 So just very quickly a couple of housekeeping rules We do have translation for those of you who are bilingual e-challenge. That's okay You're a part of the growing majority in this country We have three fantastic panelists joining us this afternoon to have a conversation on drug policy and immigration reform Bridging the gap and keeping families together. My name is Armando within your drug policy manager in the state of, California for the drug policy Alliance based out of the city of Los Angeles and How's everybody doing? All right, good. You guys are awake. I'll be honest I was thinking when I first saw the schedule Saturday afternoon Most of you are gonna come in here hung over at those crudels But now I see you guys are the ones that are keeping it straight Congratulations. Thank you very much. Thanks for being here Believe it or not when I started the conference I came out here a little bit before the conference started and I've had a full head of hair So it goes to show you how how stressful this experience has been So today, let me one additional housekeeping rule or housekeeping issue The panelists listed on this book some of them had some other work Related issues that came up and as it is in this type of work Sometimes we need to do a little bit of switching so we ended up even with a better group of panelists, right? So that said I am going to provide a A description of who our panelists are Unlike some other events today or throughout the conference that just went into the topic in conversation With us our first speaker is Marco Castillo. He's a social anthropologist Former director and founder of the Institute of Social and Cultural Investigation and Practice where you focus On several issues among others which include justice and equality in the border regions of US Mexico and Central America after moving on through a couple of other prominent organizations today he coordinates the Mexico based popular assembly of migrant families now I Should have said this before I bring up Marco and before I read his bio is brief bio One of the things that I'm hoping we can achieve here today Right as we came together and discussed this panel and discussed the topic I'm hoping to be able to bring to you guys a view a look into the macro problem that is Immigration migration of people in particular from Latin America and the context of the war on drugs and Marco is very important to this topic because he's gonna be able to give us an insight into the causes of Migration in Mexico and other places. What is causing this this horrific and Catastrophic life-changing events and people that are making them flee from there We're gonna bring it a bit more focus and go back to the United States and let me say we all know it's like a documentary We can't cover all issue areas. So we focus on one We're good. We're then gonna go to our second panelist Grace Meng who is a researcher with human rights watch We'll go into her bio a little bit later on and she's gonna focus it a little bit more in one particular area That is an effect a second devastating impact of the war on drugs Haven't fled the violence haven't fled the causes To come to another country Many seeking a form of asylum fleeing the violence and then here again their hit with another form of political violence and Then we're gonna wrap it up with our third speaker an Attorney who specializes on these issues and provide an example just one example of one of the things that we can do and are trying to do here in the states To address the issues the impact of the war on drugs and all of this with regard to the issue of the immigrant community third rail of politics ladies and gentlemen Across the board especially within the war on drugs one of the things that we found out Those of us that are on this panel many of you who are here that we know Is that within the drug policy reform movement? Immigration is a delicate issue? Right you want to pass significant legislation, but you're afraid to include immigrants We've seen this in California with other legislation that went to the saw to minimize the impact of political or Prosecution of certain laws, but we decided to keep out immigrants from that issue. So we have to come up with other ways Yeah, these are important issues. So I want you guys to listen. Don't just hear what they're gonna say listen Because I think this is I think the only panel in this conference is exclusively looking at the issue of immigration, right? Let's see a couple heads Right and considering that there's tens of millions of immigrants in this country both legal and both With permits and non permitted Frankly we're behind the 8-ball so with that I bring up Marco Castillo To give us the first an important analysis on the causes of migration mark And you don't have to come up. In fact feel free to stay there brother Okay All right. Thank you and hi everybody I Can't promise I wouldn't be switching from English to Spanish. I'm sorry for the translator south I'm trying to do this in English and I'm gonna do it. I feel more comfortable with it, but Sometimes I might just switch from one to other I would like to begin by sharing with you a little bit of the work that I do For the past for for 14 years we've been dedicating ourselves to work With immigrant communities in communities of origin and return So we are working in Mexico with those who remain while others migrate basically mothers wives children Of those who come to the United States and work Through through this work, we've been able to see and witness the some of the Consequences and causes of of the root causes of forest migration and obviously it slinks with Systemic issue of criminalization of communities of indigenous communities of communities of color and how that is directly related with the so-called Warren drugs and so Through this work for example in 2012 we did the caravan for peace Which some of my colleagues are here In that caravan for peace We were able for the first time to try to be very explicit about the links and crossing points between migration and Warren drugs Sometimes seems like they're separate discussions separate debates and And in the end we discovered that we are walking the same paths. We were unfortunately sharing a tragedy and and Yeah, it's basically the same routes it's basically Informal economy that it's benefiting some at the expense of the life of others and Yes, I would say just that in general and to go right now into the issue I would say that migration and the drug war are both Evidences of an economic and political system that sustains itself through inequality Just by looking at the numbers more than 70,000 disappearances in Mexico and less than Since since 2010 I would say approximately and more than 6.6 million Undocumented migrants in the United States. It's more than a clear evidence that These numbers show us how How this is something that it's giving benefits to a handful of people at the expense of Millions of others who are being displaced through migration or Because of violence many of the communities where where all of these things happen Meaning migration or displacements of violence are very rich communities full of resources that could have provided Opportunities economic opportunities for those who live in there there's a clear intention of pushing people out in order to insert them in the economic in an economic system whether it's informal such as you know drug trade or or unregulated labor and Such as migration Meanwhile many businesses and consumers whether it's Drugs or restaurants or whatever in the US have been benefiting out of the out of the violence and out of force migration That's another point that we share and so migrant labor is cheap and some drugs are cheap because of this and and so this kind of of capitalist thinking Brings benefits and sometimes we don't realize what it's going on behind it. So From that market perspective who would be interested then in ending this money-making machine Obviously, there is there's an intention of keeping things the way they are in both countries, so communities of color may have been put it pushed out into poverty and violence to To insert them in informal economy and and or criminalizing and such I already talked about this But I would like to be explicit about two cases One I would like to talk about Santo Domingo Guerrero This community in Guerrero started to grow marijuana and and during the world war by Yes, second world war probably and then Vietnam just at the demand of the US government People began to you know grow it and then they would ship it in the coast to send it to the US US Submarines will come and and take the the weed and then just bring it to the soldiers and a broad and Also at the same time many of these communities in Guerrero were recruited to build the you know the railroads and and many of the basic infrastructure of this country and then So we have right now By national community many of the people that we work in the state of Guerrero They all are many of them are residents US citizens But but situations have changed Drastically and now this same community in Guerrero. It's a criminalized is taken by the drug Cortels and people who's living under Incredibly violent circumstances this by a national community Where the growth of marijuana have been sponsored by the US government is today killing and disappearing children and women almost on a weekly basis and how unfortunate this is and So