 My name is Melissa Dilber, Foreign Affairs Officer at the U.S. Department of State, and I'll be your host for today's global program on celebrating pride, lessons in building inclusive communities. Today we have a great program that illustrates how communities can come together to celebrate diversity and inclusiveness. We'll be hearing from experts and community members from the United States, South Africa, and Namibia. Let's begin by introducing today's panelists from each of our locations. Today in our studio, we're joined by Jamie Valesteros. He's the Chairman Emeritus of the Capital Pride Festival in Washington, D.C. We also have journalist Megan Fitzgerald from one of Washington, D.C.'s local television stations, NBC4. And joining us from Los Angeles, California is Khalil Edwards. He's a development specialist with Power California. Welcome! Now let's say hello to our guests in our African locations. First, joining us from Pretoria, South Africa is Maureen Mimna, the cultural attaché at the U.S. Embassy. And our panelist Dr. Bev Ditzi, a filmmaker and advocate in Pretoria. And from Windhoek, Namibia, we're pleased to welcome Circa Amambo, who manages communications and small grants for PEPFAR, the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, and our panelist Linda Magano-Bauman. Linda is a feminist and advocate for human rights. Thank you all for being with us. We look forward to hearing from you over the course of the program. And to our viewers around the world, hello! A very special welcome to all of you at any time during this program. If you have comments or questions for our speakers, please post them in the chat box on the webpage, and make sure to write your first name and where you're from so that I can say hi. All right, let's begin. In our program today, we're focusing on how communities come together to celebrate LGBTI Pride Month. This is a movement that has grown and changed over the years to become a community event in many places. We'll be hearing from our panelists in South Africa and Namibia a little bit later. But to get started, I'd like to ask our speakers in the United States to talk about how they are celebrating Pride this year. Jamie, let's start with you. First, can you tell us a little bit about your background and what in your experience is Pride? And how have you worked with community partners to make Pride an inclusive event in Washington, D.C.? Sure. Well, thank you for having me today, folks. I certainly appreciate it. If I've learned anything in my five years with Pride is that Pride means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. But from our research, especially with our community, there are two chief things that stick out. One, Pride is still a day for people to just be whoever they are. And two, it's an opportunity for our community to bridge the gap between disparate communities and disparate community members. My journey actually started about five years ago. It's not been a legacy, but it's been a journey, to say the least. And I actually used to look at Pride as that thing over there. But rather than writing it off, I decided, you know, let me get engaged. Let me understand what it's all about. And it's been an ever-evolving journey since then. So I used to run the Capital Pride Festival. It's D.C.'s largest annual one-day event. And we welcome about 400,000 visitors. We have 300 exhibitors and vendors. Three main stages with artists from both local and regional recognition to international recognition, five beverage gardens, two food courts, 300 volunteers, so on and so forth. But really all of it is in service to our community. I don't think I would have been able to accomplish any of it without a team, a visionary team that's been able to execute on a great vision of what this program might look like. And under my tenure, we've sort of reimagined what the festival might be. So rather than just being a celebratory event, it's an opportunity to celebrate and advocate all of our community members and make sure that they're accurately represented on our festival grounds. Just to highlight a few things that we've accomplished this year alone, this has been the most accessible Pride ever, right? In terms of services offered and physical accessibility of the grounds, it's the most sustainable. All of the energy used has been offset by renewable energy credits. We've established something called the First Pride Initiative, which is intended to help make the festival more welcoming to people who are either coming for the first time or who are coming alone or things can be overwhelming. We've re-established partnerships with rainbow families and adoptions together to establish a family zone to make our festival grounds more inclusive to LGBTQ families and their allies. We've carved out a specific space to represent DC's LGBTQ sports community because that's important at DC. And lastly, and which I'm most proud of, is we've started a partnership with a lot of diplomatic and international affairs leaders in DC to start with something called the International Pride Initiative. And I'm proud to say that in our first year, we've set a world record by having ten embassies officially participate with Pride. But 36 embassies overall engaged, and on top of that, eight international affairs and multinational organizations involved, for example, GLIFA, UN, the Organization of American States, the EU delegation, so on and so forth. But really all of this can't be done without a great team and building partnerships with all of our community members. Wow, congratulations. Thank you. That sounds like both a lot of work and a really exciting opportunity for everybody here in Washington, DC. Thank you, Jamie. Thank you. Khalil, could you please tell us a little bit about your background, what Pride means to you, and how you celebrate it in your community? Yes. Thanks for having me. So a little bit about my background. I am originally from Portland, Oregon, and so in Portland, I co-founded the first Black chapter of PFLAG, so PFLAG Portland Black Chapter, the first in the country. And, you know, when we first kind of started on this journey of starting the chapter, it was really thinking about what is needed and necessary for our communities in Portland, Oregon, and we realized there was really a vacuum and a lack of space and safe spaces and opportunities for folks that identify as Black, African-American, and LGBT QIA. And so it was really important for us to have a space that is core by us and we were able to really self-determine for ourselves what was needed. And so in doing that work, the organization really grew and changed rapidly in a short amount of time into expanding our programming and the ways that we reached and brought community in and the work that we did. So, you know, folks may be somewhat familiar with PFLAG chapters of truly about support and supporting folks, friends and family in the coming out process. And what we knew we needed was really to have advocacy and youth programming and other services for folks in our community that just was not there. And so, you know, what Pride has meant for us is, you know, one of the things we did was we organized Portland Black Pride as one of our programs and it really was not just about it's a week long of events, 7 to 11 events in a week. So, you know, it was a lot of work. But, you know, the exciting part about it was that it was not just about acceptance but really about how we can like fully celebrate who we are and also come together in advancing who we are as a community. And so really making sure that we are staying connected to the roots around how Pride was originated around really fighting back and, you know, saying that our communities matter and we are deserving of equality, acceptance and equity. And so we tried to keep that as part of our Pride celebrations to where we are coming together with the network to plan to build community together and really try to advance some of the issues that we were facing. Thank you, Khalil. It sounds like you really capture the essence of celebrating both identity, individuality, history and bringing people in to that celebration with you. Thank you so much. And Megan, we'll turn to you. