 Welcome to the non-profit show. We're so glad you're here. This week has been the non-profit Power Week and we are so thrilled to have Fundraising Academy with National University supporting us this week and being here each and every single day. Today we have Jack Alotto, Fundraising Academy Trainer. And I'm gonna say like, you know, CFRE Wiz because he does so much work in the CFRE space to help individuals from all communities to really earn this certification, this designation and to advance their career. So again, Jack, welcome, thrilled to have you here. This whole week we've had, you know, amazing conversations, in-depth conversations about the cause selling education model with your colleagues. So you're here to wrap up the week. We always do Friday or Friday as, you know, to ask an answer. And we are gonna do a little bit of that as well. So thank you to Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Non-profit Academy. We did Rochambeau, you know, and I won. So here I am, Jack. I'm Jarrett Ransom, your non-profit nerd CEO of the Raven Group. I just so adore having these conversations. Enjoy having them with you, Jack and with so many other of our amazing experts here in this non-profit space. But, you know, we couldn't be doing this if it weren't for our amazing, loyal, dedicated, generous sponsors, as well as they've become our friends. So thank you to Fundraising Academy at National University, also to Bloomerang, your part-time controller, American Non-profit Academy, non-profit thought leader, staffing boutique, non-profit nerd, as well as non-profit tech talk. So I like to say that these companies, their mission is really your mission because they wanna help you accelerate your mission and do more good around your community. So check them out. I don't think that you will be disappointed. So with the help of our sponsors and as well of all of our expert guests, we have been so fortunate to produce over 835 episodes and you can find us on the app so you can download that app now. You can also stream us on broadcast and also listen to us on podcast. So, you know, Jack, I was talking to Muhe, who's doing this again, you know, our international traveler, but really just traveler in general. And I said, you know, you could be listened to the show while you're riding on your motorcycle across the nation. So they're really good stuff here. But Jack Alotto, I wanna welcome you back again, to CFRE and also Fundraising Academy Trainer at National University. How are you? I'm great, happy, almost at midpoint of summer. How exciting, love the summer. Yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself. I know you've been on with us before, but just in case this is the first time people are hearing you on today's episode, tell us a little bit about yourself. So first off, as you mentioned, I am a trainer at National University's Fundraising Academy. I love that organization. I love the model we use. It's such a great model. I know we're gonna get into some Q and A about that. I also am happy that I run four CFRE study groups that are free. Next one starts September 16th and anyone could join that group. It's a credential that I believe in. And of course, we do encourage people of color and women especially to join that group, get that credential. We're very excited about what the work we're doing with that. And then, just a guy who likes to travel as well, I'm looking forward to a trip to Morocco. Ooh, fun! August, yeah, I'm gonna be going alone. I couldn't get any of my friends to join me. And so, I'm sorry, I should have asked you. It's pretty hot, my good friend, she said to me, it's too hot in Morocco in August. I said, who cares? It's still Morocco, right? It's still Morocco, yes. But I'm excited about that. I'm excited to see all that growth that's happening in our industry. Just good things are happening. Yeah, really good things. Well, thanks for sharing a little bit about yourself. And again, Jack is not new to us. He's been with us on several different other episodes and he really does know this craft and really excited to have you. So thanks for sharing about yourself. So this week has been non-profit Power Week. And again, I know that we have a lot of our viewers live that have joined us other days this week. So welcome back, I'm glad that you're here. So the cause selling education model, I added education in there, but that's, you know, it's definitely education model. Tell us a little bit briefly. Now we've gone through, you know, of course, the three phases, the eight steps, but if you would tell us just a little bit, Jack, in this moment, like, how does this really support the fundraising methods, the strategies and everything that you're teaching? Yeah, you know, when I think about cause selling, this question that you just gave me causes me to reflect on the first time the very first time I encountered the cause selling cycle. And what was interesting to me, I was at National University maybe seven or eight years ago, it was the first time I met Tony Bell. It was the very first time I met him and Pearl. So I remember as I was sitting through the training on cause selling, a light bulb went off in my head, and what that light bulb said to me that if I pay attention to each of these modules as I progress through this eight module cycle, when I get to the ask, it's gonna be easy. Right. If I really focus as this whole week, focusing on each of those modules that you guys have presented at the nonprofit show, when you get to that last section, the ask, that's gonna come naturally. You're gonna be able to close that gift. I love that. And you're right, like it really does seem natural. So yesterday we had on Hannah and she did talk about phase three, the ask and stewardship. And you're right, like all of your colleagues throughout this week have said, when you work the model, when you work the cycle or the lifesaver, right? We've referred to it as the lifesaver. When it comes to that ask, your donor's prepared, you're prepared, and it's really not a