 A very good evening to all of you, and a very warm welcome to a very special guest today, Mr. M.V. Shreem's Kumar. Mr. Kumar, thank you for joining us on the special edition of Godakshin Exchange for Media series of webinar. And first of all, let me start by congratulating you for your emphatic win to the upper house of parliament. We look forward to you being there in the elder house of parliament and contributing your immense knowledge and acumen to the decision making in this country. So congratulations. And also congratulations from all of us at Exchange for Media. Happy Onam to you. It's a auspicious day when we join. Today is 24th of August. Onam season is upon us. Onam is on as we do this webinar. So happy Onam to you. Wish you the same. Wish all of you the same. Happy Onam. Thank you so much. I don't need to introduce my guest today, but just to set up the perspective and set the ground, let me just tell you what Mr. Kumar has accomplished through his illustrious and long career. As you all know, he's the managing director at Matrubhumi printing and publishing company, which publishes the Matrubhumi Daily and 11 other periodicals including travel monthly, Matrubhumi Yatra, film and lifestyle magazine. Matrubhumi also runs a news channel as well as a youth television channel. The flagship Matrubhumi has 15 editions, nine of which were started under Mr. Kumar's watch. It has a daily total readership of 1.23 crore readers as per IRS Q4. And it is amongst the top 10 dillies as per AIR IRS in India. One of the very important things close to Mr. Kumar's heart is his dedication and commitment to environmental values. And he envisioned Matrubhumi seed the student empowerment for environmental development program a few years back to impart environmental consciousness to the next generation by sensitizing students in nearly 7000 schools. And that's a commendable initiative. Mr. Kumar also happens to be on the board of directors of the News Broadcasting Association, the National News Broadcasters Association. He's on the trust of India board of directors. He's also an executive committee member of the Indian Newspaper Society and also the chairman of the Kerala Regional Committee of Indian Newspaper Society, apart from being the president of the Kerala Television Federation. Thank you, Mr. Kumar for joining us and welcome again for this webinar. As I said at the beginning, Onam season is upon us. I'll start by asking you a very elementary question. How is Onam shaping in Kerala? How is the mood there given what we've all gone through this year? Not great, but it's not bad either. You know, like there's a lot of people going for shopping and because of restriction, most of them are not able to move so freely. But today the government is releasing orders saying that the shops can be opened until nine o'clock in the night during Onam period. So that's a good relief. There's a larger window for people to go and shop. So hopefully, you know, things will pick up. But Kerala has always been a resilient society, you know, like we have faced the floods, two floods, a lot of crisis. But you know, the people of Kerala is a different lot. They always stay together when there's a crisis and I'm pretty confident that it's only a matter of time before we move on. But if I were to ask you specifics, you run a large media business and there's a lot of dependence upon other corporates for media companies to earn money, especially, I mean advertising money. And you have a very good ringside view of all the sectors that are working in the economy, whether it is auto, consumer durables, retail, which part of the economy, which parts of the economy do you think are more impacted and are kind of slower to come back? Almost every sector is impacted except for some digital businesses. If you look at manufacturing, it's affected badly because people are not able to come to work, the service industry, service industry is slightly better because you can work it out. So by and large, it's effective, impacted all the industries, as some of the industries have thrived because of this, some of the online delivery in our system like Zemato and all that. Those digital guys are thriving and I must say in Kerala, if you look at the smaller shops, they were doing good business because earlier people were going to the big supermarkets and there's another side to it. There's a lot of small business which is doing pretty well, especially the local ones, where people depend on that small shop for your requirements. And that's another side to the story. And media is also affected very badly because from April onwards, the ad revenues were practically zero. But fortunately in Kerala, the distribution was intact. In fact, even after the spread of Corona to this level, the number of copies we lost is less compared to other markets because the distribution system is pretty good here. So hopefully, like industry, like all sectors will start reviving, but it can't remain like this forever. It's only a match of time before we bounce back a lot more vigor and a lot more action. And I'm sure this year, economy GDP is supposed to be a negative growth, but I'm sure next year it will go at a much higher rate and it will come back to normal. You have a very good grip on what's happening on ground in Kerala and RBI and many other national and international agencies have released growth forecasts for the Indian economy and most of them project growth to fall this year. Do you think Kerala will beat the national average and will be better off or will be in the same range as what? If I accessed the revenue loss, the GDP loss of Kerala is better on a higher side. I think it comes to fourth of its position in the country. No, Kerala's economy is also affected, but then Kerala has a lot of remittance coming from other. I was going to come to that, yes. So that way, if you ask me, GDP growth will be minus, but then even now people have some disposable income because the job loss has not been that way. For example, Marksupami, for instance, we have not fired a single person, neither we have put a salary cut. Must be amongst the very few rare media companies in this country. I mean, I don't know of too many which have not let go of people or cut salaries of co-workers. We always believe in one philosophy that 90% is mine, it's people. So they are because asset. Money will come and go, but having good people is more important for a long-term goal than any organization. The first thing people do is cut salaries or send them off. We are trying our best not to do it as long as possible we won't do it. That way we have a human face. Some may say it is not the right thing to do, but I feel so. We will declare a token bonus for all of them. What a difficult decision to take. It's a very token bonus compared to what they used to get. And as Marksupami also, when he declared dividend, we ensure that it's a