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you see Pride celebrated and covered in the media? Yes, good morning and thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here. A little bit on my background. I am a journalist. I've been in the industry for about a decade now. And I started my career in Monroe, Louisiana, which is a small market in Oregon, part of the state. And then I went to Denver, Colorado to hear in Washington, D.C., our nation's capital. I've covered pretty much everything of uncovered corruption at some of the highest levels, which led to city officials being indicted for payroll fraud, specifically. I've covered massive fires, historic fires and flooding. The legalization of marijuana in Colorado, obviously politics, one of our nation's most polarizing murder cases here, just in the shadow of the National Cathedral right near our vice president's mansion, known as the mansion murders where a family was held hostage for almost a day, essentially, and brutally murdered. So I've seen a lot, covered a lot. As it relates to pride, I've also had the opportunity to see different news outlets and agencies become more inclusive and start to understand the importance of celebrating pride specifically. And within my organization of NBC, back in 2016, for instance, we launched the NBC Out, which is a digital portal of NBC News that targets stories in the LGBT community. And you'll see floats in the pride parade that are sponsored by our local news affiliate. We have it up in New York and all across the country with NBC. And you'll see ABC News and other news agencies understanding the importance of celebrating diversity and making people feel included and accepted. I think that corporate leaders understand that when someone feels as though they can be comfortable in who they are and they're accepted for who they are as long as they're getting their work done, then they can give more of their efforts and be more productive in whatever it is that they do when they're not worried about hiding who they are or fearing intimidation and so I think that really it's a productivity thing as well. And it just makes for a better work environment when people know that they're supported and I frankly celebrated specifically in the month of June for Pride Month. And so I recently went viral for an announcement that I made which really was a surprise to me because I got engaged and I think that the viewers, I'm a weekend anchor as well as a reporter during the week and you know we work with our community all the time. They trust us to tell them the news and it's sort of like we're a family. Viewers get to know us and we get to know them when we do different events and so to me it just felt natural to share with them some exciting personal news that I was, I just got engaged and it just happened to be the month of Pride. So I didn't want it to be just about me, look at me, look at my announcement. So excited to tell you this but also to take the opportunity to say, listen, you know being a member of the LGBT community is not always the coming out process. There is finding out who you are, being comfortable in your own skin and I really wanted to use the opportunity to send a message to young kids and even adults who might be struggling with their identity that being who you are is enough and you are great just as you are, there's nothing wrong with you. And so I was humbled that that went viral and it went all over the world because it was the message that I was trying to relay to people who might need to hear that and so I don't take lightly the position that I have, the platform that I have as a weekend anchor and a person in our community that has a platform and so it's I think incumbent upon me and all of us really to use our platform to try and help people and so that's just a little bit about me. Thank you Megan and congratulations and also thank you for using your voice in this really spectacular way. So to shift another focus of our program today is how pride can unite different groups around a common purpose. Jamie, could you tell us your thoughts, views on this bringing together different groups? What are some of the best ways to organize and communicate with a diverse set of community members? That's a great question and working with over 300 different vendors and plus the 300 different volunteers you got a lot of different personalities in the mix. But what I have to say about it is two things. One, everybody has a story and a vision just like Megan was talking about and two, it is about community building. Now it's not always going to be easy, right? I wish it was, but if it were then everybody would do it and we wouldn't have the issue anymore, right? But everybody has a story to tell and sometimes they may lack the ability to communicate that message but always assume the best and give them at least that respect unless they defy you. If they show you then your true colors and cut the tie, trust you. But everybody has a story to tell and without that story, without that unique perspective on how the world works, you would have a grander vision of how you could improve the world. I sort of viewed my role as finding those stories and asking those people to kindly help me improve our program so that it better addresses our community. I wouldn't have achieved the things that I mentioned earlier without having strong leaders and producers who had a vision of what the future might look like. And so that's really it. Find people who have a passion or an innovative way of thinking about things and make sure that they have a seat at the table. Give them a chance to show you what they could do, build a community. Everybody wants to be part of a community. So let people tell their story, assume the best, but also trust your gut. Trust your gut. Thank you. And Khalil, can you talk about bringing people together around Pride? Specifically, how do you engage people who are not part of the LGBTI community? Yeah, I think that, you know, one thing that's important is really to meeting people where they are, right? That's always important. And also being able to, you know, see ourselves in others. I think that is something that we are all better off when we can, you know, see ourselves in the other person and seeing news and seeing your difference and my differences as beautiful. And I think that, you know, one of the things that we have always tried to practice and something that I, you know, really believe strongly in is that, you know, the spaces that we create are really an opportunity for, you know, all folks from different backgrounds to be able to come together. And it's also an opportunity to learn from each other as well. So, you know, when I am able to see myself in you and to understand your differences, respect your differences and see your differences as beautiful, then I am also able to really have more, it builds empathy really around, across communities and around the world. I think that, you know, that is the path to really being more inclusive in whole communities. I think, you know, something that I believe strongly in is something that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. called Beloved Community. And it's really about I am because you are. And so, you know, I am a whole person when you are a whole person and have everything you need. And so it's about really holding that thinking first and making sure that all of us are able to be seen and loved and accepted and embraced. That's beautiful. So, empathy is key. Differences are beautiful. And our inclusive community is Beloved. I really like that. Megan, in your experience, how have you seen Pride grow over these years? Well, as I mentioned, I think that news outlets specifically have started to evolve. I mentioned a few minutes ago, just in 2016, how we launched the NBC Out organization. And so there's that online segment of NBC News that is specifically catered towards LGBT stories. And in addition to organizations that individuals within NBC News can join, for instance, there's Ben, the Black Employee Network. There's NBC Out, which is a place for LGBT community members to join this organization and to talk about matters that impact them. And there's people that are listening, people that are hearing, you know, the views and trying to understand what this section of our workforce needs and how we can make things better and even more inclusive. And as I touched on before, the celebration of Pride, I think that that was a really big deal to see NBC News having a float going down the street of D.C. or New York City or Los Angeles or Dallas or whatever city across the country. And really taking into account that these are, I mean, this is an important set of our population. LGBT people need to be included, they need to feel safe, they should be celebrated. And it's certainly very humbling and nice to see that. But you're also seeing it from other news agencies as well. And you're seeing it at local stores, huge department stores like Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's. You see Nike and Under Armour, Starbucks, Listerine, the Mouthwash, putting it on their products. And it's sending the message that it's okay to be who you are, we support you. And the more people see that and see different organizations that they love and they respect and they like and they purchase products from, the better. The more people are starting to see that there's nothing wrong with being a member of the LGBT community. It's not impacting someone else's ability to do their job or someone else's ability to live their life. We are people just like everybody else. And so Pride Month is just a unique month to be able to even more so celebrate the differences that people have. Thank you. And it's really nice to hear a large entity like NBC has put the time, effort and resources towards something like NBC out. That's something I'll take a look into. Thank you. So now we see, it looks like we have questions from our online audience. Okay, let's jump in and take a look at some of those questions. One online viewer asks, how can LGBTI movements support each other internationally? Does anybody want to jump in and take that, Jamie? I'll take that. So in DC, right, we have a unique environment and I guess that's why we've been able to engage so many embassies and diplomatic communities. But even internationally, right, the capital pride is part of this international network of prides called InterPride. And we're about to have the 50th commemoration of Stonewall, which is