 to the first CCC OER webinar for 2020, so first of the decade and first of the year, quite exciting. Today's topic is going to be attributions, authoring, and platforms. What we'll be looking at today is we'll do a quick round of introductions. We'll talk a little bit about CCC OER and then we'll have an introduction to attributions, best practices, and so on, and then we'll have two faculty share their experiences developing OER within two different platforms. We'll look at both press books and LibreText. We'll also have some time for Q&A and we'll have a few announcements of upcoming events. So let's start with the, oh sorry, the speakers we have for today. We have Jenrin Wetzler from Creative Commons and I'm going to let them introduce themselves a little bit. So Jenrin. Okay, hi. Can everyone see and hear me? Yep. Loud and clear. Okay, excellent. Well, thanks so much for having me. I'm really delighted to be here and I'm just going to take a minute to share my screen and give a quick overview. Let's see. So I guess as a... Do you want me to stop sharing? We'll do the actual presentations in a bit. Is this just a quick... Oh, okay. Then that's all I have to share right now. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks. All right, Dave Gillan from Grossmont College. Do you want to say a quick hello? Hello, this is Dave. I'm coming from Grossmont College in San Diego. I'm a counselor and professor. Excellent. Thank you. And Athena, you want to do a quick intro of yourself? I think you might be muted. We had it. There you go. Hi, I'm a professor of English at City College in San Francisco. My name is Athena Kashup and I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for having me. Awesome. Thank you. And we will hear more from the presenters in just a little bit, but I did want to go through a little bit about CCC OER, so the Community College Consortium for OER. Our mission is to expand awareness and access to high quality OER. And we do this by supporting faculty choice and development of resources. We foster regional OER advocacy, and this is all about helping to improve student success. So that is our mission, and these webinars are part of that. CCC OER has members in 16 states, and you can see them all here. And I also wanted to point out two new members that we're very excited to have on board. We have Trinity Valley Community College in Texas, and Butler Community College in Kansas. So if anyone's on the call from those two colleges, if you want to say a quick hello, and if not, I should just mention just as an aside because I was really excited to see Butler Community College on the list. I just took their accessibility course and it was fabulous. So feeling really awesome to have both of these colleges as part of our membership. Last announcement then before we get started. So I hope y'all are aware that we have Open Ed Week coming up in about two weeks, so that is super exciting. There's going to be a lot of really amazing webinars if you have attended in the past. The sheer number of really great opportunities has been amazing, and so we're looking forward to much the same thing this year. If you'd like to participate, and we highly encourage you to submit some projects or webinars or share what you're doing, there's a few links here that you can use so that you can be part of the event. We have some really great things coming up from CCCOER, Open Oregon, California. Different members are putting together some really cool events, and so if you want to get yours on the list as well, please do submit your proposals. Something to look forward to is Liz Yada from CCCOER will be posting daily digest of what's to come, and that'll just help us, I think, focus on what might be events to attend. Oftentimes, there's just so many great things that can be easy to miss out a few. But definitely take a look, and I hope you have a wonderful Open Ed Week. All right. So let's move ahead, and, General, I'm going to stop sharing, and hopefully you can share. I got many windows open. So try to share now. Let's see if that works. And so as we start our first presentation, General, I'm going to let you share your screen and take over from here. I just wanted to let folks know that I will be managing the chat. So if you have questions, please go ahead and put those in the chat, and I'll keep track of them. And then at the end of General's presentation, I will pose those questions so we can all consolidate at the end. So they will be answered, and I will keep track of them. Awesome. Thank you very much. All right. Take it away. All right. Thanks so much. And let me try sharing one more time. Perfect. Yeah. So we can see your screen and the window. Okay. And hopefully, does that... Now we see your desktop. Okay. Sorry about that. One second. One more try. Of course, it always works when you practice, and then disappears when you need it. So I should be able to get this in two seconds. Not a problem. All right. Hopefully, everyone can see this now. We can. We can see your desktop and the window. Okay. How about now? That's perfect. All right. Well, thank you so much for your patience. And I am, as I said before, I'm really delighted to be here. It's great to have a chance to present with other folks that I really respect. And also, I just wanted to give a shout out to the people I saw in the audience, many of whom who have taken the CC certificate course already. So many people here, including Susan, is more of an expert in this than I think we might expect. So I invite you all to chime into this discussion and presentation. So today, what I'm going to do is give a