 We're back with the breakfast in Plus TV Africa and for a second conversation, we'll look at the rate of suicide in Nigeria. Report says no fewer than 79 persons have committed suicide in Nigeria, that's in 2022. The 79 persons comprised of 70 meals, 9 females, within the period, that's 2022. The breakdown shows that Lagos ranked the highest of 12 suicide cases, followed by Oyo state, and 10 in Kano, 4 in Anambra, and 3 in Ado state, 3 in Delta state, Ogun, and 3, and another 3 in River state. The figure does not include the number of cases of suicide that have been reported in the media. However, this morning, to make sense of these reported cases, and not reported cases, we have Ola Bisi and Temidara. She's a therapist and self-empowerment coach right here in Lagos. Temidara, it's good to have you join us this morning. Thank you very much, Merci, thank you very much. Yes, what are your thoughts about this report? I mean, this is not entirely reported cases, however, but this is what we have. So you have unreported cases and reported cases. But what are your thoughts about the cases that have been reported? I think that the deaths by suicide has increased over the years in Nigeria. It wasn't always the case. This is due to a lot of factors, right, and depression being the lead factor for suicide in Nigeria. Obviously, there are other factors that are responsible for death by suicide, which is of course our economic situation in the country, which is not helping anybody. We have emotional and physical abuse. We have prolonged loneliness that actually affects people's financial issues and so on. But depression has been the underlying factor for the majority of deaths by suicide in Nigeria. So, largely, we're saying that depression in Nigeria has increased a lot, and this is affecting people and hands for their poverty to society. Alright, Aunt Temidara, you know, some people could argue that the reason we're having this sort of increase in suicide rates in Nigeria is because we have more suicides being reported with the increasing adaptability of Nigerians and use of people in Nigeria, of social media, news is flying faster. And some would say people have been committing suicide before now. It's just that we hear of it more than we used to hear about it before. Do you agree with this? Could you check that again? I'm saying that some would argue that the reason we have the increasing rates of suicide in the country is because more cases are being reported because of the internet. We have the internet now. We have social media now. So, someone takes a phone and says, oh, oh, someone reports it. And do you think that is the case? Absolutely. I think prior to now, the social media wasn't as big as it is now. So, we're having reported cases of suicide other than what we used to have in the past. Perhaps when people committed suicide back in the days that were not reported, but now because of social media ability to spread news fastest, we are able to report a larger number of people committing suicide. And I think, yes, it's a big factor to help cleaners report the number of suicides being attempted or committed in the country. I hope I answered the question because I didn't really care that very well. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. So, let's begin to talk about, you know, if there's a possibility. I mean, usually when you hear reports of people committing suicide, the comments and the thoughts of a lot of people will be like, you know, why would you take your life? I mean, as long as there's hope, there's life and there's several comments and some of this can be, you know, perceptions that have been put out right there. How exactly, you know, can we fight against this? Is it possible to prevent people from committing suicide? Absolutely. Again, I mentioned earlier that depression is the leading cause of suicide in Nigeria. And if you go by the definition of depression, depression is that most mental illness, right, where people are able to think rightly, they have prolonged mood swings, they dissociate themselves from people, they're isolated, they have very low energy, they're not able to function very well. So if depression is the major cause of suicide in Nigeria, it therefore means that if we're able to sort of address depression, it means that a large extent people would sort of prevent suicide in Nigeria. However, there are triggers for depression, for example. I mentioned earlier the economic situation of the country. There is huge stress within the country as it is, right? People are going through a lot. But when we're going through a lot, does that mean we are all depressed? Absolutely not. So there's a subtle distinction between stress, suffering, and depression. So if we must prevent suicide, we need to find a way to prevent how people are triggered into depression. And I also understand that one of the causes of depression is our prolonged habitual pattern of thinking. Yes, things are not really working in Nigeria, and we're all stressed and suffering. But if we continually be in that state, what happens is you get into the negative, you get to think, oh, this life is not really working. Am I really worth it? I think I will put it to everybody. Once you enter that loop, it becomes difficult for you to get out. So to prevent depression and prevent suicide in the short term will be that when you have societal thoughts, for example, find someone you can speak to. When you speak to somebody, it's not really because the person can essentially solve your problem. But the single fact that you're able to remove whatever it is that is bothering you and let it out and somebody can hear you softens those thoughts and also inability to see therapists and all of that. But in the long run, I think the government can do much more than they are doing now. I would assert that the government can sort of adjust the curriculum and put in practical tips, practical subjects where students actually can learn at an early age how to use tools for them to sort of reframe their thinking, sort of remove themselves when they speak in that state, know how to get up, know who to speak to. It would help a great deal. Understanding behavior, understanding that suffering is different from depression. Again, just to say for emphasis, unless you're medically diagnosed to have depression, whatever you're going to be, not be depression, just to be clear on that. So now let's begin to differentiate that. I know that a few would come in in no time. So how do we differentiate between just going through life, stress and depression and getting to the point where it's societal. Okay, so like I said, if you look at my GR, for example, ideally I think we all should be depressed by the... So we're all depressed. I didn't say that. And by this stress we're going through, the people throw it around a lot like, you know, I'm feeling so depressed, but really what we are feeling is suffering, like physical suffering, staying in queues, to buy fuel, traffic, it is crazy. The financial situation is not helping. Yes, we are suffering, but does that mean we are depressed? Absolutely not. So differentiating will be that. If you, for example, go to the hospital and discuss with your doctor, they will tell you to do