shock. So on the flip side, my friend, of all the eight steps in the cause selling model, which is the hardest? Now I didn't say which do you find is the hardest. Yeah. Yeah, I don't. So I think if you ask the group of people in the fundraising professional, which is the hardest, they're gonna say the ask. Okay. The ask is the hardest. But I say, like I just said, if you follow that cause selling steps and really focused on what needs to take place during each of those steps, for example, like need discovery, listening and asking open-ended questions or in presentation, understanding what presentation style you're gonna bring to this that works best with that prospect or even handling objections. All of those things, if you figure out how to handle those objections and answer them, then when you get to the ask, which is really a short part of this cycle, you are gonna be able to close that gift and that is gonna be the easiest. What I think people do that fail the most at is stewardship. They short change the time they spend in stewardship. Solicitation is not the end. Stewardship is not the end either because you're just preparing your donor for the next ask. But here is where they neglect to thank the donor to talk about impact and then to talk about the ways that this donor can become more involved with the organization. And that's the step that I think is most short changed. Is it the hardest? Not at all. Is the ask the hardest? Not at all. So I'm not sure for me, there is a really hard step, but I think if you ask the general population of fundraisers, they would say asking. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, Hannah was so vulnerable was sharing with us yesterday that she used to get really nervous, filled with anxiety, stressed out. I so appreciate that because I have been there. I think we've all been there, right? Oh yeah. You know, and still getting there. So I really appreciate your answer on that. Well, let's talk about overcoming donor rejection because that's big piece of the ask. So talk to us about this, Jack. You've got a lot of experience. You coach people on this. How do you overcome donor rejection? And what is the first? First off, Sharon, I've never been rejected. That's a big fat block. Okay. He wouldn't say you asked a lot of friends to Morocco and they all said no. That's right. I did tell you that every one of my friends, I've gotten rejection many times on many different levels for many, many different things, including asking for gifts. But here is what I say. You cannot take this personally. It is not about, it presented your program, your presentation, your need discovery, et cetera, but it's not personally. So that's number one. Don't take it personally. Number two, broaden your definition of success. The fact that you've gotten to this stage in this cost selling cycle where you are about to do a solicitation, you're gonna make an ask, that is successful. Each step of the way you have achieved something that is really important in towards closing that gift. Thirdly, attract more donors than you need. I think sometimes as fundraisers, we put all of our eggs into this one basket, okay? Here's the fourth thing. We are not alone in getting rejections. You mentioned Hannah Berger yesterday. She's been rejected. I've been rejected. Jared Ransom, I got rejected many times, but you've been rejected, yes, even you. And then forgive yourself. Forgive yourself. We make mistakes. Engage, I'm a big positive affirmations. Engage in self, positive self talk. Tell yourself what you did right. Refuse to give up. And I think what is really important is to look back in this cycle and see where maybe did I short change the cycle? Did I do enough need discovery? Did I ask enough open-ended questions? Did I understand what the donor was interested in getting for themselves? So all of those things are really important. Whenever you think you fail, which I always say there's no such word as failure in my vocabulary, you just haven't succeeded yet. So I believe that if you look back on your presentation, the need discovery, your solicitation, the stewardship you've done and figure out what kind of maybe you missed. Yeah. You know, I love that you said, and I wrote it down, to broaden your definition of success. Thank you. I'm going to take that with me for the rest of my life. I know because that's just gonna click right in there. And donor rejection, it will happen, right? Like it's part of the process. It really is part of the process, but you learn through every single step of the way. And I think, you know, as we look at this, when we talk about success, there's so much success, right? And if we're certainly broadening our definition of success takes us to this question. What's the typical ask success rate using the cause selling cycle? This is fascinating question. Yeah. And here again, I don't have a great answer for that. I am not aware of any studies that say, you know, if you, the cost selling fundraiser has a 60% success rate or a 90% retention rate, but what I really do believe is that if you understand the basic tenants of cause selling and you look at each of those modules and you say to yourself, what tools are they giving me in each of these modules that I can bring to this perspective donor? So for example, in a presentation, maybe it's memorizing your presentation and doing it and rehearsing it and being proficient at it, that is really gonna help you be successful. So as for me saying that, you know, we have a 60% success rate, and honestly, Jared, this is a great study that we should recommend to the Fundraising Academy to do what is the success rate or at least what is the opinion of people who use this model in terms of their success rate. So I really don't have a great answer for that. I can't say that it's 90%. I think it's very high because I wouldn't be here talking about it if I didn't believe in the cause selling cycle as a way to get to a close of a gift. So I'll leave it there. Well, you know, so in your career, Jack, you