really quick overview of our CC licenses for people who are not familiar with them, and then get right into some recommended practices for attribution. And given our kind of short time right now, if there are things that don't make sense, please feel free to ask questions in the chat space, or you can follow up with me afterward. I put my email address here, and I'm always delighted to connect after webinars like this. Okay. So really quickly, creative comments licenses for those of you who are less familiar are licenses that exist within the realm of copyright. And you likely know copyright is a form of intellectual property law that grants creators permissions as soon as they create an original work and fix it in the tangible medium. So copyright was kind of a law built to incentivize creators during the year of the printing press, but obviously now we have different circumstances, much more freedom for copying and sharing with the internet. So creative comments licenses actually enable creators to offer more permissions than traditional copyright and kind of adapt to the flexibility that we have online today. So they are still legal tools to better help creators. So as you see here, the copy, the CC licenses have a number of different icons, but really there are four elements to keep track of. So I'm going to talk a little bit about these four elements and how they can combine. But again, happy to follow up with more information if anyone's curious on following this webinar. So the first icon that you see is the little human in the circle. That's the CC by icon. And that basically means that the creator deserves recognition for their work. So all of our licenses have that that commonality. All copy, all creative comments licenses require the attribution. And then you see the little icon with the kind of round arrow. And that is our share alike icon. So share like means that all derivative or kind of adapted works from an original work must be shared with the same or analogous license in the future. So you as a as a user of one piece of CC licensed work, if you try to impose additional restrictions on your work that is based on someone else's CC licensed work with a share like license, then you would be infringing on their their permissions. All right, then we have the non commercial icon. So that's the little icon with the dollar sign and the slash through it. And that basically, it means that permission for commercial usage rights are withheld. So if I were to use a work and intentionally make profit from it, when it had the non commercial icon attached, I would be kind of infringing on those those rights. The interesting thing I will note with non commercial is that it really depends on the usage rather than the organization or individual using that work. So you could have a nonprofit trying to make money from an NC licensed work. And that would not be okay. But if you had a for profit organization using NC licensed workforce a an internal staff gallery walk or something that's non commercial and its purpose, then that would be fine. Okay, then we have the no derivatives license and that's the license with the little icon with the equal sign. So no derivatives mean the work can be shared, but only if the work remains unchanged. So hypothetically, if I took a work that had the no derivatives license and made adaptations to it, I could do so for myself. But as soon as I share that with other people, then I've gone against the license. So these are the four main elements of the licenses. And all the licenses, as I mentioned, include the CC by or attribution element. But otherwise, they can be mixed together in different ways based on their permissions afforded. And beyond that commonality of the by license, there are, I guess, the main things to think about are whether or not the work can be used for commercial purposes or the terms by which a downstream user could use a work for adaptation. And then we have the works kind of listed from least restrictive to most restrictive. So CC licensed works exist kind of like in between the realm of the public domain and then all rights reserved copyright. We have two tools for public domain dedications, which users or authors can use to tell people that their work is dedicated to that realm of you know, our human creativity and intellect that exists outside the restrictions of copyright. And those are those two kind of icons at the top, the C with the slash the right or the zero. So those are dedications or tools rather than copyright licenses. And then we have all rights reserved copyright at the very bottom, which is the most restrictive way to to share work. The CC licenses, again, kind of mix the different permissions afforded, they exist within that spectrum. And so you see them listed in light green, all the way down to yellow. And happy to chat about it more. But I think for for right now, we will just move on to the two main things that I want you to to take away with you from this this presentation. So in terms of attribution, if nothing else, just remember these two links or you can click on them now and save them in your browser. The first link is to our our CC license chooser. And this chooser helps you determine the best license to suit your needs. So as a creator, you can run through the chooser answer a couple questions. And then the chooser helps you determine which of the six licenses would best support your your permissions that you want to afford. And then the second link is a link to our best practices page, which rather than just looking at your work as a creator, it looks at how to best attribute other works