good year. We ensure that every employee also gets a benefit of it, not just a shareholder. So they may get half a month's basic pay as extra pay or one-month pay as extra. So most of the year, they draw 12 and half or 13-month salary, apart from the other benefits. And the government employees are also taken care of pretty well because the government structure in Kerala works more efficiently and very different as compared to other parts of the country. Here, if you look at the social infrastructure of Kerala, the number of schools, number of hospitals, number of other public utilities are very high. So a lot of employment is there. That also, in a way, helps people a lot. But of course, there is unemployment here. There is substantial stress among certain sections of society, especially the farmers. They are facing a very tough time across the country, not just in Kerala for many reasons. I don't want to go into the details of it. I'm also being a farmer, a little bit of a market. So I'll turn to that topic anyway. So that way, Kerala has got a social asset building mechanism which helps people to have a better quality of life. And that is reflected here. And I'm very curious to know about two engines of Kerala's economy, two important engines. One is the tourism sector, which the season is upon us right after Onam, the main tourism season starts, and all the humongous inflow of remittances that come from Gulf. The first part, I'm guessing, is very significantly impacted the tourism sector. And that has a very large role to play in employment generation, economic activity. So how do you see that sector picking up? What's your view on that? And the second part is the remittances. Do you see the remittances economy also kind of taking a hit this year? Yeah, the first part is tourism has taken a big hit because nobody's traveling. I travel very less. I love traveling a lot, but I'm not able to travel. Similarly, no tourists are coming here, but I'm told some local tourism is happening and some of the properties. So there is a slight movement, but it's not enough. It's a completely bad situation on tourism. It helps Kerala's economy a lot, as you know, it's a beautiful place. So much of Greenery and the Western Guards and the Midland and the coast and the backwater. It's a very unique ecosystem, so people love to come here. But then hopefully in the next two, three months, you'll be in a better position for people to travel to Kerala and enjoy the beautiful nature and the landscape of Kerala. On the second part, remittances, there is some problem because most of the countries where people, especially the Gulf, there is a bit of problem there because the economy has not picked up. And in other parts of the world, again, remittances are coming. But it's not an extremely bad situation, but it's not point like before. But one thing is that now people stop coming back because things have better in most of the Gulf region. So the inflow of people who are working in the Gulf to Kerala has slowed down considerably actually. So that means again, there is hope that the people staying back there are working and again, the flow will start improving. That's what we are hoping. I hope I answered your question. Yes, absolutely. And that's good to know that inflow back of people has kind of tapered off because I know last two, three years, there's been a lot of inflow back because of local law changes in places like Dubai, UAE, Oman, and that has kind of also set the economy back. What I meant because of COVID, a lot of people were coming back home. That has kind of tapered right, right, right. You are now also part of the parliament, the upper house of parliament and you will be part of important decision making happening at the national level. What are the few things and you've been a media owner, you've been in politics for a while and you've also dealt very closely with the government machinery. What are the few things that you believe can be the government has taken a lot of steps as we've seen over the last few months to elevate distress in the economy. What are the some more steps that you'd like to see the government taking both at the central and at the state level to kind of re-energize the economy even more than what is happening right now? See, one of the, first of all, as you said, the upper house and the house of elders, though I look that elderly, but I'm not so. And we have been in politics for a generation. I'm pretty sure I haven't read the statistics, but I'm sure you'll be one of the youngest in the upper house, that I'm very sure of. With the dynamism and enthusiasm you bring to the table. We've been in politics for four generations now, from my great-grandfather to my grandfather to my father to me. So it's been part of our family tradition. But if you ask me, I'm not a full-time politician. I've been elected to the assembly twice from Calcutta, so I know the problem faced by common people. Now coming back to the economy, now the moratorium is going to end. The question is whether you want to extend it. They decided not to extend it. Even if you extend it, you have to pay the interest. That is what we want to see these businesses because so next month onwards, repayment starts. And the government, you know, like a lot of schemes have come out with this. But it's basically, it is all borrowing. They're taking the established line of credit with the banks. Anyway, like if the business is not buoyant, then what's upon them borrowing money. So some of the steps taken has not really helped the economy. That's what I feel could have been taken. The restructuring could have been done. And every crisis has an opportunity. So as a parliamentarian, the emphasis I give mostly on environmental issues, of course, the secular fabric of the country, then the problems faced by farmers. We sitting at this level sometimes do not know what is happening at the ground. Since I've I've been representing a constant seat and I have to be people and I've always been with them. So I understand that there are real problems, you know, that people at this level doesn't want to, you know, like, discuss, especially in a webinar like this, they are looking at, you know, what are the, what the industry is doing and all the stuff. But then when people are, life of people is impacted to this level. I think that rings an alarm. And we have to look up to that. So these are the major things I would focus, especially in an environment because, you know, like the new notification in EIA, I've got a wider ramification. It's a future generation we're playing with. So that's one thing we really need to, you know, think about. And sustainable development. It's easy to say sustainable development, it's not easy to achieve. That's right. These are things very easy to say, but to reach there is not very easy. It requires hard work, yes. It requires a lot of, and also like in