 Welcome to All Things LGBTQ Plus Youth Edition. Today is July 15th. Yeah. Yes, 15th. Yes. 2019. My name is Jules. I use her pronouns. Next to me is. I'm Naven. I use he, him pronouns. I'm Jay and I use they, them pronouns. And today we're going to be talking about the word queer. We're going to delve into its history. We're going to talk about our personal opinions on it. It's going to be super fun. We're going to do a whole bunch of stuff. So let's start with the history, I guess. The Oxford English, I'm reading off notes, by the way. The Oxford English Dictionary credits the 16th century Scottish people for coming up with word queer. It depicted accusation of sexual perversion or weakness. And the first person to use the word queer as a homophobic slur was, God, I'm bad at names, John Sholto Douglas. He sounds like an asshole. He sounds like an asshole. He is, as we will soon find out, in 1894. He was announcing snob queers, like the one his eldest son was involved in, in a letter to his youngest son. And fun fact, his youngest son was having an affair with Oscar Wilde. So karma. I wish. What was that? Nothing. Anyways. Anyways. So the use of the word queer as a slur reaches height and popularity in the late 1920s. But the Stonewall Riots. Riots. Riots. Riots. Riots. In 1969 marked the beginning of the gay rights movement in the U.S. And from the start of the movements, members of the community called themselves queer as an act of defiance. Yet that age of sexual liberation in the 70s turned a tragedy in the 80s when more than 16,000 Americans died of age-related complications in just five years. The eighth crisis sparked an era of activism. The crisis had a huge impact on the young activists who took up the word queer as a badge of courage. This all culminated in the founding of Queer Nation in 1990. And at Pride that same year, they passed out Queers Read This. For the first time, the world was hearing, we're here, we're queer. Get used to it. That's what I have for your history lesson. Got any Latin lessons? Got any Latin lessons? No, sadly we're not doing Latin this time. We're not talking about pansexuality. If we were, I'd have more Latin. We'll have another Latin lesson next time. We won't. We might. So anyways. Anyways, that sort of marked that, that kind of brought us into the early 2000s. And then from there, there's been a huge change in the way the word queer has been used or change in that it's really picked up as less of a slur and more of a identity or a common word used, especially with the online community growing, you see it a lot more. And the only time I really hear it as a slur, and it doesn't count as a slur, is usually people in the community using it at other people. A queer. Yeah. And they're not using it, like they're using it as a joke, I guess? Like not like, there are people who genuinely are like, oh yeah, you're queer. But then there's other people who are like, oh, you're queer, but they're in the community. So like. And queer has also, throughout history, has also been a synonym for odd or weird or things like that. And it's just, so I think that's why a lot of people don't like to use it for themselves because it has a relationship to those words, and that's more uncomfortable to them, I think. So. You don't like the word queer. I don't like the word queer, and I'm really interested to go into this. And I'm medium on the word queer. Yeah, so I'm kind of going to. Perfect. Not really go off, but I'm going to just say why I don't like the word queer. And I just want to start by saying I'm fine. Like I'm totally supportive of anyone else using the word queer to describe themselves or something like that. I just don't like myself being called queer and I don't like it being called the queer community. I'm allowed to say like other slurs, too, because I might use examples. It's Glamour. If you have some problems with certain slurs, such as the T-slur, the F-slur, or the D-slur, they might come out. Yeah, yeah. It's Glamen. D-slur? Oh. Okay, anyways. So my experience with the word queer is that. The D-slur is doing this. Sorry. Okay. My experience with the word queer is that when I first came out and started to like figure out my identity as an LGBT person, it was used everywhere, like especially online, which was online. My school's GSA was the only exposure I had to the LGBT community whatsoever. T. So that word was used a lot. And it wasn't really regarded as a slur. And it was never presented to me. And no one ever was like, hey, queer is a slur to me when I first came out and was first figuring things out. So it never seemed to be a slur to me. And later as I got older and I became more comfortable in my identity and I was hearing different voices within the LGBT community, I realized queer does have a very violent history being used as a slur. And I wasn't comfortable being called queer. And I feel like a lot, this is a slight change, I feel like a lot of younger people, especially like when they first come out in like online communities or in