that you end up using together for for reuse or your own kind of new original work. So let's just go ahead and we'll click on the first link. And hopefully you can see the license chooser on my screen. Okay, great. So this is this is really simple. I will note that we're we're going to be updating this chooser soon. So if you click on this in the future and don't see this kind of layout, don't worry, it's, it's probably going to work even better. So what you see in the first box is just a simple question. Do you want your your work to be adapted? Do you want to allow adaptations of your work to be shared? So you could say, you know, I have a poster that I want to upload online, I would like my my poster to be adapted. Or you could say, nope, I don't. And that would change your your license you see in the next box. Or you could say something between you could say, do I want people to be able to share their adaptations of my poster making completely different posters? Yes, but as long as other people don't add additional restrictions onto their licensed works. So those questions, or that one question, you'll have different licenses. And then the second question is, allow commercial uses of your work? Do I want to? Sure. Or I could say no, and that would also change the license. So depending on what works best for you, you select the answer, the yes, no, or maybe answer. And then you can scroll down and see the icons that reflect the license if you're choosing. So in this case, we ended up with attribution, non-commercial, share like 4.0 international. And then the best way to use this, so this is where we get into attribution, is to literally just copy and paste the icon right here, the text and the link to the original to the license, and post that on your work. You can also, if you're working on a webpage, copy and paste this code. So this is a kind of quick and dirty way of making sure you provide adequate information for attribution. Ideally, you would also put a title on your work and a link to yourself as the author of the work and so on. But this is essentially all you need. Okay, so then we'll click on the second link. And this is our page for best practices for attribution. I'm going to scroll through it because I'm realizing that we're running a little short on time. What you see here are examples of how to attribute an original work and then how to attribute works that are based on that original work, but makes a slight tweaks. So the key elements here that I want to leave you with are tassel. You want to make sure that you have the title, author, source and license outlined in your attribution. So whether you are sharing an original work in kind of a collection or an unadapted form of reuse, or if you are remixing it into creating a brand new work that's unidentifiable to the original, you want to make sure to kind of honor the original author and their permissions of the original work so that downstream users can best abide by those permissions and also recognize the original author or I should say creator. So hopefully that makes sense. There's so much more that we can get into and I know a number of folks in the webinar likely can chime in with some additional recommendations. We can talk if there's time about compatibility and how to best honor different attributions beyond this, but for right now I think this is the key thing that I want you to take away from this webinar. These two sites and also tassel, title, author, source, license. Okay, I'm going to see if I can stop sharing right now and take a look at the chat space. There's actually one of the questions that was asked by Valerie is how does fair use tie into all of this? That's a good question. So there are some exceptions and limitations to copyright. Fair use is one of those. So fair use is common in the U.S. and it is one of the exceptions that says even if a work exists within is restricted by copyright, people have the right to use that work given their specific circumstances. So in the U.S. there's a four factor test that judges will use to determine if fair use applies. I know in other I think commonwealth countries, predominantly commonwealth countries, there's something similar called fair dealing, but these are two exceptions to copyright. They exist outside the restrictions of copyright. And then Una posted the tassel acronym and I know one of the questions I get very often from faculty is how is attribution different from citations? A great question. So attribution is a way to recognize the original creator. I think citations are very similar, but those are more for scholarly works that are listing the sources used to generate the work. So I can come up with a really great website that distinguishes them a little bit after this, but I think the main thing to keep in mind is you can have like one essay, for example, that has citations, but then also recognizes or attributes the original work from other creators that you do from. Oh attribution. Okay. Yeah, thank you. Were there other questions? I didn't see any in the chat, but I just want to give folks a chance to ask other questions. And if we have time at the end, I would love to come back to the remixing discussion because I saw I took a sneak peek. You have a very nice slide coming up. So if we have time, we'll come back. All right. And yeah, Valerie shared some nice links in the chat for attributions. And cool. All right. Well, thank you. I really appreciate this discussion of how attributions work. And what we're going to be moving on to next are two examples of faculty work that were done in different platforms, kind of looking at