today's, India's GDP is projected to be less by more than two-digit. That is what the, some of the first quarter studies are saying. That's right. Yeah. Obviously that will have an impact on every sector, as I said earlier. So we need to really see like whether the COVID package announced by the government has started dealing with certain needs. We need to wait and see. I think it's very heartening to see that somebody who's so passionate about the environment going to Rajya Sabha, because I think we need voices like you there. One thing has become increasingly clear over the last two decades, especially that business activity, economic growth and being sensitive and aware of what's happening to the environment, are not mutually exclusive agendas. They need to go hand in hand because, you know, economic growth over the long term is sustainable only if we take care of the environment. Otherwise, one-sided economic growth is, you know, just going to destroy our, you know, planet. It is going to destroy our own home and it is not going to result into prosperity for a large number of people. So I'm very happy that, you know, that's an issue that you are going to take to the parliament. Let me change track a little bit and come to core business that you've been part of and your family has been part of many generations. Your newspaper business, which is your flagship daily matribhumi, tell us aspects. One is obviously advertising. One of the things that I understand is that there's some network issue and I will repeat that. I said, let me just change track and come to the business that you've been part of for many years now that you've led admirably, which is your flagship daily business and COVID obviously has hit all newspapers really hard across the country. Kerala, I would imagine, has been a slightly better off state primarily because circulation revenues constitute a higher proportion of what it does for many other players nationally and in other regions. The flip side of that is that, you know, there is lesser headroom to grow when it comes to circulation revenues. So what's your outlook on the print business? Because as I said at the beginning, technology is bringing in sweeping change into the traditional media businesses and I'm sure and that's one of the reasons you've diversified into television. You have a digital play now, but print constitutes a main pillar of your business. What's your sense of, you know, where print is headed nationally in other regions and especially in Kerala? So Kerala is a very strong print. If you look at the rich of newspaper in Kerala, you know, only recently, you know, the CNS have come near the newspaper. The reading habits are pretty solid here. And I don't see, I've been hearing that newspaper is on its way out for the last two to a lot of decades. I've not seen it probably. See, like in the US and all, you know, like most of the companies are listed and there is a heavy pressure on profits and they always work on a 25, 30, 35% profit and that dips. Then that is bad for them. Here we are quite okay with lower margins because we do need margins, but we're okay with lower margins. And by and large, a lot of newspaper companies are not listed public except a few. So the pressure from the shareholders are not much. So we look at, you know, like, how do we reinvest in the business? At the same time, moving on from there. So Kerala, you know, like looking at the demographics, the number of people who are 35 plus is very high in Kerala. Already started reading newspaper and they'll continue to do so. And regarding the cover price, we always believe, Kerala always believes the Kerala newspaper always believes that there is a price for content. It cannot be given free. Now, if you look at the penetration here, I think around 60% of the households or more are subscribing to newspaper. Look at the average issue readership. You can say almost, you know, everybody is, almost everybody is reading a newspaper. So the headroom for getting more circulation revenue is less because it's not, I won't say it's a saturated market, but it's a very mature market. Unlike the Hindi value, there's still a lot of scope. So we always believe that content as a price because, you know, like there is a lot of expenditure you have to incur for creating content. You have to pay for quality journalism, you should have your infrastructure, you should have your network. All that requires a huge amount of investment. How can that be given free? Everything cannot be subsidized by advertisement. So a newspaper to have a stand on is all also needs another stream of revenue, which is not enough to completely run the newspaper, but still the dependency is slightly less. At the same time, when more ad revenues are coming put, we make more profits. Absolutely. I think that's something that a lot of players, newspapers in other regions can learn from Kerala newspapers. So literacy rates might not be comparable. But I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that content needs to be valued. And if the consumer does not value content, then you know, he or she does not value the product over a period of time. And I think in COVID that has become even more starkly clear when advertising revenues have suddenly fallen. There's no circulation revenue to fall back upon. Whereas if you look at the TV industry, especially the large entertainment channels, national or Hindi entertainment channels, despite fall in advertising revenues, they've all had at least solid subscription revenues to fall back upon primarily because, you know, they made sure that over time, they got consumers to start paying for content. Though even now, what consumers pay for television content in India is much lesser as compared to global counterparts, but there is still some solid money on the table. I think that's a very important message to... If you see Kerala, the consumption has really gone up during the COVID crisis. A lot of people are reading newspaper and the times spent on reading newspapers has increased. Times when on television has increased, television reach has increased. Everywhere digital also. We see 40% spurt in our number of visits per month in our digital platforms and other digital projects as well. So as you're saying, yeah, but in the digital business, it's almost everything is free. Yes. It's free. Now there also, you have to invest your money in people, technology, on your network, like on your bandwidth and stuff like that. But how are you going to get that money? Now, if you look at the digital business in India, I think last year, ad revenue was around 14,000-14,500 crores. Yes. 80% have gone through Facebook and Google. Well, that's right. 