their school GSAs, they sort of disregard queer's history and how heavy and like violent and awful it is. And I feel like there's just a lack of appreciation for the word queer in spaces that have younger kids. And I don't know, it just bothers me for them to be using that word without really understanding it. So my kind of personal experience with queer since we're going to go into that a little bit right now is to me queer has always been easier than having like individualized labels. Like even now I still have a slight aversion to saying like I'm bisexual or I'm pansexual because I still don't know the difference. But so queer has always just been more comfortable, kind of like I don't really, it literally just like not straight, not, not, I am so gendered, not straight. And just kind of I don't have to like delve into like oh I like men, women and everything and all of that. I can just be like queer. That's all you need to know. And like well a lot of people do like using it, using it because of that reason because it's easier to use and stuff. I personally as a bisexual, bisexuality, bisexual trans man boy, I'm not a man. So as a bisexual trans boy, especially bisexual, I've seen a lot of bisexual people's identities erased by people either calling them gay, straight or just queer. And so gay and straight is a whole other thing. But people tend to erase bisexual people's identities just by calling them queer. For whatever reason, I don't really know why. Maybe because you know I actually have no idea why but I've seen it happen a lot. I don't know. And just by like just owning my identity and like saying I'm bisexual has a lot of power for me personally because it's just not something I ever really see a lot. I get that a lot. And for me kind of saying like I'm queer has more power in saying like I'm bisexual at least to me. Like I think there's power in both. But for me it's just like queer is more like if I take this word that has been used to hurt people it can no longer hurt me. Yeah. And I don't know. I think my problem especially when I was younger is that it was forced on me a lot. And that like I just never got the chance to read. I never got the choice really to reclaim it for myself because it was always pushed on me so much. And like here come the other slurs but like the word tranny is something that I can reclaim and I call myself a tranny sometimes to sort like basically for the reason you use queer to sort of like you know claim it back. But I still would find an offensive of someone else called me tranny. But my point is basically I can reclaim that slur and I've had the time and to reclaim that slur and that's been my choice to reclaim that slur as opposed to queer just being pushed on me by everyone really which kind of sucks. I think like in life as you go up to get more time do you think you'd ever reclaim the word for yourself? Or do you think it's always going to be like an aversion towards that word? I think I very well could. It's just I have like I obviously have a lot of feelings about the have to work out and I don't know just maybe if it wasn't pushed on so many people like pushing so many kids especially really bothers me like younger kids. We'll talk about that a little bit so your labels push on to kids. Yeah and another thing before we move on because you also haven't said anything yet. I know. I was like I need to include Jay somehow. I was thinking in my head how do I do that. So before we move on is also that the word queer has been used to like erase like gay and lesbian people's identities just by calling them queer or like trans people's identities even if they don't want to like be called that and they just want to use their own labels and it's like use us this big like an umbrella term but like not everyone wants to use it I guess and people just tend to ignore that. Yeah I mean sorry I will include you in the conversation I promise. I like queer is an umbrella term because the acronym that we have is ever changing and growing like a lot and like everyone no one can really they decide on an acronym to me so I'm just like if there was a better word that wasn't queer that wasn't a slur. Yeah. I would use that to describe the whole LGBTQ plus community. Yeah. But I once had someone say wow it's really amazing how fast you can say LGBTQ plus and I'm like well yeah because I have to. Yeah you get used to saying. You just kind of blur it out it all becomes like one huge word. Yeah. Sometimes I think of like BLTs. Why do you think what? All the letters are in there. But anyways yeah I know I've seen people you know I agree with you first. That's not the letters. I'm sorry I just like get like a bisexual lesbian trans sandwich. Yeah so I again know I agree with you I would be fine with some. Gross. Using one word to describe the community. You don't want it to be queer I just. Yeah just because it's a reclaim slur right it's just not really. So anyways. What is your personal experience with the word queer because. Oh like I mean I've heard it use