it's a transnational issue in many of the young kids who Have dual citizenship are Perfect target for many of the drug hotels because they can be sent here with with I don't know to smuggle Drugs or or whether it's to bring people so It's definitely a by national issue. I just want to add to this example example then that what it's happening in Mexico It's not only responsibility of Mexico. It's every day much more a transnational Issue we are more than neighbors We have become family and families and many many many of the drug lords have have a Passport have a US passport have a green card including including a chapel obviously We all know that Okay, and the second example I want to I want to share every every week Every week 260 Migrants are being Flyed into Mexico City through an private charter plane every week 260 mostly men are being sent to Mexico City after deportation and Many of them after being charged with nonviolent cases and Obviously all of them are being separated from their families. We are receiving again every week at the airport 260 and just in Mexico City through the through the deep deportation program that and and This is important to mention because many of these kids that are being sent to Mexico City go there after never ever have lived in Mexico they are basically born and raised in the in the US and after going through a Deportation and then showing up in Mexico City all of a sudden they have no connection to the community They have no connection to the country some some of them not even they don't even speak Spanish and They have no opportunities and the Mexican government obviously is doing nothing to Take advantage of the presence of this Population and instead of that they've organized crime has been taken advantage of them and so they are being re recruited again and being inserted in a cycle of going back and forward in a Double or triple criminalized Sector of the economy and many of this of these kids end up homeless in Mexico City or other capital cities and obviously jobless and many of them and Being again recruited by organized crime And I would just end by saying under this circumstances a Piece of legislation will not be enough if it doesn't speak a different language and if it doesn't incorporate migrant communities at transnational perspective a regional perspective over the issues that we are facing and if it's not connected from a human rights perspective the different dots of one Single strategy, which is the war on drugs, which is affecting many many people not only users not only producers But many of their families or the communities of color that are linked to this Unfortunate strategy, that's it Thank you Medical, thank you very much. I just want to highlight a couple things folks that medical reference And his brief time with us here 70,000 disappeared and those estimates You know go up down depending on who you ask But 70,000 people have disappeared 6.6 million people have Through migration displacement and violence is what Marco said And one form or another been pushed out to become unregulated labor and part of the informal economy All of which who has reaped the benefits? We are this country those of us in this room and That's what it is folks all right Transnational issue is what Marco is telling us every week 260 Migrants flown to Mexico City after deportations for petty drug crimes, which is a great segue to our next speaker But as grace man comes up here and talks to us keep in mind what Marco just put in context for us Right that a lot of these young people a lot of these older people young men and and young boys And sure there's women in the mix are being effect is essentially in a class of their own Not even recognized some of them are becoming homeless some of them are being caught back into the cycle of organized crime Which in turn Perpetuates the very violence that we are here today saying we want to end and the war on drugs This is a key issue that really highlights that if we don't address the immigration issue Ladies and gentlemen, we're not gonna end the war on drugs if we don't address the migration issue The displacement issue the violence issue in Mexico because as Marco said we're no longer neighbors Hell we haven't been neighbors for a long time I mean you whether you want to start with NAFTA or generations before NAFTA Hell we can go back to those of us have been here since Mexico decided to stumble across the ocean and come on I'm sorry. The US decided to stumble across the border and come on over and claim it for themselves 260 migrants flown into Mexico City for petty drug crimes Our next speaker who's gonna join up here and drop me off my little podium, which I as you can tell I'm enjoying is Grace Meng That's my boss laughing by the way, but she knows it She's a senior researcher in the US program at Human Rights Watch Investigates she investigates abuses in the US immigration system her research and advocacy have covered sexual violence and harassment Experienced by farm worker women and girls abuse following enhancements of Alabama's anti-immigration law the step The steep rise in criminal border prosecutions of migrants and how deportations for drug offenses have torn US families apart Grace is a graduate graduate of Yale College and Yale Law School and This is the report that grace was be speaking to Grace you have the floor Mundo Hi, everyone. Thanks so much for being here I Work for Human Rights Watch if you're not familiar with our organization. We're international independent nonprofit We document human rights abuses all over the world. We have Issued reports on the disappeared in Mexico documenting how many people have have been have disappeared because of the drug war We've issued reports on so-called rehabilitation centers in Southeast Asia where People are abused rather than helped And in the US my work has focused on how the immigration system intersects with the criminal justice system And I think the best way for me to explain to you why this issue is so important to me And why I hope it will be so important to you is illustrated best by the story of a man. I met this year This is Jose Francisco Gonzalez and his family his partner Peter Sanchez their nine-year-old daughter I met Peter and Jose in Anaheim, California this year Last year in April 2014 Jose and Peter were woken at 6 30 a.m. By a knock on their door when Peter opened the door. There were five or six Uniform men with guns dogs. They were there to arrest Jose You might wonder what did Jose do? Jose is a green card holder. He's been in the US for over 30 years He spent most of his life, you know working hard in various jobs until he was disabled. He's actually on crutches now And they came and took him away He actually doesn't even have a record. He does have a drug arrest and this is sort of an interesting story In 2001 police came to Jose's apartment complex looking for a lost child They saw two pot plants on his balcony Jose says they were his brothers. I don't care who they were regardless. He was arrested for marijuana cultivation But because it was so obviously for personal use in California He was offered a diversion program called deferred entry a judgment and in this program you plead guilty You complete the program and when you're done You're promised that you have no record. You can even honestly answer if an employer asks you have you ever been arrested? You can say no So Jose did this. He did everything they asked. He thought he had put it behind him. He had a clean record. It was his only arrest He never expected that 13 years later immigration would come to arrest him They took him to Atalanto a detention center two hours east of LA. He has a ton of health problems He ended up bleeding on the floor of his cell. He was hospitalized multiple times Peter didn't even know where he was they wouldn't tell her because they say it's a security issue He was finally released because of his medical problems, but he's still in deportation proceedings He's being charged with a being an aggravated felon as being a drug trafficker because his conviction Or so-called conviction Includes marijuana cultivation which includes an element of sale so this is I think a really good example of how Immigration law has not caught up with reforms in the criminal justice system You know, I think all of us here. We are not satisfied with where reform is in the criminal justice system We want to see more but we can agree that a lot has changed You know the discourse has changed or rhetoric has changed. I've had DA's and police officers tell me Oh, I don't care about Mr. Meena possession That's not the way immigration sees it And this is not at all a minor problem So this is based on data we receive from immigration and customs enforcement through a freedom of information at request from 2007 to 2012 Over a quarter of a million people who were deported had a drug offense as their most serious conviction And you can see the numbers have gone up. They started tapered down and 2013 which we have Slightly different set of data shows a decrease again, but there really was a ramp up the most common type of conduct was possession and I think what's really striking in this data is that The number of people deported for drug possession increased 43 percent over these five years So not only is this a huge problem. It's a growing problem a quarter of deportations evolved marijuana offenses like Jose's and 34,000 people who were