39,400 crores to Google and about 2,300-400 crores to Facebook. It's about 11,500 crores. And then the rest of the entire industry got maybe less than 3,000 crores. Yes. So here, digital content has to be priced. That is the next time. If you look at New York Times, you know, the first time they had a subscription, it was over taken. Did you notice that? Yes. Last month, that was a trend because they were solidly building the subscription base over the period of time, creating the quality content, and people are happy paying. Now, everything is content. Anybody can write any content they want, and that can be spread. And there are a lot of people who believe in this kind of false news and stuff like that. So digital business also needs some transition is required in terms of content, not the other side of technology, but when it comes to providing, you know, credible content, digital is a problem. And you know, we are actually, we can surely say that our content is legitimate. 99% is correct. There could be mistakes. Of course, I'm not saying no. And it's a lot of it is original. And it's credible. Well, let me mention a personal experience when the lockdown was at its peak. A lot of news in every city was floating around about what's happening, which areas I've got more cases. And I very vividly recall that the only credible source of information we would rely on was what came from a newspaper. True. Because digital, there is so much content available and these WhatsApp forwards and social media, you really cannot believe anything. So I think the credibility of a newspaper mastered became even more starkly clear to at least somebody like me, you know, who gets so much of digital content. And that's true for a lot of other consumers as well. It's a curated content. You see, like the newspaper, there's a process of creating the content. When it comes in, there are people checking it, you know, like verifying whether it's correct or not. That's why it's credible. I'm not saying you get newspapers, but then there could be political bias with newspapers. In terms of providing these kinds of content, I think a newspaper is the best source of media. That's what I think. And I think the, how are Kerala players taking this up, you know, charging for digital content? Because nationally, I know that some of the national players also tried it in the last few months where you create a digital paywall business standard, as we know, has been doing that for the last three years. How have been those experiments in Kerala? Can you tell us more? Well, it's not started in Kerala. What I'm saying is that we have to educate the users that, you know, they have to pay for the content. And for that, there has to be some kind of unity among the player. I think that has also been discussed at various association levels. And how do we do this? You know, like, how do we get money for our content? It's not easy as of now. We take a while, but it is going to happen. So as an INS board member, would you like INS to kind of also take a stand on this? INS is. I mean, they are discussing with the digital publishing association, I forgot that name. They are working together on many areas on this. And what are the other areas as an INS board member, if I can ask you, what are the other areas where you think INS can kind of work with the government and other industry bodies to kind of, you know, ensure better viability for the newspaper business in these times. Interface with the government more than INS. INS is interacting with the government on various issues. First, it was a newsprint import duty. And from 10% it was reduced to 5%. And we still believe it should be 0% duty. And second was on the cramping of, you know, anti-dumping duty. Yeah. A lot of issues, you know, like INS is taken up with the government and recent order by the Ministry of Outreach and, you know, saying that all publishers are taking, you have to provide them, you have to extend the rate to them. So INS is working on all this. You're standing united on certain things. Most of the newspapers were part of the INS. There's a lot of industry-related issues INS is working on. And of course, I'm not there in the day-to-day affairs. I'm just in the committee. So there is a president and, you know, various committee chairmen and deputy president and vice president. When I talk to you about INS, there's been an interesting thing that IBF has done. If you've seen, you've seen the evolution of IBF over the last 15 years. The industry body got created and it got very strongly involved into advertiser-related issues also. And there are, there have been many instances in the past where IBF as an industry body is very solidly together when it came to, you know, rate pressures from advertisers, from agencies and so on. Do you think INS also at some point of time should stand, where all publishers should stand together and take stances on rates because, you know, the pressure on rates post COVID world will only go up now for newspapers? I know, but it's very difficult because each newspaper has got their own business models, how they work. And it's very difficult to tell them, okay, these are the benchmarks. We don't go below that. But regionally, we try to do it to some extent, but not to the full extent. And INS can do much on that. IBF collection, of course, you know, like INS good, the payment from the agencies and all. And IBF is also good on that. I'm not aware of this nationally that they are taking a stand on rates. Well, it's not now, but in the past, they have in the past, IBF has done that a few times. Yeah, of course, you know, it's not so easy to kind of, this can work. It can be a bit of some work during the election time, saying that let's not give a rate below a certain percentage. But you know, like, more individual businesses, associations to just, you know, like to address the issues faced by the industry. You can't have a stand that everybody gives only this percentage of, you know, discount and all that. And that's not correct also. Yes. Tell me, since we talk about the newspaper business, and we've over the last few years, we've seen television becoming very strong in Kerala. We have a news channel. You also run a youth channel. A few years back, if I recall correctly, Mathubumi also had plans to enter the GC entertainment space. Do you still have those plans in place? Do you plan to do that anytime in the near future? Well, as of now, no, because right now we are, you know, like, as I said, every crisis is an opportunity. We are trying to transform our organization. It's a 90-year-old legacy, what we have. We have aligned the organization to the new ways of business, which we are doing. And right now, I'm taking this time for transforming it to a very smart and effective organization, which is, which can face the challenges in the future, not just the short term, the long term. So there are a lot of such internal things happening, which is very interesting and exciting. And people are also excited about it. Would you like to share some highlights of what you're doing? How are you