 Many thanks for tuning in to A24-no illegal news highlights, it's Monday, the first day of the month of April 2019. Tonight discussion Monday we'll be looking at Landrode and tenants relations. Keep it wide to five hours, we'll be speaking to John Wanga and Joakim Omboe. They will help us to understand what you do in no before renting a place and in case of anything, to say what you do in terms of legal formalities. Atwa'i 254 Channel at Morani Hillary is the Twitter handle to use. You can tell us or ask questions that you feel like you need to know what happens. For now we look at the stories making news highlights tonight. A very good Monday evening to you. Dereva Hillary is my name and these are the stories making news highlights. Stakeholders in health research have today held a career open day in a bid to create awareness about opportunities in the sector addressing 200 applicants for an eight-month internship program in Nairobi. Various specialists tackled pertinent matters such as perception about health research and careers in this subject. Abdu Rezaq starts off our broadcast with that story. We are open day, a measure to build capacity in health research organized by KEMRI Welcome Trust in partnership with African Academy of Sciences aims to attract university graduates from multiple disciplines towards health research. According to the African Academy of Sciences Program Deputy Director Dr Alphonsus Neba such initiatives in the continent are aimed at promoting African-led researchers to solve Africa's health problems. The African Academy of Sciences is the only Pan-African Academy of Sciences that deals with promoting science and development on the continent. We have as our vision transformed lives so what we do is we work towards transforming lives on the continent using science mobilizing resources and partnerships and collaborations and other resources that we are able to work with other stakeholders across the continent and globally. We also provide think, think and advisory services or functions in order to shape policies in health and science on the continent. Then thirdly we are an honorific organization so we recognize excellence in science through a number of excellent schemes that we implement. Ideal the program which is having the open day is one of the 11 programs and they cover a wide spectrum of health research fields including bioinformatics and genomics including one health that is those diseases that affect humans and they can cross onto animals and vice versa. We deal with immunology and infection, we deal with malaria elimination and a whole lot of other areas. We have other programs again like the H3Africa. H3Africa is a human hereditary and health in Africa which is looking at the underlying determinants of health genomics so to speak and the environment how all these affect our health and our resilience as human beings. So to speak we have other programs which are solely based on promoting postdoctoral education on the continent so we have about the African Postdoctoral Training Initiative we have what we call ISA RISE, we have what we call FLARE and these are all programs that are providing research opportunities for young and promising early career Africans to pursue research at the highest level on the continent. In other news interior cabinet secretary Fred Mating has ordered the betting control license to oversee the betting firms are in compliance in tax paying to avoid obstruction betting firms of until July fast to pay all their taxes or risk having their license is cancelled machiangi decree the betting craze in the country especially among youth. The Kenya Young Parliamentarianization is inviting the youth and ICT hubs across the country for a competition to develop a mobile application for public participation. This comes amid concerns that a majority of the youth in the country do not take part in public participation forums on legislations due to the nature of these meetings which mostly require physical attendance. Elsewhere Davis Chele Edewa a former procurement officer at the Export Processing Zone EPZ in Athriva Machakos County has been sentenced to six years in jail for in jail or pay 1.5 million shillings fines after he was found guilty of solo seating for a bribe the accused was charged that in August 2016 he demanded for a 1.6 million bribe to influence the award of attender to a contractor Hesbon Gugge Commander who reported the matter to the ESCC. And finally overseas following attacks that occurred last Monday in Dubans Springs field area and foreign nationals living in South Africa African ambassadors in South Africa are set to meet with the minister in the department of international relations and cooperation to express concerns of attacks among the concern of the African ambassador include measures in place by the South African government in protecting lives of African foreigners in the country including their properties and crime related issues. Now you are up to date with Y254 news highlighted about time we moved to our discussion tonight where we are talking about the relation between landlords and tenants and I'll be speaking to John Wanga and Joakim Omboi they will help us to understand what are these things that we need to know before we move to any apartment or residential place Good evening gentlemen It's good to have you here Thank you Today was a false day John, were you full today? I wasn't full anyway because I'm fully aware of this day I was prepared All right Yes All about you Joakim Exactly I was not full and I was very busy All right I was like if anyone is admitted that Kenyatta and they need blood and you are told so and so is in Kenyatta and they need blood people will be like no that's a lie it's