actually an InterPride program up in New York, the first time it's ever been in the United States. And I leverage that network to help connect our diplomatic community to people out in the field and, you know, make some connections as to how they can impact their community. So everybody has a unique perspective and a unique set of connections. It's our duty to sort of leverage it to the betterment of our entire community. So joining community, InterPride, there's a key word to look up. Okay, so to find InterPride in other countries, is that available other places? Is there someone viewing from saying maybe I could look into InterPride there? Absolutely. Yeah, or you truthfully reach out to me. I'm, you know, a fairly open book. And I think if you reach out to any of the, at least the prides that I work with, they're more than happy to help you connect you to either prides internationally or prides locally. So this past week, right, Georgia had their first ever pride in their capital city, right, Tbilisi pride. And it was met with some pushback. But we at Capital Pride made sure that our message of love and support made it across because it's important to show that there is support for your community. Maybe not yet in your regional area, but internationally and just as human beings, there's a community out there to support you. Right. Did you hear that? So Jamie is open for emails, questions. I know. Please feel free to reach out and connect to him if you have an interest in a pride event in your local area. So another online viewer asks, what are the benefits to promoting inclusion and diversity? Khalil, do you want to try that one? Do you have your thoughts, the benefits of promoting inclusion and diversity? Yeah. I mean, I think the benefits to promoting inclusion and diversity, I mean, they are like many, right? So I feel like just from off the top, it means that people are able to bring their whole selves all the time. And so when you are in those spaces, when you feel like you're not able to bring your whole self and that you are not okay to just be and exist and all of who you are, then that prevents us from often being able to realize and actualize our full potential. And so I think when you're promoting inclusion and diversity, folks are able to bring their full selves in all the spaces that they're in. And I think one of the things that we saw as when we founded the chapter of People Like Portland Black Chapter, which became Sankofa Collective Northwest was that people often came up to us and would talk to us and share just how needed and necessary that space was for them. They didn't have to hide their blackness. They didn't have to hide their sexual orientation. Like both of those could exist in the same space and not only have it be a safe space, but that it was an inviting space for folks to bring all of who they are and all of who they were. One interesting thing that we found that kind of reinforced what we already knew is that we did a survey and put out a report. It was a groundbreaking report that we did in Oregon, the state of Black LGBTQ Oregonians. And when we were talking to folks who really compiled some of the data for this report, is that we were asking folks about their experiences, about their background, about who they are, about what they had experienced and had been doing in their lives. And a lot of folks had said to us when we were doing this survey and data collection was that no one has ever asked me about this part of my life. Like I haven't ever been asked to share this information. It was never important or was never seen as something that I should be able to talk freely and openly about my experiences in all of my many intersecting identities. And so I think that when we are promoting inclusiveness, when we're promoting diversity, then we are seeing all of a person, right? And we are inviting all the pieces of who we are because we are many things in many spaces to many people and all those things can exist in one person. And we're saying that that's not only good and okay, but that is at the essence of who we are as humans in humanity and that we want to be able to make sure that folks feel that they are able to do that every day of their lives. Thank you, Kalil. That's pretty special. It makes me think of like every individual is a kaleidoscope made up of just hundreds of different colors and if we take a look inside to that individual, we'll find something really beautiful. We have another online viewer who is asking us, how can we better incorporate LGBTI individuals into our communities? Anyone want to take a stab at that one? Megan, Kalil, Jamie, how do we better incorporate LGBTI individuals into our community? I'll take Talon. Really, it's as simple as opening up a chair, right? LGBTI folks are just humans just like you. They have their talented people with their own skill sets. If there's an awkwardness about inviting an LGBTI person, we'll look at them as a talented person with special skill sets that are valuable to your team. There's no reason to isolate the LGBTI. All you got to do is open up a seat at the table. It's as simple as that. I was just going to add that I think it's also, you know, it's important to have the intention, right? And so I think it starts with having the intention and understanding and belief that, you know, all in acceptance of all people and all parts of who we are. I think, you know, where I'm at now at Power California, you know, part of our work is to really make sure that we are an organization that works across the spectrum of all identities. And so our work is about mobilizing young voters of color to be able to advance and change the state of California and be able to have their voices heard, right? And so we do voter mobilization, voter engagement. In that work, we are very intentional about how are we inclusive of all young people of color, right? And so that work starts with, like, how are we making sure that the work that we do and the spaces that we're in and the spaces that we have are, that folks of all diversities and diverse backgrounds feel like they are welcome here. Right? And so I think that the way to really make those spaces inclusive for LGBTQIA folks is to have that intentionality and doing the work to say, how do we make sure that everyone can show up in all the ways? And so I think, you know, there's so many ways that that looks. It can be, you know, on an intake form at your organization, right? You ask her folks, okay, to share their sexual orientation or gender identity, right? Or it can be in how do you make the space safe in a meeting where folks are able to share their pronouns, right? Or, and, you know, there's tons of other ways, but I think it really starts with saying, like, what is the work that we need to do to make sure that we are making the space for all people, and then you go from there. I like that. So it's not necessarily that you have to have a 400,000 person pride event in your city. It can be as simple as putting pronouns in your email signature, a question on an intake form, or inviting someone to lunch and talking with them in your immediate community. Thank you. We have a question from our viewers at the Embassy Bishkek. How do you handle those who oppose inclusive efforts, rallies and other events? Anyone have experience with that here? Not really. I mean, honestly, I'd love to be able to comment on this, but, you know, the lens that I'm coming through, this is a very American lens where, you know, there is freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, and we don't have those issues. Yeah, there's opposition, but, you know, we face nothing like what our colleagues in Georgia faced this past week, and I think I can accurately propose a solution for you. I think I would be remiss if I was at the State Department that suggested a diplomatic solution, but I think it requires really a multi-pronged approach, right? You need the people that can have a diplomatic conversation with people on the other side, but you also need people to push the envelope and say, hey, this is not right, and I want to do something about it. So keep on fighting, really. Right. There's a long-term, it's a long-game approach, like we were just saying. There's little opportunities like adding pronouns into your work, asking those questions, just having small lunches with people. Maybe that one-on-one lunch becomes a three-person lunch, a four-person, so eventually you bring in to the fold people who are opposed to perhaps a bigger, larger event, and then over time you just sort of gradually warm them up to that inclusive effort. Did anybody else? Yeah. Yeah, go ahead, Kalil. I was just going to say that I think it's really important to lead with love, and that is something that I try to practice as a person of belief, but I also think in the work that I do, we had an experience with PFLAG Portland Black Chapter where we were hosting our anniversary, one of our annual celebration for the organization. And the venue, we were in talks about securing the venue, and they ended up changing their mind and saying we could no longer host a venue there because they were owned by a particular faith group, right? And then it turned into, long story short, we proceeded with conversations, we had support from the community, folks that had other events there were like, we're not going to support