transforming a company which is almost 100 years old? I know that you've completed 100 years in another three years. I wouldn't want to share much of detail, but as I said, but transformation happens from people, from the mind. That's what you should do. At the end of the day, they have to, they're the ones who are funding your, you know, your operations. So what you're trying to do is you're telling them, look, things are changing. So your way of thinking has to change. And we are not taking too much of time to do that. And people are adopting to the changes. It's good to see, like, basically what happens over the years, you know, department will become very, you know, like, become silos, you know, and they may not, we have so many verticals, and that's a great opportunity for us. How, you know, like the, we are doing things now, how, as a media house, we can help your business and add impact to something which we are looking at. We will ask the client to tell us his challenge and we'll come out with a surprise, you know, solution. So like we are going to proactively do that. We know the market very well. We have, we have some insights. You know, I told you in the beginning, for example, if you look at the consumer variables, you know, like here, what is happening interesting in that people are not window shopping. Only those people who want to shop are going there and they're not hopping from one shop to another to find out where the prices are going. So whenever there is an ad coming in the newspaper, in fact, one of the major retailers told me a few days back that four days back, he had a full-page ad in the newspapers. And he says the business was almost as good as the peak of owner-making, you understand, before owner started. Fantastic. That means the lower number of footfalls, but who are coming, you know, like it's translating to business. So these are the kind of, you know, a lot of insights. And also like the first, the data we are going to work on, the number of users we have, as I said, we have 12 billion visitors on our matribumi portal. We have about 40 million, 4 million followers on Facebook. We are also having a very, you know, like a new division for, not a new division, we are focusing on the social media part of it. If you look at the number of magazines we have, the channels we have, the reach, what we can get in Kerala through matribumi. Something which we can very confidently offer, you know, any industry or any, you know, like sector that we can deliver. So like, as I said, combining these different verticals, that's one of the transformation. Though we, you know, like it was being said over the years that, you know, that 360 degree, but tell me how, where all it has worked to be very honest. So it's easy to look for all these numbers and when it comes to really translating it to business, there's a lot of errors. So what we're trying to do on one side, I mean, transformation is total for the organization. On the same front, this is what we are trying to do. We're combining it, we're telling our different states in that, you know, this is our strength. The combined sense of matribumi is huge. The individual products also have their own strength and standing. But if there's nothing more we can offer to. So we are, you know, like, through us, you're serving the problem that you come out with a surprising issue. I think it's a very important point. That's one area where transformation is happening, but there are a lot of other areas. So as I said, the silos, ensuring that, you know, like, the circulation department or editorial, they all work together. And you know, things like that. A lot of things are happening. Yeah, I think it's a very important point. Sorry, we have a lot of time to do this because you're not able to. But, you know, as you said at the beginning, every crisis is an opportunity, right? I mean, this crisis has given you the time and bandwidth to execute the things that might have got delayed in the normal course of business. So I think it's a God's end opportunity to do this. And I think a very important point you make, and I was having a chat with another news company CEO is also that I think news products have a very different kind of editorial and content gravitas. Nothing to take away from entertainment products. But when an advertiser comes on a news product, a news platform and integrates his or her brand, the value that delivers the engagement value that delivers is very different from what is delivered through eyeballs when you do the same thing through an entertainment product. And I think that is one messaging that is very, very important for advertisers to see where what you are getting through a news driven editorial product, the value and engagement of that is very entirely different as compared to the eyeballs that you attract through entertainment products. So I think that's an important point. Sticking on advertisers, Mr. Kumar, you work with national and retail advertisers and as you said, retail advertisers have invested a lot of faith so have national advertisers. But if there are two, three things that you would want to say to national advertisers, brands and agencies, things that they are missing when they are planning campaigns and how they are looking at the Kerala market, what would those things be? I'm happy that you asked this question because Kerala has to be seen as a different market. If you look at Kerala, for example, fighting the COVID crisis, they're doing well because you look at the social infrastructure here, the social assets. It was a very strong three-tar panchayat system here. These centralized powers are like power. Most of the money is spent by the panchayats and the block panchayats and district panchayats. Then you have the municipalities and corporations. You have schools in every village. You have health centers in every panchayat. There's a primary health center, then you have the community health center, then you have the taluk hospitals, district hospitals and the medical college. It's something which no other state can boast of. And Kerala, if you look at FMCG for instance, how much they are spending this year on print in Kerala? Pretty good. Almost every day I see a front page, ad or a full page coming in the newspaper, almost every day FMCG. That cannot be true in other markets. But in Kerala, the difference is that people read newspaper because they buy it. You're not getting it for a throwaway price or they're not getting it. They are paying 240 rupees per month. What are they paying for to read? Obviously, when they read, you're getting the attention of a reader for your communication. It's not just eyeballs, you have to get serious people who seriously spend time on the newspaper or on television or whichever medium is consumed in Kerala. And you can create a huge impact. And Kerala, if you look at the bike sales in Kerala during the COVID