the faculty experience of working with the licenses and focus specifically on the kind of nuts and bolts of each platform. So Dave, thank you. You are up. Okay. You can see my screen and hopefully not my desktop. We good. Yep. And you can hear me too. So I think we're rolling. Yeah. Okay. Hello and good afternoon, I think for most, if not all of you, I'm Dave Dylan. I'm counseling faculty and a professor at Grossmont College in sunny probably warmer than where most of you are, but feeling a bit cold to us spoiled San Yagans. I curated, I think is the best word. Curated, co-authored and edited three college success OER covering study skills, time management, career decision making. And the main one, I'm humbled and proud to say that it has been adopted now in about 2526 colleges and universities all over the United States and now in Canada. So I'm very pleased that it was not just something that I was able to put together from my own classroom that addressed textbook affordability and had open licensing and pedagogy, but also there are other people that have found value and quality with the work. And so I am right now wishing that I put this on a slide and that's partially because I'm seeing folks on the participant list that I know and I'm thankful for their contributions to the work. And so, as Suzanne was saying, this is a remix. And so I want to recognize and give proper attribution to the authors who previously openly licensed their work to allow me to be able to put this together. And so that's Elise Lamero and Phyllis Nestila at Lane Community College. And special shout out to Amy Hoffer from Open Oregon. Your mentorship was incredibly valued to me. I'm very thankful. Also to Thomas Priester from SUNY and Linda Bruce and Lumen Learning, they were the authors and open licensors and editors of the previous works. And then also a special shout out to Alexis Clifton from the SUNY system. What I wanted to originally try to accomplish was something that had the least restrictive license, so I was trying to find content that was all CC by. One of the works that I found that I felt like I just couldn't do without happened to be a CC by non-commercial license. And Alexis was willing and interested in helping facilitate and ask that ultimately resulted in a previous work being re-licensed as CC by, so less restrictive. And that made it really easy for me to put all the content into CC by the category of CC by, which then made it really simple for downstream users to take that work and not have confusion over different licenses. I used the PressBooks platform and was supported by the PressBooks team and the Reavis community team. And I'd like to show you a little bit about how attributions work inside of PressBooks. I'm also knowledgeable that many of the folks that are participating know more than I do, so feel free to jump in. And if you have things to correct or maybe better examples than I do, I'm happy to hear from you. I'm reiterating Jenren's example of TASL. This is an easy acronym to remember and just a nice best practice if you're including the title, the author, the source, and the license, and you're able to link the source and link the license. You're doing the right thing. We're doing right by our colleagues by properly attributing. And when there's no commercial game, I think this is kind of the least that we can do to ensure that we're giving proper attribution. So this is an example of what the viewer in PressBooks would see for one of the simple attributions. And as Jenren was mentioning, the licenses and attributions kind of go hand in hand. So depending on the license, that will kind of dictate some of what is required or best practice with the attribution. So this is previously shared content. It came from Foundations of Academic Success, Words of Wisdom. That's the title edited by Thomas Priester. I'm not entirely sure that's necessary, but I thought that was the best practice. This particular essay was authored by Kristen Murick. She is the author, so T title, A author, S source. That's the link to the source of the original SUNY work and then L license CC by. And then now I'm going to call your attention to this bottom left area. This probably looks redundant, but what I want to point out here is that this is a very easy way to put the attribution information into the chapter into PressBooks. And I'll show you that on the next slide. What I kind of did here, I think from what I can understand was a bit above and beyond. I wouldn't say that everyone has to do this, but I'll show you where I think it can really be helpful, especially for downstream users later. So this is on the administrative side of PressBooks. This is not something that the viewer would see, but with the administrative access, you can go into a chapter metadata page. And I really only filled out two of these boxes. So I filled out the author and then I filled out the chapter copyright license. That's a dropdown menu that I'll show you on the next slide. If I go back, just by putting those two fields in, this is the result. So the meaning of that is that that was very simple to put together. And then to see what the dropdown menu looks like, these are the options. So once you've figured out what license you're using, either for your entire OER work or for your chapter or unit or part level, you can choose which license is appropriate and put that in there. And then PressBooks will do the rest and pop that at the bottom of the chat. You can do the same thing for the entire book. So if everything was clean and you had the consistent license, there's another area where you can put in the