negatively I've had people in my life use it negatively. But I've never had it negatively used towards me per se. I've heard people use it as in like oh why is my phone being queer. Or that's kind of queer like that. And like I've never had a problem myself with it. I knew it's history. And I knew that it could be bad. And then I knew that people have been using it to identify as themselves. So like I don't I like I identify as I identify as queer. But at the same time like it's not like what I use like if I were just going to umbrella myself I normally just say gay. Which. Yeah gay is also kind of a turning into more of a. Gay term. Which is kind of weird because it's not a rich. It's not really like queer if you look it's more of an umbrella term than gay because gay is literally just an identity. Or like homosexual. So who's going to like greet them like it's like if someone asks what your sexuality is you're not going to say oh I'm a homosexual. You're going to say oh I'm gay. I mean I would. You would because you're extra. I would call myself a homo though. Yeah I do. I have my own opinions about using gay as an umbrella term but should we. I mean I don't know like again I'm very middle on the using gay as an umbrella term. Because like that erases identities but also it gives us something I don't know. I feel like currently the the technical if we were going to umbrella term anything it would post to be LGBTQ plus. At the same time at the same time it's like people are lazy and not everyone's going to say the acronym. And so things like queer or gay get used as an umbrella term instead. I had a comment but I forgot it. Can I. Go. So well I've heard people say that like oh I just don't want to say the whole acronym as an excuse to just call the whole community queer. I've also heard people say that oh you can make cute freaking puns out of it as an excuse to use the word queer. And I don't know like I've actually heard people say that I can't remember who it was. I mean that's just really I feel like that just shows that they really don't appreciate the history of the word. Because like if they had a good reason to use it I might listen to them but since they're just like oh it's easy. It's easier to say trans than transgender. We don't see people doing that. Just say trans. I mean yeah. It's literally shorter than the floor anyways. Yeah. I know but like that's basically my point. Yeah. And. You can give me a. Sorry. Okay. And a slight tangent but about using gay as an umbrella term. Do you mind if I go into that. Sure. Okay. It's kind of well it's not I don't I don't think it should be used as an umbrella term because it definitely erases by people's identities. Like I've like people call me gay as a joke and like that's fine and all but they know I'm by. But I've seen plenty of people on the internet be like oh I'm bi but I call myself gay lol haha. I'm so yeah and it's just like if you were to okay this is a personal experience but I came out to my dad and I was like I'm gay. At the time I thought I was pansexual. I thought that would get the message across. Obviously it wouldn't. We talked about it in the last time. Last time. We did. I didn't hear it all. Still haven't know um no but it's like that doesn't like just saying you're gay. Like if I were to go up so and say I'm gay they'd probably be like oh he likes boys and only boys which isn't true. Okay um I don't know and like I don't know using gays and umbrella terms just like never really made sense to me. Like I might call myself gay as a joke but I'm still like no I'm not sexual. Because like I make jokes about being a lesbian all the time. Yeah. And like I'm not a lesbian. Fun fact I do like mad occasionally. I mean literally my family member like I've told you this or I don't know if I've told you. People just think I'm a lesbian. No. Do you have the same problem? Well literally I came back from the the the queer summit. I mean the I mean it's called the queer youth summit. Yeah I know and I have problems with that. And I was I was just sitting down eating dinner. My family sat down looked at me and goes I don't think you're pansexual. And so I just prepared myself to be like oh here we go like they're gonna say I'm straight. And then my family goes I think you're a lesbian. And I'm like. You're all family and unison. Yeah it's all no one. Yes. All the dogs. All the six dogs in unison. And I mean I don't know if it's worse or better. Like oh my family doesn't think I'm straight. That's something. They know that. But. You're not straight. They're just not sure what else. They know I'm not straight but like yeah. So when it comes to like people using umbrella terms or people using slurs for themselves. Yeah in my mind I won't really ever police someone's language. So I think you have the right to say whatever you want to say. I think there are words you obviously shouldn't say. And I might be like hey white person don't go running around saying the N word. But I can't necessarily stop them. So I and like when it