crisis, it's really good. You may not let not be the case in other markets. Yes, it's quite active in Kerala. You see full pages of the auto manufacturers, two wheel manufacturers in Kerala. Look at the retail. Kerala is not a big town in a village and a lot of vacant spaces. It's a continuous township from Karsapur to Vandrum. It's an urban village, so to say. Yes. How do you understand the benefits percolate down to everybody? What are the government schemes? People have been paid here. Why do you think people from Bengal, Bihar, and Nakami are here? There are 2.5 million migrant workers here. Why do they come? Because they get paid more than any of the states. So the buying power of a common man in Kerala is much higher than any other state that has been missed out by the planners. So they look at overall scenario and sometimes they don't look at the specific market, what the market can deliver. You look at cleanliness in Kerala. Everybody has a bar. They keep that place very clean. So they require a lot of these kind of stuff, FMCG products. So they're like the personal hygiene and hygiene. They keep around there, the place of stay. A lot of things, they're like Kerala, so see population wise we may not be that great, but if you spend some money in Kerala, impact what you're going to get is much more than reaching out to a much larger market. Because here, reaching out is easier. You publish an ad in a newspaper like ours, you're reaching a certain amount of your target audience. That's not small in numbers. That's larger numbers. And it has paying capacity. Yeah, if you look at the combined reach of Madhya Bhubi, three out of every four person who touches a brand every day, one way or the other. Around two and a half to 2.75 crore people are engaged with Madhya Bhubi in one way or the other. And as I said, the rural market in Kerala has to be defined in a different way. It's not like I'm not naming any states, not like other states where you have a situation and there's no poverty here. I can say zero poverty. There are no deaths happening because of poverty, maybe one or two here or there. That was in our state cases. So the buying power of common people in Kerala is much higher than any other state in India. They're not looking at that. It's a completely different market and it's a print nominator market. I must say that by taking Madhya Bhubi in one of them, you're reaching out to almost everybody here. That's right. Yes. But in channel, how many channels are you going to take? Do you understand my point? Yeah. You need Malayalam news, you need panel channels, you need the Hindi channels, you need sports, a lot of genres. Yeah, yes, yes. Are you here? Yes, yes. Use the reach, effective reach of like print media and Kerala very effectively, then you'll see your business growing. Yeah, I think it's a very relevant and important point because Kerala is unlike any other market when it comes to print readership because of high literacy rates, high penetration. And as you rightly said, high cover price ensures seriousness of the engagement with the product. Unlike perhaps some other markets where it's so cheap that the reader does not really care what is happening with the paper. But in Kerala, that is a very, very important and relevant point. So tell me if I were to ask an add-on question. You look at the magazines, some of the magazines are priced very high in the sense 50 rupees, 30 rupees, 35 rupees. It's not 80 rupees or 10 rupees. Yes, we have two magazines priced 50 rupees or 60, I don't remember exactly. And people are subscribing to it. There is a compelling content for people to buy. Yes. That's why the engagement of our audience is serious and will be much more full for advertisers. I hope advertisers and industry peers from agencies who are listening to this conversation and who we will reach out through subsequent coverage of this webinar are getting this message. The engagement that Kerala Publications bring to the table is very different from what some other publications might be doing nationally. So the way to look at it is not compare apples versus oranges, compare Kerala Publications very differently. Look at Kerala Publications very differently. Let me move on to some personal questions. Mr. Kumar, you wrote a very moving tribute about your father a couple of months back in impact. Unfortunately, I never had the opportunity to meet him. He left us in May this year. What are the key lessons every son learns from his father? And I'm sure you've learned many, but you also had the of working with him for many years, working under him and learning the tricks of the trade source from him. What are some of the key lessons that you learned from him that you have continued to implement in your business? And also staying together. We never had separate houses. Wow, fantastic. That gladdens my heart in today's age. Unfortunately, I don't have the privilege of living with my parents. They live in Delhi. I'm in Mumbai, but that really... My father was, he's not a typical father. He had a different exposure to life. Being at life, there are different philosophies. He's deeply introduced to the philosophy and that was his main subject. And for me, who helps me to move forward, and he firstly told me that the first thing he did was that my schooling is done in Kalpata. Why not? It's a very backward India. And I studied in a Malayalam meeting school, up to 10 standard. And in spite of having a lot of vehicles at home and a lot of facilities, we become from a very traditional old family. I used to go walking to the school so that I get to know people, stay around me and understand the realities of life. And the conversation we used to have was at a different level. Like when I was becoming a teenager, he would say like, this is the time when you get attracted to women. As opposite sex, there's nothing wrong. You should, there'll be something wrong if you don't. And he would tell me, what are the things I need to be ethical about? You understand? And that is when, I was 13, 14 years old in the 80s. I'm 53 now. So you can imagine 40 years back. Wow. That was told to me. Imagine a father at today's age having a conversation with the son like that. And he always gave me a situation to go. Most punctuated. At the same time, he'll understand, he'll make us understand things from a different perspective, a larger perspective. You have a different kind of, as I said, we did not take away jobs. We did not cut salaries. We got deferred salaries, but not cut salaries. It's all, because the kind of value system which has been brought into the family and for the period of time. And my grandfather was a big landlord and he was part of a socialist movement. He was against the genmys of the landlords of, you fought for the business. But at the same time, that passed on to my father and to me. So for me, he taught me how to face a real-life situation. Not