deported had as their most serious conviction a conviction for marijuana possession I Think the data To me is quite shocking is very striking, but it's in no way really captures what's going on There are several issues several reasons why I think this is an issue that the drug reform movement should really take up Not only is it a big and growing problem? It's very much based in the drug war The same laws that say that you can be deported for almost any drug offense If you have a green card in this room, you might think oh, I'm fine. I'm here legally If you have anything other than one conviction for possessing 30 grams of marijuana or less, you are deportable You can be subject to mandatory detention That means you are going to be held without an opportunity for bond until your hearing is over If that conviction involves any element of sale, I've met a woman from Jamaica living the Bronx for 30 years She sold ten dollars worth of crack cocaine to a cop in 1995 an undercover cop She is being facing deportation automatic deportation as an aggravated felon and a drug trafficker They do not take any offense lightly It can be expunged it can be pardoned It doesn't matter if you're a conviction of the drug offense pardon the fences can still get you deported Let's say you want to immigrate you want to become a permanent resident. I interviewed a woman a Canadian graphic designer She's in her mid 40s now when she was 18. She got a conviction for possessing cocaine. She was in their senior year of high school In Canada her record has been sealed. It's over. She's moved on with her life She has a US citizen fiancee the US government will not give her a visa to enter the US as a permanent resident And she says her daughter doesn't understand why she can't go live with this man that she's come to see as her father And you know as this woman said to me this is now a life sentence for two people I love who never did anything is something that I did And 30 years later actually 20 years later. She's still paying the price Which gets me to my third point this is an issue that not only affects the people with the convictions with the records This affects their children their families So many people I met told me that their children after having their parents detain and deported suffered in school They started acting up People end up they lose their breadwinner. They end up on welfare I actually met a man who told me that a green card holder who ended up in the tension for three months because he had to marijuana possession convictions from ten years earlier He told me that his wife had to drop out of school Because he had been locked up and she a US citizen is eligible for welfare benefits when she went to apply They told her she had to sue her husband for child support first Didn't matter that the US government had put in there that he had All he wanted was to be home taking care of his family And I think for those reasons I mean these are reasons that many people have really taken up the drug reform movement that We care about families and communities that we don't think that Entire family should be punished for the action of some of one person and that even that one person should not be punished for the rest of his life If we think that someone should not serve 20 30 years for a drug offense Why should they be exiled? Why should they be permanently separated from their families because deportation for a drug offense is permanent? You will never be allowed to come back and live with your family It doesn't matter how many years have passed doesn't matter what you've done with your life since you can beg Until you're blue in the face the US government will not give you a green card again So those are you know the reasons I think this is the issue that the drug reform movement should take up I hope I persuaded you and I hope that you will want to persuade others and I think Jose when he talks about a new law that we Helped to pass in California Will explain why this law is going to help Jose And why we hope that you will want to pass similar laws in your states Thank you grace Before we go to Jose in a minute, I just want to again recap I think it's important to do this personally because You know a lot of times we come to these events these conferences and it's information overload, right? I mean we've been coming to several workshops seminars Guess a young man, you know events parties that they a notch and man so Again, let's recap right we started off with Marko 70,000 disappeared 6.6 million Through migration displacement and violence unregulated labor a transnational issue every week 260 migrants are flown into Mexico and Eventually many of them get recycled into organized crime in the meantime. Let me ask you guys a Quick question going back to what grace just talked about Silly question who here has family? Everybody Everybody we all have brothers and sisters cousins and aunts mothers and fathers Some have a little bit more of these some have a little bit more of us of those you know This issue is as much about the war on drugs as it is about the losing of family It's as much about us fighting to keep families together right The numbers speak for themselves ladies and gentlemen a quarter of a million Drug offense possession the number is growing 34 34 percent increase According to Human Rights Watch report the author of whom is sitting here before us Yet again, we find an example of how the human experience the migrant immigrant experience is Beed on is displaced This war on drugs is devastating the home they flee to this country only to be yet again Pounded on and beat on by the same war on drugs that we're fighting This is a second time around There is Ways that we can affect change many of those ways. We already know ending the war economic opportunities responsible immigration reform Right our next speaker Is the gentleman who? Comes to us by way of here. First of all, let me just say for the record he abandoned us Californians So I'm just gonna pick out and Jose a little bit for that Where he spent most of his time in San Francisco But is now working here as a legislative staff attorney with Maldiv the Mexican American legal defense and education fund He is leading its national immigration portfolio Currently, he is an immigration policy attorney at the immigrant legal resource center focusing on regulatory advocacy legislative strategy and community education He holds his degrees from Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona That's his bachelor's and his law degree from Baylor University in Waco, Texas Ladies and gentlemen, Jose Magana Salgado from the immigrant legal resource center And Jose is gonna give us a little bit more on this example come on up Jose on in California The drug policy of lines partnered with Human Rights Watch the immigrant legal resource center Maldiv NCLR Chidla couple other organizations and we actually made an attempt at this deferred entry of judgment We tried to put together what we lovingly call a bit of a wraparound where we tried changing the order in Which these proceedings are executed right and I'll let Jose get into the detail describe a little bit Jose What is deferred entry or judgment what we tried to do and put it in the context of how a failed immigration or the lack of immigration reform Contributes to yet again this second pounding of migrants and immigrants Translator so we're gonna use the mic. All right. So my name is Jose Magana Salgado in California is actually very near and dear to my heart And that is because when I first entered the country I entered in California and I entered on a very special visa It's a visa that you get by going up to the border looking both ways and Then running across and so the reason that I do this work is because of my own personal narrative And that is that I am still not technically supposed to be in the country So if you could not tell the federal government where I am I'm very lucky to hold deferred action for childhood arrivals Which basically means that the government is going to deport me, but I'm not at the top of their list Which is kind of nice And so with that background I previously organized at the grassroots level and saw the impact that the criminalization of communities of color had in the immigration context When I first came I was two years old and I will actually be visiting Mexico for the first time in 26 years in December and Ideally they will let me back in so And so people always ask me what it's like to do federal immigration policy, and I want you to picture something I want you to picture a hill and at the bottom of this hill is a very large Boulder and I want you to picture pushing that boulder ever so painfully all the way to the top of the hill and Then watching it roll back down On top of you crushing you I Wish immigration reform was that productive and so Basically what I'm gonna talk about today is kind of the federal immigration framework because you all are hearing a lot of these things And you're probably thinking to yourself. Hey, we should fix the federal system Which we should but in light of an action a lot of those battles have been taken to the state level Of which I'll talk about and give the example of California Now since it's been two decades since we've had major reform We've had so many obstacles being able to bring federal immigration reform Obstacles like a lot of congressional members don't have a reason to vote for