information for the entire book and that will show on the licensing page at the beginning of the OER. Here's a bit more complicated attribution. Again, this is what the user would see. So previously licensed content, we have the title, we have the author, we have two sources. That's because I took the original author's work from two different areas and combined them and then kind of retitled the chapter. And that information I put here in the adaptations. And this is not a requirement for attributions, but I encourage you to think about this for two reasons. One, it was really helpful for me from a record keeping standpoint because if I was either going to reuse or remix something verbatim, that was one area. In other cases like this one, I may have made some slight edits based on what I was trying to put together or for consistency to work together better with other works that were being remixed. And I wanted to keep track of that. So I thought a good place to put that was right with the attributions and licensing and that's why that's in there. Some folks are putting that information in the version history. It doesn't always, it's not always this detailed in there. So I actually have it in both places. I also find that is extremely helpful for downstream users because if anyone was going to go back and take a look at what Phyllis Nisilla had put together and they were comparing and I didn't have that adoption information in there, it could be very confusing to try to figure out, okay, what did they have changed? Why does this not look exactly the same as what Phyllis had put together? I hope that makes sense. Going further, we have the title of a multimedia video. The author in this case is Ted. We have the location or the source and the license. And to be honest with you, I'm not terribly pleased with this gap here, but that's because of the spacing with this really long source. So I think press books will eventually find a better way to present that. It is what it is at this moment. And then two images at the bottom. So title, again, author, source. The source happens to be where the title is. So you're not seeing it separate. It's hyperlinked. So the title and the source are showing together and then licensed there at the end. Okay. Challenging question for the group, is this a proper attribution? And what I would like you to do is spend 30 seconds answering that in the chat, but don't press return yet. Just have your answer typed, but not don't press return. I'll wait 20 seconds. Hopefully we can all send it together just so you're not seeing and being influenced what other people have written. 10 more seconds on this. Okay. Three, two, one. Go ahead and press enter. And Suzanne, if you could let me know if anything is being populated in the chat. Yep. Lots of coming through. More than I could read. You definitely don't have to read them individually, but if you could give me a kind of summary of... Yeah, the most common answer is there's no title link or no source. Yep. That's the most common answer. Okay. So you're right on. The title is college success in this case. I know that may not have been intuitive. You're absolutely right, though, that the source is missing. And I'm sharing this example because this was a real real lifetime thing that happened. What I was attempting to accomplish was to properly attribute this source and content. And when I went to the Lumen source, I copied and pasted what was in there for the attribution. And so low and behold, what I realized and it seems very logical now, but really wasn't at the time. Sometimes original content that is first published may not include a source link or even a source because it would be linking to itself. And so sometimes that is a practice that's done and sometimes it's not. And I think I was focusing on a hundred different things at the time and didn't really realize that it was missing that. So shout out to David Wiley, who had kind of taken a look at something when I had a few questions about attribution. And he politely and respectfully pointed out, hey, Dave, your source is missing here. And this is how it should read. And I was so appreciative and grateful for that. So something to watch out for when you're looking at that attribution. And if you follow Tassel, you're going to make sure that you have that source in there. One more example, and then I'll leave it open for a few questions. This is, again, what the viewer would see. And this is an image that my attempt was to properly attribute. And so you can see the attribution there below the image, the world and I, memo by color like four. And this is CC by NC and D. And so on the administrative end within press books, you can see the two fields on the top for alternative text and caption and the information that I have in there. And then honestly, when I was preparing for this presentation, and I went back in here, I realized the press books had built some new options. That advanced option with the image title attribute did not exist when I was originally putting together the work. And I'm excited to explore that because what I think is happening is my alt text should likely be very close to what the caption should be. And what I have for the caption should really be in the image title attribute. And what I was doing was kind of a workaround so that the proper attribution would be seen on the screen. But that's not really what we want for the caption part. And so further, many of you may already be familiar with this. For the caption, we want we want to ensure that there aren't issues if someone is reading on something that doesn't display images