comes to like slurs especially within the LGBTQ plus community. I was gonna call it the queer one. I mean you could just call it the community. If you're with a group of people that know what you're talking about. You can just call it the community. Especially in the community when it comes to like slurs and stuff. I do not care how you choose to use them. As long as you're not using them against other people. If you're using them towards yourself. I mean go ahead is how I feel. I just don't think you should use them at other people or label other people. Yes. And that's how I grew up with swears too. It's like as long as you're not using them to hurt someone. You can say them. Context matters. Which is how I grew up with swears. And that's how I treat slurs. Like I'll call myself queer. I know Naven doesn't like it. So I'm not gonna call him that. Yeah. But so that's the thing with umbrella terms though. Is that like you ask anyone. If you ask anyone like does trans fall under the queer umbrella. Does bisexual fall under the queer umbrella. They're gonna say yes. And that's me. So therefore they're labeling me as queer. And like even like really big organizations in the state. Like outright Vermont. Which I absolutely love. It's not supposed to be a call. But I absolutely love outright. But they use it. They use it all the time. The queer youth summit. The queer youth summit. My group is a group for queer questioning. Queer trans and questioning. And like I spent so much time. Like this is a little personal. I spent a lot of time trying to be like oh it's okay. They're not calling me queer. So there's the trans. That's what they're talking about with me. We're going Friday night group. And I'm like no. They're calling me queer. And like even at the youth summit. Like when we walked in like the doors. Like the welcoming presentation or whatever. It was like welcome queers. And I was like fuck. Shit. Shoot. Sorry. PG 13. You're allowed to say one. One. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry guys. I just blew it. Anyways. Yeah. You used it Maven. I'm sorry. But like it just feels really awful having like this big organization that's supposed to like speak for me. And like protect me. And care about me. Calling me slurs. And like I know a lot of. I know some of the. People who run out right. Adults. Adults who run out right. Yeah. And like I know they care about me and all. But like. I'm still getting called queer. And I know if I were to talk to them they'd be like oh it's okay. And we won't use the word queer when you're around. But they're still like using it whenever I'm not there. And I don't know. That was. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. And I had a personal experience with word queer. Quite recently that actually fueled the fire to make this episode fun fact. That's literally why we're here. That's literally what I was saying. You both know what I'm talking about. Yeah. The Empower Mont Festival is held by my high school. It's this fun time where everyone goes. They invite clubs to go on table. So I got this water bottle. Yeah. They give you free swag. I took all the free stuff because I'm cheap. But I. My. The. The Empower Mont Festival people who are making it approach the GSA at our school. And it was like hey do you guys want a table here. And like. Have your stuff out. And we were like sure let's do it. So my advisors of the GSA came to me and they were. For some reason put me in charge. I don't know why. They were literally like you're doing this. And I was like great. That doesn't mean I'm responsible. You have a TV show. Anyways. But so I they were like okay. Sure I'll do it. So I brought a bunch of stuff. I brought button makers. I brought this flag and I made some pamphlets. And the pamphlets had a bunch of terms. That I just randomly started to throw in there. And I limited myself to eight terms per like section of the pamphlet. That's what I wanted to make them rainbow. So I put queer on there. I had a bunch of people that night be like hey queer should not be on there. Or it should have some sort of warning. Or essentially that it like shouldn't be on there. And they. These people took the pamphlets that I had made and started like crossing up. Crossing it off and changing them around. And that's. And then. And then that was the end of the night. And I got it led into this whole spiral of discussions about the word queer. Within our little school community. And led to me losing a lot of very close friends. So that's why that's why we're here. Because I wanted to talk about it as. In a more respectful place. Because like name and I talk about it a lot too. And you I actually enjoy talking about it. Because you're like. You know decent. And then we had a sleepover. Yeah. And like. I. I wanted to have an episode who could be like a respectful discussion about it. Which I think is kind of lacking within the community. Respectful constructive discussions. Especially when it comes to things like this. Yeah. So I was like hey. And even I know you're not a complete asshole. And I know you don't like the word queer. Let's chat about it. And then I was like I need a third person J. I love that I'm just the tag along now. Like I need someone else. This person will do. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want me to talk a bit about like. The very extreme. Extremely like opposing the word queer. You want to play that was I forget. Yeah. Yeah. You might have got that. Sort of a segue coming from that story. But people are crazy. So there's some people in the community who think that you should never use the word queer ever. Even to describe yourself. Sometimes which isn't exactly what the people. At the Empowerment Festival thought but they were. Pretty close from what I can tell. I don't know. I don't want to speak on their opinions because I don't know them fully. But. So. A lot of people think like you shouldn't use it to describe yourself. It doesn't count as an identity. And you shouldn't call the community that. And they'll they'll also this is mostly online that I've seen it. But they'll also like harass people who identify only as queer. Which is obviously messed up and. And it'll lead some people to do stuff like. Destroy the pamphlets which. I was. Sort of a part of like I was there for it and the people sort of dragged me along with it. And. Random little off topic didn't one of them they crossed out pan sexuality. Yeah. They crossed out pan. They crossed out Demi. They crossed out a bunch of them they felt shouldn't be on there. It was a time. It was a time. Keep going. These are people who are running around making a bunch of slurs on pins. They had made. They had put the T-slur on pins. They had put the F-slur. They had put the D-slur. I mean like we weren't handing them out. I know. But if you. It makes. Personally it makes no sense to me because I feel like. Again for me. I think. I. Believe that like slurs into it's like different levels of badness. And I feel like queer is kind of. Less bad in my mind than like the D-slur. Or like. The F-slur. Like yeah. Some people obviously you probably disagree with that. No actually no I would agree. Like I'd take more offense to some calling me training and some calling me queer. But I still wouldn't like it. I would take. A lot more offense if someone used the F-slur at me. So that's sort of just like why I got like. Why not. The F-slur is probably the one that I'm the most uncomfortable with. Like. Queer in my mind isn't that bad compared to that. Yeah. So. I agree. To me. Mainly because I like reclaimed queer. Yeah. And I mean even. I mean I know some of my friends who do like have like they feel like they've reclaimed. The F-slur. But I. I don't know sometimes when I hear I legit like cringe. I get. Which I get. I mean that must be how some people feel with the word queer as well. Yeah it is. Especially if you're like in older generations too. Cause I feel like now obviously we hear a little bit less of the word queer. We still hear it. Yeah. But I think we hear it a little bit less. And then older generations they might have more of a problem with it cause it was so prevalent. As like a attacking word. Where like now like the F-slur the D-slur they're kind of the more attack like words now. So if someone who I know isn't joking around with me called me the D-slur I would also freeze up cause I'd be like gotta run. Like bye. So yeah. Going off of what you said about older people who might have actually had queer users slur against them. A lot of organizations. Not organizations but like more I don't know how to describe this. People who are just like more than a bunch of kids or teenagers. Adult. No. Like people who have influence. I mean like I guess mostly adults but like. Influencers. Jesus Christ. Yes. So I've seen. Yes Jesus Christ. Yeah I'm just gonna say. Jesus Christ is the biggest influencer. He's bigger than James Charles. I mean. Yes. Anyways I'm just gonna say. He has an entire religion. I'm just gonna say some people I've seen. People who are like oh you shouldn't use queer around older people cause they might have trauma related to it and you don't want to sugar that and like well that's good and all. My personal problem is with that is like you don't have to have trauma associated with something to be uncomfortable with it. Yes. Like I don't have trauma associated with the F-slur but I still don't want to be called that. I'm still uncomfortable with that. Yeah. I don't know that's just like one excuse I've seen people used to not use queer all the time and like while I agree with that on some level it's also kind of ignoring a bigger problem or ignoring that like some people like might just not like the word. Yeah I mean I've never had any negative experience being called the F-slur or the DSL but if you call me that and you are serious and you're like being asked about it I'll get upset. I mean I've been called the F-slur. But like in a negative sense. Yeah. And it's not fun but at the same time people say that the older people