some medical exam before they can diagnose you to have depression. Again, depression is a mental... So are there symptoms? I mean, I'd like to cut you in there now. This is the point where I ask, do we have symptoms just like you have with malaria, you have with, you know, other ailments? Are there symptoms and signs? Absolutely, absolutely. Just that way depression has several categories. If you go to the hospital, for example, they can tell you, okay, you just have a mild symptoms of depression. They may just tell you what you need to do and may not give you that presence. But sometimes if you go into severe depression, then they give you that depressant. And then at that stage, usually people then begin to have suicidal thoughts, but usually if it's mild, they can manage you. Right, the typical symptoms of a depressed person or even people having suicidal thoughts seem to be similar. First is, you know, they tend to dissociate themselves from people. You know, just withdrawal and they're not engaged in a lot of activities. That is one. Then they begin to have feelings of whatlessness. Like, you know, I'm not enough. I think I'm important to everybody in this world. There is no hope. I can't get out of it. Usually when people suffer from guilt, shame, maybe they're grieving. I mean, there are several other conditions that you may feel, that may feel like, you know, this life is not really for me. I just need to tap out. And that's really what happens. So just to answer your question again, common symptoms of depressed persons, I mean, potentially need to be a societal art that, you know, mood disorder, for starters, mood disorder, prolonged isolation. You don't have activities. You feel like, you know, I'm tapping out. There's really nothing in this life for me. And really that those are the common symptoms that people get when they're depressed. I think it's important. You also said that we as a public society, we need to know how to relate with people, be caring, check on people. And also how we respond to some of these things that you've talked about, people who maybe feel sad, you know, maybe feel lonely, you know, instead of saying, you know, sometimes the tendency to say, come on, are you not that grown up? Come on, be strong, you know, strong your heart, strong your mind, you know. But sometimes we need to also, because we don't want to be soft, you know. I'm one of those people, I don't want to go hard. But hey, we have to be more empathetic, you're saying. But finally, earlier this week or late last week, I think, the head of the National Drug Law Enforcement Agency in Nigeria, Bouba Marua said on a radio program that according to their own statistics, at least 15 million Nigerians are on hard drugs, banned substances. Does this have a role to play in this increased suicide rate? Absolutely, absolutely. You know, like I mentioned, there are different factors that lead to suicide, depression being the leading factor, but there are all the associated factors, which is what you mentioned, substance abuse. I also mentioned emotional and physical abuse as well. But speaking on substance abuse, we find that, you know, when you take substances, AKA drug, for example, in this context, what you tend to get is to be in an excited state, you know. And by the virtue of that state, that state is not a permanent state. So what happens is, you know, you're going through a lot. You think that by taking drugs, it is going to elevate your mood. Temporarily it does. But the problem is once it wears off, you go deeper into whatever despondency you were feeling prior to taking the drugs. So over time, you know, they take more drugs, sort of, you know, pumps themselves to feel better than they're already feeling. And once it wears off, you know, they get into deeper mood swings and stuff like that. At some point, you're like, you know, this is not working. I just need to end it all. And usually we have younger, younger people being afflicted with sort of drug abuse or substance abuse in this case, which then sort of lead them to commit suicide if they don't get help, send it off. Alright, let's... I'd like to ask you this because we're costing down, just in less than a minute, is that we know the legal position for Niger. It will be stated that it's not a crime. But in the case of attempted suicide or attempted suicide, that becomes a crime if you want to take your life. There are places who see how persons who try to take their life. I like not to mention those places, not to enhance that. People who try to take their life and then they have been rescued, they have been arrested because that's a crime. Does that even solve the problem? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Again, if you understand that for you to get to that position, you don't want to know what the individual is going through. So I would have said that maybe a better approach would be that they should get them help rather than charge you for trying to take your own life. Just being human, my life is my life. And I could argue that I don't want this life again. Therefore, I want to end this. But again, that's just been funny. But I don't think that's my opinion. I think rather than charge them, they should get them help. Alright. So Labisi and Temidara, thank you so much for your time. It's been therapeutic talking to you this morning. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me, Kofi. Thank you very much. Alright. She's a therapist in self-empowerment. Coach, merci. We all need to ask ourselves from Temidara, how are you, my friend? Probably... When did you ask me how I was, merci. But I have. I do ask you every other time, even just a few some minutes back. You know, you have just been very defensive. You know, the thing is, you have somebody, how are you, I'm fine. Nobody wants to say I'm not fine. Nobody wants to confess. See, I remember one time... Even when things are well, not to say it as well. So I know that that's a cliche, and that's the problem with us. We'll definitely move on in no time. Just give us one minute. But usually, I remember very well. I think that it's because of the culture. It's a cultural thing, it's a behavioral thing. It has also become cliche. If somebody asks you if you're fine, it's just natural for you to say, hey, I'm all right. But you're not okay. Even at a time, you probably might just be in danger. And then you say, I'm fine. And that's because it's just human tendency or natural for us to try to put up a face and say, well, okay, because we don't want to appear weak, we don't want to appear like we have problems, we don't want to appear like we're complaining and we're whining and what have you, but hey. And the response is always, I'm fine. I'm not telling you later. I remember a time when someone asked me, that was way back sometime ago as a student, I was on the way, I was trying to get a cab back home. And someone asked me, are you fine? And I asked him if I'm not fine, what can you do about it? I was so angry. Oh my God. You're asking me that. But we need to go, that's it. We need to stop all this. It is well, it is well. All right. There is coffee bar gels. And I am Messia Bopu. We joined the newsroom at 9 o'clock for the news brief and that's it, good morning.