reform because their districts are Filled with non people of color not only that but throughout you this entire debate you have this underlying theme of fear of the other and xenophobia and so Immigration is a very volatile issue and when you combine that with issues such as drug issues It becomes even more volatile and as was was said before While everyone in our nation has recognized that we have criminalized individuals in the criminal justice system And we need to reduce that criminalization That Epiphany has not occurred in the immigration contacts and as grace so accurately depicted the consequences of that are very very serious so in light of that and in light of the serious consequences of The federal system we have turned to the state level and so before I move from the federal system I'm sure some of you have heard that the Bureau of Prisons is or has released about 6,000 individuals Based on an assessment that they're not a threat to public safety and as a result of the U.S. Sentencing Commission's recommendations 2,000 of those people were either Undocumented or lawful permanent residents mostly with drug convictions Virtually all of them have or will be deported So even though they've served their sentence even though a judge has says that they're not a threat to public safety Because our immigration system essentially double punishes people Once through the criminal justice system and second through the immigration system We have communities of color particularly immigrants being devastated So in light of this many organizations reshifted their focus they said you know what we're gonna do we're gonna look at the state level and we're gonna see what we can do there and Based on grassroots activity and the work of great nonprofits such as human right watch and I LRC in California We have assessed and had certain victories. So in California We have things like the trust act where it makes it harder for localities to cooperate with federal law enforcement In order to preserve that trust between the community and local police We have things like providing professional licenses to undocumented individuals the California Dream Act and other laws that help immigrants while the federal reform efforts stall and in the context of California The concept of this deferred entry of judgment is something that we took a look at and helped pass a law Two laws, I'm gonna talk about two laws today one which was unfortunately vetoed and one that wasn't So basically what you need to know about? expungements is as follows our Immigration system does not care if your conviction has been expunged Expungement only helps in one small circumstance, and that's when there was an expungement for a legal cause There was a legal error and so in all these situations where you have an expungement like Jose, it doesn't matter so what California did is What a lot of the NGOs did is they proposed this law that basically said hey if you get charged with a drug offense We're gonna let you plead not guilty complete the treatment program And then have the charges dismissed and that way there is no conviction for the purposes of state or the federal government The current system is you get charged you plead guilty You complete the treatment program and then you get the charges dismissed and that small distinction Whether you plead guilty even though everything else was identical makes a world of difference Unfortunately that piece of legislation which was AB 1351 was vetoed by the governor, which is something we're not Yeah, yeah boo boo him. Yeah But we did get a small victory in AB 1352 and that basically said okay Immigrants who have had this situation happen who plead guilty and now Unknowingly are subject to these harsh immigration consequences We are gonna let you withdraw your plea on the basis of a legal defect and that legal defect is you didn't know that when you Plead guilty you were gonna have these severe immigration Consequences as a result because of that type of legal expungement the federal government will recognize and hopefully not deport those individuals But the problem is because AB 1351 was not enacted We're gonna have people be charged plead guilty due to version programs and then apply for AB 1352 to get the expungement So it would have made sense to have both components move forward so this is a small example of some of the efforts that are happening in California and Some of the efforts that can happen on the state level so many of you have the opportunity to replicate this sort of advocacy and Make a difference while federal immigration reform moves along at an incredibly slow pace So with that being said that's it. I can hope you take this back to your own states And please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you. Jose round of applause for the same All right, so we're actually working with about 15 minutes right so about 15 minutes Keypoint that Jose just brought up. This is one example, and I'm gonna go to questions in a bit one example Of what we can do at the state level to start chipping away at this giant Monster that is immigration the intersection of immigration and drug policy reform the third row of many issues in the political arena Including the drug reform movement Because as I said in my opening statements This is one issue that many within the drug policy reform movement still don't want to touch Still don't understand and still don't care Ladies and gentlemen, and this is something that is a big challenge to us because those of us they're working a criminal justice issue areas You know do exactly that and sometimes feel well. That's my issue great I respect and understand the harm reduction component, but That's not my area and then the vice versa. Well, you know, I do harm reduction and criminal justice Got it part of the issue areas of drug policy reform But that's not my area and then those of us that are strictly advocating on the marijuana front Hell there are some out there as we heard in the in one of the recent panels here at this conference Why should I care about social justice issues? Right. Yeah, I see all the heads moving around So, you know the challenges is there for us as individuals Ultimately if we're committed to ending the war on drugs if we are determined to make an impact You know, we have to look at all areas including these areas that involve the Persecution of people from one country to another and then when we hit them here again, and we can't stand idle We're gonna take some cause some questions I'm gonna go from left to right considering that I have a long history of being on the left Don't tell that to anybody and by the way, I did already have one young brother and somebody else come up to me I'm really interested on this issue want to talk to you more and of course I'm gonna be sending them right back to Jose and our panelists to learn more about it Don't ask me to let go of the mic because I'm not going to so we'll go to the first question I am a microphone hog, and I am a lot bigger than you So I'm Carlos I'm from Arizona and we're running the campaign to regulate marijuana like alcohol there and Arizona's got a big population of Latinos That are active in registering to vote But when it comes time to vote it they don't they represent about 20% of all registered voters in Arizona And about 60% of those don't go out to the polls on election day, and I think this is these two issues Kind of tie up well together and would bring people out if you could just in my mind I was thinking about some messaging if you were to put all this in some talking points I'm not gonna say three or four, but any talking points that you would what would those be and and who how would you advocate to the Latino community in Arizona so Carlos from MPP right Carlos. Yeah, so How do we put all this together into one group of talking points, and I'll leave that up to any of you Grace you want to take a crack at it? So I am not an organizer I'm not so good at the rallying cry But I do think that You know with I mean actually a lot of the drug reforms have been tricky for Immigrants like in Colorado. I had an immigration and criminal defense lawyer tell me he supported marijuana legalization, but Now there is no Safe plea there is nothing that people who arrest for drug offenses can plead to that because before you could plead to 30 grams Or less of marijuana that could help you avoid deportation and now there's nothing because there's no criminal offense Simply to that said, you know fewer people who are arrested fewer people who are entering the system fewer people who are On notice to immigration authorities, you know, I think that that pipeline can really be affected by by decriminalizing and legalizing drug offenses so, you know, I think that it's It's definitely a little bit of a leap to kind of step beyond like okay Let's legalize this one drug or regulate this one drug to families, but To me that's at the heart that so many people get that You know when I when I talk to my mother who isn't really interested in a lot of the issues that I'm interested in But if I say can you believe this mother is gonna get deported because she got you know Arrested for pot and then the ice found out about her. I mean that that sounds awful, you know And I think that there is a tendency in the mainstream immigrant rights movement Not to want to talk about the people who do get arrested for drug offenses or any offenses because They