a false day and this person maybe ends up in the wrong state Anyway, let's talk about rights of the tenant as well as the rights of the landlord and I want to look at one thing that happens when you rent to a place to stay or to live rather you will have to pay a deposit John and that deposit you are told when your time comes to live this place we will refund you but again we will have to cut a certain amount to cater for ABCD and many other times you are not told which are these things so at the event you want to vacate that particular house you are told we used a certain amount for painting you damaged ABCD and these things at times they do not account now what are my rights as a tenant what should I do now your rights as a tenant ideally before you enter or before you take any possession of a premise you have to get a checklist these one enables you to know the things that are in order in the house and the things are not in order in the house second you have to have a tenant's agreement now this one protects your interest while in the premises before you move out the landlord has to make sure that everything and anything that you found in that premise is in the best order before you render a vacant position of it yes it's by having the tenant's agreement that protects your interest so that at the time you exit the premise the deposit has to be refunded back to you upon meeting the conditions set in the tenant's agreement Joakim I have rented this particular house for say 4 years and at the time I want to live I am told you have to we have to cut a certain amount to cater for painting now the question that bothers many is how much money or what quantifies the amount that you want to cut and then what rate will you use to paint will you use the current market rate of the paint or will you use the one that when I entered that house you had painted say for 5,000 and now you want to paint for 10,000 which will amount maybe to my deposit okay on that one that is exit in principle in tenants we have three areas that is entry number one, number two is stay number three exit when we capture number one that is stay this is where my friend has said it must be a checklist the checklist with the lease goes together the checklist is the history of the house the lease is this the tabulation of the conditions and procedures of the stay that we are going to proceed in that premises so at times comes the exit where maybe you want to leave the house and then issue of maybe how is the house condition and all this the deposit now comes one inflection that we need to know is the notice the lease that you signed there must be an article that states the way you leave the house how you going to leave it in the checklist we have areas that you must as a tenant you must leave the house as you got it that means you must take the responsibility as a tenant to make sure this house the way I got it or the fixing and the painting is the way you got it there is no if that one is not reflected in the tenancy lease then the landlord will take advantage to maybe delay the deposit and bring some excuses that now this amount is going for the painting the fixing for the toilets and kitchen all those our tenants in the country because right now we have 17 million tenants in Kenya and the landlords are 5 million we are just sending a very special message to the tenants in the country before you enter to any premise maybe a residential or a commercial please consult land loss and tenization of Kenya let us go through the checklist or we can advise the lease procedures so that at least you cannot be in a fix in any day in the future Yes Alright John we have seen people being evicted because they have not paid rent say for 3 months or even less for one month you will find some agents are throwing you out now the deposit that I paid what does it cater for what does it say apart from every other thing it's a binding contract between myself and the landlord Yes point number one it's very illegal for a landlord or an agent to evict a tenant or to lock out the tenant in the aforesaid premises actually what happens there are procedures of recovering rent the landlord is supposed to go to the tribunal obtain orders come and leave the distress to the tenant or the landlord is supposed to directly issue instructions to the auctioneer so that this auctioneer comes and collect rent on behalf of the aforesaid landlord but it's totally wrong for an agent or a landlord to lock someone's premise Right Yes however much you stay in the premises without paying in fact if you by any chance find yourself in a fix if you are a tenant Right for example you are a member of our association we shall move to court on your behalf we seek for more time from the court to restrain the landlord from any harassment upon you looking for the said rent Right so the government will not allow the landlord to throw you out of the premise Alright I have seen people being thrown out I've seen other places the roofs being taken off I've seen the doors being closed you are out you can't change you can't do nothing Yes but then the question is the deposit that I paid or this agreement rather for how long can it sustain me what does the law say? Now the law when it comes to the issue of deposit deposit in most residential premises it's normally for one month Right then for business premises it's normally for two months Now you see if you've delayed in paying rent for two months your deposit will not cover up for the two months Right That's why you have the right as a tenant to move to a place where you will be protected from such harassment if you are in a financial strain Right Now Joakim is it right for a landlord to switch off your electricity from the meter