this business anymore, we're not going to work with them. And so the venue came back to us and said, you know, we want to work this out and we're, you know, we are sorry for how this happened. But out of that, I think they also went through a process of really changing the way that they do business. They went through a whole process with staff around acceptance, inclusiveness, they changed their policies. And so I think, you know, us leading with love and being open to conversation and being open to not to say, oh, you know, you are saying no to us, so we will no longer deal with you and, you know, we're closing the door, right? And Stan's saying, well, how do we do better? You know, how can we all come together for something better in the future? And I think from that they are a better organization now that's more accepting and inclusive. And so I think that, you know, that is one of the ways that you can deal with, you know, when folks are against who you are and what you're doing, leading with love. And Megan, did you want to jump in on that question as well? Well, I wasn't going to focus on it entirely, but just wanted to kind of couch, I guess, what I want to say by just saying simply sometimes being just who you are and working hard at whatever job it is that you have and rising through the ranks. Not necessarily, because I think, you know, I mean, being who you are, you should be able to be comfortable in your own skin and operate in that space. We know that that's not the way it is for everyone, obviously. But I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that sometimes people will say, you know what? I don't want to know what your religious beliefs are. I don't want to know if you've been divorced. I don't want to know, you know, who you love. Okay, fair enough. I think sometimes when you work hard at whatever it is that you do and you are a good person, as Khalil said, you are kind and loving to others and you sort of lead by example and you're able to rise through the ranks because you just work hard. Sometimes by people just finding out, you know, who you are, it could possibly change their perception as well. You know, if you just give someone that you admire because they're just so kind, they do so much for people. They've helped you out because they happen to be your boss. And they just, I guess, eventually down the line, find out that you happen to be a member of the LGBT community. I mean, I think that can also maybe change minds as well because they already have your respect and perhaps that person might be fearful of an LGBT person because they don't really know them. But I think that once possibly a relationship has had, trust is formed in a business perspective and these things start to, I guess, come out over time. Perhaps minds change. I just wanted to offer that. I like that. Yeah. I mean, I kind of wanted to reiterate the points that Megan and Khalil had made about building relationships. My answer was sort of dismal and now reflecting back on it. There's this great book by, I don't remember his name, Getting to Yes, I think. Getting to Yes. Yes. A lot of State Department folk have, I'm sure, read through it because it was written by a negotiator. But yeah, try to understand your opponent's motivation. And if you can build a community around it or have a discussion with them, do it. Oh, well, for example, a lot of people that come to D.C. Pride may traditionally come from a religious background and what people forget or a lot of LGBT people forget is there are a lot of religious organizations that are respectful to our communities. And we intentionally focus on that. For a lot of people that are coming to Pride, they sort of write off religion outright. But what we do at the festival is we front-load it toward the entrance so that when they walk through, they see all these religious organizations from religions that they might have grown up with that are affirming and supporting of our community. So you might not have that support now, but start building a community and start having those conversations. And I'm sure you'll get there eventually, just like the other two said, start building a relationship and court it over time. So we've got Take Your Time, Work Hard, and Lead With Love. I like that. Thank you all so much. And thank you for those questions to our online viewers. For the second part of our program today, we are going to Pretoria, South Africa to give a local perspective on building inclusive communities. Please join me in welcoming Maureen Mimna. She's the cultural attaché with the U.S. Embassy in Pretoria. Hello, Maureen. Hi. Hello from Pretoria, South Africa. Fantastic. We are so delighted to be part of the team of anchor posts of the School of Digital Interactive. Advancing human rights and dignity for all South Africans is a primary goal for the U.S. Mission to South Africa. And as a native of San Francisco and a career Foreign Service Officer, I've had the privilege of celebrating pride in many countries around the world. And while celebrations may look different from place to place, the purpose is always the same. And we are proud to join efforts in sharing access to equal rights for all. Today's program is intended to advance human rights here in South Africa. And I have the privilege of introducing Dr. Bev Dizzi, who will be sharing the South African story. She is a human rights advocate, a filmmaker, and an LGBTI inclusion activist from Johannesburg. She is a television director who has worked on educational programs, music videos, and reality television. As a filmmaker, she has written, directed, produced, and consulted on more than 20 socio-political and human rights documentaries, many of which have won awards. She just recently returned from a trip to the United States, where she received an honorary doctorate from Claremont University and participated in the IDLP program focused on human rights. Please join me in welcoming Dr. Dizzi. And for those who are here in Pretoria, you may enter your questions on the laptop that is being cast around. Here's Dr. Dizzi. Thank you so much. Hello everyone. I think it's good morning and a good day. Sorry, I'm from Johannesburg, so everything happens in Johannesburg. Dizzi, hello, Johannesburg. So building inclusive communities. I think that has been one of the biggest struggles that we've had as a community, particularly now 20-plus years since the dawn of South Africa's democracy. So I think in celebration of the 50th anniversary of Stonewall, which was the unprecedented events that changed the course of our history, and it inspired us in Johannesburg and created the vision that allowed us to have our own first fight march. I think for the first time, those deemed by society to be outcasts and degenerates stood up and demanded their dignity. The month of June in South Africa is also a significant one, because on the 16th of June in 1906 was the first time since the 1961 Shuffle massacre that young people left their classrooms and demanded an end to their slavery that was meant to rob them of their dignity. And so for me, the fight for social justice has, at its home, the fight for dignity, because it is the dignity that humanity restored. Because when people feel valued and people feel safe, they become part of a humanity and part of the human race. People cannot feel part of a humanity when they end up with dignity. And as a result, we cannot speak of inclusive communities where members of said community are marginalized and have a specific heart. And so for the black LGBTI community, an inclusive community where one feels safe to express themselves is actually only about a dream. For almost the same period, I don't know if I left it to refer to the president in his state of the nation. He addressed many of the social ills and structural inequality, but at the end he was speaking of the dream of a new impossibility for many of us with this heartwrench as that to try to have an inclusive community, one that does not treat us as outcasts and as rioters. Many of our homes are places where we have to navigate our safety on a daily basis. According to one of the first-ever national studies conducted into discrimination and hate crimes against South African LGBTI communities, it was found that 88% of those who experienced hate crimes did not report these incidents. And according to a report conducted as a research initiative of the Loughlin Paypal Paypal Notorio based organization Outlander in Tel Aviv and the Controversial Institute of Waste Relations, there is a staggering 4 out of 10 LGBTI South Africans who know someone who has been burdened for being always suspected. And so in 2016 a few of us, after the brutal murders of the gay men and the lesbian leadership of phosphorus, a few of us got together and formed a loose community for the past 10 days. And our attempt was to interact with the community of this township because there was a lot of violence coming out of this township in the space of a few months, especially against transgender, especially against gay lesbians at the time. We joined with an organization there called the Foster Activators to try and understand what was going on. When we arrived in this township, we found a sense of hopelessness and fascination. There was first people on the network who could not even make a phone call to communicate with their township. Then we