keep being told that they're criminals for entering their country Illegally and so the response is we are not criminals But then that ends up excluding people who actually do have criminal records so I think you know part of it is have is a longer-term conversation with Immigration reform advocates, you know, how do they include people who have records as well But also just bringing it back to you know, let's let's not just talk about I mean, that's why for me Also human rights. You know the right to family unity is So basic it's not abstract because we all have families You know, we all can imagine what it'd be like to be told by a government that you can't live with your family I mean I cannot think of Me to me that is a truly horrendous government action take so, you know, I That's that's the goal for me, you know to keep bringing a lot of these discussions around. Oh, what will we do to regulate a drug? You know, how will it actually impact families? How will impact children? How will impact? I mean in California, you know, when we worked on this law, we went around telling people over and over 50% of children in California have at least one foreign-born parent I mean, this is not just about the people who are arrested This is about what's going to happen to their families and probably nor is it exclusive to California in terms of having one foreign-born family member I imagine that there's some truth to that in places like Addison and others and we can certainly work with you on some of the language that we came up with in terms of the message Messaging on the issue but key to what grace just brought up. I think Involving those groups most affected is really key to this because it allows buy-in as well But I can give us your name and where you're from Capri some from New Haven, Connecticut and New Haven is looking to implement hopefully in 2016 the lead initiative and I wanted to know how lead as it the model is currently implemented Supporting immigrants around this issue and if not, that's good for me to know so I can advocate around addressing that when I go back home and the other question is This also applies for under the age of 18 minors I imagine They're included in that statistic of 34,000 more complicated juvenile offenses don't count as conviction the same way, but they can still the craziness where immigration even conduct can count like Anyway, I'm not gonna get into the weeds. That's so easy for me to get into the weeds, but I'm not actually familiar with the the lead initiative Can you tell me a little bit about that for the audience actually the one of the one of the cool things about Being at this conference is that we can draw on experts that are sitting in the audience So one of my colleagues here Who who abandoned DPA who's still a little sore about that? But Monica come on up here Monica all who is one of our resident experts on lead and a public defender or prosecutor public defender And in New Mexico actually can speak to the issue of lead Hi, thanks. Um, so with lead I can speak to it in Santa Fe specifically in New Mexico Immigration it's actually a good tool for this sort of thing because well Santa Fe is already the officers. They're not asking for Papers for example So somebody could be undocumented and be in lead and there wouldn't be immigration consequences because they're not involved in the criminal Justice system as far as Seattle is concerned. I know that there was something written into their protocols that stated that they weren't going to There wasn't going to be immigration Consequences for people that are involved with lead, but I'm not sure how many participants that they have that actually would have That would be impacted by that What does lead stand for so it stands for a law enforcement assisted diversion And it's where police actually can divert low-level drug offenders from incarceration Into services some say it's course treatment I would probably agree with that to a certain extent, but it's not you're not filtered into the criminal justice system There's no record. There's no nothing There's not even an arrest record if they're doing it right, but it would need to be written into the protocol so that all the Actors at the table would then be on board with it Can I just add something to that? Yeah So I just want to say that I think lead is really exciting and I exactly for the reasons Monica stated One thing that happened during the course of our debate and I think might have been a factor in the governor's veto of 1351 is he said well if someone doesn't have the threat of an immediate conviction Like they haven't already pleaded guilty than what you know, is there a sufficient incentive to complete the program? And I think there's like anyone who's interested in lead anyone is interested in non-coercive treatment We all need to be Educating people like the governor on why it can still work actually and I'm glad you bring that up I'm gonna come right back to you brother. We are either one together I'm actually gonna draw on the expertise of somebody else Our DPA state director in California this concept this idea that you need the hammer I know this is one of your favorite topics, Len Why don't you talk to the audience a little bit about why this is just for lack of better description of stupid ass concept? There's there's really nothing else to say There was a great panel yesterday on course treatment, I don't know how many people were there in that panel, okay? Coerced treatment because that's really what the hammer is about and it's this idea that if you don't Threaten someone who may have a drug addiction or may just be a drug user If you don't threaten them with felony and prison time that they then won't seek They won't seek and therefore they won't get drug treatment And so first of all we just have to demythologize that And we've been providing drug treatment substandard drug treatment through the criminal justice system to poor people for you know The last 50 60 years while people of more means can access real evidence-based Gold standard drug treatment through the private system and that's just wrong So I think what what we need to do is In California we recently passed prop 47 and simple drug possession is now a misdemeanor What we're hearing from law enforcement officials, but a lot of people in the public health and the public defender community as well Well, now we can't get people into drug treatment now. We're we are doing a disservice To people who may have drug addiction issues, and I don't think that's true I think Obamacare the ACA provides a tremendous opportunity to provide drug treatment outside of the criminal justice system It's going to take a few years to build it up But we can absolutely do it and we just have to stand back and push back that narrative every single time we hear it And by the way, there's better results are not so you gave me the mic better results are not There is no evidence that coerce treatment gets better results than voluntary treatment So we're really we're violating someone's human rights and not helping them anymore You know what she's right I Did let go of the mic for two people and that's Monica in case I ever need a public defender in New Mexico And Lynn who's actually my boss Oh Just want to make a quick analysis I'm putting context with another focus on the war on drugs Donde las familias están siendo deshumanizadas donde la migración no se va a cabar porque es un país lleno de desigualdad today in Mexico we have a War that dehumanizes people and a war that's not gonna allow immigration to end because there's any inequality Mucha de la sociedad norteamericana o el gobierno lo que no alcanzan saber es que mucha gente que en México Hoy es delincuente hoy está matando los mexicanos en una guerra que el incrustó en nuestro país Va a terminar en cinco en diez años no se equis pero esas personas mexicanas que deshumanizadas van a llegar Nuevamente Estados Unidos así como mata mexicanos van a empezar a matar los norteamericanos and what What he's saying is that a lot of the folks in Mexico who have been swept up and organized crime and are Are living in and difficult conditions as a result of this war Are in fact eventually going to impact People on this side of the border as much as they've impacted their own citizenry at home más allá de un problema de salud de un problema de De tráfico de drogas estamos construyendo un mundo totalmente violento Disgrasado en el discurso De querer atacar una sola planta creando la violencia humana y la transformación en gente desde los diez a quince años de edad Que eran unos ángeles antes de tener estas armas y ser tan violentos como y son Go with that right Can you describe no I know how to try Same for me, too Más allá de verlo como un problema de tráfico de drogas De migración tenemos un problema realmente de fondo de descomposición Humanitaria a los niños que hoy tienen diez años o quince años So more than a problem that is based on drug trafficking and migration We have a huge problem of complete human Decomposition we're seeing kids that are maybe 10 or 15 years Yo conozco amigos míos que eran personas sanas Que hasta en hasta su niñez Podrían soñar con una vida digna y a mucho los han matado por ser sicarios es La única manera de sobrevivir en tanta desigualdad en México para algunos I've had friends that were very healthy people that when they were young they were dreaming of a dignified life and now they've