I said. Yes Okay, I'm Substituting the duplicate they're on filing the duplicate documents all in favor say aye opposed Documents are filed other matters authorized by law attorney mclean 2340 an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending june 30 2010 and june 30 2011 That goes to law and licensing 2342 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a communication from elmer schneider Requesting a waiver of the sex offender residency restrictions. That goes to ppns 2343 is an arrow by the purchasing agent submitting an evaluation of request for proposal 1319-10 received on february 25 for the purchase of two asphalt patching trailers for the motor vehicle division That goes to public works 2344 is a resolution authorizing the purchasing agent to enter into contract for the purchase of two asphalt patching trailers for the motor vehicle division That goes to public works 2345 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a communication From the department of natural resources stating that they believe the city was in violation of its municipal storm water permit When it failed to immediately investigate potential illicit discharges at a facility in the city between december 2008 and december 2009 And that goes to public works Motion and a second to adjourn all in favor say aye Opposed we are adjourned