found out that there were no street lights and as soon as the sun goes down, it gets pitch black in the area. Refuse does not get picked up. There's no ambulances. We used them on the night of the court. We found people living on the margins and realized that we could not even begin to address violence against the LGBTI community when there was so much violence against women, children and the elderly. And so we realized that poverty creates a kind of scarcity that tells people here's to child. And poverty in itself is violence that rocks people of their dignity. We then understood that people with our dignities are people who have been robbed of their humanity. And so we cannot expect the people who don't have the ability to recognize the humanity of us. And that was a big eye-opener for us because we then realized that we are part of a community and of a society that is in such dire need that we cannot stop talking violence against LGBTI people without talking about some of the structural inequalities that exist. And so the systemic inequalities and injustices are what needs to be addressed. And unfortunately what this also meant is that we realized that there is no active civil society where once in South Africa there used to be very active and robust civil society where we had debate where we had engaged across all the different sectors. It doesn't exist anymore. Women's organizations don't exist anymore. So when you start talking about inclusive communities, there's no central point of access where people are able to then find themselves being able to influence them. I remember when members of my formal organization flowed, we would attend pretty much every organization on the community and the system whether it was a feminist, 18-color, a youth soccer track. It didn't matter what it was. And that is how we began to build inclusive society. It was just by being present in spaces, sometimes without conflict, without even having to announce ourselves by just being present in places who were able to make stuff, interacting in these spaces. But unfortunately, the level of possible society and what structures right now is making it difficult to begin to interact. And so we need to find ways to rebuild community structures. Even as queer people, we are living in a society itself that is not just exclusively just about community life. Everywhere we are, we are facing the same inequalities as actual issues. And so we need to go back to having an active civil society that is engaged, but also one that will force the government to also execute and implement some of the already existing policies. We in South Africa have been raising policies, but we are not active enough in our own civil societies to actually force our government, our leadership to implement some of these policies that will alleviate some of the structural inequalities and therefore some of the discrimination that exists. Thank you so much, Dr. Ditzies. So thank you so much for bringing the conversation about dignity and humanity and the importance of this month as well for all of South Africa. We really appreciate you joining us and introducing yourself and your activism on this program. If we could go back, we do have some more questions from our online viewers. And so I would like to see, ah yes, we have Bongani who's watching from the Rosa Parks Library in Soweto in South Africa who asks, how do we best socialize our communities to not see pride as a threat? Is that a question? Dr. Ditzies, that you want to take on for a moment? We have just one or two minutes for answers. So how do we best socialize our community to not see pride as a threat? I think one of the first things that we do is we invite everyone to pride so that it is not just a queer pride, but a pride that is inclusive of the community. Because obviously wherever we are having pride, not just our communities are there and we are part of the same community. So to pride as an example, invites the rest of our society and the general community to participate in pride. And by being open, and I think this has been addressed by our other speakers, is that by being open and welcoming to the rest of general society in the same way that we would like to be accepted and welcomed is part of the way that we make ourselves a threat. But at the same time, I still think that conscientization of general pride needs to continue. Just stop with pride or pride month or pride week, just one pride march. We need to continue to conscientize because in actual fact, how are we a threat? I do not see it. So we do. We need to take this conversation and keep it going beyond this day, week or month that we are all part of a society and we're humans every single day of the year. And not just this one, thank you. One of our viewers from the embassy at Windhoek asks, what is the most, excuse me, what is most important to understand about differences within diverse communities, especially in the context of pride? So what is most important to remember about the differences? Like, what can we understand what's most helpful to learn about these differences we have in our communities? How have you felt the differences? Our differences is what actually makes us strong. There's not even a saying in trying to aspire to sameness that we are strong. It's in our differences. And we need to recognize that difference brings different views, different talents, different ways of thinking. And it is in these differences that we find as threats. I think what we want to move to differences in our communities, that it will in actual fact bring up a relation, which is not sameness. And therefore we need to respect the differences, particularly within the LGBT community, where we have such strong views, the gay community, where there are such big divisions between the men, trans women, black lesbians. It is just not a stop. And we cannot afford to be doing that when we ourselves are living in societies that are threatening our very lives. It is in our unity. It is in the differences in our unity, both in our differences, that make us strong. Thank you. And this question is open to all of our panelists. Feel free to jump in if you hear a question you like. A viewer in Namibia asks, is the Pride movement inclusive of individuals outside of the LGBTI community? And I believe, Jamie, you had touched on that a little bit, right? Is it inclusive of people beyond just these initial members? So important for us, right? We got to remember the grander context of things, right? The LGBTI community, writ large as a percentage of population, is estimated about 10% of the population, right? So 90, there's 90% of the population that need to be, or at least 45% of the population that need to be allies in order for us to get anything done. And the question about, have we been as accepting the allies? That's an interesting question, actually, and I've sort of struggled with it internally, right? My team, we've done a little bit of research around what our audience thinks about Pride, and I won't say all of them, but a good portion of people when asked about the inclusiveness of our straight allies at Pride, there was some pushback, interestingly. And I don't think it extends into private sector or personal life. I think it's just the space of Pride being an LGBT space that we were asking about. So that's a fascinating question. Beyond Pride Weekend, I think absolutely, right? We need our straight allies, and our straight allies have really been helping us push our movement forward with the credence and respect to all of the LGBT leaders that have been voicing their concerns and getting legislation through. But at Pride Festival and at Pride Weekends, that's an interesting question. For me, it's still up in the air. Anybody else before I move on to the next question? Have I thought about including others during Pride events or Pride Weekend or something, how inclusive or not is that? Just add real quick. Kalia? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I guess one for us, we kind of were started under this model of being a space for about half of folks were identified as non-HBTQ folks and half folks did identify as part of the community. I mean, it's kind of the model of PFLAG, parents, fans and families of lesbians and gays. But I also think that, you know, just in the work that we did, you know, we just always had folks that were allies or folks that wanted to, you know, celebrate and support us and be a part of, you know, the work we're doing and the events we had, you know, from the beginning. I think that, you know, it was, you know, like we have, it's like, you know, my mom should be able to come to with me if she wants to or my cousin or my aunt, you know what I'm saying? Or so I feel like, you know, we are not like siloed individuals, right? We're all a part of the communities we belong to, right? And so, you know, I think that it's about like making space for me to be able to, you know, bring my village, my community, my, you know, folks that I'm connected to, to, you know, be a part of the world that I'm living in, right? Whether that's going to a Pride event or other things. And I'll just say real quickly that the organization I'm with now, Power California, you know, our organization is, our staff is like 65% identified as LGBTQI. And so, you know, we're not, we're not like a specifically a LGBTQ organization, but