essentially. And for alt text, for search engine optimization and for accessibility, for screen readers, for visual impairment, those are extremely important to have in there. So things I learned along the way and clearly some more work that I need to do to ensure everything is in the right place. This is one of the last slides. If you are working with press books or interested in learning more, this is a fantastic resource. It is constantly updated. Huge thanks to the press books and read this team for putting this together, for answering my questions. Shout out to Steele and Aperva because they've been phenomenal supporting me and answering my questions and helping me with trying to ensure that attributions are as smooth as they could possibly be. Okay. So I think there may be a couple minutes, Suzanne, for questions if there are any in the chat. Yeah, I think we have about a minute or two. The first question is with your example from Lumen. Who owns the copyright? Would it have been the author or Lumen or how does one find that out? Yeah, that's a great question. So I'm going to share something that I'm not sure how much I'm supposed to share. What likely ordinarily happens is that in this case, the author is Lumen Learning. When I was putting together the remix and combining specific names for other works, it seemed a bit odd to me that I was going to have an attribution to a organization rather than a person or a team of people. So I had both reached out to Lumen and where that lead took me, I ended up speaking in Linda. And so in a candid conversation, my ask both to Lumen and Linda was, can you tell me who wrote the work? Because I would like to properly attribute this. And so it was a consensus that it was really written by Linda and that's where I wanted to attribute it. So I don't at all mean to leave Lumen out and certainly they are included in the source. But I thought the best, the best, most accurate attribution was to Linda. Did that answer the question? Yes, that was very helpful. Thank you. So for my angle, I don't expect everyone to do that, but that was what I thought was the most comfortable or best thing for me to do. Yeah. And then the other question, and I'm going to read it because I'm not sure I follow quite, but when using applications like RISE, there is access to a content library of public domain images but with no metadata. Who is responsible for attributions in this case? We often put a caption but can't get it source title, etc. And I think that's kind of what you were showing is if there's not a clear way to add the metadata, there's workarounds like putting it in the caption. But yeah, that's not ideal if there's no place to put the metadata. And that may be a time too to have content at the end of a chapter or the end of a page. That's really more text-based even though it's technically not an attribution, but where you can put that information. Yeah, I think it's a great question too. So shortly, I think one, it's the author or authors or publisher that are responsible for that information. And in a few instances with my work, I have had to write the alt text and or the caption as closely as possible for what I think they're supposed to be and learned a lot through that process along the way. If you have an accessibility expert on your campus, that's a great way to try to get some more information. On the other question, if the platform you're using doesn't have space for metadata, I would just put it in plain text either above, I think above the the images best or below. Above I think is best for from an accessibility standpoint. Yep, and then Jenner points out for public domain images, we don't technically have to attribute, although it is nice too. So yeah, great point. And I am going to move us along because I think we're in Athena's time. So, Dave, if you stop sharing, I am going to move her slides along. So give me a second, Athena, are you ready to go? Yeah, I can try sharing my screen and if it's not successful, then I'll go back to you. That's fine. I can manage if you like. Or do you want to try yours? Yeah, let me try mine. Okay, so we can see the program and I bet if you go to presenter, it would be just fine. Yeah, maybe one. Great. Yep. Okay, hi. Yes, thanks once again to everyone. And as Dave said very aptly, there are a number of you who probably know a lot more about this than we do. You know, I've worked on two OERs, I'll tell you a bit more about myself, but please, you know, please chime in with your expertise and share that with the whole group and me at the most appreciative. So this is a presentation on my experience working on two with two OERs using LibraTex. So I wanted to tell you a bit more about LibraTex and why I chose it over the other platforms. So I've already given you an introduction about myself. I have two books that I worked on, two OERs that I worked on last semester. And we're just finalizing them this semester and they should be ready to go in the summer. But one was, you know, writing and critical thinking through literature. And the other one was writing, reading and college success. And, you know, we had a number of interesting situations come about with attributions. So, you know, through all of this, the LibraTex founder and main person Delmar was extremely helpful, which brings me to why we chose LibraTex. LibraTex is a platform from UC Davis. They've got a big grant. And it's free. It has all the tools Pressbook has as well as the bigger team. But the main reason we chose it was for the one-on-one support, the, you know, there's an onboarding once a week on Tuesdays and then then top of