teach me, but give me that real-life situation. Put me in a challenging position so that you know how to move forward. That's a very special mission. Absolutely. I mean, it can't be more special if you've been his understudy for so many years and you've learned everything that you have from him. He learns from me, he learns from my children. He used to have a very open mind. He listens to people. It's not one-sided. There are a lot of things which he said he has learned from me as well. So it's not a typical kind of relationship. Even with my children, the conversation he gets into them, it's quite different. And they are also saddened and they miss their grandfather so much. Yes, of course. And they discuss various subjects, instinct things. And tell us a little bit more about your leadership style. How has your leadership style evolved? You've done a lot of new initiatives for the Mathubhumi group and now as you say, you are transforming the company. But personally, what is your, are you very micromanaging into detailing and hands-on leader or you believe in putting the right people in the right job and giving them a lot of leeway, a lot of authority, a lot of independence and decision-making. I'm both. One that I think I'm focused. Again, I know whatever I'm doing. I'm hands-on. That doesn't mean everything is done by me. I am power people. But I know what you're supposed to be doing or you're like, if you don't know your job, you get fooled, right? Yes, absolutely. The learning is a process, an ever-ending process till you're last with your own learning, something new. So in terms of technology, printing technology or broadcast technology or whatever it is about people, you know, like, you should know about it. You should be able to ask your engineer, why can't you fix it this way? You should be able to tell your sales guy, look, this is what it is. That doesn't mean I'm going to sell. I have never sold a single column centimeter space in my life or a spot in my life. I make people sell. But, but you would know the intricacies. You would know, you would have a fair idea of, you know, what your sales team should be doing. That's true. And I don't like agencies do not call me for rates. They call them. That's right. That's empowerment. It's not, I have a mission with almost everyone, but it works in a different way. So first of all, you understand your business to some extent and you are, you are never fully understood it. Okay. There's new learning every day. And you should be able to share it. Also allow, you know, have a little bit of tolerance for mistakes and tell them important. I think yeah, correct. Yeah. It's a mistake. We'll learn from it. If you don't learn, then there's a problem. Mistakes will happen. That's how you learn. So managing people is very important. I wasn't good at that actually, because dad was doing it and I was bulldozing my way into doing business. Now I understand that I have to go. So that changes a little bit. Not a lot in the way I look at things. And I think we have a great team, right? One thing is that a lot of people have that, you know, the sense of ownership. It's mine. For example, even for readers, we make a mistake. They will ask, how can we make a mistake like this? I can understand some others doing it, but how can you do it? And they're so passionate about what they've called me. You know, like the interaction with our reader, example, if some of the copies not delivered on time, they want the paper before six o'clock in the morning. I get calls from many parts of the state saying that your paper is delayed and so and so. I get calls from my agents. And there is a seamless interaction happening all the time. Because for them it's very important that they get the newspaper on time. Although they see there's a problem. They informing me, look, I'm not getting the newspaper on time. It's not just for me. You're not delivering on time. There's something wrong. During this crisis, you know, there's one of, for example, you take one of our print centers. Now, what they did, there were about 100 employees. All of them went sold and atodized. I did not tell them to do that. It may be a small one, maybe a classified, but he knew that, you know, we needed it. I'm not prompting from my end and I get a, next day, I get a, you know, a link to the e-paper showing me this pages have been filled with the advertisement can was by our own people. So the sense of ownership is there. So you feel, you know, like a lot of bonding. At the same time, you have to ensure that they are capable of, you know, running their own business and like running their own show or whatever area they're working. So we empower them, we teach them, we try to improve them and question them. All that goes on. That's very good to hear. So let me just move on and take some audience questions. We have limited time now. One of the other aspects of the media business is the news business you are in and you're also part of the NBA. And as we all know, news channels have almost all of them or rather all of them are now free to air. How do you like NBA, the news broadcasters association to take up issues related to the news television industry with the government and other stakeholders because, you know, the news TV business has become more fragmented and also tougher from both sides, the advertising pressures, as well as pressures coming from cable operators on carriage fee and other aspects. What is your out of the business and what do you think NBA can do to kind of, you know, know that the subscription revenue for news channels are very limited and very few are paid channels. So NBA is focusing a lot on regulatory issues because, you know, try and other things that a lot of legal issues are there and, you know, like trying to help channels to, there isn't a problem to overcome that, coordinate a lot of things. And as far as, you know, like, as I said, it's your business model is yours. NBA gets guidance, but cannot tell a business house news channel, is this how you do your business? It can't be done, right? It's a free market, yes. A lot of work, you know, like addressing the issues of news broadcasters, a lot of work. It's a day today, if you ask me, I get 10 meals a day. I'm not exaggerating. I can imagine, I mean, NBA is a very kind of passionate body about what's happening in the news ecosystem and anyway, news has become, as we all like to say, it's become a mainline topic for consumers also now, unlike 20 years back, where engagement with news was limited, news has become a drawing room conversation for us from board rooms that has come into our drawing rooms. So it is a very important topic. Let me pick up a question from Kishan Kumar. He says, thank you for a great conversation, Shreem Zanabal. Always great to hear from him. From you, one question around making consumers pay for the right content that I would like to