we have, you know, we are a fully inclusive organization, right? And this is the natural formation of the talent and the interest and the passion has brought to be a part of our organization and our staff. And so I think that just speaks to like, you know, there, we are all accepting of all of who we are as a staff and the, you know, we're folks from all parts of the world and from all different communities and all different backgrounds and religions, you know, which is really exciting for who we are. And I think, you know, we are, you know, able to make the space for everyone to go with it, to show up and feel welcome in that. Thank you, Khalil. That actually helps us answer the next question we had from an online viewer, which is, what are the best ways someone who doesn't identify as an LGBTI individual serve as an ally to the community? And one of your answers was, right, maybe someone can join you in identifying an individual to an event, you know, find someone in your community. If you don't know anybody in your immediate community who identifies as LGBTI, maybe that's something to work on. Surely they're there. Maybe someone doesn't feel safe letting you know. So if you can kind of present yourself as a safe ally. Or like you said, Khalil, your organization is only 65% LGBTI identifying. So perhaps there's volunteer activities that we could join in. Megan, I wanted to ask and throw it over to you. Is there any thoughts that you had about people who are non-identifying to serve as allies in this community? Well, I think specifically for the organization that we have at NBC, the NBC out that I continue to mention, I mean, it's always nice when people join the group, joining the conversation, because it is true that some people may not know that they know someone who is of the LGBT community. And I think, you know, acceptance, understanding. And the more you get to know a person from a certain group, whatever group that may be, it was just group, ethnic group, you know, gender, whatever it is, you build tolerance, you build understanding, minds change. And I think that there's so much value to be had, as our friends in South Africa mentioned, by having a diverse community and different ways of thinking across the board. And so there is something to be gained. There's enrichment to be had when you expose yourself to a group that may not think as you or may not love as you do. You're expanding your knowledge. You're getting to know people. And I think when you drill down to it, you're understanding that, you know, we're all pretty much alike in the end. I think we all have the same goals in mind, wanting the best for ourselves and our family to be happy, to be loved. And I think that at the end of the day, as it may sound, there really is more that brings us together than divides us. And I think so much of fear comes from the unknown. If you never knew someone who was Jewish or Christian and you had preconceived notions of perhaps what you've seen on TV or what you've read or what you've heard, it's easy to stay in that space and to be fearful and to be judgmental and to criticize. But once you get to know someone, understand struggles and just know the person for who they are, minds begin to change. And so being a part of an organization or having a conversation, getting to know someone who's not like you, there's a lot of value there. And then, as already has been mentioned, you know, you might be a safe ear for someone to come to to share something. So, yeah, I hope that answered the question. Yes, thank you so much, Megan. And so I'd like to move us on to the third segment of our program today, which is in Windhoek Namibia. With that, I would like to invite and welcome Circa Amambo. She manages communications and small grants for the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, or PEPFAR, as I mentioned. So hi and welcome Circa. Over to you in Namibia. Good afternoon. Welcome to Windhoek, very cold. PEPFAR Namibia works closely with civil society organizations and in keeping with inclusive environment, we work with a lot of organizations, also KP-led, which is working with PLHIV, people living with HIV, as women with gays, lesbians, sex workers. And together with the Global Fund, PEPFAR has also worked towards delivering key populations with friendly health services. And this is done through various organizations, such as the Warfish Play Color Group in Namibia, NAPA, as well as the Society for Family Health. And in trying to improve us, we deliver to the key populations. We're carrying out an integrated biological and legal service. And the whole idea is to feed us with information to help us improve on our strategies for working with LGBT persons in Namibia specifically. So now I'm going to hand over to Linda. Hi, I'm Linda Beaumont, feminist communications and gender and human rights activist. Before I get to present our part, I quickly want to touch on the last question that was asked around, is Pride inclusive beyond Yelp? Is it exclusive for LGBT people? It's important to remember and understand that the existence of Pride is to celebrate the diversity within the LGBT community. Over the years, Pride has become inclusive of our friends, family and friends. So that initially shows that the progress around Pride, but also in Namibia, our Pride has always been, Pride Month has always been in December, which falls within the 50 days of activism. But however in June, we also amplify the importance of Pride. But I just want to note there that it's important to note that also Pride, there are Pride spaces that are just exclusive for the LGBT people. And there are spaces that are inclusive, so that is what happened in order for processes to be advanced. Now I'm going to move on to the progressive legal framework we have in Namibia. Homosexuality is not illegal in Namibia. The practice of sodomy is illegal, but under the preface of unnatural offenses. However, that set aside, Namibia has got a very progressive legal framework. First the teaching itself is a stepping stone to dignifying and non-disciplination in the country. First forward, 2007, when Namibia removed the clause of sexual orientation from the Labour Act, second forward to 2015, finally Namibia have developed a human rights action plan that is the only policy document that speaks about interventions from public service to the LGBTI community. Then also just boarding on what SILCA was saying, the National HIV Strategic Framework is also one major critical document that ensures that access to services, healthcare services are tamed in the country even though we still need to look around inclusivity, appropriate and integrated services. The health patients charter is also one progressive charter that we have in the country that is explicit with the clause of sexual orientation and also our national education curriculum is also progressive. After 20 years, we finally have a national orientation policy where it speaks around the issue of sexual orientation. So, structurations that we are having, however, within these legislation that we have expressed structurally, there is a lot of inequalities in justices and discrimination experienced by LGBTI peoples which fills into our social spectrum of homophobia and transphobia being advanced. That is where the reality of the environment of our political landscape is playing a critical role in terms of ensuring that communities have access to information and understanding who we are, but also ensuring that communities have access to support systems. This is why Namibia over the past 10 years moving from a one organization, the LGBT-led organization to about 10 LGBT organizations existing in the country, which specializes also in particular specific identities, which shows about the progress and the social fraternity of our communities. However, culture also has an impotence around how we navigate the narratives around sexual orientation and gender identity and how we reclaim that in terms of Namibians. So that also is an area that needs to be given attention, not just by the nation itself, but broadly the LGBT community needs to be able to engage around the issue of culture and tradition and what that means and broadly also the issue of spiritual growth. And how that advances into issues of moral values that the state keeps advancing as a stumbling block of our existence. However, our national call for action is very straightforward. We're looking for an enabling environment which will create enabling services and through that we first look at it from a structural basis that would first look at abolishing or repealing the Sodomy law, but also looking into the death and death act that allows transgender persons to change their gender marker. The fact that the services attained within the legal framework does not allow transgender people to do it so, but we are calling upon the state to operationalize its promise it's saying within the policy framework. That also leads us to ensuring that the constitutional advancement and protection of LGBT people is strengthening the country. I am waiting for the first office of my country to give complete recognition to LGBTI people in this country. Even though in the in the in the in the vacuum in the silos, those conversations have come up. It needs to position itself in acknowledging the existence of the LGBT people, but also in the