haven't always used the cause selling model, right? Like I've not always used it, Julia's not used it, Tony's not, and the four of us, I know we've talked about it. We have said like, we wish we had it 20 years ago when we started, when I started in this career, Julia would say a different timeframe, but that's okay. And so really looking at, now that we have this in a codified, succinct, strategic manner, right? Like, and we're taking the time in each one of these steps. Again, like going through it, you're right. We might not have like a statistical data point to reference here, but I guarantee you that it, it is higher now than not using it. Yeah, you know, there's some very beautiful and unique strategies in the cause selling cycle that I haven't seen in any of the other cause selling cycles. One of those is overcoming objections. I haven't seen that in, maybe I'm missing something and I apologize to anyone who says, wait a minute, there's this model that talks about overcoming objections, not to the extent that cause selling does. And, you know, having been armed with overcoming objectives, if I had had that in my earlier career, how to do that, I would have had a way higher success rate in closing gifts. Yeah, I agree. Well, I would love to hear from those of you that are using the model, what do you believe has been your success rate? Would love to hear from you, absolutely. And in fact, we might actually get you on the show to talk about it. I think that would be super cool. Well, let's talk about need discovery because that is also in the model. How do you increase need discovery, Jack? To me, you know, I think the need discovery takes the most time in the cause selling cycle. And that's where we are sitting down with our prospects and we are asking them open-ended questions. We are building that relationship with them based on asking them questions, responding to their question, getting to know them better, et cetera. I think that if you ask open-ended questions and listen, you know, one of the things I love that we say in the cause selling model, you don't talk your way into a gift, you listen your way into a gift. And that is really an important skill that I see in need discovery. Listening, asking open-ended questions and paying really close attention to the verbal and non-verbal clues that we are getting from that prospective donor. You know, great insight there. And I'm curious, this is a curveball question, how long does each step or each phase take? Because I heard you say that the need discovery often requires a little extra time. So what does that mean for the other pieces? Yeah, that's a great question. And again, I'm sorry, I don't have a really succinct, great answer. I think the solicitation is the smallest part. I think presentation takes a while. I think need discovery takes a while. Sir, I'm working backwards. Prospecting, totally, you know, prospecting for donors, it takes a very long time because we're out there looking, we're looking in our customer relation management system or database. We're talking to our board members, we're asking them about their circle of influence, their network, all of those things take a lot of time. Need discovery takes a lot of time. Maybe approach takes less time than need discovery. I mean, these are just my guesses based on my using the model. Stewardship, it takes a while. I would think that in similar to other fundraising cycles, need discovery cultivation takes a while. It's something that takes a while for us to complete. Well, I mean, it was ongoing, right? Isn't stewardship ongoing? Yeah, and it is a curveball, really, because any donor cycle, right? Like they're all different. They all vary because guess what? We vary, right? Like people are interest, our capacity to give, our readiness to give. So it was a curveball question, but just like that's right. You know, I was really curious, like what does that look like and how has that been been defined? Okay, so you've talked about the model. Your colleagues have talked about the model this week. And I continue to learn and I just really love, you know, absorbing all the information. So when we talk about proficiency, how long, Jack, do you think it takes for one to become proficient with the cost-selling cycle? Again, it's up to the individual. But here are some hacks and tips I think help you become proficient. One is continually review the cost-selling cycle. Understand what each model does and tries to accomplish in this cost-selling journey. And when you understand each of those, it will get, you will get to the ask faster. The other thing that I like to tell people is understand the great tools that the cost-selling cycle gives you. Let's go back to prospecting for a minute. Prospecting in the cost-selling cycle says your board members have a responsibility to share their network with you, to help you qualify donors. Those are tools that the cost-selling cycle gives you to be successful at prospecting. When I think of, I love this concept of donation signals. Throughout the cost-selling cycle, donors will give you signals that they are with you. Let me give you an example. If I'm sitting down with you in presentation and I'm explaining to you all the parts of our homelessness project as it relates to our organization and you lean forward to me and say, you know, Jack, ending homelessness in our community is really an important thing in my mind for us to accomplish. That's a donation signal. That means that Jared is with me. I brought her along and she is with me. That may be the time to ask for a gift or to explore more your desire to end homelessness, to really drill down into that value that my organization shares with Jared. And I love those tools. And I think when you wanna really become proficient at the cost-selling cycle, review each of those modules as you progress down that journey of cost-selling and look for those tools that we give you in that cost-selling cycle. Whether it's donor signals or talking to board members about their network or getting