just because you have not paid rent? It's very wrong and illegal First power is not for the landlord Right Power is for Kenya power Right Business between the one who is consuming and the owner of the product That's wrong It's not applicable in any law What usually reflect is the notice Right If there is an issue maybe between the landlord and tenant the landlord has to offer or issue a notice Right That there is a defection of this misunderstanding between us in terms of delay of rent or some issues around then the landlord has a right to offer a notice to the tenant that I see this direction we are not going would I seek audience so that we can talk and solve it out That is the procedure but locking out water electricity locking everything that is maybe consumable or beneficial to the tenant it's wrong Right It's very wrong Something I just want to get clear Yes If I have not paid rent for say one month or two months I was out By the time I was coming home my house is locked I can't get in I can't get anything from my house Is it right for them to do that because they do it It's wrong And what you die do in such an event Once you are in such a situation maybe you are outside maybe somewhere coming back your house is locked Yes Okay you have to come to our offices we give legal proceedings or advice on the way forward First we have to seek advice from the court to give us orders to make sure that house is open Number one Once the house is open that is the time we will have arbitration between the landlord and the tenant to understand why if there is a delay people delay rent and the person will not stay outside It's right to have a shelter So the landlord locking out the house means doesn't understand the law So from there we arbitrate then we understand the cause is to have a commitment notice This should be from maybe either parties between us landlords and tenants of Kenya the landlord and the tenant for the tenants to commit that I will be spreading my rent to pay and clear these areas on a period of time And that is given that's legal and very okay in terms of tenants procedures Once the agreement has been done and notice has been signed then the landlord has to follow wait or give more time for the tenant to clear the rent from there things will be just working out Alright We'll be taking a very short break but before then I just want to get this one thing then we go for a break Most of the agreements or the contract they say 21 days after you vacate you'll be given your deposit and if you're vacating you give a notice maybe for one month or say three weeks but I have vacated in good time but my deposit has not been remitted also in good time what should I do John Now in such a case deposit is supposed to be refunded between the time frame of the notice for residential premises the notice is normally 30 days then for business or commercial premises the notice is normally for 60 days Now if in such a case that you've left the premise in the best condition that you found it the landlord is supposed to give you deposit immediately upon rendering vacant position on that particular day there is no any law that provides that deposit is supposed to be given say within 7, 14 or 21 days you are supposed to be given back your deposit immediately you render vacant position of the premise Alright Alright We'll take a very short breather and when we come back we will be looking at the rights of the landlord as well and a few things about the tenant Why 254 Discussion mandate takes a break Don't go too far Why 254 Imagine Many thanks for keeping us company and if you just tuned in this is Discussion Monday Tonight we are talking about Landlord Antenance Relationship I am joined by John Wanga and Joakim Omboy both from Landlords Antenance Association of Kenya We are looking at issues that affect both the landlord and the tenants and before we took that break we had looked at the deposit into depth about it and now we want to look about the responsibilities of our tenant and that of the the landlord as well because there has to be harmony between them because when we go to fighting like we have an issue with my landlord I come to your organization how do you bring harmony between us because I am complaining my landlord has not given me my deposit or the conditions of the building they are not okay and I am afraid for my life if I come to your offices with such an issue how do you bring harmony between the two Now we have a platform as landlords and tenants of Kenya to mediate between the agrived parties if you are a tenant and you have an issue with your landlord you come to our offices then we call the landlord or we do him a demand letter to the office if the landlord or the tenant fails to go by our directions then we move to the court of any jurisdiction to combat the landlord to do that what the agrived party is complaining about Joakim you will find in a scenario you have been into this particular apartment and the landlord has continually kept on increasing the rent from 500 another 1000 next month you hit 3000 what is changing the conditions you came in at that particular time they haven't changed but the rent is increasing how do you deal with such a situation Okay, number one reflection on that rent or increment we have to go back to the lease agreement once we reflect on the lease agreement it appellates the increment of rent systems in place number two there might be a reflection of how much in terms of percentage and the duration of time if you analyze properly our landlords sometimes they mess around you find today increment of 10%, 20 or whatever but if you go deep to the regulations of tenancy law it's supposed to be 10% of the total amount you pay and this should be