regional and intimate. However, maybe has positioned to say we are taking care of all the medians irrespective of your sexual orientation. Thus, we are also calling upon the importance around the hate speech legislation that is gained this country, which will control not just the homophobia, by phobia and transphobia speeches against us, but if you look at broad spectrums of how hate speech impacts on all citizens in the country. And that also extends to the narrative and the progressive dialogue that is taking place around health that speaks that has a complete HIV lens without looking at a sexual reproductive health and rights lens, which initially creates a clear division. We're going to go back to our online viewers for just a moment. We have some more questions coming in while we give Linda and the embassy in Namibia some time to clear up the technical difficulties. Ruth from the Embassy of Burundi asks, how can we handle or overcome conflict that is within the LGBTI community? So this is a question about handling conflict that's happening within the LGBTI community, like perhaps an example of whether to make it open to allies or just small or which direction maybe a legal frame of action is going to go or come in. Is that something for Linda or for any of our other panelists who have maybe the technical difficulties cleared up at the moment? So I'll take that one. Thanks, Jamie. So Capital Pride experienced some of this in real terms a couple of years ago. It's important to us to actually embrace it. Conflict is healthy for everyone involved and it pushes the frontier forward. It has to be vetted and both parties actually have to come to the table and talk about it. I think what is important is to get at the underlying intent on both sides and figure out a common way forward. If one party is not participating, then take the feedback and internalize it, process it and drive forward yourself because it was perhaps a valid feedback if only partially so but still feedback that was necessary to push the boundaries of our community. So conflict is healthy. Embrace it. It might be hard but embrace it and move forward. And lead with love like Khalil was saying, right? Try to find some love within that conflict or that community. Absolutely. We have another question from an online viewer in Pretoria. In countries with young democracies such as South Africa and Namibia, although the law prohibits discriminations based on sexual orientation, it's society as a whole that is not yet as inclusive. What can be done to change the minds and hearts of society to promote inclusivity even within the LGBT community? Do we have a panelist who would like to take this one on? So it's a question about promoting inclusivity within a greater society where the legal framework is safe to do so. Yeah, I think, can you hear me? Yep. Hi, Khalil. Thanks for joining. Yeah, I'll just, you know, quickly respond to that. I thought someone from South Africa and that person, but I'll just say quickly. I think that one thing that's important is that with along with like policy change, culture shift is really important. And so I think that, you know, there has to be a concerted effort around how do we have culture shift in the work that we're doing, right? So why we're also fighting for policy, we're fighting to change laws. What are the ways that we are working to shift culture and change hearts and minds? So how are we not only, you know, dispelling this false narrative that has been kind of the rhetoric that's kind of been ingrained in so many people's thinking and in our cultural narrative and society, but also how do we replace that with a new narrative, right? Something that's really more true and authentic. That is really the long term work that has to happen. And I'm blinking on the example. There's been many examples in history, right? And I'm blanking on the one that I wanted to share, but there's been examples where, you know, there was, in the United States specifically, there was, this was kind of the common narrative about who a community was or about how we thought about a certain issue, right? And then the work that had to be done over time, that was really strategic in a lot of ways, right? That has changed those kind of like perceptions to where this is now an accepted or an unaccepted behavior, right? To where there was a point in time where the common narrative was something that was kind of different than that. And maybe somebody can kind of explain that a little better than what I'm saying, but I think it's really important that we are focusing on not only advocacy and policy change, but included in that connected to that also needs to be culture and narrative shift work. I'd like to end from Pretorium to what Linda said, that it does take work and it does take work all the time. And I think I understand what you mean. In South Africa, around 1994, while there was the euphoria of freedom, we were able to do a lot of media work where all it was was explaining to a lot of people who kept saying that what is this? And I think we need to go back to the kind of patience that we had and because had we not been patient enough to actually talk to people on a human to human level and explain who are on a very personal level, some of the work that I did in filming the documentary series, as well as some of the other activists, what a lot of the time did was to just communicate who we are to people. Once people understand who you are as a human being, they begin to realize that we have some of the same struggles, some of the same problems, some of the same issues and therefore sexual orientation starts becoming less of a thing to focus on. And just to kind of backtrack a little bit onto the allies, we have a lot of allies in South Africa who attend a lot of pride events, but they are created almost for the allies and yet we never hear the allies speaking up whenever there is any huge narrative that is going to hurt us. And so I also really expect that within our own communities with the amount of allies that exist that they also need to add their voices in speaking up against discrimination and in particular the hate speech and we are not seeing a lot of them in particular at home in South Africa. I don't know what it's like when we realize we have a huge amount of allies who are mostly disabilities that could be doing more because adding these voices is also part of changing the narrative. It can be really difficult but I appreciate that, you know, to stand up in your immediate community and say something against hate speech to sort of advocate for, right, like we were been saying, leading with love, speaking with love and standing up to someone who you love that may be saying something quite hurtful is really, really difficult but so helpful in the long term. Seb from Pretoria asks, and this is a sort of nuanced question on what we've been talking about, in light of the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall uprising, how do we keep older LGBTI activists engaged in the larger community and prevent ageism from separating the different groups in the larger community? So now we've got two kind of conflicting isms added on top of this sort of discriminatory against your sexual orientationism and ageism. How do we keep them all together in the community? Who wants to jump on it? Okay, I'll jump on it. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I'm jumping on it particularly because I haven't been part of organizing within movements, although I've been part of community in a very long time. So I'm considered one of them. Can I say it? Because we were some of the people who were there at the beginning of this movement in the late 80s. As a result, I am also finding that young ones are now the ones in the forefront of organizing to almost the exclusion of us. But then how we also isolate and separate ourselves can also be to our own detriment. I am finding myself having more conversations with the young LGBTIQ people in my community and being asked and being invited to have those intergenerational conversations. Because it is helpful also in that while young people are going through some of the same issues that we went through when we were starting the movement, they are now reinventing the wheel to a large degree. And it is very unnecessary because we couldn't actually be having these communications that advance our ideas to stop the discrimination that we invented earlier. And so I do believe that we need to be interactive with each other more. We also as older ones need to be inviting and having more connections than what we are. Thank you so much Dr. Dizzi. We do have time. We have one final question. I like this one. An online viewer asked us how can sports contribute to the advancement of LGBTI rights? I like this. Any takers? How can sports contribute to the advancement of LGBTI rights and recognition? I'll take that one. Yes. So about two years ago DC actually lobbied for the Gay Olympics to be hosted here in Washington DC. Oh, fun. It was sort of like a bonding of the entire community actually because it was both municipal and government and their sport agencies partnering with the LGBT sports groups of DC to pitch a proposal for how it might actually work out, bring it to DC. So we made it a concerted effort to make sure that, because it was important, make sure that that was actually