that there's office hours. And then you also have a very responsive team over email. Like I would literally ask a question and within one hour I would get a response. So that was extremely helpful and, you know, very grateful to Delmar and the whole LibraTex team for helping us so much with our courses. So I just wanted to give you, as I said, a brief overview of our experience using LibraTex and then especially the attributions process of it. So the kind of attributions we came across, you know, obviously you will know that some of them already had a Creative Commons license. And so we had to just follow that format for proper attributions, which I'll show you what LibraTex expects. And then those that did not have any copyright or licensing information, that had a special procedure. And then those that had a copyright, but we had received permissions to use. So we had to deal with these three different kinds of attributions. So now the one thing that was very helpful to me was to find out what LibraTex minimum requirements were. So when talking to Delmar, he kind of said that he sees himself in between. Like he's, you know, he, for him getting the link is most important because that gives you, gets you to the base of the, like the source. Like so including the link is super important. And, you know, while we as a team agreed, we wanted the link to the exact page where we were getting it from. He seemed okay with just even the main page of the course or the source we were getting the text from. So, and then LibraTex also has a meta box, the same thing that Dave was showing us with pressbooks. And, but that is on top. And I'll show you how that works with here. So for LibraTex requires the name of source linked to the homepage author publishing house or original platform and then the license. So nothing new there. So this is how it might look. And again, you know, with, with LibraTex, we had to put the source down on the bottom. We like to embed all the links because we found that when we were printing out, the links would you know, really mess up the text. So we wanted to embed all our links within there rather than give the web links separately. So, so this is the link to the web page. And as I said, the homepage is okay. And then this is the platform and then this is the license, seeing information. So this is the drop down menu. And this is on top. So each page after you compile all the information. So as Dave put it aptly, we just, you know, massive compilers of all this wonderful information on the web. But then we have to put in the most restrictive license on top here, because even though some of them might have a very open license, but it's the most restrictive license that determines the whole page. And if somebody then wants, they can go in and see which, you know, which is the least restrictive, most restrictive. But, you know, we, we have to put this as and show the most restrictive for the whole page. Then, so there's a process for getting permissions to use content currently not part of the Creative Commons. So I actually came across a lot of very useful information on educational like university sites, because I was working on, you know, a literature course and writing composition course. And many universities had wonderful information on them. But and I contacted them and they were like, yes, you can use it. We don't have, you know, it's free to use, but we don't have anything to do with Creative Commons or anything yet, but you're welcome to use it. But yes, you're still required to get official permissions, even though, you know, they've, they've verbally given you permission. It's just that they haven't gotten on board. And those initial tools that we saw earlier in the presentation would be a wonderful thing for everyone to share with these kind of institutions, so that they can have a licensing practice. So what do you do in that case? And then also, what do you do when you have copyright? You have permission to use a copyright piece of work. So we came up with this permission form along with Labor Text to send to them. And this actually had to be linked in some way, you know, along with the attributions. So and then also Delma wanted me to mention there's a new attribution warning system. So he quoted and I've taken a screenshot of it. So if you wanted to use any of the material on a Libre Text course, it immediately tells you what the copyright is. I mean, what not, I'm sorry, what the license is, you know, right in a pop-up. So that makes it very clear. So with photographs, what's different is we put the, in Libre Text, we put the licensing and all the information directly beneath the image. So when we know the photograph, the photographer, we definitely include that and we include who, you know, who the photograph is about. And so this would be a good way to attribute it. But as opposed to press book, it goes directly underneath and not in the bottom section. And again, if it's from a source where you don't know the photographer, but it's, you know, part of the, it's not copyrighted, you can just link to that page and then say it's from, say, Pixar Bay or something. And for the videos, ideally, you can link to include the link directly under the video. But as far as a lot of the videos YouTube go, sometimes you don't really know where that source is. So with Libre Text, they prefer not to host YouTube videos on their site. So you're actually linking to an external site, in which case it doesn't, you know, it is not Libre Text's responsibility to, to kind of mention, find out, you know, where the actual videos come from. But technically on the