been killed because of being criminals and In Mexico because there's so much inequality sometimes this is the only way to to make a living por un lado tenemos muchos corazones como nosotros que tengo mis familias desaparecidas lastimados y resentidos pero que perdimos a perdonar pero por otro lado tenemos una comunidad totalmente lastimada con un enfoque de violencia para quitarle la vida quemar de gollar a personas Eso es un tema verdaderamente preocupante porque esa violencia se va a trasladar a quien a creo a Estados Unidos So on one side we have many hearts like the heart of my family We have people in our family that have been disappeared and these are hearts that are very hurt by this But we've been able to learn how to forgive But we also have a whole other segment of society that is also hurt by what's happening And what they're doing is beheading people and killing people and these violence is eventually gonna Come to the other side of the border and come to the US Gracias, thank you very much. I actually If I may add something And by the way before we do have plenty of time so we'll be able to take a lot more questions were way We have plenty of time so go ahead if I may add to what just Juan Carlos You said he he he was a migrant himself He's back in Mexico and now he's in the search of four of his brothers who are missing who have been disappeared and I We're calling we're trying to organize or we are organizing not trying a caravan for next year right before on gas and We want to do this because we want to make it very clear that we are one regional family and every every day the The conditions under which we are we're living are much more similar and Every day we're becoming more of a family affected by the same issues whether it's in California or whether it's in Guatemala and This war is obviously transnational and so the truth the solution has to be transnational And so there already has to be transnational and that discussion has to be from that same approach so It's gonna be very very Very powerful from Honduras to New York arriving for the on gas in April next year If you want to learn more just let me or let us know to any of my Compañeras that are around here. Would you please raise your hand just to know who's a caravan 2016 for next year Okay, great. Thank you. Mark was up Marco Actually, let me jump in there and take moderator privilege here actually last night a bunch of us went out to the lawn To participate and listen to a speakout where you know this brother and others spoke on this issue of the disappeared and and those who have been impacted on such a personal that one and I got to say you know I was with my friend and colleague Leslie and Eunice and others and You know, I've been navigating these waters of the war on drugs for some time now and you know Yesterday was perhaps one of the most impactful experiences. I I'd listened to and heard and And I've you know, I've been I've been witnessed to some of these devastating effects firsthand I too have lost family to the war on drugs Who have been violently murdered? But I want to bring it back and kind of put it in context and grace the collateral consequences when you have a parent that's removed Right, we know what it's like. Well, maybe many of us might not to lose a loved one you know and Many of us can't even fathom the idea what it is like to this to have one disappeared Or have him violently murdered in many ways that are just Undescribable, but we also have a form of violence here. That's not comparable, but nonetheless impactful and that is through these ridiculous drug laws That results in the separation of families your report has that title in part Can you tell us a little bit more about what your experiences were in terms of all the others affected and how they're affected? I know you've touched on it there, but expand on it a little bit more the collateral consequences of separating families migrant families here in this country So the consequences are many Financial obviously often it's the primary breadwinner who ends up deported Is there a question Okay, there's It's emotional There's especially children, you know, I think all the effects that we You know, I think there've been a fair number of studies on how children are affected when parents are incarcerated I think a lot of times the effects of children when their parents are deported are very similar They don't necessarily understand why their parent has been deported All they know is that they're not there I've had many people tell me they actually came back illegally after being deported because Their daughter got pregnant their son ended up on you know using drugs They're something made them really nervous and worried about what was gonna happen to their kids And all these kids most of them are US citizens the US is stuck with them We can't deport this problem away, and I think people are really not realizing that You know, I think that when when you hear that a non-citizen is being deported for a drug offense I think most people just assume it's oh, there's that foreign drug cartel leader someone who's just not at all a part of our world And it's just not the case. It's It's someone that is very much deeply rooted in this country deeply rooted in their community and in their family and And if we and so the effects of deporting them Multiply on the generations And the Mexican and Salvador and Andorra and the Nicaraguan government is doing nothing once they yes Yeah, and I've so many times. I mean if you want is like if you go to Tijuana, there's heartbreak on every corner just standing there I mean People who have no idea how to survive their kids who grew up in the US Anyone with any tattoo whether it's actually gang affiliate or not is they're terrified I mean, I've met people who are in sweltering heat and they're wearing buttons of shirts, you know Sleeves rolled down so that they can hide all their tattoos. I one guy told me thank God. I never got one on my neck, you know, I mean, it's one thing that's sort of a very telling development a lot of Call centers have sprung up in Mexico because there's so many fluent English speakers who can do customer service at very cheap costs for US companies there It's Yeah, it just keeps going, you know And in some ways, you know the the influx of Central American mothers and children that we've seen in Recent years they're fleeing severe violence in El Salvador Honduras Guatemala Violence that we largely exported. I mean those were Gang members who often grew up in places like LA who we deported to those countries and then Now, you know, we're seeing, you know When you don't address when you think that you can just Incarcerate a problem away or deport a problem away. It's gonna come back to you And I think we're starting to see that in the in the criminal justice context And we really have to acknowledge that in the immigration context as well. Thank you guys question over here First of all to my brothers and sisters in Arizona, Arizona is actually the highest increase in voter registration amongst Latinos More so than California more so than Texas more so than Cali colorado more more so than even Florida and so that Speaks to an increase hopefully but now to convince our Latino brothers and sisters in Arizona to Join marijuana reform is as we're finding out in California Not easy and we definitely have our work cut out for us now question is to the attorneys is is there a way that? You know, you have the story of Jose who thought everything was hunky-dory and 13 years later, you know He's being thrown out. Is there a way to? Go to a drug diversion program and then come back and enter a plea Probably no contest so that you don't have this happen to you and how does that work? How does that work on a national level legislative level local level? so that's exactly what we were trying to do in California was to change a program that required you to plead guilty first and then Have your charges dismissed Changing that to a pre-plea model or you know, you plead not guilty So that you don't end up with a conviction under federal immigration law And I think those of us who are interested in non-coercive diversion programs law enforcement is diversion We should join forces because there are many reasons not just immigration reasons for wanting to see more of that kind of model And I think you know their counties there are drug courts, you know who do non plea I don't know how many to do it. Well, I don't know, you know, I think there's a lot more to learn There's a lot more to research There's a lot more to share and educate with people but I really, you know, I Think that there's a lot of places where our interests and Can overlap not necessarily even you know, because we all have the same direct goals and I think Pre-plea diversion non-coercive diversion is a place where we really should get together and Just briefly speaking on that Once you get deported from this country, it is virtually impossible to come back Period no matter how many programs you do no matter if you're a model citizen Our immigration system has a lot of discretion to decide who it does and does not deport But in the context of drug offenses that discretion essentially evaporates and we've had you know The federal agency in charge with deportation saying, you know, we these people should not be a priority You know, it's a drug conviction from 20 years ago. It serves no purpose to disrupt this