ask. As more OTTs and digital platforms start demanding rightful price for content, along with existing subscription for cable TV and newspapers, do you see a saturation point at some time? If yes, what will get impacted? New age content platforms or establish ones like TV and print subscriptions? So his question is that OTTs and digital platforms will start charging for content. They already are, but that trend will go up even further. So will that money impact television and print companies? OTT is the way forward for delivering content. The traditional distribution system has to change. But then OTT requires a lot of investment as well. Unless you are content rich, you can't be on an OTT platform. That's right. Money spend on news, entertainment, the share of that money is getting more divided among more players. That is true. Earlier, there's probably a newspaper and only newspaper or probably channel, you're getting it free. Now you're paying for Netflix, you're paying for Amazon Prime, you're paying for a lot of other services. The money being spent, the budget, yes, there is a challenge. So what do we have to do as media companies? We have to create the compelling content so that people will buy us. I'm not able to showcase, create an OTT platform and show a hundred series and world-class cinemas. I can't do that. There are a lot of other things I can do. We ensure that we give compelling content so that how much are you paying anyway? Rs. 50 per day of a newspaper and even if it's e-paper, it's about how much a year, 1,000 and a lot. That's not much. You're getting news 365 days, 360 days in a year. Your question is very valid. Yes, the money is divided. I think traditional media also should address. Yes, I think and how the future of consumer money for media companies gets divided between OTT, digital and print will also get determined. There's another question from one of the attendees. The question is what are the lessons or changes print industry can take from the pandemic and implement? Well, a lot of things. Well, I don't think I have the time. For example, work at home was never experienced. We never tried in print. I can tell you in some of our editions, 90% of people are working at home because if there's a containment zone, we don't encourage them to come. A smart way of working. There's an opportunity for you to excel in your work. So deeper looking at the content you're creating, the kind of business you're doing, the ability of people. All this is undergoing change. That's why I said transformation is happening because of the pandemic. That's an opportunity. Did I answer the question or you? That's right. Yes. Yes. There's another question from Jaisalind Joseph. But I think this question has been answered. What is the reading on the current pandemic? By when do you think we'll get out of the situation and bounce back to normal? Or is it going to be a normal time? You answered it. I think that was your first answer. You should talk about the new normal. Yes. New normal is upon us. In some ways. You have to move on. You can't sit at home all the time. And also use the opportunity to transform your business. When I said about Kegla, there is a lot of care being taken. When people go out somewhere, everybody wears a mask. They sanitize. They wash their hands. So with a lot of care, people are moving out. But they are moving out following all the protocol given by the Ministry of Health in Kegla. There are two questions which are similar. Let me combine both of them. This is about the perception that newspapers were unsafe during COVID. So the question is, have you seen a drop in print numbers given people's perception that infection might spread through physical contact? And hence, it might have led to rise in TV viewing or digital consumption. What's your response to that? Yeah. Initially, people started spreading this on social media, saying that a newspaper is handled by so many people. So at the INS level, what we did was, we did a campaign. How newspaper is printed and distributed. If you look at our cases, completely automated. You are touching the bundle when it's packed. Until then, you are not touching the newspaper. That's right. And we keep on disinfecting our premises every week. And our staff take the precaution. And we ensure that nobody comes and works in our organization. And initially, there was a problem, but we could overcome that problem and gain copies. I'm not saying that we are pre-COVID copies. There is a slight drop, drop is marked as a single digit drop. So that perception was there. We could convince people that we showed videos. We created ads ourselves, all of us, and we are using it commonly in our channels. We did a campaign on that. We made people aware of how it is being done. And we ensure that the distribution people have, where's the gloves, we supply them. So a lot of effort has been put in to convince people that it's not going to happen. And we could change the perception very fast. And the drop in numbers is not that I told you, single digit. That's right. Fantastic. One last question before I go. What's your outlook on your television business? What's your vision? Where would you like it to be? What are the things that you are planning with your television business, say, in the next two to five years? That's a very big question, because I don't think I can justify my answer, because a lot of thinking is going on. Even if I have to start at GE, am I starting, going to start as a TVC, which is typical to others, or just competing on the same ground, or am I going to do something else? That's something we are contemplating. Or you want to be a me too, or you want to change the game. That's right. That's what we are looking at. Let's see. I'm thinking about it. And right now, there's not the time to start a new business. So our entire focus is on, as I said, transforming and ensuring that people are safe, and the business is doing well, giving confidence to people, to our advertisers, to our knowledge, to the consumers, everyone is succeeding to a large extent. And I presume you plan to over-index in your digital business, because consumers are also consuming more and more digital content news. Fantastic. Thank you, Mr. Kumar. Thank you for giving us time. And congratulations again for your entry into the Rajya Sabha. We hope you take up issues, as you said, very close to the heart of the common man, especially the farmers in the house of, in the upper house of the country. And we look forward to having an environmentalist at heart kind of person like you. It is very much needed for this country. And happy Onam to all of you back in Kerala from all of us. I hope you are safe and everybody at Mathur Bhumi and in your family is safe. Until we meet physically, goodbye from all of us and happy Onam again. Thank you. Thank you so much for being part of this. Thank you. Thank you so much.