YouTube site, they have, you know, once we link to them, it's their kind of responsibility. So he hasn't been too particular about not, about including any links for YouTube videos for that reason. Any questions so far? I feel I'm, I'm running along like a freight train to make sure we have enough questions at the end. No questions so far, lots of great chat, chat or in the chat, but no questions. So you're good to go. Okay, and excellent. So snags and how to avoid them. So for us, having that conversation with Delmar from Libre Text was really wonderful to find out what the minimum requirements were. And, you know, as I said, they have an extensive, they're very responsive, and they will answer anything. And I think they have an FAQ, but they're fairly new. So they're getting together the guide, getting together a guide and stuff. So the other thing I would recommend is providing attributions as you go along. I was sure I knew where that source was coming back, coming from, but then when I actually went back, I didn't remember exactly which course it was, and I had to search all over again. So, you know, how always have a backup and prepare for permission forms not arriving in time. So in addition to the main OER databases, we found Google Advanced Search to be very helpful for finding content that could be shared, because it has an option that allows you to search only for work that fits in a particular license. And then we found using a style guide really important to get a certain consistency. So this was the style guide was for the whole course, but this was for the the contributor section. So one, what kind of header to use, and then getting a certain format that we could then replicate. So what I also found very helpful, and this is a kind of personal attribution builder. But if you know, often you find yourself drawing from the same sources again and again and again. So rather than building each page individually, I had a separate Google Sheet where I listed all the main courses I was using and correctly formatted them. And I had it open the same time I was working on the course. So I could just cut and paste very, very quickly rather than writing in each, you know, each each attribution. So wish list, you know, for LibreText to build up this guidelines page, that would be really helpful. And I wish we had all this information before we started, but we've had a wonderful experience working with it. And yeah, and it's very great to get to know this community better. Yes, we can take questions. Thank you. Yeah, there was really great discussion in the chat that I'm trying to summarize as a single question for anyone that may know the answer. And there's there's some some good answers in the chat as well, but about sources where the content goes away. And the point was made that even if someone changes the license downstream, you can't backwards revoke or whatever the term there is. So you're okay. But how do you link to something that no longer exists as a way to prove what the original license was? Is that a good summary? And does anyone have a good answer? And it's willing to jump up? Well, I know from my experience that some sites mentioned specifically, like there was an open learned site from England, which had some good material I pulled from, but they said specifically that their material could be pulled at any time. So they were saying while it has this Creative Commons license now and can be shared, we cannot ensure that it will always be the case. So sometimes they stay upfront. And then I don't know, you know, how you are to find out when it changes. But I guess once it changes, you can't use that material anymore. You can, but it's hard to kind of have the evidence there as well. And Una had a great point in the chat. Quill had created a nice way to keep track of all the resources that that folks are using in their own creation. And that way you have the link and Alexis, yes, that's a great idea. The Internet Archive or the Wayback Machine will allow you to find old websites. And it doesn't archive everything, but it's been pretty helpful in the cases that I've had to use it. So yeah, keeping a record is definitely a starting point. And having them all downloaded, I tend to, you know, flash drive space is pretty cheap. I tend to just download everything. And then at least I have a copy of the PDF or whatever it might be that hopefully has the information. But yeah, that's a really great, maybe a whole other webinar in fact. What do you do with sources that go away? So I am going to screen share again, if I can find it, just for a few wrap up bits of information. Hopefully you can see my screen. We have webinars as listed here that are 3pm Eastern Time unless they're noted otherwise. We have some really great webinars coming up about open pedagogy, user friendly design, and so on. There's of course open Ed Week where there will be lots and lots of fabulous things happening, including webinars from CCCOER. If you'd like to, there we go, if you'd like to stay in the loop, be sure to join our community email and take a look at our website. There's also a really great post happening in the EDI blog, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion. Oops, not what I meant to do, sorry about that. So thank you. We're right at the top of the hour, but if folks have questions, I can hang out for just a little bit and continue some discussions. And just lastly I want to thank once again our presenters. This was really helpful and we appreciate the time you took in sharing your process and the information that you had for us. So thank you very much. Thank you.