done once there is tabulation in that lease that after maybe three years I will be doing an increment of 10% on that area now the landlord has to seek authority from the tribunal but now I have a reason to increase rent on this then the tribunal will try to know why because you cannot increase rent the renovations are not done there is nothing that has changed in that house so that one they should do it in a legal way John let's talk about now the landlord and we are speaking of the tenants they have refused to pay and I see from one of the things that you handle you people is about the rent default how do you handle this situation now there is only two way of handling a rent one is by way of auction you issue the tenant with tenant days through a competent and licensed auctioneer upon the expiry of the tenant days the auctioneer will come and take the movable items from this tenant to recover the rent then if the things are levied the auctioneer has to keep them in custody until 14 days expire then from there the auctioneer has to advertise them in any newspaper that's when the auctioneer will go ahead and sell them to recover the rent second if the landlord feels that he has to move through the court to get more channels of getting the aforesaid defaulted rent the landlord will go to the tribunal or any court and he will be issued with orders it's through these orders that now the landlord will give them to the auctioneer the auctioneer will come then do the proclamation of the items that belongs to this tenant was defaulted that's when now the auctioneer have to do their responsibility and recover the rent before I ask a different question you just spoke of the auctioneer now with my property be auctioned according to the market trade or they will just sell it to the satisfaction and the amount they are looking for they can never sell it at the market trade because once you pick an item from the shop its value depreciates immediately you step out with it now with the auctioneer the only thing that they never they never work on a mountain ground they dispose things to get their costs they will not even recover the land lost money but first of all they have to cater for their costs so upon upon issuing notice they just make sure that they dispose to clear their storage then to get their fees that is all they will never do it at the market value Joakim let's talk about poor services and we are talking about the sanitation we speak of the garbage collection and disposal actually and then we talk about the provision of water because it is very important wherever you stay I have moved to this particular apartment and what is a problem disposal of garbage is a problem if I come to your offices what do you do? Okay number one when a tenant comes to our office maybe the complaint is about poor services we must number one thing we must do is to analyze the list to see is this article captured then number two we analyze the responsibilities and the rights between tenants and landlords the number one responsibility of our landlord is to give good services that is security garbage collection clean water and some other information pertaining the neighborhood responsibility over landlord if those services are not offered on our capacity we usually give demand letters pertaining a notice trying to let the landlord understand that he has failed or she has failed to over service to the tenant then immediately we request first steps to be taken so that this tenant because if you pay rent you have to value for your money you must get the best services maybe security water garbage collection and good environment and this must be in the list that's how we handle that Alright as we near to wind up let's talk about property destruction I want to understand this is the part of the landlord John my house has been destroyed by this tenant and the claiming I found it that way and we didn't have pictures as approval evidence that this house was in good condition the only thing that stands as evidence is only the papers but I can see with my eyes my house has been damaged what do I do now there are so many ways that the property can be destroyed one is through maybe the landlord's immoral actions in covering rent iron sheets with door to door or he sends tags to do that whatever that will annoy you to to leave the premise number two there are some tenants who do that intentionally to put the landlord into some losses now the only way if a tenant succumbs to such he should not enter the premises or do anything and report the same then from there he comes to our office we shall now represent that tenant to the court and he shall be compensated he or she shall be compensated in full yes and if it's the landlord and he finds out that the tenant is the one who was responsible for such destruction then the landlord has also got the right channel to go through the court or through us to sue the tenant for the repairs speaking of the same I come home I found my door has been broken into and on enquiry I'm told the landlord through the kiatika they broke into my house and they removed my properties the house is empty but now I'll have to clear the damages the damages that were done on the door or the window or anything in that particular house are they mined to settle or they belong to the landlord first of all they belong to the landlord you just found everything is transpired you did not participate in any way you are in a situation whereby you only there for yourself and in any case they impose it on me how do I go through the case there is no way they can impose it on you first of all they have to prove their case beyond any reasonable doubt they must have witnesses and if the tenant was not there will also