might be triggered but I actually hear a lot of the older like older people of the community use it. I mean it's hard to talk in generalizations. Because everyone has different. Yeah. In my mind I will use the word queer until someone tells me hey I don't like that word for me. Like it may not be the best but I really can't know until someone's like. Yeah but I'm letting you finish your thought. So that's just kind of how I feel about like a lot of words like with queer it's like if I I'll use it and then if you tell me hey I really don't like that word can you not use that for me or can you not call it the queer community then I'll stop. Like because with you like told me hey I don't like this word for myself and I will not call you that but Jay is like chill with it as far as I know. I mean I don't if I mean I don't have a problem with people using it it's just not something I will go out of my way to say. Yeah. Like it's kind of like a different like I said I'm indifferent on that word. Yeah. So I mean like like obviously I can't control what you say and that's more of a compromise than I've gotten from some people in the past but I don't know I just feel like when it comes to slurs it shouldn't be like I'm going to use it until someone say says no it should be I'm going to use it if someone says yes I guess. Yeah. But obviously like I don't know and it's also like a sort of amount of frustration of like watching people struggle to say LGBT in front of me. I know you did a release this episode this isn't directed at you this is in general people will like they know I don't like it and it's like and I know they say it behind my back and they call it the queer community behind my back so it's just like all that much weirder when they're very obviously struggling to say LGBTQ plus in front of me and I don't know it's just like it's the same sort of energy I would feel or like same sort of yeah energy I would get like from or same vibe I would get from people who like obviously were misgendering me behind my back when I first came out as trans and then again not directed at anyone here like they would misgender me when I first came out as trans behind my back and then like whenever I was there they were like very obviously struggling to get my pronouns right I don't know it just feels like that I guess. Say I was with like a group of people who I know are like completely fine with the word queer like they even like it and I called it the queer community then would that would you still find that as an issue or would you still consider that a problem? I mean I don't know it's like I'm sort of for lack of a better word like sort of lenient on it like I wouldn't have so much of a problem with people saying it behind my back if like so many like straight and cis allies didn't call it the queer community if like I didn't get called queer by LGBT people all the time stuff like that I don't know. Like I probably wouldn't care as much if I didn't get called queer all the time. Yeah you would you'll only get ads forced on to you. Yeah. And that's fair I think no one really likes anything when it's being forced on to them. Yeah. And I don't know I guess for me queer has always just been more comforting because it's like a label that I know is never going to change because I went through label after label because obviously I'm a teenager. When you come out at 12 your labels are going to change a little bit. It's like I came out as bisexual. I've switched to pansexual. I came I'm bisexual but I stick with queer because I know well the terms underneath that may change queer is never going to change. Yeah. I know I'm always not going to be 100% straight. Yeah I mean as someone who came out as girls quite young as well I think I came out around 13. I mean my labels have changed. I thought I was trans for that sake. I mean yeah I have had a lot of label changes myself but I've always found that at least the people that I've been around has always been supportive of the whatever I am so. Thank God. So I think we have to wrap this up and I think what I try to do to end it is let's say a sentence or so is our final thought and our final take away. Jay you start. Words have powerful feelings behind them no matter what you use. Just be careful who you use queer around especially if you're an ally just don't go calling at the queer community please I am begging you I've had enough experiences with straight allies being like queer community yee-haw I don't know. Yee-haw. Yee-haw. That's what all straight people say. And then like as soon as someone's like hey I'm not too comfortable with the queer they're like oh okay and they're like sort of pissing you out I don't know. Yeah that was in a sentence but continue. I guess for me language is really tricky words have a lot of power and it's really difficult to have a kind of cohesive understanding about words right. This has been all things LGBTQ plus. Youth Edition. Thank you so much for watching and we'll see you next month or I'll see you next month. Bye.