 Okay, the recording is on. So welcome to the advocacy and outreach special interest group meeting. Today is June 18th. And we will just discuss a number of topics we have in the list. So the first topic we have is change terminology keynote project. So we started the discussion on the last meeting. And yesterday we had the agenda governance meeting. So I will just do you see my screen. Yes, yes. Yes, so I still haven't published a video from the governance meeting because I need to clean it up a bit. Just because there was some personal data on the screen. But yeah, if you're interested, we have meeting notes and we have had a lot of discussions about what we do next. So this meeting, we basically agreed on our talk plan. There is consensus that we want to change all the terminologies, master, blacklist, whitelist. We agreed how we want to approach that. And yeah, basically, we spent maybe 30 minutes discussing this topic, maybe more. And yeah, for master, right now we don't have consensus in the developer menu, please. Thanks for the excellent start for starting the discussion. But we need to proceed and we agreed that we should invite contributors to make more suggestions about the terminology and project ideas. Based on that, we will select a number of top items and we will have a public vote for that. And after that, governance board will select an option based on this word feedback. So the voter won't be binding just because to avoid trolling on the whatever. But yeah, of course, we will respect the feedback from the community. So yeah, we have a number of options listed here. Yeah. So obviously, not everyone agrees with the document. But yeah, so we start from there and we have a number of front runners right now in the terms and I believe that Alex and Markie will be communicating the most of this effort. That's right. We have a number of action items. Right. So, you know, also, we will be duplicating at least what is terminology, but the agreement that we don't enforce specific terminology, but we make recommendations. So the plug-in containers and common dinners in the science, what they do in particular cases. Definitely not. And we also intend to start a working group of how it would look like. It would be just a subproject or whatever entity. So instead of doing these discussions at that box and I was really sick, maybe we'll move to a separate meeting, but it's to be implemented. And actually, that's it for now. In addition to that, we've got a bunch of pull requests over the past couple of weeks with terminology clean up in different topics. Also, the agent terminology pick now it has a lot more information and guidelines how to contribute. But yeah, we still need to do more on this front. This is the new look for roadmap. And here is agent terminology cleanup. Here you can see that basically there are guidelines, etc., right inside this story. But right now, Marky is working on the blog post, but yeah, most likely we'll just duplicate the information there. Okay, anything on this topic? I just wanted to clarify, if you don't mind, where we're talking about replacing this terminology with my property terms. We're talking, I, my understanding, not only about documentation for Jenkins IO and for plugins, but also changing the names of different deliveries jar files and Docker images and so on. Is it correct? So that's correct. So for example, here we have a kind of full scope, which was identified. Some stories are really easy and documentation is part of easy parts. API, etc., all stories, which involve binary compatibility or whatever compatibility equation. But it is still there is a consensus that we need to work on them. My preference would be to start from easy parts because they provide immediate benefits for Jenkins users. Okay, so that's the plan. And if someone wants to experiment with API cleanup, please do so. Okay. So I guess I should do quick updates on the stories. So for Google Summer of Court, actually, there is no major updates. And it's a good news. So everything goes pretty smooth. We have seven projects, all projects have a good progress. We already had demos by several students. We target the evaluation in two weeks. Okay. And I think that so far everything is on track. So nothing specific to report at this special interest group. So like on the on Google Summer of Code evaluations, will there, will it be my responsibility as a mentor to do the research to know how to do a good evaluation or will there be a tutoring session from the org admins to coach me on how to do a good job of evaluating that first month. Firstly, there is a documentation by Google. Okay. So we didn't plan to do anything specific for tutoring mentors, but that's why we have office hours. That's why we have our main please. So if you have something to ask, please let us know. Okay. So, for example, in the mentor guide, you can see some, what's happened. Yeah, I didn't click the link. So here, for example, we have evaluation periods. There is some expectations you can find right here. Great. But the most of the information comes from the sections and we can find more. Great. That that was sufficient. Thank you. So be a self-guided learner is the moral and I'll come to the office hours if I have additional questions I need to ask for clarification. So basically, there are two parts. Firstly, if you want to pass a student, if there is consensus between mentors so that a student is passed, then basically the only important thing there is summarized and feedback to the student. If any project mentor and team considers failing a student, then becomes a bit more tricky and then we recommend to contact our clients. But yeah. Okay. It won't be needed. Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Thanks for the guidance. Okay. So the next is Google Season of Dogs. For Google Season of Dogs, right now we are in the middle of application phase and we have already received a number of applications through the mailing list, which we need to review. And the deadline for applications is July 9th, if I recall correctly. Yes, here we have one, two, three, four, five, six applications or something like that. So definitely it will keep us busy and we need to start processing that providing feedback. And then it will be also an interesting challenge to make a decision because the Google Season of Dogs is a much smaller scale program Google Season of Code. As we discussed before, we have options to also run community bridge, et cetera, and most likely we will do that. But at the same time, we will still need to do project selections according to Google Season of Dogs rules. Okay. So any questions before we move on, especially from what? Well, I guess I guess I'll be waiting for the guidance as the process will proceed. So Google Season of Dogs is quite relaxed in terms of timing. Even more relaxed than Google Season of Code. So we need to do reviews. Okay. Just hold it. Go ahead, Vlad. I just wanted to mention that following up of my application for Google Season of Dogs. I created a simple repository on Gear Hub where I'm summarizing all different kind of resources, issues, possible solutions for topics that I kind of re-selected. I'm not sure if those will be approved, but this is just for me in case it needs to be shared. I would be glad to share this as well. Also, if you have something like that, please include it into your application because even if it's a separate doc, it's also part of application. It's a part of prior work, which is quite important. Please don't hesitate to reference all such information, all such ideas. You can do the proposal. Okay. So the next topic, open source video conferencing systems. So it's one of the meetup feedback that basically we use Zoom and we use Zoom webinar. One of participants edited the topic to agenda is whether you would be willing to reconsider that for meetups and for IT meetings. So I'm not sure whether we have a quorum here to discuss that. I think that basically it's up to, so in the case of special interest groups, it's up to the leaders to define what they use. I don't think that we should set any standards there. So for example, Jenkins infrastructure meeting is being held in. At the moment. Many meetings are held in Zoom like this one. And for online meetup platform. I believe that we actually have to stay with Zoom webinar taking scalability concerns taking a lot of the things. I'm happy to discuss options, but yeah, I'm sure to be up to moving at the moment. So, oh, like I had failed to add something to the agenda. I'll just type it into the end if we get to it. It's a possible webinar for next week on Jenkins 2.2 235.1. I think I've got a right time for it is advocacy and outreach this meeting a place to do that or do you want to do that just separately by email. We can do that right now, if you're fine. Okay, so proposal is Thursday. Tim Jack home has accepted for Thursday next week to PM UTC to PM UTC right to PM UTC right. And Mike Cirioli has also accepted. So, and I think I think there's a good chance we'll be able to get Daniel back. If not, I think you and I can cover his portion with regard to the plug in and user experience topic so we've got a good panel of presenters ready to go. And Esther Alvarez has agreed to listen she won't be a presenter but she'll be there in case we need her expertise. So, okay, then let's do that. Do you need any assistance or can you, because there is official process and what we need to actually is an abstract so that we can publish that. Right, let me let me draft that why don't you just note the action item for mark to draft the abstract and get it ready. Yeah, then propose the abstract for the meetup and that goes into the meetup if I remember right format we review it as a draft, and then we publish the meetup once we got the draft approved by everybody. So anyway, we can fast track that. Okay, yeah, I think that would be nice if we announce tomorrow. Yeah, I also want to have a meeting about Jenkins roadmap. But yeah, I'm not sure. Maybe I will schedule it. Well, I guess I have to schedule it to the next week as well. It's rather developer meetup it's not the user meetup so it's more relaxed. Right. Okay. So this will be an overview of the roadmap. What are you envisioning a summary of the areas of the roadmap and interesting topics. I'm mostly for contributors. So why roadmap is important how to contribute how to propose your topics, etc. Because yeah, the main objective for me is to actually get through the map over the line. And because it looks pretty okay at the moment, but we don't for sure that