your own presentation style, you know, whether it's memorized or you are so proficient that you could just do it depending on what your donor is. During needs discovery, if you look at all of those tools, when you get to presentation, you're gonna know the presentation style to do with that individual prospect. Jack, what's your preferred style? I memorize, I'm a memorized guy, but what I try not to do is sound like a robot giving a presentation. Yeah. So I try to, you know, I'm a guy who takes notes. I'm a guy who brings notes. I don't think it's wrong to bring notes to a presentation. I think it just shows that you really wanna do a really good job with that prospective donor. And Tony mentioned bringing props, you know, I shared and I know this is no surprise. I'm a big impromptu person. I also like to compliment it with bullet points, you know? So for me, it's like, okay, what are the tools I need to bring to feel ready? You know, to feel prepared, to have that confidence. Speaking of tools, and it comes to the proficiency with the model, I wanna move us into the portal because the portal has so many more tools. And as we wrap up this Power Week, which has been, dare I say powerful, Jack. Yes. Yeah, the online.fundraising-academy.org for those of you that are tuning in to us and on an audible kind of a platform, check this out. There are so many good resources there. You know, you mentioned prospecting. I love the Madden test. That's an acronym for, you know, a piece of the puzzle here. A tool. It's a great tool. I love it. I love it. You can find it in the portal. You talk about, you know, donor signals that that's in the portal. There's so many additional tips and tricks and techniques. And you said hacks earlier. And I'm like, ooh, a good Jack hack. That sounds good. I think you need to, I think you need to coin that, my friend. Yeah, you know, I'm sorry to interrupt. You know, I taught a class at a local foundation a couple of weeks ago in my CFRE. I sell every single person who comes into my visual field to register at mylearningportal.org. Continuing education credits at CFRE. Free, they're free. You know, blogs, videos, webinars. You got everything. And it's free guys. If you are planning for a CFRE or you already have your CFRE, this is the place to be. Absolutely the place to be. You can go there. Your board members can go there. Your other volunteers can go there. So share this far and wide because there's so much information all free here at the portal. Jack, you mentioned, and again, I know you do the CFRE coaching training and they're also free, right? It's like free Friday. Tell us again. I think there's a September date you tossed out. Yeah, our next, the last one of the year will be September 16th. There are four consecutive Saturdays, three. And I gotta tell you, Jared, we haven't really promoted it. I've already got 23 students signed up for that, for that study group. My summer, spring summer group had 99 people and every one of them, every one of those people, here's about that portal, mylearningportal.org. Well, I'm gonna thank you for sharing that. And I know that's different than the portal. So thank you. As we share about more and more free tools, I wanted to bring that up. So again, online.fundraising-academy.org, that is where you can find the portal. Again, thank you, Fundraising Academy at National University, so much good information here. Jack, you are always amazing. And if you had asked me to Morocco, I would have had a really hard time rejecting you. Well, it's still, well, you're welcome to join me. The invitation's now on the table. So again, I love that. Thank you. For those of you watching and listening, Jack Alotto, CFRE, Fundraising Academy Trainer at National University. I'm gonna give you a shout out. I'm gonna ask people to connect with you on LinkedIn because you're so very active there. You share amazing resources, not only from Fundraising Academy, but within the CFRE designation, these study groups that you so generously provide. So please do check Jack out. And this week has been fantastic. As we come to a close, we want to express our gratitude to the entire Fundraising Academy team. Looking at these faces, Jack, yours included, it brings so much joy, so much happiness. So I'm gonna, again, just do a verbal shout out. Thank you to Pearl Hoagland, to Hannah Berger, Jack Alotto, Mohi Kwaja, Safe Travels, my friend, LaShonda Williams, Faith Martin, who helps to bring it all together, and Tony Bell. So thank you for each and every one of you, your dedication to these episodes and conversations today, but really to the sector, because you are doing so much, I'm gonna say to bring access to so many individuals, diversity, equity, inclusion, and access is a big, big piece of Fundraising Academy. So they practice what they preach and they're doing such a fantastic job. So wouldn't be here if it weren't for our sponsors, including Fundraising Academy. Thank you to Jack at National University. Also wanna give a shout out to our besties at Bloomerang, your part-time controller, American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd, as well as Nonprofit Tech Talks. So check these companies out. You know, I'm kind of sad that we're ending, we're ending the power of the week, but I know that we're not going anywhere because again, a representative yourself or other colleagues from National University join us each and every month, actually week, right? Cause we're doing the Fridays together. So very grateful. Jack, what's on your agenda this weekend? This weekend, I may go for a short hike. I've been hiking a lot every day. This morning I hiked, I just did a short one or three and a half mile, but I'm in the desert where it's really hot right now. So I have to do it really early. Yeah, really early. Well, good. I'm excited for you and stay safe for sure. For all of you, stay safe. As we end every episode, we want to remind you as we do each and every day to stay well, so you can do well. Thank you, Jack. We'll see you back here soon.