represented on our festival grounds. And in doing some research and finding out more about what that community is, it's really an opportunity to sort of humanize our community. For a lot of people, there's a lot of, you know, a feminine speculation on a lot of members of our community. So this is one way to break that mold and say, hey, we can play sports just like you. But it's like entertainment, right? It's that thing that everybody, despite what your other values may be, like we can all get along and watch a few people tackle each other on the field because it's entertaining. So it's a great humanizer to bring together communities. And over the past few years, we've sort of leveraged it in different ways. One is definitely leveraging the different sports communities of DC. Another is leveraging sort of star power within those communities. We had a speaker come out from, or the amazing Leti, Amazon Leti came out for a panel at the Embassy of Australia. And she also spoke on our panel at the Asian Pacific Islander Pride here in DC. And she spoke about how sports can actually be a sort of safe space for everybody and maybe not necessarily as accepting communities to have a conversation about it. And so those are the ways that we leverage sports in DC. But I'd be interested to see how some of our other colleagues might leverage sports to improve their communities. We are just about out of time, though. So I'm afraid I have to get the sports talk short. But because I do want to give all of our speakers an opportunity to tell us what they see as the most important new trend or recent developments in organizing pride this year. And to let us know really quickly, are there ways that you work with pride organizations in other countries or parts of the world? So what are some trends you're seeing? What are you looking forward to that's upcoming in pride organization? And how do you work with others across the globe? Khalil, can we start with you? And to all of our panelists, I ask that we be as brief as possible so that everyone gets a chance to speak before our program is over. Oh, you're still on mute. Yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay, there you are. I'll be really brief. You know, I think a new trend I see is that one, we are in this place where there is a trend of much more acceptance. So you have a lot more businesses, corporations, groups, you know, that are wanting to celebrate and be a part and, you know, support pride and pride communities. And I also see a trend of moving away from kind of the foundation and origin to pride, which I think is something that we need to make sure doesn't necessarily happen, right? So I think, you know, it's coming out of the Stonewall riots and how, you know, pride was really about standing up, fighting back and saying, you know, my voice matters and I am deserving as a human of equality and to be as a human being, right? And I see the wave of a party atmosphere that kind of goes away from that. I think there's a space to have a party and celebratory climate, right? And spaces, but also to, you know, not forget the foundation and that there's work to be done and that this is what that was built upon and where we came from. But I think it's great that you have that trend of, you know, much more accepting across the board because I think that also helps advance progress. Thank you. And next we'll move on to Megan. Any final thoughts on what you're looking forward to with Pride, how to connect with others? And thank you for being as brief as possible. I am definitely optimistic because as Khalil said, we are starting to see the momentum and progression moving in the right direction of more and more companies being more visible, being more inclusive and celebrating Pride and understanding the importance of bringing everyone together and allowing people to be comfortable in who they are. I just want to go back to the one point that I made earlier. I just think that there's so much more productivity that we get from people when they feel safe and comfortable in who they are at work to be able to just produce and to be a part of a team. I think that if you look at any sports team that's successful, it's because they work well together. There's the trust that's there. I think that's applicable to any space. When people feel included, when people feel accepted, when people feel like they are contributing, when they can be who they are, they feel safe, they give more of themselves. And whatever task is at hand becomes even more of a priority because they feel like they belong. They have a safe space there. And so I think that once you take a look at the broader realm of things, you understand that just merely making sure that people feel that they are included and welcomed, it just benefits everybody. So I think I'm just very optimistic and excited to see so many different organizations, so many different jurisdictions around the country flying pride flags or sending the message that all are welcome and that being who you are is okay and is enough. Thank you for having me. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. And let's go back to our speaker in Pretoria, South Africa. Dr. Ditzi, what do you think the future holds for the Pride movement? And thank you for being as brief as possible as well. Thank you very much. I do think that we have a bit of a situation in South Africa. Our Pride happens in September, October. For most of South Africa, although we have Pride in June, the Alliance doesn't. But I do believe that with the 50th celebration that's happening in the Western Hemisphere, there is a bit of an inspiration to attempt a, I think let me quickly, quickly context. Our Pride is fractured. Our Pride in South Africa is fractured along racial lines in particular, where you have a pride that is pure celebration. I think you mentioned this, where it is pure party, where there's very little politics and very little protests that happens as part of Pride. And then you have, on the other hand, more black pride, so where to pride, people's pride, which are more political in their organizing and in their intent. But I do think that the 50th celebration is inspiring and attempting to have a conversation that will hopefully attempt to bring back pride, because I do believe in many of the communities, that there is space celebration and protests at the same time. They should not be mutually exclusive. And it is unfortunate that at the moment we don't have one Pride that we can all attend and be proud to be a part of. But I do believe, and I do think that the trend is, in all particular questions, going back to this conversation that will allow for a unified Pride that actually came to us for all of us. Those who want to just celebrate it, those of us who know that there's so much more to protest. And thank you very much for having me. Thank you, Dr. Ditzie. Thank you again. And Jamie, from our studio, final thoughts? There's a lot to be proud about. And I love the direction that our movement is going. Corporations are a lot more inclusive than they've ever been. But I want to be real for a second. There was a recent survey done by Harrispole and Human Rights Campaign. And it showed a backslide, if not marginal, but a backslide in LGBTI acceptance. And so our fight isn't over, especially in the United States. It's continual and it might last into the future. But I am very hopeful and optimistic about what our community holds. Our festival is the most accessible and sustainable that it's ever been. We're working on international initiatives across the globe. The Organization of American States, their LGBTI core group, focused on LGBTI economics and prosperity. Great work with the EU delegation. There's a lot to be optimistic about. And really, it's all up to the people listening right now. You have a message, you have a story, you have a vision of the future. Life is short. Get out there and make it happen. We're here for you. I think every panelist that was on today is here to help you, if not us personally, than getting you headed in the right direction. And with that, thank you for having us. Thank you for allowing me to be here. And I'll pass it back to you. Thank you, Jamie. And I'd like to share apologies to our group and friends in Wendic Namibia. There seems to be a small problem with the connection we have there. But I do want to thank their group for their participation, especially Linda Magana Bowman, for her presentation and everything she's doing to further the cause in her community. And I'd like to thank everyone for joining us today for this important program from all of the corners of the world where you are. So before we go, I would like to extend a special thank you to those online viewers joining us through Facebook and also to the viewing groups that have gathered today to join us online. We had groups at the U.S. Embassy in Bishkek in the Kyrgyz Republic with local organizations Labriss, Beer Duino, and the Adalette Legal Clinic, U.S. Embassy in Pretoria, South Africa, U.S. Embassy in Wendic Namibia, Rosa Parks Library and Innovation Studio in Soweto, Johannesburg, South Africa, the American Corner Mangwang in Bloom Fountain, South Africa, U.S. Embassy in Guatemala City, Guatemala, and the U.S. Embassy in La Paz, Bolivia. Thank you to everyone here for being with us today, and I hope to see you next time. Bye-bye.