many stories I'm missing, which could be added. They come in KB to definitely make sense. Great. Okay. Any questions comments before we move on. None from me. Okay. Would you also drop the social media image. Yes, although there I may come begging for your help. If I if I do it badly, I'll come back to you and ask for ask for help. Okay. So anyway, I think is done. We have content. Right. And I have pictures that I can use. So it just making them look good and lay out nicely is as usual a daunting challenge for me, but I will happily have some fun with it. Okay, great. So let's move on then. Okay, so configuration as code demo. So what you wanted to ask a few questions about it, right? Yes. So, basically, if you go to the written file, which you put together. There is some way you mentioned in case if you are running from Mac OS. Some parameters like capital D. Just a moment. And I'm not sure I guess it is more related to yeah, I guess this is related to the mavin command, not the docker command. No, actually it's Docker command. Just a second. Let me show it to you. Yeah, this thanks for asking the question glad because I had a question from someone about using so cat as a replacement for Docker and Docker so I'm going to be delighted to watch this and ask some questions myself. I'm not going to really run it. But if you want to. Yeah, just the fact that you understood enough to write that read me is already encouraging. Well, and I just wanted to confirm. I had no problems running this. It runs wonderfully on Mac by like pulling it from Docker hub. But when like, building this previously, not the least which you did two days ago but previously, I had some some issues, I guess. But I hadn't tried it with the latest release which you posted a couple days ago. I guess it is. 2.4 something. Yeah. So I think there is actually a book in the documentation a bit. Just a second. Good. Okay. So here just to explain how this demo works and it has initialization scripts. So basically here you can find a file called Jenkins ssh to close others stuff. And you can see that there is deaf host and deaf has specified it actually it's additional option. Basically what you need to do in your command. So basically it's here. So you share an image so count minus a deaf host it goes to the current host and they believe that it's just a remainder of the documentation. So it's needed basically on the for development. So if you use Docker for Mark on windows something like that. So the whole point is actually you don't do Docker and Docker on this demo instead of that you connect directly and since for Docker for Mark and windows effects of the front on a separate separate machine. Home additional tweaks. Okay, that's that's why the so cat thing so cat is providing a tunnel if you will or a connector between two machines whereas on a Linux environment. I don't have to tunnel two machines because it's on the same same machine. Got it. Thank you. Submit a patch later but it's just follow it wasn't that clear from the documentation. Thank you very much for addressing this. And just in general, I wanted to address the question. It is maybe not related to your demo that you provided and thank you very much. It's like one full demo which can be extended to Docker at least. But in general, would you recommend. I guess there is an issue of installing Docker server inside Docker image. But before there was blue ocean gents and Jenkins CI blue ocean Docker image, which kind of deprecated I guess, or outdated, although there are still some releases. And it has a Docker install there, which allowed to write to run declarative pipelines. I wonder if we install not Docker server Docker client inside the image for instance which you provided to consider there will be some issues with Docker one. I think to mention that there is basically no Docker client and Docker server that is a single docked executable. And what it means that you have to install a client for demos which involve Docker but really you have basically means that you have to install the Docker CLI. I just want to really operate in the server mode because of Docker and Docker and other things. So, I'm just trying to remember from where I get images there because here believe I use Docker and Docker. If not, I will use it elsewhere. You put the image on Docker hub. Okay, but this image doesn't include. So here, for example, this is the agent image I use. I just open that and you can see that basically there is no magic inside it's just tweaked maybe an image. But I believe that I have images which actually include Docker. I'm just trying to remember where I have difficulties remembering. Yeah, I believe that in the course we bundled Docker. Let me check. Just a second. See I Docker image. Something else. Let me check. Maybe that we include Docker here. I can't find it, but basically you just download the client and install it to the right place and you get running. So I will find it for you. Thank you. Sorry, I thought that's right inside this image. It's not. Okay, other questions. So it's a bit obsolete. I start watching it in terms of plug-in set because we use this image as a base for example for test environments for dark theme and for tables to do this migration. So it was updated but still internally it has some issues. So