family But because Congress tells us we have to go after these people We're going to detain and deport them. So it's an ongoing battle Question on this side. I just Wanted to please the emphasis that it's not what's happening on one side or the other side of the border But that it's a cycle that's continuously Feeding itself on both sides at the same time people who are migrating and fleeing drug war violence in Central America and Mexico And especially people from Central America who have to cross Mexico Being a migrant having the vulnerabilities that being a migrant crossing through a country that is going through a violent conflict As Mexico is places them in specific vulnerable situations They have found many mass graves of migrants who were probably Detained forced to work and then murdered and it's really hard for their families to actually keep track of them because they're going through So they're the most vulnerable people once they get to the United States They have to face all of this and then when they're deported. They are not sent back to their homes in the places They were That they originally came from it's not like the United States government is placing them back there, but they're They're put putting them They're releasing them on this side of the border in places that are also really vulnerable because of drug war violence So it's a cycle that continues to go over and over again So maybe we need to stop talking about the different sides of the border and we need to forget the border I mean we not forget it. We know it's there We know the symbol and the the power that that represents But we need to stop thinking of it as like it the problem starts here stops at the border and then on the other side of the Border, that's another problem We need to think of it something that goes together and my question would be and this is something I've been thinking about during the whole conference is now that we're starting to take down prohibition Little by little. How do we tie the real drug war into the end of prohibition? The drug war that only uses prohibition as an excuse and as a cover-up for a whole lot of other things And how do we tie it up so that they can't find another cover-up to keep attacking our communities? When we take down prohibition Thank you, and that poses a real good question because You know, that's a great question because I can certainly speak to haven't had and I'll go to you guys or anybody here If you want to put up a response There's a lot of you guys here who are issue experts on that area I've definitely had that conversation and debate with my own colleagues is Ending the prohibition of marijuana going to open up the door to other Replacements ie we can say other drugs other issues extortion In fact, I was speaking with somebody at this conference She's not here Who was discussing how there's an increase and I think methamphetamines in Colorado? She is a member of the color one of the Colorado collectives and we'll speak into that issue But let me ask you guys this and you might feel comfortable and responding to this There's clearly a lot of analysis that needs to happen And I think one of the challenges one of the positive things about why we continue to have these conversations is because Every time we have these conversations as We're bringing in new folks into the fold But for some of us who've been battling this issue for months of years it can be frustrating Right or what we're still at this conversation So, you know, it speaks to the challenge of how do we continue to have this and continue to bring people into the fold? But at the same time, how do we? Advance so as to not feel that we're still back stuck on this same issue and my court you Make the argument that we need to have you know, you've been working the issue as a transnational issue, right and Clearly the analysis from Mexico is One that maybe a lot of us born and raised on this side of the border have a hard time Conceptualizing and vice versa. How do we bring together that analysis? Is it an economic one through observations of how NAFTA has contributed to the free flow of of Products, is it one that's rooted in migration? Is it one that's rooted in the corruption of politics? Well, I would have to say that it's As as Amalia you said it's just thinking that we are part of the same community. It's not it's not every day is less of a foreign policy issue and every day it's more of a of a share community As long as we are just fighting at the local level Without pursuing that this local victories Contribute to regional solutions then we are being blind or we're just we will be just seen Partial victories that might Legitimate besides the system to keep oppressing in other ways in other places So we got to be really careful when we think about local victories because it might be The feed for other communities in Mexico for example with the recent legislation or whatever it's happening at the court With marijuana it's very interesting because it almost seems like under the current human rights crisis that Mexico is going through somebody like Like the US has been advising the Mexican government to follow a democratic agenda among which the Regalization of marijuana fits in perfectly in order to Legitimicize other kinds of oppressions that are happening at the same time So thinking transnationally mean means that how my local victory can contribute to other regional victories or or of a regional language off All right, so let me let me put this out there, right again taking moderator privilege here considering that this Gathering here this week 1415 hundred people from all over the world Is perhaps the premier if not the premier right Daniel? reform drug policy reform gathering in the world Considering that we are in the belly of the beast of the consumer nation Where the causes of this devastating war on drugs is being generated both economically politically? consumerism should this organization then take more Direct steps and leading reform at this level the immigration level at because look let's be honest One panel on the first panel. I think we've ever had exclusively on this issue Right. I mean what I'm hearing people describe here not the first panel Okay, but okay, but but but but Right, we've been working on it But the point I'm getting at is the reason I was thinking in terms of the first panel specifically looking at ways that we're trying to change immigration policies here locally and And in that regard so I guess what I'm trying to say is you know, can we come out of here? and look you guys have the power of the Review forms right Charlotte everybody has a review form here. This says session evaluation You know, there's nothing stopping you from saying look You know what I heard today is X Y and Z and what we need to do is to ensure that this organization takes greater steps More bigger steps and ensuring that this conversation continues to develop analysis that this organization Takes direction and leadership and ensuring that this issue is taken on a transnational level and That we affect change and that might very well include the time for the reform movement to start taking positions And no longer treat this issue as a third-rail issue. We're afraid Maybe it's time that this organization started looking towards its other partners who are afraid and even fucking anti-immigrant and Say join the party because the majority of us here Are not anti-immigrant The majority of us here are not a two-issue system. I had one question here, his brother right here And we'll go one two three come back to you guys. So my question for you is How can we eventually get to federal reform and possibly get to a point where we can offer? Clemency to people have been exported and get the possibility that may be coming back Is that something that might be possible in the future later down the road Jose? So I think that's a great question actually in the last major immigration reform bill There was a provision that would have allowed a certain number of previously deported individuals to come back but in that bill the Grounds for deportation were also expanded again. The problem is once you criminalize someone It's it's very hard for you to take away those offenses And so I think of the conversation that we need to have with our allies is hey You know, it's not enough that you're you know legalizing the 11 million people in the nation you have to Scale back the criminalization of immigrants in existing law And I think a really great way to do that and to move those efforts forward And that touches on a previous question is to build a large coalition of different interested parties Whether you're in this for the economic benefits or you know your moral beliefs or you work with ban the box And you want less people to have convictions, so that's not as big of a problem I read an article about I think it was a very very white town in Vermont And they were having lots of heroin overdoses and the sheriff was like We got to get these people treatment like we can't lock them up it's like Yes, very and so I think maybe looping welcoming I'm being like welcome. We've been here for the last 20 years But whatever it takes to get you here. We're winding down. We're down to about nine minutes, Charlie I just had an epiphany. I feel like a fucking talk show host. I Don't know if that's a good thing We're about nine minutes. Let's stick to the question, please I know we have