have to tell the court the truth if he was not there when this and this happened so a tenant will not just stay there to cut the blame because the tenant has the rights the landlord also has the rights I want to look at this eviction area you want to get this tenant out of your building maybe it's not because they don't pay rent they are okay when it comes to paying but there are other factors that you feel I cannot continue living with this particular person maybe the neighbors are complaining now which are some other things that you people you will consider when someone is being evicted and it goes beyond his rights okay in terms of eviction there are some factors one has to consider maybe the landlord will take just that step maybe he wants to evict a tenant because of defaulting paying rent in many times or maybe as a patient in character wise that one the landlord has a right and that right the landlord has to seek advice from the court that now this is the procedure that you have to apply to evict a tenant by just proving a very practical evidence that now this tenant is causing a lot of nuisance to the compound a lot of noise maybe distracting other properties or maybe criminal records then the landlord has to seek more advice maybe from us as landlord or go to the court to get direction of how is going to evict this tenant and there is a procedure in eviction there is a procedure there is a notice and after observation you have to do a report and then do a notice to evict being permitted by the court of law in this particular scenario I understand the landlord against the tenant and the tenant is his word against everyone else against him as a tenant what has been said is force about me how do I prove my case now as a tenant you have your rights not to be evicted upon by the landlord what happens in such a case we move to the tribunal the one that fights for the rights of the both parties you can seek more time from the court and the court will give you that much time that you want be it 30 90 60 days the court will always give you in case the landlord wants to evict you just because other people have gone up against you yes because once the landlord is restricted from massive eviction the landlord cannot just come and say that I want back in possession of the entire building that is illegal by law alright as we wind up we have seen scenarios of building being brought down here in Nairobi and the tenant just came innocently they were looking for space they rented they have been there for one year and then the building comes down yes now what am I supposed to do because I didn't know the building has been built in a public land or it is not fit for living in what should I do Jokem as a tenant you must have your rights number one right a tenant must exercise is to have that power all that right to ask the landlord to provide some certificates in Inema we have some documents that the landlords have so that they can prove this house is built on a land that is recognized and not something that is maybe on a river land these documents they are there from our counter officers from Inema and the engineers national building authority these things are supposed to be done and the landlord must be in possession once the tenant who is good who is ready maybe serious for tenancy issues as to ask the landlord all the documents then from there we proceed all the tenant proceeds to go through the checklist list then maybe you can decide to stay in that particular premise but imagine this way a young person is just looking for a place to live you move from one building to another looking for a place and then you find wow there's a room here you go inquire you hear the deposit is this much this is getting and that's okay these things is all about information the public is not given enough information to know procedures of tenancy that's why we are here to give our public information that procedure number one what we are supposed to do two what everything so that at least somebody is equipped number one whenever it happens that's a circumstance but be informed and that's why I am giving you one minute to tell us about you and what you do and where can we find you land roads and tenancies of Kenya we are the consultants we are betrayed between land roads and tenancies to make sure there is good neighbourhood understanding of tenancy law and making sure there is security we are found along Moya avenue just directly opposite Meridian hotel Meridian hotel there is a house called southern house third floor you come to our office you will get a very good service in terms of notices, illegal fiction delayed deposit once you register with us as a member we will give you world services and we are just doing these things nationally we have many strategies that we are running out to the public know your neighbour training, orientation of our tenants and even land loads to understand these things of tenancy law the conflict between tenants and land loss in the country that's what we do Joakim, these services I will have to pay for them once you are a member you don't have to pay for them because you want to be a member these are subscription fee which is once once for a year or on a monthly basis and in case I am just a member I have just registered with you and no event has happened to me in insurance company on the event of anything no no no I know you are looking at an angle but we will fund your membership fee actually it cannot happen that way alright many thanks for coming they have been my guest Joakim Mumbui and John Wanga from Land Loads and Tenants association of Kenya now coming up next is why Masha Riki keep it tuned and know who will be their guest tonight I will see you have a good night