for example, you can go to Jenkins YAML but here you can discuss it. And it's quite humble, just modifies all such plug-in but the rest, almost everything else happens through Groovy hooks. So I still need to spend some time on migration. Do we have some time? Can I ask one kind of simple question? Maybe regarding this demo. When I run it, it was wonderful that any person who runs this demo can bypass entering admin password, which is usually taken from Secrets. If you remember, do you know which portion of your demo are responsible for this bypassing this entering admin password? Yeah, that's easy. So basically, you're talking about the installation wizard. So here in this demo, this installation wizard is just disabled. And yeah, there is no magic here, they believe it's here. Yeah, runs it up wizard false. And after that, the entire step wizard is disabled because we don't need it. We can figure everything is using traditional score, as well as tricks and settings. And the way users actually configured, you can go to any scripts. And here they believe that there is authorization. So here you can see that I create three users, users that we don't manager for permissions and also admin is created on demand when we request creation of admins. So this part can be easy to move to configuration as code. This part cannot, but at the same time I'm not sure whether anybody really needs it for demo purposes. Thanks. This part is also not needed because of this project. All of these supports as a configuration as code. Mark. That block also can be expressed as config is cool. That's good. I wasn't worried about things here could be expressed. So what can it be, at least easily it's all this conditional logic. And because it was a development demo and implemented in such way. Actually, even in downstream testing demos. So for example, I have a demo for testing dark team. Yeah, we'll just show it there. Yeah, this is the demo which is based on this image, just because I didn't want to configure the entire instance I took the existing one. And here you can see that I don't use configuration as code to enable theme, etc. Because you can see that there is some logic. Because we want to test to test with dark team with light team, you may want to test with different configurations in development mode when you can edit CSS files and they get applied immediately, etc. So here you can see that there are some conditional logic, which is again driven by system properties, which again defined here in Jenkins sausage. And which again just defined by makefile so user interfaces actually like that from live like preview, etc. Well, I like me so why not. All right, it's not a good makefile but does it's a job. I thought the definition of a good makefile was it does its job. And it's working after clean. Because that's the biggest problem with makefiles. Okay, so, yeah, so basically you can experiment with this demo if you want. It's quite straightforward. Okay, so any questions. Okay, so last topic we have an agenda UI UX hack first grooming. I'm not really sure that we should do it today because you will spend a lot of time on other topics. So maybe you could postpone I will just show what's the current status. So I integrated the internal feedback we got it during the hack first also feedback form, etc. And currently you can see a document which basically includes all the information. Okay, I took some data from there and I knew was home but basically what's interesting here is the first part. So retrospective so what can we improve and what works well, and you can find all the information here. And again, this document is open for comments so. Okay, feel free to add something else. And is, is that document linked from the advocacy and outreach notes so I can find it I'm not sure I'll find it is great. Okay, so I can just go from the notes there and and review it again I think I think I'd seen it once but I would love to do it again review it to be sure that I've understood. Now, do you intend then to do we do we want a separate meeting that will review and summarize or is this is this document ultimately the end of the retrospective. So, practically, I would be interested to summarize this document. But at the same time, we have a lot of stories. And for me, doing a formal retrospective is not mandatory there as long as we collect feedback, because after that we can grow it when we start when can you hack it on. You know, the issues with infrastructure, etc. So, I don't have strong preference about having retrospective now. Great, because we already didn't do it right after the event. I still have to publish a blog post for that, but things happen. Yeah, so for me it is respective with this rather rolling documents so we will be processing it for the next event. That's the document looks like it's captured marvelous amounts of information about the event so that when we do the next we can refer back to it that sounds great to me. No need for a separate meeting, all the better. Okay. So anything else for today. Okay. I will probably just close the meeting. Yeah, I'll publish the recording as well as all this recording at some time today, probably closer to midnight. Thank you all like thanks very much. Thank you. And yeah, I'll stop the recording. Thank you, Mark. Bye.