a lot to say but just let's do the question. I'm from India It's really wonderful to hear this. I have two questions one is, you know, I read a report a few years ago issued by very prominent drug policy reform and human rights oriented organization which talked about how Amsterdam had for some time this policy where someone who was caught with drugs at the airport Was immediately deported and wasn't processed in the criminal justice system and that was sort of put out as a Good practice as sort of reducing the excesses and a slightly more proportionate response to drugs as opposed to criminalizations now, you know hearing all of you I'm just wondering whether that indeed is good practice considering the very serious implications of deportation Thank you. Hold that thought so is Deporting people immediately that the time you catch them at the airport in other words pick them up put them back on the plane Send them back home. Is that an alternative? Let's try and get a question one more maybe two more and we'll go back to the panel's for closing statements and answer The we know it's a big step for a lot of groups that are working on specific policies to move and to begin to integrate Immigration with the drug policy and that would that's what this panel is all about But if we can't explain what we're facing to ourselves, and we can't explain it really very well to anybody else Unless we do see that big picture the big picture can appear overwhelming But in that sense the question is or rather a statement how to what degree can we integrate? And we have to integrate foreign policy as well as long as we're funding the Exportation of these drug wars now we find that even more so than any time in the past The reason people are coming from the Northern Triangle from Central America and because it's more Central American than Mexican Immigration now is violence. It was always poverty and now it's violence And much of that is caused by the imposition of the drug war model The drug war there has always been and here and there whether it's jail Whether it's whether it's the violence of a militarization of our countries I'm from Mexico is a question of social control That's what it is and I just and and one of the things that Juan Carlos said that didn't get translated is we are building a violent world cloaked in the discourse of attacking a plant Okay, one more question anybody out there one more question We got about five minutes to go and we'll go to anybody who wants to make I know I said to you There's three questions. I'll take the last three and that's it Hi So I was something that Jose said when you said that folks are being deported that the government are saying that are not a priority Made me think about the detention bed quota right now There's 34,000 the quota is with the detention centers need to hold 34,000 people Every single day right and we have folks like the Corrections Corporation of America We're like literally profiting off the suffering of immigrant families and I'm wondering To what degrees you think those things are related and to what degree you think that we Can or cannot tackle? Drug deportations without tackling the privatization and profiting off of immigrant suffering. So the questions are getting bigger I'm gonna take the last two. I'm sorry if we don't get to all the answers And then I'm a turn over you guys for closing statements and answers as you see fit That's two questions So I'm an American born Puerto Rican and so I think we have a particularly interesting role to play in the immigration debate But I'm also on the board of the Minority Canvas Business Association So I'm wondering what policies y'all think we should be insisting on As a burgeoning industry comes out and as we push more legalization forward in order to make sure the communities of color are benefiting from legalization Great question. How do we get the benefits and then the last question Karen? My question is I have a lot of friends who are Latino, so they obviously know a lot more about their community than I do and from my understanding of it is that Immigration is at the forefront of their concerns not so much the drug war It's almost like very anti-drugs like you know like fine like we don't want you smoking We don't want you doing this like very very seriously against like the whole drug movement So how would you suggest presenting like the drug war in this I guess the immigration frame? To show that these things are actually very closely tied together and that one really affects the other one so why don't We take one question each Closing statements And we'll say thank you. So I'm gonna speak to all of those questions and in kind of a theme I'm gonna give a thematic answer and that is how do we go about making systematic change and I think the answer is twofold the answer is love and Inform and what I mean by love is I have a very dear friend of mine. Her name is Gabby Pacheco She is an immigrant advocate She's not supposed to be in the country either and she reaches out to all sorts of constituencies and tries to understand them She tried to hug and cool her and and cool her refused to hug her on national TV She was doing legislative visits one time on the hill and she ran into an anti-immigrant group doing visits on the opposite side And after about like half an hour of talking and she was like, you know, I'm undocumented I'm not supposed to be here and they said well, no, no, no We don't want to deport you Gabby. We want to deport the bad immigrants And I think sharing your narrative and connecting and explaining is very helpful which is what a lot of the dreamers did in getting their narrative to the forefront and The reason we have so many of these problems is people do not understand how our immigration system works people do not understand that our federal government is Detaining people because Congress said you have to detain X number of people Regardless of what they did if we had a lot like that in the criminal justice system where they said you have to keep 34,000 people in prison Regardless of the severity of their crime. So if you don't have enough serious people you go down to the people who are littering that's what we have in our immigration system and Explaining those nuances that there is no line that these consequences are devastating is the first step to bringing about systematic change We're down to about Two minutes. We're down to about two minutes. So maybe you guys can spare a minute and give me ten seconds to say Thank you. Goodbye. And right now is the best time to start filling these out ladies and gentlemen Make sure you will put in there how how good and handsome the moderator was all right. I'll turn it over to you Grace I don't know. I think I would just really concur with everything Jose said and you know working from a human rights perspective We actually have a new policy or newish policy that we came out with in the last year calling for the decriminalization of Drugs for personal use and possession for personal use and it came out of all our research on how the harms of the drug war have affected with violence with disproportionate, you know racial impact in the US criminal justice system in abusive practices and rehabilitation centers around the world And I think when we To me, that's the core that should unite all of us. It's about the inherent dignity of any human being no matter What the fence was, you know What their immigration status is what country they live in now? And I think if we can keep that at our focus and I think we'll find that we have a lot in common and Marco closes out and before you run out. I want to make one last quick statement Marco Yes, well agree with with Jose by saying that it's all about family and love behind both criminalization violence and immigration and definitely try not to accept that others go through something that you wouldn't want to go through and Don't forget that Mexicans are grown in the US and maybe we will create an immigration bill And Now but but what I what I truly want to say is that I've heard in this in this conference more more than once That right now after some local victories around marijuana now instead of buying from from your Your color friend or relative now you're buying from a white dispensary and so that that it's why Local pieces of legislation have to address the rest of the issues of inequality and racism in this country and in the region Otherwise, it's not we're gonna be here in three years having another discussion about a new trend But but the systemic problem will stay there. So That it that it's why from being hyper specialist That's how we had to advance as progressive thinking now We have to go to a moment where we we consider understand the different Dimensions of the of the same problem and ladies and gentlemen, that is a great way to end this with on that note I do want to encourage you guys. This is your reform conference. This is your movement You know, take a step forward demand that we expand these type of workshops have intermediate have Introductory have advanced conversations and discussions where we do take action steps and on that note on behalf of the drug policy Alliance Everybody who is here. I want to thank you very much for not only being at this conference But joining us here today and my name is Armando with Inyo and I want to thank Marco Grace Jose and thank you all for being here and I've always wanted to do this. I'm out